Common writing advice, & sure path to failure | Writing for the market
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- Опубліковано 22 лис 2024
- This is not a video about the top novel writing tips and tricks. We're going deeper into the process, into the mindset, into what it takes to push forward until you succeed.
I think I never read or heard a truer word about the right motivation to write. What you say about the „why“ is gold worth. There is literally nothing more to say about being and staying a writer. Absolutely great!
Thank you very much for the kind words. It seems like once you hear it, it's obvious, but it's just not where we're at as a society
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This is very good advice, and echoes a personal mantra I've had that got me out of the pit of 'what if this book that I am so passionate about is something people will hate.' Someone, possibly only a handful of people, is going to love what you have written. The book you write is for those people. I like the message (that I took away from this video at least) that writing what you are passionate for, what you love, what you want to write isn't just 'write for yourself' but that you are included in that handful of people the book was written for. Thanks for another great video, love the puppy in background.
Yes! That is totally what I mean. The only way to guarantee you write for anyone is to write for yourself, otherwise, you're making too many assumptions and are coming from a false place that might not resonate with anyone.
Rowdy gives people something cute to look at in my visually boring videos, which is great, but usually he's kind of a loudmouth. I could include a montage of myself shouting, "Hush Rowdy!" and him shouting right back at me.
I would advice you, if you write by the seat of you're pants, try to ignore the thought, "I am writing horror, I am writing this, or that." Allow yourself to write you're style, you're iconic theme, without trying to label it as a genre. I once wrote a short story (I haven't put it out yet.) where 2 sets of couples were going for a hiking trip. Conflict fuels passion, one thing led to another and the reasons for why they left turned into a grim dark vision of the future, I still went on to try to write it as a love story. When I allowed my friend to read it, she was crying throughout the midpart of the story.
I may have gotten a bit off-topic. What I mean is that I believe you can write any genre as long as you stay true to your style. I sometimes said it's impossible for me to write a romance. But thinking back to it, I can. It just has a different theme than traditional romance.
oh yeah, it's just that everything I write turns out to be horror. It lives in me. My most horrific stories are always the ones that don't involve any genre tropes. When I write with heavy genre tropes, it tends to not be horror, as I find it boring to be too traditional.
I do think it's a very good idea to do as you said and ignore the thought of genre at least sometimes and just see what comes out. Probably the best way to learn about yourself as a writer.
As a relatively new writer, I can't speak to all aspects of the craft, but I firmly believe in writing about subjects I'm passionate about. My main goal is to bring my own vision to life for readers, rather than trying to cater to their preconceived ideas.
The one concession I make to reader expectations is acknowledging the common tropes in my chosen genre. However, I strive to take these often exaggerated or simplistic tropes and ground them in reality, fleshing them out with complex, three-dimensional characters and realistic settings. This approach allows me to respect genre conventions while still maintaining the integrity of my personal vision.
Great comment. Playing with the tropes is so much fun. Especially because it leaves the reader feeling safe, assuming they know what ground they're on, and then suddenly their expectations get subverted.
I've considered writing to the masses, only once I am retired and burnt out on what I truly love 😅
hopefully by then you'll have attracted your own masses who are willing to follow you on that journey!
Another great video. I heavily resonate with the part about not writing for a theoretical audience bc every time I’ve tried to people please, the work has suffered and you end up losing the audience anyways!! (Like you mentioned about people sending inauthenticity.) And anytime I’ve decided to resist caving to those little demands, I’ve ended up getting comments like “omg I thought xyz was going to happen but I liked what you did so much more!” And that’s always good for my confidence bc I think to myself “wow I was actually going to let some stranger affect the course of my story (bc I wanted to live up to their expectations meanwhile they were only capable of setting expectations limited by their own writing capability/imagination) instead of trusting MYSELF-the actual crafter of this work???” Like hello!? Lmao. (Side note: I’ve mentioned before I write fan fiction and usually the way you post that is chapter by chapter, instead of writing a whole story and posting it at once. And this process allows so many people to comment on the work in progress and give their predictions and their hopes etc as the story continues in real time, so as you’re editing the next parts you can get immediate feedback on posted parts which has the potential to derail your writing since it’s too many cooks in the kitchen, and you can get super in your head about it. But anyways.) Thank you for sharing!!
Oh wow, that's so interesting, publishing chapter by chapter and getting comments all along the way. It seems like if you really learn to trust yourself and hear your own voice, it would be a great way to spur ideas, which can be an issue for me. Of course, if you can't realize what's your voice and what is other people's opinions disguised as your voice, you could get in trouble. But it sounds like you've got it figured out!
When I start marketing my series, I am going to have some real issues along the lines of what you described/
I write “paranormal suspense,” which is categorized as a subgenre under horror.
But I don't think my stories will satisfy the devout horror reader.
An author on the Creative Pen podcast had an interesting definition of horror: normal people facing a challenge and barely surviving if at all.
What he called dark fantasy may have the trappings of horror, but still has a hero who can solve the problem and maybe even help other people survive.
My overall story structure is much more the latter, even though I have ghosts and possessions and much in my series, Invoking Echoes.
But there is also no question that this is the story I want to write despite whatever difficulties in marketing I might face. It started up in my mind in the 90s, inspired by Twin Peaks; the bones of the story and the"world-building” started in the 2000s, and now in the last five years or so, I've written four novels in the series and won't stop till it's done.
Thankfully I enjoy the process and I’m really happy with each book so far.
That satisfaction is my “Why.”
That definition is stated differently but might be the one I use for horror, which is that a person can't win against the threat without the transcendent power gained from a huge sacrifice (maybe death). If they can fight and win toe-to-toe, it's likely not horror.
I do think there is a good market for paranormal suspense or dark fantasy or urban fanasy (I don't know all the intricacies separating those), so I bet you'll be in a good place.
Four novels into writing exactly what you want, I don't think you needed this video, but hopefully it was entertaining!
@@JAlanRyker - It was reaffirming, which is always good thanks.
Your comment resonates with me so I subscribed, even though you don't have any videos. 😅 I'm hoping you'll get there sometime❤❤❤
@@TimeslipNovel - Thanks very much! I will have videos when I start marketing early next year, after I publish my third novel.
@@PaulRWorthington I'll be watching ♥️
Again you vocalize what I feel about my own writing. I don't follow Tarantino super closely, but what's always stuck with me is he makes the movie he wants to watch. And so it goes for me, that I'm writing what I want to write. I don't think about genre or how it's going to be received--the test is whether or not I would want to read it, and am I going to enjoy writing it for three months. If not, it would be such a miserable task for the same crummy rewards
wow, that's so crazy that you mention that. I watched a video about him on the same day I posted this and I wished I'd watched it before, because I would have mentioned it. They were interviewing him, and he was young, so maybe after Reservoir Dogs and True Romance, but nothing more than that, and he said when he hands over his script, "This is the script. I'm not going to rewrite it. If you don't want it, I'll find someone who does." And he said he thinks that bravado actually helped him because it made people curious.
I enjoy writing - once I get started on it. It's the getting started that's hard.
You're definitely not alone in that. It seems like most of the things that are good for us, even if we enjoy them, have that initial drag. Only the very cheapest of dopamine fixes don't
Congrats for almost beating King 😁
Thats quite something!
I also began reading King as a kid. My very first adult book my mom gave was Nightshift from King and I loved it and his style from the get go..
And I always THOUGHT that I would write pure horror when I would become an author. Boy, was I wrong!
I didnt pick the genre - the genre picked ME. 😂
The tiny idea I woke up with could be called a story in the realms of urban fantasy with horror elements. I never read a single urban fantasy book! 🤣 Yet I enjoy writing it.
Its weird. I enjoy the writing of urban (or maybe dark?) fantasy A LOT.
I also wrote a novella. Again, in a genre I neither read, nor that I ever thought I would write in: Its a homorous triangle-ish love story.
Its like my writing doesnt give a damn about my reading preferences. It wants to write, thats all that I know and do. 🤣
I also started reading King with my mom's copy of Night Shift. Great story collection.
And I'm writing urban/dark fantasy now -- paranormal suspense.
@@PaulRWorthington No way! 😂 Funny coincidence!
I love it! I think this is the way writers find an audience
Also, just wanted to say I have been searching for this channel for the last month and I couldn't find it. I was worried you took it down... Also, on this specific topic - what should I write - to market or to passion - Well, basically, I've been trying to pursue lucid dreaming so that I could ask my subconcious what I should do... Should I write cozy, romance, or passion projects because I'm worried I won't be able to make a living writing passion projects, but writing things I don't care about is like pulling teeth... And I still haven't been successful anyway... So, I have been very unsuccesssful with lucid dreaming because I am barely able to remember my dreams... I've been keeping a dream journal for the last 3 months and I mostly get fragments... Anyway, I had a dream about you two days ago - I barely remember it but you were asking for a doctors note?? Anyway, I just thought it was synchronistic that this video was on my homepage because this is the exact thing I'm struggling with right now - like, in a huge way...
So I just told a person in a comment below that I'll say to people, "Don't tell me about your dream unless I'm in it." What kind of coincidence is that?! On top of your own coincidence about it being what you've been struggling with.
My guess is I got pretty buried by the algorithm when I took months putting out the self-publishing guide that very few people watched. UA-cam expected a certain number of people to click on my thumbnails, so they showed a certain number of people, and that was on an upward trajectory. Then I start making these videos that people don't want to watch (and understandably so, they're tools, not fun), and so youtube shows the thumbnail but people read the description and then don't click. Then youtube decides that I'm making videos people don't want to watch so they stop showing them to people.
But I'm back on the upswing with that horrible self-publishing guide behind me!
I hope this video helped. In my mind, besides all of what I said in the video, I think considering an audience is what you realistically struggle with once you have a good sized one. Like, if a very successful fantasy writer decides they want to write mimetic literary under the same name but wonder if they can take their audience with them, they have a hard choice to make. I can see why they might keep writing the same sort of novel to, as you said, "pay the bills".
Until then, though, I think the best way to get that audience is to write whatever makes writing easiest and makes you happiest.
Thanks for watching, for the comment, and for keeping a lockout for me!!!
@@JAlanRyker That is another coincidence! ha! Thank you for your videos. They are really helpful to me!!
This is awesome advice and i want to share it with my creative writing students tomorrow!!!
wow, that's so cool! Thanks for the kind words
When I first heard the advice to 'write for the audience, not yourself' my first reaction was what does that mean, what ways are other people different than me that I should be taking into account?
I later came to suspect it's advice for those much newer writers who will basically write themselves into an episode of their favorite tv show. I think it's advice along the same lines as "noone is interested in hearing about the wierd dream you had." It might be advice more about making sure your story has context, or making sure there's actually some story in there at all. You'd think a wierd dream should make an interesting scene, but you have to add context and weave it in as part of the story in order for other people to care about what's happening
I think that's a very good point. The weird dream thing is a great illustration because even just in conversation, boy do some people not realize that their dreams are WAY more interesting to them than to the rest of us. Except for my wife, when people start telling me a dream, I'll literally say, "Do I appear in this dream? Because otherwise I don't want to hear it."
I think another thing might be that a writer can write for themselves without writing for themselves *as a reader*. You still have to imagine yourself picking it up and reading it with no prior knowledge, even when writing for yourself. Like you said: context."
Great points ❤
and then after a long time in the adult floor some of us go back down to the kid floor
yeah, I think a lot of people get a happy place feeling.
For me, Stephen King's It was almost the last book about children I ever read. I hated being a kid. I hated being trapped in a school with bullies like a mouse in a house full of cats, scurrying about, trying to not be seen, and so I can't handle anything to do with school and students, which really limits the anime I have to watch
in addition to willpower being very difficult to tap and very limited, the human mind as a muscle only has so much work that it can do per day - there are a lot of articles on this so it's really important to plan on how you're going to use your brain power each day because it is limited for several reasons and it's more limited than maybe a lot of people realize
When I became a programmer, I was like, I have to strain my brain as hard as I can for 8 hours a day, and often longer? It absolutely wiped me out. I don't try to write all day. I have a few solid hours and that's good.
Nice, good advice!
And damn, a vid with an hook at the end, my man, I never seen it done like that, it could feel it working on me, and usualy never does 🤘🤘
Thanks so much for the kind words!
Yeah, but the bad part is this isn't an issue which I feel I have good advice for, it's just a problem I recognize! so I'm really going to have to think on this 😂
@@JAlanRyker I really don't think it's a bad thing, at all.
It worked on me, using chapter ending hooks on a video is actually new and fresh way of doing things
But of course, you do your thing as you see fit :)
I can't believe Stephen King is so petty!!
I can.
Your dog ONCE AGAIN never stayed till the end of your video. 😂😂
You know, he's usually actually either sleeping by the door using my shoes as his pillow for hours, or he's being a total terror (he's still a puppy, but I don't think that excuses all of it). I'm pretty sure it's that I'm speaking loudly and he can't figure out why or to whom that makes him wander around the whole time I record.
I love whodunnits and don't really have an interest in writing anything else. I made the rather depressing discovery recently that only one book on the top 100 bestsellers at the time was a whodunnit. Plenty of thrillers, but they just aren't my cup of tea. I want the puzzle, the shifty suspects, the clever clues and tricky red herrings. I want a smart detective who pulls apart the lies and says 'He did it. This is how he did it and why.' I want to get to the end of a book and go 'Wow, I did not see that coming, but it makes perfect sense, now.' And I want to write that book and give the reader the same experience. Nothing else will do.
That's something I can't imagine being able to do. I'm expected to have a bit of a twist to the end of my pieces, but I think they're usually pretty phoned in.
Do you love that aspect so much that you could couch it in something neo-hardboiled and be satisfied if you nail the whodunnit part of a gritty cyberpunk mystery? Maybe genre mix?
I kind of hate when people think they have solved a problem in a second that has been tearing at me for months, years, but that just popped into my head as maybe being a solution. Sorry if it's obnoxious!
@@JAlanRyker I don't mind at all. I didn't include it as it would've made my comment even longer, but I'm open to blending genres. I just don't think I would be happy writing something too dark and gritty. My style tends towards grey and humourous.
However, I have been considering blending fantasy and mystery. There were quite a few fantasy books in the top 100. Mystery may be my true love, but fantasy was my first love.
I'm just trying to decide whether to go full fantasy world or a contemporary setting with fantasy elements. I think a contemporary setting would suit a mystery story more, but I'm Australian and I just don't think there is a market for a fantasy set in Australia. And I find the idea of setting it in a foreign country and the research involved to portray it accurately overwhelming, but so does coming up with a completely new world. I'm going to research it a bit and see which option is more appealing to readers.
@@JAlanRyker Also, I got some really simple but good advice about twists which has helped me a lot. A twist is just something the reader believes to be true that turns out to be false. So, when I'm a decent way into planning a story I make a list of all the things the reader is likely to assume is true and then brainstorm ways to make it false. It could be as simple as assuming all the characters are alive, but one of them is actually dead like in The Sixth Sense. It's a surprisingly easy but effective way to come up with twists. I hope that helps.
@@katrina484 I'm taking note of this, thanks! I have never thought about it like this, but it makes so much sense.
Now I need to revisit the endings of all my unpublished novels...
@@katrina484 A mix of fantasy and mystery sounds like it could be great. I could definitely see that working. This isn't fantasy, but medieval, but have you read the Cadfael novels? They're wonderful mysteries. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadfael
I'm a bad person to ask about the setting, because I would love to read a novel set in Australia. I like to learn something from a novel. I can't stand it when protagonists are writers; teach me about a job I don't know about! But I don't know the averages on how people feel about that. Even so, while we like to stay ignorant about a lot of things, American's love Australia and Australians, so it could work.
Would you consider cozy mysteries? I think those sell well. I don't know much about them, though.
bitter rivalry 🤣🤣🤣 - so good
Not to trigger your K-word phobia, but I can relate to reading Stephen King way too young. Mine was a collab with Peter Straub called The Talisman.
Yeah, I enjoyed that one a lot, too!
for the love of God write that paranormal romance😂
the reality of writing being the correct choice for any one individual is ultra bleak - The writer's funnel is ultra hardcore - and to repeatedly traverse The writer's funnel requires for sitting at your desk to be aligned with the Stars