Been back on my bike for about a year after a lay off of about 8 years. climbed onto my 23s at 100psi as I’d always done. After watching this I dropped my 28s to 70 and 75. Did 64km yesterday and I’m a convert. So is my backside! My average speed stayed the same too.
25mm tyres (widest that will fit under my mudguards) at about 90psi, but i ride daily and don’t pump up every day (as it would be a hassle) by the time I add more air it’s usually about 80. Also rather than having a super stiff carbon frame, my steel frame absorbs much of the road bumps. Happy with the same setup I’ve had for 12 years now
Same, have no issues with good supple Conti 25mm tyres with TPU run at 90-100 PSI on my road bike, just need to watch out and avoid potholes. I have tried 30mm tyres on the road bike but prefer 25mm. Why ride a heavier tyre than needed on a road bike? Ride wider tyres on my commute and audax bikes which see rougher roads/tracks.
@@draugmithrin - "Why ride a heavier tyre than needed on a road bike?" Because a bigger tyre is way more comfortable and usually faster too, so not in fact heavier than needed. More so the longer you ride, being rattled tires you out and slows you down. I used to ride old skool 23mm high pressure tyres. No more. Now very happy with 33mm tyres at far lower pressures.
I use 25mm tires (Conti GP5000) on my steel road bike (Ritchey Road Logic). I tried 28mm and lower pressues, using the Silca pressure calculator, and the resulting ride quality was dull and felt slightly slower (Strava agreed). I went back to 25mm on the Ritchey. I then put the 28mm tires on my Cannondale CAAD10, which improved the ride quality but didn't give me any measurable additional speed. So my somewhat unscientific conclusion is that frame material may be a significant factor in optimizing tire width.
Rim brake user here. my bike won't fit 28 mm, 25-26 is max. Previously I pumped my tires indiscriminantly to whatever felt "right", 6-7 bar. On the rougher asphalt it was terrible as my bike is super rigid. I noticed that only after the air escaped a little, bike started to feel great. I do have a 21 mm internal width rims and with either Pirelli PZero (road) or Conti gp5000s I try to run approximately the tire pressure calculated on Silca website for worn pavement. I don't like the mess with sealant so TPU inner tubes and almost no punctures.
Loved this. My bike came fitted with 25mm so I stayed with them. Now I’m moving to 28mm and the calculator says I can run these roughly 12psi lower and looking forward to the new feel
Bicycle rolling resistence did an extensive test with all sizes of GP5000's and found that when preasures were adjusted for equal case tension (ride comfort) there was no differene in RR... so it could be argued that wider tires are slower due to extra weight and aero drag.
A test on a smooth test drum is an indicator for the efficiency of the tire itself, but on the road micro vibration due to the never perfect surface are another factor. A wider tire can eliminate some of the vibration, which consumes energy too.
There is one important thing about tires that no one talks about. We are recommending the same width tires to a 50kg and 150kg rider and it doesn't make sense. If you have to pump your tires to a high pressure, say over 90psi on tubes and 75 on tubeless just to avoid bottoming out on the rim, you need a wider tire. Most women and smaller men will be completely comfortable on 25s, while if you're a bit heavier you might require 32s at least.
That’s why there are serious tire pressure calculators that take into account the total weight system of the riders + bike + water bottles + shoes & clothing and EVERYTHING. Not just you naked + your bike with nothing on it
Silica's calculator doesn't make sence either. Gives me total system weight 250lbs a tire pressure recommendation of 85psi on a 28mm. Subtract 50lbs its only 5lbs less PSI. That doesn't add up.
I'm 90kg but don't see myself ever using a anything narrower than 28 ever again unless I'm on a velodrome. Even on butter smooth roads, I want 30-35s for traction. I was 140kg and used 25s because that's all that fit on nearly every road bike 20yrs ago. But if I had my present stable when I was 140kg, I think I'd still be riding similar tire sizes with more pressure. The nice thing about hookless is that I really don't care about bottoming out my rim. Got some pretty bad potholes here in Utah as some of the ski resorts I ride by get 500 inches of snow a year(900 last year) and I really don't mind hitting them with my wheels now. Before, I've been careful and still damaged rims
I was running 28mm a few years ago but, after a huge crash, lost confidence while descending. To gain that confidence back I went wider, then wider, then wider still! I've just ordered some GP5000 AS 35mm wide and am really looking forward to even more grip, comfort, and less wrist and shoulder fatigue on long rides 👍
Because like most things, there is an optimum range. Watch their video where they tested 28, 30, and 32mm tires in similar conditions. Small data set, but it suggested 30mm is best for speed.
A lot depends on the quality of road surfaces you ride on. I quite happily ride in Switzerland with 23mm tyres at 100 psi on my old rim braked road bike, it's perfectly comfortable. However, for my upcoming trip to Belgium, I'll be taking my gravel bike with wide tyres specifically for the cobbles
im at 23- 25mm a little low at 80psi in los angeles, at 110 psi a curb slam sometimes pops or springs a leak, im 165 pounds...except cobblestone, narrow and higher psi is faster..FACT
I used to ride on 23 mm on my 2008 Synapse (a great absorbing frame), but coming from mtb I knew the benefits from wide tires so I use now 23 in winter for short rides, 25 in spring/autumn for medium distance and 28 in summer for 100 to 250 km rides (upt to 4000+ climb) with some light gravel too. Weighting 64 kgs I can pump 60 psi on 28 mm with better comfort and better control going down.
Often hard to destinguish, how much it's the tire and how much is down to training effects, route planning, wind (sheltered vs open plains)... but smooth is fast!
@@gcntech I've been riding 30c on the road bike for a few years now, so most improvements are due to my fitness and experience, however when I first switched from 25c to 30c everything felt infinitely more comfortable and faster for sure
When my wheels and tyres wore out on my winter bike (rim brake) I went from 17mm internal rim width with 23mm tyres (inner tubes - 95psi) to 21mm internal rim width and 25mm tyres (tubeless (70-75psi) - the biggest I can fit in my frame with mudguards - and the difference was unbelievable. Both speed and comfort were hugely improved.
I can vouch for it. I used to have a hybrid bike with oem 700cx35 wheels. During the pandemic i had gotten the tyres changed to 28 mm. Due to parts shortage. The ride went from comfortable to atrocious. To an extent that i stopped riding the bike itself. Recently i dusted the bike and got the tyres changed again to oem 700cx35. The change in ride quality was immediate. Made me fall in love with cycling again.
I am running 28mm continental GP5000S on a 40 year old racing bike... Work just fine. I used to run 18mm back in the day on this frame. You probably don't need a new bike
Still rocking 23mm Continental Gatorskin tires on my 2004 Trek Equinox 9 tri bike at 110 psi. Seemed to work great at my Olympic distance triathlon last week
I switched from 25mm gatorskins at 80 psi to tubeless 28mm Vittoria Corsa Pros at 65 psi and the difference is night and day. I live in an area with relatively mild winters too, so they stay on year-round 😊 Also, I have an approximately 10 minute difference in commute time across 10 miles when I go from my steel gravel bike with 40mm semislicks to my carbon race bike with the Corsa pros.
Bought a cross bike in 2017 and went from 25mm tyres on the I old carbon race bike to 28mm, jumped to tubeless and 32 then 35mm. Now ride a gravel bike on 35s for the road, pressure in the 50s when aiming for comfort and 60, maybe 65 for fast rides. Having also been a chain waxer since 2018, I can say I'm about 5 years ahead of gcn so if anyone wants the inside scoop on 2029 trends, drop me a line 😂
I have a titanium road bike, so the ride is already super nice. But the 30mm wide tires were due for a change. I decided to move to 34mm and WOW, ride quality is now through the roof. Did a 32mi ride yesterday in zone 2 and it was sublime. Completely transformed the ride for a nomimal amount of money.
@@ruiteixeira6299 weird, because it's still as fast as the 30s, if not faster. And real world testing shows that 30-34s are faster than 28s so, sure. I guess I'll take a faster "tractor".
Totally agree. Went from the summer wheels of 21mm internal rims and 28mm tyres back to the 17mm rims and 25mm tyres (to use with fitted mudguards - both GP5000 tyres) and the same rides/roads felt pretty awful. All that broken, scabby tarmac. Trying 30mm on the summer wheels next. Also the SRAM tyre pressure calculator is good to use.
I did similar by going from summer 28mm road tyres to winter 33mm CX tyres and realizing the 33mm tyres wee no slower. So left them on all year. Way more comfy. Particularly when I inevitably see some interesting off road tracks.
I don't know if I am unusual but I ride my winter bike with 23mm tyres (cannot go bigger because of the mud guards and prefer a dry bum rather than running 25mm) with 100 psi and don't find the ride uncomfortable at all. My summer bike runs 25mm at 110 plus it's an aero carbon bike and it feels smooth, the British roads are terrible but it's never uncomfortable at all.
@@yogatriathlete not really if it's uncomfortable it's uncomfortable is it not? The bikes I have do not feel any less uncomfortable from my hybrid I used to have when I first got into cycling and that had I think 38s
@@tomrachellesfirstdance7843 I completely understand. I went through the same thing when I started lowering my pressures, but eventually I got used to it (the squishy feeling)
As a bigger rider on an ebike (total 325lb, 147kg), I have found the Silca recommendations are only good for straight roads, and don't take into consideration the inertia of my system weight when hitting holes or bumps resulting in snakebite punctures. I also don't like the squishy feel of the tires deforming when going around corners. I've gone back to my formula of 80% of the maximum pressure for the rear and 75% for the front. Tires are 27.5' x 50mm on a 25mm internal width rim rated for 75lbs (so 60lb rear and 56lb front.)
This is what I have been saying for decades about wheelchairs. When I pushed my sister then, later, my wife's elderly friend, I pumped the tyres close to the max. It made it much easier for me to push and control the chair. At the cost of sligtly firmer ride, it made the sitter feel far more confident as the squishy feeling going round corners and the jarring up and down kerbs was gone. Invariably, I'd find nobody else ever thought of tyre pressures so, next time, I'd find the tyres soft and the sitter had hated being pushed, even by husband.
You've convinced me about this long ago. But there is a caveat to the story. I have a relatively cheap gravel bike, Kross Esker 2.0 MS from 2023. It came with narrow alu rims that are not tubeless-ready (19 mm wide according to specs, though I don't know if this is outer or inner width). I generally knew that tubeless tyres could be ridden with tubes, hence I came up with the idea - I'll buy TPU tubes and good quality tyres to upgrade my machine. Good idea, right? Well...not really. I bought Challenge Getawat 40 mm foldable tyres. Trying to put them on my rims was a nightmare. Struggling long enough I probably would be able to put them on, but them alone - there was no way, to try to put the tubes in there. I can be an example that wanting too much from a budget bike (or rather budget wheels) does not pay off. If some of you, lads, want to upgrade the tyres, make sure you have also proper wheels for the job (or go for lesser quality but easier-to-install tyres).
Went from the default tyres on my bike to a pair of 42mm grippy trekking ones with gravel TPU inner tubes at 40psi each Never felt more comfy before on her As a delivery courier, Comfort + Puncture Protection for me anytime, any day
I’ve changed from 23mm (110psi)-> 25mm (75-90psi). The improvement in ride quality is substantial. I can ride further and faster for sure. With 23s, I’d have to ride up off the saddle at pavement breaks every 20-50’, with 25s at lower pressure I can stay in the saddle and keep pedaling. I’ve lost maybe 2-3mph on my big descents, but that’s fine; 45mph vs 43mph descents don’t make a huge difference in my times.
There will always be lovers and haters. But now I’m running on tubeless 28mm Conti GP 500’s, fixed to a Carbon Aero 50 wheel set, 60psi rear, 55psi front and now I’m saying ‘there were hills here last time I rode this route!!’ In plain speak, I’m flying!!
Seems like there are other factors to consider. Tarmac quality. Aerodynamics - if you have a wide tire on a narrow rim you separate airflow. Pinch flat risk - if you are not on tubeless.
When you try running lower pressures for the first time, your bike will handle differently and there will be times when you will think you've got a slow puncture but persevere and you get used to the new set up. You also have to get use to seeing your tyres bulging out slightly more. You do have to be more vigilante in avoiding pot holes, especially if you've got aluminium rims. One benefit of lower pressures that no one mentions is that after getting a puncture, if you're using a mini pump to reinflate your tyre, it doesn't take as long to pump it up as it would've done. Including water bottle, tool bottle, lights and Garmin , my bike weighs in at 9.4 kg, I weigh 68 kg plus my kit and I run my 28mm Pirelli P Zero Race TLR's at 56F 58R psi.
I contacted my bike manufacturer’s customer support and asked what’s the widest I can use. For mine it was 30 mm. I used my tire manufacturer’s website for suggested tire pressure.
Rode a pair of 28c tyres until they were worn out and replaced them with a pair of 25c I had left over from another bike from a while back. Was expecting them to be less comfortable but I was wrong. They feel more comfortable and faster even if at a slightly higher pressure. I'm guessing a 21mm inner rim width conforms better with a smaller tyre and double the TPI count has more influence on comfort/feel than just the size of the tyre. I'm actually pretty light at 65kg so there's also that.
I'm sold. Been riding 28mm for years (largest my bike will fit). But, recently added a gravel bike with 45mm wide tyres. Comfort, and a feeling of being more securely planted on the road (and gravel) is immediately improved. Will likely get a set of 32mm road tyres for the gravel bike as well, for when there's more tarmac than gravel.
In my experience, wider rims and tires do get more comfortable and surprisingly the comfort alone helps with sitting in the aero position longer, let alone RR of the tires. Extra confidence at high speed turns is another benefit!
Couldn't agree more with everything stated in this fim! I used to think tyres were tyres end of story! How wrong I was. Now I'm settled on 32mm at 60lb (I'm a big guy!) and they're perfect.
I'm really enjoying the new direction GCN appears to be going, more useful info for more of us. Thank you 👍 btw. 120kg on 28mm tubeless, 23mm internal, never needs more than 60psi in my experience 👍
I switched from an old style narrow box rim with 23mm tires at 130psi to a modern aluminum rim with 28mm higher end tires at 84psi It was amazing how much more comfortable and how much faster my bike was instantly. I’d like to try and fit 30s but with rim brakes the clearance isn’t quite there. As a heavier rider (100kg) the extra width and lower pressure made a huge difference on my aluminum frame that I was ready to move on from purely based on comfort.
26mm Tires, 200+lbs rider, very smooth flat roads where I live, 20-22mph avg, I swear 120psi is optimal.... I've tried lower psi, and I felt slower and *was* slower.
4:20 Paradoxically, contrary to your B-roll, old steel frames will take up to 33mm tyres usually with no problems at all. It's the stupid aluminium & carbon bikes after that (
Not really. Or rather, it depends. Steel frames from the 60s and 70s will often accept wider tyres, as cheaper and more robust clincher tyres, were common for training and the delicate and expensive tubulars were saved for race days. As clinchers back then could not cope with high pressures, they needed to be wider, so frames usually accomodated for that. But in the 80s and 90s things changed and frames became much more restrictive. Brakes can also limit tyre clearance. Also, tyre and rim combinations greatly affect real tyre size. For example, 25mm Conti GP Classc in DP18 rims is about the maximum that I can fit into my mid-1990s Sancineto. About 2mm of clearance is as tight as I am willing to risk. On the same rim however, a 25mm Challenge Strada has plenty of room. This tyre has noticeably less volume, looks about the same as the Conti in 23mm. For practical purposes (tyre pressure, comfort) the real tyre dimensions count, not the number printed on the sidewall. (The Challenge still feels more supple, even at the smaller real size and necessarily higher pressure, but that is because of it's construction and ultra-high tpi casing.)
I don't want to burst your steel-snobbish bubble but for older bikes its for 99,9% dependent on the brake calliper whether or not a wider tyre will fit.
I've got a 2011 aluminium bike with rim brakes and I can fit a 30 mm tyre in with room to spare. The caliper is the limiting factor not the frame in my case.
Old rim bike Trek and max width is 25mm - however lower pressures are great for comfort but with the state of the roads has resulted in more pinch punctures. Gone slightly higher now to avoid this at the cost of some comfort
My frame takes 25mm with some rubbing, so I'm sat on 23mm as that's as wide as is probably safe. So actually, no. I can't have any wider or softer tyres.
I may stay with the 23mm tubs I've ridden most of my life, but I have dropped to 90psi (6.2bar) in front and 100psi (6.9bar) in the back. (My summer weight is around 63Kg) So I've dropped about ten psi on both. On the other hand my bikes are custom steel from the early 2000s, and 23s what we rode. I'm not sure I have clearance for anything bigger than a 25mm.
When I bought my gravel bike I had 25mm tyres. I have gradually increased the width and now maxed out (with my wheels) at 35mm tyres. Ride quality has increased significantly
Sorry GCN I call BS. 58 year old road rider here, former pro, began in the era of steel frames and leather hairnets and I still compete in my age group on various bikes, namely a Dogma F8w and a Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Anniversary version, etc. I will not ride wider than 25mm, simply unnecessary, and this is on top-flight carbon frames. What needs to be mentioned here also is that your vid assumes everyone’s on carbon frames, whilst they’re not. I recently got Aldo and Marco Gios in Torino to hand-build me the exact same frame model named “Via San Remo” which Alfons de Wolf won Milan San Remo with in the 1981 edition. This “new” bike of mine is equipped with super record toe-clips and 36-spoke Ambrosio Nemesis wheels with 21mm Veloflex tubulars. The ride is SUBLIME, comfortable, FAST and always confidence inspiring. Quick downhill cornering is superb. My point is, the trend for wide tires is due to modern frame materials and NOT because there are distinct benefits with wider tires, because there are few, if any, especially when understanding that the speeds in races like that 1981 edition of Milan San Remo was almost as fast as this year’s edition…and on steel bikes and toe clips! Thus I believe the wide tire trend is endeavoring to compensate for one of the few negatives with carbon frame material. Sorry to say GCN appears to be sensationalizing cycling tech here and it at times come across as disingenuous. Apart from this - love the network and regularly consume your shows 👍🏻
Lots of things aren't necessary. That doesn't mean that things aren't better now. Moving on from 21mm tubulars, freewheels and 2x5 wasn't necessary either but I'm happy to never look at that stuff ever again outside of a museum.
Tyre pressures make huge difference indeed for comport. I’m running a tubular wheel set and 120psi on 25c tyres made me feel like a brick on a truck. 85-90psi on the hand, feels like a smooth silk.
6:00 The rider can have both more comfort and more speed if they buy a higher thread count tire. That means cost. So your triangle needs another corner. A supple tire can deform. The bumps will not turn into vertical motion and lost energy. 😊 Further, I don't know why a roadie would use tubeless. You are not going to get a pinch flat at 60 psi. Tubeless tires are necessarily making the sidewalls thicker and the rotating mass higher. That is less efficient with *no* gain. You're welcome.
Since 1981, I've had two pairs of wheels for my Peugeot PX10. Original set Mavic Championat du Monde sprints with 23-28 tubulars. Secondly, Mavic Module E, 27" with 28 - 630 HPs. If I need to ride fast, tubs every time. Forty years of experience tells me the HPs do not roll as well as the tubs.
@@rogermacbain You don't. Not even the pros use tubs anymore, with a few increasingly rare exceptions. The problem here is how do you get a stuck in the past oldie to realise bike tech has moved on now that actual science has now shown most last century cycling lore to be nothing more than myths. BTW tubeless is not the same as tubs/tubular tyres and anecdotes such as your singular tyre comparisons are not data.
High pressure Vredestein Fortezzas on my MAVIC open pro S.U.P. wheels (I have PLENTY of NOS 23mm clinchers in the back of my closet) were the BEST! Ran them at 120psi even though they could go up to 160psi. Too bad nobody even in my local group ride even heard of them...
Snap! Vitoria Diamante Pro 23c (and it was a very narrow 23C) on Mavic Ksyrium Elites at 160psi - dream ride even over gravelly roads and tracks around 2007-2008. With a life of just 300 miles, I couldn't afford to replace and went more mundane for a far less dreamy ride
I'm 82kg and running Hutchinson Sector 28 tyres tubeless at 64(F) and 68(R)... tyres are about right for the rough tarmac here in the Highlands, I had the Fusion 5 Storm 11 Performance (whatever...) last season and while grippy they disintegrated with the outer rubber delaminating and leaving bubbles all over the tyre.... I picked up some Vittoria Rubino Pro TLR in 30C so they'll be going on next no doubt...
I changed from 24 to 32mm.Loved it.. Just that im riding 60psi and still believe is too high, my setup and myself total weight is around 99kg, that was calculated using silca, but i believe i can go lower and be faster and more comfy
It would be interesting to investigate the aero disadvantage of going wider. EliteWheels say that their Drive range is optimised for 25-28mm tires. How many watts would it cost Alex to go from 28 to 32mm in terms of air drag on the same set of wheels (ideally using amateur speeds, not pros)? Going up from 28mm to 32mm would also add some 100 grams, largely negligible but still something to keep in mind (GP5000 S TRs are 45g heavier per tire, adding 5g for a tad extra sealant).
The ETRTO charts say we can go much wider without any changes, e.g. 32mm on rims we have been putting 23mm on. I remember years of happy off-road riding using 2” tires on Ritchey Vantage rims in the 80s. Those were very narrow.
Cynical. Age 69, a pensioner and originally used to 27" * 11/7 Weinmann concave aluminium wheels, you might expect me to be cynical too. I made a mistake in late 2018 buying a second hand 2018 Specialized Roubaix Elite with Hunt wheels for 25C tyres. I had been planning aluminium with 105 and relatively wide tyres for that time. The condition of roads in SE London has only got much worse since then. I'm almst at the point of saying I do need 32C (11/4") tyres on appropriately wide rims to let the wider tyres fit in the frame plus not sink into so many cracks in the road plus give smoother rides. And, yes, I do need, but not in capitals, a different bike: sell both road bikes and replace with latest fashion aluminium with wide tyres, lower pressures, fittings for mudguards for group rides. That would set me up perfectly for 100km daily circuits hopefully for the next ten years. The current fashion really is far better than where bike fashions have been for about 40 years from 1980s and I wish I could afford to become a dedicated follower of the current trend
I'm old (68), riding in far west Texas, elevations ranging from 3,500~6,500'asl, on surfaces that are a bit lumpy. I finally had to move on from my '98 Basso Gap, as it won't fit any tire larger than 23mm. Not sure yet how large a tire will fit a '14 Cannondale Synapse I just acquired, but I'm keen to begin experimenting 😁 Ride On and Keep Calm!
When my bikes were stolen in Septemeber last year I got a new sl7 and put 30mm tires on it, I used to run 22-25mm. They ride so smooth and are still plenty as fast!
GCN has done a scientific test before comparing 32mm to 28mm if i recall. The results were within margin of error at typical group ride speeds. (+-20Mph) But the smaller cross section made the 28mm's save watts at speeds over 25mph So ollie's point has science behind it. Us plebs and mortals get free comfort and pleasure by going thick (pun intended) The pro's can keep their skinnies.
My bike can not accommodate more than 25mm tires. Actually it is 28mm but my wheels internal rim width is only C15, so 28mm tire is not quite right and the road near my home is very muddy when wet. The mud just gets stucked between the wheel and the forks, even having 25mm tires. It is unfortunate that I would like to have a gravel bike that has 45mm tire clearance and fit 25mm tires on it, that will be my perfect bike.
I just switched to Tubeless Continental Terra Speed Gravel Bike Tire 700x35 on my Trek Domane. I've riding on the road and light gravel. I'm amazed how well the bike rides and only looses 1mph of avg. when on road surfaces. The big difference is in the weight of the tires compared to my normal tubeless setup.
Another way to see speed is - get the same place with less effort. I never cared much for speed until I realized that many of the tweaks like lower rolling resistance aren’t really optimizing for speed, they’re optimizing for power. With a better tire I can go at the same speeds with much less effort, and that’s a big win for me.
Yeah, I needed a new bike 😂. In my road fleet, two maxed out at 28 (and one of them really shouldn’t ), 26 and 25. Had to build a new (to me) one to get to 32mm and I’m loving it.
The usage of the PSI metric is not practical for most who are in countries using the metric system to start with, or at least in mainland Europe: PSI means nothing to me as I use Bar as a measure, and my pumps show Bar and not PSI. So dear GCN, can you use at least both?
@@stickymiky123 ever heard of usability design? Affordance design? Users quit a process if you don’t make it easy. This is the same: it’s the responsibility of the designer/editor/writer to make a clear and unambiguous product. Now, if I would be the only one, maybe, but I think the majority of the viewers are not UK or US based.
@@ivarbrouwer197 , yup. No to mention mixing metric and imperial units as cycling is wont to do is just confusing nonsense. If using one, use if for everything and also have the alternate system as captions. But as all the world is metric bar three countries, that should be the default.
I tried this a while back, used an online calculator and followed its recommendation. The ride felt a little sluggish to me, and I got not only a couple of pinch flats, but also a dent in the rim! I'm pretty light too (66 kilos). Upping the pressure from 70psi to 80 feels much better and so far no pinch flats. Everyone is different, of course, but for me higher pressure works better.
Tubeless solved pinch flats 20 years back. This means you can run the correct pressure for your tyres, so more comfort, grip and speed. Rarely a flat tyre too, so win, win, win, win. :D
I find this quite odd. I weigh more or less the same and both Silca and SRAM give me values well above pinch flat territory. I'd get pinch flats if I'd go under 3,5bar, calculators put me at 4-4.5 for 28mm tires and at those pressures I've hit major potholes at speed and never got pinch flats. ( and when riding tubeless no rim hits)
Yes. IMO, except for advances in materials (better tire tread), I think we hit peak bike in 1990. Not peak TT bike, but for a sporty yet versatile machine, yes. Check out the 1990 Bianchi “cross terrain” models.
Not sure about that. 1970s to 1980s standard non-racing (non-agonistic in Italian terminology) for touring and commuting was more like 1.25" or 1.125 " for faster riding, Audax. Racing was tubs that went as narrow as 19mm for smooth roads (now, who remembers them?) but were usually 23C = 23mm. So we're going back to normal people's bikes from your period. Trouble was... unless you went in with the right jersey and a decent latest 10 TT time (I'd didn't race at all), most bike shops of the day (and there were not many) didn't want to know you.
I agree with @cuebj. I started road riding in the late 1980s and finding a race tire wider than a 700x21C at the local bike shop was difficult to impossible.
@@ericpmossstick disc breaks on it and that's basically one of my rides! Mind you, it wasn't advertised as some ground breaking design, just something that worked and is fun.
Well, if your wheels are more than ten years old, you might t need new wheels. And if your bike is 15-25 years old, you might need a new bike. Or just keep riding on 25s.
I'm about to go wider and I can't wait! My winter training bike has wide stable tires and I've switched to my draft legal racing bike and I can feel the instability of the skinny tires. I don't go much higher than 45 psi on the skinny tires because of comfort and stability on corners.
Agreed with everything on the video - interesting that it took us until the 21st century to work this out. One point, however, is that the weight of the tyres might influence choice if you've got a ride with a lot climbing. A narrower tyre might suit better as they go downhill pretty quick too. I'm still riding 25mm (and rim brakes) and haven't felt disadvantaged on the downhills at all.....
I fully realised the lower pressure=more comfort and speed [even though I technically knew it from MTBing] about 8 years back when testing road bikes and found an aero bike [supposedly very uncomfortable] with 24mm tyres was so delightfully plush to ride on the roads that I took it on some gravel trails and single track, because I thought maybe the roads in test area are better than crappy roads at home. It was still lovely and comfortable. I then took a bike with a frame designed to be comfy for Paris Roubaix which was fitted with 28mm tyres on exact same 30km route and came back with tingly hands and feets, plus slower strava times everywhere. I had the shop check pressures and relatively speaking the aero bike had much lower [25%-ish] pressures once tyre volumes were taken into account. So on subsequent purchase of alloy CX frame [again supposedly uncomfortable to ride], which was nicer than any road frame I tested but I could also fit wider tyres, I had a lovely plush ride on my 28mm tyres with just 55-60psi in. Then lowered to 45psi when going to 21mm int width rims from 19mm with 75kg of rider. I later changed from 28mm road tyres to 33mm CX tyre at 34psi because I found I wasn't any slower with the wider knobbly tyres I used over winter. Plus I was even more comfortable on my inevitable off road detours. My chunkier 40mm Nanos were used at just 25PSI and my current 44mm Mezcals are at 22-23psi and are lovely to ride on long road sections or even chain gangs. I collected many a sprinty KOM with these extra low tyre pressures and was really comfortable riding my CX bike all day on 28 or 33mm tyres, even on epic 10-12 hour exploring rides on and off road. Despite forum experts ignorantly claiming CXs are rubbish for anything longer than an hour and are too twitchy for most riding. I should note one 35mm tyre I tried was markedly slower than my 33mm+40mm tyres. Which illustrated how tyre and tread design also matter a lot.
One more thing - if you're riding with inner tubes, latex inner tubes make an appreciable difference in comfort, and supposedly have lower rolling resistance too. So if you dont have the clearance for wider tyres, they can be a good option.
35mm tires on ~70-75psi, lean commuter bike with a flat bar. Small person. New tires recently, but similar to her old ones. The old ones had seen some wear, had a few wee holes in them, and definitely had a shard of glass go through.... because this darn town loves breaking glass in the bike lane. It was time to give them an update. These run lower pressure than old (old were 85psi). I could probably go lower pressure, but at ~55-60psi they feel a little sluggish.
Still "old school". With clinchers, I ride with a 23 in front, and a 25 in back. My old race wheels are shod with 22mm Tubs, except for one front that has a Comp 19 on it. My narrow old school clincher rims would not be happy with a 28 mounted on them.
Been riding since 1993. I still ride a 1990s Colnago Master still with my 25yo MAVIC Open S.U.P. wheels (never trued and still track straight) I found that high pressure VREDESTEIN Fortezza clinchers were the best IMO. Rode them at 115-120psi. Rarely flatted. Now almost nobody even heard this company...good thing I have several of them NOS in my closet.
I run 28 mm tires that measure 30 mm. My total weight is 215 lbs (98 kg), me, bike, and a couple of full bottles. I’m running 61 PSI rear, 58 PSI front. The surfaces I ride vary from new pavement to very poor pavement. The penalty for pressure higher than optimal is much higher than the penalty for pressure below optimal. So, I target the poorest pavement condition that I spend significant time on. In the end, this results in the highest overall speed, and also makes for a more comfortable ride. I’m actually going to try some 32 mm soon. I’m waiting for the rear tire to wear out. Some sources suggest this may be slightly faster than running the 28 mm tires. And it will certainly be even more comfortable.
CX tyres are slower then Vitt Corsa's or Conti GP5k's Or the sponsored P-zero's But 32mm GP5k's ain't slower at the speeds we mortals ride out. @@JeremyLawrence-imajez
Buying an Orbea Orca OMR Gen.6 was the best decision ever. I run 28c tyres on most days but the bike can take up to 35c slicks. If I ever find myself reminiscing the past when I start riding, I can also go 23c and pump it at 200000000psi 😂 thank goodness for disc brakes
True. My previous rim brake bike could handle 28mm and I had to fiddle with the brakes to get the wheels in.. I now have a disc brake aeroad and canyon says it fits 30mm, which is what I have now, but I think I can get 32 or even 35 in there 😱
Old enough to remember progressing from 1¼ to 11/8 then 23C then 19C then back to 23C, I'm stuck with 23C on my old Cannondale System6 and 25C on my fairly old Specialized Roubaix, both with Ultegra that came with the bikes. When new, the Cannondale came with Vitoria Diamante Pro tyres with max psi of 160 - road like a dream even over what we'd now call near gravel roads and tracks but, as the reviews predicted, they shredded after 300 miles so I had to go more mundane. Trouble is roads are so bad in SE London and Kent that I'd like to go 32C (close to the old 1¼) not just for comfort but also for the ruts and cracks that can swallow narrower tyres. Ideally, I would sell both bikes and replace with aluminium (can't afford titanium) and attachments for mudguards for group rides. Can't afford on pension until my wife says we can rent out the loft extension instead of using as her art studio. Which leaves me with looking for new wheels with wider rims for the Roubaix to take 30C tyres if possible and 32C preferably and mudguards that fit the bike and wider tyres. Not yet identified what to get. This video helps me think about rim width, looks like 21mm or 23 mm might be best. The Cannondale can be relegated to riding on rollers
Just remember that going to a larger tire will change the overall circumference of the wheel/tire which will effect the gear inches of you bike and drivetrain. This ma be a very small effect but it will make a change. For me on my gravel bike I wanted a very low gear for climbing and you would be surprised of a larger tire will in effect raise your lowest gear.
My tires are too hard and too narrow? I'm riding the fat bike today with it's 4.8" (120ish mm) width and I'm currently running 6.5psi on the front and 6 psi on the back
Been back on my bike for about a year after a lay off of about 8 years. climbed onto my 23s at 100psi as I’d always done. After watching this I dropped my 28s to 70 and 75. Did 64km yesterday and I’m a convert. So is my backside! My average speed stayed the same too.
25mm tyres (widest that will fit under my mudguards) at about 90psi, but i ride daily and don’t pump up every day (as it would be a hassle) by the time I add more air it’s usually about 80. Also rather than having a super stiff carbon frame, my steel frame absorbs much of the road bumps. Happy with the same setup I’ve had for 12 years now
that's pretty much exactly what I do, except aluminium frame. Cool to hear someone else does the same
Same, have no issues with good supple Conti 25mm tyres with TPU run at 90-100 PSI on my road bike, just need to watch out and avoid potholes. I have tried 30mm tyres on the road bike but prefer 25mm. Why ride a heavier tyre than needed on a road bike? Ride wider tyres on my commute and audax bikes which see rougher roads/tracks.
@@draugmithrin - "Why ride a heavier tyre than needed on a road bike?"
Because a bigger tyre is way more comfortable and usually faster too, so not in fact heavier than needed. More so the longer you ride, being rattled tires you out and slows you down.
I used to ride old skool 23mm high pressure tyres. No more. Now very happy with 33mm tyres at far lower pressures.
I use 25mm tires (Conti GP5000) on my steel road bike (Ritchey Road Logic). I tried 28mm and lower pressues, using the Silca pressure calculator, and the resulting ride quality was dull and felt slightly slower (Strava agreed). I went back to 25mm on the Ritchey. I then put the 28mm tires on my Cannondale CAAD10, which improved the ride quality but didn't give me any measurable additional speed. So my somewhat unscientific conclusion is that frame material may be a significant factor in optimizing tire width.
If it ain't broke! Sounds like a great set up. Do you use the bike for commuting? 🗺
Rim brake user here. my bike won't fit 28 mm, 25-26 is max. Previously I pumped my tires indiscriminantly to whatever felt "right", 6-7 bar. On the rougher asphalt it was terrible as my bike is super rigid. I noticed that only after the air escaped a little, bike started to feel great. I do have a 21 mm internal width rims and with either Pirelli PZero (road) or Conti gp5000s I try to run approximately the tire pressure calculated on Silca website for worn pavement. I don't like the mess with sealant so TPU inner tubes and almost no punctures.
Loved this. My bike came fitted with 25mm so I stayed with them. Now I’m moving to 28mm and the calculator says I can run these roughly 12psi lower and looking forward to the new feel
Enjoy! You can thank us later, please do check back in to let us know how it goes!
Bicycle rolling resistence did an extensive test with all sizes of GP5000's and found that when preasures were adjusted for equal case tension (ride comfort) there was no differene in RR... so it could be argued that wider tires are slower due to extra weight and aero drag.
There have been studies that look at aero too. Iirc, they also suggested that wider is better up to a point.
A test on a smooth test drum is an indicator for the efficiency of the tire itself, but on the road micro vibration due to the never perfect surface are another factor. A wider tire can eliminate some of the vibration, which consumes energy too.
There is one important thing about tires that no one talks about. We are recommending the same width tires to a 50kg and 150kg rider and it doesn't make sense. If you have to pump your tires to a high pressure, say over 90psi on tubes and 75 on tubeless just to avoid bottoming out on the rim, you need a wider tire. Most women and smaller men will be completely comfortable on 25s, while if you're a bit heavier you might require 32s at least.
That’s why there are serious tire pressure calculators that take into account the total weight system of the riders + bike + water bottles + shoes & clothing and EVERYTHING. Not just you naked + your bike with nothing on it
Silica's calculator doesn't make sence either. Gives me total system weight 250lbs a tire pressure recommendation of 85psi on a 28mm.
Subtract 50lbs its only 5lbs less PSI.
That doesn't add up.
I'm 90kg but don't see myself ever using a anything narrower than 28 ever again unless I'm on a velodrome. Even on butter smooth roads, I want 30-35s for traction. I was 140kg and used 25s because that's all that fit on nearly every road bike 20yrs ago. But if I had my present stable when I was 140kg, I think I'd still be riding similar tire sizes with more pressure. The nice thing about hookless is that I really don't care about bottoming out my rim. Got some pretty bad potholes here in Utah as some of the ski resorts I ride by get 500 inches of snow a year(900 last year) and I really don't mind hitting them with my wheels now. Before, I've been careful and still damaged rims
Tire width on a Go Cart and a Formula 1 are not the same.
I was running 28mm a few years ago but, after a huge crash, lost confidence while descending. To gain that confidence back I went wider, then wider, then wider still! I've just ordered some GP5000 AS 35mm wide and am really looking forward to even more grip, comfort, and less wrist and shoulder fatigue on long rides 👍
32 mm tires on my Giant Contend AR1. I thought at first I was riding on tractor tires, thanks for the validation!
Why not immediately move to 40mm tyres? Instead of going 2mm bigger every 2years.
2,25 ?
Because like most things, there is an optimum range. Watch their video where they tested 28, 30, and 32mm tires in similar conditions. Small data set, but it suggested 30mm is best for speed.
Or just use tractor tyres and have done with it. I've been away from cycling for 15 years and am still getting used to this massive tyre business.
Whatelse can they use to flog new bikes. Everything else pretty much stays the same.
@roa5359 I'm totally happy getting more cogs. Pretty easy to please here
A lot depends on the quality of road surfaces you ride on. I quite happily ride in Switzerland with 23mm tyres at 100 psi on my old rim braked road bike, it's perfectly comfortable. However, for my upcoming trip to Belgium, I'll be taking my gravel bike with wide tyres specifically for the cobbles
Riding my 23's on 140psi-ish (slightly above 9.5bar) ^^ How much you weigh, haven't tried 100psi yet so I'm curious if I should drop it down
@@lolly166541 72kg
im at 23- 25mm a little low at 80psi in los angeles, at 110 psi a curb slam sometimes pops or springs a leak, im 165 pounds...except cobblestone, narrow and higher psi is faster..FACT
I used to ride on 23 mm on my 2008 Synapse (a great absorbing frame), but coming from mtb I knew the benefits from wide tires so I use now 23 in winter for short rides, 25 in spring/autumn for medium distance and 28 in summer for 100 to 250 km rides (upt to 4000+ climb) with some light gravel too. Weighting 64 kgs I can pump 60 psi on 28 mm with better comfort and better control going down.
Can vouch for this. Riding 30c Vittoria corsa tubeless at 60psi (90kg rider) on 23mm inner width rims. The bike feels fantastic
Any improvements in speed too? 👀
Often hard to destinguish, how much it's the tire and how much is down to training effects, route planning, wind (sheltered vs open plains)... but smooth is fast!
I'm 90kg also and agree that 30mm tires are better for heavier riders.
Real men use 23mm tires at 150PSI…they also get dropped all the time 😂
@@gcntech I've been riding 30c on the road bike for a few years now, so most improvements are due to my fitness and experience, however when I first switched from 25c to 30c everything felt infinitely more comfortable and faster for sure
im a big bloke, I ride 30mm tubeless on 23mm internal rims. Absolute dream.
Added comfort and speed? 👀
what pressure? I'm at 28mm, 68 psi and I weight 175 lbs
When my wheels and tyres wore out on my winter bike (rim brake) I went from 17mm internal rim width with 23mm tyres (inner tubes - 95psi) to 21mm internal rim width and 25mm tyres (tubeless (70-75psi) - the biggest I can fit in my frame with mudguards - and the difference was unbelievable. Both speed and comfort were hugely improved.
Can I have the old wheels Matt ?? 🤣
Hi Matt, I'll bet £5 I can beat your father-in-law in a BMC 10 miler. I'll be on Conti Supersonic 20mm at 140 psi. 😉
@@jameslee-pevenhull5087 The brake tracks were worn to nothing so they are now used as turbo trainer wheels.
It's such a great difference 🙌
your weight?
I can vouch for it.
I used to have a hybrid bike with oem 700cx35 wheels.
During the pandemic i had gotten the tyres changed to 28 mm. Due to parts shortage.
The ride went from comfortable to atrocious. To an extent that i stopped riding the bike itself.
Recently i dusted the bike and got the tyres changed again to oem 700cx35.
The change in ride quality was immediate. Made me fall in love with cycling again.
Guys if you haven't figured it out, this is GCN's subtle way of saying you DO need a new bike, (to accommodate those new wider tires you now want)
You can't have too many excuses for getting a new bike.
We'll say it.. you don't need a new bikes, ride the bike that makes you smile the most but we love tech and advances in the industry 🙌
Maybe you should look at your bike and try riding with wider tires. My bike that supposedly was 25mm recommended fits 30mm and it's a rim brake setup.
I am running 28mm continental GP5000S on a 40 year old racing bike... Work just fine. I used to run 18mm back in the day on this frame. You probably don't need a new bike
Obviously we need new bike category between cx and road 😂
Thank god! They are finally not trying to sell the hookless TIRE to us this time
Fed up of haters , don’t watch if you don’t like it
Love Hookless! 🚴♂️🚴♂️🚴♂️
the hookless snobs are angry lol
Tyre... This is a British channel ol' chap
we hate hookless, not GCN , dont get me wrong
Switched to 28mm and lowered pressures to 60F 63R. Spot on comfort (55F and 60R proved a little too soft; tyres squirmed a bit on surfaces and bends)
Sounds like a great set-up, Are you running tubeless for those low numbers?
@@gcntech Using hooked carbon rims (45mm deep) with latex tubes. I'm weighing in at 61kg.
Still rocking 23mm Continental Gatorskin tires on my 2004 Trek Equinox 9 tri bike at 110 psi. Seemed to work great at my Olympic distance triathlon last week
I switched from 25mm gatorskins at 80 psi to tubeless 28mm Vittoria Corsa Pros at 65 psi and the difference is night and day. I live in an area with relatively mild winters too, so they stay on year-round 😊
Also, I have an approximately 10 minute difference in commute time across 10 miles when I go from my steel gravel bike with 40mm semislicks to my carbon race bike with the Corsa pros.
Bought a cross bike in 2017 and went from 25mm tyres on the I old carbon race bike to 28mm, jumped to tubeless and 32 then 35mm. Now ride a gravel bike on 35s for the road, pressure in the 50s when aiming for comfort and 60, maybe 65 for fast rides. Having also been a chain waxer since 2018, I can say I'm about 5 years ahead of gcn so if anyone wants the inside scoop on 2029 trends, drop me a line 😂
I have a titanium road bike, so the ride is already super nice. But the 30mm wide tires were due for a change. I decided to move to 34mm and WOW, ride quality is now through the roof. Did a 32mi ride yesterday in zone 2 and it was sublime.
Completely transformed the ride for a nomimal amount of money.
It's a gravel bike
So you have a tractor made of titanium good for you.
We bet that feels plush! 🙌Tyres really do make the world of difference!
@@ruiteixeira6299 weird, because it's still as fast as the 30s, if not faster. And real world testing shows that 30-34s are faster than 28s so, sure. I guess I'll take a faster "tractor".
@@Real28 So a heavy wheel and with less pressure is faster, do the same to your car it will go extra fast LOL
Totally agree. Went from the summer wheels of 21mm internal rims and 28mm tyres back to the 17mm rims and 25mm tyres (to use with fitted mudguards - both GP5000 tyres) and the same rides/roads felt pretty awful. All that broken, scabby tarmac. Trying 30mm on the summer wheels next.
Also the SRAM tyre pressure calculator is good to use.
I did similar by going from summer 28mm road tyres to winter 33mm CX tyres and realizing the 33mm tyres wee no slower. So left them on all year. Way more comfy. Particularly when I inevitably see some interesting off road tracks.
Side benefit of low tire pressures: I can now carry a mini pump and pretty easily get to my target tire pressure, even with scrawny bicyclist arms.
Exactly. I also always mention that.
Great point! 👌
I don't know if I am unusual but I ride my winter bike with 23mm tyres (cannot go bigger because of the mud guards and prefer a dry bum rather than running 25mm) with 100 psi and don't find the ride uncomfortable at all.
My summer bike runs 25mm at 110 plus it's an aero carbon bike and it feels smooth, the British roads are terrible but it's never uncomfortable at all.
ignorance is bliss
@@yogatriathlete not really if it's uncomfortable it's uncomfortable is it not? The bikes I have do not feel any less uncomfortable from my hybrid I used to have when I first got into cycling and that had I think 38s
You probably over-inflated those too. But seriously, 25mm tires at 110 psi is just ridiculous in 2024 with all the information we have now
@@yogatriathlete I'm 85kg anything under 100 to me feels squishy especially when out the saddle, that feels more uncomfortable than anything else.
@@tomrachellesfirstdance7843 I completely understand. I went through the same thing when I started lowering my pressures, but eventually I got used to it (the squishy feeling)
As a bigger rider on an ebike (total 325lb, 147kg), I have found the Silca recommendations are only good for straight roads, and don't take into consideration the inertia of my system weight when hitting holes or bumps resulting in snakebite punctures.
I also don't like the squishy feel of the tires deforming when going around corners.
I've gone back to my formula of 80% of the maximum pressure for the rear and 75% for the front. Tires are 27.5' x 50mm on a 25mm internal width rim rated for 75lbs (so 60lb rear and 56lb front.)
Yeah, the squish scares the crap out of me. It feels like I am flatting.
This is what I have been saying for decades about wheelchairs. When I pushed my sister then, later, my wife's elderly friend, I pumped the tyres close to the max. It made it much easier for me to push and control the chair. At the cost of sligtly firmer ride, it made the sitter feel far more confident as the squishy feeling going round corners and the jarring up and down kerbs was gone. Invariably, I'd find nobody else ever thought of tyre pressures so, next time, I'd find the tyres soft and the sitter had hated being pushed, even by husband.
You've convinced me about this long ago. But there is a caveat to the story. I have a relatively cheap gravel bike, Kross Esker 2.0 MS from 2023. It came with narrow alu rims that are not tubeless-ready (19 mm wide according to specs, though I don't know if this is outer or inner width). I generally knew that tubeless tyres could be ridden with tubes, hence I came up with the idea - I'll buy TPU tubes and good quality tyres to upgrade my machine. Good idea, right? Well...not really. I bought Challenge Getawat 40 mm foldable tyres. Trying to put them on my rims was a nightmare. Struggling long enough I probably would be able to put them on, but them alone - there was no way, to try to put the tubes in there. I can be an example that wanting too much from a budget bike (or rather budget wheels) does not pay off. If some of you, lads, want to upgrade the tyres, make sure you have also proper wheels for the job (or go for lesser quality but easier-to-install tyres).
Can’t go wider if your frame won’t allow it. The expense of going wider is cost prohibitive in this case. Also tubeless sucks.
Went from the default tyres on my bike to a pair of 42mm grippy trekking ones with gravel TPU inner tubes at 40psi each
Never felt more comfy before on her
As a delivery courier, Comfort + Puncture Protection for me anytime, any day
Sounds like a great choice! Comfort and protection, what more do you want from a daily bike 🙌
I’ve changed from 23mm (110psi)-> 25mm (75-90psi). The improvement in ride quality is substantial. I can ride further and faster for sure. With 23s, I’d have to ride up off the saddle at pavement breaks every 20-50’, with 25s at lower pressure I can stay in the saddle and keep pedaling. I’ve lost maybe 2-3mph on my big descents, but that’s fine; 45mph vs 43mph descents don’t make a huge difference in my times.
There will always be lovers and haters. But now I’m running on tubeless 28mm Conti GP 500’s, fixed to a Carbon Aero 50 wheel set, 60psi rear, 55psi front and now I’m saying ‘there were hills here last time I rode this route!!’ In plain speak, I’m flying!!
I'll give that a try, I ride 88mm deep carbon rims and have the GP5000 STR tires on my bike, just the 25mm versions
This is what we like to hear 🙌
Seems like there are other factors to consider. Tarmac quality. Aerodynamics - if you have a wide tire on a narrow rim you separate airflow. Pinch flat risk - if you are not on tubeless.
When you try running lower pressures for the first time, your bike will handle differently and there will be times when you will think you've got a slow puncture but persevere and you get used to the new set up. You also have to get use to seeing your tyres bulging out slightly more. You do have to be more vigilante in avoiding pot holes, especially if you've got aluminium rims. One benefit of lower pressures that no one mentions is that after getting a puncture, if you're using a mini pump to reinflate your tyre, it doesn't take as long to pump it up as it would've done. Including water bottle, tool bottle, lights and Garmin , my bike weighs in at 9.4 kg, I weigh 68 kg plus my kit and I run my 28mm Pirelli P Zero Race TLR's at 56F 58R psi.
I contacted my bike manufacturer’s customer support and asked what’s the widest I can use. For mine it was 30 mm. I used my tire manufacturer’s website for suggested tire pressure.
Rode a pair of 28c tyres until they were worn out and replaced them with a pair of 25c I had left over from another bike from a while back. Was expecting them to be less comfortable but I was wrong. They feel more comfortable and faster even if at a slightly higher pressure. I'm guessing a 21mm inner rim width conforms better with a smaller tyre and double the TPI count has more influence on comfort/feel than just the size of the tyre. I'm actually pretty light at 65kg so there's also that.
I'm sold. Been riding 28mm for years (largest my bike will fit). But, recently added a gravel bike with 45mm wide tyres. Comfort, and a feeling of being more securely planted on the road (and gravel) is immediately improved. Will likely get a set of 32mm road tyres for the gravel bike as well, for when there's more tarmac than gravel.
Used to have 23mm Conti Gatorskins for many years, but now loving my 28mm's, and at 65kg I really be lowering the pressures down from 80 PSI
In my experience, wider rims and tires do get more comfortable and surprisingly the comfort alone helps with sitting in the aero position longer, let alone RR of the tires. Extra confidence at high speed turns is another benefit!
We did a video on just this 👉 ua-cam.com/video/zv8TgTbfUqs/v-deo.html - Once again, comfort is key 👌
Talking bollocks
That was very important.... All we need change new tires not new bike..
Couldn't agree more with everything stated in this fim! I used to think tyres were tyres end of story! How wrong I was. Now I'm settled on 32mm at 60lb (I'm a big guy!) and they're perfect.
I'm really enjoying the new direction GCN appears to be going, more useful info for more of us. Thank you 👍 btw. 120kg on 28mm tubeless, 23mm internal, never needs more than 60psi in my experience 👍
Ps. Hooked obviously 😁
Glad you are enjoying the videos! What topics would you like covering? 👀
I switched from an old style narrow box rim with 23mm tires at 130psi to a modern aluminum rim with 28mm higher end tires at 84psi It was amazing how much more comfortable and how much faster my bike was instantly. I’d like to try and fit 30s but with rim brakes the clearance isn’t quite there. As a heavier rider (100kg) the extra width and lower pressure made a huge difference on my aluminum frame that I was ready to move on from purely based on comfort.
26mm Tires, 200+lbs rider, very smooth flat roads where I live, 20-22mph avg, I swear 120psi is optimal.... I've tried lower psi, and I felt slower and *was* slower.
4:20 Paradoxically, contrary to your B-roll, old steel frames will take up to 33mm tyres usually with no problems at all. It's the stupid aluminium & carbon bikes after that (
Not really. Or rather, it depends. Steel frames from the 60s and 70s will often accept wider tyres, as cheaper and more robust clincher tyres, were common for training and the delicate and expensive tubulars were saved for race days. As clinchers back then could not cope with high pressures, they needed to be wider, so frames usually accomodated for that.
But in the 80s and 90s things changed and frames became much more restrictive. Brakes can also limit tyre clearance. Also, tyre and rim combinations greatly affect real tyre size.
For example, 25mm Conti GP Classc in DP18 rims is about the maximum that I can fit into my mid-1990s Sancineto. About 2mm of clearance is as tight as I am willing to risk. On the same rim however, a 25mm Challenge Strada has plenty of room. This tyre has noticeably less volume, looks about the same as the Conti in 23mm. For practical purposes (tyre pressure, comfort) the real tyre dimensions count, not the number printed on the sidewall. (The Challenge still feels more supple, even at the smaller real size and necessarily higher pressure, but that is because of it's construction and ultra-high tpi casing.)
I don't want to burst your steel-snobbish bubble but for older bikes its for 99,9% dependent on the brake calliper whether or not a wider tyre will fit.
I've got a 2011 aluminium bike with rim brakes and I can fit a 30 mm tyre in with room to spare. The caliper is the limiting factor not the frame in my case.
I'm using 35mm Panaracer on 17mm inner, with tubes. Generally about 60-65 rear and 50-55 psi front
Model: Pasela?:😊
Old rim bike Trek and max width is 25mm - however lower pressures are great for comfort but with the state of the roads has resulted in more pinch punctures. Gone slightly higher now to avoid this at the cost of some comfort
My frame takes 25mm with some rubbing, so I'm sat on 23mm as that's as wide as is probably safe. So actually, no. I can't have any wider or softer tyres.
Dont worry, 23mm worked for years and still does
@@matkrekWho said they didn’t work?
The alternative is going for 650b but that only works with disk brake, and that is even more cash money
I may stay with the 23mm tubs I've ridden most of my life, but I have dropped to 90psi (6.2bar) in front and 100psi (6.9bar) in the back. (My summer weight is around 63Kg) So I've dropped about ten psi on both. On the other hand my bikes are custom steel from the early 2000s, and 23s what we rode. I'm not sure I have clearance for anything bigger than a 25mm.
When I bought my gravel bike I had 25mm tyres. I have gradually increased the width and now maxed out (with my wheels) at 35mm tyres. Ride quality has increased significantly
Sorry GCN I call BS. 58 year old road rider here, former pro, began in the era of steel frames and leather hairnets and I still compete in my age group on various bikes, namely a Dogma F8w and a Bianchi Specialissima Pantani Anniversary version, etc. I will not ride wider than 25mm, simply unnecessary, and this is on top-flight carbon frames. What needs to be mentioned here also is that your vid assumes everyone’s on carbon frames, whilst they’re not. I recently got Aldo and Marco Gios in Torino to hand-build me the exact same frame model named “Via San Remo” which Alfons de Wolf won Milan San Remo with in the 1981 edition. This “new” bike of mine is equipped with super record toe-clips and 36-spoke Ambrosio Nemesis wheels with 21mm Veloflex tubulars. The ride is SUBLIME, comfortable, FAST and always confidence inspiring. Quick downhill cornering is superb. My point is, the trend for wide tires is due to modern frame materials and NOT because there are distinct benefits with wider tires, because there are few, if any, especially when understanding that the speeds in races like that 1981 edition of Milan San Remo was almost as fast as this year’s edition…and on steel bikes and toe clips! Thus I believe the wide tire trend is endeavoring to compensate for one of the few negatives with carbon frame material. Sorry to say GCN appears to be sensationalizing cycling tech here and it at times come across as disingenuous. Apart from this - love the network and regularly consume your shows 👍🏻
Lots of things aren't necessary. That doesn't mean that things aren't better now. Moving on from 21mm tubulars, freewheels and 2x5 wasn't necessary either but I'm happy to never look at that stuff ever again outside of a museum.
GCN Tech: "Why You Need New Tires, NOT A New Bike!"
GCN Bike Sponsors:
given that a lot of old bikes cant fit wider tires, people still need new bikes
Tyre pressures make huge difference indeed for comport. I’m running a tubular wheel set and 120psi on 25c tyres made me feel like a brick on a truck. 85-90psi on the hand, feels like a smooth silk.
6:00 The rider can have both more comfort and more speed if they buy a higher thread count tire. That means cost. So your triangle needs another corner.
A supple tire can deform. The bumps will not turn into vertical motion and lost energy. 😊
Further, I don't know why a roadie would use tubeless. You are not going to get a pinch flat at 60 psi. Tubeless tires are necessarily making the sidewalls thicker and the rotating mass higher. That is less efficient with *no* gain.
You're welcome.
Since 1981, I've had two pairs of wheels for my Peugeot PX10. Original set Mavic Championat du Monde sprints with 23-28 tubulars. Secondly, Mavic Module E, 27" with 28 - 630 HPs.
If I need to ride fast, tubs every time. Forty years of experience tells me the HPs do not roll as well as the tubs.
Tubeless rolls best
you know it, these clowns havent got a clue. tubs for life but how you market tubs to a newbie
@@rogermacbain You don't. Not even the pros use tubs anymore, with a few increasingly rare exceptions.
The problem here is how do you get a stuck in the past oldie to realise bike tech has moved on now that actual science has now shown most last century cycling lore to be nothing more than myths.
BTW tubeless is not the same as tubs/tubular tyres and anecdotes such as your singular tyre comparisons are not data.
High pressure Vredestein Fortezzas on my MAVIC open pro S.U.P. wheels (I have PLENTY of NOS 23mm clinchers in the back of my closet) were the BEST!
Ran them at 120psi even though they could go up to 160psi. Too bad nobody even in my local group ride even heard of them...
Snap! Vitoria Diamante Pro 23c (and it was a very narrow 23C) on Mavic Ksyrium Elites at 160psi - dream ride even over gravelly roads and tracks around 2007-2008. With a life of just 300 miles, I couldn't afford to replace and went more mundane for a far less dreamy ride
Silca pressure calculator gives me (approx) 75 psi on 28 mm tyres, that seems half flat to me ! I'll give it a go though.
I am running 28mm at 77 on rear and 73 on the front, much better feel and speed than the higher pressures I started with.
@@gordonwalker4909 I'm planning on getting 28 mm next time (up from 25) so I may well give this a go, cheers.
@@johnstrac The difference is immediately obvious. Enjoy.
I have 32mm on one bike and 35mm on the other, and I usually run around 60 psi. Both work great in the urban riding I do.
I'm 82kg and running Hutchinson Sector 28 tyres tubeless at 64(F) and 68(R)... tyres are about right for the rough tarmac here in the Highlands, I had the Fusion 5 Storm 11 Performance (whatever...) last season and while grippy they disintegrated with the outer rubber delaminating and leaving bubbles all over the tyre.... I picked up some Vittoria Rubino Pro TLR in 30C so they'll be going on next no doubt...
I found that out on a TREK 400. 28mm tires - the bikes limit - at under 100psi makes things mighty comfortable.
I changed from 24 to 32mm.Loved it.. Just that im riding 60psi and still believe is too high, my setup and myself total weight is around 99kg, that was calculated using silca, but i believe i can go lower and be faster and more comfy
I'm currently on 25's lookin to get 28's slowly getting bigger, but i still have KOM's on 23's.
It would be interesting to investigate the aero disadvantage of going wider. EliteWheels say that their Drive range is optimised for 25-28mm tires. How many watts would it cost Alex to go from 28 to 32mm in terms of air drag on the same set of wheels (ideally using amateur speeds, not pros)? Going up from 28mm to 32mm would also add some 100 grams, largely negligible but still something to keep in mind (GP5000 S TRs are 45g heavier per tire, adding 5g for a tad extra sealant).
You heard it guys you NEED new rims and wider tyres and probably a new frame and forks.
The ETRTO charts say we can go much wider without any changes, e.g. 32mm on rims we have been putting 23mm on. I remember years of happy off-road riding using 2” tires on Ritchey Vantage rims in the 80s. Those were very narrow.
Cynical. Age 69, a pensioner and originally used to 27" * 11/7 Weinmann concave aluminium wheels, you might expect me to be cynical too. I made a mistake in late 2018 buying a second hand 2018 Specialized Roubaix Elite with Hunt wheels for 25C tyres. I had been planning aluminium with 105 and relatively wide tyres for that time. The condition of roads in SE London has only got much worse since then. I'm almst at the point of saying I do need 32C (11/4") tyres on appropriately wide rims to let the wider tyres fit in the frame plus not sink into so many cracks in the road plus give smoother rides. And, yes, I do need, but not in capitals, a different bike: sell both road bikes and replace with latest fashion aluminium with wide tyres, lower pressures, fittings for mudguards for group rides. That would set me up perfectly for 100km daily circuits hopefully for the next ten years. The current fashion really is far better than where bike fashions have been for about 40 years from 1980s and I wish I could afford to become a dedicated follower of the current trend
I'm old (68), riding in far west Texas, elevations ranging from 3,500~6,500'asl, on surfaces that are a bit lumpy. I finally had to move on from my '98 Basso Gap, as it won't fit any tire larger than 23mm. Not sure yet how large a tire will fit a '14 Cannondale Synapse I just acquired, but I'm keen to begin experimenting 😁 Ride On and Keep Calm!
When my bikes were stolen in Septemeber last year I got a new sl7 and put 30mm tires on it, I used to run 22-25mm. They ride so smooth and are still plenty as fast!
Nice bike 👌 Once you get wider tyres you'll never go back 🙌
GCN has done a scientific test before comparing 32mm to 28mm if i recall.
The results were within margin of error at typical group ride speeds. (+-20Mph)
But the smaller cross section made the 28mm's save watts at speeds over 25mph
So ollie's point has science behind it. Us plebs and mortals get free comfort and pleasure by going thick (pun intended)
The pro's can keep their skinnies.
My bike can not accommodate more than 25mm tires. Actually it is 28mm but my wheels internal rim width is only C15, so 28mm tire is not quite right and the road near my home is very muddy when wet. The mud just gets stucked between the wheel and the forks, even having 25mm tires. It is unfortunate that I would like to have a gravel bike that has 45mm tire clearance and fit 25mm tires on it, that will be my perfect bike.
I just switched to Tubeless Continental Terra Speed Gravel Bike Tire 700x35 on my Trek Domane. I've riding on the road and light gravel. I'm amazed how well the bike rides and only looses 1mph of avg. when on road surfaces. The big difference is in the weight of the tires compared to my normal tubeless setup.
Entry trek bike with 32 stock. Just replaced both tires with Gp 5000 clincher. Should be a noticeable reduction in lost watts to rolling resistance.
Another way to see speed is - get the same place with less effort. I never cared much for speed until I realized that many of the tweaks like lower rolling resistance aren’t really optimizing for speed, they’re optimizing for power. With a better tire I can go at the same speeds with much less effort, and that’s a big win for me.
32mm hookless, tubeless, on a Trek Domane… Yorkshire road surface eat your heart out! 😍
also riding a 2021 domane with 32mm tubeless on upgraded bontrager aelous pro 37 hooked rims, its fast AND comfy
Yeah, I needed a new bike 😂. In my road fleet, two maxed out at 28 (and one of them really shouldn’t ), 26 and 25. Had to build a new (to me) one to get to 32mm and I’m loving it.
Just got a set 35cc GP5000 as a 95kg rider who often rides on bad roads I haven't run under 30 mm in the last 5 years.
Please use bar as well as psi. I don’t understand psi🤷🏼♂️
So you're saying my 47mm tires at 30 PSI are too narrow and too high pressure 😊. Big gravel tires are the best
No, they didn't say that.
As a 95kg rider, lower pressures scare me (and my carbon wheels!)
The usage of the PSI metric is not practical for most who are in countries using the metric system to start with, or at least in mainland Europe: PSI means nothing to me as I use Bar as a measure, and my pumps show Bar and not PSI. So dear GCN, can you use at least both?
Can't you just convert it yourself. Or haven't you heard of Google?
@@stickymiky123 ever heard of usability design? Affordance design? Users quit a process if you don’t make it easy. This is the same: it’s the responsibility of the designer/editor/writer to make a clear and unambiguous product. Now, if I would be the only one, maybe, but I think the majority of the viewers are not UK or US based.
@@ivarbrouwer197 , yup. No to mention mixing metric and imperial units as cycling is wont to do is just confusing nonsense.
If using one, use if for everything and also have the alternate system as captions.
But as all the world is metric bar three countries, that should be the default.
Thank you for mentioning this. 👍🏽
89kg, 6,3” … GP5000 28’s/latex inners … 100psi. I absolutely hate the feeling of soft tires
I tried this a while back, used an online calculator and followed its recommendation. The ride felt a little sluggish to me, and I got not only a couple of pinch flats, but also a dent in the rim! I'm pretty light too (66 kilos). Upping the pressure from 70psi to 80 feels much better and so far no pinch flats. Everyone is different, of course, but for me higher pressure works better.
Tubeless solved pinch flats 20 years back. This means you can run the correct pressure for your tyres, so more comfort, grip and speed. Rarely a flat tyre too, so win, win, win, win. :D
I find this quite odd. I weigh more or less the same and both Silca and SRAM give me values well above pinch flat territory. I'd get pinch flats if I'd go under 3,5bar, calculators put me at 4-4.5 for 28mm tires and at those pressures I've hit major potholes at speed and never got pinch flats. ( and when riding tubeless no rim hits)
30 Years ago standard width was 1.25 inches which is about 32 mm wide. So we got it right back in the 1980s?
Yes. IMO, except for advances in materials (better tire tread), I think we hit peak bike in 1990. Not peak TT bike, but for a sporty yet versatile machine, yes. Check out the 1990 Bianchi “cross terrain” models.
Not sure about that. 1970s to 1980s standard non-racing (non-agonistic in Italian terminology) for touring and commuting was more like 1.25" or 1.125 " for faster riding, Audax. Racing was tubs that went as narrow as 19mm for smooth roads (now, who remembers them?) but were usually 23C = 23mm. So we're going back to normal people's bikes from your period. Trouble was... unless you went in with the right jersey and a decent latest 10 TT time (I'd didn't race at all), most bike shops of the day (and there were not many) didn't want to know you.
I agree with @cuebj. I started road riding in the late 1980s and finding a race tire wider than a 700x21C at the local bike shop was difficult to impossible.
@@ericpmossstick disc breaks on it and that's basically one of my rides!
Mind you, it wasn't advertised as some ground breaking design, just something that worked and is fun.
its all fake marketing BS... 23mm at 120psi is fastest..FACT
Well, if your wheels are more than ten years old, you might t need new wheels. And if your bike is 15-25 years old, you might need a new bike. Or just keep riding on 25s.
I'm about to go wider and I can't wait! My winter training bike has wide stable tires and I've switched to my draft legal racing bike and I can feel the instability of the skinny tires. I don't go much higher than 45 psi on the skinny tires because of comfort and stability on corners.
Agreed with everything on the video - interesting that it took us until the 21st century to work this out. One point, however, is that the weight of the tyres might influence choice if you've got a ride with a lot climbing. A narrower tyre might suit better as they go downhill pretty quick too. I'm still riding 25mm (and rim brakes) and haven't felt disadvantaged on the downhills at all.....
I fully realised the lower pressure=more comfort and speed [even though I technically knew it from MTBing] about 8 years back when testing road bikes and found an aero bike [supposedly very uncomfortable] with 24mm tyres was so delightfully plush to ride on the roads that I took it on some gravel trails and single track, because I thought maybe the roads in test area are better than crappy roads at home. It was still lovely and comfortable.
I then took a bike with a frame designed to be comfy for Paris Roubaix which was fitted with 28mm tyres on exact same 30km route and came back with tingly hands and feets, plus slower strava times everywhere. I had the shop check pressures and relatively speaking the aero bike had much lower [25%-ish] pressures once tyre volumes were taken into account.
So on subsequent purchase of alloy CX frame [again supposedly uncomfortable to ride], which was nicer than any road frame I tested but I could also fit wider tyres, I had a lovely plush ride on my 28mm tyres with just 55-60psi in. Then lowered to 45psi when going to 21mm int width rims from 19mm with 75kg of rider. I later changed from 28mm road tyres to 33mm CX tyre at 34psi because I found I wasn't any slower with the wider knobbly tyres I used over winter. Plus I was even more comfortable on my inevitable off road detours. My chunkier 40mm Nanos were used at just 25PSI and my current 44mm Mezcals are at 22-23psi and are lovely to ride on long road sections or even chain gangs.
I collected many a sprinty KOM with these extra low tyre pressures and was really comfortable riding my CX bike all day on 28 or 33mm tyres, even on epic 10-12 hour exploring rides on and off road. Despite forum experts ignorantly claiming CXs are rubbish for anything longer than an hour and are too twitchy for most riding.
I should note one 35mm tyre I tried was markedly slower than my 33mm+40mm tyres. Which illustrated how tyre and tread design also matter a lot.
I stopped checking my tires with gauge and just squeeze them with my hands now and set new PR this year. I also lost 20l.b. Of body weight
19mm 130psi Tubulars are excellent rides!
Isn't that extremely soft though? I run that pressure on 28mm.
One more thing - if you're riding with inner tubes, latex inner tubes make an appreciable difference in comfort, and supposedly have lower rolling resistance too. So if you dont have the clearance for wider tyres, they can be a good option.
I change my tubular continental gatorskin 22mm for s-works turbo cotton hell of the north 28. Day and night !
How do you find the Turbo Cotton's for protection?
@@gcntech really nice, as strong as my former gatorskin ;)
@ 1:08 Those are rookie numbers. Back in the days my Tufo Elite Jet
32mm is the sweet spot for my road bike, 35mm for my winter 1x bike.
35mm tires on ~70-75psi, lean commuter bike with a flat bar. Small person. New tires recently, but similar to her old ones. The old ones had seen some wear, had a few wee holes in them, and definitely had a shard of glass go through.... because this darn town loves breaking glass in the bike lane. It was time to give them an update. These run lower pressure than old (old were 85psi). I could probably go lower pressure, but at ~55-60psi they feel a little sluggish.
Still "old school". With clinchers, I ride with a 23 in front, and a 25 in back. My old race wheels are shod with 22mm Tubs, except for one front that has a Comp 19 on it. My narrow old school clincher rims would not be happy with a 28 mounted on them.
Been riding since 1993. I still ride a 1990s Colnago Master still with my 25yo MAVIC Open S.U.P. wheels (never trued and still track straight)
I found that high pressure VREDESTEIN Fortezza clinchers were the best IMO.
Rode them at 115-120psi. Rarely flatted. Now almost nobody even heard this company...good thing I have several of them NOS in my closet.
I run 28 mm tires that measure 30 mm. My total weight is 215 lbs (98 kg), me, bike, and a couple of full bottles. I’m running 61 PSI rear, 58 PSI front.
The surfaces I ride vary from new pavement to very poor pavement. The penalty for pressure higher than optimal is much higher than the penalty for pressure below optimal. So, I target the poorest pavement condition that I spend significant time on.
In the end, this results in the highest overall speed, and also makes for a more comfortable ride. I’m actually going to try some 32 mm soon. I’m waiting for the rear tire to wear out. Some sources suggest this may be slightly faster than running the 28 mm tires. And it will certainly be even more comfortable.
I found my 33mm/34psi CX tyres to be as fast as my 28mm/45psi road tyres and obviously way more comfy. Particularly on of road stuff.
CX tyres are slower then Vitt Corsa's or Conti GP5k's Or the sponsored P-zero's
But 32mm GP5k's ain't slower at the speeds we mortals ride out.
@@JeremyLawrence-imajez
Buying an Orbea Orca OMR Gen.6 was the best decision ever. I run 28c tyres on most days but the bike can take up to 35c slicks. If I ever find myself reminiscing the past when I start riding, I can also go 23c and pump it at 200000000psi 😂 thank goodness for disc brakes
Problem is, even if u want to you can't use wide tires in any bike, frame allowance it is what it is
True. My previous rim brake bike could handle 28mm and I had to fiddle with the brakes to get the wheels in.. I now have a disc brake aeroad and canyon says it fits 30mm, which is what I have now, but I think I can get 32 or even 35 in there 😱
Please can we have more content on wider tyres and low pressures? Absolutely fascinating and eye opening
Currently ride 25 front and 23 rear. For some reason it's still more comfortable than my rigid mtb with 2.1" tyres....
Old enough to remember progressing from 1¼ to 11/8 then 23C then 19C then back to 23C, I'm stuck with 23C on my old Cannondale System6 and 25C on my fairly old Specialized Roubaix, both with Ultegra that came with the bikes. When new, the Cannondale came with Vitoria Diamante Pro tyres with max psi of 160 - road like a dream even over what we'd now call near gravel roads and tracks but, as the reviews predicted, they shredded after 300 miles so I had to go more mundane. Trouble is roads are so bad in SE London and Kent that I'd like to go 32C (close to the old 1¼) not just for comfort but also for the ruts and cracks that can swallow narrower tyres.
Ideally, I would sell both bikes and replace with aluminium (can't afford titanium) and attachments for mudguards for group rides. Can't afford on pension until my wife says we can rent out the loft extension instead of using as her art studio. Which leaves me with looking for new wheels with wider rims for the Roubaix to take 30C tyres if possible and 32C preferably and mudguards that fit the bike and wider tyres. Not yet identified what to get. This video helps me think about rim width, looks like 21mm or 23 mm might be best. The Cannondale can be relegated to riding on rollers
Just remember that going to a larger tire will change the overall circumference of the wheel/tire which will effect the gear inches of you bike and drivetrain. This ma be a very small effect but it will make a change. For me on my gravel bike I wanted a very low gear for climbing and you would be surprised of a larger tire will in effect raise your lowest gear.
Tom said my rim is the perfect size ❤
My tires are too hard and too narrow? I'm riding the fat bike today with it's 4.8" (120ish mm) width and I'm currently running 6.5psi on the front and 6 psi on the back