Much appreciated for yet another shout out. I'll keep a lookout for anything about fighting and combat in the Heian Period in my studies. It's not pictorial but it might still be useful. Though given that in the Heian Period warriors were identified far more with archery than with swordsmanship so I can't promise anything. And then one final point about the story of Norimitsu. The story doesn't specifically describe how he held the sword, just that it was "like a spear" which allowed him to stab his opponent and get so close that the enemy couldn't slash or cut Norimtsu's clothing. Was that half-swording? It may very well have been, but it's not totally clear from the story. Regardless. Thanks again and best of luck in your research. I'll help out where I can.
From what I've heard, the leather wrapped around the blade was commonly done with nodachi to "extend" the tsuka. That was the reason the nagamaki was created. I've never heard of anyone half swording a katana or tachi, only a nodachi.
@@AntonyCummins Reliable english sources are basically this, nagamaki evolved from odachi that had been wrapped above the tsuba sometime prior to the Muramachi period. TLDR: There are psuedo half swording techniques, which you either use your palm in a v shape around the mune open handed or crab pinching the mune with index finger and thumb and the rest of your hand in a grip safely underneath also on the mune/shinogi-ji in several (supposedly) pre Edo ryu. These techniques probably made actual half swording rare if they were used widely. Ocach/nodachi and nagamaki techniques are few and far between in modern kenjutsu ryu, and most of them (nodachi) are from Edo period where it was like a show that was performed and those specific nodachi usually had very small tanto style tsuba or no tsuba. This allowed for the draw to happen at the exaggerated blade lengths, and was done to "look" like a normal draw on the tsuka when in fact you draw with the lower third quickly and move down to the tsuka as you draw. Sources in any period will be unlikely as the ryu don't like to openly share information, and pictoral art is just art and shouldn't be interpreted as technique in many cases. Also organized ryu probably didn't exist as we think of them. We know that swords were long in Heian and Kamakura, but also bigger curves. Hefiter tsuba and really balanced as a calvary sword that could be used pretty well in that capacity with a single hand even at longer lengths, but also with two hands with the type of riding harness and horse techniques available. English sources (I think in Sato's The Japanese Sword, but my sources mingle so not sure which one) really only mention that there were lower level swords (probably wak length) for foot soldiers, but no real examples exist as they weren't considered worth preservation by anyone in those periods. Nanbokucho swords we know were super long on average, and cut down in many cases later as the spear became the fashion in Muramachi. Many of those would just have been considered tachi, though, as period japanese swords were often pretty long during that period to show off against the rival court. They were many times thinner swords to compensate for the extra weight gained by the length, while earlier swords in the Kamakura were more robust, but on average likely shorter. 32-36 inch nagasa, which many now would consider an odachi now, would just be a tachi and not abnormal length to a Kamakura bushi. Most bushi would have still worn a tachi and a tanto until the daisho gained popularity in late Muromachi, and most up close fighting would have probably been with tanto as the preferred choice over tachi after the bow or polearm was ineffective. Page 57 Sato, The Japanese Sword shows a Kamakura period Mongol invasion image of this. The need for half swording technigues could also be mitigated by the fact that bushi carried two blades, either tachi / tanto or kat/wak(or tanto) so just abandoning the odachi could have been the preferred tactic, or the nagamaki would have been chosen as it existed by Muramachi if you wanted to use that type of technique as a bushi. I am not aware of practicing tachi ryu, either, so technique from those eras is lost I think. It's even likely that odachi/nodachi bushi would have worn the typical two sword compliment in addition to the larger sword which a squire would have maybe carried (or it was just tied to their back while marching/riding). English sources (Sato again maybe) talk about bushi wearing many swords. I think those weapons would have been pretty long, like 40+ inch nagasa with fairly long tsuka (generally thought of as 1/3 of the length of the nagasa). So that would be around 14 inches +. The development of the nagamaki, which hasn't really survived in post Edo ryu, also really shows that the adjusted weapon (nagamaki) would have been used, while possibly some of the techniques below (possible, and likely zero proof to back up outside of ryu oral / video references) would have probably been used instead of the standard European style half swording we think of, bypassing the need for a wrap. Now in multiple kenjustu ryus I have studied (not an expert), you can do a pseudo half sword technique, which is placing the palm with an "open v" shape on the mune. Could be used for stabbing but just as much for tip slashing, which is what the majority of pre edo swordsmanship is about anyway (tip slashing). The exaggerated kesagiri is basically only used as a finishing blow after the opponent is already down, sorta like a double tap with a pistol, but that is what most people think of with Japanese swordsmanship are the pretty / sweeping cuts with a short (comparatively to western example) swords that were Edo period weapons within legal lengths for a relatively short average height user of 5'2". This assumption makes the Japanese sword's reach seem less effective than it is, as there isn't a "sweet spot" lower down from the tip like on their European counterparts which had much higher flexibility. The need for half swording techniques could also be mitigated by the fact that bushi carried two blades, either tachi / tanto or kat/wak(or tanto). It's even likely that odachi/nodachi bushi would have worn the typical two sword compliment in addition to the larger sword which a squire would have maybe carried (or it was just tied to their back while marching/riding). This psuedo half-swording technique can be done with any length blade, and no need for wrap. Also pinching the mune is common for multiple techniques in multiple ryu. So you would "crab" pinch the mune, and if there is a bo-hi, this actually assists in this. Either could extend all the way to the kissaki depending on distance to opponent. Bohi was pretty popular in many eras, and longer examples often have them from the early periods. Finding pictoral sources might be difficult, but popular kenjustu youtube channels have a bunch of this information in it. Also newly made swords on their first polish likely didn't have the same sharpness to the edge in the bottom third. Again most ryu teach the top third for offense, the middle third for control and the bottom third for defense, so no sharpness needed down there. Gloves would have been a pretty common option for bushi of the pre-edo periods as well, so grabbing a bare blade with gloves on right above the tsuba would have been just like half sword techniques of Europe, so wrapping may not really have been needed. Also many of the blades would have had niku, making them not as acutely sharp as modern reproductions (which all really have no niku) or some Edo period polishes. I think the paper wrap is likely more for respect for the blade than protection to the user. I don't know that as neither ryu I worked in taught that, but it makes sense from how you are supposed to handle a nihonto. Again many ryu teach that the bushi kept rice paper for wiping the blade in the upper kimono, although this may just be an Edo period addition (many things are). With very few nodachi techniques, and even less (or none) that practice actually pre Edo techniques those sources are probably pretty biased. Most of the information I have is off likely biased ryu information, although both claim pre-Edo existance. No help on pictoral reference, I know, good luck finding sources! Would be awesome if there are some out there.
I personally cant say ive seen half swording beyond the wierd pinching thing, which i honestly question due to our fingers fragility, in any texts, though im not as well studied on the matter as yourself. That being said, through a lot of sparring when i was younger, i did accidentally learn that if you put the side of the blade on your forarm, its a good way with a long sword to get in, "block" in a SIMILAR manner to European long sword half swording. Possibly how i did it... i was watching a knight documentary at the time i figured it out. Im not sure if there's anything historically thoigh
Thank you very much, I know that the broken katana, so if the piece was long enough it was put into the sword scabbard and tied with a cord or cloth and tried to fight with it
You Tube Video Iaido Kata Seitei 09 Kyuhon me Soete zuki I would like to see a modern school of general techniques (Japan Film & TV sword masters) not to mention actor training for historical dramas.
That's a pretty ignorant comment to make; you have a video on the paracord bracelet from Mad Max, and you're calling THIS a ridiculous topic? heh... Ok...
@@TheShurikenZone Well, it was a video made a decade ago and based on other videos people were making about that topic at the time. I've never seen or heard anything about this blade holding technique, however, upon further thought I'd like to withdraw my criticism because people should be able to make videos about any topic they want, even if I myself find no relevance or interest in the subject matter.
Much appreciated for yet another shout out. I'll keep a lookout for anything about fighting and combat in the Heian Period in my studies. It's not pictorial but it might still be useful. Though given that in the Heian Period warriors were identified far more with archery than with swordsmanship so I can't promise anything. And then one final point about the story of Norimitsu. The story doesn't specifically describe how he held the sword, just that it was "like a spear" which allowed him to stab his opponent and get so close that the enemy couldn't slash or cut Norimtsu's clothing. Was that half-swording? It may very well have been, but it's not totally clear from the story.
Regardless. Thanks again and best of luck in your research. I'll help out where I can.
Anything helps. Descriptions of archery spears anything which gives us a clue.
From what I've heard, the leather wrapped around the blade was commonly done with nodachi to "extend" the tsuka. That was the reason the nagamaki was created. I've never heard of anyone half swording a katana or tachi, only a nodachi.
Any sword will do. But yes nodachi
@@AntonyCummins Reliable english sources are basically this, nagamaki evolved from odachi that had been wrapped above the tsuba sometime prior to the Muramachi period.
TLDR:
There are psuedo half swording techniques, which you either use your palm in a v shape around the mune open handed or crab pinching the mune with index finger and thumb and the rest of your hand in a grip safely underneath also on the mune/shinogi-ji in several (supposedly) pre Edo ryu. These techniques probably made actual half swording rare if they were used widely.
Ocach/nodachi and nagamaki techniques are few and far between in modern kenjutsu ryu, and most of them (nodachi) are from Edo period where it was like a show that was performed and those specific nodachi usually had very small tanto style tsuba or no tsuba. This allowed for the draw to happen at the exaggerated blade lengths, and was done to "look" like a normal draw on the tsuka when in fact you draw with the lower third quickly and move down to the tsuka as you draw.
Sources in any period will be unlikely as the ryu don't like to openly share information, and pictoral art is just art and shouldn't be interpreted as technique in many cases. Also organized ryu probably didn't exist as we think of them.
We know that swords were long in Heian and Kamakura, but also bigger curves. Hefiter tsuba and really balanced as a calvary sword that could be used pretty well in that capacity with a single hand even at longer lengths, but also with two hands with the type of riding harness and horse techniques available.
English sources (I think in Sato's The Japanese Sword, but my sources mingle so not sure which one) really only mention that there were lower level swords (probably wak length) for foot soldiers, but no real examples exist as they weren't considered worth preservation by anyone in those periods. Nanbokucho swords we know were super long on average, and cut down in many cases later as the spear became the fashion in Muramachi. Many of those would just have been considered tachi, though, as period japanese swords were often pretty long during that period to show off against the rival court. They were many times thinner swords to compensate for the extra weight gained by the length, while earlier swords in the Kamakura were more robust, but on average likely shorter. 32-36 inch nagasa, which many now would consider an odachi now, would just be a tachi and not abnormal length to a Kamakura bushi.
Most bushi would have still worn a tachi and a tanto until the daisho gained popularity in late Muromachi, and most up close fighting would have probably been with tanto as the preferred choice over tachi after the bow or polearm was ineffective. Page 57 Sato, The Japanese Sword shows a Kamakura period Mongol invasion image of this. The need for half swording technigues could also be mitigated by the fact that bushi carried two blades, either tachi / tanto or kat/wak(or tanto) so just abandoning the odachi could have been the preferred tactic, or the nagamaki would have been chosen as it existed by Muramachi if you wanted to use that type of technique as a bushi. I am not aware of practicing tachi ryu, either, so technique from those eras is lost I think.
It's even likely that odachi/nodachi bushi would have worn the typical two sword compliment in addition to the larger sword which a squire would have maybe carried (or it was just tied to their back while marching/riding). English sources (Sato again maybe) talk about bushi wearing many swords. I think those weapons would have been pretty long, like 40+ inch nagasa with fairly long tsuka (generally thought of as 1/3 of the length of the nagasa). So that would be around 14 inches +.
The development of the nagamaki, which hasn't really survived in post Edo ryu, also really shows that the adjusted weapon (nagamaki) would have been used, while possibly some of the techniques below (possible, and likely zero proof to back up outside of ryu oral / video references) would have probably been used instead of the standard European style half swording we think of, bypassing the need for a wrap.
Now in multiple kenjustu ryus I have studied (not an expert), you can do a pseudo half sword technique, which is placing the palm with an "open v" shape on the mune. Could be used for stabbing but just as much for tip slashing, which is what the majority of pre edo swordsmanship is about anyway (tip slashing). The exaggerated kesagiri is basically only used as a finishing blow after the opponent is already down, sorta like a double tap with a pistol, but that is what most people think of with Japanese swordsmanship are the pretty / sweeping cuts with a short (comparatively to western example) swords that were Edo period weapons within legal lengths for a relatively short average height user of 5'2".
This assumption makes the Japanese sword's reach seem less effective than it is, as there isn't a "sweet spot" lower down from the tip like on their European counterparts which had much higher flexibility. The need for half swording techniques could also be mitigated by the fact that bushi carried two blades, either tachi / tanto or kat/wak(or tanto). It's even likely that odachi/nodachi bushi would have worn the typical two sword compliment in addition to the larger sword which a squire would have maybe carried (or it was just tied to their back while marching/riding).
This psuedo half-swording technique can be done with any length blade, and no need for wrap. Also pinching the mune is common for multiple techniques in multiple ryu. So you would "crab" pinch the mune, and if there is a bo-hi, this actually assists in this. Either could extend all the way to the kissaki depending on distance to opponent. Bohi was pretty popular in many eras, and longer examples often have them from the early periods. Finding pictoral sources might be difficult, but popular kenjustu youtube channels have a bunch of this information in it.
Also newly made swords on their first polish likely didn't have the same sharpness to the edge in the bottom third. Again most ryu teach the top third for offense, the middle third for control and the bottom third for defense, so no sharpness needed down there. Gloves would have been a pretty common option for bushi of the pre-edo periods as well, so grabbing a bare blade with gloves on right above the tsuba would have been just like half sword techniques of Europe, so wrapping may not really have been needed. Also many of the blades would have had niku, making them not as acutely sharp as modern reproductions (which all really have no niku) or some Edo period polishes.
I think the paper wrap is likely more for respect for the blade than protection to the user. I don't know that as neither ryu I worked in taught that, but it makes sense from how you are supposed to handle a nihonto. Again many ryu teach that the bushi kept rice paper for wiping the blade in the upper kimono, although this may just be an Edo period addition (many things are). With very few nodachi techniques, and even less (or none) that practice actually pre Edo techniques those sources are probably pretty biased. Most of the information I have is off likely biased ryu information, although both claim pre-Edo existance.
No help on pictoral reference, I know, good luck finding sources! Would be awesome if there are some out there.
I personally cant say ive seen half swording beyond the wierd pinching thing, which i honestly question due to our fingers fragility, in any texts, though im not as well studied on the matter as yourself.
That being said, through a lot of sparring when i was younger, i did accidentally learn that if you put the side of the blade on your forarm, its a good way with a long sword to get in, "block" in a SIMILAR manner to European long sword half swording. Possibly how i did it... i was watching a knight documentary at the time i figured it out. Im not sure if there's anything historically thoigh
Matt Easton did videos on the topic in the past. He used pictoral evidence too i think. Gotta look that up.
I hope you have a lot of luck with images
I am in Michigan, curious where in the state it will be.
Richmond I think
Thank you very much, I know that the broken katana, so if the piece was long enough it was put into the sword scabbard and tied with a cord or cloth and tried to fight with it
You Tube Video
Iaido Kata Seitei 09 Kyuhon me Soete zuki
I would like to see a modern school of general techniques (Japan Film & TV sword masters) not to mention actor training for historical dramas.
Come to Texas my friend.
👍🤺👍
Well alright then.
I think the Bujinkan have
Wouldn’t this fall under Muto Dori of the Takamatsu-den schools? 🤔 Antony, try looking closer at the Kukishinden Ryu and the Takagi Yoshin Ryu. 😉
@@tiffanybatcheller-harris522 Nope. Muto dori is not about gripping your own sword blade.
Never even heard of this technique. But man, pretty sad that this inane topic is even a subject of inquiry.
?
That's a pretty ignorant comment to make; you have a video on the paracord bracelet from Mad Max, and you're calling THIS a ridiculous topic? heh... Ok...
@@TheShurikenZone Well, it was a video made a decade ago and based on other videos people were making about that topic at the time. I've never seen or heard anything about this blade holding technique, however, upon further thought I'd like to withdraw my criticism because people should be able to make videos about any topic they want, even if I myself find no relevance or interest in the subject matter.
Your email please?
It is on website but antonyjcummins@yahoo.co.uk