I've got two tips. #1 You're using too high of a temp for eggs. You're at steak searing levels at almost 400 hundred degrees. #2 Use butter! I can cook bacon in my debuyer, empty most of the grease, drop in some cold butter, and then I'll crack an egg into the pan with the fire still off. You only need to be at above 275ish. I make the perfect over-easy egg almost every time like this. Zero browning. For two eggs, or more I'd turn the flame back on a low-medium temp.
Thanks for the feedback. I think my fried egg problem is that personally, I don't like them, so I have only practiced making them for others. I'm a scrambled and omelet guy! At then end of the day, I'm looking for the nonstick ability and durability of the seasoning. I'll put more practice into my fried eggs!!
There are number of ways to fry eggs. At times I like them browned , other times I enjoy them cooked at lower temperature. Nowadays I've been frying Spanish style, with heavy amount of olive oil, just below the smoke point. Fallow put out a video recently illustrating some ten different styles. If you watch it, what they call the olive oil method, is in fact the Spanish style.
hey, we all like our eggs different. Some people really enjoy the french/Japanese 90% drinkable omelettes. Some people like hard scrambles that bounce when dropped. Others like a nice browning and all that Miard reaction. People who are too fussy at *other people's* eggs might need to touch a bit more grass than their currently getting.
@@ZippytheHappyChimp You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not an egg dictator lol. I never even mentioned french style. I have different tastes for different moods too. They were simply tips that could make a big difference to many people. Why don't you take your own advice then, and try something "different," or don't...
For me the big game changer with Strata has been how quickly it heats up compared with my DeBuyer. In addition to the weight. I think this would be another thing to compare and a selling point, speed and even heating, especially on induction.
Yeah, it really is a trade off. Lighter pan means less thermal mass, so it heats up quicker, (but also holds it's heat for less time). If you are using for eggs it really shouldn't matter. But for sautee, I like a heavier pan that can hold it's heat better. But as long as you are aware, and enjoy the faster heat up and lighter weight, seems like a great option.
On top of that is the weight. That has made it much easier to move away from the non-stick pans. Do wish is was made in the west which is why we also love the Stargazer.
Good test, pan weight being too heavy is a common complaint I hear. It is not a problem for me, and hopefully it will never be a problem for me, but it is nice to know Strata will work fine for eggs. The question is does it do a comparable sear on a steak. Next test.
Thank you for the information. I use de Buyer pans (from your store) and this is off the topic of this video but, I have a problem adding liquid to a dish. I know tomatoes can't be added but, say, making a curry, I want to add coconut milk and broth. That destroys the seasoning on the pan. I don't mind re-seasoning the pan but I wonder if toxins get in the food when liquid boils off the seasoning. Thanks if you get a chance to clarify this.
I think a lot of people are looking for thermal mass .. so from that POV, no, you want the heavier full-carbon-steel or a cast-iron pan. Also a cheap lodge works well and is way less money.
I got a small Matfer quite a while ago, for a good price. I think I would slightly prefer a Mineral B's thickness and quality (I think it seasons better for some reason), except that I appreciate the rivetless feature of the Matfer. If the pan is small enough, the weight difference is not so big of a deal.
I have the 9.5 inch Matfer and Min B Pro. They both are super great. But the handle of the Min B Pro gets water lodged in between the handle and the pan and when u heat it back up to dry n reseason it drops hot water droplets on me. So I prefer my Matfer 9 5 it's my go to.
"I just want to be exact" those IR thermometers are not very accurate with carbon steel pans. The temperature you read off the pan depends entirely on the emissivity of the surface. Unfortunately, the emissivity is dependent on how dark the seasoning is. A brand new pan with a light seasoning is going to have a much lower emissivity than a heavily seasoned pan with deep black carbon deposits in it. Low emissivity translates to a higher temperature than what the IR thermometer will tell you. You can, of course, adjust the emissivity settings on the gun but it's total guesswork unless you have a contact thermometer to compare temperatures so you can calibrate it. But then when the seasoning changes or you switch to measuring the temperature of a different pan you need to re-calibrate the emissivity setting! Lastly, as you probably noticed, the temperature of carbon steel pans varies dramatically over the whole surface due to the poor heat conductivity of carbon steel. The Strata pans, with their clad aluminum core, should help a lot with this issue
These are very good points, and that is exactly what I've found. I don't use IR guns except for this type of thing where I'm 'trying' to be as close as possible. I did find the Strata to be a bit more consistent, but not a lot.
I have a lot of pans including a set of demeyere silver 7, debuyer professional, I got a Strata, my favorite is Blue Diamond Ceramic coated pan. At present you can pu 10” pan for 14.99. I can make eggs no browning. I do omelettes where I place cheese on top and flip and have melted cheese right on pan surface after a minute I will slide to plate. Nothing sticks and no residue ive had these pans for over a year to me they are good as the day I bought them. I like all the different culinary hardware but I must say Im highly impressed. You need to try them. Ps get a frock I think there interesting also. Your Videos are always welcomed to see comparison and it helps people that are shopping for a particular pan. I want to add I worked in a high end country club back in the late 70’s early 80”s. The go to was bare aluminum pans. I use to make blintz wraps poor the batter in pan a little tap and flip and you had the perfect wrapper 250 later. At the time it didnt register but a light pan is probably preferred. I have seared in the blue diamond they recommend low to medium heat, you get comparable product without all the theatrics and mess. Clean up, I let them cool and run some warm water and use a sponge and 30 seconds later or less your finished no need for detergent.
Glad you like the Blue Diamond ceramic pans. We used to have some, but the ceramic eventually started coming off and everything stuck to the pans. They warped, too. I still prefer stainless steel or carbon steel now. Happy cooking!
Thanks for this, Jed! I love my Mineral B omelet pan, but at my age (73) I'm not loving the weight. I wish the Strata were a tad bit bigger. I still would like to get one though. I have a feeling I'd use the Strata more than the Mineral B just because of weight.
I was thinking more like 9 1/2” like the DeBuyer omelette pan. Not sure what the actual cooking surface is on both pans. I guess the size difference between the two isn’t really a big deal since I would use it for eggs.
@@hepgeoff I like the 8,5 for up to 3 eggs, which is all I do at one time. But their 10-inch would be only a bit bigger than the de Buyer omelette pan. I hope that helps! You have the link for the discount?
Good point. I think the strata would be more even due to the aluminum layer. Carbon steel and cast iron are known to not be particularly even if the induction source itself gives a distinct circle
I have been using the DeBuyer blue steel 9 1/2" pan I purchased from World Market for $22 almost 20 years ago, I put that pan through hell. I started with the potato skin seasoning method and almost every other seasoning method, currently it has near zero "seasoning" and it still performs amazing, with a low heat and butter or olive oil, this is the best egg pan ever. The trick I have found is never use it for anything but eggs. Also it weighs in at just over 2.5lbs.
Good test, realistic. Thanks for that! But why use seed oil? While hunting for the best carbon steel pan Jed has missed on a "no seed oil revolution". Should have used ghee, clarified butter or better yet just regular butter. First of all it makes for a more delicious egg and second, it would make it an even more realistic test, since it is easy to make your butter go brown at temperatures over 300F (and you don't want that), yet lower temperature of around 230-250F would make a pan less nonstick. This is where the real art of frying an egg on carbon steel comes in! Following Jed's reviews I bought a Strata 12" pan, seasoned it properly several times so it looks beautiful, dark bronze inside. But for my own egg test it did no better than a property prepared and preheated 3-clad SS skillet. I still like the Strata skillet though. I bought it for 40% off on their website where they had a good sale on skillets with minor cosmetic imperfections, but on my examination, when this pan arrived, I saw nothing wrong with it at all. So may be that's a way to buy Strata if you don't want to fork out $150 for just one pan. Mine did cost me around $90. It weighs about the same as Sam's Club 3 ply SS skillet so it is way easier to use than a 12" Matfer carbon steel or Lodge cast iron I use in my kitchen. Btw, instead of using seed oil like the guy in a most popular comment under this video said, do bacon in that skillet first and then add butter, or to make it more pristine, use a bit of ghee or clarified butter as a base fat (instead of seed oil) and then add butter. This raises the smoke point of this fat mixture by about 100 degrees F and still gives you a classic taste of butter fried egg. Tried and true method both on carbon steel or stainless!
My own experience is if you like eggs white, just use a lower temp to cook them. Around 275 to 290 at most. The eggs won’t stick and you can get that goldilocks egg you want and without Teflon, without butter (you can use if you wish). Just a little practice. My experience is in a Debuyer pan. I’m awaiting a Strata and I suspect there will be a learning curve. Keeps the grey cells working….
For folks who don't always treat their pans right (or have housemates/kids who might make "mistakes") the lighter pan will be easier to warp. nothing a rubber mallet won't fix, but it's technically a point.
So they combined the low heat retention of an aluminum skillet with the highly reactive cooking surface of a carbon steel skillet. Worst of both worlds ... I don't use cast iron / carbon steel because I like taking care of the patina, having to put more effort into maintenance or have worse non-stick properties compared to Teflon. I use them because they ARE heavy which results in more heat capacity (and a certain heat radiation effect). Replacing carbon steel with aluminum to save weight results in losing the main reason why I use those heavy things. DeMeyre makes a stainless steel skillet with aluminum core that has a heat retention close to cast iron. Guess how much that thing weighs - the same as a heavy carbon steel or a light cast iron skillet. Storing thermic energy in a metal vessel requires mass. Mass can only replaced by even more mass.
I'm the first one to agree with you. Weight is quality. But, I've dealt with loads of people that want iron results without the weight. They just can't manage it. This is why this pan is a win, BUT as I try to be super clear about, it does not replace my solid iron and carbon pans. It's an excellent alternative to those who need it.
Aluminum actually has higher heat retention per lb than iron so an equal weight aluminum pan would be better than steel or cast iron. There is a range where an aluminum pan would be both lighter and have more heat retention. Below that weight range the aluminum pan it has less heat retention but even lighter weight than the iron or steel. Most aluminium containing pans are in that range of maximizing lower weight, one exception as you noted being the Demeyere Proline pans.
@@Cook-Culture I don't doubt there's a market for that skillet. Otherwise, it wouldn't exist. But to me, it combines the disadvantages of both materials, not the benefits. Still, due to the YT hype of cast iron and carbon steel, that skillet makes some sort of weird sense.
@@paulgraham2314 I agree. But the higher heat retention per lb is again countered by the weight to volume ratio. To get an aluminum skillet heavy enough to retain heat like 2,5 - 3 mm carbon steel, it has to be much thicker. As shown by the DeMeyre Proline skillets with their extremely thick walls. In the end, there's no ideal solution. The skillet has to be heavy (steel) or slightly lighter but very thick (aluminum core) if you want good heat retention. And that's the main reason why I use cast iron and carbon steel.
Why is heat “retention” a good thing? Isn’t the point of any pan to get the heat into the food being cooked? What good is it for the heat to remain in the pan? Remember the whole conservation of energy lesson from school? If the heat energy is still in the pan, then it can’t be in the food. If the pan cools quickly when you add food, that’s a good thing because that energy had gone into the food. As long as the heat distribution is even, you want faster transfer of heat to food. That’s where most aluminum pans fail is the uneven heat distribution due to its high thermal conductivity and being thin at the same time. Cooking with a reactive pan requires a different technique than with heavy cookware. You adjust as the situation changes but now you don’t have to anticipate for the slow response. Like if you sear a steak, don’t crank the heat really high first, just get it hot enough, throw in the steak, then increase the temp to counter the heat being sucked up by the steak. It is easier to burn stuff with a reactive pan true, but that’s like saying it’s easier to get a speeding ticket with a Ferrari than a Prius. That’s a skill issue, not a pan issue.
I've got two tips. #1 You're using too high of a temp for eggs. You're at steak searing levels at almost 400 hundred degrees. #2 Use butter! I can cook bacon in my debuyer, empty most of the grease, drop in some cold butter, and then I'll crack an egg into the pan with the fire still off. You only need to be at above 275ish. I make the perfect over-easy egg almost every time like this. Zero browning. For two eggs, or more I'd turn the flame back on a low-medium temp.
That’s been my main criticism of his egg videos. Eggs aren’t meant to be seared 😂. 250-300, if the butter is cracking and popping the temp it too high
Thanks for the feedback. I think my fried egg problem is that personally, I don't like them, so I have only practiced making them for others. I'm a scrambled and omelet guy! At then end of the day, I'm looking for the nonstick ability and durability of the seasoning. I'll put more practice into my fried eggs!!
There are number of ways to fry eggs. At times I like them browned , other times I enjoy them cooked at lower temperature. Nowadays I've been frying Spanish style, with heavy amount of olive oil, just below the smoke point. Fallow put out a video recently illustrating some ten different styles. If you watch it, what they call the olive oil method, is in fact the Spanish style.
hey, we all like our eggs different. Some people really enjoy the french/Japanese 90% drinkable omelettes. Some people like hard scrambles that bounce when dropped. Others like a nice browning and all that Miard reaction. People who are too fussy at *other people's* eggs might need to touch a bit more grass than their currently getting.
@@ZippytheHappyChimp You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not an egg dictator lol. I never even mentioned french style. I have different tastes for different moods too. They were simply tips that could make a big difference to many people. Why don't you take your own advice then, and try something "different," or don't...
For me the big game changer with Strata has been how quickly it heats up compared with my DeBuyer. In addition to the weight. I think this would be another thing to compare and a selling point, speed and even heating, especially on induction.
That's a valid point. Thank you
Yeah, it really is a trade off. Lighter pan means less thermal mass, so it heats up quicker, (but also holds it's heat for less time). If you are using for eggs it really shouldn't matter. But for sautee, I like a heavier pan that can hold it's heat better. But as long as you are aware, and enjoy the faster heat up and lighter weight, seems like a great option.
On top of that is the weight. That has made it much easier to move away from the non-stick pans. Do wish is was made in the west which is why we also love the Stargazer.
Good test, pan weight being too heavy is a common complaint I hear. It is not a problem for me, and hopefully it will never be a problem for me, but it is nice to know Strata will work fine for eggs. The question is does it do a comparable sear on a steak. Next test.
Just bought the Demeyere Atlantis set. OUTSTANDING, as you were saying long time ago. Best pans I ever had. Pots the same...CRAZY!
The BEST purchase ever. You (and your kids) will never need to buy cookware again. Congrats
Do you have Ruffoni Cookware? If so what are your thoughts on it? Thank you
Thank you for the information. I use de Buyer pans (from your store) and this is off the topic of this video but, I have a problem adding liquid to a dish. I know tomatoes can't be added but, say, making a curry, I want to add coconut milk and broth. That destroys the seasoning on the pan. I don't mind re-seasoning the pan but I wonder if toxins get in the food when liquid boils off the seasoning. Thanks if you get a chance to clarify this.
What I want to know is if the Strata is a good ribeye pan ??
That's a question for Uncle Scott! Check out his channel
I think a lot of people are looking for thermal mass .. so from that POV, no, you want the heavier full-carbon-steel or a cast-iron pan. Also a cheap lodge works well and is way less money.
I got a small Matfer quite a while ago, for a good price. I think I would slightly prefer a Mineral B's thickness and quality (I think it seasons better for some reason), except that I appreciate the rivetless feature of the Matfer. If the pan is small enough, the weight difference is not so big of a deal.
I have the 9.5 inch Matfer and Min B Pro. They both are super great. But the handle of the Min B Pro gets water lodged in between the handle and the pan and when u heat it back up to dry n reseason it drops hot water droplets on me. So I prefer my Matfer 9 5 it's my go to.
"I just want to be exact" those IR thermometers are not very accurate with carbon steel pans. The temperature you read off the pan depends entirely on the emissivity of the surface. Unfortunately, the emissivity is dependent on how dark the seasoning is. A brand new pan with a light seasoning is going to have a much lower emissivity than a heavily seasoned pan with deep black carbon deposits in it. Low emissivity translates to a higher temperature than what the IR thermometer will tell you. You can, of course, adjust the emissivity settings on the gun but it's total guesswork unless you have a contact thermometer to compare temperatures so you can calibrate it. But then when the seasoning changes or you switch to measuring the temperature of a different pan you need to re-calibrate the emissivity setting! Lastly, as you probably noticed, the temperature of carbon steel pans varies dramatically over the whole surface due to the poor heat conductivity of carbon steel. The Strata pans, with their clad aluminum core, should help a lot with this issue
These are very good points, and that is exactly what I've found. I don't use IR guns except for this type of thing where I'm 'trying' to be as close as possible. I did find the Strata to be a bit more consistent, but not a lot.
I have a lot of pans including a set of demeyere silver 7, debuyer professional, I got a Strata, my favorite is Blue Diamond Ceramic coated pan. At present you can pu 10” pan for 14.99. I can make eggs no browning. I do omelettes where I place cheese on top and flip and have melted cheese right on pan surface after a minute I will slide to plate. Nothing sticks and no residue ive had these pans for over a year to me they are good as the day I bought them. I like all the different culinary hardware but I must say Im highly impressed. You need to try them. Ps get a frock I think there interesting also. Your Videos are always welcomed to see comparison and it helps people that are shopping for a particular pan. I want to add I worked in a high end country club back in the late 70’s early 80”s. The go to was bare aluminum pans. I use to make blintz wraps poor the batter in pan a little tap and flip and you had the perfect wrapper 250 later. At the time it didnt register but a light pan is probably preferred. I have seared in the blue diamond they recommend low to medium heat, you get comparable product without all the theatrics and mess. Clean up, I let them cool and run some warm water and use a sponge and 30 seconds later or less your finished no need for detergent.
That's really good to hear. I have people ask me about a good ceramic pan all the time. I'll check it out.
Glad you like the Blue Diamond ceramic pans. We used to have some, but the ceramic eventually started coming off and everything stuck to the pans. They warped, too. I still prefer stainless steel or carbon steel now. Happy cooking!
@@hepgeoff Thanks for the long-term use feedback!
Thanks for this, Jed! I love my Mineral B omelet pan, but at my age (73) I'm not loving the weight. I wish the Strata were a tad bit bigger. I still would like to get one though. I have a feeling I'd use the Strata more than the Mineral B just because of weight.
Yeah, Geoff. You are the target demo for this pan! What do you mean about bigger? Larger than the 12,5 inch?
I was thinking more like 9 1/2” like the DeBuyer omelette pan. Not sure what the actual cooking surface is on both pans. I guess the size difference between the two isn’t really a big deal since I would use it for eggs.
@@hepgeoff I like the 8,5 for up to 3 eggs, which is all I do at one time. But their 10-inch would be only a bit bigger than the de Buyer omelette pan. I hope that helps! You have the link for the discount?
Thanks, Jed. Yeah, the 8.5 would work just fine. I think I have the discount link. I just gotta convince the wife I need one more pan 😄
Would love to how both perform on induction.
Good suggestion.
Good point. I think the strata would be more even due to the aluminum layer. Carbon steel and cast iron are known to not be particularly even if the induction source itself gives a distinct circle
Where is the butter? Asking for uncle Scott. 😉
Haha!
I have been using the DeBuyer blue steel 9 1/2" pan I purchased from World Market for $22 almost 20 years ago, I put that pan through hell. I started with the potato skin seasoning method and almost every other seasoning method, currently it has near zero "seasoning" and it still performs amazing, with a low heat and butter or olive oil, this is the best egg pan ever. The trick I have found is never use it for anything but eggs. Also it weighs in at just over 2.5lbs.
Thanks for sharing!
Good test, realistic. Thanks for that! But why use seed oil? While hunting for the best carbon steel pan Jed has missed on a "no seed oil revolution". Should have used ghee, clarified butter or better yet just regular butter. First of all it makes for a more delicious egg and second, it would make it an even more realistic test, since it is easy to make your butter go brown at temperatures over 300F (and you don't want that), yet lower temperature of around 230-250F would make a pan less nonstick. This is where the real art of frying an egg on carbon steel comes in!
Following Jed's reviews I bought a Strata 12" pan, seasoned it properly several times so it looks beautiful, dark bronze inside. But for my own egg test it did no better than a property prepared and preheated 3-clad SS skillet. I still like the Strata skillet though. I bought it for 40% off on their website where they had a good sale on skillets with minor cosmetic imperfections, but on my examination, when this pan arrived, I saw nothing wrong with it at all. So may be that's a way to buy Strata if you don't want to fork out $150 for just one pan. Mine did cost me around $90. It weighs about the same as Sam's Club 3 ply SS skillet so it is way easier to use than a 12" Matfer carbon steel or Lodge cast iron I use in my kitchen.
Btw, instead of using seed oil like the guy in a most popular comment under this video said, do bacon in that skillet first and then add butter, or to make it more pristine, use a bit of ghee or clarified butter as a base fat (instead of seed oil) and then add butter. This raises the smoke point of this fat mixture by about 100 degrees F and still gives you a classic taste of butter fried egg. Tried and true method both on carbon steel or stainless!
I use AMT from Germany. Best pan in the world.
Are you talking about non stick pans? The point of this channel is to teach you how to do it without a non stick coating.
@@Visitkarte wait .. aren't these seasoned? Doesn't that count as a non stick coating?
@@H4KnSL4K no. The non stick pans have „forever chemicals“ in them. Seasoning only contains polymerized (trough heat) natural cooking oil.
Have both but want my fried eggs pure white, no browning. Much easier on a teflon pan but really want the teflon out of the house.
My own experience is if you like eggs white, just use a lower temp to cook them. Around 275 to 290 at most. The eggs won’t stick and you can get that goldilocks egg you want and without Teflon, without butter (you can use if you wish). Just a little practice. My experience is in a Debuyer pan. I’m awaiting a Strata and I suspect there will be a learning curve. Keeps the grey cells working….
For folks who don't always treat their pans right (or have housemates/kids who might make "mistakes") the lighter pan will be easier to warp. nothing a rubber mallet won't fix, but it's technically a point.
I think the fact that this is a clad pan might make it better at not warping, but not sure on that, you know due to it's heat evening out ability.
I already made a video where I tried to warp a Strata pan. No dice.
So they combined the low heat retention of an aluminum skillet with the highly reactive cooking surface of a carbon steel skillet. Worst of both worlds ...
I don't use cast iron / carbon steel because I like taking care of the patina, having to put more effort into maintenance or have worse non-stick properties compared to Teflon. I use them because they ARE heavy which results in more heat capacity (and a certain heat radiation effect). Replacing carbon steel with aluminum to save weight results in losing the main reason why I use those heavy things.
DeMeyre makes a stainless steel skillet with aluminum core that has a heat retention close to cast iron. Guess how much that thing weighs - the same as a heavy carbon steel or a light cast iron skillet. Storing thermic energy in a metal vessel requires mass. Mass can only replaced by even more mass.
I'm the first one to agree with you. Weight is quality. But, I've dealt with loads of people that want iron results without the weight. They just can't manage it. This is why this pan is a win, BUT as I try to be super clear about, it does not replace my solid iron and carbon pans. It's an excellent alternative to those who need it.
Aluminum actually has higher heat retention per lb than iron so an equal weight aluminum pan would be better than steel or cast iron. There is a range where an aluminum pan would be both lighter and have more heat retention. Below that weight range the aluminum pan it has less heat retention but even lighter weight than the iron or steel. Most aluminium containing pans are in that range of maximizing lower weight, one exception as you noted being the Demeyere Proline pans.
@@Cook-Culture I don't doubt there's a market for that skillet. Otherwise, it wouldn't exist. But to me, it combines the disadvantages of both materials, not the benefits. Still, due to the YT hype of cast iron and carbon steel, that skillet makes some sort of weird sense.
@@paulgraham2314 I agree. But the higher heat retention per lb is again countered by the weight to volume ratio. To get an aluminum skillet heavy enough to retain heat like 2,5 - 3 mm carbon steel, it has to be much thicker. As shown by the DeMeyre Proline skillets with their extremely thick walls. In the end, there's no ideal solution. The skillet has to be heavy (steel) or slightly lighter but very thick (aluminum core) if you want good heat retention. And that's the main reason why I use cast iron and carbon steel.
Why is heat “retention” a good thing? Isn’t the point of any pan to get the heat into the food being cooked? What good is it for the heat to remain in the pan? Remember the whole conservation of energy lesson from school? If the heat energy is still in the pan, then it can’t be in the food. If the pan cools quickly when you add food, that’s a good thing because that energy had gone into the food. As long as the heat distribution is even, you want faster transfer of heat to food. That’s where most aluminum pans fail is the uneven heat distribution due to its high thermal conductivity and being thin at the same time. Cooking with a reactive pan requires a different technique than with heavy cookware. You adjust as the situation changes but now you don’t have to anticipate for the slow response. Like if you sear a steak, don’t crank the heat really high first, just get it hot enough, throw in the steak, then increase the temp to counter the heat being sucked up by the steak. It is easier to burn stuff with a reactive pan true, but that’s like saying it’s easier to get a speeding ticket with a Ferrari than a Prius. That’s a skill issue, not a pan issue.