I am Italian but I live abroad. When me and my dad make modifications to the house (adding Ethernet cables or adding more power outlets), we always add flexible conduits, as they are so useful. Even if you don’t need the cable anymore, you can take it out, reuse it whilst leaving the conduit in the wall so that if you ever need a new wire there you can always add it.
This. Most houses will live long enough to have the wiring become outdated and re-done at least one time, probably several times... which is so much easier with conduits
Not a fan of conduits. Use to do a lot of them back in the 1980's, and they need huge holes through studs (weakening framing), added material cost, and added complexity. Dont forget labor time to drill larger holes, reinforcement of studs, time for a double pull. It's pretty easy to add wires post construction in the US using the attic/sub floor space and long flex drills. Given a choice, i dont use conduit unless its in an unaccessible area, like under a slab to an island. Did a couple jobs where conduit was run horizontally in every wall for power and ethernet. Was a pain and doubled the install cost. Just put outlets every 2.5M, Wifi, and your done.
The conduits are colour coded in Italy by Normative CEI 64-8 e 64-100/2 (italian equivalent to UK Wiring Regulations) such as: 1) Black(or gray) for power distribution 2) Green for telephone lines, smart home, SELV, data, terrestrial TV and satellite. For the last two (tv and data) white conduit can be also used. 3) Blue for audio/video and intercoms. Even in this case purple can be used only for audio distribution. 4) brown for intruder alarms and technical alarms 5)Purple in a smart building installation used exclusively for hi-fi audio distribution. So the builder there, either didn't explain very well or he just used whatever he had in the back of the van.
@@deps314 Many thanks for that detail. Yes I have Black LIVE and a very messy distribution board. Been trying to find and english speaking sparky here in Italy to comment upon it.
@@flixmyswitch Do not forget, that when you are dealing wit ALTERNATING current, that the black (live/hot) and white (neutral) wires both have electricity flowing to and through them on an alternating cycle. That means that the neutral wire is just as hot as the hot wire.
As a user of italian houses I must say that while some of those coloured conduits are nice looking, pretty much all of them are always too small for any meaningful expansion or future proofing :( 3.5cm and 60º turns should be the minimum electricians put in considering we're not in the 900s any more and the tech that can go in a house these days can be quite varied.
Very similar here in France. Use of Flexicon meant meant I could get fibre installed to the lounge just by pulling in the cable using the old TV antenna coax wiring as a draw-string and changing the face plate. Really handy!
Cheap flexible conduits are horrible for pulling stuff through, it keeps getting stuck on all sides. Non-flexible conduit is a lot easier. At least, that's my experience in my own home, had to completely remove a flexible conduit and replace it with non-flexible in order to actually get cable through it. I thought it would be easier. Boy, was I wrong. There is good flexible conduit though, with a smooth tube on the inside. But the cheap stuff is just really bad.
@@StCreed Just tape your new cable onto your old cable and make sure you cover the whole joint.. That way it's just a smooth wire being pulled through.
Seems very labor intensive just incase you want to add something later. I guess maybe the mafia had something to do with that. The thing about earth ground it is more for lightning strikes not for grounding for appliance protection against accidental contact with live wire. The single phase wiring in the States (120v/240v) joins the earth/appliance ground at the first panel ( after meter) to the common wire (split phase). I would assume it is the same everywhere but not sure about 3 phase wiring as that is used primarily in manufacturing.
@@2loco My apartment came with some extra pipes with just a single wire in them, which you can use to install whatever you want. I had one running to the kitchen and one to the bedroom. Didn't need the one in the kitchen, used the one to the bedroom to pull a network cable. I also replaced the phone cable to the living room with both a phone and network cable. So not a daily occurrence, but exceptionally convenient when the need arises.
A bit of precisations while watching the video: 1) you need an rcbo within 3 meters from the power meter, as it does not act as a protective device. We usually place a delayed 300mA. 2) Shower alarm is not mandatory unless the bathroom is designed for disabled people too. 3) outlets have to be 0,6m outside the perimeter of showers and similar 4) backboxes are indeed universal for all the manufacturers. 5) running the cables vertical is not technically a law, but is enforces widely 6) houses over 400mq or 6kW are reuired to be deisigned by an electrical "engineer", but is usually done also for smaller houses. 7) i actually live with 3kW without any problems. 8) aerial tv system is still the standard 9) the colour code is a bit more complex
Seeing people struggling with the 3kW limitation of Italian power supplies - And noting I seldom (If ever) draw more than 1kW out of my UK supply (13,2kW day, 22kW night; An electrically heated home) at any point - I'm starting to wonder if my energy efficiency is considerably more German than I'd first thought?... ⚡🤏🙃
I can’t imagine living with only 3kw supply! My dryer uses 5.5Kw, the AC uses 3.5kW, and i just switched my water heater for an electric on demand. The water heater alone takes 12kw!
@@stertheder i live in germany, berlin and most of the apartments use electric on demand water heater with 11kW , we can still use the oven and stuff so i think 22kW are more or less the standard
Not the same in North and South Italy for heating and PV. There are strong climate differences! Just consider that plastic materials are special plastic that not propagate fire. The reason why meter is outside is that firefighters can cut the power before enter and start using water. Everything "strange" has a reason for existing.
As someone servicing Italian industrial machines in Israel, I love the Italian electrical system. The design, thought and workmanship is second to non.
@@johnburns4017 The grid in the UK and on the continent are practically identical. The only difference might have been the UK voltage is a bit higher at 240V nominal.
I dunno man I ordered a machine from Italy and when it arrived it needed a main fuse with a higher rating (on the advice of manufacturer). They sent updating drawings same day but as a mechanical engineer I was scratching my head over how it could have an incorrect fuse in the design. Seemed ropey to me
Puglia ❤ Corrugated pipes are a fantastic system: you can pull new wires into the pipes at any moment, to upgrade your wiring. Plus it needs no wall chasing. This system is the norm in Italy: I have helped my electrician father when I was a kid with first and second fixes. Plus we already had RCD or similar installed 40 years ago already. I live in the UK now and I have come to accept that an house rewire will trigger a full house reno between plastering, flooring and painting... 😮 ...surely this can be done better?
Nothing at all stopping you using flexible conduit wiring system in a house in UK. Flat cables are just cheaper, faster and simpler to install. British homes tended to be constructed with accessible voids at ground floor, first floor and roof space, so conduits not really necessary.
Why would you need to rewire a house? Well, I guess maybe if you're Italian and you come butted up to the reality that a 3 kW electrical system is a joke in the modern era.
@@ardgeighw5174 house rewire in the UK is a common theme, mostly because UK tradesmen love re-do instead then fix. Regarding the 3kW in Italy, it's a limitation in entrance to the home, not of the home itself: most italian homes can do more with little to no adjustment.
Never would have imagined you guys would come make a video to a place near me! Very interesting to know about the differences between practices in the UK and in Italy. You chose a great place, the Alberobello area, more broadly Valle d'Itria, with its trulli, is rich of awesome sights. Saluti da Taranto!
I lived in Latiano for 2.5 years as a teen due to my father's USA military career. About 60km from Alberobello. He would drive to Martina Franca for his job a few times each year. Such warm memories I have of southern Italy!
in Italy every electrician must certify that the system created is installed “a regola d’arte" in a workmanlike manner. This means that, even if the standard provides for a type of installation, the electrician can choose not to settle because according to his logic the implementation is not safe enough. So, I believe that in Italy we have (at least in this) the electrical systems among the safest in the world
Se non fosse che quella è la teoria.. poi quasi ogni italiano mette mano/fa mettere mano all’impianto in maniera del tutto “raffazzonata”. Per la serie “tanto non devo vendere, non mi serve sia a norma di decreto regio” oppure “tanto non ci devo vivere io, l’inquilino non smonta di certo l’impianto per controllare. Fai affinché vada e non preoccuparti del resto”.
@@Cipollino93 certo, finché non succede un casino, magari un incendio o qualcuno si fa male, l'assicurazione (o addirittura i pompieri) fa peritare l'impianto e lo trova manomesso: risultato, l'assicurazione NON PAGA (e magari si rischia pure il gabbio)... certo, poi ognuno fa quel che crede, ma è come cambiarsi da soli le pastiglie dei freni: io preferisco farlo fare a chi lo fa (bene, ovviamente) di mestiere.
@@Cipollino93 ... è vero, ... Ho visto cose inimmaginabili...! ... qualche volta ho persino trovato la fase col filo giallo verde, prese di potenza (lavatrice) col filo da 0.5, collegamenti col cavo marrone che entra in una tubazione, ed esce di un altro colore, ...perché è stato giuntato all'interno del tubo corrugato, ... ... mi è stato detto : "quello avevo"...!
I am a builder in Australia and I teach building part time at a technical college. I am very impressed with the electrical installation shown in this video. Regards, Geoff. Reeks
I live in Bologna at the moment. The standard power supply in Italy is 3kW, 6kW is considered a luxury upgrade. That means we couldn't use our 3.2kW Kettle from the UK without tripping the main breaker. It's a constant juggling act to make sure we don't switch on a high power appliance while another one is running. We can use either the hob, dishwasher, over or washing machine, but never two at once. It's a pain, but most Italians consider this completely normal. The electrical installations in houses older than 10 years is generally shockingly bad for a western European country. But again, it's considered normal for the most part.
So like the equivalent of 25 amp service in the states at 120v here? This is crazy. I'm over here plotting how to upgrade from 200A (24,000watts) to 400A....
Need power assist function from victron ESS? How do you get on with export of solar? I thought it was bad here when grid company only allowed 3.6kW from a 12.6kWp system, just increased it to 5kW. Customer is going to see how it goes when we finally get permission to fit ev charge point but may consider increasing batteries. It is only 12kWh while we wait to get 4th BYD LVS battery then see what data looks like to decide. What about charge points no 7.5kW units no 22kW?
For comparison, houses built in the 80's in China has around 6kw. Nowadays, it's typically 9.6kw. Private residential flats in Hong Kong typically has ~20kw.
Just bought an apartment in Italy as a vacation home which needs a bit of renovation. As a technologist, so happy to see that you covered this topic on Italian builds!
one of the reasons that limited the base power to just 3kw in italy was the tariff system: the price of energy per kilowatt was proportionate to the so called "potenza impegnata" (contractual max power), and was progressive on the basis of cumulative consumption over the two-monthly tariff period. Now the pricing tends to have only a fixed share proportional to the contractual max power, and a fixed price per kilowatt-hour (P x kWh)
Indeed, nowadays the "quota potenza" (power quote) which is a fix price that you have to pay to the distributor for the maximum power that you can absorb from the grid is lower than before and if you consume a certain amount of energy becomes irrelevant to the total price that you have to pay. I moved from 3kW to 4.5kW and I have to pay only 25€ more per year, which is priceless because now I can run appliances together (ex. Washing machine and dishwasher) or use both air conditioning motor at the same time, or charge the car way faster if needed during the day.
3 kW is not enough even for cooking! In Greece we used to have a minimum of monofase supply of ~ 6 kW but nowdays most of the new appartments get a 3fase supply of approx. 18 kW which is suitable or simultanuous use of Heat pump, cooking , laundry, lighting etc. The use of flex conduits is common of course but the common practice is to install cabling and flex together from the beginning and not to pul cables afterwards as it is not convenient due to sharp turns etc. In traditional buildings , we have similar constructions as the truli of Alberobelo, where we are obliged to put everything under the flooring there is no alternative. Nevertheless, is buildings with possibilities of false ceiling we avoid mixing cabling and plumbers piping. Cabling under the flooring is our last choice and not the best. The weakest point of our installations are the numerous junction boxes all over the house. In the past it was obliged for those boxes to be leveled at the plaster surface so to be able to see them and easy to open. Today we have too many boxes and also ...architects who would become sick with junction boxes all over the walls, so the boxes are dissapeared under some centimeter of plaster
@@pantelissiokos8139 Netherlands here. Jujst 3kW for an entire home would sound insane here. Every new home has 3 phase to the power distribution in the home (or capable of it if for some reason the outside is still old and has no 3 phase to the home) and I can do anything at the same time. Any new home also includes a special plug (which is just 2×1phase joined and never 3 phase just pulled through for some reason) called Perilex always installed in a so called "cooking group" on the distribution board. That alone can pull somewhere around 11kW (for electric stove with oven). Normally 230 volts at 16 amp per group, you may use 3500 watt per group. (Officially it is 220, but for various reasons in practice now 230, sometimes even 240). I think older homes or homes where the wiring to the home is older they can get up to 8kW (35A, but can also be 25 or 40) on 1 phase, I have 3×35A. If you want heavier stuff and have very high power usage (daily sauna, electric stove, heatpump, home battery, solar etc) you may need more and can run into limits so then you do have an issue with max draw and have to request heavier breakers, 3×40, 3×50 or even 3×80A, but this will come at your expense, may be turned down, and if you need a new meter you will pay for it in full. So there is a max power but you gotta try hard to get there. Pulling cabling after the fact is rare and not every home is built that way. All goes in the wall, or if not possible (like in my apartment) it goes in the added false ceiling, expressly _never_ under the floor.
In Italy, from mid- late 1960 we were using plastic rigid conduit and solid core cable, then we switched to flexible conduit & flaxible cable in the early 1980s
My experience with flexible conduit is pretty bad, if you want to run additional cabling. But it's easier to install. I guess that's advantage is for the builder, not so much the user.
why use piping that has ridges, I would think it would be easier to pull the wire through smooth pipes. is there an advantage to using the ribbed tube?
@@robertharvey8054he corrugated pipes are only knurled mainly for two reasons: 1) they cling to the wall and mortar and do not slip when used for small stretches 2) they do not choke when bending We in Italy usually use a dielectric lubricant to thread the cables in the pipes, in any case during the insertion phase if you do two (one pulls and one pushes) the cables flow without problems, there are pipes like those shown in the video which are called cable ducts where there is a smooth internal layer and a knurled exterior but start from the 40mm section But remember that in Italy rigid cables were used until the 80s, in fact in some old houses they are still there, then soft cables were used and for that knurled pipes
Nice video! I recently remade the electrical system of my flat built in the 60s, when they still used solid copper wires and no earthing... My electrician was able to fit a 6mm2 power line from the meter up to the 4th floor. Everything is electrical in the flat and I can manage with a 4.5kW contract which is 50% more of average Italian homes. I have induction stove (with a 2.7kW built-in limiter), electric boiler and heat pump. I believe the regulation says you can't have an outlet closer than 60 cm from taps.
I'd assume it's 600 mm from showers or baths, like in most European countries. The bathroom zones 0 (inside the shower basin/bath), 1 (directly above the bath/shower) and 2 (600 mm to either side of zones 0 and 1) are fairly universally accepted, zone 3 has been abandoned in all countries I know about.
With flexible conduits, it's so important to use high-quality conduits that don't collapse under the weight of the flooring. Also, they won't disintegrate over time. This is a serious problem in the Philippines. I've actually squeezed conduits here, and they broke apart in a gazillion pieces.
Always interesting to see how other places do things. It's nice to pick up the good ideas, though it can be a bit tricky to buy the products, integrate pieces versus whole systems, and adopt "foreign" methods or products without confusing other people (e.g., inspectors, other trades, future contractors, etc.).
The problem with the conduits it's: they always put them in too small and with too sharp turns, making expandability pretty hard. For decent future proofing they should be at least 3.5cm wide, with nice gentile 60º or more corners (you never know when you'll need a pice of fiber in there), but what you find in the walls usually is 2cm, which means once you have 3 to 5 wires in there you're done. I had surreal conversations with electricians a number of times, but it seems impossible to make them understand that the couple of hundreds bucks they're saving using inadequate size means nothing since every time you gotta add something you will need to break the wall, with all the related expenses.
So true. I had to pull optical fiber to my garage just to have basic 1 gigabit ethernet because there was only one pipe going to it, pretty small and already used for power (in Italy you can't put different voltage circuits in the same pipe unless you use double insulation cables, and double insulation cat5 is thick and flexible as a wooden stick). I broke the fiber two times before finally managing to pull it through in one piece.
Well, keeping different cable separate is just good practice. That's not the issue imho. Indeed I'll go one step further ad say italian rules and regulation on electrical circuits are actually generally sensible and well thought out. The problem aren't the rules, the problem are those doing the job and not being sensible nor slightly forward-looking to have the basic thought that more stuff might need added in the future 🤷♂. It shouldn't matter what and why, it's just the sensible thing to do.
Sono elettricista e vi garantisco che l’idea di fondo è stendere ordinatamente anche i tubi corrugati con adeguate sezioni nei muri, una volta bloccati e murati si procede ad infilare i cavi. É possibile in qualsiasi momento modificare o ad aggiungere cavi, come comandi elettrici aggiuntivi, prese aggiuntive, accensioni aggiuntive, tutto dipende da quanto bene sono stati stesi i tubi. Infatti L’elettricista in Italia fa parte delle figure professionali chiamate Artigiani, e come tale necessità di una certa abilità e non tutti gli Artigiani sono abili allo stesso modo. Ci sono enormi differenze all’interno del nostro territorio e si vedono lavori ottimi e pessimi, spesso le persone in tutto il mondo si accontentano che una cosa funzioni e questo lascia spazio a tanti ciarlatani.
Note that on a technical point the houses in the uk don’t have a standard 23kW supply. The incoming cutout (main fuse) and cable may be rated at 100A but that doesn’t mean the upstream infrastructure can support it. If gas is on site most of the UK domestic properties have been designed with an after diversity maximum demand (ADMD) of a mere 1.5kW which is why heat pumps and car charging will require massive system reinforcement costing many £billions. Only relatively recent developments include for heat pumps and car charging with ADMD’s of >10kW. Distribution design engineer 45 year’s experience.
That earthing electrode ring setup reminds me more of lightning protection earthing than straight electrical. I do appreciate that it can be necessary in poor soil conditions of course. Interesting to see how differently things in general are done in Italy vs Australia.
There are many places in Southern Europe that do not have the luxury of having several meters of moist soil for grounding so a ring system will provide you with the necessary earth ground one needs for safety. Another factor to consider is that if it is extremely a dry area that the electrical system is located it is wise to flood the grounding rod wells with water to maintain the ability to conduct to earth.
Ring electrodes are routinely installed for electricity supplies in the UK. It's what you get when you consult a specialist earthing contractor vs an electrician.
On the volcanic plateau in the North Island of New Zealand it is very difficult to get a good earth connection due to the pumice soils. They run buried earth conductors between power poles to get a better connection. This part of Italy is also volcanic and that may be the reason they do that.
@@PaulG.xyep true! Conductivity test is done before deciding how to install grounding. If the ground is particularly insulating, these systems are used. Sometimes it is sufficient to expose and connecting to a rebar from the armoured concrete foundation!
I was an Architect, in another life. Have worked in South Africa and Portugal. I'm now a Project Manager in the UK, though I have also done wiring designs for Balfour Beatty in various large projects involving wiring harnesses. One thing that I'd insist on would be a suitable draw wire or cord in every conduit. There'd also be a restriction on the bends in conduits under the floor as well as their minimum radius. If ribbed conduits were to be used, I'd want them pre-cabled. You can normally buy this with the cabling inside. I know of the ring earthing, but as I was working on large projects we had to bury earth mats alongside the building. On one project, the owners wanted tarmac parking over the entire area, so I added a large planter area over the mats, with subterranean irrigation to keep the earth damp and water the plants, as it gets very dry in the eastern Algarve. I love to see how others approach problems as you will always learn something
I was surprised by the minimal power supply from the grid. We just built a barn/workshop on our property in the USA. The power to the barn comes from the same transformer that supplies the house so the power company upgraded the transformer to 50 KVA (at my expense, of course). It’s 240 VAC single phase with a neutral (so a 240/120 system). I just discovered your channel. Really like the content and presentation style.
@@Ale-bj7nd The barn probably has a workshop space ,so the power set up assumes the use of power tools welders and machinery. Or they intend to grow dope
I had the same thought - my house has a 200A 240V supply (delivered as 2 x 120 ind a neutral in the weird US fashion ~48kVA), We have 9.5kW of Solar and a 24kW standby generator with an ATS. That's a pretty common setup where I live. The big loads are air conditioning, hot tub heater (I'm in California), 2 x dryers, electric oven etc. I can't begin to imagine living on 3kW, the hot tub heater alone is 4kW.
The barn includes a fully insulated workshop with a 4KW forced air heater and an assortment of power tools. The main portion of the barn will be used to store and work on two recreational vehicles, a 40’ converted motorcoach and a 28’ travel trailer. Both RVs have “50A” shore power connections. In the USA, this is a 240/120V 4-wire supply. I might add a heat pump for the shop and storeroom at some point.
Same in The Netherlands. Only DIY people use them. At their cost, as they find out later when they need to run additional cables through them. There is flexible conduit with a smooth skin on the inside, that version is okay. But all in all I no longer want to use flexible conduit.
@@StCreed Amen to that bro, the only time I used flex I cut it to length and pulled the wires through before installing it above the (removable) ceiling.
I was making installation for a small garage. I used these flexible conduits literally everywhere, connecting every outlet with main electrical box but i did not put wires in them, i left them empty, and the wires were plastered into the wall next to the conduit. Thanks to that i can run f.e an ethernet cable after all the walls are plastered, or some kind of additional wires for garage door, lamps, some kind of antennas - you name it. These conduits are very usefull, but feeding wire through them is sometimes sooo tricky
The trick is to measure out what length of run you need (I.e board to socket or between sockets etc) cut the conduit length you need, lay it out flat in a open space and run your snake down it, then put the cable/cables you want in the conduit in. Then after that install the conduit, this removes the issue of drawing cable in through bends and all the other issues with Flexi conduit when installed.
The trick is to stretch the conduit slightly during tie down and make sure you tie it down to a solid wall with a solid material (I much prefer plaster to clips). This way the conduit won't flex and compress as you're pulling wires through it, and they'll just slide through...
@@IAmThe_RA genuinely though the work the Ukrainian electrical network operators do to repair and rebuild substations, pylons etc is absolutely incredible. When you see what they deal with, I'll never complain again about UK electrical work again! There's been articles and videos on it that are well worth a watch.
In the US, even though we have a TN-C-S supply, it is required by code that we still have ground (earth) rods outside every house and on every power pole in case the combined protective conductor (both neutral and ground) breaks.
In Germany it's the same. Mostly TN-C-S and some TT in rural areas, but you still need to have an supportive earth electrode. For example foundation earth electrode embedded into the concrete foundation of the house. In alternative a soil embedded ring earth electrode as shown here in the video.
Same in Poland as in Germany. Each building should have its own ground with a value less than 10 Ohms. Grounding in the foundation or ring around the building is recommended, and if there is no other option, driving the electrodes into the ground. In Poland, the most common type of network is TN-C-S, but in rural areas it is sometimes TT.
Not every utility pole, but usually at least 4 per mile with higher density residential/commercial/industrial areas getting 8 or more grounds per mile as it allows certain things on the pole to be closer together. Problem is tweakers like to steal the pole ground wires as they are usually 8AWG (8.37mm²) copper which is $$$$. t. utility distribution engineer
Here in Malta, we use stiff white pvc piping. No colour codes. We also use the same pvc piping for plumbing, although we use elbows not bending. they are mostly installed in chiseled gutters in walls which would later be plastered and directly on floors which would later pour concrete or lay dirt before tiling.
@@efixx The various national wiring regs are based on the same harmonisation documents but with so many national alterations they're barely recognisable anymore. Add to that mix what I'd call local customs (materials and methods that are not required by any regs but strongly considered good practice) and you get some very different wiring systems. Examples for those "local customs" would be using capping for T&E in the UK (as far as I know not required but considered proper workmanship) or using conduit rather than cables directly in plaster walls in Austria where I live. Bringing up local isolation for appliances (e.g. cooker switches and fused connection units) in the UK also always makes for interesting discussions. Major differences between Italy and neighbouring Austria are those enormous Italian junction boxes, whereas in Austria you can only have one circuit per junction box, unless you've got a DIN rail with terminals, the Italian love for stranded building wire and the limited use of three-phase in Italian domestic properties. In Austria, most DNOs (responsible for the entire hardware side of supplying electricity, including metering and billing) no longer even offer single-phase supplies and the only one that does only offers them up to 6 kW at no cost advantage over 18 kW three-phase, except for only requiring three 10 mm2 cores instead of five (CPCs are always full-sized and insulated on the continent, size reduction is generally only permitted from 25 mm2 upwards and then only by one size, e.g. 4x25/16 or 4x35/25).
This is a great video. I particularly like how you weren't critical thinking O British is the best etc I love seeing European installations. Flex conduit seems quite a good idea you can replace a cable quite easily.
I love Italy and love the chilled out way, I mean sitting on that wall, no edge protection proper stuff. Not like here where we got told off for having no kick boards on an alloy tower!? Platform was 18" above the floor!! I suppose you could have hammer fall 12" on your steel toe cap....
Thank you for the video. It's very exciting to know about other countrys electrical systems. Here in Brazil, we have the limit of 15kW to monophasic. The brakers hardly ever turns off. Another difference is the solar panels: we don't find in the market diferent powers of 500Wp or 550Wp.
Love the idea of plastic conduit tubing runs, hoover string through & pull cables. Leaving a string line future needs also. Would of been nice to know if triple glasing was required.
we use flexible nylon "fish lines": you push them into the conduit, attach the cables and pull from the receiving end until you see the cable. If you need more, you can pull more cables in one go. This way at the end of the process, only cables are in the conduit
In south Italy I don't think is required triple glazing. I live in the North and double glas is the standard. But there are some climate zones in which is mandatory a triple glas
3.3kW limit can be annoying, on the other side living abroad I have noticed the lack of awareness concerning consumption. I remember a german flat mate convinced the increase in power bills was due to the a little 12W fan in the toilette, when in reality she used the 2kW oven every morning for toasting her bread
When I had my home built here in the southeastern area of the Med I had my electrician do a double system in the home. There is the regular 220 vac system as well as a 120 vac system. I sent in plastic boxes from the states that could be imbedded in the walls and provided the electrician with a sample of 12 gauge wire so he could purchase the appropriate metric size wire. It worked out great since the wire he chose was a bit larger in diameter than the sample I provided him. The outlets are rated for 20 amps 120 volt service. It’s been 17 years here and we have been using a lot of the American appliances and tools with zero issues. As an Architect I designed the 120 volt system to our needs and the electricians here are some of the best and followed my instruction to the letter. I also requested that CATV coax feeds be a pair to each outlet box as well as requesting Cat5e cables to be run as pairs to each box. Everything terminates in the electrical room to termination panels. They are all coded so I know where each one feeds. I can control which room receives TV, Satellite or Security video feed as well as which room receives network and telephone service. Nice and neat all with color coded jumpers.
Having anything from the USAs antiquated electrical system is not wise. They are so far behind they need to to update ASAP. The plugs are terrifying. British, French and German systems are far superior, especially the British fuse-in-plug G type plugs.
@@johnburns4017 what I find wrong with the "German" schuco outlets and plugs is the fact one does not know which part of the receptacle is phase or which is neutral. The American system we know which is which, small blade = phase, large blade = neutral. Ground is the longer of the prongs which makes first contact in the receptacle. There is no marking on the Euro German outlets as to which is phase. Electricians randomly pick a side which will be phase. As for ground, it appears to make contact simultaneously with the other contacts in the receptacle. The only plus side is that the contacts are recessed deep in the outlet. As for the British connectors, not much different from American receptacles, blades are exposed as they make contact with the receptacle contacts. The one item I appreciate is that the plugs are individually fused, thus offering greater protection to the appliance that is connected to the circuit. Back in the ‘70’s one could find fused plugs that had a fuse for both prongs however the plugs lacked a ground connector and were not keyed as to phase and neutral since both prongs were narrow allowing one to inset it wrong. This would be an issue since radio and TV manufacturers went to what is referred as a hot chassis design. This was a bit of a misnomer since the chassis was actually the neutral but could become hot if a non polarized plug or cord set was used on the appliance. Now as for unsafe or obsolete, it’s been in use for decades and the National Electrical Code is being constantly updated for the latest in safety systems. It is however up to the homeowner to update and comply with code. The Code is a basic guideline set up by the US Government. There are many States and municipalities the might have far more restrictive laws than what is stated in the NEC. In the city of Chicago, the code states that all wiring shall be run in metallic conduit to prevent issues of electrical faults causing fires within a structure. Conduit shall be bonded to the ground system of the structure as well as a discrete ground wire will be run within the same conduit to provide a ground to all outlets and fixtures. As for my use here in my home it is limited to small home appliances and power tools only since the rest of the ancillary equipment has been purchased here in the EU and runs on 220 volts. If anything the government owned distribution network has far more problems with antiquated and or tired second hand equipment that the politicians purchase from Germany. The network cannot handle the load that is placed on it since politicians have been pushing for more electric heat pumps and cooling systems for homes. Both wiring and transformers in the network are old and undersized for todays loads.
@@Subgunman _"The only plus side [Schuko] is that the contacts are recessed deep in the outlet."_ ▪The German schuko outlets and plugs are *inferior.* ▪You do not know which part of the receptacle is phase or which is neutral. ▪There is no marking on the Euro German outlets as to which is phase. ▪Electricians randomly pick a side which will be phase. ▪As for ground, it makes contact simultaneously with the other phase and neutral contacts in the receptacle. In British type G plugs, the ground make contact first and last to break contact. ▪The plugs are *not* individually fused. ▪Dirt accumulates in the Schuko recess. Housewives squirt in cleaner to clean them. Oooops. A negative point. ▪The prongs are flimsy. ▪British pins are insulated so fingers cannot touch phase and neutral. ▪You cannot touch the earth connector on a socket in a British plug unlike in a Schuko. ▪The British sockets are switched. ▪The British system is polarised, as is the French, unlike the German.
actually the 6kw (or 3kw) monophase standard are just the "committed power" on paper. Contractually the power is ALWAYS +10% higher without limits compared to the nominal value, and +40% for three hours a day, so a 6kW system is actually a 6.6kw effective and 8.4 kw for three hours a day (3.3kw/4.2kw for a basic 3kw of course). A 20kw three-phase system like the one in the video is in fact a 22kw system with 28kw allowed for three hours a day
I'd love to see the US use more conduit in residential installs. It's a pain to try to do any sort of rewiring because the wires are stapled inside of the walls.
Same in Canada, I wanted to get some network cables from one room to another across a hallway in my condo, like 6 foot linear distance to cross. Doing anything in the walls would have required many holes and drywall rework and hiring a professional, so I cut a hole in the ceiling of the closets on either side of the hallway, installed a low voltage bracket brushed cable pass-through, and stuck some plenum rated networking cable up there. Inside the rooms themselves, any cable runs I have to do with just plastic trunking along the baseboards, but at least there's no wires crossing the hallway! When they built the place a little over 20 years ago, nobody made any thought about data networking. How I wish this place was fully wired with ethernet cable! Nope, you just get electrical, telephone, and coax for TV, nothing else and no provision for future expansion.
@@guspaz Yep. If you're lucky, the electrician hired to wire the house installed at least CAT5 for the telephone wires. In that case, you just swap out the RJ11 jack for an RJ45. My in-laws house was that way. But that's still just CAT5, so it's technically only rated for 10/100 and not gigabit. But in most cases, gigabit works just fine.
@@guspaz Yep, need to get through the floor to the basement to replace furnace signalling cable - still did not find a way. Don't want to cut the drywall ...
Using flex conduit seems like an incredibly tasking way to pull wiring in. Trying to account for all the circuitry needs and pulling all the wiring needed in one pull is not easy even if you have wide radius bends. I would love to see a video on their technique. Solid conduit with smooth surfaces inside along with wire lube is still a bear to pull wiring in with a tugger, I can't imagine this is any easier in this residential application.
@@25566 Yes, I know how to do it, I'm an electrician in the US, but it's still a task to pull multiple wires through a small conduit, especially multiple times.
Keep in mind that in Italy the electrical cables used are stranded and easier to pull than the solid ones (solid ones are not a standard from the 80s); moreover a well built system should have a lot of flexible conduit, like the one in the video, and only a few wires runs in each conduit (3/5 14awg wires in a 3/4inch conduit ), so it's very easy to pull the wires and lube is rarely used in a new installation.
I seen that setup a lot working in Spain. There’s some stuff they do that I hate but some ideas are really good. We could do with paying a bit more attention to what other countries do, it’s a balancing act though with the differing construction methods for buildings in each country.
My house in Calabria has a 3kW supply, but they fitted a 32A breaker on the main board, but a 16A breaker at the remote meter location... Yep, I have a long walk when it trips ~ I really must have the house one changed down to a 16A and hope it trips first... I don't know who to contact to have the 32A reduced. Amazing jhow you become used to the small supply, and remember what to turn on/off for the right combination.
16 A sounds little. How does one run even a stove? Or are they all gas? Houses in Finland typically are 3x25 A or 3x35 A. In Finland the main fuses are sealed. You need to ask permission to change them. Breakers are not allowed as with enough current they might fail and not break the circuit.
@@okaro6595 we have to turn on/off to manually share the power. We use steamers instead of electric hob most of the time and turn off aircon to cook. You can upgrade to 4.5kW or 6kW for a higher standing charge, but not worth it for us as a little used holiday home. If we lived there more of the year, we would have gas for cooking…l but electricity is easier for holidays…. 16A is fine for 3kW as you only max at 13A anyway
@@okaro6595 usually we just get used to it and don't turn the stove on with the oven, or AC, etc... With solar it's a lot less of a problem as I can have 3kW in from the mains, 3kW from the batteries, and 5kW from the panels during the day. During the night I still have 6kW total which is fine for most things, it's almost never a problem. But it would be nice to have a 10+kW mains connection in the first place lol. Maybe someday the laws will get updated
The basis of the electrical system is very similar here in the western part of Europe, it only differs in the details. I live in the Netherlands, older house often have single phase 35A at 230V, that's 8kW. Newer houses are on 3 phase standard, many home owners of older properties have their supply improved to 3 phase as well. I do have a three phase connection rated at 3x25A at 230V which theoretical gives me 17kW, not sure if the grid transformer is up to that for the whole street. With the growth in PV on houses, heat pumps and electric car chargers overloading the supply network is becoming a real issue here in the Netherlands. The government wants us all going in that direction by raising taxes on natural gas and other fossil fuels and at the same time promoting E-cars and heat pumps with grants. But nobody in the government thought about the supply network which needs to be improved to bear this load. So the network companies are on their own till now and now the government realises that tax money has to be pumped into strengthening the network as well to make their ambitions on CO2 reductions real. Some countries take measures to discourage peak loads, like in Belgium where you pay tax depending on the highest load taken form the supply at any given moment during the year, other countries give grants for PV panels and home batteries, this way people are encouraged to spread loads more evenly over the day, maybe helped with smart energy management systems which can for instance switch your dish washer or hotwater tank on when the PV panels deliver a surplus of energy.
I upgraded supply from 3 to 4.5 kW for my home in Italy in 2009, when I installed a heat pump (air to water with floor heating) and a PV system 5 kW with good slope and orientation. Despite here in the north it isn't so warm and sunny as in the south (design T for heating is -7°C for Brescia, 1h east of Milan), I had no real issues or need to further upgrades. 4 in family, 180 m2, induction for cooking, solar thermal panels + separate heat pump for DHW, heating recovery ventilation with active dehumidifier (3rd heat pump) and even a pre-existing air conditioner that I go on using in combination with all the rest (chosen not casually, but for being the first with COP>5)... In other words, with very efficient stuff 4.5 kW is definitely enough
So do you have to manage and juggle power? I have 4.8Kw to my laundry room and have to be careful to not exceed it. Have seen peak loads of 15kw when the ASHP + 7kw EV charger + induction stove and maybe a washing machine or dishwasher.
I think conduit works over there because the buildings are mostly masonry they used to use the hollow clay bricks for partitions and could chase condit into these brick. Sound like they are using partitions?
Helpful video the idea of viewing masses of conduit to serve single sockets takes some getting time to adjust. Sure those coloured conduits purple for selv and green for earth, red power, with brown, white and cream wholesalers choice. One thing I found they all keep the pine martins from nibbling on your cable.
As someone who's not a spark, if you exclude the cost aspect I think that having RCBOs for each circuit is way better than "old style" split load systems as if an appliance craps itself and starts leaking loads of current to earth, with an RCBO setup, you just lose that one circuit, rather than half of your circuits with a split load system. For sparks called out for a fault finding job, it must make their job easier if a system has RCBOs for each circuit
The last three properties I've specced all have RCBOs, and I would not have anything else for the very reason you mention. Split RCDs are a nightmare in many ways. Cumulative leaks over multiple circuits causing nuisance trips, poor fault isolation and identification, and half the power disappearing with a trip. I've only ever had an RCBO trip when there was a genuine problem. They should be mandatory in my view. Another couple of hundred pound on an installation that costs several thousand in labour. It's money well spent.
I've installed emergency lights in my home just at the top and bottom of the stairs, I've also installed a smoke detector system as I think safety is important in a residential home.
Flexible conduit makes more sense in countries where the electrical installation is done entirely in flexible cable (class 4 or 5). That's how we do it in my country. UK's wiring is usually class 1 or 2, right? It would be a pain to get those kind of wires through the conduit.
In Germany we used conduit in the past (flexible as well as smooth rigid) and we indeed use solid core wire. Unfortunately, we are only allowed to run a single breaker (circuit) in in one conduit, so for space and cost reasons they started to use simple double insulated wires (NYM, individual singls cores with an additional common sheathing) wiring. These days we have NYM directly concreted into the wall and there is no way to add even a single switched wire afterwards since there is no conduit in walls (except in concrete where it is mandatory). I still do it as shown in the pictures - one has to be careful to make the corners smooth enough though.
All very familiar. I built a house in France and the sytem is very similar. Like the fact that you can run single wires of various colours whi helps with identification.
I think more places should use 3phase for residential power over a certain power supply, I know of a few situation where it would have been super handy, plus it makes balancing loads on the grid alot easier too with not loading one phase more than the others, please correct me if I'm wrong on that one
Very interesting how things can be so different here in the United States, most of our residential installs are Romex cable which I'm not a fan of at all. I work in the commercial side doing HVACR work and almost all of my work is done in actual emt metal conduit and or flexible conduit but it's always ran in the walls and ceiling ....
@@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818 Why exactly do you say that Romex sucks? It is perfectly suited for what it has to do, and I think it will last as long as the house, or at until the next strip to the studs renovation. Not many Americans are going to pay for conduit when the benefits seem so small. Seriously curious why you hate Romex.
whit new contracts we are allowed to use more power than the rating, but it also depends from the amount and the time. If the contract is 3KW, you can use 3.3KW indefinitely or 4.2KW for a minute. if you go over 40% the meter will disconnect in 3 seconds. Our standard contract is 3KW, but until a few years ago we used natural gas or diesel to heat our homes and make hot water, and also AC units where not an usual thing to have in houses, so usally it was more than enough for the oven or hairdryer. Nowadays you can run a 12000btu ac unit and a clothes dryer whit 2.4KW, so plenty of room for everything else (exept water heating devices and hairdryer) funny thing is that we can ask for more power, 6Kw max single phase but nobody does that unless really needed, because you increase your bill fixed costs.
Plenty of room? You can't play video games when you have AC running and your wife is cooking. 3 KW is not enough, not even if you are single. I used to live in Italy, now I am in the UK and it is another world. Never a disconnection, you run what you want. The Italian electric grid sucks.
@@biomorphic yeah, electricity costs around 0,5€/Kw, so usually you don't want to consume it 🤣. As I said, using natural gas for heating and cooking, you usually end up whit a 200-400w mean consumption. Also consider that all the lights we use are led ones, so If I sum them all up I get like 120w total for the entire house. I don't know what video games you play, but if that causes problems, you bought a space heater, not a console/pc🤣. Anyway, last week I've cabled a new house that's going to have a 6Kw contract. Just because they want to install an induction stove in the kitchen
Indeed my PC was almost enough to heat my small studio in London. It probably sucks near 600 watt at peak. And today, if you run a 4090, probably you need 750. I am aware about Italy, I used to live there most of my life. I can assure it is much better having all the power you need. In the UK I don't have to worry about what I run. In Italy I spent 700 Euro on a UPS due to frequent disconnections and blackouts. Here you don't need one. @@cmh-re
From the UK but I've lived in different parts of Italy and only recently discovered why the power trips so easily, and it seems crazy that 3kW is normal there, but I'm glad to see that's changing with new builds & renovations, especially with things like domestic 7kW car chargers becoming fairly normal. I've only tripped a breaker once in all my life in the UK, but it seems to be fairly common in Italy - As you said, they get used to turning things back on haha In one place I stayed at there was a Candy Trio, which is hob/oven/dishwasher combo taking up no more space than a standard oven, however I was told to keep the dishwasher door open when it wasn't running because otherwise it could cause the power to trip. Also touching the metal interior I would sometimes get shocked, so I'm not sure if there was an earthing issue. I believe they use the schuko plug on bigger appliances out there, so it should be earthed, but who knows what the issue was there. Also not really related to electrics, but something I've heard about construction in Italy in the past is that they would leave buildings 'unfinished' with poles sticking out of the top of a building to make it seem like it was incomplete and there was another floor yet to be built, when in fact it was to not have to pay a tax which only took effect once a building was completed. I believe this has changed now though and maybe even being retroactively taxed too.
In the last year the power limit to switch from mono-phase to 3-phases system was grow up to 10 kW, to permit to supply isolated house with mono-phase and permitting to their to install correct PV system without change internal distribution system.
It's exactly the same system that in Spain. More protections, a register box in all the rooms and all the cables are installed in conducts. It's the same for a hotel or a restaurant or a flat. Floors and ceilings usually are made of concrete and the dry walls are used only in cheap buildings. They use different sizes of bricks with air chambers and inside are covered with refractory plaster so the warm or the cold keeps inside the room.
Looking at this from Canada this is so strange. Our house was built in 1952 and we had a 100 amp 240v panel. We upgraded it 20 years ago to 200amp 240 two phase. No conduit, just run the wire through the studs.
From a different perspective, I am shocked to learn some houses places may run on 20KW or 10. What do you need all that energy for? 😂 My house in Italy runs on 4.5KW and it is already considered higher than the average which is 3. I also do understand that some may not fully understand the utility billing in Italy. There is portion of the bill based on a montly fee which is tied to how many KW are made available regardless the power consumed. It used to be that above 3KW there was a considerable increment in this portion. Nowadays 4.5KW is a reasonable amount.
Doesn't anyone in Italy have a backyard shed and run power tools and welders for hobby/handyman reasons? Even a modern inverter welder can draw 2-3kw and that would be a problem if anyone else in the household has any substantial appliance running.
@@moth3rfck3r-s4n If needed, you can ask for an upgrade/downgrade (you are billed for this operation, of course): it usually requires 5 working days. Tipically, with the last meters, the breaker trips if the power required is continuously over the maximum (for example, for a 3kW the maximum power available is 3.3 kW) for more than 3 hours.
I see many comments about how crazy is the limitation to 3Kw power in Italy. Consider this: the country has basically no oil/natural gas/coal in the ground, and nuclear power was outlawed by a referendum 30 years ago. Sure we have some good sun and wind and they are used, but still most of the consumed power has to be imported from abroad. If we would allow everyone and their mother to use electric kettles while using the hairdryer and the dishwasher, the country would go bankrupt - it's a form of soft-rationing, you see. You can still ask the electric company to give you 4.5 or 6 or even 9Kw, but it comes at an extra cost. However, even if you have a 3Kw contract, you can still install a € 50 alert that will ring off if you consume more than 3kw and after a while break the circuit before the counter breaker settles in (very useful in the situations where the counter is not inside the flat)
Meters are required to be accessible from the outside of the property for two reasons: one is for safety, for example if there's a fire the firefighters can easily disconnect the electricity supply. The second reason is that the meters are the electricity company's property, and if they need to do maintenance on them they should be accessible without trying to get permit from the owner to enter the house. Many properties were made before this law so it's very common to have the meters inside the house.
Interesting video. I'm in the Emilia Romagna region. We had our house wired 10 yrs ago. The difference between domestic houses in Italy and the UK is that in italy they tend to have concrete ceilings and floors, so its good for running flexible condiit for wiring, whereas in the UK we have floor boards for cable routes. Also we wire from point to point, in Italy they have joint boxes in all rooms that they wire to and wire from. Unlike the UK, in italy they don't have safe zones for cable runs, from the jobs I've seen. They run the flexible conduit horizontal, vertical and diagonal. Electricians use cable locators to trace cables buried in walls, a nightmare when you want to hang pictures on the walls. The only time I've seen an earth system like the one you showed in the video in on commercial and industrial new builds. For a domestic install it's a copper earth rod like the UK. Also the distribution boards used in domestics, that I've come across, don't have a solid bus bar that you can connect the MCBs to. You have to loop the mains supply across the MCBs, which means if you want to add or remove a breaker, you have to isolate the supply. Another point is regarding emergency lighting. I've never seen emergency lighting in any domestic premises that I've visited apart from one house, mine. Because of the amount of power outages in the region, i decided to install them everywhere.
It does make sense running pvs conduits as feedning then later replacing old wires over the years will mean the electrician will be in and out of the home quicker than our UK counterparts. And having them colour coded will mean you'll know what it's for and what is allowed in it too. I think it's something we should adopt for British new builds and renervation work too.
In US is way easier manage cable system since mostly of houses are made with wood and have fake walls, In Italy almost 99% of houses are bricks and concrete in any walls also internal so you must use corrugated pipes anytime since if for any reason like for example you drill the wall and cut the electric cable you need to replace it is easier to pull without break the wall randomly to the whole line wasting a lot of money and time
just to point out a little thing "electricity arrived later than in the uk"...true, but the first powerplant in continental Europe was in Milano, and the all first in Europe (in London) was generating less than 100Kw, the one in Milano 350.
Wow, I lived my whole life with 3kW and honestly always thought they were enough... I understand that power consumption is going high due to e-cars and other appliances, but 20kW are a lot of power! Sadly it's true, here electricity price is very high, after Chernobyl incident citizens voted to shutdown every nuclear power source in a referendum. That was comprehensible, but I think that now people is slowly changing idea about that. Also as mentioned in the video, every new house should have its own solar panels; don't forget that thermal efficiency should be much higher than before... these solutions help with power consumption, but it will take some time to have a full "update"..most buildings are from 1900 to 1980 I think, so... 🙂
Interesting video. How the hell do they know what conduit goes where as nothing is marked up 😂 actually some good ideas especially around the consumer unit !
I am a retired electrician in Chicago. These wiring practices would be a topic of great laughter here. Metal conduit, metal boxes and metal breaker panels are the legal way here. Away from the city, “Romex” (flexible fire resistant cable) is permitted. We only use the flexible plastic tubing for low voltage applications.
Oh yes I can imagine. I lived in Italy for 4 years and worked on Italian built superyachts. The things they can do are mind-boggling, but not in a good way. My brother is a builder married to a 50% Italian and they own several small cottages near Salerno. He finds their general building standards to be appalling, but their specialised work is good.
Incredibly useful video, I've just bought a medieval tower-keep that had it's electricity done in the 1950s and again in the 80s. So I'll be coming back here very often over the summer.
@@efixx Besides needing air conditioning for a good chunk of the year in much of the country, electric ranges (usually a dedicated 50A 240V circuit) and water heaters (often 4.5kW or 5.5kW for storage tank and up to 36kW for tankless instant) are common. Our heat pumps also have resistive backup heat packs of anywhere from 5kW to 25kW. It's also common for houses to have water wells with submersible pumps as the water supply.
wow, that is so odd..... In US, we dont do any conduit in the walls... wire is mounted to the studs... That would make things sooooo simple if needing to change/update/replace wire in the future.... its always a pain to cut drywall away.. our breaker boxes are on the outside of the house and having these split breakers around is crazy... this is so complex....
Im a fan of the flexible conduit systems, for water supplies, with manifolds and for cables. I think that one of the major reasons as to why its its not used in the UK is cost, radial systems are better than ring mains, but the consumer unit is much bigger. British house builders have to be forced to spend money😮😢😊
Radials for socket circuits is _not_ better than final ring circuits. There are great advantages with rings. The British 3-pin plugs with the fuse in the plug, of a max of 13A, makes rings work very well. Proven over 78 years.
@@johnburns4017 Thats a matter of opinion, but the level of control and protection is better with radial as each room and/or fixed appliance can have it's own RCBO so that tripping does not affect all equipement on the ring. It also allows for minimal interruption to the property if work is being carried out.
I'm not seeing any horror stories, just a different culture, a different set of answers to similar questions elsewhere. Wanna hear an electrical horror story? I live in an area where the first electrical systems was installed, Connecticut USA, and I've been in a home that the original gas system was still installed and got to see most of that gas system used as the pipe and tube gas system also ...energized and used as the electrical system so some of the ceiling lights could use gas mantles in some of the lamps and electrical bulbs in some of the lamps. Total guess as to what copper tube is hot, gas filled, both or dead. Either shocking, explodey or nothing. They were in the process of 'modernizing' their 100+ year old family home.
Here in Portugal - also a Mediterranean country - it is pretty similar to Italy. For the longest time, the standard was 3.45 kVA as the contracted power, which translates to 15 A of current. Nowadays, many people switched to 6.90 kVA, which is 30 A of current. This shift is mainly due to the change from gas to electric stoves, the dishwasher became normalize, and many houses installed Air Conditioning units. Moreover, our energy needs - overall in the Western countries - has risen. Heat pumps is still rare in Portugal. But I honestly think that in Europe in general, but specifically in Portugal, we still have a long way to go when it comes to HVAC system installation. I still struggle to find a air exchange system, which brings fresh air into the house, but warms it up before entering the house. Moreover, people still struggle with humidity and do not know how to respond in an effective manner, let alone in an efficient one. All this to say: in this road for efficiency, we need to work and share experiences - like you just did in this video. Thank you so much!
Dutch standard is 230V x 40A = around 9.2kVA. For most applications that's fine. Since I'm using induction I have a double group for the induction plate. And I put the oven + microwave on different groups as well so I can run all 3 together with no issues.
@@StCreed Portuguese culture, for many years, was to save energy as much as possible. Only in recent years did the population evolve into a more consumer-oriented mindset, for energy consumption, among other aspects. With 6.9 kVA I can run almost everything I want - granted it is on a separate circuit. We have 2.5 mm2 cables to power sockets / outlets, and 1.5 mm2 to lighting, and it is mandatory to have separate circuits for a given power demand. In the kitchen, you must have a dedicated circuit to each big appliance: cocktop, oven, washing machine, dishwasher, etc... This avoids running into issues. Nevertheless, I imagine that in colder climate countries, the massive power demand is during the Winter months, right?
Here in Italy my father used to work as an electrician for a few months in his youth and once went to work in an old shed-like house where one particular power point only worked if one particular water tap was open. Yeah, you needed to open the water to make the electric plug work. It was so because (forgive an eventual error from my part, I'm trying to repeat my father's explanation) the plug's ground was grounded to the water's metallic pipe, and the laws of electromagnetism work differently if the water inside stays still or runs through.
I would never have thought that abroad they use wires without the flexible pipes, here in Italy all systems are made like this, and for 20-25 years even the water pipes have been made of plastic inserted in a flexible tube so that they can be replaced quickly.
One advantage of metal, or rigid plastic conduit, is that new cables can be fed through the tubing. In France I tried to run a new single core conductor in plastic flexible conduit, as in this vid. Could not get from one end to the other, as it was blocked, or flattened, along its length.
Three-phase supplies, flexible conduit, and radial circuits as standard is brilliant. Combine that with UK Type-G plugs and sockets, and you'd have the perfect system imo!
Checkout the finished project
🇮🇹 ⚡👉ua-cam.com/video/ISSy8vDxLcw/v-deo.html
I am Italian but I live abroad. When me and my dad make modifications to the house (adding Ethernet cables or adding more power outlets), we always add flexible conduits, as they are so useful. Even if you don’t need the cable anymore, you can take it out, reuse it whilst leaving the conduit in the wall so that if you ever need a new wire there you can always add it.
This. Most houses will live long enough to have the wiring become outdated and re-done at least one time, probably several times... which is so much easier with conduits
@steve1978ger actually house built to Italian standards,will outlive the electrical lines,the owner,his child and the next 10/20 generation to come 😂
Finalmente qualcuno che vede lontano😂la casa è sacra e verrà tramandata ai posteri😂ciao😊👍🏻
Not a fan of conduits. Use to do a lot of them back in the 1980's, and they need huge holes through studs (weakening framing), added material cost, and added complexity. Dont forget labor time to drill larger holes, reinforcement of studs, time for a double pull. It's pretty easy to add wires post construction in the US using the attic/sub floor space and long flex drills. Given a choice, i dont use conduit unless its in an unaccessible area, like under a slab to an island. Did a couple jobs where conduit was run horizontally in every wall for power and ethernet. Was a pain and doubled the install cost. Just put outlets every 2.5M, Wifi, and your done.
@Bill N we don’t build house with studs and drywall…we use concrete … you cannot pull wires trough concrete
The conduits are colour coded in Italy by
Normative CEI 64-8 e 64-100/2 (italian equivalent to UK Wiring Regulations) such as:
1) Black(or gray) for power distribution
2) Green for telephone lines, smart home, SELV, data, terrestrial TV and satellite. For the last two (tv and data) white conduit can be also used.
3) Blue for audio/video and intercoms. Even in this case purple can be used only for audio distribution.
4) brown for intruder alarms and technical alarms
5)Purple in a smart building installation used exclusively for hi-fi audio distribution.
So the builder there, either didn't explain very well or he just used whatever he had in the back of the van.
Do they follow the brown - live, blue - neural, yellow/green - earth or do they use black for live
@@deps314 Many thanks for that detail. Yes I have Black LIVE and a very messy distribution board. Been trying to find and english speaking sparky here in Italy to comment upon it.
The Normativ 64-100/2 is just a recommendation not a must
@@flixmyswitch
Do not forget, that when you are dealing wit ALTERNATING current, that the black (live/hot) and white (neutral) wires both have electricity flowing to and through them on an alternating cycle. That means that the neutral wire is just as hot as the hot wire.
As a user of italian houses I must say that while some of those coloured conduits are nice looking, pretty much all of them are always too small for any meaningful expansion or future proofing :(
3.5cm and 60º turns should be the minimum electricians put in considering we're not in the 900s any more and the tech that can go in a house these days can be quite varied.
Very similar here in France. Use of Flexicon meant meant I could get fibre installed to the lounge just by pulling in the cable using the old TV antenna coax wiring as a draw-string and changing the face plate. Really handy!
Great 👍
Cheap flexible conduits are horrible for pulling stuff through, it keeps getting stuck on all sides. Non-flexible conduit is a lot easier. At least, that's my experience in my own home, had to completely remove a flexible conduit and replace it with non-flexible in order to actually get cable through it. I thought it would be easier. Boy, was I wrong.
There is good flexible conduit though, with a smooth tube on the inside. But the cheap stuff is just really bad.
@@StCreed Just tape your new cable onto your old cable and make sure you cover the whole joint.. That way it's just a smooth wire being pulled through.
@@StCreed The technician poured some washing up liquid into the conduit to lubricate it - no problem. Proper cable lube is also a thing!
Seems very labor intensive just incase you want to add something later. I guess maybe the mafia had something to do with that. The thing about earth ground it is more for lightning strikes not for grounding for appliance protection against accidental contact with live wire. The single phase wiring in the States (120v/240v) joins the earth/appliance ground at the first panel ( after meter) to the common wire (split phase). I would assume it is the same everywhere but not sure about 3 phase wiring as that is used primarily in manufacturing.
Flexible conduit is streets ahead method, upgrade cable in no time at all, no mess, cheaper, less time.
That is nonsense.... after 2-3 bends you will not be able to change/upgrade any wiring...and all the other minuses of italian wiring/systems
Pull it all through in one go with a draw cable, easy really
@@angellino1 in The Netherlands we also use conduits bends are not a problem.
How often does one need to "upgrade" cable? Does cable need to be "upgraded" to keep up with new high speed electricity or something?
@@2loco My apartment came with some extra pipes with just a single wire in them, which you can use to install whatever you want. I had one running to the kitchen and one to the bedroom. Didn't need the one in the kitchen, used the one to the bedroom to pull a network cable. I also replaced the phone cable to the living room with both a phone and network cable.
So not a daily occurrence, but exceptionally convenient when the need arises.
A bit of precisations while watching the video:
1) you need an rcbo within 3 meters from the power meter, as it does not act as a protective device. We usually place a delayed 300mA.
2) Shower alarm is not mandatory unless the bathroom is designed for disabled people too.
3) outlets have to be 0,6m outside the perimeter of showers and similar
4) backboxes are indeed universal for all the manufacturers.
5) running the cables vertical is not technically a law, but is enforces widely
6) houses over 400mq or 6kW are reuired to be deisigned by an electrical "engineer", but is usually done also for smaller houses.
7) i actually live with 3kW without any problems.
8) aerial tv system is still the standard
9) the colour code is a bit more complex
Seeing people struggling with the 3kW limitation of Italian power supplies - And noting I seldom (If ever) draw more than 1kW out of my UK supply (13,2kW day, 22kW night; An electrically heated home) at any point - I'm starting to wonder if my energy efficiency is considerably more German than I'd first thought?... ⚡🤏🙃
@@dieseldragon6756 that's what I think too. No wonder Americans are considered the biggest contributor to climate change pro capita.
I can’t imagine living with only 3kw supply! My dryer uses 5.5Kw, the AC uses 3.5kW, and i just switched my water heater for an electric on demand. The water heater alone takes 12kw!
@@stertheder well, i don't have a dryer so that helps. I live in a place where AC is not required as well. And heating is done from teleheating.
@@stertheder i live in germany, berlin and most of the apartments use electric on demand water heater with 11kW , we can still use the oven and stuff so i think 22kW are more or less the standard
Not the same in North and South Italy for heating and PV. There are strong climate differences!
Just consider that plastic materials are special plastic that not propagate fire.
The reason why meter is outside is that firefighters can cut the power before enter and start using water.
Everything "strange" has a reason for existing.
As someone servicing Italian industrial machines in Israel, I love the Italian electrical system.
The design, thought and workmanship is second to non.
In the Peugeot factory (Vauxhall) in Ellesmere Port near Liverpool, when the French send over industrial machinery, they have to rewire parts of it.
@@johnburns4017 The grid in the UK and on the continent are practically identical. The only difference might have been the UK voltage is a bit higher at 240V nominal.
I dunno man I ordered a machine from Italy and when it arrived it needed a main fuse with a higher rating (on the advice of manufacturer). They sent updating drawings same day but as a mechanical engineer I was scratching my head over how it could have an incorrect fuse in the design. Seemed ropey to me
@@trespire
It was the safety aspects of the wiring, not the voltage.
@@-BuddyGuy C'mon, when it comes to electricity, the Italians are undisputed, is this a sort of sabotaging made in Italy?
Puglia ❤
Corrugated pipes are a fantastic system: you can pull new wires into the pipes at any moment, to upgrade your wiring. Plus it needs no wall chasing.
This system is the norm in Italy: I have helped my electrician father when I was a kid with first and second fixes. Plus we already had RCD or similar installed 40 years ago already.
I live in the UK now and I have come to accept that an house rewire will trigger a full house reno between plastering, flooring and painting... 😮 ...surely this can be done better?
they don't use tubings in the UK??? what kind of shitty system is that lol
Nothing at all stopping you using flexible conduit wiring system in a house in UK.
Flat cables are just cheaper, faster and simpler to install.
British homes tended to be constructed with accessible voids at ground floor, first floor and roof space, so conduits not really necessary.
Why would you need to rewire a house? Well, I guess maybe if you're Italian and you come butted up to the reality that a 3 kW electrical system is a joke in the modern era.
@@ardgeighw5174 house rewire in the UK is a common theme, mostly because UK tradesmen love re-do instead then fix.
Regarding the 3kW in Italy, it's a limitation in entrance to the home, not of the home itself: most italian homes can do more with little to no adjustment.
@@DavideAnastasia exactly, we dont need more usually. i have 6kW in my apartment but its because all my appliances are electric.
Never would have imagined you guys would come make a video to a place near me! Very interesting to know about the differences between practices in the UK and in Italy. You chose a great place, the Alberobello area, more broadly Valle d'Itria, with its trulli, is rich of awesome sights. Saluti da Taranto!
It’s a fabulous area - stay tuned for when we return to this site later in the year.
Tanti saluti da un Grottagliese a Londra.
Bella compà, stappa 'na Raffo! :)
I lived in Latiano for 2.5 years as a teen due to my father's USA military career. About 60km from Alberobello. He would drive to Martina Franca for his job a few times each year. Such warm memories I have of southern Italy!
The next part of this project is now ready 👉ua-cam.com/video/ISSy8vDxLcw/v-deo.html
in Italy every electrician must certify that the system created is installed “a regola d’arte" in a workmanlike manner. This means that, even if the standard provides for a type of installation, the electrician can choose not to settle because according to his logic the implementation is not safe enough. So, I believe that in Italy we have (at least in this) the electrical systems among the safest in the world
Se non fosse che quella è la teoria.. poi quasi ogni italiano mette mano/fa mettere mano all’impianto in maniera del tutto “raffazzonata”.
Per la serie “tanto non devo vendere, non mi serve sia a norma di decreto regio” oppure “tanto non ci devo vivere io, l’inquilino non smonta di certo l’impianto per controllare. Fai affinché vada e non preoccuparti del resto”.
@@Cipollino93 certo, finché non succede un casino, magari un incendio o qualcuno si fa male, l'assicurazione (o addirittura i pompieri) fa peritare l'impianto e lo trova manomesso: risultato, l'assicurazione NON PAGA (e magari si rischia pure il gabbio)... certo, poi ognuno fa quel che crede, ma è come cambiarsi da soli le pastiglie dei freni: io preferisco farlo fare a chi lo fa (bene, ovviamente) di mestiere.
@@Cipollino93
... è vero, ... Ho visto cose inimmaginabili...!
... qualche volta ho persino trovato la fase col filo giallo verde, prese di potenza (lavatrice) col filo da 0.5, collegamenti col cavo marrone che entra in una tubazione, ed esce di un altro colore, ...perché è stato giuntato all'interno del tubo corrugato, ...
... mi è stato detto : "quello avevo"...!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
terra? che terra? chi l 'ha mai vista sta cosa hahahahha@@massimo63
Great video Gordon. Quite enlightening in how an electrical installation in Italy is constructed. Can't wait for part 2👍👍
I am a builder in Australia and I teach building part time at a technical college. I am very impressed with the electrical installation shown in this video.
Regards,
Geoff. Reeks
I live in Bologna at the moment. The standard power supply in Italy is 3kW, 6kW is considered a luxury upgrade. That means we couldn't use our 3.2kW Kettle from the UK without tripping the main breaker. It's a constant juggling act to make sure we don't switch on a high power appliance while another one is running. We can use either the hob, dishwasher, over or washing machine, but never two at once. It's a pain, but most Italians consider this completely normal.
The electrical installations in houses older than 10 years is generally shockingly bad for a western European country. But again, it's considered normal for the most part.
Great insight 👍
So like the equivalent of 25 amp service in the states at 120v here? This is crazy. I'm over here plotting how to upgrade from 200A (24,000watts) to 400A....
@@jdr03272 320A meter enclosure(double lugs) and (2)150A main panels, done.
Need power assist function from victron ESS? How do you get on with export of solar? I thought it was bad here when grid company only allowed 3.6kW from a 12.6kWp system, just increased it to 5kW. Customer is going to see how it goes when we finally get permission to fit ev charge point but may consider increasing batteries. It is only 12kWh while we wait to get 4th BYD LVS battery then see what data looks like to decide.
What about charge points no 7.5kW units no 22kW?
For comparison, houses built in the 80's in China has around 6kw. Nowadays, it's typically 9.6kw. Private residential flats in Hong Kong typically has ~20kw.
Just bought an apartment in Italy as a vacation home which needs a bit of renovation. As a technologist, so happy to see that you covered this topic on Italian builds!
Thanks - hope the renovation goes well.
one of the reasons that limited the base power to just 3kw in italy was the tariff system: the price of energy per kilowatt was proportionate to the so called "potenza impegnata" (contractual max power), and was progressive on the basis of cumulative consumption over the two-monthly tariff period. Now the pricing tends to have only a fixed share proportional to the contractual max power, and a fixed price per kilowatt-hour (P x kWh)
Great info - thanks for sharing
Indeed, nowadays the "quota potenza" (power quote) which is a fix price that you have to pay to the distributor for the maximum power that you can absorb from the grid is lower than before and if you consume a certain amount of energy becomes irrelevant to the total price that you have to pay.
I moved from 3kW to 4.5kW and I have to pay only 25€ more per year, which is priceless because now I can run appliances together (ex. Washing machine and dishwasher) or use both air conditioning motor at the same time, or charge the car way faster if needed during the day.
3 kW is not enough even for cooking! In Greece we used to have a minimum of monofase supply of ~ 6 kW but nowdays most of the new appartments get a 3fase supply of approx. 18 kW which is suitable or simultanuous use of Heat pump, cooking , laundry, lighting etc. The use of flex conduits is common of course but the common practice is to install cabling and flex together from the beginning and not to pul cables afterwards as it is not convenient due to sharp turns etc. In traditional buildings , we have similar constructions as the truli of Alberobelo, where we are obliged to put everything under the flooring there is no alternative. Nevertheless, is buildings with possibilities of false ceiling we avoid mixing cabling and plumbers piping. Cabling under the flooring is our last choice and not the best. The weakest point of our installations are the numerous junction boxes all over the house. In the past it was obliged for those boxes to be leveled at the plaster surface so to be able to see them and easy to open. Today we have too many boxes and also ...architects who would become sick with junction boxes all over the walls, so the boxes are dissapeared under some centimeter of plaster
@@pantelissiokos8139 Netherlands here. Jujst 3kW for an entire home would sound insane here. Every new home has 3 phase to the power distribution in the home (or capable of it if for some reason the outside is still old and has no 3 phase to the home) and I can do anything at the same time. Any new home also includes a special plug (which is just 2×1phase joined and never 3 phase just pulled through for some reason) called Perilex always installed in a so called "cooking group" on the distribution board. That alone can pull somewhere around 11kW (for electric stove with oven).
Normally 230 volts at 16 amp per group, you may use 3500 watt per group. (Officially it is 220, but for various reasons in practice now 230, sometimes even 240). I think older homes or homes where the wiring to the home is older they can get up to 8kW (35A, but can also be 25 or 40) on 1 phase, I have 3×35A.
If you want heavier stuff and have very high power usage (daily sauna, electric stove, heatpump, home battery, solar etc) you may need more and can run into limits so then you do have an issue with max draw and have to request heavier breakers, 3×40, 3×50 or even 3×80A, but this will come at your expense, may be turned down, and if you need a new meter you will pay for it in full. So there is a max power but you gotta try hard to get there.
Pulling cabling after the fact is rare and not every home is built that way. All goes in the wall, or if not possible (like in my apartment) it goes in the added false ceiling, expressly _never_ under the floor.
@@pantelissiokos8139 we use gas for cooking and heating mostly
In Italy, from mid- late 1960 we were using plastic rigid conduit and solid core cable, then we switched to flexible conduit & flaxible cable in the early 1980s
My experience with flexible conduit is pretty bad, if you want to run additional cabling. But it's easier to install. I guess that's advantage is for the builder, not so much the user.
why use piping that has ridges, I would think it would be easier to pull the wire through smooth pipes. is there an advantage to using the ribbed tube?
@@robertharvey8054he corrugated pipes are only knurled mainly for two reasons:
1) they cling to the wall and mortar and do not slip when used for small stretches
2) they do not choke when bending
We in Italy usually use a dielectric lubricant to thread the cables in the pipes, in any case during the insertion phase if you do two (one pulls and one pushes) the cables flow without problems, there are pipes like those shown in the video which are called cable ducts where there is a smooth internal layer and a knurled exterior but start from the 40mm section
But remember that in Italy rigid cables were used until the 80s, in fact in some old houses they are still there, then soft cables were used and for that knurled pipes
Nice video! I recently remade the electrical system of my flat built in the 60s, when they still used solid copper wires and no earthing... My electrician was able to fit a 6mm2 power line from the meter up to the 4th floor. Everything is electrical in the flat and I can manage with a 4.5kW contract which is 50% more of average Italian homes.
I have induction stove (with a 2.7kW built-in limiter), electric boiler and heat pump.
I believe the regulation says you can't have an outlet closer than 60 cm from taps.
Thanks for the info
I'd assume it's 600 mm from showers or baths, like in most European countries. The bathroom zones 0 (inside the shower basin/bath), 1 (directly above the bath/shower) and 2 (600 mm to either side of zones 0 and 1) are fairly universally accepted, zone 3 has been abandoned in all countries I know about.
With flexible conduits, it's so important to use high-quality conduits that don't collapse under the weight of the flooring. Also, they won't disintegrate over time. This is a serious problem in the Philippines. I've actually squeezed conduits here, and they broke apart in a gazillion pieces.
yep, made in china.........
Always interesting to see how other places do things. It's nice to pick up the good ideas, though it can be a bit tricky to buy the products, integrate pieces versus whole systems, and adopt "foreign" methods or products without confusing other people (e.g., inspectors, other trades, future contractors, etc.).
The problem with the conduits it's: they always put them in too small and with too sharp turns, making expandability pretty hard. For decent future proofing they should be at least 3.5cm wide, with nice gentile 60º or more corners (you never know when you'll need a pice of fiber in there), but what you find in the walls usually is 2cm, which means once you have 3 to 5 wires in there you're done.
I had surreal conversations with electricians a number of times, but it seems impossible to make them understand that the couple of hundreds bucks they're saving using inadequate size means nothing since every time you gotta add something you will need to break the wall, with all the related expenses.
They're saving time, and your money is not their problem.
So true.
I had to pull optical fiber to my garage just to have basic 1 gigabit ethernet because there was only one pipe going to it, pretty small and already used for power (in Italy you can't put different voltage circuits in the same pipe unless you use double insulation cables, and double insulation cat5 is thick and flexible as a wooden stick).
I broke the fiber two times before finally managing to pull it through in one piece.
Well, keeping different cable separate is just good practice. That's not the issue imho. Indeed I'll go one step further ad say italian rules and regulation on electrical circuits are actually generally sensible and well thought out. The problem aren't the rules, the problem are those doing the job and not being sensible nor slightly forward-looking to have the basic thought that more stuff might need added in the future 🤷♂.
It shouldn't matter what and why, it's just the sensible thing to do.
Sono elettricista e vi garantisco che l’idea di fondo è stendere ordinatamente anche i tubi corrugati con adeguate sezioni nei muri, una volta bloccati e murati si procede ad infilare i cavi. É possibile in qualsiasi momento modificare o ad aggiungere cavi, come comandi elettrici aggiuntivi, prese aggiuntive, accensioni aggiuntive, tutto dipende da quanto bene sono stati stesi i tubi. Infatti L’elettricista in Italia fa parte delle figure professionali chiamate Artigiani, e come tale necessità di una certa abilità e non tutti gli Artigiani sono abili allo stesso modo. Ci sono enormi differenze all’interno del nostro territorio e si vedono lavori ottimi e pessimi, spesso le persone in tutto il mondo si accontentano che una cosa funzioni e questo lascia spazio a tanti ciarlatani.
Note that on a technical point the houses in the uk don’t have a standard 23kW supply. The incoming cutout (main fuse) and cable may be rated at 100A but that doesn’t mean the upstream infrastructure can support it. If gas is on site most of the UK domestic properties have been designed with an after diversity maximum demand (ADMD) of a mere 1.5kW which is why heat pumps and car charging will require massive system reinforcement costing many £billions. Only relatively recent developments include for heat pumps and car charging with ADMD’s of >10kW. Distribution design engineer 45 year’s experience.
That earthing electrode ring setup reminds me more of lightning protection earthing than straight electrical. I do appreciate that it can be necessary in poor soil conditions of course. Interesting to see how differently things in general are done in Italy vs Australia.
There are many places in Southern Europe that do not have the luxury of having several meters of moist soil for grounding so a ring system will provide you with the necessary earth ground one needs for safety. Another factor to consider is that if it is extremely a dry area that the electrical system is located it is wise to flood the grounding rod wells with water to maintain the ability to conduct to earth.
Ring electrodes are routinely installed for electricity supplies in the UK. It's what you get when you consult a specialist earthing contractor vs an electrician.
On the volcanic plateau in the North Island of New Zealand it is very difficult to get a good earth connection due to the pumice soils. They run buried earth conductors between power poles to get a better connection.
This part of Italy is also volcanic and that may be the reason they do that.
@@PaulG.xyep true! Conductivity test is done before deciding how to install grounding. If the ground is particularly insulating, these systems are used. Sometimes it is sufficient to expose and connecting to a rebar from the armoured concrete foundation!
We have to measure the loop impedance so it works as earth as well. Most of the time tough electricians just water the ground before testing😑
I was an Architect, in another life. Have worked in South Africa and Portugal. I'm now a Project Manager in the UK, though I have also done wiring designs for Balfour Beatty in various large projects involving wiring harnesses.
One thing that I'd insist on would be a suitable draw wire or cord in every conduit. There'd also be a restriction on the bends in conduits under the floor as well as their minimum radius. If ribbed conduits were to be used, I'd want them pre-cabled. You can normally buy this with the cabling inside.
I know of the ring earthing, but as I was working on large projects we had to bury earth mats alongside the building. On one project, the owners wanted tarmac parking over the entire area, so I added a large planter area over the mats, with subterranean irrigation to keep the earth damp and water the plants, as it gets very dry in the eastern Algarve.
I love to see how others approach problems as you will always learn something
I was surprised by the minimal power supply from the grid. We just built a barn/workshop on our property in the USA. The power to the barn comes from the same transformer that supplies the house so the power company upgraded the transformer to 50 KVA (at my expense, of course). It’s 240 VAC single phase with a neutral (so a 240/120 system). I just discovered your channel. Really like the content and presentation style.
Just to know, what appliances so you have in the barn that use all that power?
@@Ale-bj7nd The barn probably has a workshop space ,so the power set up assumes the use of power tools welders and machinery.
Or they intend to grow dope
I had the same thought - my house has a 200A 240V supply (delivered as 2 x 120 ind a neutral in the weird US fashion ~48kVA), We have 9.5kW of Solar and a 24kW standby generator with an ATS. That's a pretty common setup where I live. The big loads are air conditioning, hot tub heater (I'm in California), 2 x dryers, electric oven etc. I can't begin to imagine living on 3kW, the hot tub heater alone is 4kW.
The barn includes a fully insulated workshop with a 4KW forced air heater and an assortment of power tools. The main portion of the barn will be used to store and work on two recreational vehicles, a 40’ converted motorcoach and a 28’ travel trailer. Both RVs have “50A” shore power connections. In the USA, this is a 240/120V 4-wire supply. I might add a heat pump for the shop and storeroom at some point.
EU ask us to reduce consuming for climate change and ucranian war, 6Kw will remain a dream for not rich people.
That was so interesting seeing the different approaches and regulations - thanks!
In the video is not mentioned but we also uses stranded copper wire for installation, generally 1.5mm² for light and 2.5mm² for sockets.
Stay tuned for part 2
In Pakistan we try to use flexible conduit as last option. It's way hard to re-pull cables in it than standard conduits.
So I found in France.
Same in The Netherlands. Only DIY people use them. At their cost, as they find out later when they need to run additional cables through them. There is flexible conduit with a smooth skin on the inside, that version is okay. But all in all I no longer want to use flexible conduit.
@@StCreed Amen to that bro, the only time I used flex I cut it to length and pulled the wires through before installing it above the (removable) ceiling.
@@apveening same here bro. Allways pre-pull the wires through the conduit.
I was making installation for a small garage. I used these flexible conduits literally everywhere, connecting every outlet with main electrical box but i did not put wires in them, i left them empty, and the wires were plastered into the wall next to the conduit. Thanks to that i can run f.e an ethernet cable after all the walls are plastered, or some kind of additional wires for garage door, lamps, some kind of antennas - you name it.
These conduits are very usefull, but feeding wire through them is sometimes sooo tricky
Use the vacuum cleaner hack
The trick is to measure out what length of run you need (I.e board to socket or between sockets etc) cut the conduit length you need, lay it out flat in a open space and run your snake down it, then put the cable/cables you want in the conduit in. Then after that install the conduit, this removes the issue of drawing cable in through bends and all the other issues with Flexi conduit when installed.
@@cal5566 Thats great too but i completely forgot about vaccum hack! i need to try it out
@@maciejpieskasta493 And if you get problem with friction on long runs, you can get lub that is made for cable pulling.
The trick is to stretch the conduit slightly during tie down and make sure you tie it down to a solid wall with a solid material (I much prefer plaster to clips). This way the conduit won't flex and compress as you're pulling wires through it, and they'll just slide through...
I like your ideea to visit other countrys to see how they are doing in electricity, you can have a change of experience, this is evolution 👍
On a mission
@@efixx Try Ukraine 😅
@@IAmThe_RA genuinely though the work the Ukrainian electrical network operators do to repair and rebuild substations, pylons etc is absolutely incredible. When you see what they deal with, I'll never complain again about UK electrical work again! There's been articles and videos on it that are well worth a watch.
In the US, even though we have a TN-C-S supply, it is required by code that we still have ground (earth) rods outside every house and on every power pole in case the combined protective conductor (both neutral and ground) breaks.
Interesting- we are planning a similar video looking at the situation in the US
@@efixx Can't wait to see what you think of our electrical system!
In Germany it's the same. Mostly TN-C-S and some TT in rural areas, but you still need to have an supportive earth electrode. For example foundation earth electrode embedded into the concrete foundation of the house. In alternative a soil embedded ring earth electrode as shown here in the video.
Same in Poland as in Germany. Each building should have its own ground with a value less than 10 Ohms. Grounding in the foundation or ring around the building is recommended, and if there is no other option, driving the electrodes into the ground. In Poland, the most common type of network is TN-C-S, but in rural areas it is sometimes TT.
Not every utility pole, but usually at least 4 per mile with higher density residential/commercial/industrial areas getting 8 or more grounds per mile as it allows certain things on the pole to be closer together. Problem is tweakers like to steal the pole ground wires as they are usually 8AWG (8.37mm²) copper which is $$$$.
t. utility distribution engineer
Here in Malta, we use stiff white pvc piping. No colour codes. We also use the same pvc piping for plumbing, although we use elbows not bending. they are mostly installed in chiseled gutters in walls which would later be plastered and directly on floors which would later pour concrete or lay dirt before tiling.
This is super interesting, not so different to what we do in France btw, and I am impatient to see the next video with the finished house
Later this year - stay tuned. Amazing the differences between countries with a harmonised standard.
@@efixx The various national wiring regs are based on the same harmonisation documents but with so many national alterations they're barely recognisable anymore. Add to that mix what I'd call local customs (materials and methods that are not required by any regs but strongly considered good practice) and you get some very different wiring systems. Examples for those "local customs" would be using capping for T&E in the UK (as far as I know not required but considered proper workmanship) or using conduit rather than cables directly in plaster walls in Austria where I live. Bringing up local isolation for appliances (e.g. cooker switches and fused connection units) in the UK also always makes for interesting discussions.
Major differences between Italy and neighbouring Austria are those enormous Italian junction boxes, whereas in Austria you can only have one circuit per junction box, unless you've got a DIN rail with terminals, the Italian love for stranded building wire and the limited use of three-phase in Italian domestic properties. In Austria, most DNOs (responsible for the entire hardware side of supplying electricity, including metering and billing) no longer even offer single-phase supplies and the only one that does only offers them up to 6 kW at no cost advantage over 18 kW three-phase, except for only requiring three 10 mm2 cores instead of five (CPCs are always full-sized and insulated on the continent, size reduction is generally only permitted from 25 mm2 upwards and then only by one size, e.g. 4x25/16 or 4x35/25).
have you returned????@@efixx
As an italian and an apulian myself... i would never imagined to see a video about our electric wiring.
Very interesting and informative, by the way.
This is a great video. I particularly like how you weren't critical thinking O British is the best etc I love seeing European installations.
Flex conduit seems quite a good idea you can replace a cable quite easily.
I think they really do have some good approaches.
@@efixx Come on I can't wait for the next video :p
I'm italian and i never seen a conduit madness like this.
I love Italy and love the chilled out way, I mean sitting on that wall, no edge protection proper stuff. Not like here where we got told off for having no kick boards on an alloy tower!? Platform was 18" above the floor!! I suppose you could have hammer fall 12" on your steel toe cap....
Thank you for the video. It's very exciting to know about other countrys electrical systems. Here in Brazil, we have the limit of 15kW to monophasic. The brakers hardly ever turns off. Another difference is the solar panels: we don't find in the market diferent powers of 500Wp or 550Wp.
Love the idea of plastic conduit tubing runs, hoover string through & pull cables. Leaving a string line future needs also. Would of been nice to know if triple glasing was required.
We’ll find out in part 2 when we return for the second fix
Only problem I've had with draw strings is they tend to twist around existing cables .
we use flexible nylon "fish lines": you push them into the conduit, attach the cables and pull from the receiving end until you see the cable. If you need more, you can pull more cables in one go. This way at the end of the process, only cables are in the conduit
In south Italy I don't think is required triple glazing. I live in the North and double glas is the standard. But there are some climate zones in which is mandatory a triple glas
3.3kW limit can be annoying, on the other side living abroad I have noticed the lack of awareness concerning consumption. I remember a german flat mate convinced the increase in power bills was due to the a little 12W fan in the toilette, when in reality she used the 2kW oven every morning for toasting her bread
When I had my home built here in the southeastern area of the Med I had my electrician do a double system in the home. There is the regular 220 vac system as well as a 120 vac system. I sent in plastic boxes from the states that could be imbedded in the walls and provided the electrician with a sample of 12 gauge wire so he could purchase the appropriate metric size wire. It worked out great since the wire he chose was a bit larger in diameter than the sample I provided him. The outlets are rated for 20 amps 120 volt service. It’s been 17 years here and we have been using a lot of the American appliances and tools with zero issues. As an Architect I designed the 120 volt system to our needs and the electricians here are some of the best and followed my instruction to the letter. I also requested that CATV coax feeds be a pair to each outlet box as well as requesting Cat5e cables to be run as pairs to each box. Everything terminates in the electrical room to termination panels. They are all coded so I know where each one feeds. I can control which room receives TV, Satellite or Security video feed as well as which room receives network and telephone service. Nice and neat all with color coded jumpers.
Having anything from the USAs antiquated electrical system is not wise. They are so far behind they need to to update ASAP. The plugs are terrifying. British, French and German systems are far superior, especially the British fuse-in-plug G type plugs.
@@johnburns4017 You are full of yourself.
@@jdilksjr
No. I have worked with both. The USA is way behind. The USA needs to catch up quickly, to superior and safer systems.
@@johnburns4017 what I find wrong with the "German" schuco outlets and plugs is the fact one does not know which part of the receptacle is phase or which is neutral. The American system we know which is which, small blade = phase, large blade = neutral. Ground is the longer of the prongs which makes first contact in the receptacle. There is no marking on the Euro German outlets as to which is phase. Electricians randomly pick a side which will be phase. As for ground, it appears to make contact simultaneously with the other contacts in the receptacle. The only plus side is that the contacts are recessed deep in the outlet. As for the British connectors, not much different from American receptacles, blades are exposed as they make contact with the receptacle contacts. The one item I appreciate is that the plugs are individually fused, thus offering greater protection to the appliance that is connected to the circuit. Back in the ‘70’s one could find fused plugs that had a fuse for both prongs however the plugs lacked a ground connector and were not keyed as to phase and neutral since both prongs were narrow allowing one to inset it wrong. This would be an issue since radio and TV manufacturers went to what is referred as a hot chassis design. This was a bit of a misnomer since the chassis was actually the neutral but could become hot if a non polarized plug or cord set was used on the appliance. Now as for unsafe or obsolete, it’s been in use for decades and the National Electrical Code is being constantly updated for the latest in safety systems. It is however up to the homeowner to update and comply with code. The Code is a basic guideline set up by the US Government. There are many States and municipalities the might have far more restrictive laws than what is stated in the NEC. In the city of Chicago, the code states that all wiring shall be run in metallic conduit to prevent issues of electrical faults causing fires within a structure. Conduit shall be bonded to the ground system of the structure as well as a discrete ground wire will be run within the same conduit to provide a ground to all outlets and fixtures.
As for my use here in my home it is limited to small home appliances and power tools only since the rest of the ancillary equipment has been purchased here in the EU and runs on 220 volts. If anything the government owned distribution network has far more problems with antiquated and or tired second hand equipment that the politicians purchase from Germany. The network cannot handle the load that is placed on it since politicians have been pushing for more electric heat pumps and cooling systems for homes. Both wiring and transformers in the network are old and undersized for todays loads.
@@Subgunman
_"The only plus side [Schuko] is that the contacts are recessed deep in the outlet."_
▪The German schuko outlets and plugs are *inferior.*
▪You do not know which part of the receptacle is phase or which is neutral.
▪There is no marking on the Euro German outlets as to which is phase.
▪Electricians randomly pick a side which will be phase.
▪As for ground, it makes contact simultaneously with the other phase and neutral contacts in the receptacle. In British type G plugs, the ground make contact first and last to break contact.
▪The plugs are *not* individually fused.
▪Dirt accumulates in the Schuko recess. Housewives squirt in cleaner to clean them. Oooops. A negative point.
▪The prongs are flimsy.
▪British pins are insulated so fingers cannot touch phase and neutral.
▪You cannot touch the earth connector on a socket in a British plug unlike in a Schuko.
▪The British sockets are switched.
▪The British system is polarised, as is the French, unlike the German.
actually the 6kw (or 3kw) monophase standard are just the "committed power" on paper. Contractually the power is ALWAYS +10% higher without limits compared to the nominal value, and +40% for three hours a day, so a 6kW system is actually a 6.6kw effective and 8.4 kw for three hours a day (3.3kw/4.2kw for a basic 3kw of course). A 20kw three-phase system like the one in the video is in fact a 22kw system with 28kw allowed for three hours a day
I'd love to see the US use more conduit in residential installs. It's a pain to try to do any sort of rewiring because the wires are stapled inside of the walls.
Same in 🇬🇧 Uk
Same in Canada, I wanted to get some network cables from one room to another across a hallway in my condo, like 6 foot linear distance to cross. Doing anything in the walls would have required many holes and drywall rework and hiring a professional, so I cut a hole in the ceiling of the closets on either side of the hallway, installed a low voltage bracket brushed cable pass-through, and stuck some plenum rated networking cable up there. Inside the rooms themselves, any cable runs I have to do with just plastic trunking along the baseboards, but at least there's no wires crossing the hallway!
When they built the place a little over 20 years ago, nobody made any thought about data networking. How I wish this place was fully wired with ethernet cable! Nope, you just get electrical, telephone, and coax for TV, nothing else and no provision for future expansion.
@@guspaz Yep. If you're lucky, the electrician hired to wire the house installed at least CAT5 for the telephone wires. In that case, you just swap out the RJ11 jack for an RJ45. My in-laws house was that way. But that's still just CAT5, so it's technically only rated for 10/100 and not gigabit. But in most cases, gigabit works just fine.
@@guspaz Yep, need to get through the floor to the basement to replace furnace signalling cable - still did not find a way. Don't want to cut the drywall ...
Using flex conduit seems like an incredibly tasking way to pull wiring in. Trying to account for all the circuitry needs and pulling all the wiring needed in one pull is not easy even if you have wide radius bends. I would love to see a video on their technique. Solid conduit with smooth surfaces inside along with wire lube is still a bear to pull wiring in with a tugger, I can't imagine this is any easier in this residential application.
You attach the wires to the guide and just pull, easier if someone helps from the other end by making sure it doesn't get tangled.
@@25566 Yes, I know how to do it, I'm an electrician in the US, but it's still a task to pull multiple wires through a small conduit, especially multiple times.
@@ML-jk3sz I agree I am electrician in Canada and on hard pulls wire lube is necessary .
@@daniellabbe3009 Correct.
Keep in mind that in Italy the electrical cables used are stranded and easier to pull than the solid ones (solid ones are not a standard from the 80s); moreover a well built system should have a lot of flexible conduit, like the one in the video, and only a few wires runs in each conduit (3/5 14awg wires in a 3/4inch conduit ), so it's very easy to pull the wires and lube is rarely used in a new installation.
I seen that setup a lot working in Spain. There’s some stuff they do that I hate but some ideas are really good. We could do with paying a bit more attention to what other countries do, it’s a balancing act though with the differing construction methods for buildings in each country.
Agree 👌
My house in Calabria has a 3kW supply, but they fitted a 32A breaker on the main board, but a 16A breaker at the remote meter location... Yep, I have a long walk when it trips ~ I really must have the house one changed down to a 16A and hope it trips first... I don't know who to contact to have the 32A reduced. Amazing jhow you become used to the small supply, and remember what to turn on/off for the right combination.
Great insight Tomas could be worse places to take a walk 😉
@@efixx Bundy would like it there - he used to be Mr Flexi-King!
16 A sounds little. How does one run even a stove? Or are they all gas? Houses in Finland typically are 3x25 A or 3x35 A.
In Finland the main fuses are sealed. You need to ask permission to change them. Breakers are not allowed as with enough current they might fail and not break the circuit.
@@okaro6595 we have to turn on/off to manually share the power. We use steamers instead of electric hob most of the time and turn off aircon to cook. You can upgrade to 4.5kW or 6kW for a higher standing charge, but not worth it for us as a little used holiday home. If we lived there more of the year, we would have gas for cooking…l but electricity is easier for holidays…. 16A is fine for 3kW as you only max at 13A anyway
@@okaro6595 usually we just get used to it and don't turn the stove on with the oven, or AC, etc...
With solar it's a lot less of a problem as I can have 3kW in from the mains, 3kW from the batteries, and 5kW from the panels during the day. During the night I still have 6kW total which is fine for most things, it's almost never a problem. But it would be nice to have a 10+kW mains connection in the first place lol. Maybe someday the laws will get updated
Love these videos always intreiging to see how other regions tackle the jobs.
Thanks 🙏
Very interesting, it's fascinating to get an insight into how other countries do it. Please feature more countries!
“Other” countries? Really? This is standard everywhere. The entertaining thing would be to show what’s done in the “not other” countries
The basis of the electrical system is very similar here in the western part of Europe, it only differs in the details.
I live in the Netherlands, older house often have single phase 35A at 230V, that's 8kW. Newer houses are on 3 phase standard, many home owners of older properties have their supply improved to 3 phase as well.
I do have a three phase connection rated at 3x25A at 230V which theoretical gives me 17kW, not sure if the grid transformer is up to that for the whole street.
With the growth in PV on houses, heat pumps and electric car chargers overloading the supply network is becoming a real issue here in the Netherlands.
The government wants us all going in that direction by raising taxes on natural gas and other fossil fuels and at the same time promoting E-cars and heat pumps with grants.
But nobody in the government thought about the supply network which needs to be improved to bear this load.
So the network companies are on their own till now and now the government realises that tax money has to be pumped into strengthening the network as well to make their ambitions on CO2 reductions real.
Some countries take measures to discourage peak loads, like in Belgium where you pay tax depending on the highest load taken form the supply at any given moment during the year, other countries give grants for PV panels and home batteries, this way people are encouraged to spread loads more evenly over the day, maybe helped with smart energy management systems which can for instance switch your dish washer or hotwater tank on when the PV panels deliver a surplus of energy.
I upgraded supply from 3 to 4.5 kW for my home in Italy in 2009, when I installed a heat pump (air to water with floor heating) and a PV system 5 kW with good slope and orientation. Despite here in the north it isn't so warm and sunny as in the south (design T for heating is -7°C for Brescia, 1h east of Milan), I had no real issues or need to further upgrades. 4 in family, 180 m2, induction for cooking, solar thermal panels + separate heat pump for DHW, heating recovery ventilation with active dehumidifier (3rd heat pump) and even a pre-existing air conditioner that I go on using in combination with all the rest (chosen not casually, but for being the first with COP>5)... In other words, with very efficient stuff 4.5 kW is definitely enough
So do you have to manage and juggle power? I have 4.8Kw to my laundry room and have to be careful to not exceed it. Have seen peak loads of 15kw when the ASHP + 7kw EV charger + induction stove and maybe a washing machine or dishwasher.
I think conduit works over there because the buildings are mostly masonry they used to use the hollow clay bricks for partitions and could chase condit into these brick. Sound like they are using partitions?
They use the same system in all types of wall- lots more insulation being used so more dry lining systems are in place.
Helpful video the idea of viewing masses of conduit to serve single sockets takes some getting time to adjust. Sure those coloured conduits purple for selv and green for earth, red power, with brown, white and cream wholesalers choice. One thing I found they all keep the pine martins from nibbling on your cable.
As someone who's not a spark, if you exclude the cost aspect I think that having RCBOs for each circuit is way better than "old style" split load systems as if an appliance craps itself and starts leaking loads of current to earth, with an RCBO setup, you just lose that one circuit, rather than half of your circuits with a split load system. For sparks called out for a fault finding job, it must make their job easier if a system has RCBOs for each circuit
The last three properties I've specced all have RCBOs, and I would not have anything else for the very reason you mention. Split RCDs are a nightmare in many ways. Cumulative leaks over multiple circuits causing nuisance trips, poor fault isolation and identification, and half the power disappearing with a trip. I've only ever had an RCBO trip when there was a genuine problem. They should be mandatory in my view. Another couple of hundred pound on an installation that costs several thousand in labour. It's money well spent.
@@TheEulerID What's your thoughts on whether AFDDs should be made mandatory as well (I believe they do "MCB sized" combined AFDDs & RCBOs)?
I've installed emergency lights in my home just at the top and bottom of the stairs, I've also installed a smoke detector system as I think safety is important in a residential home.
Flexible conduit makes more sense in countries where the electrical installation is done entirely in flexible cable (class 4 or 5). That's how we do it in my country.
UK's wiring is usually class 1 or 2, right? It would be a pain to get those kind of wires through the conduit.
In Germany we used conduit in the past (flexible as well as smooth rigid) and we indeed use solid core wire. Unfortunately, we are only allowed to run a single breaker (circuit) in in one conduit, so for space and cost reasons they started to use simple double insulated wires (NYM, individual singls cores with an additional common sheathing) wiring. These days we have NYM directly concreted into the wall and there is no way to add even a single switched wire afterwards since there is no conduit in walls (except in concrete where it is mandatory).
I still do it as shown in the pictures - one has to be careful to make the corners smooth enough though.
All very familiar. I built a house in France and the sytem is very similar. Like the fact that you can run single wires of various colours whi helps with identification.
I think more places should use 3phase for residential power over a certain power supply, I know of a few situation where it would have been super handy, plus it makes balancing loads on the grid alot easier too with not loading one phase more than the others, please correct me if I'm wrong on that one
Here in italy 3phase is f..... expensive....
Very interesting how things can be so different here in the United States, most of our residential installs are Romex cable which I'm not a fan of at all. I work in the commercial side doing HVACR work and almost all of my work is done in actual emt metal conduit and or flexible conduit but it's always ran in the walls and ceiling ....
Same. I knw that when i eventually have to go through and rewire my house, everything is getting redone in conduit. Romex sucks.
@@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818 Why exactly do you say that Romex sucks? It is perfectly suited for what it has to do, and I think it will last as long as the house, or at until the next strip to the studs renovation. Not many Americans are going to pay for conduit when the benefits seem so small. Seriously curious why you hate Romex.
whit new contracts we are allowed to use more power than the rating, but it also depends from the amount and the time. If the contract is 3KW, you can use 3.3KW indefinitely or 4.2KW for a minute. if you go over 40% the meter will disconnect in 3 seconds.
Our standard contract is 3KW, but until a few years ago we used natural gas or diesel to heat our homes and make hot water, and also AC units where not an usual thing to have in houses, so usally it was more than enough for the oven or hairdryer.
Nowadays you can run a 12000btu ac unit and a clothes dryer whit 2.4KW, so plenty of room for everything else (exept water heating devices and hairdryer)
funny thing is that we can ask for more power, 6Kw max single phase but nobody does that unless really needed, because you increase your bill fixed costs.
Plenty of room? You can't play video games when you have AC running and your wife is cooking. 3 KW is not enough, not even if you are single. I used to live in Italy, now I am in the UK and it is another world. Never a disconnection, you run what you want. The Italian electric grid sucks.
@@biomorphic yeah, electricity costs around 0,5€/Kw, so usually you don't want to consume it 🤣. As I said, using natural gas for heating and cooking, you usually end up whit a 200-400w mean consumption. Also consider that all the lights we use are led ones, so If I sum them all up I get like 120w total for the entire house. I don't know what video games you play, but if that causes problems, you bought a space heater, not a console/pc🤣.
Anyway, last week I've cabled a new house that's going to have a 6Kw contract. Just because they want to install an induction stove in the kitchen
Indeed my PC was almost enough to heat my small studio in London. It probably sucks near 600 watt at peak. And today, if you run a 4090, probably you need 750. I am aware about Italy, I used to live there most of my life. I can assure it is much better having all the power you need. In the UK I don't have to worry about what I run. In Italy I spent 700 Euro on a UPS due to frequent disconnections and blackouts. Here you don't need one. @@cmh-re
Italian vs. US is so interestingly different. Thanks for sharing!
From the UK but I've lived in different parts of Italy and only recently discovered why the power trips so easily, and it seems crazy that 3kW is normal there, but I'm glad to see that's changing with new builds & renovations, especially with things like domestic 7kW car chargers becoming fairly normal. I've only tripped a breaker once in all my life in the UK, but it seems to be fairly common in Italy - As you said, they get used to turning things back on haha
In one place I stayed at there was a Candy Trio, which is hob/oven/dishwasher combo taking up no more space than a standard oven, however I was told to keep the dishwasher door open when it wasn't running because otherwise it could cause the power to trip. Also touching the metal interior I would sometimes get shocked, so I'm not sure if there was an earthing issue. I believe they use the schuko plug on bigger appliances out there, so it should be earthed, but who knows what the issue was there.
Also not really related to electrics, but something I've heard about construction in Italy in the past is that they would leave buildings 'unfinished' with poles sticking out of the top of a building to make it seem like it was incomplete and there was another floor yet to be built, when in fact it was to not have to pay a tax which only took effect once a building was completed. I believe this has changed now though and maybe even being retroactively taxed too.
I confirm that, some people left the whole house unpainted to avoid taxes.. I think that regulations has been updated to avoid this problem
I've heard about this but it's not common, or at least I never seen one non-finished house in north italy
In Italia puoi optare per, 3,3kW oppure 4,5kW oppure 6kW. In alcuni casi puoi chiedere di avere anche 10kW. Sempre tutti in monofase
Nope, it was common in the south Italy to leave the last floor unfinished to not pay taxes. No one in the north did it😂😂
@@pabloescobar_8896 I think also in some parts of the south
In the last year the power limit to switch from mono-phase to 3-phases system was grow up to 10 kW, to permit to supply isolated house with mono-phase and permitting to their to install correct PV system without change internal distribution system.
I honestly think the conduit approach is light years ahead !
If the plastic conduit does not flatten of course.
@@johnburns4017 a valid point, I just like the idea of it so adaptable
@@johnburns4017 that doesn't usually happen. Maybe one or two in the whole house due to damage during works.
You just try and add more cables to flexible conduit. I think you'll start to appreciate the disadvantages :)
@@johnburns4017 I never seen one of those corrugated tubes flatten, that's why they're corrugated
It's exactly the same system that in Spain. More protections, a register box in all the rooms and all the cables are installed in conducts. It's the same for a hotel or a restaurant or a flat. Floors and ceilings usually are made of concrete and the dry walls are used only in cheap buildings. They use different sizes of bricks with air chambers and inside are covered with refractory plaster so the warm or the cold keeps inside the room.
I am from Northern Ireland and I'm living in the middle east almost 12 years, you would be shocked what goes on here
Send us some photos in (no names revealed ) - also happy to visit 😉
Shocked is last thing you want or need.! Old saying is " works dun it ? "
At least Saudi Arabia standardised on the British G type plug. That would save lives.
Looking at this from Canada this is so strange. Our house was built in 1952 and we had a 100 amp 240v panel. We upgraded it 20 years ago to 200amp 240 two phase. No conduit, just run the wire through the studs.
From a different perspective, I am shocked to learn some houses places may run on 20KW or 10. What do you need all that energy for? 😂
My house in Italy runs on 4.5KW and it is already considered higher than the average which is 3.
I also do understand that some may not fully understand the utility billing in Italy. There is portion of the bill based on a montly fee which is tied to how many KW are made available regardless the power consumed. It used to be that above 3KW there was a considerable increment in this portion. Nowadays 4.5KW is a reasonable amount.
Doesn't anyone in Italy have a backyard shed and run power tools and welders for hobby/handyman reasons? Even a modern inverter welder can draw 2-3kw and that would be a problem if anyone else in the household has any substantial appliance running.
@@moth3rfck3r-s4n If needed, you can ask for an upgrade/downgrade (you are billed for this operation, of course): it usually requires 5 working days.
Tipically, with the last meters, the breaker trips if the power required is continuously over the maximum (for example, for a 3kW the maximum power available is 3.3 kW) for more than 3 hours.
I see many comments about how crazy is the limitation to 3Kw power in Italy. Consider this: the country has basically no oil/natural gas/coal in the ground, and nuclear power was outlawed by a referendum 30 years ago. Sure we have some good sun and wind and they are used, but still most of the consumed power has to be imported from abroad. If we would allow everyone and their mother to use electric kettles while using the hairdryer and the dishwasher, the country would go bankrupt - it's a form of soft-rationing, you see. You can still ask the electric company to give you 4.5 or 6 or even 9Kw, but it comes at an extra cost. However, even if you have a 3Kw contract, you can still install a € 50 alert that will ring off if you consume more than 3kw and after a while break the circuit before the counter breaker settles in (very useful in the situations where the counter is not inside the flat)
I think that the meter placement is region dependent, I live in Veneto and the meters are inside the home usually... Great video!
Great info 👍
Meters are required to be accessible from the outside of the property for two reasons: one is for safety, for example if there's a fire the firefighters can easily disconnect the electricity supply. The second reason is that the meters are the electricity company's property, and if they need to do maintenance on them they should be accessible without trying to get permit from the owner to enter the house. Many properties were made before this law so it's very common to have the meters inside the house.
Interesting video. I'm in the Emilia Romagna region. We had our house wired 10 yrs ago. The difference between domestic houses in Italy and the UK is that in italy they tend to have concrete ceilings and floors, so its good for running flexible condiit for wiring, whereas in the UK we have floor boards for cable routes. Also we wire from point to point, in Italy they have joint boxes in all rooms that they wire to and wire from.
Unlike the UK, in italy they don't have safe zones for cable runs, from the jobs I've seen. They run the flexible conduit horizontal, vertical and diagonal. Electricians use cable locators to trace cables buried in walls, a nightmare when you want to hang pictures on the walls. The only time I've seen an earth system like the one you showed in the video in on commercial and industrial new builds. For a domestic install it's a copper earth rod like the UK. Also the distribution boards used in domestics, that I've come across, don't have a solid bus bar that you can connect the MCBs to. You have to loop the mains supply across the MCBs, which means if you want to add or remove a breaker, you have to isolate the supply. Another point is regarding emergency lighting. I've never seen emergency lighting in any domestic premises that I've visited apart from one house, mine. Because of the amount of power outages in the region, i decided to install them everywhere.
I am Chinese, live in italy i am elettricista 😊
It does make sense running pvs conduits as feedning then later replacing old wires over the years will mean the electrician will be in and out of the home quicker than our UK counterparts. And having them colour coded will mean you'll know what it's for and what is allowed in it too. I think it's something we should adopt for British new builds and renervation work too.
In US is way easier manage cable system since mostly of houses are made with wood and have fake walls, In Italy almost 99% of houses are bricks and concrete in any walls also internal so you must use corrugated pipes anytime since if for any reason like for example you drill the wall and cut the electric cable you need to replace it is easier to pull without break the wall randomly to the whole line wasting a lot of money and time
just to point out a little thing "electricity arrived later than in the uk"...true, but the first powerplant in continental Europe was in Milano, and the all first in Europe (in London) was generating less than 100Kw, the one in Milano 350.
Wow, I lived my whole life with 3kW and honestly always thought they were enough... I understand that power consumption is going high due to e-cars and other appliances, but 20kW are a lot of power!
Sadly it's true, here electricity price is very high, after Chernobyl incident citizens voted to shutdown every nuclear power source in a referendum. That was comprehensible, but I think that now people is slowly changing idea about that. Also as mentioned in the video, every new house should have its own solar panels; don't forget that thermal efficiency should be much higher than before... these solutions help with power consumption, but it will take some time to have a full "update"..most buildings are from 1900 to 1980 I think, so... 🙂
In some German regions the standard supply is 43 kW, even for a studio apartment. Now that's insane!
@@Ragnar8504 Wow! Really insane. I wouldn't be surprised of people dedicating to indoor greenhouses ... 🙂
Very interesting and well presented!
Interesting video. How the hell do they know what conduit goes where as nothing is marked up 😂 actually some good ideas especially around the consumer unit !
I am a retired electrician in Chicago. These wiring practices would be a topic of great laughter here. Metal conduit, metal boxes and metal breaker panels are the legal way here. Away from the city, “Romex” (flexible fire resistant cable) is permitted. We only use the flexible plastic tubing for low voltage applications.
You should come see electrical work in Suadi.... would scare most people
Sounds like a mission 👍
Oh yes I can imagine. I lived in Italy for 4 years and worked on Italian built superyachts. The things they can do are mind-boggling, but not in a good way. My brother is a builder married to a 50% Italian and they own several small cottages near Salerno. He finds their general building standards to be appalling, but their specialised work is good.
Plumber go first because they need the slope for the drain pipe and because the water pipe are not so flexible :)
Incredibly useful video, I've just bought a medieval tower-keep that had it's electricity done in the 1950s and again in the 80s. So I'll be coming back here very often over the summer.
Thanks - stay tuned for part 2
6kw supply? 🤯 I'm U.S. on split-phase 240v, 200 amp (48kw) in 1970s construction, and the typical around me now is double that!
I think average property sizes in the US are considerably larger.
@@efixx Besides needing air conditioning for a good chunk of the year in much of the country, electric ranges (usually a dedicated 50A 240V circuit) and water heaters (often 4.5kW or 5.5kW for storage tank and up to 36kW for tankless instant) are common. Our heat pumps also have resistive backup heat packs of anywhere from 5kW to 25kW. It's also common for houses to have water wells with submersible pumps as the water supply.
im not glad has lot houses burn down at USA.
@@randacnam7321 also in italy
wow, that is so odd..... In US, we dont do any conduit in the walls... wire is mounted to the studs... That would make things sooooo simple if needing to change/update/replace wire in the future.... its always a pain to cut drywall away.. our breaker boxes are on the outside of the house and having these split breakers around is crazy... this is so complex....
You have to consider that we don't have drywalls in Italy, so it would be stupid to tear apart brick walls to change some electric cables.
Im a fan of the flexible conduit systems, for water supplies, with manifolds and for cables. I think that one of the major reasons as to why its its not used in the UK is cost, radial systems are better than ring mains, but the consumer unit is much bigger. British house builders have to be forced to spend money😮😢😊
Radials for socket circuits is _not_ better than final ring circuits. There are great advantages with rings. The British 3-pin plugs with the fuse in the plug, of a max of 13A, makes rings work very well. Proven over 78 years.
@@johnburns4017 Thats a matter of opinion, but the level of control and protection is better with radial as each room and/or fixed appliance can have it's own RCBO so that tripping does not affect all equipement on the ring. It also allows for minimal interruption to the property if work is being carried out.
@@geoffaries
That can be done on a ring. MCB at main panel RCBOs at fixed appliances, etc.
@@johnburns4017 Yes, but that would require a seperate ring for each room, which will be more expensive than a radial system.
@@geoffaries
Explain what you mean.
Just identical how it's done here in Portugal for a long time. When we need a faster pace we use it pre-wired.
I'm not seeing any horror stories, just a different culture, a different set of answers to similar questions elsewhere. Wanna hear an electrical horror story? I live in an area where the first electrical systems was installed, Connecticut USA, and I've been in a home that the original gas system was still installed and got to see most of that gas system used as the pipe and tube gas system also ...energized and used as the electrical system so some of the ceiling lights could use gas mantles in some of the lamps and electrical bulbs in some of the lamps. Total guess as to what copper tube is hot, gas filled, both or dead. Either shocking, explodey or nothing. They were in the process of 'modernizing' their 100+ year old family home.
Seeing all the tubing exploding from the walls immediately made me think of Sam Lowry's apartment in the movie Brazil.
Ahahaha! Had to say you're right. But most of them are left empty so you can add more cables in the future if necessary.
The one thing I like most is they get 3 phase.
Above 6kW you can.
Very similar here in Croatia, although we use neon orange plastic conduit for everything.
Nick Bundy will be in dreamland watching this 😂
😂
Here in Portugal - also a Mediterranean country - it is pretty similar to Italy.
For the longest time, the standard was 3.45 kVA as the contracted power, which translates to 15 A of current.
Nowadays, many people switched to 6.90 kVA, which is 30 A of current.
This shift is mainly due to the change from gas to electric stoves, the dishwasher became normalize, and many houses installed Air Conditioning units.
Moreover, our energy needs - overall in the Western countries - has risen.
Heat pumps is still rare in Portugal.
But I honestly think that in Europe in general, but specifically in Portugal, we still have a long way to go when it comes to HVAC system installation.
I still struggle to find a air exchange system, which brings fresh air into the house, but warms it up before entering the house.
Moreover, people still struggle with humidity and do not know how to respond in an effective manner, let alone in an efficient one.
All this to say: in this road for efficiency, we need to work and share experiences - like you just did in this video.
Thank you so much!
Dutch standard is 230V x 40A = around 9.2kVA. For most applications that's fine. Since I'm using induction I have a double group for the induction plate. And I put the oven + microwave on different groups as well so I can run all 3 together with no issues.
@@StCreed Portuguese culture, for many years, was to save energy as much as possible.
Only in recent years did the population evolve into a more consumer-oriented mindset, for energy consumption, among other aspects.
With 6.9 kVA I can run almost everything I want - granted it is on a separate circuit.
We have 2.5 mm2 cables to power sockets / outlets, and 1.5 mm2 to lighting, and it is mandatory to have separate circuits for a given power demand.
In the kitchen, you must have a dedicated circuit to each big appliance: cocktop, oven, washing machine, dishwasher, etc... This avoids running into issues.
Nevertheless, I imagine that in colder climate countries, the massive power demand is during the Winter months, right?
They obviously don’t use spirit levels
Here in Italy my father used to work as an electrician for a few months in his youth and once went to work in an old shed-like house where one particular power point only worked if one particular water tap was open. Yeah, you needed to open the water to make the electric plug work.
It was so because (forgive an eventual error from my part, I'm trying to repeat my father's explanation) the plug's ground was grounded to the water's metallic pipe, and the laws of electromagnetism work differently if the water inside stays still or runs through.
Standard for Italy is 3 to 6 kw. That couldn’t even power my oven. USA normally have 24 to 48 kw
I would never have thought that abroad they use wires without the flexible pipes, here in Italy all systems are made like this, and for 20-25 years even the water pipes have been made of plastic inserted in a flexible tube so that they can be replaced quickly.
Nick Bundy would love it 😂
One advantage of metal, or rigid plastic conduit, is that new cables can be fed through the tubing. In France I tried to run a new single core conductor in plastic flexible conduit, as in this vid. Could not get from one end to the other, as it was blocked, or flattened, along its length.
We use a cable probe that is more flexible. I have run some cable with my father in our home and never had an issue wven with 12m wires
Three-phase supplies, flexible conduit, and radial circuits as standard is brilliant.
Combine that with UK Type-G plugs and sockets, and you'd have the perfect system imo!