@jjlwis A wave solder machine has a tank of melted solder that is pumped up (from the bottom) against the solder side of a printed wiring board (PWB). The solder sticks to any traces, pads and components attached thereto that are exposed to the wave and joins them all together. This machine dispenses solder paste to the pads on the top of the PWB so that the components that are then placed on top can be heated to the point where the solder melts, joining component to PWB. There is no wave.
@DanFrederiksen There is a flux present (don't know if it is rosin), else there would be problems unless the pads/components had just been moments before mechanically cleaned. Text from a paste ad: "During the reflow process, the flux system will remove the surface oxidation layer and then the molten solder alloy will wet and react with the component terminal and metal pad on PCB and finally form the mechanical and electrical joining." I couldn't have put it better myself.
@Ruchira88 Not sure exactly, but I am lead to believe it is many 10's of thousands. As I said, if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it. Much cheaper ones only go down to 0603 parts.
@eevblog I wasn't blaming you, i just thought good CNC gear would pick the most optimal route, or at the least have a good reason for the route it takes.
i dont know if im the first person to say but that box u referred 2 as a air regulator is actually a air dryer, used to remove water vapor from compressed air.
@WakkoXtreme There's nothing on the boards at this point. Very few things in electronics are actually effected by magnets. HDDs aren't effected unless you rub the platter, unless you have like 1m^3 magnets.
@hitachi088 Looking at all the precision slides, etc. in that machine, without doing any research on the question, my guess would be ten times your guess (at least). Machines in a commercial production environment tend to be priced for what they can do (can earn) rather than just what it costs to build plus a profit. In other words, we're screwed.
Wow. That software is really rough on the eyes. With the amount of money spent on these things, you'd think they'd take some time and try to make it look a little nicer.
@MucusFelidae Dave is a high-energy guy, so you aren't going to slow him down. Do you notice that when he is playing with precision instruments that he taps them against things, whacks them with his hand, throws them down stairwells, etc., whereas most of us would c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y place them in their protective carrying cases? Dave is not the kind of guy you would want to take along with you to carry your nitro on a safecracking job! :-)
with all the FDM 3D printers craze, this thing should cost next to nothing nowadays, take a 3D printer, replace the extruder done; I'm pretty shocked it had an alignment problem
Nice toy, I am impressed by it's resolution, but imho not worth the investment, even if one makes huge amounts of prototypes it is not paying itself back as much as an epilog (or any other brand) laser cutter. I'd rather use a laser-cutter to make a stencil.. The laser cutter can also be used in many other applications. This would only pay for itself if one would produce many one-off projects.
I found the video with one of this units in action: /watch?v=9pTpJXFASr8 Dave, I noticed you use SMD's and solder paste. I know you are busy, but this may be a good thing for a small test and review, teardown, ranting about bad engineering... :-D ... and the compressed air isn't problem, it uses very tiny volume of air, so even a small compressor should do the job (in the vid above he uses 2HP compressor, that's total overkill :-). Compressed air is also handy for cleaning electronics.
Accuracy is awful, our production manager would kill me with most painful method because of such crooked BGA balls! Obviously, the cone hits surface every time, this is not reliable construction. I can't imagine pick and placer on this machine.
Nice machine! German craftsmanship, we know what we're doing ;) But why did you choose this pricey-as-shit Type-6-paste? Type 4 would have sufficed for those bulky big parts! Type 6 is for solder balls straight on silicon, with pads down to 50µm (yes, half the diameter of a human hair, thats what solder paste can do)!
Andreas Fall I have human hairs growing on me, that are about 100 times thinner than a human hair (the ones in my beard) !!! All hairs are different diameter!
@hitachi088 I think its way more $2000 man! Even dave didnt sayed "You cant afford this" for the Gossen Metrawatt! So I believe this way more higher than $2000
Please, put sub titles in spanish, i like very much your videos, but i don't understand all you say, because you speak quickly, and you has a very acute voice. Excuse my english.
now it is all yours???
The unit between the air compressor and the paste dispenser is a refrigerated air drier to remove moisture from the process air.
Why did it choose that way to print the bga's wouldnt a spiral be more efficient?
@jjlwis Yes, completely. See my other video for a demo of a wave solder machine.
@bejius It is built into my Corel videoStudio Smarttunes library which I tweaked a bit.
@jjlwis A wave solder machine has a tank of melted solder that is pumped up (from the bottom) against the solder side of a printed wiring board (PWB). The solder sticks to any traces, pads and components attached thereto that are exposed to the wave and joins them all together.
This machine dispenses solder paste to the pads on the top of the PWB so that the components that are then placed on top can be heated to the point where the solder melts, joining component to PWB. There is no wave.
@DanFrederiksen There is a flux present (don't know if it is rosin), else there would be problems unless the pads/components had just been moments before mechanically cleaned. Text from a paste ad: "During the reflow process, the flux system will remove the surface oxidation layer and then the molten solder alloy will wet and react with the component terminal and metal pad on PCB and finally form the mechanical and electrical joining." I couldn't have put it better myself.
@Ruchira88 Not sure exactly, but I am lead to believe it is many 10's of thousands. As I said, if you have to ask the price, you can't afford it. Much cheaper ones only go down to 0603 parts.
@Scaramanga842 I didn't choose any of this gear or paste.
@eevblog I wasn't blaming you, i just thought good CNC gear would pick the most optimal route, or at the least have a good reason for the route it takes.
even with small production runs, aren't stencils much faster and more cost effective?
@ryantheleach I didn't chose it, the program did.
@mageepaddy Correct. Very common to add that on panels.
i dont know if im the first person to say but that box u referred 2 as a air regulator is actually a air dryer, used to remove water vapor from compressed air.
What is it that you actually do for a living? PCB design? Also what do you manufacture? (consumer good or government goods?)
Wouldn’t it be cheaper and faster to use a laser etcher to make a stencil and then squeegee the whole batch at once ?
@WakkoXtreme There's nothing on the boards at this point. Very few things in electronics are actually effected by magnets. HDDs aren't effected unless you rub the platter, unless you have like 1m^3 magnets.
@hitachi088 Looking at all the precision slides, etc. in that machine, without doing any research on the question, my guess would be ten times your guess (at least). Machines in a commercial production environment tend to be priced for what they can do (can earn) rather than just what it costs to build plus a profit. In other words, we're screwed.
@WakkoXtreme There would be no problems with that on a blank board.
I've allays wondered where Dave picked up the end title song, I just can't stop hearing it I like it a lot !
@QBMan Someone on the blog comments mentioned US$30K, and I think that's about right. You are paying for the ducks guts.
For prototypes, why not have some stencils laser cut out of kapton for like $20 and use a squeegee.
That machine is awesome!
Wow. That software is really rough on the eyes. With the amount of money spent on these things, you'd think they'd take some time and try to make it look a little nicer.
Is this from your work that you recently quit/closed up shop?
@EEVblog Dave, where is this facility? What's their industry/products?
I have a feeling it's at his old workplace, Altium
Yeah it is, I can tell by the boards.
Frozen Electronics
I thought he left Altium before that video was made...The boards makes sense though...
MFeinstein No this was well before he left.
Frozen Electronics
well, I just remember a bunch of videos of him ranting about Altium's way of business :P
@MucusFelidae Dave is a high-energy guy, so you aren't going to slow him down. Do you notice that when he is playing with precision instruments that he taps them against things, whacks them with his hand, throws them down stairwells, etc., whereas most of us would c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y place them in their protective carrying cases? Dave is not the kind of guy you would want to take along with you to carry your nitro on a safecracking job! :-)
add a pick and place head so you can apply paste then place the components!
Dave- is this different from a wave solder machine?
that cnc magic :D
@mitpatterson Yes.
simple question so please answer dave!
How much is this?
How very interesting. I sure as hell wouldn't want to do that by hand.
damn that looks inefficient.
with all the FDM 3D printers craze, this thing should cost next to nothing nowadays, take a 3D printer, replace the extruder done; I'm pretty shocked it had an alignment problem
Amazing!! Germany always brings the best.
We have one of these at our school, well not that modern, it rund on a DOS based PC. ^^
Nice toy, I am impressed by it's resolution, but imho not worth the investment, even if one makes huge amounts of prototypes it is not paying itself back as much as an epilog (or any other brand) laser cutter.
I'd rather use a laser-cutter to make a stencil..
The laser cutter can also be used in many other applications.
This would only pay for itself if one would produce many one-off projects.
The machine sounds like an old arcade game.
Time to play Galaga!
I found the video with one of this units in action: /watch?v=9pTpJXFASr8
Dave, I noticed you use SMD's and solder paste. I know you are busy, but this may be a good thing for a small test and review, teardown, ranting about bad engineering... :-D
... and the compressed air isn't problem, it uses very tiny volume of air, so even a small compressor should do the job (in the vid above he uses 2HP compressor, that's total overkill :-). Compressed air is also handy for cleaning electronics.
Accuracy is awful, our production manager would kill me with most painful method because of such crooked BGA balls! Obviously, the cone hits surface every time, this is not reliable construction. I can't imagine pick and placer on this machine.
Oh man, Dave is so young :P
Nice machine! German craftsmanship, we know what we're doing ;)
But why did you choose this pricey-as-shit Type-6-paste? Type 4 would have sufficed for those bulky big parts! Type 6 is for solder balls straight on silicon, with pads down to 50µm (yes, half the diameter of a human hair, thats what solder paste can do)!
Andreas Fall I have human hairs growing on me, that are about 100 times thinner than a human hair (the ones in my beard) !!! All hairs are different diameter!
@hitachi088 I think its way more $2000 man! Even dave didnt sayed "You cant afford this" for the Gossen Metrawatt! So I believe this way more higher than $2000
@frankbuss see daves PCB design Tutorial, episode # was 120 something
Comic Sans, AARGGHH! My eyes burn!
Very interesting,expensive machine....
Cool Video
Indeed :D
@aljaz55 What would really be useful is an engraving module that would, uh, pay for itself, so to speak.
Awesome :)
Please, put sub titles in spanish, i like very much your videos, but i don't understand all you say, because you speak quickly, and you has a very acute voice. Excuse my english.
Yes, and please put sub titles in the other 198 languages of the world too......
chines guys everywhere, aye ?