Love these videos. Getting a consistent surface finish has been my biggest gripe with 3d printing. I never would have thought to add a chamfer on the bottom to print it at an angle to do it
I've been designing PCBs for 30+ years and mostly got into CAD and 3D printing for custom enclosures. UL and NEMA ratings are an issue in certain deployments. I'm mostly concerned with surface quality and customer impression. Do you have a video showing surface quality for corner oriented prints as mentioned here? Thanks for the video.
Not mentioned directly in this video, but sometimes brought up. I have been using a lot more TPU. I was scared of it at first, but wow is it tough. And not that much more than PLA.
Yes! TPU is the magic material hidden in plain sight. It's rigid (when thick) has INCREDIBLE wear resistance, and is highly flexible. And it's cost is somewhat comparable to standard materials. You can make gears with TPU that last a LONG time and are silent in operation (for example).
Back in the day our partner that has DIY electronics kit subdivision complained that they were fed up with injection mold enclosures because they had such small devices that it was a challenge to find proper enclosure in available lineup on local market and prices of enclosures were sometimes comparable if not higher than their kits. Then they switched to 3d printing like 10 years ago, came to us excited with extremely ugly thicc layer lines 3d printed enclosures. But that was a very good decision on their side that allowed to greatly ease their design process and reduce costs. And nowadays quality of printers and prints went leagues ahead.
I've been doing this for years. Works great and when you combine it with laser engraving for text you can make a really good looking enclosure/panel etc.
I thought laser engraving would release toxins on 3d printed parts? Are you doing this yourself or using a service? Clear text on my parts is the only thing I'm missing.
@CLGilbert It probably does. I'm doing it myself using a 5W laser at like 3% power, though, so I don't see any smoke coming off. I'm also doing it in the garage, where it's a large open area that's well ventilated. Some plastics will engrave naturally, and others require marking paint. The engraver basically burns the marking paint to the part.
@@CLGilbert Laser cutters/engravers (when set up properly) use ducts to vent smoke and fumes out of the building you're in. That being said, you don't want to laser cut/engrave stuff like PVC, but PLA/PETG are fine.
Mounting tabs / bosses: If they look "about right" in CAD, they are seriously undersized 😉 I'd make "print on this" bevel go around and set it non-fuzzy -> looks about the same from all angles. Wait, I have _textured_ PEI sheet -> setting them _fuzzy_ makes them uniform 🙃
I find it amazing how many people come into this channel and shout "It won't work! You can't do that! You'll lose money! Another process is better!", etc, etc. Imagine where we'd be today if Ford, Edison, Tesla, the Wright Brothers and other innovators listened to that noise. Yes, sometimes it doesn't work and sometimes you'll lose money, but if you don't try you don't advance.
I was honestly wondering about 3d printing material efficient custom packaging, especially for things that are best held still, stiffly in the middle of a box.
This may be fine for simple projects or silly indoor use-cases... For serious products that are used outdoors (big boy applications); this will not work, and is a stupid idea. PLA is not UV resistant. PETG is also not UV resistant enough for long outdoor exposures. ASA would be best, but they also won't be watertight. Submerged a 3D printed box and see how long it lasts... NEMA4X enclosures use a special blend of polycarbonate along side other materials to make it extremely UV resistant, non-porous, very tough, etc. They also include the proper gasketing to ensure a proper seal when closed. So in summary, for hobby projects or BS products, sure, print your own. When you go to production, you can't scale easily with 3D prints, unless you are working in very small numbers and longer lead times, and they simply won't work for outdoor applications.
We operate the largest print farms on the planet making hundreds of thousands of parts. And as you say, there are lots of other materials than pla. Fortunately additive can use them all.
"Hobby projects/BS products/silly indoor use-cases" lol what a dumb comment. Why are things indoor silly? Why would you over engineer a product that's intended use case is indoors with an IP67+ box. ONLY REAL PRODUCTS CAN SUVRIVE THE OUTDOORS! Not everything needs to exist outside my guy to be a real product.
You can send it out for testing, or become a panel shop and apply the UL508 label yourself. If you’re going to produce a large quantity ul certification really isn’t a huge issue.
An important note is that 3D printed plastics are most likely not up to code, depending on the location. Using a 3D printed junction box may be a reason for insurance to get out of having to pay you.
@@slant3d Can you make a video about making these enclosures compliant with most codes, and what materials suggested. My understanding is that both PLA and ABS are quite flamable. You mention it in this video but "yes it can" is not actionable, useful information.
Yeah, you can make it to the same spec as the box certified by UL, but that doesn't mean it was tested and certified by UL to meet their rigorous standards. That makes a difference when it comes to meeting code requirements.
@@riba2233 FDM additive manufacturing most likely can provide conforming components if proper materials are used, at least if full traceable datasheet chain can be delivered for the materials but if a formal type approvals are involved, it’ll probably faster to select commerical and certified enclosure than run the paperwork, pay for certification and perform month long tests.
Can we send you a board and you design and print the enclosure to our dimensions? Would like your engineering help on this step of our process. We do electronics prototyping and small-to-medium quantities; packaging has always been out of reach for this segment.
What might work better is to export from your ecad program the grbl or stl of the board with mounting holes placed (and centers marked) that can then be used to properly dimension the mount into an enclosure design you might suggest or know you need. If cables are going to be going out sides, or connectors need to be on edges (think the various interfaces that are not the GPIO pins on a Raspberry Pi) knowing what sorts of clearance are needed for each of those connectors, whether they need to be through to the outside, or are they going to have bulkhead extensions that need to be allowed for, etc.) is helpful to design teams. Granted this really only helps when you have a final board design or have standardized on interface and mounting layouts. However it's something to consider as part of the design and prototyping scheduling.
I like the 3D prints in my house. With the right filament and settings (and a good printer), it can be hard to tell it's 3D printed. Although sometimes I'll be fine with the layer lines too, depending on the type of item I'm printing. If you don't mind a bit of extra work, post-processing (sanding, painting, etc) is also an option.
I guess whatever customers he has for this kind of thing has no certification requirements. Or desire for waterproofing (something you can mostly get by adding a spay conformal coat but is really only ideal for one offs)
another straight to the point very useful video
Thanks for watching
Love these videos. Getting a consistent surface finish has been my biggest gripe with 3d printing. I never would have thought to add a chamfer on the bottom to print it at an angle to do it
I've been designing PCBs for 30+ years and mostly got into CAD and 3D printing for custom enclosures. UL and NEMA ratings are an issue in certain deployments. I'm mostly concerned with surface quality and customer impression. Do you have a video showing surface quality for corner oriented prints as mentioned here? Thanks for the video.
I'm not them but look at their other videos. A 3d printing technique exists called fuzzy skin can be used.
@LastDitchHero I've tried fuzzy when I first got my X1C in Bambu Studio. Probably need to play with it more.
@@CraigHollabaugh techniques also exist to add a surface texture via Fusion 360.
@@LastDitchHero been using F360 for years and don't know about this. Where is this?
It’s not a problem to get esd safe filaments and then print them with quality with say a Bambu x1c or x1e. Then use scarf joints
The videos that this channel have put out have probably saved me way too much money on materials and print time : )
You're welcome. Glad to hear it
Wow. Very cool
Not mentioned directly in this video, but sometimes brought up. I have been using a lot more TPU. I was scared of it at first, but wow is it tough. And not that much more than PLA.
Yes! TPU is the magic material hidden in plain sight. It's rigid (when thick) has INCREDIBLE wear resistance, and is highly flexible. And it's cost is somewhat comparable to standard materials.
You can make gears with TPU that last a LONG time and are silent in operation (for example).
It is fantastic aside from its hygroscopy.
@@slant3d Very good point.
4:59 how did you get a surface like that? Super cool
@@lucash7012 fuzzy skin sttetting
I've been educated. Thanks for the service.
Back in the day our partner that has DIY electronics kit subdivision complained that they were fed up with injection mold enclosures because they had such small devices that it was a challenge to find proper enclosure in available lineup on local market and prices of enclosures were sometimes comparable if not higher than their kits.
Then they switched to 3d printing like 10 years ago, came to us excited with extremely ugly thicc layer lines 3d printed enclosures. But that was a very good decision on their side that allowed to greatly ease their design process and reduce costs. And nowadays quality of printers and prints went leagues ahead.
I've been doing this for years. Works great and when you combine it with laser engraving for text you can make a really good looking enclosure/panel etc.
I thought laser engraving would release toxins on 3d printed parts? Are you doing this yourself or using a service? Clear text on my parts is the only thing I'm missing.
@CLGilbert
It probably does. I'm doing it myself using a 5W laser at like 3% power, though, so I don't see any smoke coming off. I'm also doing it in the garage, where it's a large open area that's well ventilated.
Some plastics will engrave naturally, and others require marking paint. The engraver basically burns the marking paint to the part.
@@CLGilbert Laser cutters/engravers (when set up properly) use ducts to vent smoke and fumes out of the building you're in. That being said, you don't want to laser cut/engrave stuff like PVC, but PLA/PETG are fine.
@@rsmeaton What cutter/engraver are you using or recommend to print text on an electronic enclosure like the ones being discussed here?
@@BradKwfc What device are you using or do you recommend?
Mounting tabs / bosses: If they look "about right" in CAD, they are seriously undersized 😉
I'd make "print on this" bevel go around and set it non-fuzzy -> looks about the same from all angles. Wait, I have _textured_ PEI sheet -> setting them _fuzzy_ makes them uniform 🙃
Thank you for your work.
I find it amazing how many people come into this channel and shout "It won't work! You can't do that! You'll lose money! Another process is better!", etc, etc. Imagine where we'd be today if Ford, Edison, Tesla, the Wright Brothers and other innovators listened to that noise. Yes, sometimes it doesn't work and sometimes you'll lose money, but if you don't try you don't advance.
I was honestly wondering about 3d printing material efficient custom packaging, especially for things that are best held still, stiffly in the middle of a box.
This may be fine for simple projects or silly indoor use-cases...
For serious products that are used outdoors (big boy applications); this will not work, and is a stupid idea.
PLA is not UV resistant. PETG is also not UV resistant enough for long outdoor exposures. ASA would be best, but they also won't be watertight. Submerged a 3D printed box and see how long it lasts...
NEMA4X enclosures use a special blend of polycarbonate along side other materials to make it extremely UV resistant, non-porous, very tough, etc. They also include the proper gasketing to ensure a proper seal when closed.
So in summary, for hobby projects or BS products, sure, print your own.
When you go to production, you can't scale easily with 3D prints, unless you are working in very small numbers and longer lead times, and they simply won't work for outdoor applications.
We operate the largest print farms on the planet making hundreds of thousands of parts. And as you say, there are lots of other materials than pla. Fortunately additive can use them all.
"Hobby projects/BS products/silly indoor use-cases" lol what a dumb comment. Why are things indoor silly? Why would you over engineer a product that's intended use case is indoors with an IP67+ box. ONLY REAL PRODUCTS CAN SUVRIVE THE OUTDOORS! Not everything needs to exist outside my guy to be a real product.
Amazing vid
Glad you enjoyed it
Any issues with insurance companies and the lack of formal UL certification ?
You can send it out for testing, or become a panel shop and apply the UL508 label yourself. If you’re going to produce a large quantity ul certification really isn’t a huge issue.
An important note is that 3D printed plastics are most likely not up to code, depending on the location. Using a 3D printed junction box may be a reason for insurance to get out of having to pay you.
Incorrect. Printed parts can be made to the same spec as any other process.
@@slant3d Can you make a video about making these enclosures compliant with most codes, and what materials suggested. My understanding is that both PLA and ABS are quite flamable.
You mention it in this video but "yes it can" is not actionable, useful information.
@@caramelzappa you can just buy a non-flammable filament.
Yeah, you can make it to the same spec as the box certified by UL, but that doesn't mean it was tested and certified by UL to meet their rigorous standards. That makes a difference when it comes to meeting code requirements.
@@riba2233 FDM additive manufacturing most likely can provide conforming components if proper materials are used, at least if full traceable datasheet chain can be delivered for the materials but if a formal type approvals are involved, it’ll probably faster to select commerical and certified enclosure than run the paperwork, pay for certification and perform month long tests.
keeping the contact info, i have a 3d printer but i'm not printing 10k boxes on it alone lol.
Can we send you a board and you design and print the enclosure to our dimensions? Would like your engineering help on this step of our process. We do electronics prototyping and small-to-medium quantities; packaging has always been out of reach for this segment.
What might work better is to export from your ecad program the grbl or stl of the board with mounting holes placed (and centers marked) that can then be used to properly dimension the mount into an enclosure design you might suggest or know you need. If cables are going to be going out sides, or connectors need to be on edges (think the various interfaces that are not the GPIO pins on a Raspberry Pi) knowing what sorts of clearance are needed for each of those connectors, whether they need to be through to the outside, or are they going to have bulkhead extensions that need to be allowed for, etc.) is helpful to design teams.
Granted this really only helps when you have a final board design or have standardized on interface and mounting layouts. However it's something to consider as part of the design and prototyping scheduling.
If I had some sort of factory I'd 3d print everything. For home use though, I still prefer smooth finish stuff.
I like the 3D prints in my house. With the right filament and settings (and a good printer), it can be hard to tell it's 3D printed. Although sometimes I'll be fine with the layer lines too, depending on the type of item I'm printing. If you don't mind a bit of extra work, post-processing (sanding, painting, etc) is also an option.
I guess whatever customers he has for this kind of thing has no certification requirements. Or desire for waterproofing (something you can mostly get by adding a spay conformal coat but is really only ideal for one offs)
Thanks!
You bet!
Where STL file?
As per usual with 3D printing, because customization
fuzzy skin is missing from one little facet that's chamfered to touch the build plate!
He does in fact exist on observation