Bro you gotta rename that title XD. But in all seriousness, I think the lack of continuity is why he didn't succeed. There really wasn't a team that gave him a 3 year span chance to let him develop. GSW was trying to contend and he was injured during that tenure. DET already had Duren and by then, it was more so him shaking off the BUST label then him actually developing. Really just unfortunate scenario's in combination with his lack of adjusting to the NBA speed. Players like Justise Winslow, and Cam Reddish struggled with this where they were relatively the same player from their rookie year until their inevitable departure.
I live in Indianapolis and so I am a Pacers fan. I stumbled upon your video. Your analysis and description of his shortcomings with video support was excellent.
Love the vid! Memphis fan and born and raised native. I feel like he could have developed way better without Kerr. He’s been notorious for not knowing how and when to use players. Was forced to play Kuminga and stumbled on a gem that was buried on the bench. Would love to see a vid on Kevin Knox as well. Or maybe even prospects you were lower on (and why) the ended up breaking out. Nonetheless, gained a sub from me, great vid!
I think one of the biggest things was his motor and feel for the game. Since high school, he sometimes was in total cruise control, and on top of that, his feel for the game and decision making weren’t good enough to coast anyways. HS was one of the indicators that he may not be that good.
The thing with Wiseman is he wants to be good he gives good effort, he just has such poor BBIQ/feel for the game. Watching him in Detroit I see the athletic tools pop I don’t think it’s the injuries to blame. He did make some marginal improvements as a rim deterrent down the stretch to his credit. But he still wants to be mainly a post scorer and can’t do the screen/catch lobs/drop D stuff well. He hijacked the offense often in Detroit with his needless post-ups. Monty and Casey seemed to like him though for what that’s worth.
I think there's two events that really hurt Wiseman's development. 1) NCAA - Wiseman really needed that year away from High School to play against strong competition. The NCAA killed any playing time that he would've had against comparable competition. Of course you could also say that him being suspended kept up his mystique and kept his weaknesses from being exposed in front of a bigger audience. 2) COVID - Not only was his college career cut short, but then his draft process got completely upended by COVID. Draft day wasn't until November 18th that year and the NBA season started soon afterwards. Wiseman lost 2 years of development due to *adults behaving badly* and a pandemic, couple that with the two timelines approach by GSW and it's not that surprising that he failed to develop according to expectations. You should really compare his development track to two other players, GG Jackson and Jalen Johnson. Both had problematic freshman years, but unlike James Wiseman, they both fell in the draft because of them. However, because they fell, the Grizzlies and Hawks were much more comfortable leaving them in the G-League their rookie years (until GG had to be called up due to injuries.) that allowed them to develop limited roles and set them up for a better chance of success.
@@lunarblues ya covid messed a ton of shit up with guys not getting their final aau year. i think jalen johnson was actually a really great prospect who was way underrated but gg yeah
@@benpfeifer8192 JJ was underrated, but his Freshman year at Duke was very weird due to the COVID precautions Duke put in place (Just in terms of life in general much less on the court). Once he left the team, rumors got restarted from his high school days and he fell. As for GG, what would've happened if North Carolina expected him to come to school early and had a scholarship spot available when he reclassified...
@@benpfeifer8192 covid didnt mess things up..... the US response to covid was the real problem. Players would have been fine catching and recovering from covid. Shutting down the league was a bit ridiculous
A moment that will always stand out to me is an early game in his rookie season agains the raptors where he tried to dribble the ball in front of siakam inside the 3 point line, he lost the ball and then literally fell on his face. In a way ive never see an NBA do that before, i couldnt believe what i saw. I think that moment was a indication of how uncoordinated his lower body is, and why thats such a problem for bigs.
my one thing with wiseman is that i think a lot of his issues could have been coached but hardaway kept teaching him lots of guard skills so when it came down to big man skills he lacked severity i think ur overstating the athletic tools issues i still think he had the ability to be like an embiid level defender because it’s not like he’s the greatest mover either laterally. wiseman reminded me a lot of embiid but not only did we have the two timelines bullshit but he had no chance to develop because he tore his meniscus and it awoke again the next year and he was a covid draftee so he barely had anytime to ever workout until his 3rd year and off season in which we actually saw him do well on the pistons except he’s buried behind bigs there and now it’s the same on the pacers and u can’t develop without on court reps so even tho he fits the pacers i worry his reps will limit him still. i don’t think it’s just the evaluation but also the coaching and development was horrid for him because a lot of those issues could be fixed
Someone guys I think would be interesting would be Patrick Baldwin jr and Justin Edwards. As you talk about talent evaluation, it’s not their faults but just misevaluated. I was sure Baldwin would be like Michael Porter Jr and Edward’s would be a bit similar to Brandon Miller
James Wiseman has one Title on his legacy already. If he develops along the lines of JaVale McGee, Wiseman ends up with 4 Championship Rings and earns a couple of hundred minimum. BUST!! HUH? WHAT?
Wiseman was just not healthy enough for the NBA. He's still young and raw enough to be good enough in the right situation. Wasn't really gotten a chance on gsw.
I think every time someone drove on wiseman and tried to score on him... they always scored. He was there physically, but it is like he was non-existent.
as a warriors fan, it was annoying to see him just standing around on rebounds. a guy that size with that athletic ability could atleast be involved int he fight to keep balls alive and get rebounds. He just lacked effort a lot.
April 10, 2021: Torn right meniscus Jan. 13, 2022: Arthroscopic surgery June 13, 2022: Receives orthobiologic injection You need to do your research. Knee injuries slowed down his career
@@zdiii3795 His motor is fine. That really has not been an issue in the NBA. He's very conscientious and gives good effort. He just doesn't process fast enough. But the injuries absolutely slowed down his mental development though because he wasn't able to play. He needs reps.
@@zdiii3795 yes it does explain why he has trouble reading the game. He hasn’t had the reps. He hasn’t played enough. Btw that improved under Monty but to your point no college, no summer league, injuries and situation definitely affected his development. For context, this is his second healthy offseason.
He simply never had the talent to justify his draft spot. He had some promise, but if there had been a full season I have no doubt he wouldnt have gone that high. His motor was low and feel was poor in the league, and there was no way to fix that. There was also promise of perimeter skills, but he fell into the classic semi-skilled bigman trap. Once he was allowed to take his jumper he fell in love wirh it, but didnt actually have the ability. If he improves a lot as a defender and becomes more active on both sides of the ball he'll be a serviceable big. But ultimately he just never had enough to justify his draft position
The semi-skilled big trap is a good call out. For every Embiid there are 10 Wisemans and Bagleys But if the shooting had hit and he got to play in a scheme like Lively did that was very simplified -- and he hadn't missed so much time -- well that's why you take someone like him at #2 because that's an All Star.. There aren't many 7'1" guys who move like him. He's plenty talented. In a stronger draft he goes like 7 though not 2. But his motor is fine. He plays hard consistently in the NBA. It's just the feel and how slowly he processes that limits him.
@@michaelahurt agreed. I do think Lively kind of proves the case. He's a great player, but that seems like a realistic ceiling for pre-draft Wiseman (or maybe a little higher), but if that's the best possible outcome for your #2 pick, you've got to be disappointed
He's still got one last chance with the pacers, if there is a team that he can work with, its the pacers with their speed and offensive focus. I am not sure he has that desire in him to be great, but if he does this is go time
Having watched him all year in Detroit I do think the desire is there. He was definitely putting in the work and was one of the only guys who played hard all year. He just needs reps. He improved a lot throughout he season though. By the spring he started to become a real presence as a rim protector and he does his job on offense. In the right scheme that simplifies his job on defense he could absolutely be Mitchell Robinson Although I'm not sure that's with the Pacers. Their defense scheme is really wonky and they don't really play with a rim roller
I actually don't think it was a scouting issue with Wiseman -- I think everyone was pretty much on the same page -- but Ant, Wiseman and LaMelo were all boom or bust guys. It was easy to see why it would work and wasy to see why it wouldn't. It was a dice roll. Yes the probability he hits is small but: 1) It's small for everyone and just about every star requires outlier development 2) We're wrong all the time about what guys can and can't do Ultimately the lottery -- for 90% of teams -- is about potential not probability. You have to take the biggest swing you can
@@michaelahurt i disagree strongly that ant or lamelo were boom or bust and as i said i don’t think wiseman ever had a boom in there, his ceiling was always solid good starter
@@benpfeifer8192 LaMelo was a terrible decision maker and didn't play defense in Australia. His jumpshot was also erratic; his mechanics were very inconsistent shot to shot Edwards couldn't make shots or playmake at Georgia and was also a bad decision maker If they turned out to be Jason Williams and Dion Waiters it wouldn't have been remotely surprising.
@@michaelahurt lamelo was an incredible decision maker always lol and edwards still isn’t a great passer, i can give a million reasons why i disagree but that’s all good
@@benpfeifer8192 LaMelo's shot selection with Illawarra was pretty horrific. That's part of decision making. He had elite passing vision but much like J-Will he often seemed more concerned with making the splashy play than the fundamental one.
Crazy work with the thumbnail
Pauseee that title wild
What was the title?
Thumbnail 😂😂went wild
That title is crazy work
Bro you gotta rename that title XD. But in all seriousness, I think the lack of continuity is why he didn't succeed. There really wasn't a team that gave him a 3 year span chance to let him develop. GSW was trying to contend and he was injured during that tenure. DET already had Duren and by then, it was more so him shaking off the BUST label then him actually developing. Really just unfortunate scenario's in combination with his lack of adjusting to the NBA speed. Players like Justise Winslow, and Cam Reddish struggled with this where they were relatively the same player from their rookie year until their inevitable departure.
I live in Indianapolis and so I am a Pacers fan. I stumbled upon your video. Your analysis and description of his shortcomings with video support was excellent.
The outro Pistons minirant got me, lmao
love this analysis, you should do somebody like Jimmer Fredette or Ben Maclamore next
@@Nasiere2x jimmer would be cool
waiting for that Killian Hayes
Love the vid! Memphis fan and born and raised native. I feel like he could have developed way better without Kerr. He’s been notorious for not knowing how and when to use players. Was forced to play Kuminga and stumbled on a gem that was buried on the bench. Would love to see a vid on Kevin Knox as well. Or maybe even prospects you were lower on (and why) the ended up breaking out. Nonetheless, gained a sub from me, great vid!
@@jamesnorris1159 thanks for the love!
I think one of the biggest things was his motor and feel for the game. Since high school, he sometimes was in total cruise control, and on top of that, his feel for the game and decision making weren’t good enough to coast anyways. HS was one of the indicators that he may not be that good.
The thing with Wiseman is he wants to be good he gives good effort, he just has such poor BBIQ/feel for the game. Watching him in Detroit I see the athletic tools pop I don’t think it’s the injuries to blame. He did make some marginal improvements as a rim deterrent down the stretch to his credit. But he still wants to be mainly a post scorer and can’t do the screen/catch lobs/drop D stuff well. He hijacked the offense often in Detroit with his needless post-ups. Monty and Casey seemed to like him though for what that’s worth.
Wild thumbnail
I think there's two events that really hurt Wiseman's development.
1) NCAA - Wiseman really needed that year away from High School to play against strong competition. The NCAA killed any playing time that he would've had against comparable competition. Of course you could also say that him being suspended kept up his mystique and kept his weaknesses from being exposed in front of a bigger audience.
2) COVID - Not only was his college career cut short, but then his draft process got completely upended by COVID. Draft day wasn't until November 18th that year and the NBA season started soon afterwards.
Wiseman lost 2 years of development due to *adults behaving badly* and a pandemic, couple that with the two timelines approach by GSW and it's not that surprising that he failed to develop according to expectations.
You should really compare his development track to two other players, GG Jackson and Jalen Johnson. Both had problematic freshman years, but unlike James Wiseman, they both fell in the draft because of them. However, because they fell, the Grizzlies and Hawks were much more comfortable leaving them in the G-League their rookie years (until GG had to be called up due to injuries.) that allowed them to develop limited roles and set them up for a better chance of success.
@@lunarblues ya covid messed a ton of shit up with guys not getting their final aau year. i think jalen johnson was actually a really great prospect who was way underrated but gg yeah
@@benpfeifer8192 JJ was underrated, but his Freshman year at Duke was very weird due to the COVID precautions Duke put in place (Just in terms of life in general much less on the court). Once he left the team, rumors got restarted from his high school days and he fell.
As for GG, what would've happened if North Carolina expected him to come to school early and had a scholarship spot available when he reclassified...
@@lunarblues yeah fit can matter so much for certain kids. south carolina was an absolute mess for sure
@@benpfeifer8192 covid didnt mess things up..... the US response to covid was the real problem. Players would have been fine catching and recovering from covid. Shutting down the league was a bit ridiculous
A moment that will always stand out to me is an early game in his rookie season agains the raptors where he tried to dribble the ball in front of siakam inside the 3 point line, he lost the ball and then literally fell on his face. In a way ive never see an NBA do that before, i couldnt believe what i saw. I think that moment was a indication of how uncoordinated his lower body is, and why thats such a problem for bigs.
cheers for the video
warriors media were saying wiseman missed training camp as a rookie, and thats the reason he isnt joel embiid today
Do you happen to have any background as an NBA scout. Your terminology and analysis is highly technical and insightful! Keep up the good work
He's similar to me. Dude would've been a great long jumper or sprinter.
Hope he becomes an all star.
Change that thumbnail mah boi😂
@@Aventsdor not with this kind of engagement no shot
Did he bust?
Absolutely
Could still become a decent rotation player but that seems like his best outcome. As a top-3 pick that's a bust
He’s about to bust
my one thing with wiseman is that i think a lot of his issues could have been coached but hardaway kept teaching him lots of guard skills so when it came down to big man skills he lacked severity i think ur overstating the athletic tools issues i still think he had the ability to be like an embiid level defender because it’s not like he’s the greatest mover either laterally. wiseman reminded me a lot of embiid but not only did we have the two timelines bullshit but he had no chance to develop because he tore his meniscus and it awoke again the next year and he was a covid draftee so he barely had anytime to ever workout until his 3rd year and off season in which we actually saw him do well on the pistons except he’s buried behind bigs there and now it’s the same on the pacers and u can’t develop without on court reps so even tho he fits the pacers i worry his reps will limit him still. i don’t think it’s just the evaluation but also the coaching and development was horrid for him because a lot of those issues could be fixed
Someone guys I think would be interesting would be Patrick Baldwin jr and Justin Edwards. As you talk about talent evaluation, it’s not their faults but just misevaluated. I was sure Baldwin would be like Michael Porter Jr and Edward’s would be a bit similar to Brandon Miller
James Wiseman has one Title on his legacy already. If he develops along the lines of JaVale McGee, Wiseman ends up with 4 Championship Rings and earns a couple of hundred minimum.
BUST!! HUH? WHAT?
So, is Bust official
why did he bust 🤌😭😭😭😭
Wiseman was just not healthy enough for the NBA. He's still young and raw enough to be good enough in the right situation. Wasn't really gotten a chance on gsw.
I think every time someone drove on wiseman and tried to score on him... they always scored. He was there physically, but it is like he was non-existent.
as a warriors fan, it was annoying to see him just standing around on rebounds. a guy that size with that athletic ability could atleast be involved int he fight to keep balls alive and get rebounds. He just lacked effort a lot.
Warrior was the wrong team to draft him for development....watch him in Indiana 😉💪🏿🔥
Come on, Wiseman prove them wrong
April 10, 2021: Torn right meniscus
Jan. 13, 2022: Arthroscopic surgery
June 13, 2022: Receives orthobiologic injection
You need to do your research.
Knee injuries slowed down his career
Got nothing to do with the fact that he can't read the game at the nba level or his lack of motor.
@@zdiii3795 His motor is fine. That really has not been an issue in the NBA. He's very conscientious and gives good effort. He just doesn't process fast enough.
But the injuries absolutely slowed down his mental development though because he wasn't able to play. He needs reps.
@@zdiii3795 yes it does explain why he has trouble reading the game. He hasn’t had the reps. He hasn’t played enough. Btw that improved under Monty but to your point no college, no summer league, injuries and situation definitely affected his development. For context, this is his second healthy offseason.
This might be a hot take but I think Alex Sarr is gonna have a similar story as Wiseman
Can you do kyrie at duke?
Why? He only played like 10 games
@@MIGGYME1 lol the guy who’s video you’re commenting on only played 3
@@platterboi123 kyrie got hurt,this guy was suspended two totally different scenarios. You want him to make a video about his injury? Smh cmon
@@MIGGYME1 ok and what does have to do with his impact? He still went no. 1 did he not?
Mf why u even talking to me? i asked the owner of the channel, so you can excuse yourself out
He’s not 7’3. He’s 7’1.
Did JaVale McGee fail? Wiseman had no control over when he was drafted.
He simply never had the talent to justify his draft spot. He had some promise, but if there had been a full season I have no doubt he wouldnt have gone that high.
His motor was low and feel was poor in the league, and there was no way to fix that. There was also promise of perimeter skills, but he fell into the classic semi-skilled bigman trap. Once he was allowed to take his jumper he fell in love wirh it, but didnt actually have the ability.
If he improves a lot as a defender and becomes more active on both sides of the ball he'll be a serviceable big. But ultimately he just never had enough to justify his draft position
The semi-skilled big trap is a good call out. For every Embiid there are 10 Wisemans and Bagleys
But if the shooting had hit and he got to play in a scheme like Lively did that was very simplified -- and he hadn't missed so much time -- well that's why you take someone like him at #2 because that's an All Star..
There aren't many 7'1" guys who move like him. He's plenty talented.
In a stronger draft he goes like 7 though not 2.
But his motor is fine. He plays hard consistently in the NBA. It's just the feel and how slowly he processes that limits him.
@@michaelahurt agreed.
I do think Lively kind of proves the case. He's a great player, but that seems like a realistic ceiling for pre-draft Wiseman (or maybe a little higher), but if that's the best possible outcome for your #2 pick, you've got to be disappointed
@@bball767 And that was never gonna happen, because Wiseman was not that level of athlete. He just always sucked.
He's still got one last chance with the pacers, if there is a team that he can work with, its the pacers with their speed and offensive focus. I am not sure he has that desire in him to be great, but if he does this is go time
i hope so
Having watched him all year in Detroit I do think the desire is there.
He was definitely putting in the work and was one of the only guys who played hard all year.
He just needs reps. He improved a lot throughout he season though. By the spring he started to become a real presence as a rim protector and he does his job on offense.
In the right scheme that simplifies his job on defense he could absolutely be Mitchell Robinson
Although I'm not sure that's with the Pacers. Their defense scheme is really wonky and they don't really play with a rim roller
College Ja next ???
No diddy
I wonder why he busted too
steve kerr is a horrible coach at developing talent.
why did he bust 🤤🤤
I actually don't think it was a scouting issue with Wiseman -- I think everyone was pretty much on the same page -- but Ant, Wiseman and LaMelo were all boom or bust guys.
It was easy to see why it would work and wasy to see why it wouldn't. It was a dice roll.
Yes the probability he hits is small but:
1) It's small for everyone and just about every star requires outlier development
2) We're wrong all the time about what guys can and can't do
Ultimately the lottery -- for 90% of teams -- is about potential not probability. You have to take the biggest swing you can
@@michaelahurt i disagree strongly that ant or lamelo were boom or bust and as i said i don’t think wiseman ever had a boom in there, his ceiling was always solid good starter
@@benpfeifer8192 LaMelo was a terrible decision maker and didn't play defense in Australia. His jumpshot was also erratic; his mechanics were very inconsistent shot to shot
Edwards couldn't make shots or playmake at Georgia and was also a bad decision maker
If they turned out to be Jason Williams and Dion Waiters it wouldn't have been remotely surprising.
@@michaelahurt lamelo was an incredible decision maker always lol and edwards still isn’t a great passer, i can give a million reasons why i disagree but that’s all good
@@benpfeifer8192 LaMelo's shot selection with Illawarra was pretty horrific. That's part of decision making.
He had elite passing vision but much like J-Will he often seemed more concerned with making the splashy play than the fundamental one.
No, Wiseman always sucked.
Slid thumbnail