That comment about Frodo being the same in the end really caught me off guard. To me, by the end, frodo seems like a shell of his former self. Like a child that had to grow up fast and hard and wants to go back "home" but, like Rod Serling says in an interview about coming back from the War, you can't go back home. Home was the mental image, the perception that naive child had before "knowing".
When the two guys from the temple (blind not a Jedi and heavy weapons) joined the heroes it felt like a new character joining a group in d&d in where the players don't enjoy role-playing. "hey come with us" "okay" best friends now.
Chirrut and Baze got scooped up with Jyn and Cassian by Saw Gerrera's patrol. Then the Empire vaporized the temple and holy city that they called home with a giant space laser. I imagine that if I got dragged out of town along with some strangers, but while I was away my town had a nuke dropped on it killing my friends and family and destroying my home, and then I learned that the people I was with were dedicated to fighting the people that just nuked my home, I'd probably join up with them too. Or to stick with the D&D analogy, your DM sends you on a quest to slay an ancient red dragon. While pursuing said dragon, you get thrown in a prison cell. You get introduced to your new player's character in said prison, who's playing a cleric from the town's temple. As you're trying to figure your way out of the dungeon, your DM tells you that the dragon you're chasing has just destroyed the town and the cleric's temple. "Hey Cleric, we're hunting the dragon that just burned your town to the ground. We just happened to survive because this prison is underground, otherwise we'd all be dead along with the rest of the town. Wanna join us?" The cleric is probably going to just say "Okay!"
I think the fact that I read your comment and took a delayed amount of time processing who Chirrut and Baze were speaks volume on the development, or at least display, of the character backstories. I loved Donnie Yen's character because he was unique and interesting but most people that I've spoken to only know him as Donnie Yen's character. Anything beyond the surface of the character was quite forgettable. I felt each side character was a missed opportunity, I found myself interested to learn about them and at the end of each scene feeling an 'oh I guess we're moving on from this' feeling (which great action sequences helped remedy). While your analogy is a fair point, it would be strange to think that the Cleric has no life and motivations past the most recent events. That made the characters feel like shallow NPCs in a 'we're just here because this quest is way overtuned for your group and you're going to need some help' kinda way.
+dio52 I think that's what the OP was saying: all of the mechanics make sense, but there was no roleplay. It made sense that they would join up, but the audience is the one who has to make the connection, as we don't even get 2 lines of dialogue discussing the destruction of their city and how the Rebellion is going to end that kind of destruction. It's a minor quibble, but the movie was definitely long enough to include that brief discussion.
I thought the death star eclipsing the sun, from the planet-side point of view was a pretty powerful scene. I'd never thought of the perspective of the Alderanians seeing this thing roll up on their planet. pretty cool.
I dropped out once it went F2P, but SWTOR blew my mind when it let me run around Alderan. Before anyone asks, Ive since went back to TOR and gave it more than fair chances and don't like it in the F2P model
I completely agree about Rogue One adding to the original trilogy where The Force Awakens took away from it. I felt both were just okay films. I enjoyed both, but I thought Rogue One was actually a more solid film.
I loved it, I like a movie with effects but have real characters. It was like a one off D&D adventure, there you end up likeing the new characters better than your old ones
I love how he subtly points to the larger problem of "digging through out parents garbage and playing with their old toys" in passing at the end there and just casually continues to wrap it up.
I would argue that Frodo does have a character arc, he starts out itching for adventure, and by the end he is so weary that he literally sails off into the afterlife, willingly leaving the friend that stood by him throughout everything that happened
Not only is his temple a damn, its on a ridge that looks down on the area where Obi Wan beat him. He relives that failure over and over, the last time he saw Padme, and when he died as Anakin, every day hes at home.
When I watched it, it appeared to me that the blind guy threw in with them because he was so close to the force without being a jedi that he could feel how strong the force was with Jin. At least that's the way I took the progression of the story. Also, the ring thing wasn't projecting the shield, it was just a gateway into it. when you see them close it, the ring pulls a sort of dam out allowing the shield to close in that gap.
Yeah, it's not made clear how that ring can penetrate the shield when nothing else can, but that's how it appears to work. And it just makes tactical sense to put your shield generator BEHIND the shield, where it's safe.
Mythnam Yep I got the impression it was the mass of the two star destroyers crashing that broke the shield. Also it reminded me of the planet shield in space balls! lol
I'm one of the people who didn't notice that Tarkin was CGI. Truly believing in him as a character was a very cool experience. And it's not like I wasn't paying attention, either. You talked on Twitter about Gary Oldman playing Winston Churchill and how utterly different he looks. That was in my mind when Tarkin showed up, and I was convinced that an actor with amazing makeup or something was playing Tarkin. I listened and looked for differences, and I heard and saw them. I wasn't oblivious. But I didn't see that he was CGI; it didn't even occur to me.
I thought he might have been CGI, but I wasn't sure. I left the theater wondering whether they found a good look-alike actor or had done CGI, which I'd say is still a pretty big complement.
I also harly noticed, but many of the more devoted starwars fans at the showing i went to did. A interisting thing was that the people that seemed most botherd about it where people that had watched starwars episode 4 within the last year or so. for me I watched each starwars movie a few times but I think the last time I saw episode 4 was over 10 years ago. So the CGI seemed to be more jaring to people that had the tarkin of episode 4 more freshly in their mind.
Noah Topper I didn't realize it either. I thought something was kinda funny, but I had no prior knowledge so it came as a shock when my buddy told me during the credits. They did a better job with him than Fisher.
The Empire had looted their temple and then destroyed the entire city. The blind force user and the heavy gunner pitching in with the Rebellion makes total sense.
Your reply is 28 words and represents 100% of the thought put into those characters. You're not wrong, but I think a better movie would have put more than 28 words into the character of the film.
This may not be the issue that started the discussion but I think that he was characterized well. That little moment when he spots the Kyber crystal in Jyn and tonic's necklace was well handled and him tagging along was an issue that I could ignore. They were the one ship that was getting them off that planet and after they got back to the base they had taken a liking to the others and wanted to stay with them. This may just be me willing ignore the issue with the film but this explanation worked for me.
I think it is a little deeper than that, sometimes people do what they believe is right, because they believe it is right. I don't need a motive to feed the homeless, other people don't need a motive to fight perceived evil.
On Tarkin, I would have kept him in the reflection or keep his back to Krennic until the test succeeded. Then have him turn to face the camera. That way we set the expectation that we won't see his face, but also build tension for Krennic not being even worth talking to. Then do the reveal once the test works and then Krennic is worth his time.
I loved this movie. I think the thing that got me about this movie was that it maybe the most heroic feeling popcorn movie in recent memory. I love the Marvel movies, but there are no real consequences or cost to their heroism. The last 30 minutes really moved me. Between the X-wings diving for the shield, the corvette sacrificing itself, the guy walking across the field to flip the switch, I felt the impact of rebellion. For the 1st time I felt the cost of standing up to the empire. I understand that people wanted more character development, but I think that would've slowed down the narrative. In a war movie, character is 2nd to the story. I remember Tom Hanks was a teacher in Saving Private Ryan that's all I can recall about anyone in his squad. I can't tell you a single thing about any character in Blackhawk Down. In a war movie, it doesn't matter who they are, it matters what they do. In Rogue One we saw what the red shirts had to sacrifice so Luke could live out the heroes journey. For me Jyn is much more a hero than Luke. She gave her life to do what's right. I think Disney should be applauded for having the guts to make a movie like this.
You know what I thought the first time I saw the part in Rogue One right before Krennik's death? That the Death Star looked like a Beholder glowering down at them. It even fires a green Disintegration beam from its main eye!
I heard that people complain about the CG Tarkin. I loved the idea on the other hand. The writers didn't look for halfassed excuses and stuff to explain why he is not in the movie. They put him in there as best he could, Story came first. Boom.
I thought it was FANTASTIC. As for not understanding/knowing certain characters/motivation of characters....Catalyst, Clone Wars, Rebels. The people that say they only watch the movies and not watch Rebels..not read Catalyst...THAN say they don't get some of it...well..I dont know what to tell ya!
If your movie (or book, or TV show) makes no sense without the context of separate media, you've kind of failed at movie making, no? A person shouldn't have to come to your project with prior knowledge.
Around 24.00 Matt mentions the brilliant design of Darth Vader's fortress. This is a design that was created in the fantastic comics, and I always love when the new movies take stuff from the comics because those people really got Star Wars in my opinion.
About the shield: I'm fairly sure that the device on that part of the shield was merely used to open a breach in it, while the shield itself was projected by something safe on the planet. That seems to be the most.. likely explaination, at least, that's what I justified it as while watching the movie.
"What will you do when they catch you? What will you do if they break you? If you continue to fight, what will you become? " I watched Rogue one hoping to see that quote from the trailer quantified on film sadly I was disappointed. good film though
The "ring thing" didn't project the shield, but rather allowed them to open it. The shield disappeared because it sustained too much damage when that bigass Star Destroyer plunged into it.
Matt, we need more movie reviews from you. I've just binged your Ghostbusters, Star Trek Beyond, and now Rogue One reviews. You make me view movies in a way I have not considered previously. You mention in this video that Rogue One elevates Star Wars. Your reviews elevate my movie going experience. Please, please, keep making these amazing videos.
What I got from the whole sequence of events involving the rebels, is that at the start of the film it was a collection of factions, the senate remnants, planetary representatives, militants and covert operatives, who basically were deadlocked into inaction, and were willing to kill to their own allies in order to not have things escalate into an open conflict, so, it was a messy situation and I think, not very effective as a result.. however, when suddenly faced with the reality of open conflict, they become the rebel alliance, the are united by the sacrifice of others and put selfish concerns aside.
Guess I should clarify I was talking about Raymus Antilles and not Wedge. Wasn't sure who Matt Coville was referring to. I assume it's Raymus because that's who C3-P0 and R2-D2 belongs to, not Wedge.
I'm coming to this way late but I'm pretty sure the ring ship? platform? wasn't projecting the planetary shield. It was the gate that let you pass through the shield. The shield was projected from somewhere on the planet. Much like the shield that was projected from Endor around the the second Death Star. You can't hit the gate with an ion torpedo because you then perma-lock the gate.
The idea of hope is introduced by Cassian. That establishes his ideals, lets us know he is the good guy despite doing bad things. He just isn't a simple bad/good guy. He is the gray area.
I just began watching this video and am here these comments at this moment merely to say how much I enjoyed the dispassionately passionate, reasoned, even-headed and intelligent discussion you just posted regarding Star Wars and The Last Jedi. Thank you for that. And, I did share it with my friends.
Captain Antilles is the tan-uniformed rebel soldier that Vader strangles in Star Wars (1977). Wedge, Red Two in the attack on the Death Star, is his son. Also Wedge is played by Ewan McGregor's uncle.
And for that matter, the same actor who played Captain Antilles at the end of Revenge of the Sith could easily have been cast as Captain Antilles in Rogue One.
I am glad they showed the raw power of Vader at the end of the film, but I do not understand why he did not use the Force to grab the Death Star plans that were feet away from him. He uses the Force to block lasers, lift people, grab them by the neck, etc...
I'm fairly certain the feeling of the film being cobbled together is because it was. It's been documented that at the least ending had extended rewrites and reshoots. Still loved it.
Andor explained why he was going with Jyn very well in that scene. If the rebellion ended there, which it was in the process of doing, then all he did would be for nothing. The rebellion fails and all he ever was is a murderer and a criminal. if the rebellion continues, then he and all the other scoundrels are hero's fighting for something.
Sorry to reply so late, but I think this comment deserves more recognition. It was made very clear why Cassian and the others joined Jyn to get the plans. I don't see how anyone missed it.
Also, that ring thing wasn't producing the shield. The shield was produced on the ground, and the ring was the only part of it that could be opened. Destroying the ring would prevent you from being able to create an opening in the shield.
Another fun fact: tie fighter scene on top of tower scene was cut because an xwing swoops in to save her. Since they just showed that with AT-AT, director decided to cut the second scene, which was the tie fighter
I really wanted that moment when all the main characters are together and bouncing off each other but I honestly can't remember that scene happening. They were, like you say, always on the way somewhere and the time that I really felt for them was when they were looking at the destruction the death star wrecked. All the characters felt something together but that didn't really happen any other time. They just went and did things. I wanted to feel their characters. Also what the hell was that octopus thing? Why did he hint that it might forever erase the mind of the one guy who knows what's happening over all, the pilot, then not have that happen at all? Tension suddenly went slack and no pay off. I just felt a bit disappointed with quite a lot of this film inbetween the bits that I really liked.
I thought a really interesting point was that Vader's temple is on Mustafar in the first place. It's an incredibly subtle bit of characterisation that *perfectly* fits the character.
You know your comment about how a actor in the third movie couldn't stand up to the reputation the Emperor had kinda reminded me of Frasier. They always talk about Niles's wife but you never see her face on screen
I thought it was clear that Casssian joined Jyn's suicide mission because the alternative was the end of the rebellion and whatever was driving him to fight and whatever was driving him to commit suck questionable actions made it hard for him to allow for that possibility. In a sense all those dark deeds were for nothing if the rebellion disbands. And Frodo was definitely not the same at the end of LOTR as he was at the beginning, I don't even know what you are talking about. That adventure damn near killed his ability to feel joy and left him darker and more damaged than he ever was beforehand. But I agree not every character needs an arc. In fact, in reality, it's hard to make people change. The best predictor of how a person will act or react is how what they've done in the past. Also, you did see Raymus Antilles in Star Wars. Vader strangles him at the beginning of the movie on the Tantive IV
I'm glad I watched this after putting it off for so long. I love all of yourD&D content and I'm ashamed to say that I was afraid of watching this because I was afraid of you bashing on Rogue One for the reasons everyone bashes Rogue One but this was one of the most well thought out dissections of this move. I love your videos and I love you're creative voice. Much Love Matthew Colville, you resonate so much with me and and I love listening to the way you think. You just blow-up the ideas that lay latent in my mind and make them so much more deep. Sorry for gushing but yeah, you're the best.
As someone who didn't remember Tarkin at all, I did not realise he was CG. I thought he was played and acted just like everyone else. I think when you have the awareness that something isn't right you can jump to conclusions because of it
I can totally see your point about it feeling constructed. The whole time I was watching it all I could think about was playing the scenes as Imperial Assault missions.
Wedge Antilles is an awesome, amazing character. If you truly want more of him, read the X-Wing series of novels. Fair warning: they're definitely not great novels, but the characters that inhabit them feel much more like Star Wars to me than the movies, heh. I think because I only saw the movies a few times as a kid, but I read and re-read those novels (and many others in the EU)... Rogue One, to me, is the first (hopefully not the last) of the Star Wars movies that feel like EU to me, not "The Skywalker Saga" that is the main line of movies.
I was wondering what I felt was off and your description about it being cobbled together after being torn apart makes sense. I found it as an "OK" movie, I had fun watching it and it fills a gap.
The characters played by Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen were the guardians of the Jedi Temple. They had been watching (semi-) helplessly as the Empire plundered the kyber crystals from the temple. That's why they joined up with the Felicity Jones' character to get the plans. They were still doing their jobs. There were several parts that left me confused. They involved seeing something happen and then arguing about it. The attempted assassination of Mads Mikkelsen's character and the Death Star in action were the two biggies. My thoughts on those argument scenes were to supposedly show how people could be in denial in horrible circumstances. That seemed too deep for a cut-and-dry universe like the Star Wars universe has been.
I liked the movie. Could've been better, but I'm satisfied. I hated TFA so this one gave me hope. On the last scene with Vader, something incredible happened to me. For a second, my brain believed I was there, at the end of the corridor, watching as Vader came closer, relentless, like an unstoppable force of nature. It scared the shit out of me.
Really liked your review. Just FYI about 39:00 : We have actually seen Captain Antilles in Ep. III, IV and Rogue One. In Ep. III he get's C3-PO and R2-D2 and was told to wipe C3-POs memory. In Ep. IV he's the guy that Vader chokes to death. In Rogue One he hands over the Deathstar plans to Leia. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Raymus_Antilles
Matt, great video! I really like how you pointed out that one of the merits of Rogue One is that it improves Star Wars (1977), while The Force Awakens cheapens the previous films. I completely agree that the movie is really flawed but I loved it as well. I usually am just here for your D&D stuff but this was some excellent analysis and I greatly enjoyed the video. Keep it up!
the ring did produce the shield, it was only a means of temporarily blocking it long enough to allow passage through. The shield generator would have been on the planet similarly to how the rebels had one on Hoth but much more powerful.
I finally got a Kindle, a gift. And purposefully waited till I had one to buy your books. I just finished Priest, and I really liked it, I loved it. Very well done sir! Onto Thief now ;)
Ed Greenwood once told me that if I were serious about writing a script for a Forgotten Realms series then it needs to be about "HOPE". So far I'm 8 episodes in and I'm afraid that it's too dark(esp after seeing Honor Among Thieves) in a 1371DR Realms that needs hope. ☹️
Sometimes I think we as older adults (having seen so many movies) tend to overthink the structure of a movie. For me, I went into Rogue One wiping that predetermined sense of "structure" clean from my mind. I knew this was a story about those that sacrificed for the rebellion. Rogue One for me is my 4th favorite Star Wars movie behind those 1st 3 that I grew up with.
He was ordered to kill Galen Erso to protect the secrecy of the flaw. The rebels suspected that sooner (rather than later) the Empire would find him out and torture out all his secrets. This was what I immediately suspected when he was ordered to kill Galen. I thought it was obvious. Made total sense. That kind of reasoning was what they displayed in the first murder my Cassian. Kill to protect the secrets the rebellion knows.
I briefly scrolled through the comments, but if you watch the movie closely, the ring was used to create an opening in the shield. I'm not sure where the shield was projected from (assuming from the planet because why put the weakness on the outside when it protects the planet) but it wasn't from the ring.
Matt. I had heard that the Tie-fighter fighter scene was removed because of redundancy. Like the X-wing taking out the AT-ST walker as you thought it would destroy the heroes on the ground, the Tie fighter was gonna be blown away by an X-wing before shooting Jen. They did not want two scenes using the same action scene device, so they cut the Tie fighter scene.
Vader's Temple is on Mustafar.. Where he was burned and disfigured. So he went back to the site of his greatest defeat and brought the literal lava to heel.
At this point, the Rebellion is willing to negotiate with the Empire, Mon Mothma said that there plan was to get Galen Esro to testify to the Senate about the Death Star. Some of the rebellion think that they can avoid war, but with the Death Star and the dissembling of Senate in a New Hope, it is inevitable.
I agree with you in that I loved it, but there were definitely issues. For example, I couldn't tell you what the names of any of the characters were except Jyn Erso, Galen Erso, and "Pilot." I don't know what makes the names just slide off in this movie and stick in others. Maybe they just didn't use each others' names enough? I did hear that Disney had the movie re-cut earlier this year. That might be the source of the "cobbled together" feel you spoke of.
I was annoyed when I saw on Twitter that you threw out your initial attempt at this video and were re-doing it. I thought, come on man, stop being such a perfectionist. We've waited long enough! But I see that I was wrong, as your analysis here is educational, interesting, and entertaining.
I asked only one thing from Rogue One, and that was to show me the fear Darth Vader would impart to a rebel squad he engaged with. So I came out of the theater happy, but wishing they had added one or two more scenes like that.
I really enjoyed Rogue One. I loved that they changed some of the iconic stuff - the music, the scroll, the type of ending - but then that made it even more disappointing when they threw in unnecessary scenes just to show off original characters. My friend actually leaned over during the movie when R2 and 3PO show up and said "Member C3PO?" and I thought that was terribly apt.
Rogue One felt like an old WW2 movie to me, like Midway or Tora Tora Tora, but set in this fantastic setting that I love. That's what I loved about it.
And yeah, ended super cool. Also explains why, when the princess is saying she is on a diplomatic mission Vader is having NONE of it. I think I understand why he is seething now. ..."tear this ship apart!"
Like you Matt, I love the movie, and believe it is better than the sum of its parts. I thought it might have been more interesting to see Tarkin command the shield to be lowered, so that he could shoot the city/facility, and (unknowing to him) let the Rebels simply broadcast the signal out. In a way, seeing the rebels fail until the Empire basically trips itself seemed more poetic to me. (And that way avoid the rather ridiculous small ship destroying two star destroyers and the shield-ring-thing.) Also, I had a hard time believing that none of those guys on the planet (erso, etc) could not find a imperial shuttle/ship to get into and survive.
I just watched it for the 3rd time today. I think it was an awesome addition to the Star Wars story. For me it ranks up close to Empire and the way it dovetailed into ANH was awesome. I did not expect that.
I didn't really understand what "script doctor" meant before watching Matt's analysis of Rogue One. Hopefully they ask for his input on Legendary's Dune.... :)
The main sin for me in this movie is what you were talking about with regards to not getting any of those moments with each of the characters that would really get us invested in them. The result for me was an inability to really care about them and thus ultimately not have any emotional response to their death. It was all just stuff that happened. Making those missing scenes hurt that much more was the fact that we had all those cameos and such tossed in, the majority of which served no purpose other than just nostalgia-porn. It's like they prioritized reminding the audience why they like Star Wars instead of showing the audience why they should like this specific movie and the characters within it. As a result, I walked out of the movie feeling very little about it. It's the only Star Wars movie that has left me feeling so apathetic upon its first viewing (when I'm usually at my least critical and just going along for the ride). Even the prequels, which I don't much care for, still had me walking out of the theater upon their first viewing feeling generally positive about that initial experience. I can forgive a lot in a movie if it at least succeeds in making me feel something, but it's very hard to get past apathy.
The ring wasn't the shield projector, it was a gate to bypass the shield. Regardless the hammerhead maneuver would've saved them a lot of time if they had done it earlier. Also they should've ended the movie when Darth Vader reaches the launch bay and stares out at the ship which got away. Would've been extremely effective.
I thought the set and the clothing designs were the real winners of the movie. They held me in the Star Wars Universe. The layers of quilted clothing and mixture of unexplained tech and armor worn by characters was fantastic. My big complaint was that Captain Andor's blaster was a damn AR-15. It's the most prominent gun in this day and age and they did little to nothing to hide it's body or shape it into an unrecognized new forum.
You've seen Captain Antilles already, Matt. He's the guy who gets strangled by Vader at the beginning of Star Wars. He's also the one who hands the plans off to Leia in Rogue One. You also see him towards the end of Episode III.
I think Matt understandably just confused Captain Raymus Antilles of the Tantive IV with the Rebel pilot Captain Wedge Antilles. They are interestingly not family.
If Rogue One makes people watch Donnie Yen in the Ip Man trilogy and give him the props he deserves, everything is good with the world. Edit: The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the inclusion of Tarkin. Not because he looked bad, I thought he looked good, but because Peter Cushing has been dead a while and it doesn't gel with me to put CGI people in your movie without their consent. Just cast a look-a-like and play it straight, like they did with Mon Mothma.
Interestingly many people feel that Rogue One "destroyed" Star Wars 1977, because it was not Luke Skywalker or his Mastery of the Force that destroyed the Death Star but it was the engineer that built the Death Star incorporating a fatal flaw that ANYBODY could have exploited.
As Rogue One's credits started rolling my body just went numb on my theater seats. Man I got so many good emotions watching that film. Mostly because it brought me back to many gret moments in a 3 year Star Wars Saga campaign where our characters are basically Cassian Andor when he shot the rebel informant. As cool scenes rolled by and I answered my cousin's "Who was that?" I was remembering epic scenes in our game and sharing them with him feeling like "Man, that looks just like what happened in my game! We must play a Star Wars game together one day!". And when anything makes me go to that "I wanna play RPG right now" headspace, well, it's fucking amazing to me.
You nailed it, but I think wrapping it up, what really sold Rogue One was that it was the first of the films since Return of the Jedi to actually capture the Star Wars Universe believably.
About the Cpts motivation, also all the other "assassins", signing up with Jin I think was that they had done horrible things in the name of the rebellion but at this point the leaders were willing to give up the whole cause and end everything they had made sacrifices for. So to them going with Jin meant a chance to maintain that cause, that their actions had meaning towards something good and for the better who ever comes after them.
I thought that the shield projector/generator remained unseen on the planet and the station simply served as the gateway to be able to pass through it. That would explain why all the characters planetside were reacting in the way they were (throwing in everything they had at every moment), because they all knew that no matter how this played out none of them were getting past the shield and off that planet. Speaking of which, I just want to give a little shout out to the fact that one the Rebel reinforcements in this last battle can be heard shouting "For Jedha!" as he jumps into the fray, I thought that was a real nice touch. I got the sense (not sure where from) that the assault against the station was less about taking down the shield entirely and more about opening a hole through which to transmit the plans. Even once the station was destroyed, I didn't think the shield was down. Although thinking about it, the Death Star wouldn't have been able to fire on the planet if the shield was up. I think I have to watch that sequence again for the order of when things took place and what was said. I think Tarkin started the firing sequence even before the shield was down... Anyway, the Y-wings attack the Star Destroyers and not the Station can be chalked up to the Destroyers being a much bigger and immediate threat to the Rebel Fleet. I think it's reasonable to assume that with two destroyers firing on the fleet (with a accompanying 144 TIE fighters in total) they wouldn't have lasted long enough to take the station if the destroyers were not dealt with right away.
Yeah the shield gate was a just that, a gate. It wasn't projecting the shield but the Star Destroyer crashing into it disabled the shield, I assume, because of the shield took so much damage.
Re: Why Andor joins Jyn in the end. I agree that the lack of establishment for the the characters is a major flaw, but I never took issue with with Andor and the other members of the rebellion taking a stand to fight with her and it goes back to Andors introduction. When he murders the informant, you said you believed that the character had done similar things before, and I'd extend that to many of the rebellion having done similarly. If the alliance dies, so did any chance at their redemption for any atrocities they had committed in the name of the greater good. If the alliance failed, there was no greater good left, and they were just killers, for the sake of killing. (written at 16mins in)
As a writer who values character progression, philosophy, and dialogue, I highly recommend the Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic games, both the original and the sequel. The second game (The Sith Lords) has some of the greatest dialogue of any video game I have ever played, and hosts one of the greatest, most complex characters in the Star Wars mythos.
First thing, I'll reinforce what others have said... the ring on the shield functioned like a rib spreader. It opened a gap for ships to pass through, but was not the shield generator (as we recall from Jedi, shield generators are large planetary surface installations. Destroying the ring itself would have locked the shield entirely (which may have been a good siege tactic in a different scenario). Why did Andor continue to pursue Galen after the destruction of Jedha? Because he's a good soldier and he was given orders, which he does not take lightly. We know how committed he is to the Alliance from the first scene we see him in. That's the crux of his whole argument with Jyn. That aside, why still kill him after Jedha? Two possible reasons: One, they were all in Saw Gerrera's prison (except Jyn) when Jedha was destroyed, so they didn't see the Death Star's attack, just the aftermath. Destruction of a single city is well within the capabilities of a Star Destroyer, and it's possible as they fled the destruction that they never saw the Death Star (it may have warped away, it may not have been visible through the dust, they may have exited the atmosphere beyond the horizon where it would have been visible) Two, assuming they did know that the first attack came from the Death Star, they'd had rumors of a weapon that could destroy planets, but at that point it had only destroyed a city. They'd never been on or near the Death Star, so they had no way of knowing whether it was complete or fully functional. Killing the mastermind that designed it could have stopped or delayed its development. Of course, that's really beside the point. The reality, I think, is that the general who ordered Galen killed was an exemplar of the morally dubious side of the Alliance that Andor had to struggle with and he just wanted Galen dead because of what he represented. He wanted a figurehead dead for the political implications. It didn't matter whether the Death Star was complete, the order was punitive rather than strategic. I think the only person who didn't have a clear reason for being with Jyn was Bohdi. I liked the character well enough, but I think the character's role was expanded beyond its initial plan. It didn't seem like he was initially meant to be complicit in Galen's plan. I think at one point they tried to touch on that with a comment about him officially being part of the rebellion, but it didn't quite work completely. Chirrut and Baze made perfect sense to me. They're monks, guardians of the Jedi temple in Jedha. They're automatically going to be uncooperative with the Empire. They intervene in the city center because that's what a Jedi would do, not out of any sense of loyalty to Jyn. They just happened to get scooped up by Gerrera's people along with Andor and Jyn Had Jedha and the temple not been destroyed, they'd probably have stayed behind, but as they were able to escape the destruction and later learn about the Death Star, the choice to fight with Jyn becomes pretty obvious.
"I would be really disappointed if I saw the Kessel Run." Thinking back to Solo; me too.
was thinking the same at that part of the video 😂
That comment about Frodo being the same in the end really caught me off guard. To me, by the end, frodo seems like a shell of his former self. Like a child that had to grow up fast and hard and wants to go back "home" but, like Rod Serling says in an interview about coming back from the War, you can't go back home. Home was the mental image, the perception that naive child had before "knowing".
When the two guys from the temple (blind not a Jedi and heavy weapons) joined the heroes it felt like a new character joining a group in d&d in where the players don't enjoy role-playing.
"hey come with us"
"okay"
best friends now.
+Craig Hyde this is a great description.
Chirrut and Baze got scooped up with Jyn and Cassian by Saw Gerrera's patrol. Then the Empire vaporized the temple and holy city that they called home with a giant space laser.
I imagine that if I got dragged out of town along with some strangers, but while I was away my town had a nuke dropped on it killing my friends and family and destroying my home, and then I learned that the people I was with were dedicated to fighting the people that just nuked my home, I'd probably join up with them too.
Or to stick with the D&D analogy, your DM sends you on a quest to slay an ancient red dragon. While pursuing said dragon, you get thrown in a prison cell. You get introduced to your new player's character in said prison, who's playing a cleric from the town's temple. As you're trying to figure your way out of the dungeon, your DM tells you that the dragon you're chasing has just destroyed the town and the cleric's temple.
"Hey Cleric, we're hunting the dragon that just burned your town to the ground. We just happened to survive because this prison is underground, otherwise we'd all be dead along with the rest of the town. Wanna join us?"
The cleric is probably going to just say "Okay!"
not enough thumbs up. You were shown, not told and thats against star wars as Matt has said (somewhat).
I think the fact that I read your comment and took a delayed amount of time processing who Chirrut and Baze were speaks volume on the development, or at least display, of the character backstories.
I loved Donnie Yen's character because he was unique and interesting but most people that I've spoken to only know him as Donnie Yen's character. Anything beyond the surface of the character was quite forgettable. I felt each side character was a missed opportunity, I found myself interested to learn about them and at the end of each scene feeling an 'oh I guess we're moving on from this' feeling (which great action sequences helped remedy).
While your analogy is a fair point, it would be strange to think that the Cleric has no life and motivations past the most recent events. That made the characters feel like shallow NPCs in a 'we're just here because this quest is way overtuned for your group and you're going to need some help' kinda way.
+dio52 I think that's what the OP was saying: all of the mechanics make sense, but there was no roleplay. It made sense that they would join up, but the audience is the one who has to make the connection, as we don't even get 2 lines of dialogue discussing the destruction of their city and how the Rebellion is going to end that kind of destruction. It's a minor quibble, but the movie was definitely long enough to include that brief discussion.
I thought the death star eclipsing the sun, from the planet-side point of view was a pretty powerful scene. I'd never thought of the perspective of the Alderanians seeing this thing roll up on their planet. pretty cool.
I dropped out once it went F2P, but SWTOR blew my mind when it let me run around Alderan.
Before anyone asks, Ive since went back to TOR and gave it more than fair chances and don't like it in the F2P model
"Everything bad in Star Wars comes from trusting technology."
Artoo: *sad boop*
I completely agree about Rogue One adding to the original trilogy where The Force Awakens took away from it. I felt both were just okay films. I enjoyed both, but I thought Rogue One was actually a more solid film.
Now everytime someone says Star Wars my mind will whisper "1977"
When you say you like movies that are about "getting the team together " I think that explains a lot about why you like D&D.
I loved it, I like a movie with effects but have real characters. It was like a one off D&D adventure, there you end up likeing the new characters better than your old ones
Fittingly ending with a TPK.
With a healthy spicing of epic destiny or legacy put in.
...it was an adventure... Sorry you didn't like it. Too bad it's good.
I love how he subtly points to the larger problem of "digging through out parents garbage and playing with their old toys" in passing at the end there and just casually continues to wrap it up.
It's unironically a rather significant problem.
I would argue that Frodo does have a character arc, he starts out itching for adventure, and by the end he is so weary that he literally sails off into the afterlife, willingly leaving the friend that stood by him throughout everything that happened
He nevers itch for adventure, he is just doing what is right.
I was really glad that they included the "You may fire when ready" line.
Not only is his temple a damn, its on a ridge that looks down on the area where Obi Wan beat him. He relives that failure over and over, the last time he saw Padme, and when he died as Anakin, every day hes at home.
When I watched it, it appeared to me that the blind guy threw in with them because he was so close to the force without being a jedi that he could feel how strong the force was with Jin. At least that's the way I took the progression of the story. Also, the ring thing wasn't projecting the shield, it was just a gateway into it. when you see them close it, the ring pulls a sort of dam out allowing the shield to close in that gap.
Yeah, it's not made clear how that ring can penetrate the shield when nothing else can, but that's how it appears to work. And it just makes tactical sense to put your shield generator BEHIND the shield, where it's safe.
Mythnam Yep I got the impression it was the mass of the two star destroyers crashing that broke the shield.
Also it reminded me of the planet shield in space balls! lol
I'm one of the people who didn't notice that Tarkin was CGI. Truly believing in him as a character was a very cool experience. And it's not like I wasn't paying attention, either. You talked on Twitter about Gary Oldman playing Winston Churchill and how utterly different he looks. That was in my mind when Tarkin showed up, and I was convinced that an actor with amazing makeup or something was playing Tarkin. I listened and looked for differences, and I heard and saw them. I wasn't oblivious. But I didn't see that he was CGI; it didn't even occur to me.
Same here!
Noah Topper I was the same
I thought he might have been CGI, but I wasn't sure. I left the theater wondering whether they found a good look-alike actor or had done CGI, which I'd say is still a pretty big complement.
I also harly noticed, but many of the more devoted starwars fans at the showing i went to did.
A interisting thing was that the people that seemed most botherd about it where people that had watched starwars episode 4 within the last year or so.
for me I watched each starwars movie a few times but I think the last time I saw episode 4 was over 10 years ago.
So the CGI seemed to be more jaring to people that had the tarkin of episode 4 more freshly in their mind.
Noah Topper I didn't realize it either. I thought something was kinda funny, but I had no prior knowledge so it came as a shock when my buddy told me during the credits. They did a better job with him than Fisher.
Love how he says “I don’t wanna see the Kessel run” and later solo gets released
The Empire had looted their temple and then destroyed the entire city. The blind force user and the heavy gunner pitching in with the Rebellion makes total sense.
Your reply is 28 words and represents 100% of the thought put into those characters. You're not wrong, but I think a better movie would have put more than 28 words into the character of the film.
The only thing I can think of to justify it beyond that was that the force tells him to follow them, that that is where his destiny is.
This may not be the issue that started the discussion but I think that he was characterized well. That little moment when he spots the Kyber crystal in Jyn and tonic's necklace was well handled and him tagging along was an issue that I could ignore. They were the one ship that was getting them off that planet and after they got back to the base they had taken a liking to the others and wanted to stay with them.
This may just be me willing ignore the issue with the film but this explanation worked for me.
I think it is a little deeper than that, sometimes people do what they believe is right, because they believe it is right. I don't need a motive to feed the homeless, other people don't need a motive to fight perceived evil.
He was someone who worshiped the force so that would make sense for his character.
On Tarkin, I would have kept him in the reflection or keep his back to Krennic until the test succeeded. Then have him turn to face the camera. That way we set the expectation that we won't see his face, but also build tension for Krennic not being even worth talking to. Then do the reveal once the test works and then Krennic is worth his time.
I loved this movie. I think the thing that got me about this movie was that it maybe the most heroic feeling popcorn movie in recent memory. I love the Marvel movies, but there are no real consequences or cost to their heroism. The last 30 minutes really moved me. Between the X-wings diving for the shield, the corvette sacrificing itself, the guy walking across the field to flip the switch, I felt the impact of rebellion. For the 1st time I felt the cost of standing up to the empire. I understand that people wanted more character development, but I think that would've slowed down the narrative. In a war movie, character is 2nd to the story. I remember Tom Hanks was a teacher in Saving Private Ryan that's all I can recall about anyone in his squad. I can't tell you a single thing about any character in Blackhawk Down. In a war movie, it doesn't matter who they are, it matters what they do. In Rogue One we saw what the red shirts had to sacrifice so Luke could live out the heroes journey. For me Jyn is much more a hero than Luke. She gave her life to do what's right. I think Disney should be applauded for having the guts to make a movie like this.
This is a balm to the news of Carrie Fisher's passing, on my birthday no less. ugh. sorely will we miss our princess and may the force be with her.
You know what I thought the first time I saw the part in Rogue One right before Krennik's death? That the Death Star looked like a Beholder glowering down at them. It even fires a green Disintegration beam from its main eye!
I heard that people complain about the CG Tarkin. I loved the idea on the other hand. The writers didn't look for halfassed excuses and stuff to explain why he is not in the movie. They put him in there as best he could, Story came first. Boom.
I thought Tarkin was well done. I agree, he needed to be in the movie, having someone else would not have worked IMO.
1234kalmar Tarkin needed to be in the movie, and they did they best they could. Still looked like crap.
Better than excuses why the story is limping.
I thought it was FANTASTIC.
As for not understanding/knowing certain characters/motivation of characters....Catalyst, Clone Wars, Rebels.
The people that say they only watch the movies and not watch Rebels..not read Catalyst...THAN say they don't get some of it...well..I dont know what to tell ya!
If your movie (or book, or TV show) makes no sense without the context of separate media, you've kind of failed at movie making, no? A person shouldn't have to come to your project with prior knowledge.
Around 24.00 Matt mentions the brilliant design of Darth Vader's fortress. This is a design that was created in the fantastic comics, and I always love when the new movies take stuff from the comics because those people really got Star Wars in my opinion.
About the shield: I'm fairly sure that the device on that part of the shield was merely used to open a breach in it, while the shield itself was projected by something safe on the planet. That seems to be the most.. likely explaination, at least, that's what I justified it as while watching the movie.
"What will you do when they catch you? What will you do if they break you? If you continue to fight, what will you become? " I watched Rogue one hoping to see that quote from the trailer quantified on film sadly I was disappointed. good film though
"Frodo is the same in the beginning as he is in the end"?!
Yeah, he's the same person at the start and the end, he's just traumatized at the end
Man I love that actor from Magnificent 7. The great escape is one of my favorite movies and his performance as Danny is amazing.
The "ring thing" didn't project the shield, but rather allowed them to open it. The shield disappeared because it sustained too much damage when that bigass Star Destroyer plunged into it.
Matt, we need more movie reviews from you. I've just binged your Ghostbusters, Star Trek Beyond, and now Rogue One reviews. You make me view movies in a way I have not considered previously. You mention in this video that Rogue One elevates Star Wars. Your reviews elevate my movie going experience.
Please, please, keep making these amazing videos.
What I got from the whole sequence of events involving the rebels, is that at the start of the film it was a collection of factions, the senate remnants, planetary representatives, militants and covert operatives, who basically were deadlocked into inaction, and were willing to kill to their own allies in order to not have things escalate into an open conflict, so, it was a messy situation and I think, not very effective as a result.. however, when suddenly faced with the reality of open conflict, they become the rebel alliance, the are united by the sacrifice of others and put selfish concerns aside.
Captain Antilles is the guy Darth Vader murders by choking out the first thing in Star Wars: A New Hope you were speaking of.
KevlarIlluminati Nope, Wedge Antilles is not that dude.
Guess I should clarify I was talking about Raymus Antilles and not Wedge. Wasn't sure who Matt Coville was referring to. I assume it's Raymus because that's who C3-P0 and R2-D2 belongs to, not Wedge.
Wedge is not the Captain Antilles Matt was talking about, as Kevlar clarified.
39:00 - You *do* get to see Captain Antilles, in SW 1977, when Darth Vader breaks his neck.
I'm coming to this way late but I'm pretty sure the ring ship? platform? wasn't projecting the planetary shield. It was the gate that let you pass through the shield. The shield was projected from somewhere on the planet. Much like the shield that was projected from Endor around the the second Death Star. You can't hit the gate with an ion torpedo because you then perma-lock the gate.
The idea of hope is introduced by Cassian. That establishes his ideals, lets us know he is the good guy despite doing bad things. He just isn't a simple bad/good guy. He is the gray area.
As soon as my wife and I finished watching Rogue One we went home and put on Star Wars (1977).
I just began watching this video and am here these comments at this moment merely to say how much I enjoyed the dispassionately passionate, reasoned, even-headed and intelligent discussion you just posted regarding Star Wars and The Last Jedi. Thank you for that. And, I did share it with my friends.
Captain Antilles is the tan-uniformed rebel soldier that Vader strangles in Star Wars (1977). Wedge, Red Two in the attack on the Death Star, is his son.
Also Wedge is played by Ewan McGregor's uncle.
And for that matter, the same actor who played Captain Antilles at the end of Revenge of the Sith could easily have been cast as Captain Antilles in Rogue One.
I am glad they showed the raw power of Vader at the end of the film, but I do not understand why he did not use the Force to grab the Death Star plans that were feet away from him. He uses the Force to block lasers, lift people, grab them by the neck, etc...
I'm fairly certain the feeling of the film being cobbled together is because it was. It's been documented that at the least ending had extended rewrites and reshoots. Still loved it.
Andor explained why he was going with Jyn very well in that scene. If the rebellion ended there, which it was in the process of doing, then all he did would be for nothing. The rebellion fails and all he ever was is a murderer and a criminal. if the rebellion continues, then he and all the other scoundrels are hero's fighting for something.
it had very little to do with Jyn.
Sorry to reply so late, but I think this comment deserves more recognition. It was made very clear why Cassian and the others joined Jyn to get the plans. I don't see how anyone missed it.
It was all about K2S0. He *owned* that movie.
Alan Tudyk is a god. Apparently he ad-libbed most of his lines as well!
Ineverforgetspaces That really doesn't surprise me...
John O'Brien K2S0 was in Moana too?! :p
i liked HK-47 as well.
Even though K2S0 is voiced by Alan Tudyk (awesome actor) I could not help but think of Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory.
Also, that ring thing wasn't producing the shield. The shield was produced on the ground, and the ring was the only part of it that could be opened. Destroying the ring would prevent you from being able to create an opening in the shield.
Another fun fact: tie fighter scene on top of tower scene was cut because an xwing swoops in to save her. Since they just showed that with AT-AT, director decided to cut the second scene, which was the tie fighter
I really wanted that moment when all the main characters are together and bouncing off each other but I honestly can't remember that scene happening. They were, like you say, always on the way somewhere and the time that I really felt for them was when they were looking at the destruction the death star wrecked. All the characters felt something together but that didn't really happen any other time. They just went and did things. I wanted to feel their characters.
Also what the hell was that octopus thing? Why did he hint that it might forever erase the mind of the one guy who knows what's happening over all, the pilot, then not have that happen at all? Tension suddenly went slack and no pay off. I just felt a bit disappointed with quite a lot of this film inbetween the bits that I really liked.
I thought a really interesting point was that Vader's temple is on Mustafar in the first place. It's an incredibly subtle bit of characterisation that *perfectly* fits the character.
You know your comment about how a actor in the third movie couldn't stand up to the reputation the Emperor had kinda reminded me of Frasier. They always talk about Niles's wife but you never see her face on screen
I thought it was clear that Casssian joined Jyn's suicide mission because the alternative was the end of the rebellion and whatever was driving him to fight and whatever was driving him to commit suck questionable actions made it hard for him to allow for that possibility. In a sense all those dark deeds were for nothing if the rebellion disbands.
And Frodo was definitely not the same at the end of LOTR as he was at the beginning, I don't even know what you are talking about. That adventure damn near killed his ability to feel joy and left him darker and more damaged than he ever was beforehand. But I agree not every character needs an arc. In fact, in reality, it's hard to make people change. The best predictor of how a person will act or react is how what they've done in the past.
Also, you did see Raymus Antilles in Star Wars. Vader strangles him at the beginning of the movie on the Tantive IV
And may the force be with you as well, Matt Colville.
I'm glad I watched this after putting it off for so long. I love all of yourD&D content and I'm ashamed to say that I was afraid of watching this because I was afraid of you bashing on Rogue One for the reasons everyone bashes Rogue One but this was one of the most well thought out dissections of this move. I love your videos and I love you're creative voice. Much Love Matthew Colville, you resonate so much with me and and I love listening to the way you think. You just blow-up the ideas that lay latent in my mind and make them so much more deep. Sorry for gushing but yeah, you're the best.
As someone who didn't remember Tarkin at all, I did not realise he was CG. I thought he was played and acted just like everyone else. I think when you have the awareness that something isn't right you can jump to conclusions because of it
IP Man is really great. I'm glad your friends recommended it to you.
I can totally see your point about it feeling constructed. The whole time I was watching it all I could think about was playing the scenes as Imperial Assault missions.
There was a mention of Captain Antilles in Rogue One, I think. When Bail Organa was leaving to inform Princess Leia, presumably.
Wedge Antilles is an awesome, amazing character. If you truly want more of him, read the X-Wing series of novels. Fair warning: they're definitely not great novels, but the characters that inhabit them feel much more like Star Wars to me than the movies, heh. I think because I only saw the movies a few times as a kid, but I read and re-read those novels (and many others in the EU)... Rogue One, to me, is the first (hopefully not the last) of the Star Wars movies that feel like EU to me, not "The Skywalker Saga" that is the main line of movies.
Captain Antilles is the rebel guy who has been chocked by Vader in episode 4. He is also in Rouge One, he gave the death star plans to Leia.
I was wondering what I felt was off and your description about it being cobbled together after being torn apart makes sense. I found it as an "OK" movie, I had fun watching it and it fills a gap.
The characters played by Donnie Yen and Jiang Wen were the guardians of the Jedi Temple. They had been watching (semi-) helplessly as the Empire plundered the kyber crystals from the temple. That's why they joined up with the Felicity Jones' character to get the plans. They were still doing their jobs.
There were several parts that left me confused. They involved seeing something happen and then arguing about it. The attempted assassination of Mads Mikkelsen's character and the Death Star in action were the two biggies. My thoughts on those argument scenes were to supposedly show how people could be in denial in horrible circumstances. That seemed too deep for a cut-and-dry universe like the Star Wars universe has been.
I liked the movie. Could've been better, but I'm satisfied. I hated TFA so this one gave me hope.
On the last scene with Vader, something incredible happened to me. For a second, my brain believed I was there, at the end of the corridor, watching as Vader came closer, relentless, like an unstoppable force of nature. It scared the shit out of me.
Really liked your review. Just FYI about 39:00 : We have
actually seen Captain Antilles in Ep. III, IV and Rogue One. In Ep. III he get's C3-PO and R2-D2 and was told to wipe C3-POs memory. In Ep. IV he's the guy that Vader chokes to death. In Rogue One he hands over the Deathstar plans to Leia. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Raymus_Antilles
Matt, great video! I really like how you pointed out that one of the merits of Rogue One is that it improves Star Wars (1977), while The Force Awakens cheapens the previous films. I completely agree that the movie is really flawed but I loved it as well. I usually am just here for your D&D stuff but this was some excellent analysis and I greatly enjoyed the video. Keep it up!
the ring did produce the shield, it was only a means of temporarily blocking it long enough to allow passage through. The shield generator would have been on the planet similarly to how the rebels had one on Hoth but much more powerful.
I finally got a Kindle, a gift. And purposefully waited till I had one to buy your books. I just finished Priest, and I really liked it, I loved it. Very well done sir! Onto Thief now ;)
Ed Greenwood once told me that if I were serious about writing a script for a Forgotten Realms series then it needs to be about "HOPE".
So far I'm 8 episodes in and I'm afraid that it's too dark(esp after seeing Honor Among Thieves) in a 1371DR Realms that needs hope. ☹️
Also, i think I really want Kenneth Branagh as Captain Antilles now.
Joe Auerbach one of the things that irks me most about disney ditching EU canon is that it makes adaptation of the X-wing books unlikely :/
Sometimes I think we as older adults (having seen so many movies) tend to overthink the structure of a movie. For me, I went into Rogue One wiping that predetermined sense of "structure" clean from my mind. I knew this was a story about those that sacrificed for the rebellion. Rogue One for me is my 4th favorite Star Wars movie behind those 1st 3 that I grew up with.
He was ordered to kill Galen Erso to protect the secrecy of the flaw. The rebels suspected that sooner (rather than later) the Empire would find him out and torture out all his secrets.
This was what I immediately suspected when he was ordered to kill Galen. I thought it was obvious. Made total sense. That kind of reasoning was what they displayed in the first murder my Cassian. Kill to protect the secrets the rebellion knows.
I briefly scrolled through the comments, but if you watch the movie closely, the ring was used to create an opening in the shield. I'm not sure where the shield was projected from (assuming from the planet because why put the weakness on the outside when it protects the planet) but it wasn't from the ring.
I knew exactly what Bronson part you were going to... a top 10 movie for me.
Matt. I had heard that the Tie-fighter fighter scene was removed because of redundancy. Like the X-wing taking out the AT-ST walker as you thought it would destroy the heroes on the ground, the Tie fighter was gonna be blown away by an X-wing before shooting Jen. They did not want two scenes using the same action scene device, so they cut the Tie fighter scene.
Vader's Temple is on Mustafar.. Where he was burned and disfigured. So he went back to the site of his greatest defeat and brought the literal lava to heel.
At this point, the Rebellion is willing to negotiate with the Empire, Mon Mothma said that there plan was to get Galen Esro to testify to the Senate about the Death Star. Some of the rebellion think that they can avoid war, but with the Death Star and the dissembling of Senate in a New Hope, it is inevitable.
Speaking of getting the team together... give me Ratcatchers book three!!
Fun fact: Vader's castle was designed based on concept art from original preproduction of Ep 5 Empire Strikes Back.
I agree with you in that I loved it, but there were definitely issues. For example, I couldn't tell you what the names of any of the characters were except Jyn Erso, Galen Erso, and "Pilot." I don't know what makes the names just slide off in this movie and stick in others. Maybe they just didn't use each others' names enough?
I did hear that Disney had the movie re-cut earlier this year. That might be the source of the "cobbled together" feel you spoke of.
they didn't use the names enough... I mean, Chirrut Imwe and Baze Malbus are pretty badass names to me
I was annoyed when I saw on Twitter that you threw out your initial attempt at this video and were re-doing it. I thought, come on man, stop being such a perfectionist. We've waited long enough! But I see that I was wrong, as your analysis here is educational, interesting, and entertaining.
I asked only one thing from Rogue One, and that was to show me the fear Darth Vader would impart to a rebel squad he engaged with. So I came out of the theater happy, but wishing they had added one or two more scenes like that.
Marty McFly does have a character arc. He learns to walk away from people questioning his strenght of character.
I really enjoyed Rogue One. I loved that they changed some of the iconic stuff - the music, the scroll, the type of ending - but then that made it even more disappointing when they threw in unnecessary scenes just to show off original characters. My friend actually leaned over during the movie when R2 and 3PO show up and said "Member C3PO?" and I thought that was terribly apt.
Oh Past Matt; you’ve got a crazy ride ahead of you.
Rogue One felt like an old WW2 movie to me, like Midway or Tora Tora Tora, but set in this fantastic setting that I love. That's what I loved about it.
And yeah, ended super cool. Also explains why, when the princess is saying she is on a diplomatic mission Vader is having NONE of it. I think I understand why he is seething now. ..."tear this ship apart!"
Like you Matt, I love the movie, and believe it is better than the sum of its parts.
I thought it might have been more interesting to see Tarkin command the shield to be lowered, so that he could shoot the city/facility, and (unknowing to him) let the Rebels simply broadcast the signal out. In a way, seeing the rebels fail until the Empire basically trips itself seemed more poetic to me. (And that way avoid the rather ridiculous small ship destroying two star destroyers and the shield-ring-thing.)
Also, I had a hard time believing that none of those guys on the planet (erso, etc) could not find a imperial shuttle/ship to get into and survive.
I just watched it for the 3rd time today. I think it was an awesome addition to the Star Wars story. For me it ranks up close to Empire and the way it dovetailed into ANH was awesome. I did not expect that.
I didn't really understand what "script doctor" meant before watching Matt's analysis of Rogue One.
Hopefully they ask for his input on Legendary's Dune.... :)
The main sin for me in this movie is what you were talking about with regards to not getting any of those moments with each of the characters that would really get us invested in them. The result for me was an inability to really care about them and thus ultimately not have any emotional response to their death. It was all just stuff that happened. Making those missing scenes hurt that much more was the fact that we had all those cameos and such tossed in, the majority of which served no purpose other than just nostalgia-porn. It's like they prioritized reminding the audience why they like Star Wars instead of showing the audience why they should like this specific movie and the characters within it.
As a result, I walked out of the movie feeling very little about it. It's the only Star Wars movie that has left me feeling so apathetic upon its first viewing (when I'm usually at my least critical and just going along for the ride). Even the prequels, which I don't much care for, still had me walking out of the theater upon their first viewing feeling generally positive about that initial experience. I can forgive a lot in a movie if it at least succeeds in making me feel something, but it's very hard to get past apathy.
The ring wasn't the shield projector, it was a gate to bypass the shield. Regardless the hammerhead maneuver would've saved them a lot of time if they had done it earlier. Also they should've ended the movie when Darth Vader reaches the launch bay and stares out at the ship which got away. Would've been extremely effective.
I thought the set and the clothing designs were the real winners of the movie. They held me in the Star Wars Universe. The layers of quilted clothing and mixture of unexplained tech and armor worn by characters was fantastic. My big complaint was that Captain Andor's blaster was a damn AR-15. It's the most prominent gun in this day and age and they did little to nothing to hide it's body or shape it into an unrecognized new forum.
love your videos, frodo was 100% not the same after his journey
You've seen Captain Antilles already, Matt. He's the guy who gets strangled by Vader at the beginning of Star Wars. He's also the one who hands the plans off to Leia in Rogue One. You also see him towards the end of Episode III.
I think Matt understandably just confused Captain Raymus Antilles of the Tantive IV with the Rebel pilot Captain Wedge Antilles. They are interestingly not family.
If Rogue One makes people watch Donnie Yen in the Ip Man trilogy and give him the props he deserves, everything is good with the world.
Edit: The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the inclusion of Tarkin. Not because he looked bad, I thought he looked good, but because Peter Cushing has been dead a while and it doesn't gel with me to put CGI people in your movie without their consent. Just cast a look-a-like and play it straight, like they did with Mon Mothma.
Interestingly many people feel that Rogue One "destroyed" Star Wars 1977, because it was not Luke Skywalker or his Mastery of the Force that destroyed the Death Star but it was the engineer that built the Death Star incorporating a fatal flaw that ANYBODY could have exploited.
I mean, everybody else missed. And Luke only managed to hit after he let Jesus take the wheel.
As Rogue One's credits started rolling my body just went numb on my theater seats. Man I got so many good emotions watching that film. Mostly because it brought me back to many gret moments in a 3 year Star Wars Saga campaign where our characters are basically Cassian Andor when he shot the rebel informant. As cool scenes rolled by and I answered my cousin's "Who was that?" I was remembering epic scenes in our game and sharing them with him feeling like "Man, that looks just like what happened in my game! We must play a Star Wars game together one day!".
And when anything makes me go to that "I wanna play RPG right now" headspace, well, it's fucking amazing to me.
You nailed it, but I think wrapping it up, what really sold Rogue One was that it was the first of the films since Return of the Jedi to actually capture the Star Wars Universe believably.
About the Cpts motivation, also all the other "assassins", signing up with Jin I think was that they had done horrible things in the name of the rebellion but at this point the leaders were willing to give up the whole cause and end everything they had made sacrifices for. So to them going with Jin meant a chance to maintain that cause, that their actions had meaning towards something good and for the better who ever comes after them.
RIP carrie fisher :(
I thought that the shield projector/generator remained unseen on the planet and the station simply served as the gateway to be able to pass through it. That would explain why all the characters planetside were reacting in the way they were (throwing in everything they had at every moment), because they all knew that no matter how this played out none of them were getting past the shield and off that planet. Speaking of which, I just want to give a little shout out to the fact that one the Rebel reinforcements in this last battle can be heard shouting "For Jedha!" as he jumps into the fray, I thought that was a real nice touch.
I got the sense (not sure where from) that the assault against the station was less about taking down the shield entirely and more about opening a hole through which to transmit the plans. Even once the station was destroyed, I didn't think the shield was down. Although thinking about it, the Death Star wouldn't have been able to fire on the planet if the shield was up. I think I have to watch that sequence again for the order of when things took place and what was said. I think Tarkin started the firing sequence even before the shield was down...
Anyway, the Y-wings attack the Star Destroyers and not the Station can be chalked up to the Destroyers being a much bigger and immediate threat to the Rebel Fleet. I think it's reasonable to assume that with two destroyers firing on the fleet (with a accompanying 144 TIE fighters in total) they wouldn't have lasted long enough to take the station if the destroyers were not dealt with right away.
Yeah the shield gate was a just that, a gate. It wasn't projecting the shield but the Star Destroyer crashing into it disabled the shield, I assume, because of the shield took so much damage.
Re: Why Andor joins Jyn in the end. I agree that the lack of establishment for the the characters is a major flaw, but I never took issue with with Andor and the other members of the rebellion taking a stand to fight with her and it goes back to Andors introduction. When he murders the informant, you said you believed that the character had done similar things before, and I'd extend that to many of the rebellion having done similarly. If the alliance dies, so did any chance at their redemption for any atrocities they had committed in the name of the greater good. If the alliance failed, there was no greater good left, and they were just killers, for the sake of killing. (written at 16mins in)
As a writer who values character progression, philosophy, and dialogue, I highly recommend the Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic games, both the original and the sequel.
The second game (The Sith Lords) has some of the greatest dialogue of any video game I have ever played, and hosts one of the greatest, most complex characters in the Star Wars mythos.
First thing, I'll reinforce what others have said... the ring on the shield functioned like a rib spreader. It opened a gap for ships to pass through, but was not the shield generator (as we recall from Jedi, shield generators are large planetary surface installations. Destroying the ring itself would have locked the shield entirely (which may have been a good siege tactic in a different scenario).
Why did Andor continue to pursue Galen after the destruction of Jedha? Because he's a good soldier and he was given orders, which he does not take lightly. We know how committed he is to the Alliance from the first scene we see him in. That's the crux of his whole argument with Jyn.
That aside, why still kill him after Jedha? Two possible reasons:
One, they were all in Saw Gerrera's prison (except Jyn) when Jedha was destroyed, so they didn't see the Death Star's attack, just the aftermath. Destruction of a single city is well within the capabilities of a Star Destroyer, and it's possible as they fled the destruction that they never saw the Death Star (it may have warped away, it may not have been visible through the dust, they may have exited the atmosphere beyond the horizon where it would have been visible)
Two, assuming they did know that the first attack came from the Death Star, they'd had rumors of a weapon that could destroy planets, but at that point it had only destroyed a city. They'd never been on or near the Death Star, so they had no way of knowing whether it was complete or fully functional. Killing the mastermind that designed it could have stopped or delayed its development.
Of course, that's really beside the point. The reality, I think, is that the general who ordered Galen killed was an exemplar of the morally dubious side of the Alliance that Andor had to struggle with and he just wanted Galen dead because of what he represented. He wanted a figurehead dead for the political implications. It didn't matter whether the Death Star was complete, the order was punitive rather than strategic.
I think the only person who didn't have a clear reason for being with Jyn was Bohdi. I liked the character well enough, but I think the character's role was expanded beyond its initial plan. It didn't seem like he was initially meant to be complicit in Galen's plan. I think at one point they tried to touch on that with a comment about him officially being part of the rebellion, but it didn't quite work completely.
Chirrut and Baze made perfect sense to me. They're monks, guardians of the Jedi temple in Jedha. They're automatically going to be uncooperative with the Empire. They intervene in the city center because that's what a Jedi would do, not out of any sense of loyalty to Jyn. They just happened to get scooped up by Gerrera's people along with Andor and Jyn Had Jedha and the temple not been destroyed, they'd probably have stayed behind, but as they were able to escape the destruction and later learn about the Death Star, the choice to fight with Jyn becomes pretty obvious.