The SM58 Sucks! - A Discussion of Modern Live Sound
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2019
- Today the focus of our discussion is the humble Shure SM58 - and how in its day it was a king amongst microphones (especially in the live sound market), but now it's been superseded by a great number of designs, but somehow a lot of people still cling to it as an example of an "industry standard". Has the SM58 had its day, and are there better alternatives?
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#SM58 #VocalRecording #Microphone
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They're industry standards because of durability, affordability, and rider friendliness. You don't find them in every theatre and live sound company's inventory because they're the best, but because they work. You can mic up any band with 58s and 57s and have a great mix if you're a decent engineer.
👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
@Grungeboy I don’t know. If we are speaking about the Shure SM58… I own and use the same for exact 40 years already 🤨🤔😭
I agree. But the 58 is by far the worse one of the two. It’s a recipe for smashing your head on the wall if you mic a kick with it.
The SM58's limited detail just works better on some voices than a lot of other mics. I bought 10 mic off of Amazon 10 years ago and did a shootout to determine which one I would keep. I had mics that cost 5 times what an SM58 costs and I was expecting to be blown away but I wasn't. A lot of the modern mics made my voice sound harsher. The SM58 sat right in the mix.
@@jessieplaysmusic8530 who the hell is using a 58 on kick? I refer back to the original comment, "if you're a decent engineer". If you are using it on a kick you are NOT decent engineer.
All the microphone in the links are at least double the price of the sm58, not to mention the sm58 is the most reliable mic and has been used for years.... some times there is no reason to move on.
It’s definitely muddy tho
They haven't changed because they don't need too, they work!
“Work” is a very vague term though- a telephone receiver hooked up to an XLR cable works! Still sounds wrong for the modern stage
I like 'em. Is the 58 the best mic ever? No. Is it the best mic under 500 bucks? No. It might not be the best mic at $100.
But when I have an SM 58, my performance never sucks. At least not because of the mic.
So I use a sm58 for online meetings with a focusrite solo. Would I get better background noise rejection with these other mics? Do they have enough gain for the focusrite?
For your setup (i.e., mic not distracting in the video call frame, but still good pickup with minimal noise), you would benefit from a shotgun condenser mic with a super cardioid pattern (your focusrite can provide it phantom power, or depending on the mic, it can likely power itself). This will allow you to have the mic off screen and pointed up at your mouth to minimize typing/click sounds. I suggest testing this out.
I have a bunch of SM58s as my house mics. They're decent enough, predictable, and durable.
I need help, I bought one sm58 but I have the first generation of a Scarlett . The Scarlett solo. The problem is when I connect the mic I have to make the gain up (more than normal) to get good levels but this brings a lot of noise. It's the mic? Or the preamp of the focus? Idk I don't know what should I do. Instruments sounds so soft.
I've also checked my mic cause there are a lot of chinese copies but I think my mic is original. 😬😬😬
U definitely need a cloudlifter/ fathead or dynamite from Se electronics...it gives a clean amplified gain and u dont need to crank the preamp of your scarlett...I use dynamite with sm58 and it sounds like sm57...I use it for vocal recording and i am happy ❤
Eq with some Slate Digital Air for crispiness thats all you need... (home studio specially)😊
look for inline preamps... I find I have success with the Fethead, and some of the MANONO brand (cheap but good)... Don't get the no-name, brands as many are very noisy. You will need phantom power for these.
Speaking of old shure mics, Any experience/comments/tips with the Shure 55SH?
I was just playing New Vegas when I decided to learn a little bit about my 58 and look what I found!
I have an SM58. It is the mic I give to the club announcer when they ask if they can use our PA. Every now and then I wipe it clean of saliva and food debris...
what shotgun mic do you use?
MKH416
I sang with a small choir with The Rolling Stones in the concert in Havana and they put on stage sm58 for us, sounding just great.
whats ur opinion about the Beta series...beta58? etc... id like ur opinion about the e-835...lol
All cool but what do you see as alternatives?
sE V7, Sontronics Solo, Sennheiser e935, EV Cobalt, Audix OM7, Shure Beta 58A, JZ HH1, Lewitt W950… the list is long
I am no expert...but I would think that it would be an advantage to use the same mic, even an SM58....because it would be easier to balance out the sound with all the microphones. But, not sure.
Unlike many people, this video made me think about if it's the time to get another mic and compare with my 58. Probably I can get better result with less effort.
I have an SM58 I use with my Mackie mixer and Marshall acoustic guitar amp. i do really small like karaoke or acoustic. I've read elsewhere that the SM58 is better for loud vocals than the Beta version.
A Microphone is always to be used in a certain context: does it serve the purpose? does it make your signal shine? As for the SM58: Rob Halford is using one live, and back in the day even in the studio, and he has an incredible mic technique. The SM57 was used by Lemmy - well, you don't want to argue that these went together along like fire and flames.
I don’t know how did you come to this conclusion about SM 58 & SM 57? Since you are a professional fellow, I don’t want to argue about your opinion. But based on my experience, I believe they are decent and reliable microphones. I have been having them for ten years, they still work perfectly and so far I had no problem with them, especially in live shows.
None of your points (completely valid) counteract any of my points in the video. Have a watch and see what I’m saying
Usually for live sounds i will use a beta 58 or a senhiser i love using senhisers
I've been using an sm58 as a mono drum room mic 😁
Picked up a couple of V7's after watching this vid. Very happy, thanks.
Put it in front of the 2nd vocalist in the band I mixed Saturday. The lead singer uses a wireless 58. The difference side by side was night and day.
There's such thing as frequency response . Not every mic has the same freq response. FOR me flatness of SM58 is the best thing. I don't like colored mics.
Love the channel. How do you see microphone technology moving forward?
Thanks man. It’s hard to say, it’s moving forward all the time! Shure just released a dynamic mic which eliminates proximity effect, a lot of companies are making equipment with better clarity and feedback rejection- long term I figure modelling will play some part, but that’s got a long way to go before it’s sturdy enough to be in a handheld mic that takes a beating. Maybe 10-20 years then we’ll see! Line 6 already did a vocal wireless mic with modelling in, so it’s all on the horizon
@@adamsteelproducer thanks for replying 🙏
i typically mic my amp with a 57 and a 609 ( well, i quad mic since i have two different speakers. but its two 609s and two 57s. the 609s get a little thin on their own, so i add the 57s for some low mid.
for vocals i run the beta 56a's. yes. that's weird. but hear me out:
yes, the 56 is a drum mic, but, according to shure, its the same mic as the 57a, (which is an instrument mic) but in a different shaped housing. On top of that, according to shure, the beta 57a is the same mic as a beta 58a with a different grille. So I sing into a beta 56a with a 58a grille and it sounds just like a 58a. i filled the 56a grille with acoustically transparent foam left over from another project, and now it sounds like a 58a but with less mudd. don't ask how that works, i do not hav e doctorate in physics
Added bonus, no one tries to take my mic thinking its theirs. it never falls out of its stand. there are way more fake beta 58a's and 57a's out there than there are fake beta56a's ( and the few that i've bought were super obvious fakes and i got my money back. on top of all that, it sounds a lot better than an sm 58.
If I had the money i'd definitely be willing to try something besides shure, but I like how my current rig sounds too much to break it up and sell it to buy others.
I think everyone should have an sm58 in their arsenal as a worst case. i can make anyone sound decent with an sm58. i can make other people sound great with other mics, but if your worst case scenario is an sm58, then you're doing okay.
I always thought my voice sounded a little Richard Nixonny through the 58. Now I know why.
Damn. I just bought 3 SM58s. They don't sound the best for the genre we play in. Looking at the e945s and I'll check out the Sontronics SOLO( looks like they're mainly in the UK) and the SE audio V7. Great info. Thanks
I have e945. Best live microphone that I ever used. 🎤🔥
I guarantee your audience will never be able to tell the difference. Use what you have man.
@@ryanwilson5936 I have to disagree, so often I have heard 58s which are muddy and you struggle to pick up the words being spoken/sung
I got an sm58 about 15 years ago for my amateur attempts at recording at home at the time. I agree that it sounds muddy. Everyone used to use them when I played live 20 years ago and that was why I bought it in the first place. Seems everyone around the world has the same attitude! Now that I'm building up my skills and have some better equipment and software I am definitely in need of a new mic for vocals and sax. p.s. I also have an audio technica midnight blues and I prefer it most of the time.
It's rare I call a mike truly bad, I reserve that for the '58. Just why did you buy one ? Because your pals told you to most likely. That's the way most are bought and perpetuates the myth. Any AT is a step in the right direction.
very interresting. Thank you
I bought an sE V7 for the reason that so many artists were ditching their usual mics for it. Their engineers seem especially in love with the V7, so why, I thought, should I buy an SM58? It just didn't make sense. So far, I've been happy with it.
i got it to but man its super muddy and dark compared to the sm58 =) thank god i have a nasal voice
@@ReXIX2 The muddiness is easily reduced through equalization. Have a look at the frequency response chart in sE's website. You'll find the bass response graph based on your distance from the mic. Make an opposing curve in your DAW's EQ settings. The curve will flatten out. Trust me, it works.
@@ReXIX2 In my tests, at a fist and extended thumb away, I need to take -3dB from the lows--but at a thumb and pinky away, I need no EQ at all. Just thought I'd share that.
I just found that out myself on my latest test recordings it sounds amazing for being an dynamic mic :D
I love sm58 coz its ability of feedback rejection and takes any signal chain like a champ !!! Its legendary for a reason !!!
its got fairly trash feedback rejection esp when compared to like the e835 from sennheiser
Hi. I'm looking for a mic for my daughter. My search initially started with the Shure sm58. Then I came across this se v7.. I think I seen a kid rock signature edition. Also looked at the sontronics solo.
I don't know a vocal microphone from a guitar microphone.
My daughter is 12. Does the pitch of her voice need to be taken into consideration when choosing a microphone.
I read some reviews saying the se v7 has to much presence. Some saying the sontronics solo isn't good for a deep man's voice.
Any help appreciated.
Any signature female microphones?
The se v7 has a billy gibbons signature edition. Would be great if there was an Amy winehouse signature or a Billie eylish signature edition
Hi!
If I were you, I’d completely ignore people saying pitch of voice has anything to do with the mic’s suitability, I think that’s cork sniffing that missed the point.
What’s far more important is can they turn up the mic and have it sounding clear without any issues? In this case something like the V7 is a good option.
Also signature mics are not changed in any way for the artist apart from visuals.
To play devil's advocate for the "That's what everyone uses" arguments. The 58 has proven to be reliable microphone in a variety of circumstances. You can have a singer helicoptering their mic around at the end of his mic cable, banging into the wall, the bass players teeth, whatever. You can be pretty sure the mic will still work with pretty much the same after some abuse. Sure the Audix OM7 is a fantastic mic and will make any singer sound better but in my experience audix mics just aren't as durable and can break significantly easier than any shure. Personally I use Sennheiser e935 If the vocalists I work with are willing. They sound good, reliable and they are easy to clean after gigs.
"Better" in the nebulous world of audio engineering is as subjective and contextual as any topic can be. No better saying is more apt for audio in that it isn't what you have but how you use it and everyone finds this out the hard way after wasting hundreds sometimes thousands of dollars
Funny that when I watched this video, it had 58 dislikes.
Now it has 85 dislikes🤣🤭
By people that were in to SM.
Now it's 158
Great video. I need a mic for flute , hamonica and singing. NOTHING fancy . I'm in between Shure beta a 58 and Sennheiser e945. Had a Shure sm 58 before ( got stolen) , it worked fine but would like to try something a little better .Thanks in advance for any answer.
I've been using an SE V7 for my live vocals. It's the same price as an SM58, but it sounds so much clearer. It's realiable, and the build quality is insane. I feel like I could kill a bear with it, and it would still function
I don’t agree with you. I have Shure Sm58, Sm57, Sm86, Beta 87a, 545SD and 565SD.
Obviously Sm58 is not the best mic I own. But in some cases I like the sound of Sm58 more than Beta 87a in my belted high notes. And for live performance you shouldn’t choose the mic that the singer will use. As a singer and also sound engineer I think that the singer have to choose which mic sound better.
Strictly for vocals, what would you recommend?
Live, something like an sE V7 would be great
After a GAS attack, I switched from SM57 to V7x for saxophone recording. Sound is much more natural. Would not describe the SM57 as a bad mic though.
In my experience I find I typically have to go up in price a little to find something I like as much as the sm58, most modern mics at around $100 sound to bright and harsh to me and many have more handling noise than the 58.
As a house engineer, I disagree. As a band engineer, I agree.
If you're looking for a mic for your band, I think the singer and the engineer should try several mics and choose the one that sounds best and provides good feedback control. I'd also suggest, if possible that everyone in the band uses the same mic and the same kind of monitor, it tends to provide a more stable system. I'm somewhat partial to the AKG D5, which is about the same price, but I think sounds clearer. I also like the EV and Audix vocal mics. But, the best mic for a particular artist is found by trial.
As a house engineer, I prefer the SM58. It's rugged, affordable, it's familiar to artists, and it sounds good (maybe not great, but good) on just about everyone. Some of the other popular mics are more hit-n-miss on different people's vocals. Having said that, a good band with a good engineer using any professional-level gear should be able to deliver a decent performance.
A good, well reasoned argument. However, as a former house engineer myself, I found I could use anything I wanted that was more suited to the task and the artists didn’t care, unless they brought their own mic- in which case the argument was invalid anyway.
I repeatedly found that open mic nights, guest spots and shows in general had clearer sound, less chances for feedback (the same people who didn’t bring their own mic seemed to be the people who weren’t aware waving a mic near monitors makes it howl) and less time spent over the deal finding EQ spots to clear out.
I completely agree that what works best for a single artist could be anything and trial is the best method. Being completely honest though, most people don’t go that far...
"Don't fix what isn't broken" I think is the appropriate saying here.
Plus, the ones you linked cost more than the SM58. And the SM58 has proven itself time and time again to be objectively reliable and durable while being cheaper than the examples provided. And if the problem is the sound, then there are libraries upon libraries EQ profiles, settings, presets that have been created specifically for the SM58 to shape its sound into something more desirable.
So why should I get something that's more expensive when I can get something that's affordable, something that's everyone's familiar with, and is proven to be, as I said, durable and reliable? It makes no sense for consumers to buy the expensive but bette' product, atleast to me, when there is an already existing product that both works and can be made to work better. An upgrade, perhaps? But, just like the saying, why upgrade when it still works?
I think the SM58 is a good microphone but compared to a lot of mics out there now it lacks detail out the box. Of course you can eq it to bring out clarity a bit but out the box it's a little muddy. Plenty in the 58's price range that are better (to me).
@@jasonbodden8816 Can you list some that are better please?
fallout 76 sucks
now THIS i can get behind
I like where this is going
@@Laughys_Madh0use Cyberpunk76
Supercardioid (Beta) picks sound up from behind the mic and on some setups that could be a no-no. The 58 sound is easily adequate for a typical band mix. If there's a virtuoso singer on the stage they sure should have something else. I'd also remind you there hasn't been that much development on for example tables. Sure there are different kinds of tables for different kinds of special purposes but the standard table was mastered already in ancient times and it still is the most popular choice because it works on so many occasions. There isn't that much to improve in mics, especially if they're being used in a band context where there's no virtuoso singer expressing all the nuances of their pipes.
This was entertaining to say the least. They have not changed much in all these years because they are perfect the way they are. Some of us have 58’s older than you so maybe the problem here is just your lack of experience in the business. Thanks for the laugh!
i dont agreed with you on this one. Buuut thats ok :D i think your guitar tone sounds amazing recorded! :)
57/58’s are the most useful mics ever. Especially for vocals. I just bought the SE V7 because it’s supposed to be better. (I was so excited to try it because it was supposed to be better than the 58 plus looked slightly cooler) It does not compare against the 58 when it comes to handling plosives and picks up wind from the vocal even with a pop filter. It’s being returned. How many people have I heard say, get a beta.. get a v7.. it’s clearer.. it literally depends on the vocalist and positioning. I could see if your argument was to try a Senhessier 835.
If you find it’s too muddy.. you’re too close. Even backing up slightly will help. If you don’t like it on your amp, literally move it around until you do.
Sound guys won’t love you because you have a different mic. Likely the opposite. You can EQ a 58 to suit any voice and apply it to nearly any instrument.
Which one do you suggest? Shure sm58 $100, se v7 $90, Sennheiser e835 $50 ? Prices are roughly converted, in my country e835 is half the price of 58
58 price doesn't drop much because of demand
@@PavanKumar-le4qd if you’re on a budget, e835 won’t do you wrong. Great microphone.
@@RandyMatthewsMusic thanks 👍
The 58 is a 57 with a different wind screen
Yes.....?
@@adamsteelproducer so the 57 sucks too
Different transformer
Your comment makes no sense, listen carefully and you’ll see I’m talking about specific applications- guitar cabs tend to be extremely coloured so using an SM mic in that context can be useful because we don’t expect to hear a “good” sound
Then you’re not following the argument. Tonal coloration is acceptable on a source that blasts white noise out (like a guitar), but not in a situation where clarity, gain before feedback and rejection are the ideals (like a vocal)
it would have been nice to watch this video three years ago :/
I have more microphones now but i still use the sm57 sometimes, just a good thing to have close handed to record quick ideas
I've used the Solo twice in live gigs each time it fed back massively and I had to change it immediately. Huge feedback which made the audience cringe. Both with vastly experienced sound engineers. Don't use them with floor monitors.
I use sm58 with a cloudlifter for clean gain and it sounds equal to my sm7b...❤
I'm taking a chance with a Pyle Pro PDMIC59 (Pyle Pro PDMIC58 with an on/off switch ?) for about $ 16. It really looks like a SM58 clone. They have a 3X package for under $ 40. The specs are virtually identical to the SM58 (only difference being the 300 vs 600 Ohm output impedances SM58 vs PDMIC59). Only in the video that I watched, the Pyle didn't have the muddy issue the SM58 did. I agree though, I thought the SM58 was muddier in that video. I also agree that the SM57 seemed to have better tone to it in another video for cabinet mic. In that video the SM58 didn't sound as muddy though, just not as smooth as the SM57 that demo used. I'd say to me it was more a raw and edgier tone when I listened to the SM57 vs SM58. All depends, maybe the SM58 just works because it's a classic tone, that retro 60's/70's vibe, that even 80's & 90's artists might prefer ? Is it the best $ 100 mic any more ? Probably not, but it is a minimum standard of the industry for what one looks for in a mic, so you know what you're getting in that regard. And for $ 100ish MSRP, you can spend considerably more on another product that you may not ever bond with. So I don't have an issue with the SM58 loyalists. I'd rather just say it has it's place & is different, rather than just declaring outright that it sucks. Imagine if an artist produced something with the SM58 that was just legendary.
Thanks, man! I'm going to throw this shitty old Neumann u47 away. My grandpa gave it to me. Can't believe I've been using it so long. Is the Rode NT1 a good upgrade?
That’s not what this video is about and you know it.
@@adamsteelproducer I know what the video was about.
@@adamsteelproducer For the record, man, it was just a friendly jab.
If you can't make an SM58 sound good, you're the problem.
Completely missing the point.
@@adamsteelproducer You mean your disjointed ramblings? No, I followed. But, you failed to say anything of relevance or substance. Again, if you're struggling to work with an SM58, it's your failure, not the mic's.
@@Thrashman138 What he's trying to say is that there are mics out there that require less work than a 58 in order to sound good. I completely agree with him on this topic, the 58 is now outdated with capsules like newer offerings from Shure, Sennheiser, sE, Audix and more.
@@dombrownuk can you suggest one ? similar price, please
@@luisvaldez6295 Se V7, AKG D5 and I think the Sontronics Solo is about the same price
I think those who are properly trained vocally and know how to project their voices would appreciate the SM58 more than those amateur singers since the sound profile of the SM58 does capture the singer’s formant more accurately than many other microphones, even much more expensive ones. It all depends on the talent. No professionals would think SM58 is a bad microphone.
SM57 and SM58 use the same Unidyne capsule. Check it out.
I downgraded (depends on your perception) from the Shure SM58 Beta A to the Shure Sm58 for live use. These are both first class microphones. If you know what your doing, you could make a £10 quid mic sound great.
no matter what you do, the best you can do with dung as the source, is throw a bunch of glitter in it, but its still dung
I just upgraded to the Beta SM58A. It's a bit better for my voice.
I agree with everything you've said here and share your thoughts on the Shure SM series being dated.
One place we differ is in our experience. I've found it's often sound engineers trust the Shure gear and try and insist on using these mics... For example I use a Bluguitar Blubox for live purposes, an IR based solution that sounds like a perfectly mic'ed up cab in a studio with no stage bleed, but sound engineers just seem reluctant to try it over their trusty 57 or whatever mic they prefer! Once they do however, they seem really impressed with the sound coming from front of house - full, punchy, so much clarity...
Basically they're digital recreations of a perfectly mic'ed up iconic guitar cabs designed by Thomas Blug using convolution technology, but you try explaining that to a sound engineer that's worked the hometown circuit for 30 years 😂
I often hear that everyone should have an SM58 because of cheap they are. But the $99 price point doesn't hold true outside of America. In Ireland, they're typically priced at €120 in a brick and mortar store - that's $145. Not that cheap. You're more likely to get a better deal with European mics. Thomann, of course makes things a bit cheaper, where you can get one for €98 but for the Sennheiser e935 goes for just €1 more, and it's widely considered to be a better a mic. So is it's cheaper, not as quite as good sounding predecessor the e835.
FOR YEARS I used an SM58 as my vocal mic...recently I brought my wholly inadequate PA system to my semi-annual barn jam and needed a couple more decent vocal mics so I grabbed a pair of Blue Encore e100s off a 2-for-1 sale (making them 50.00 each)...I hooked one in and could not believe the difference to my "beloved" SM58...more output, better gain, better off-axis rejection, and a MUCH clearer and more balanced sound...for half the price...
I had the Encore 100....but my SE V7 sounds
SO much fuller and rich compared.
I've mixed sound for around 50 years and I've been battling the '58 for most of that time (in early years it was the Unidyne). I hate it with a vengeance as it's so easy to get a better sounding mike that's technically better for less money. The trouble is that almost every musicians tells all their friends that it's the standard and they all gullibly believe it. It's a circular argument, since if everyone buys it believing it to be the case, then it IS the standard for no other reason that people keep repeating the nonsense and buy it !
Most of its colouration comes from the internal transformer that also overloads when inserted almost in the vocalist's mouth (close mike uber LF proximity effect) and makes it sound muddy. Just buy the version without the transformer (SM48) for a near lookalke with a better sound and reserve the '58 for use as a hammer.
Better still, buy something other than Shure.
@@pasoundman wondering what your recommended alternatives would be then, especially for vocals, guitar and bass
@@JustRockMySoul It's helpful to avoid one with such a coloured freqency response. The question is so wide that no simple answer sufices, If you have a genuine interest then please ask a more detailed question.
@@pasoundman man I will buy a microphone under 100 bucks, I need a new mic cardioid, cause my bedroom has a lot of background noise (I live around mechanical workshops, I have a keyboard kind of noisy keyboard and kind of noisy family), I will use it for vocals, (my priority) singing, and maybe to record my classical guitar, I will buy whatever you specifically suggest me to buy, (I don´t care how much I have to equalize if I can get the best quality sound that I can reach for the price. my vocal range is as wide in the bass side as a guitar standardly tuned.
Well, I wish you'd made this a couple of months before I bought an SM58!
people seem to be very 50/50 ab this ;/ looks like ill buy a shure now and some alternatives later and make an opinion for myself lol
Using it because everybody uses. It is a good thing. It means that it's very good and it's good for most people
I've been saying the same thing about 58's since forever. I've always found I can never hear the vocal clearly in a small venue...especially in bars. I play a lot of 'songwriter circle' set-ups where it's often solo guitar and vocal competing against the atonal background noise of the crowd in general. I'll often be somewhere else in the room listening to some of the other players and be thinking to myself, "guitar sounds good...wish I could hear the lyrics". I did a bit of research and switched to a Sennheiser Evolution 835. Even in the monitors, it sounds crisp and clean compared to the 58, and it's pretty much the same price. I mostly sing baritone, with a certain amount of grit here and there. I find the 835's mid-curve really accents that nicely. I don't think I've ever been buried in the mix since (unless that was intentionally done by the sound guy because I insulted him by asking him to switch out the 58 he'd already set up, hehe).
On similar note, when I was shopping for a large diaphragm dynamic mic for my home studio I started looking for budget versions of the Shure SM7. I did a side by side comparison of the SM7 against an ART D7 and even the guys at the store could clearly hear the difference in the low mids. And the bonus...it was less than a third of the price of the SM7. Not saying the SM7 isn't a great mic or that it doesn't have its uses. Again, for me it's about what's going to suit my vocal range and help me cut through the mix with a minimum of corrective EQ after the fact. (It didn't hurt that it was only $129 vs $500.)
The sm57/58 had certainly stood the test of time.
"Sucks" is relative. Bang for buck is certainly a consideration.
Of course, it always depends on your use case.
Your arguments are well placed. #respect
'Stood the test of time' is another way of saying that it's a very old design (from 1966 in fact). That makes it 54 years old. Would you buy any other audio product designed that long ago ? There's way better for not much outlay now.
@@pasoundman I'm all ears. Please list them. I'm using 3 SM58's with Shure A81WS foams (for podcasting), and I must say, they sound quite good.
@@crooker2 Aargh - I wrote a load of stuff and then lost it. Just look at this and ask yoourself if it looks like a straight line, the objective of any decent audio product.
www.google.com/search?q=sm58+frequency+response+chart&client=firefox-b-d&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=xk8IGvhn-ojNuM%252C13DIS5irKl-szM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTZBMabEtheYfz7hcUqH7xN5vb6fA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwim-J3BveXrAhUMRBUIHcadCHkQ9QF6BAgOEFs&biw=1366&bih=626#imgrc=xk8IGvhn-ojNuM
@@crooker2 Fine, and in that application almost any reasonable microphone would suffice. It's not as if the '58 were a truly dreadful mike at everything, it's just that it's uniquely bad at many things it claims to be good at ! Shure has overpromoted it beyond reality and it's there like a wart that casts doubt on their entire range.
Let me ask you if you've taking any independent advice before. I'll wager that you're simply 'following the herd'. Have you even tried anything else ?
Rather than slavishly list those mics that are IMHO 'better' and that is in any event a personal matter, let me suggest why the SM58 fails so badly. Amongst many similar microphones it utiises a microphone transformer. There is no logical reason for this however so let's examine the defects of same. Small audio transformers tend to have frequency response errors and limitations. Compare the '58's response to another mike that uses the same capsule (which is the device that converts sound into voltage and is in fact the bit that counts most). That mic is the SM7B which features a much smoother response.
Aha I didn't lose it. More later. Oh and buy yourself a low cost Audio Technica of similar shape and ask if sounds any WORSE !
@@crooker2 OK, before proceeding, can I simply ask why you are using sound reinforcement mikes for a podcast ? Did you simply already have them ? It's not a sensible thing to do. You need a studio mike. You'll find FAR better in that category.
Randomly checking what's popular today, I suggest you look at the AT2020. It's an electret condensor styled like an expensive high end studio mic and can be had for less than a '58. AT typically don't make duff microphones (Shure DO) and the tech specs are promising.
BTW, does frequency response and polar pattern mean anything to you and can you 'read' either/both ?
SM58 is one of best all round microphone. Came out around 1966 - 1968, not bad. You should try out Shure beta 58, with an improved upper bass and good well controlled middrange & less splashy top end. I find that new boy in town, the SOLO; they tend be a bit toppy for my tast, Ideal for people who love screening down microphone; time will be real test for the SOLO, & they are dert cheap at £70 - 00 u.k.
i laughed when you said that about 500hz
It's all i've got, mate :D
But seriously, i am looking heavily towards Rode NT2-A, miles brighter and cleaner, but not as rock-y, tbh.
do you heave decent sound treatment in your room? (you must have to work with a condebser mic truss me) Also check out the NT1 (not nt1-a) its bright and clean and pretty flat mic imo better than the more expensive nt2a.
IMO The Sennheiser 835 equivalent is superior for overall balanced sound and especially off axis rejection.
It's too late, we've already started commenting. But this is what you wanted, didn't you 😃
How dare you poking a legend?! )
SM58 is good mic. But you have right it is not the better dynamic mic. a lot of people use SM58 and have use to use them simply. And yes it not a reason to test other mic. And a lot of people use Sennheiser mic and are very happy with it.
Gotta disagree here.. I don't normally use a 58 but I like them. My main go to is.. hold your breath... A Shure 565SD. I own a vintage US made one and a new one... Both great but both have different characteristics. I also have a 58 which I like as well and a Beta 58. Never cared for Sennheiser. I've used the e835 and 935.. wasn't impressed. The only one with a damn in my opinion is the e945. It's all opinion though and really depends on your vocal style as well.
None of the bigger mic-tubers talk about the 565SD. I find that weird since that was Freddie Mercury's go-to for live performances. Sure late 80s Wembley had wireless Sony's but for most of his live career, he used the 565.
You can’t buy one new, so they’re a different conversation- some vintage mics are good but if you can’t get them then it’s not useful for most applications
@@adamsteelproducer You can buy one on Amazon for new. It might vary from the original in some way but it's still a 565sd.
SM stands for Studio Microphone. I think the live applications came after.
Pfft! Do the others meet military specs?
Who cares? It’s a mic, not a hammer
@@adamsteelproducer I care! I don't work in a cozy studio. Work live shows for a while, see what divas do to with microphones, dropping them like empty beer bottles when to mood arises. I'll spend 100 bucks once rather than 50 bucks every 2nd or 3rd show. Why else do all other makers compare their work with the SM58? Because it IS the standard!
I do a lot of live sound, thanks. And if singers are going to treat my mics like that, they can have the cheap ones. Besides. By alternative mics are just as sturdy- it’s not the 80s anymore. Well built, inexpensive dynamic mics are plentiful now
@@adamsteelproducer So I'm assuming that you won't be celebrating this Friday. Too bad. The rest of us will have a blast!
Not sure how this is relevant to anything, but I suppose I should celebrate International Red Cross Day...
You ever notice that everyone else compares there mic to a sm57 or a sm58 and yes I have a mic box full of them you just don’t know how to filter your pa
So the SM58 is the Microsoft Office of the audio world? There are better alternatives, but everyone uses it. ;-)
Thanks for this! I guess I'm not alone in what I've thought about SM58s for so many years. I thought the "SM" stood for "So Muddy." I've ended up with an EV RE320 for my live vocals. Love it.
If only more people would try something else rather sooner !
If you can't figure out that a 58 has quite a bit of proximity boost that is easily fixed by rolling off some low end eq you really shouldn't be running sound. SM57's and 58's are actually very good at rejecting feedback if you control the lows properly and as well understand the presence boost they have.
Your "history lesson" on PA systems is truly awful. Yes there have been systems in the past that were crappy but far more systems sounded bad because of either the band itself or the person behind the mixing board.
A mic isn't bad simply because it was designed many years ago. Honestly much about audio was figured out many decades ago. Microphone technology has not really changed all that much, a modern dynamic mic is pretty much works the same as mics from the 60's like the 57 and 58. Many modern mics do have a bit more brightness to them and that's not always a good thing.
“Unless you plan on using it as a baseball bat” holy shit that’s the best thing I’ve heard all summer
35.9k subscribers in 11 months 7k view 149 like 73 dislike hmmm
I agree with the other comments in here that if you cant make the sm58 sound good then YOU are the problem . You don’t know anything about sound if you think the sm58 sucks . I like the 58 because of its warm , clear neutral sound .
The Sennheiser E835 & Audix OM3 are quite nice too. Good video, people are still recommending SM58s in 2019...unacceptable.
Well done Adam. It's always good to challenge the status quo (not the band)
It amazes me that all lead singers, and backing singers don't carry their own mics at all times, they literally fit into a handbag. It's pure laziness if they haven't done any research on what works best for their voice, and the result is they get to use a 58 full of the last gigs flem output. Possibly a just punishment?
I understand your point. But saying the SM57, and SM58 are bad mics... Nah youre crazy... Also remember that the SM59 was created as a fix for the colored frequencies "problem" and people absolutely HATED it so much it was discontinued. SM58s are awesome affordable mics especially for live vocals... SM57 are still used for eveyone that record instruments and even vocals... Check out the SM57 with the A81WS windscreen its just amazing I even prefer it over the SM7B tbh...
I didn’t say they were bad mics though-
Maybe watch the video again!
@@adamsteelproducer its in your title 🤦♀️
No it isn’t… and even so the title is just a starting point to enter into a discussion. If you’ve not actually watched the whole video to see the taking points then I can’t really help
@@adamsteelproducer "The SM58 Sucks!"
Omg! I have heard critics of the Shure SM58 and SM58A etc microphones, but your criticism just seems to come from a ridiculous point of view. In the forty-odd years of professional heavy rock and metal performance I have never had any problems- feedback, muddiness or any other kind of sonic problem. Mainly because I have had the privilege of working with some fantastic sound engineers, especially in live work. Furthermore, I have tried every handheld microphone there is and nothing, but nothing is as reliable, functionary or resilient as the SM58. One just has to cough too hard on a Sennheiser, fart too loud within a foot of Audix or just hit a note higher than C5 and all those gloriously expensive and trendy mics just die. From a studio recording/engineering stand point - you know far more than I could dream of (I'm learning about Reaper from your videos) but as a Live Technician/Engineer, I think your bias against Shure is seriously erroneous. You can't drive a van over an Audio Technics mic and still have it work. Shure used to advertise the SM58 with just that! Lastly, and for anyone who has any pedigree playing/singing live: we don't use SM58s because they are some new tech that can and probably will go wrong in the middle of a high-profile gig, we use them because they SELDOM if ever go wrong, and because if they do - they can be easily replaced! It's quite ironic listening to you rant about old tech like the SM58 because, given how you seem to pay constant homage to Glen Fricker's views and longings for the sound of "real metal and rock music" again. Newsflash. Every metal band worth its salt used and still use the Shure SM58: whether the original, the Beta or the wireless or headset versions and if they were good enough for Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden, Geoff Tate of Queensryche, Ronnie James Dio of Dio, Black Sabbath and Rainbow and Rob Halford of Judas Priest (not to mention Plant of Led Zep, Anderson of Yes, Gillan of Deep Purple.. etc etc etc..) No rant here,no insults- just debate.
! YES!!!!! I never liked them, they work, they are rugged, but... they always have just been ehhh..
I reckon part of the problem is sound engineers who are losing their hearing after too much exposure to excessively high volumes. From what I've heard it's the high frequencies that go first, hence a muddy sounding mic probably sounds fine to them.
I think that might be part of it!
Get your point.. but its is till funny, guitar wise yhat we do everything to clone/copy/emulate those old amps from the 60's and so on...
As a Sound Engineer You must be deaf if you think the Plastic, or Palmer Speakers are better! The New ones for the Most part are more cheaply made.This is just not me I've had this discussion with Numerous other Sound Reinforcement Engineers.You may be a tech a do small gigs but not Recording like Bob Seiger, or The Eagles.
Took 2:26 to get straight to the point.
I ordered a Shure 58mic and the dude said try this instead.. it was an Audix.
Brilliant! :-)
Audix vocal mics are decent :)
I love your points on mics, but ewww... never emulate cab distortion on a guitar...
The Two Notes CAB M+ is actually a fantastic bit of kit. The dynamic IRs are outstanding. Using something like that in a live setting makes sense as it's predictable and easier to manage.
SM58 is about durability and consistency in performance. this video misses that imo. i think its over priced, but it does not suck at all.
No such thing as a perfect mic, too many different sound patterns for that to be true.
maybe a shill? because ive been wanting to try the v7 for a while..
There are plenty of mics that are just as durable.
And you can’t be a shill if you’re not getting paid
@@adamsteelproducer i meant it as a good thing my bad, i used your affiliate link.
throw an sm58 off a building, comeback to me if it doesn't work.
@@jamesanderson-rp1tt you can do that with an e935
This video coming from a guy who is rocking a Allen and Heath GL series in his studio.
The GL is long since gone, and wasn’t in use at the time of filming…. And also is completely unrelated to the point?
@@adamsteelproducer its in the back of your video in you studio. So if you are saying the 58 is obsolete then you just proved my point
I didn’t say the 58 was obsolete, if that’s what you took from the video then I can’t help further since there’s a lot more nuance
@@adamsteelproducer lol. sure. nothing like trashing an item then backtracking. sorry you got called out
If you dont like the mic, its ok. Just used the mic that u prefer.
In bzness, good product no need to change. Coca Cola is always black in colour, becos that is what the customer used to, no need to change to blue or green.
Best all-around microphone for a truly skilled vocalist. Not a screamer or a pitchie rock singer
se v7x is pretty nice to
My main touring vocal mic for a long time!
I'm not a fan of the silver mesh, i think black looks better
I totally agree!! not trying other mics then the 58 is simply wrong especially for vocals imo, the sm58 is not bad in general but it will not fit all amps and voices. So it is silly naming it a "go-to-mic". Im my opinion there is no mic like that, trying what fits you is the way to go in my opinion. For me these are mics i totally love: Blue Hummingbird (on toms, snare, overheads, scoustic guitar, guitar and bass amps), Neumann tlm 193 (no hyped highend but also not too dull, great on voice and amps) The sontronics corona ( maaan on live vocals these are amazing!) The earthworks sr25 (a cardioid mic that is as linear as a measurement mic) OKAY and here comes the part that kind of contradicts it self but makes sense these 3 mics are special Earthworks sr 30, sr 40 and sv33. In a way i think these are the best mics on the market they are as linear as measurement mics but have a cardioid polar pattern so in theory you can use them on all sources the rest is just a eq thing. This will fit not all tastes but it is a incredible tools to have to have a neutral starting point
So about the Earthworks mics. All Mics have a different frequency response so they could be the right thing for the job or not... starting with a linear or close to linear mic could be a good starting point