One thing worth mentioning. Northern Telecom was very early at adopting converting much of their maintenance and translations documentation to CD-ROM in the mid-1990s. There is likely a retiree from Northern Telecom or an RBOC who has old "Helmsman" CDs laying around which might provide you all of the engineering, installation and translations manuals needed to support these switches.
Going to need an older PC to run Helmsman. I'm currently working on a Switch-wide static problem, with our DMS-10. Support is practically nonexistent, albeit Nokia's support from India. Back in the late 1990's I was an Equipment Installer for Nortel.... mostly DMS-100 MAC work, within the SBC Account. Now, I'm wishing I would've done more with the DMS-10's! :p
@@oliverw.douglas285 For the older PC to run Helmsman, is that for hardware compatibility? or software? Would a Virtual Machine allow the install of the software?
@@saunderscvids I believe Helmsman has issues running on newer OS's, specifically 64-Bit OS's. If the source docs are PDF's, they could be viewed independently, but the Helmsman viewer & table of contents makes it easier to view & find specific documents. Never tried running it in a vm.
@@DeviantOllam sounds cool! Your videos are always top notch and I have enjoyed watching them over the years. Someday I hope to meet you. I watched most of your defcon talks and hope to go to the con in person someday.
I worked for Northern Telecom starting in 1985 at DMS10 at the Plaza in RTP, NC. I was a systems test tech until 88 or so then i began installing them into sea land containers for emergency response units like Elma Alabama and third world coumtries like Micronesia, Guang Dong China and such. I had extensive installation, software configuration and system level testing capabilities. Reach out if you have any questioms or needs regardimg the DMS10 functiom and capabilities. May want to add the Accessnode and Transportnodes, OC12/48 pieces to your museum in the near future. I deployed those as well. Great gear and great memories.
Howdy Colin .. I worked for Nortel for 7 years installing the DMS-10 across many states and 4 years in TAS/ETAS in Dallas. I cut my teeth on the 200 Generic and worked on the first 400 Generic deployed in the Nation at Buffalo Texas back in the 80's. Those were amazing days with great co-workers. FYI there are still DMS-10's running in Alaska. I will have to visit someday !!
200 generic... You are old. Funny but that's the only one I worked on on my limited experience on the 10. I worked significantly on 100s in Canada and the US. Spent time in Nortels FSE group in Calgary
Wow, that brings back memories. I worked at BNR as a co-op student in 1987 and I wrote software that ran on the DMS-100. Nortel invented its own language called PROTEL for running on the switches, and I'm pretty sure they had a custom CPU too. Fun times!
Hey everyone! Proper announcement coming later tonight, but if you're commenting here to express your interest in buying T-shirts online, we've just listed them on Cottonbureau! Thanks for all your love and support. cottonbureau.com/people/connections-museum
Oh, also: We're definitely having conversations amongst ourselves about protecting against ESD on the DMS! From your comments, it seems like we should be a lot more concerned about it with this switch than we're used to with the #3 ESS, but it'll still be in a high-traffic environment, so we'll be investigating how best to deal with this. Thanks!
Technician from New Zealand here.... i think it is awesome that you guys are maintaining all of this stuff in your museum... we're just in the process of retiring the PSTN as you know it in NZ and ripping out all of the 1980's and 1990's NEC NEAX switches which are similar in some ways to the DMS10. I'll certainly visit your museum if I'm ever up in your part of the world.
I remember circuit packs in 5ESS and DMS-10 / DMS-100 switches being VERY sensitive to static. You probably should be wearing a ground strap when touching those boards, even with the switch powered off.
Those yellow plugs labeled “static ground” should definitely be used with wrist straps with proper ESD termination. Even cheap disposable ones could prevent your soon-to-be museum piece less likely destroyed by ESD.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. While he was telling us about how vitally important it was to not damage this irreplaceable piece of tech I was watching him put his fingers all over the PCB without any kind of ESD protection and inside my head I was going "please don't let them find out the hard way about ESD".
It's cool to see this, considering at my job we monitor 50+ DMS10 switches that are still active, among other equipment such as DMS1U's and DMS100's and 200's. I actually took a training on how to assemble one but it was a while back so I wouldn't know much myself on how to do it though. We had a decommissioned one we were suppose to assemble as a team to setup a lab but it ended up being cannibalized for parts when one of our active ones crapped out. Parts are getting harder to come by! Stuff in those days was built to last. Now days everything has such a short life span, it's kind of sad.
It was great to talk with y'all in person and see the DMS-10. I was working on a Verizon job recently and heard directly from one of the lead techs that there is a DMS-10 still in operation somewhere in Washington. I can't recall where exactly he said but it sure is an amazing piece of technology. Excited to see y'all again soon!
Wow, bring back memories! My friend was L4 tech support engineer for these machines (and the Meridian line) while i was for DPN-100 (+ Cisco / Cabletron / HPE / Etc)! They both share almost the same hardware / principles. They are almost indestructible!
I would wear that DMS-10 shirt just for the sheer thrill of having someone ask me and then having an excuse to talk about this weird niche interest in which I found myself
You can make internal calls without hooking up the T1s "trunks". I used to maintain the DMS100/Softswitches. The switch is a lot of knowledge to get it wired, setup, call features programmed and etc. We have whole teams to do that. Hope you guys do well. LCM 00.0.0.0 blue orange green brown slate... MAPCI etc. Good luck :)
My dad retired from Nortel, and I also worked as a tester for the DMS 100. We have a LOT of books, software for the DMS even display phones. Get in contact if you want it. They passed away and it's all got to go.
The real ongoing problem is the circuit packs are old and failing. Since Nortel no longer exists, neither do new packs. Telco’s are hanging onto their circuit packs as valuable spares, until DMS100 & 500 switches finally fail permanently.
Thanks for getting a board out and showing us... prior to that point, I was jumping up and down saying "oh, oh, oh... pull a board... pull a board!" :)
Thanks for letting me hang out with you this morning checking out the DMS 10 racks, that was very enjoyable. The comparisons you made with the ESS3 and the DMS were interesting. The ESS3, which came out the same year, was still using reed relays to switch audio, while the DMS was digitising it straight off. -Joe
This is great. I can't wait to see it cold start! In fact, if you had an event at the museum to celebrate I'd happily attend. It's also great to see such knowledge in the comment section. It looks like there are plenty of resources to reach out to.
Thats a good idea. It would be fun to have a bunch of people around for the first startup, but these kinds of things usually happen organically in stages. I'm not sure when the first real boot-up will be, or if it will even work! Either way, we will definitely film it :)
oh my goodness, i live near porland, OR and would LOVE to make a trip sometime to spend. DAYS wandering the museum. So many thank yous for your volunteer work!
Cool! I was in a switchroom and noticed a DMS100. While I know telecom very well, I didn't realize it was the beginning of hundreds of PRI circuits! I usually mess with the NIU going to the PBX. The wall of cards was emanating major heat!! Cool museum and topics! Thanks!
It is good to see the old Quantum drive is readable. My experience with the Atlas series was not bad. The Fireball series had a lot of longevity issues for me. Watching this video brought back a lot of memories. Thanks for sharing.
What a surprising episode! New people, new acquisitions. The DMS-10 looks gorgeous, very well engineered and built, spare no expense. These die-cast frames with boards kinda remind me of the Apollo Guidance Computer. Fire that beauty up! :)
Ah yes, the ultra-secure lacroix cardboard rackmount. I usually go for the lower-end ultra-secure upturned empty amazon shipping box rackmount; good to see the connections museum springing for the finest in data preservation accessories :)
Keep up the good work! I spent a 30 year career at Nortel/BNR designing many parts of the DMS-10. You guys remind me of a much younger me working on the DMS-10.
I would absolutely love to get a #3ess and DMS10 shirt. I'm not able to travel to Seattle soon so I would buy both of those shirts instantly if you started selling them.
At last some love for digital systems! I am really looking forward to this series. I spent years installing the DMS's enterprise cousin the Meridian - when installing, after placing and bolting it together the number one job was ALWAYS grounding, ALWAYS 🙂
I love you Claire, Colin, Sarah, everyone involved! Keep pushing this awesome footage out! I've wanted to visit this awesome telecom museum for so long; but keep waiting for finances to cooperate with me. In the meantime, please keep doing what you are doing. Everything from ring generators to Strowger, to crossbar, to ESS, and now this? I need to visit. And you managed to make most of everything interoperate? It is a testament to those who designed it all with compatibility in mind, and to you all taking that huge amount of tech and actually gluing it back together (rewiring crossbars? WTF?). As an engineer, this is breathtaking to me. Bravo! I know the DMS isn't production yet. But my uncle was in telco for his whole career from analog to digital. And I'd love to complete a call with him on site some day through that ridiculous stack. Hope to see you in Seattle sometime. Keep on rocking!
Looks like a lot of fun. Although DMS-10 and DMS-100 Family systems are different beasts, they do share some level of commonality. Peripherals such as the Line Concentrators and Line Group Controllers are pretty much the same across either platform. Internal communication should be at a DS-30A bit level for copper interconnects. (2.56 Mbits/s). Multiple DS-30 connect to the peripherals to satisfy the expected usage. From your video, I didn't see any sign of DS-512 optical connections. When scanning the disk drives, it looks like the DMS-10 software might have been sourced in PROTEL(?) (A C, C+, C++ like language) PROTEL being the high level language developed at BNR (Bell Northern Research). PROTEL stands for Procedure Oriented Type Enforcing Language. Block structured and type enforcing. The software was not my big thing, combined with my lack of knowledge on DMS-10 -- I could be very wrong. On that disk should also be the software for the peripherals in addition to the SOS (Support Operating System). Please use an anti-static strap when pulling or replacing cards. Mentioned many times here, but worth repeating. Grounding was always a big deal in digital machines. Random current flowing where it shouldn't will cause all sorts of odd behavior from "hissing" on the analog side of line cards, to "0" and "1" confusion on the logic signals. Not to mention potential damage from nearby lightning strikes. One of the big differences between DMS-10 and DMS-100 was ease of use. DMS-10 being very command line oriented and DMS-100 was menu driven. The data table structures are complex in either scenario. I worked for Bell Canada at the start of the digital revolution and eventually wound up working for Nortel as a DMS customer support drone and new product introduction. The best of times, the worst of times. Miss it greatly. On occasion. One of these days, I'd love to see your museum.
Hope you all can find more accessories for the DMS-10. Since you have 600 series generic, maybe you can find the last major piece of tech for DMS-10 - the PGI chassis to add VoIP capability. Add other things like 1-Meg Modem (early DSL), etc. etc. to truly capture all of the tech in addition to the TDM pieces. Have fun with it.
Thanks! Yeah a PGI would be super cool. For now, we got a Genband G2 that will serve as a dedicated VoIP gateway. We are always on the lookout for goodies though.
We have an old box in a comms rack in the basement in my office. (It might be Nokia) but there is a rack of cards that look very similar to the front panel there. I'm convinced it is the termination of an old ISDN circuit form 20 years ago, but as no one still here knows what it does we aren't allowed to turn it off. it just sits there taking up half of a 42u rack and god knows how much power :D
Thanks for the tip. This was the first thing we did, and was actually what Matt was doing at that computer while he was looking thru the disk contents. We just didn't make that very clear in the video. The images are backed up in multiple safe locations.
I haven’t tried them, but I see that SCSI-2 to SD card converters are readily available on Amazon. You could probably even modify the board to fit inside the original Atlas 5 enclosure to preserve the appearance. I don’t know about Chorus OS, but it if mainly only writes to logs once configured, wearing out the flash on an SD card might not be an issue. Even the slowest SD card is probably way faster than an old Atlas 5.
Always loved the burnt orange tops for the DMS-10. Just oozed 70's design. Not so crazy about the green-topped DMS-100's but I understand they had to come up with a more "80's" colour scheme!
x86/CISC is a fairly recent phenomenon in telecom, after DMS you'll find a lot of gear runs on other RISC architectures, Sun's being very popular! Supporting systems too, honestly. 2000s were a lot of SPARC and Solaris
Great work by you all. Would love to visit and get a tour of the museum sometime when I am in the area. Wonder where all the decommissioned switches end up. Thanks for keeping some of them around and working!
not seen one of them since doing my apprenticeship at Nortel in the mid 1990's........cabling the big ones took forever! The fact the cpu board you show is badged with the Nortel Networks branding shows it would be after about 1998. Was a good company to work for, but never did much on dms since my apprenticeship, went of to access mux and backbone transmission with the Optara range of SHD mux and DWDM
We were told by the folks who donated that this was the last DMS-10 to roll of the assembly line, and we date it to somewhere around 1999-2000. We can't prove the claim that it was the "last" one, but it makes an interesting anecdote!
As someone that works in small form-factor embedded communications/computing systems, it's really fun to look at the parallels (and differences) between that and the large-scale telecom equipment that obviously inspired it. Similar architectures and components, but far fewer users/channels so reduced sizes and quantities of boards, backplanes are still backplanes, but frames/shelves are scaled down to chassis, etc.
Awesome. I'm so glad you guys are keeping this knowledge alive, because after the great collapse we're going to have to use all this stuff all over again.
Hopefully in your documentation for the DMS-10 you have a copy of SD0T01-11. This is system schematic for the 500/600 DMS-10. This document will help greatly with regards to understanding the power/grounding and system cabling (frame to frame) of the DMS-10.
Thanks for the pointer, it definitely helps to know specifics about what we should be looking for. We're right now trying to track down a set of drawings but so far no luck. All the docs we got via Adtran were manuals and NTPs, evidently the drawings got separated from the switch at some point.
I'd absolutely get a shirt, but unfortunately I won't be able to go to Seattle anytime soon. +1 for shirts on an e-commerce platform! I don't care if they're more expensive, I just want to support y'all.
I remember the day that our local exchange switched from mechanical to that NC switch. Then they interface later on to ADSL on top of that switch. I do not know what our LEO is running today, I have a fiber connection and dead POTS line comming into the house… no noisy lines and no problems with the dedicated fiber line… good bye 👋 to buried wet cables. And I am only 2 km or 1.5 miles from my LEO. Only time my internet was out is when the vault at 10th and State in Erie blew up and caught fire!!! 😅😅😅😅 Have fun on the new switch. Maybe there is a few retired guys in the old Chautauqua and Erie Telephone system that could help with any answers. 73’s DE N2JYG
I worked on Nortel PBX's for several decades. It was good solid equipment and the software was pretty good but oftentimes what you wanted to do was not exactly what the software did. I became very proficient at NARS/BARS programming and eventually had 4 Opt 81C's networked together in two different cities. I was fortunate that my company sent me to numerous Nortel training schools. I really enjoyed that job and only left after we were outsourced to a company that basically destroyed the IT department.
I would love to buy some t-shirts. Sadly, I live in Alabama and doubt I'll ever have a chance to visit Seattle (but if I ever do, y'all are at the top of the agenda
I would posit that the Xilinx FPGA implements a digital cross point or digital switching function. It should connect the line cards to other line cards and connect the line cards to the trunk cards. It could implement a digital conferencing function. DTMF detection and tone generation may be done in a TI DSP. Take care of the modules in the shelves when initially powering the racks.
My suggestion would be getting it working with the old drives first. There's a chance switching to a different type of drive could cause weird problems and and you don't want to be heading down the wrong metaphorical rabbit hole.
Very informative reminds me of the good old days working on ROLM CBX's, where is your anti static grounding strap when you are handling the circuit boards ?
Hello to the telecommunications museum , I’m a fan of your Channel and I would like to be able to buy all the tshirts that the museum offers through an online plateform since I live in New Zealand
Having worked in a central office equipment environment for over 25 years on everything from a lowly SLC-96 to a 32 Slot Ciena 6500 Photonic bay system, @ 6:05 Removing, or installing plug in equipment cards without a ESD wrist strap connected to a rack ground point - Big no-no!
when my district got the dms they selcted 4 techs to learn it and agree to stay for 3 years-all good. however when the 3 years were up 2 techs retired and the other two transfered. i got sent to the dms 1 day to change a circuit board-i searched for the spares-nothing but line cards-called teh support-they tell me to turn around in front of the switch and notice another set of frames-yep-turns out all the spares were live in the second frame!-did you get a live spare frame?
Yeah that's what Matt was doing in the second half of the video. We've got images of both drives stored offsite :) We will look into a solid state solution once the machine is booted.
One thing worth mentioning. Northern Telecom was very early at adopting converting much of their maintenance and translations documentation to CD-ROM in the mid-1990s. There is likely a retiree from Northern Telecom or an RBOC who has old "Helmsman" CDs laying around which might provide you all of the engineering, installation and translations manuals needed to support these switches.
Correct. I was the product manager for Helmsman for many years.
Going to need an older PC to run Helmsman.
I'm currently working on a Switch-wide static problem, with our DMS-10. Support is practically nonexistent, albeit Nokia's support from India.
Back in the late 1990's I was an Equipment Installer for Nortel.... mostly DMS-100 MAC work, within the SBC Account. Now, I'm wishing I would've done more with the DMS-10's! :p
@ctillnc Neat. We got a helmsman CD with the switch, but we would love to hear more about that part of the history. Feel free to get in touch with us.
@@oliverw.douglas285 For the older PC to run Helmsman, is that for hardware compatibility? or software? Would a Virtual Machine allow the install of the software?
@@saunderscvids I believe Helmsman has issues running on newer OS's, specifically 64-Bit OS's. If the source docs are PDF's, they could be viewed independently, but the Helmsman viewer & table of contents makes it easier to view & find specific documents.
Never tried running it in a vm.
Everything about this video was, as always, a delight. ☺️👍
Great to see you here!
@@EvanVanderStoep oh absolutely! You *might* even see more details in future about NorTel hardware and a building I'm in often ☺️👍
@@DeviantOllam sounds cool! Your videos are always top notch and I have enjoyed watching them over the years. Someday I hope to meet you. I watched most of your defcon talks and hope to go to the con in person someday.
@DeviantOllam do you want to go to the connections museum soon?
@@DJSubAir yeah I always like being there. I'm out of town for a while, tho
I worked for Northern Telecom starting in 1985 at DMS10 at the Plaza in RTP, NC. I was a systems test tech until 88 or so then i began installing them into sea land containers for emergency response units like Elma Alabama and third world coumtries like Micronesia, Guang Dong China and such. I had extensive installation, software configuration and system level testing capabilities. Reach out if you have any questioms or needs regardimg the DMS10 functiom and capabilities. May want to add the Accessnode and Transportnodes, OC12/48 pieces to your museum in the near future. I deployed those as well. Great gear and great memories.
Howdy Colin .. I worked for Nortel for 7 years installing the DMS-10 across many states and 4 years in TAS/ETAS in Dallas. I cut my teeth on the 200 Generic and worked on the first 400 Generic deployed in the Nation at Buffalo Texas back in the 80's. Those were amazing days with great co-workers. FYI there are still DMS-10's running in Alaska. I will have to visit someday !!
200 generic... You are old. Funny but that's the only one I worked on on my limited experience on the 10. I worked significantly on 100s in Canada and the US. Spent time in Nortels FSE group in Calgary
Retired AT&T Digital tech 40yrs.I Enjoy your UA-cam channel
Oh also, great designs and color schemes for the new T-shirts!
Wow, that brings back memories. I worked at BNR as a co-op student in 1987 and I wrote software that ran on the DMS-100. Nortel invented its own language called PROTEL for running on the switches, and I'm pretty sure they had a custom CPU too. Fun times!
The CPU for the 500 series is a PowerPC, if I remember correctly.
Hey everyone! Proper announcement coming later tonight, but if you're commenting here to express your interest in buying T-shirts online, we've just listed them on Cottonbureau! Thanks for all your love and support.
cottonbureau.com/people/connections-museum
Oh, also: We're definitely having conversations amongst ourselves about protecting against ESD on the DMS! From your comments, it seems like we should be a lot more concerned about it with this switch than we're used to with the #3 ESS, but it'll still be in a high-traffic environment, so we'll be investigating how best to deal with this. Thanks!
Technician from New Zealand here.... i think it is awesome that you guys are maintaining all of this stuff in your museum... we're just in the process of retiring the PSTN as you know it in NZ and ripping out all of the 1980's and 1990's NEC NEAX switches which are similar in some ways to the DMS10. I'll certainly visit your museum if I'm ever up in your part of the world.
I remember circuit packs in 5ESS and DMS-10 / DMS-100 switches being VERY sensitive to static. You probably should be wearing a ground strap when touching those boards, even with the switch powered off.
Most all of the IC's in that era were VERY sensitive to static. Yes they should be using static protection at all costs.
Those yellow plugs labeled “static ground” should definitely be used with wrist straps with proper ESD termination. Even cheap disposable ones could prevent your soon-to-be museum piece less likely destroyed by ESD.
Or at a minimum, hold the circuit packs by the plastic lock tabs, if you don't have a ground strap.
Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. While he was telling us about how vitally important it was to not damage this irreplaceable piece of tech I was watching him put his fingers all over the PCB without any kind of ESD protection and inside my head I was going "please don't let them find out the hard way about ESD".
Noticing no ESD strap was first thing I did.
It's cool to see this, considering at my job we monitor 50+ DMS10 switches that are still active, among other equipment such as DMS1U's and DMS100's and 200's. I actually took a training on how to assemble one but it was a while back so I wouldn't know much myself on how to do it though. We had a decommissioned one we were suppose to assemble as a team to setup a lab but it ended up being cannibalized for parts when one of our active ones crapped out. Parts are getting harder to come by! Stuff in those days was built to last. Now days everything has such a short life span, it's kind of sad.
DMS, easily the best exchange EVER!
It was great to talk with y'all in person and see the DMS-10. I was working on a Verizon job recently and heard directly from one of the lead techs that there is a DMS-10 still in operation somewhere in Washington. I can't recall where exactly he said but it sure is an amazing piece of technology. Excited to see y'all again soon!
I'm a private electric contractor that works with Verizon in New York City, and there are plenty of DMS 500 switches still in operation.
We have an active DMS-10 in our area. Works fine afaik.
Good to see large Trimline is supervising the install
It's going to be great to see this DMS-10 come together, I'd love to be able to order the 3ESS shirt, too far away to visit.
Wow, bring back memories! My friend was L4 tech support engineer for these machines (and the Meridian line) while i was for DPN-100 (+ Cisco / Cabletron / HPE / Etc)! They both share almost the same hardware / principles. They are almost indestructible!
I would wear that DMS-10 shirt just for the sheer thrill of having someone ask me and then having an excuse to talk about this weird niche interest in which I found myself
You can make internal calls without hooking up the T1s "trunks". I used to maintain the DMS100/Softswitches. The switch is a lot of knowledge to get it wired, setup, call features programmed and etc. We have whole teams to do that. Hope you guys do well. LCM 00.0.0.0 blue orange green brown slate... MAPCI etc. Good luck :)
Love your giant "TRIMLINE"!
My dad retired from Nortel, and I also worked as a tester for the DMS 100. We have a LOT of books, software for the DMS even display phones. Get in contact if you want it. They passed away and it's all got to go.
@DJPhantomRage can you drop us a line at info@connectionsmuseum.org
The real ongoing problem is the circuit packs are old and failing. Since Nortel no longer exists, neither do new packs. Telco’s are hanging onto their circuit packs as valuable spares, until DMS100 & 500 switches finally fail permanently.
Thanks for getting a board out and showing us... prior to that point, I was jumping up and down saying "oh, oh, oh... pull a board... pull a board!" :)
Thanks for letting me hang out with you this morning checking out the DMS 10 racks, that was very enjoyable. The comparisons you made with the ESS3 and the DMS were interesting. The ESS3, which came out the same year, was still using reed relays to switch audio, while the DMS was digitising it straight off. -Joe
Thanks! Glad you made it out :)
This is great. I can't wait to see it cold start! In fact, if you had an event at the museum to celebrate I'd happily attend.
It's also great to see such knowledge in the comment section. It looks like there are plenty of resources to reach out to.
Thats a good idea. It would be fun to have a bunch of people around for the first startup, but these kinds of things usually happen organically in stages. I'm not sure when the first real boot-up will be, or if it will even work! Either way, we will definitely film it :)
oh my goodness, i live near porland, OR and would LOVE to make a trip sometime to spend. DAYS wandering the museum. So many thank yous for your volunteer work!
Cool! I was in a switchroom and noticed a DMS100. While I know telecom very well, I didn't realize it was the beginning of hundreds of PRI circuits! I usually mess with the NIU going to the PBX. The wall of cards was emanating major heat!! Cool museum and topics! Thanks!
Would definitely buy those shirts if they were available online!
Didn't expect to find you here. Love your channel! Also, I would love the ESS shirt
ha, thank you!@@avagromus
Didn’t expect to see you hear either
Super cool! Excited to see this evolve back to a working switch!
It is good to see the old Quantum drive is readable. My experience with the Atlas series was not bad. The Fireball series had a lot of longevity issues for me. Watching this video brought back a lot of memories. Thanks for sharing.
What a surprising episode! New people, new acquisitions. The DMS-10 looks gorgeous, very well engineered and built, spare no expense. These die-cast frames with boards kinda remind me of the Apollo Guidance Computer. Fire that beauty up! :)
Frames are stamped steel, not die-cast
Ah yes, the ultra-secure lacroix cardboard rackmount. I usually go for the lower-end ultra-secure upturned empty amazon shipping box rackmount; good to see the connections museum springing for the finest in data preservation accessories :)
Keep up the good work! I spent a 30 year career at Nortel/BNR designing many parts of the DMS-10. You guys remind me of a much younger me working on the DMS-10.
Next to all very cool stuff of the switch, I'd like to shout out the beautiful office chair at 8:50 😍
The matching chair is Sarah's favorite part. It was already in the museum, but it fit so well, we just had to put it there with the switch.
@@ConnectionsMuseum a response on my comment, I'm honored! And lovely story ♥️
Would love to buy the t-shirts online!
Oh man that 3ESS shirt would be killer, would love a chance to buy one online :p
Woah, what an awesome museum. I know a few vintage computer Museums but one with networking etc. really brings me shiny eyes.
those new shirts look fantastic, i'd love to pick one up online!
I would absolutely love to get a #3ess and DMS10 shirt. I'm not able to travel to Seattle soon so I would buy both of those shirts instantly if you started selling them.
At last some love for digital systems! I am really looking forward to this series.
I spent years installing the DMS's enterprise cousin the Meridian - when installing, after placing and bolting it together the number one job was ALWAYS grounding, ALWAYS 🙂
Would absolutely DIE to have those t-shirts! If at all possible- they would be awesome if you could sell them online!
I love you Claire, Colin, Sarah, everyone involved! Keep pushing this awesome footage out! I've wanted to visit this awesome telecom museum for so long; but keep waiting for finances to cooperate with me. In the meantime, please keep doing what you are doing.
Everything from ring generators to Strowger, to crossbar, to ESS, and now this? I need to visit. And you managed to make most of everything interoperate? It is a testament to those who designed it all with compatibility in mind, and to you all taking that huge amount of tech and actually gluing it back together (rewiring crossbars? WTF?). As an engineer, this is breathtaking to me. Bravo!
I know the DMS isn't production yet. But my uncle was in telco for his whole career from analog to digital. And I'd love to complete a call with him on site some day through that ridiculous stack. Hope to see you in Seattle sometime. Keep on rocking!
Looks like a lot of fun.
Although DMS-10 and DMS-100 Family systems are different beasts, they do share some level of commonality. Peripherals such as the Line Concentrators and Line Group Controllers are pretty much the same across either platform. Internal communication should be at a DS-30A bit level for copper interconnects. (2.56 Mbits/s). Multiple DS-30 connect to the peripherals to satisfy the expected usage. From your video, I didn't see any sign of DS-512 optical connections.
When scanning the disk drives, it looks like the DMS-10 software might have been sourced in PROTEL(?) (A C, C+, C++ like language) PROTEL being the high level language developed at BNR (Bell Northern Research). PROTEL stands for Procedure Oriented Type Enforcing Language. Block structured and type enforcing. The software was not my big thing, combined with my lack of knowledge on DMS-10 -- I could be very wrong. On that disk should also be the software for the peripherals in addition to the SOS (Support Operating System). Please use an anti-static strap when pulling or replacing cards. Mentioned many times here, but worth repeating.
Grounding was always a big deal in digital machines. Random current flowing where it shouldn't will cause all sorts of odd behavior from "hissing" on the analog side of line cards, to "0" and "1" confusion on the logic signals. Not to mention potential damage from nearby lightning strikes.
One of the big differences between DMS-10 and DMS-100 was ease of use. DMS-10 being very command line oriented and DMS-100 was menu driven. The data table structures are complex in either scenario.
I worked for Bell Canada at the start of the digital revolution and eventually wound up working for Nortel as a DMS customer support drone and new product introduction. The best of times, the worst of times. Miss it greatly. On occasion.
One of these days, I'd love to see your museum.
Hope you all can find more accessories for the DMS-10. Since you have 600 series generic, maybe you can find the last major piece of tech for DMS-10 - the PGI chassis to add VoIP capability. Add other things like 1-Meg Modem (early DSL), etc. etc. to truly capture all of the tech in addition to the TDM pieces. Have fun with it.
Thanks! Yeah a PGI would be super cool. For now, we got a Genband G2 that will serve as a dedicated VoIP gateway. We are always on the lookout for goodies though.
Fascinating it look like there is adventure at the Connections Museum. I am sure that team is up to the adventure.
Thank you for starting this process with a new system. It will be very interesting to watch this process from the start
I love that y'all volunteer to do this
Good work, I am glad I could contribute in some small way. I hope to make it up there for the first test calls of this switch!
We have an old box in a comms rack in the basement in my office. (It might be Nokia) but there is a rack of cards that look very similar to the front panel there.
I'm convinced it is the termination of an old ISDN circuit form 20 years ago, but as no one still here knows what it does we aren't allowed to turn it off. it just sits there taking up half of a 42u rack and god knows how much power :D
Take a pic and send it to the Museum staff. Or post it here. You'll get an idea of what it does!
Nice work on careful documentation and preservation. I might suggest cloning those IDE drives right away.
Thanks for the tip. This was the first thing we did, and was actually what Matt was doing at that computer while he was looking thru the disk contents. We just didn't make that very clear in the video. The images are backed up in multiple safe locations.
I haven’t tried them, but I see that SCSI-2 to SD card converters are readily available on Amazon. You could probably even modify the board to fit inside the original Atlas 5 enclosure to preserve the appearance. I don’t know about Chorus OS, but it if mainly only writes to logs once configured, wearing out the flash on an SD card might not be an issue. Even the slowest SD card is probably way faster than an old Atlas 5.
Brings back memories installing DMS-10s and DMS-100s all over the west back in the day.
Always loved the burnt orange tops for the DMS-10. Just oozed 70's design. Not so crazy about the green-topped DMS-100's but I understand they had to come up with a more "80's" colour scheme!
Strolling down the aisles of a larger DMS-100 you can pretend you're in a forest, what with the green 'canopy' coming up overhead lol
Spring and fall colors we called them.
That DMS-10 runs a PowerPC CPU? okay I just fell in love with the thing. :D
x86/CISC is a fairly recent phenomenon in telecom, after DMS you'll find a lot of gear runs on other RISC architectures, Sun's being very popular! Supporting systems too, honestly. 2000s were a lot of SPARC and Solaris
I'd absolutely buy a shirt if it was available online!
I helped install a DMS-10 in Hazard , Kentucky, back in the day.
I would make clones of those disks ASAP!
They have! :)
Great work by you all. Would love to visit and get a tour of the museum sometime when I am in the area. Wonder where all the decommissioned switches end up. Thanks for keeping some of them around and working!
not seen one of them since doing my apprenticeship at Nortel in the mid 1990's........cabling the big ones took forever! The fact the cpu board you show is badged with the Nortel Networks branding shows it would be after about 1998. Was a good company to work for, but never did much on dms since my apprenticeship, went of to access mux and backbone transmission with the Optara range of SHD mux and DWDM
We were told by the folks who donated that this was the last DMS-10 to roll of the assembly line, and we date it to somewhere around 1999-2000. We can't prove the claim that it was the "last" one, but it makes an interesting anecdote!
Optera Metro platform is still very much in use today!
That said FMT-150s are too but nobody likes to admit that
Hey, I was like 1000! It was very rewarding to see 999 turn into 1k.
Always looking forward to new videos!
I'll be there in December. Looking forward to getting a shirt!
As someone that works in small form-factor embedded communications/computing systems, it's really fun to look at the parallels (and differences) between that and the large-scale telecom equipment that obviously inspired it. Similar architectures and components, but far fewer users/channels so reduced sizes and quantities of boards, backplanes are still backplanes, but frames/shelves are scaled down to chassis, etc.
Awesome.
I'm so glad you guys are keeping this knowledge alive, because after the great collapse we're going to have to use all this stuff all over again.
Wow,speaking about flashbacks.
Good luck with the new learning. It is very exciting though 😉.
Fantastic! I would love to buy a Tshirt or two.
Hopefully in your documentation for the DMS-10 you have a copy of SD0T01-11. This is system schematic for the 500/600 DMS-10. This document will help greatly with regards to understanding the power/grounding and system cabling (frame to frame) of the DMS-10.
Thanks for the pointer, it definitely helps to know specifics about what we should be looking for. We're right now trying to track down a set of drawings but so far no luck. All the docs we got via Adtran were manuals and NTPs, evidently the drawings got separated from the switch at some point.
Look for old Western Electric "ED" drawings. Those were the drawings we built the systems with back in the day.
Ow I love this! Thanks for sharing.
I'd absolutely get a shirt, but unfortunately I won't be able to go to Seattle anytime soon. +1 for shirts on an e-commerce platform! I don't care if they're more expensive, I just want to support y'all.
I remember the day that our local exchange switched from mechanical to that NC switch. Then they interface later on to ADSL on top of that switch. I do not know what our LEO is running today, I have a fiber connection and dead POTS line comming into the house… no noisy lines and no problems with the dedicated fiber line… good bye 👋 to buried wet cables. And I am only 2 km or 1.5 miles from my LEO. Only time my internet was out is when the vault at 10th and State in Erie blew up and caught fire!!! 😅😅😅😅
Have fun on the new switch. Maybe there is a few retired guys in the old Chautauqua and Erie Telephone system that could help with any answers.
73’s
DE N2JYG
This brings back memories / nightmares I worked on dms-100's and XA core (C20) machines for over a decade.
Would absolutely buy shirts! I'd love to come visit but the least I can do is snag a couple tees. 😁
I worked on Nortel PBX's for several decades. It was good solid equipment and the software was pretty good but oftentimes what you wanted to do was not exactly what the software did. I became very proficient at NARS/BARS programming and eventually had 4 Opt 81C's networked together in two different cities. I was fortunate that my company sent me to numerous Nortel training schools. I really enjoyed that job and only left after we were outsourced to a company that basically destroyed the IT department.
I’ll vote for making the tee shirts available in a UA-cam store. That seems like a great way to help support the museum.
Greatness. I worked and installed several for Alltel in Michigan
Please please please use basic ESD mitigation when handing those cards! FPGA's are particularly susceptible to ESD damage!
I would love to buy some t-shirts. Sadly, I live in Alabama and doubt I'll ever have a chance to visit Seattle (but if I ever do, y'all are at the top of the agenda
What an absolute joy :) Thanks for a great vid...
Where's your ground strap? the Junctor boards are super twitchy when it comes to ESD.
I’m interested in the dms shirt.
I would posit that the Xilinx FPGA implements a digital cross point or digital switching function. It should connect the line cards to other line cards and connect the line cards to the trunk cards. It could implement a digital conferencing function. DTMF detection and tone generation may be done in a TI DSP.
Take care of the modules in the shelves when initially powering the racks.
Still in use in parts of Canada lol
ESD strap when handling those cards! Please, please please!😱
You are working on same level as @CuriousMarc this is impressive!
After backing up the drive, do you plan on putting a Solid state solution into the DMS10?? Maybe a blue SCSI?
Eventually, yes. It’s just a little too far in the future for us to think about for now. :)
My suggestion would be getting it working with the old drives first. There's a chance switching to a different type of drive could cause weird problems and and you don't want to be heading down the wrong metaphorical rabbit hole.
Very informative reminds me of the good old days working on ROLM CBX's,
where is your anti static grounding strap when you are handling the circuit boards ?
Blue, Orange, Green, Brown, Slate....... Tip & Ring.....
Yeah... a dump of that disc would be quite fascinating... a hackers paradise.
... cor! I loved a bit of TCL years ago.
I would be very interested in those on some sort of e-commerce platform
SOS is the switch operating system
T-shirts would be cool!
Good Luck, Fortunately the deinstall of the switch had plenty of slack on interconnect cabling.
Hello to the telecommunications museum , I’m a fan of your Channel and I would like to be able to buy all the tshirts that the museum offers through an online plateform since I live in New Zealand
Yes please on possible e-commerce for the t-shirts! Hopefully shipping is cheap going all the way to Victoria, 😊
Having worked in a central office equipment environment for over 25 years on everything from a lowly SLC-96 to a 32 Slot Ciena 6500 Photonic bay system, @ 6:05 Removing, or installing plug in equipment cards without a ESD wrist strap connected to a rack ground point - Big no-no!
Like the first gentleman said, there are lots of retirees (and some still employed) who could help you get this installed and reduce your struggles 😊
so cool
when my district got the dms they selcted 4 techs to learn it and agree to stay for 3 years-all good. however when the 3 years were up 2 techs retired and the other two transfered. i got sent to the dms 1 day to change a circuit board-i searched for the spares-nothing but line cards-called teh support-they tell me to turn around in front of the switch and notice another set of frames-yep-turns out all the spares were live in the second frame!-did you get a live spare frame?
There are no spare. And All of the Packs are spare. There are no customers.
I assume you already dd those drives. I also assume SCSI-2/Ultra drives? The ZuluSCSI should work with a 68 pin adapter.
Yeah that's what Matt was doing in the second half of the video. We've got images of both drives stored offsite :)
We will look into a solid state solution once the machine is booted.
Nortel manuals are pretty good. Hopefully you have the full set with that DMS10.
Yes put the shirts in a storefront!
a nod to troy mclure :) kool ..maw bell's next network ..i dig the tech :) .
Throw the shirts out there for us to buy! :D