We’ve certainly got more coming on the Lanchester as our collections officer is rapidly becoming a specialist on them with some of the most in-depth research ever completed about them.
My father was armed with Thompson. He joined the Royal Signals in December 1939 and did a grand tour of West Africa, South Africa, East Africa, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, Netherlands and finished his extended travels in Hamburg in 1946. He said he was very fond of his Thompson. I was armed with a Stirling Mk4 in the 70/80s, I loved that weapon.
My grandfather talked of the Thompson as well as the Vickers. We have secured the Sterling for our collection but if you can help crowdfund the Thompson, please do so: vickersmg.blog/product/project-thompson/
Would have loved to see more of the sten MkV. It truly looks like someone saw a Sten mk3 and thought, "Common, we can equip our boys with something a little fancier"
I own a Sten MKV in Luxembourg, all original. In my opinion, a brilliant gun. The biggest advantage: easily adjustable sights, excellent sights and sight picture. In my opinion a sub gun without adjustable sights is anything but ideal
Great video, thanks for making this series. I’m glad to say that the developers of hell let loose have been hearing the criticisms and have announced that they’re gonna be reworking the British faction and there loadouts to be more accurate so if they follow through that should be good.
Thanks for your video. You both delivered on you promise. Very good history and information on the British SMG's of WW2. The live fire demonstration was a great surprise.
The STEN definitely caused injuries. My father in law Sgt Herbert Bell SOE MM WWII (deceased) was telling us about when he jumped off a camel the STEN shot him in the foot. His boot felt "squishy and warm" he said and was afraid to take his boot off at first if I remember correctly. Mainly being in the sandy desert in Egypt somewhere, not in action at this particular time and preparing to go over to rescue some US nurses that crashed behind enemy lines, he put off looking into it. Luckily it was a graze and he went on into Europe helped by partisans and a Captain got the nurses out.
That is one of the most interesting stories of a Sten accidental discharge I've heard. A camel! Definitely different than it happening when jumping off a a lorry!
Yes, there are unfortunately no shortage of accounts of the Sten causing injuries and sometimes even fatalities when knocked or dropped. Thing is - this was a problem that plagued pretty much all open-bolt blowback SMGs that didn't have proper bolt locks. The Germans had the same problem with their MP 38, the Spanish complained about it with the EMP and the Chinese with the UD M-42. The problem was addressed later in the war when a push-in bolt locking device was introduced with the Sten Mk. V and retrofitted to Mk. IIs and Mk. IIIs.
@@jameslawrence2446 you have to drop it on the butt end with the bolt forward so it has just enough inertia to feed a round from the magazine but not catch the sear, it can be done but its not easy. Unless the sear or bolt is worn there is no clearance for the bolt to slip off the sear with normal handling.
@@vickersmg Sounds good Rich. I knew the Lanchester was derived from the MP 28, but the MP 28 is pretty common, whereas the Lanchester is pretty scarce, well info on it is.
You’re welcome Jim. Glad you liked it. We’re planning more so make sure you subscribe and perhaps become a member here or on www.patreon.com/VickersMG to help finance them.
Hey guys loved the vid, im not sure what game you talk about, but I kept wondering where is the "Owen" the little gun that could, Loved by the Brits in Malaya, or was it Borneo, fire from the hip this is your baby. I hope your not a bit biased because we did you at cricket,, lol
We were only looking at SMGs used during the War. The British did indeed adopt the Owen for Malaya and Borneo but not until the 1950s. Great gun! Big Lithgow fans here so we can get over the cricket.
Great overview of the smgs used by the british; i hope to see the M1928 A1 with the drum magazine on the HLL someday, it's a 100% british weapon afaik.
Certainly used by the British in that configuration! We’ve just secured a drum mag so perhaps we need to go to the range again - we still need to finish the crowdfunding on the Thompson though so help out if you can vickersmg.blog/product/project-thompson/
It's funny the bayonet on the SMG carried on until the sterling, since in the Indo-Pakistan wars you see militia groups armed with some weird bayonet thing at the end of the barrel.
It only started to appear towards the end of the North Africa campaign, primarily with some elements of 1st Army but the Thompson dominated there and then the Mediterranean campaign throughout.
Gun of this type that are only SEMI AUTO variants are still called CARBINES. A Carbine is a Shorter than standard issue Rifle (In a Rifle caliber) or it's a Rifle chambered for a Pistol Caliber.
Did see use in North Africa, as was stated navy use. Royal Navy Commandos had these issued, normally the beach masters bodyguard. Sometimes Thompsons as well.
@@vickersmg not a bad rule, but certainly not what pictures or accounts show. M1a1s and M1928s were used, seemingly more in Italy and the far east. A good mix to be sure, some very cool photos of all 3 sub-machine carbines in use.
Other call them machine-pistols. And that what the Germans call the m18 and they were the ones that developed the machine-pistol. The Lanchester look like a clone between the Husqvarner/Tikkakoski M37/39 With a firing rate of 900 rounds/M in stacked `Coffin` magazines 58 rounds and the M18. Great video!!👍👍
There are unfounded rumours and myths that some of the early Patchett prototypes were sent with the South Staffordshire Regiment and others are sometimes mentioned as well but never with evidence. We will try to follow up with a ‘why not the Sterling’ video at some point.
We’d love to. We need to finish crowdfunding the Thompson before we can consider purchasing a Sten though so please help with that if you can. vickersmg.blog/product/project-thompson/
Lanchesters often ended up on the rear cabin of an FAA Fairey Fulmar to provide moral support to the TAG. So, hers my theory. British army have a competition prior to WWII to pick a machine carbine for general army use. They end up picking the two best ones, as it happens, the Suomi and the Berretta. They don’t want to buy the Barretta ‘cos Fascism so they order 25000 of the from the Finns (swapping them for hawker hurricanes) . However, uncle Joe visits Finland and the Fins need to keep their SMGs. Consequently, they end up equipping their infantry units with a lot of SMGs for no other reason than they have lots. This actually works very well. The Russians notice this and copy this development and have their units jammed with sub machine guns. Subsequently, the Germans also noticed this and copied it only they upgraded the weapon to be a bit like a rifle as well. Enter the assault rifle. So, basically, we invented the assault rifle!
Interesting! You ought to have a read of the small arms committee minutes we have on our patreon channel - they cover from 1900 to 1942 at the moment www.patreon.com/VickersMG
This video wasn’t about testing the accuracy of the guns, it was about feel and function and comparing agains the game. Accuracy will come another time.
Hello Vickers MG folks, I just noticed a submachine gun up for auction in NZ which purports to be a paratrooper version of the Lanchester. It has a folding fore grip, a rear pistol grip and also continues to mount the 1907 bayonet. I have never heard of such a thing before and cannot find any photographs of it elsewhere. Would you happen to know anything about this model? I would be happy to pass on the photo.
An interesting fact is that with the SMLE sword bayonet fixed the Lanchester is the same overall length as the SMLE without it. It would have been good for trench raiding if it had been invented in the First World War.
The Grease Gun was barely used in British Service, with only the 78th Division having a very limited issue towards the end of the War in Italy. It would be good to do a comparison but not as part of this video series.
A couple of decades ago I was digging a drain at the side of my cottage and unearthed some steel pipes with flanges on them. I immediately lobbed them into my 'useful scrap' bucket and thought no more about them. Later on, I used them as legs for a satellite dish support, bolted to the wall. They look for all the world like buttstocks from the Mk2 Sten. Just sayin.... who knows who put them there and what the story was.
Thanks for that. The British Army and Empire did start to get the M1A1 in Italy and very late in North West Europe for some units. I think it’s the 1944 manuals that starts to cover that gun as well. Quite possibly in the far east too but very much out of scope for the game.
You see them first with New Zealand troops if i remember rightly but the supply chains are so crossed over in Italy that they appear across British troops quite quickly. They even have M3 Grease guns on the 78th Div!
They are called 'SUB' machine guns. Because they shoot a 'SUB' Caliber (A pistol Caliber) at a time when the previous Machine guns were all chambered in Rifle ammunition.
In British service sub machine guns were called Machine Carbines because they fulfilled the ROLE that Carbines had held in the British Army. Its not about the weapon, its about the role. I somehow doubt that the British Army of the period really cared very much for what future civilians may think of their naming conventions. Militaries often do call things by names we would not use outside a military. There are generally reasons behind their choice of nomenclature, even if they are not obvious to you.... Also, to muddy the waters, in many militaries SMG's set for semi auto only are still called carbines. And yes, there are examples of semi auto only SMG's, mostly issued to non front line troops who need something a little heftier than a pistol but do not require the firepower of a full auto SMG.
The British first start calling the SMGs in the 1950s. This is about a video game set in the Second World War so applying later terminology would be incorrect.
We will give the Owen a mention when we do a short video on the post-war use of sub-machine guns and the introduction of the Sterling. It wasn’t used by the British in wartime though, which is very much the scope of the Hell Let Loose game.
Quite probably. It was still the service SMG at the time up to its replacement by the Sterling, which might have been as late as the 1960s for some Naval ships.
@@vickersmg From what an ex-RN Matelow was telling me, Lanchester carbines were still on warships on racks that were chained and padlocked. They were common until the late 1970s. He also told me that the RN had a diverse range of side arms in the emergency and the Borneo and Sarawak campaigns of the sixties. As an armourer he was tasked with getting modern weapons Sterlings and FN Browning Hi-Power pistols. He also alluded to a 'black market' with the supply of pump action combat shotguns which the RM and SBS were finding useful in the jungle. The source for these was the US Navy and using the currency of Johnnie Walker Black and Red label whiskey by the crate. He also came across some M1911 Colt automatic pistols that were chambered to .455
@@vickersmg He also said that the then Minister of Defence Denis Healey (remember this was the Wilson Labour government of 1964-70) came to visit the RN who were doing his governments bidding in Borneo and Sarawak. Healey seemed rather indifferent to their requirements regarding small arms. Which since Healey had served in the British Army in WW2 was rather a moot point.
@@masaukochitsamba7808Yes I am aware of that. You didn't use STENs though did you? The STEN was referred to as a machine carbine. The Sterling shared some features of the STEN in format but it had a number of material and functional differences including the stock, trigger group, the bolt and the magazine. The post war SMGs of other nations have a much greater resemblance to the STEN than the Sterling did. The Swedish K being notable in that respect.
@@zoiders Belgarion above stated that the type of weapons above were never called carbines, they were known as SMGs. You then stated that they never used stend in the 70s. Now my statement, in support of Mr. Belgiron, is that while they never used Stens in the 70s, the SMG in service was the sterling. What matters here is that as an answer to your question, Stens may not have been in service in the 70s however the sterling were and I assume that these were referred to as SMGs and not carbines then. Mr Belgiron had a problem with the presenters calling these type of weapons carbines because when he was in service they never referred to them as that. The sten and the sterling are in the same category of weapons and if Stens were referred to as carbines you would assume that the sterling would also be referred to as such because the sterling replaced the sten in service but according to Belgiron that was not the case.
The British Army seems to have changed its formal term for them in about 1955 when the first pamphlets for the Sterling were being introduced. All of the Small Arms Training pamphlets refer to the Machine Carbine (vickersmg.blog/manual/small-arms-training-manuals/) whereas the later Infantry Training series (vickersmg.blog/manual/infantry-training/) call the Sterling the SMG. Given this is a Second World War-based video game and we’re talking about the guns in that context, they’re machine carbines, and for a later video we’ll introduce the Sterling and that’s the SMG.
This is basically why I can't get along with HLL since the British Army addition. For a game that prides itself on a realistic portrayal of WW2 history, it's weapon choices for the British forces were jarringly bad.
Not necessarily. If the bolt is merely caught on the magazine lips or with a bad ejection, taking out the magazine could allow the bolt to go forward and fire a round when not intended. To do the NSPs on a gun, we’d take the mag out after checking the position of the bolt but what you’re seeing here mostly is an IA drill and checking rounds expended.
@@vickersmg I understand. Or course you are right its an open bolt gun and you could execarbate a stoppage into an ND by pulling the mag at the wrong time.
Was the Lanchester Machine-carbine/sub-machine gun ever actually used in active operations during WW2 or since by Royal Marine Commandos or other British or Commonwealth Commando groups? If anyone knows which unit or service branch did & when & where it had been utilized, then could you kindly let me know by a response to this YT thread! Thanks 🙏🏼
It was use by all Royal Navy beach commandos. Per Commando unit (of 70-80men) you'd have seen AT LEAST 9 of these, but possibly more or less mixed with Thompsons. The beach masters body guard should have been issued one of these, but not always. RN commando units were A-W (W being Canadian, and early RN commando units being beach parties rather than Commando.) From 1942-1945 these would have seen use with the Royal Navy beach commandos in all areas of operation and in areas such as Italy and North Africa you don't see a sten gun at all! because they are navy units they did not always get the newer weapons, their machine gun was a stripped lewis!
@@Arcmor1 Thanks 🙏🏼 very much for this interesting & informative response! 😊👍 Additionally to know here, are you aware, if any of these RN Commando units were used at all in the Far East/Indian Ocean theatres of RN Operations during 2WW? Equipped also with the Lanchester Machine Carbine/Sub-Machine Gun, that is?
Matt has done some good work that shows RN Beach parties with Mk 2 Stens so never say never. armourersbench.com/2021/06/06/ww2-makeshift-sten-foregrips/
Bayonets on Submachine guns make more sense than it does Bayonets on Rifles to be honest. They are for closer range so it's logical. All Wars are still Fake though.
Given their value in close combat, and the ‘trench broom’ concept, it’s not surprising that the British took this approach. They continued it throughout all SMGs in service as the Sterling had a bayonet as well.
The Lanchester was only in use by the navy you know (FOR DEFENCE) Not Boarding or Assault. The army never used them. 4:26 : NO...There many crucial mechanical Differences: EG: This carbine is blowback operated from an open bolt and there are no actual RIFLES that have that system. All Rifles have a Locking Bolt and or Gas System (If the are semi auto or select fire) There has never been a blow back open bolt Rifle ever made. I think you two need to go and do some research on basic firearms and how they work.
The Lanchester was used extensively for land service where the Navy went ashore or at shore establishments, with Navy Commandos using them as well. Your other comments don’t make sense as we weren’t discussing rifle and Carbine differences in that way.
Dude the STEN was a legendary piece of work. Its an MP18 made for the brits and i love it. Plus, the vickers is like a Sub but bigger so technically this is still your area of expertise. STEN my beloved ❤
Also i know your social media guy will look thru this sooner or later so lemme say. I know you do the HLL bit to attract views and get us War addicts to click on it, so if i may make a suggestion, do other games! Battlefield 1 is a great option, yknow you can definitely do videos dedicated to the Parabellum, or the M1907, or the Hellriegel (good luck getting an example though)
![[ #1 ] STALKER 2 PLAYTHROUGH • @Ctrl_Fury [ #STREAMING #CHATTING #GAMING ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Swh2S7Mwlmg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ #1 ] STALKER 2 PLAYTHROUGH • @Ctrl_Fury [ #STREAMING #CHATTING #GAMING ]](/img/tr.png)
Love the Lanchester.
The Navy were clever to take that on
We’ve certainly got more coming on the Lanchester as our collections officer is rapidly becoming a specialist on them with some of the most in-depth research ever completed about them.
Thanks very much Richard and Matt.
You’re welcome Derek. Glad you liked it.
My father was armed with Thompson. He joined the Royal Signals in December 1939 and did a grand tour of West Africa, South Africa, East Africa, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, Netherlands and finished his extended travels in Hamburg in 1946. He said he was very fond of his Thompson. I was armed with a Stirling Mk4 in the 70/80s, I loved that weapon.
My grandfather talked of the Thompson as well as the Vickers. We have secured the Sterling for our collection but if you can help crowdfund the Thompson, please do so: vickersmg.blog/product/project-thompson/
@@vickersmg Donation made.
That’s great! Thank you so much!
I have 1 of the last 1907 bayonets ever produced. 1950s dated and RN marked for lanchester.
Awesome. Gyles will want to see that!
Would have loved to see more of the sten MkV. It truly looks like someone saw a Sten mk3 and thought, "Common, we can equip our boys with something a little fancier"
"Surely we can do better than this chaps"
Or just wanted more wood to polish!
I own a Sten MKV in Luxembourg, all original. In my opinion, a brilliant gun. The biggest advantage: easily adjustable sights, excellent sights and sight picture. In my opinion a sub gun without adjustable sights is anything but ideal
Only the foresight is adjustable isn’t it?
@@vickersmg yes exactly, standard No4 Enfield sight
Only a bit of adjustment then. The Thompson Lyman sights are the other extreme!
Great video, thanks for making this series. I’m glad to say that the developers of hell let loose have been hearing the criticisms and have announced that they’re gonna be reworking the British faction and there loadouts to be more accurate so if they follow through that should be good.
Yes it appears they’re taking on board some of the concerns.
I can't help but love the Lanchester and the Thompson. I have a thing for blued steel and walnut.
They’re magnificent pieces of engineering from a time when the customers had the money to spend!!
MY grandfather used a STEN gun throughout his WWII service , he liked it said it was a basic killing machine that keep him alive.
Glad to hear it did. The negative views are often the loudest even if they are the minority.
Thanks for your video. You both delivered on you promise. Very good history and information on the British SMG's of WW2.
The live fire demonstration was a great surprise.
Brilliant! Glad you liked it James.
This is a really decent series. Concise, informative and well presented. Thanks folks.
Thanks! Really appreciate that. Hopefully more of the same in the future.
The STEN definitely caused injuries. My father in law Sgt Herbert Bell SOE MM WWII (deceased) was telling us about when he jumped off a camel the STEN shot him in the foot. His boot felt "squishy and warm" he said and was afraid to take his boot off at first if I remember correctly. Mainly being in the sandy desert in Egypt somewhere, not in action at this particular time and preparing to go over to rescue some US nurses that crashed behind enemy lines, he put off looking into it. Luckily it was a graze and he went on into Europe helped by partisans and a Captain got the nurses out.
That is one of the most interesting stories of a Sten accidental discharge I've heard. A camel! Definitely different than it happening when jumping off a a lorry!
The STEN had two built in safeties, with proper drills it was safe.
Yes, there are unfortunately no shortage of accounts of the Sten causing injuries and sometimes even fatalities when knocked or dropped. Thing is - this was a problem that plagued pretty much all open-bolt blowback SMGs that didn't have proper bolt locks. The Germans had the same problem with their MP 38, the Spanish complained about it with the EMP and the Chinese with the UD M-42.
The problem was addressed later in the war when a push-in bolt locking device was introduced with the Sten Mk. V and retrofitted to Mk. IIs and Mk. IIIs.
All WW2 open bolt SMGs suffered with bolt bounce. Almost all of the them gained a safety cut out to lock the bolt shut.
@@jameslawrence2446 you have to drop it on the butt end with the bolt forward so it has just enough inertia to feed a round from the magazine but not catch the sear, it can be done but its not easy. Unless the sear or bolt is worn there is no clearance for the bolt to slip off the sear with normal handling.
0:00-0:10 nicely controlled bursts!
That’ll be @blackmoreheal and his great game play!
Good job on the video.
Thanks Charles. Very much appreciated.
The MK 3 was the best one in this video. Thompson was like frankinstiens monster. The earlier version too with the cocking lever on the top.
That bayonet is hefty!
It’s unwieldy too! Kept thinking I was going to get Matt with it. - Rich.
Thanks for making the videos 👍
You’re welcome. Glad you like them.
You know the Lanchester was meant for Royal Marines when it has a bayonet attached!
It was great to shoot it like this. Such a different weapon to fire.
Crowd control, just a bit scary!
Looking forward to hearing more on the 'Steampunk' Lanchester. Great video again chaps.
Yes we’ll do some specific videos on the different variations at some point. Lots of info to share as little is out there.
Copy of the mp 28. Nothing original.
We’ll do a side-by-side of those two shortly. There are some differences.
@@vickersmg Sounds good Rich. I knew the Lanchester was derived from the MP 28, but the MP 28 is pretty common, whereas the Lanchester is pretty scarce, well info on it is.
We’re gradually compiling more.
I have not yet found a better machine gun than the Vickers.
We won’t argue that!
@@vickersmg Show me another gun that has that sustained rate of fire?
Great demonstration fellows; thanks for this.
You’re welcome
Jim. Glad you liked it. We’re planning more so make sure you subscribe and perhaps become a member here or on www.patreon.com/VickersMG to help finance them.
Clever idea taking a ww2 game to then talk about the guns... nicely done!
People have to access history some how and if we can tag onto that then why not!
That 50 rd magazine is tell tale that it was not designed for grunts who had to hump it all around.
Or those who had to fill it!
Hey guys loved the vid, im not sure what game you talk about, but I kept wondering where is the "Owen" the little gun that could, Loved by the Brits in Malaya, or was it Borneo, fire from the hip this is your baby. I hope your not a bit biased because we did you at cricket,, lol
We were only looking at SMGs used during the War. The British did indeed adopt the Owen for Malaya and Borneo but not until the 1950s. Great gun! Big Lithgow fans here so we can get over the cricket.
Great overview of the smgs used by the british; i hope to see the M1928 A1 with the drum magazine on the HLL someday, it's a 100% british weapon afaik.
Certainly used by the British in that configuration! We’ve just secured a drum mag so perhaps we need to go to the range again - we still need to finish the crowdfunding on the Thompson though so help out if you can vickersmg.blog/product/project-thompson/
It's funny the bayonet on the SMG carried on until the sterling, since in the Indo-Pakistan wars you see militia groups armed with some weird bayonet thing at the end of the barrel.
Quite possibly locally-made Sterling derivatives.
The sten was used in North Africa it had a plus as it did not need oiling as much as the Thomson
It only started to appear towards the end of the North Africa campaign, primarily with some elements of 1st Army but the Thompson dominated there and then the Mediterranean campaign throughout.
Iv fired a semi auto Stirling once. The guy who owned said it was manufactured as a semi auto version.
Possibly one for a police force that requested it like that.
Gun of this type that are only SEMI AUTO variants are still called CARBINES.
A Carbine is a Shorter than standard issue Rifle (In a Rifle caliber) or it's a Rifle chambered for a Pistol Caliber.
That’s not the definitions the British Army used as we’re discussing British weapons so that’s the perspective we use.
I fucking love sten guns
They’re great! Easy to make and good to fire. People get caught up in them looking too basic but why do you want a pretty gun?
Did see use in North Africa, as was stated navy use.
Royal Navy Commandos had these issued, normally the beach masters bodyguard. Sometimes Thompsons as well.
I’d always thought that a quick rule of thumb was Thompsons for Army or RM Commandos with Lanchesters for RN personnel and commandos.
@@vickersmg not a bad rule, but certainly not what pictures or accounts show. M1a1s and M1928s were used, seemingly more in Italy and the far east. A good mix to be sure, some very cool photos of all 3 sub-machine carbines in use.
Other call them machine-pistols. And that what the Germans call the m18 and they were the ones that developed the machine-pistol. The Lanchester look like a clone between the
Husqvarner/Tikkakoski M37/39 With a firing rate of 900 rounds/M in stacked `Coffin` magazines 58 rounds and the M18. Great video!!👍👍
Thanks! Yes, machine pistols too. We just acquired an MP40 so will be talking about that soon!
I dont really hear it talked about much but it is true that paras used some Stirlings at Market Garden isnt it?
There are unfounded rumours and myths that some of the early Patchett prototypes were sent with the South Staffordshire Regiment and others are sometimes mentioned as well but never with evidence. We will try to follow up with a ‘why not the Sterling’ video at some point.
Be good if you did some tests to iron out the truth and myth regarding dropping STENs.
We’d love to. We need to finish crowdfunding the Thompson before we can consider purchasing a Sten though so please help with that if you can. vickersmg.blog/product/project-thompson/
@@zoiders there are plenty of nonsense myths about STENs being thrown into rooms to clear the room or firing the entire magazine if dropped.
Some written accounts even, but if you read more deeply or find the original, they talk about taping or tying the trigger back first.
Lanchesters often ended up on the rear cabin of an FAA Fairey Fulmar to provide moral support to the TAG.
So, hers my theory. British army have a competition prior to WWII to pick a machine carbine for general army use. They end up picking the two best ones, as it happens, the Suomi and the Berretta. They don’t want to buy the Barretta ‘cos Fascism so they order 25000 of the from the Finns (swapping them for hawker hurricanes) . However, uncle Joe visits Finland and the Fins need to keep their SMGs. Consequently, they end up equipping their infantry units with a lot of SMGs for no other reason than they have lots. This actually works very well. The Russians notice this and copy this development and have their units jammed with sub machine guns. Subsequently, the Germans also noticed this and copied it only they upgraded the weapon to be a bit like a rifle as well. Enter the assault rifle. So, basically, we invented the assault rifle!
Interesting! You ought to have a read of the small arms committee minutes we have on our patreon channel - they cover from 1900 to 1942 at the moment www.patreon.com/VickersMG
Could you get any closer to the target at the beginning? I an surprised you didn't use a rest to improve accuracy.
This video wasn’t about testing the accuracy of the guns, it was about feel and function and comparing agains the game. Accuracy will come another time.
@@vickersmg I noticed.
Hello Vickers MG folks, I just noticed a submachine gun up for auction in NZ which purports to be a paratrooper version of the Lanchester. It has a folding fore grip, a rear pistol grip and also continues to mount the 1907 bayonet. I have never heard of such a thing before and cannot find any photographs of it elsewhere. Would you happen to know anything about this model? I would be happy to pass on the photo.
Sounds interesting. You can email us at collections@vickersmg.org.
An interesting fact is that with the SMLE sword bayonet fixed the Lanchester is the same overall length as the SMLE without it. It would have been good for trench raiding if it had been invented in the First World War.
It’s not. We’ve just posted a comparison photo in our community channel - head over and take a look.
Hi, i think that you should've compared the "grease gun" also next to the Thompson. Regards
The Grease Gun was barely used in British Service, with only the 78th Division having a very limited issue towards the end of the War in Italy. It would be good to do a comparison but not as part of this video series.
Royal Marines with Lancasters and M1 Garands on the Korean Peninsula, setting explosives on a train bridge.
Now that's a picture.
Absolutely. Not one we can recall. Is it online?
@vickersmg No sir. But there is one of landing party Royal Marines in Korea.
Setting charges to blow a rail bridge.
Armed with M1 rifles.
21:06 why does the bolt drop? Shouldn't the empty magazine cut off the trigger mechanism? Maybe the sear didn't catch the bolt?
Yes, we think it was a low-powered last round that didn’t cycle far enough to catch on the sear.
The Thompson seems to have been too expensive even for the Americans as they went a similar way with the M3.
Absolutely! The M3 is a similar concept to the Sten.
A couple of decades ago I was digging a drain at the side of my cottage and unearthed some steel pipes with flanges on them. I immediately lobbed them into my 'useful scrap' bucket and thought no more about them. Later on, I used them as legs for a satellite dish support, bolted to the wall.
They look for all the world like buttstocks from the Mk2 Sten. Just sayin.... who knows who put them there and what the story was.
Lots of stuff ends up in strange places. We still get a few random things handed into us which we’ll keep and display where possible.
20:35 american faction got M1A1 version,which wasn't used by the brits.
Thanks for that. The British Army and Empire did start to get the M1A1 in Italy and very late in North West Europe for some units. I think it’s the 1944 manuals that starts to cover that gun as well. Quite possibly in the far east too but very much out of scope for the game.
@@vickersmg I didn't know it, thank you.
You see them first with New Zealand troops if i remember rightly but the supply chains are so crossed over in Italy that they appear across British troops quite quickly. They even have M3 Grease guns on the 78th Div!
How do you rate the reliability, durability and accuracy of the Lanchester?
"I don't mind ya toots, but my Tommy gun daint!'
They are called 'SUB' machine guns. Because they shoot a 'SUB' Caliber (A pistol Caliber) at a time when the previous Machine guns were all chambered in Rifle ammunition.
In British service sub machine guns were called Machine Carbines because they fulfilled the ROLE that Carbines had held in the British Army. Its not about the weapon, its about the role. I somehow doubt that the British Army of the period really cared very much for what future civilians may think of their naming conventions.
Militaries often do call things by names we would not use outside a military. There are generally reasons behind their choice of nomenclature, even if they are not obvious to you....
Also, to muddy the waters, in many militaries SMG's set for semi auto only are still called carbines. And yes, there are examples of semi auto only SMG's, mostly issued to non front line troops who need something a little heftier than a pistol but do not require the firepower of a full auto SMG.
The British first start calling the SMGs in the 1950s. This is about a video game set in the Second World War so applying later terminology would be incorrect.
Oh yeah here it is😂😂❤❤❤ keep it up guys love the content
Great! Glad you like it.
I'm still taken with the KP31 Suomi - are there other similar weapons that you can change the barrel on? Did the job it was needed for
The Sten Mk II is one!
But, no Owen Gun .... ? Australian machine carbine used by British troops in Malaya.....
We will give the Owen a mention when we do a short video on the post-war use of sub-machine guns and the introduction of the Sterling. It wasn’t used by the British in wartime though, which is very much the scope of the Hell Let Loose game.
i seem to remember a british ? smg with the magazine housing on top of the weapon instead of on the left side anyone know the name ?
It's probably the Australian Owen Gun, it has a similar look to the Sten
Agreed, likely an Owen. An Australian gun but used by the British in the Far East after the war.
Was the Lanchester used by the Royal Navy on land during the Malaysian emergency ?
Quite probably. It was still the service SMG at the time up to its replacement by the Sterling, which might have been as late as the 1960s for some Naval ships.
@@vickersmg From what an ex-RN Matelow was telling me, Lanchester carbines were still on warships on racks that were chained and padlocked. They were common until the late 1970s. He also told me that the RN had a diverse range of side arms in the emergency and the Borneo and Sarawak campaigns of the sixties. As an armourer he was tasked with getting modern weapons Sterlings and FN Browning Hi-Power pistols. He also alluded to a 'black market' with the supply of pump action combat shotguns which the RM and SBS were finding useful in the jungle. The source for these was the US Navy and using the currency of Johnnie Walker Black and Red label whiskey by the crate. He also came across some M1911 Colt automatic pistols that were chambered to .455
Clearly a resourceful chap!
@@vickersmg He also said that the then Minister of Defence Denis Healey (remember this was the Wilson Labour government of 1964-70) came to visit the RN who were doing his governments bidding in Borneo and Sarawak. Healey seemed rather indifferent to their requirements regarding small arms. Which since Healey had served in the British Army in WW2 was rather a moot point.
@@chrisspalding9608 I personally know a gentleman who volunteered and saw action in the jungle in Borneo . He was a sailor in the RN .
1970s veteran here and ive never heard them called a carbine they were always called an SMG.
You had Stens in the 1970s?
@@zoidersIn the 70s the British Army used sterling which were an updated version of the stern really.
@@masaukochitsamba7808Yes I am aware of that. You didn't use STENs though did you? The STEN was referred to as a machine carbine. The Sterling shared some features of the STEN in format but it had a number of material and functional differences including the stock, trigger group, the bolt and the magazine. The post war SMGs of other nations have a much greater resemblance to the STEN than the Sterling did. The Swedish K being notable in that respect.
@@zoiders Belgarion above stated that the type of weapons above were never called carbines, they were known as SMGs. You then stated that they never used stend in the 70s. Now my statement, in support of Mr. Belgiron, is that while they never used Stens in the 70s, the SMG in service was the sterling. What matters here is that as an answer to your question, Stens may not have been in service in the 70s however the sterling were and I assume that these were referred to as SMGs and not carbines then. Mr Belgiron had a problem with the presenters calling these type of weapons carbines because when he was in service they never referred to them as that.
The sten and the sterling are in the same category of weapons and if Stens were referred to as carbines you would assume that the sterling would also be referred to as such because the sterling replaced the sten in service but according to Belgiron that was not the case.
The British Army seems to have changed its formal term for them in about 1955 when the first pamphlets for the Sterling were being introduced. All of the Small Arms Training pamphlets refer to the Machine Carbine (vickersmg.blog/manual/small-arms-training-manuals/) whereas the later Infantry Training series (vickersmg.blog/manual/infantry-training/) call the Sterling the SMG. Given this is a Second World War-based video game and we’re talking about the guns in that context, they’re machine carbines, and for a later video we’ll introduce the Sterling and that’s the SMG.
This is basically why I can't get along with HLL since the British Army addition. For a game that prides itself on a realistic portrayal of WW2 history, it's weapon choices for the British forces were jarringly bad.
It’s disappointing but we understand changes are happening.
Thought it was a machine gun!!!!
Well if you’re using them after 1955 they are!
When clearing the Sten or Lanchester surely its safer to simply remove the magazine before opening the bolt?
Not necessarily. If the bolt is merely caught on the magazine lips or with a bad ejection, taking out the magazine could allow the bolt to go forward and fire a round when not intended. To do the NSPs on a gun, we’d take the mag out after checking the position of the bolt but what you’re seeing here mostly is an IA drill and checking rounds expended.
@@vickersmg I understand. Or course you are right its an open bolt gun and you could execarbate a stoppage into an ND by pulling the mag at the wrong time.
Was the Lanchester Machine-carbine/sub-machine gun ever actually used in active operations during WW2 or since by Royal Marine Commandos or other British or Commonwealth Commando groups? If anyone knows which unit or service branch did & when & where it had been utilized, then could you kindly let me know by a response to this YT thread! Thanks 🙏🏼
There are photos of it on operations with W Commando (Canadian Navy).
@@vickersmg Thanks 🙏🏼👍
It was use by all Royal Navy beach commandos.
Per Commando unit (of 70-80men) you'd have seen AT LEAST 9 of these, but possibly more or less mixed with Thompsons.
The beach masters body guard should have been issued one of these, but not always.
RN commando units were A-W (W being Canadian, and early RN commando units being beach parties rather than Commando.)
From 1942-1945 these would have seen use with the Royal Navy beach commandos in all areas of operation and in areas such as Italy and North Africa you don't see a sten gun at all! because they are navy units they did not always get the newer weapons, their machine gun was a stripped lewis!
@@Arcmor1 Thanks 🙏🏼 very much for this interesting & informative response! 😊👍 Additionally to know here, are you aware, if any of these RN Commando units were used at all in the Far East/Indian Ocean theatres of RN Operations during 2WW? Equipped also with the Lanchester Machine Carbine/Sub-Machine Gun, that is?
Matt has done some good work that shows RN Beach parties with Mk 2 Stens so never say never. armourersbench.com/2021/06/06/ww2-makeshift-sten-foregrips/
Bayonets on Submachine guns make more sense than it does Bayonets on Rifles to be honest. They are for closer range so it's logical.
All Wars are still Fake though.
Yes, bayonets for close range weapons make a lot of sense.
Lanchester is the only ‘good’ rifle when it comes to British faction in game.
It’s a shame it’s a very tenuous link to reality though.
stens are cool........or hot
The best SMG we fired that day!
Putting a bayonet on a subgun seems dumb
Given their value in close combat, and the ‘trench broom’ concept, it’s not surprising that the British took this approach. They continued it throughout all SMGs in service as the Sterling had a bayonet as well.
The Lanchester was only in use by the navy you know (FOR DEFENCE) Not Boarding or Assault. The army never used them.
4:26 : NO...There many crucial mechanical Differences: EG: This carbine is blowback operated from an open bolt and there are no actual RIFLES that have that system. All Rifles have a Locking Bolt and or Gas System (If the are semi auto or select fire) There has never been a blow back open bolt Rifle ever made.
I think you two need to go and do some research on basic firearms and how they work.
The Lanchester was used extensively for land service where the Navy went ashore or at shore establishments, with Navy Commandos using them as well. Your other comments don’t make sense as we weren’t discussing rifle and Carbine differences in that way.
Dude the STEN was a legendary piece of work. Its an MP18 made for the brits and i love it.
Plus, the vickers is like a Sub but bigger so technically this is still your area of expertise.
STEN my beloved ❤
Also i know your social media guy will look thru this sooner or later so lemme say.
I know you do the HLL bit to attract views and get us War addicts to click on it, so if i may make a suggestion, do other games!
Battlefield 1 is a great option, yknow you can definitely do videos dedicated to the Parabellum, or the M1907, or the Hellriegel (good luck getting an example though)
We were surprised how stable and easy the Sten was to shoot.
Yes Battlefield 1 is something we’ll take a look at in the future I’m sure.
Come on... The Lanchester is a 99% copy of the German MP 28/ll
Well we’ll do a little comparison of that side-by-side soon hopefully.