Joe refusing to bomb the geishas gets my approval. Seems the higher ups just didn't know how to handle a crew this crazy. They built insane skills surviving the most dangerous missions, it's inevitable they'd get "creative" in targeting. (Or like in building their own Frankenfortress!)
An ordinary military unit can't use guys who do stuff like that, because if one guy constantly gets away with completely ignoring his orders, then everybody starts to think they can get away with completely ignoring their orders, and the whole military disintegrates. There *are* ways to use guys like this, but it's a lot of extra work. You pretty much have to put them in their own little special-operations unit, keep it away from all the other units, and run it completely differently than the rest of the military. Such units are only valuable if all the people in them are ridiculously skilled and highly resourceful, and they're expensive to run, so you can only ever have a very limited number of them. (On the plus side, you can give them missions that no ordinary unit could ever be expected to pull off.) So it's only worth even trying to salvage and use a recruit who constantly flaunts orders, if he has really abnormally high levels of skill and resourcefulness (like, two standard deviations above the mean) and has personal motivations that allow him to be aimed in a genuinely useful direction most of the time.
@@jonadabtheunsightly There are so many stories of soldiers in just about every war refusing orders, this is not an uncommon thing. There was a very famous instance from I think it was either Vietnam or Korea. Many soldiers refuse to go against personal morals. I personally prefer a soldier that thinks for himself rather than a brainwashed drone just following orders.
hey brother you should let fat electricians ads run, they never last longer than 45 seconds at most and he makes them funny and it gives a chance for your viewers to check out his sponsors
@@GreatgunYu even if that’s the case and he doesn’t want to let the ads run, aight… fine. But the very least he could do is leave a link to TFE’s page or the link to the original video but he won’t even do THAT. It’s really starting to leave a bad taste because Kabir is just NOT showing ANY respect for the creator even after many many comments asking to just do the simplest of tasks.
My son is Military, my DIL was also but then she gave me grandchildren and she wants to raise them. My 14 year old granddaughter has already joined the Jr ROTC .
US military aren't required to follow unlawful orders. HOWEVER, you better be able to defend your refusal in a UCMJ trial. Which is WAY different than civilian court. Of course most officers wise up to the fact, that they're issuing unlawful orders and sweep it under the rug. While also not punishing the offender.
The problem is that it wasn't an unlawful order. Civilian areas being used for military purposes immediately lose their protected status. Like in modern times when terrorist use schools or hospitals as their HQ banking on other militaries to not attack.
@fudg3ynugg3ts11 True. Though I can see why leadership was mad they didn't go for the officers. Japan, unlike the US, kept their best soldiers and officers out on duty until they died or got captured. They'd lose years to decades of experience. The US opted to use their best soldiers and officers to train new recruits to increase their quality as the war went on. Going for the ammo and fuel was an objectively safe bet. Going for the officers could have gone either way and is more dependent on who would replace them.
I love this story, but my heart is so bruised that Jay died. I really didn’t expect that, but he is an actual bona fide hero. Rest in peace Jay, and I truly mean that from the bottom of my heart.
Hey Kabir! I was in the army infantry 1980-1984, and when it comes to completing or better accomplishing a task or mission, you were taught to take initiative. So, did the crew of Old 666 stray from the assigned mission yes, but what were the results of not one but both missions? They reduced enemy ammunition supply and fuel supply, both major blows to the enemy. Did they kill the enemy officers? No. Did they severely cripple the enemy's navy? Yes. Their chain of command had to weigh out the differences and balance the pros and cons before acting. Sort of like War Daddy's chain of command did and saw the bigger picture. There's nothing wrong with taking the initiative. There is something wrong with disobeying orders and not doing your job.
Well, hindsight is also 20/20. NOW we know how much that ammo and fuel meant to the Japanese Navy that was already anemic from the lack of fuel and ammo. Back then, they were still putting on airs that they were still a force capable of global conquest. So taking out 1 or 2 ammo or fuel depots of a "seemingly unstoppable power house" at the time instead of cutting off the head of the snake does seem to be a higher level of "insubordination." However, we now know regardless of those officers being spared they didn't have much of a war left to wage with all the "not-fuel" and "no-ammo" they then had. Each case is unique and it's easier to judge after the fact with more facts.
American pilots were dropping like flies in 1942. Only after we brought in the Corsair and P51 did we start kicking their butt's. The star of the show and most decorated ship was an aircraft carrier, USS ENTERPRISE.
Alot of times its the guys who do the crazy stuff are the ones that get things done. They also end up changing tactics and equipment. That being said, the military can't just let them run wild.
You have to follow orders, even if you don't like them. There are exceptions to the rule however. Example; if your commanding officer orders you to mow down a village of innocent civilians you can disobey that order. If you do follow that order you could be put on trial for war crimes.
The simple fact is that the S always rolls downhill. In times of war, the right ones stand up and take action instead of hiding behind "orders". TFE does an excellent job displaying this.
Wow Gregory Boyington leader of the Black Sheep Squadron. Marines in 1942 Marine Fighting Squadron 214 in the South Pacific. Most of his missions were in that same area of the Eager Beavers.
I bought a hoodie from him. On the front it reads, ITS NEVER A WAR CRIME THE FIRST TIME. One are it has an American flag, the other are it has a WWII era nuclear bomb. It's cool as hell.
Hey I need help deciding what color War Crime T to get, I'm stuck between green and blue, the blue looks awesome but the wording kinda blends in with the green better so it's not as obvious what it says (lots of people I know would find this shirt offensive lol) so I'm not sure which color to get. I wanted a tank but they only come in black and I have too much black clothes.
Hi Kabir ❤. I enjoy your videos, immensely! Thank you for your opinion and the way you represent honour, good morals and respect. I find myself in agreement with you, often. I tend to have high expectations of people and their behaviour. Happy day to you ❤🎉
At 34:35, The Fat Electrician mistakenly said that both Zeamer and Sarnoski were "fatally wounded." Zeamer was badly wounded but lived until 2007. Sarnoski was "mortally" wounded, dying shortly thereafter while still firing his guns. Being assigned to fly many bomber missions, especially for the British and Americans flying over Germany, was nearly a death sentence until late in the war when long-range fighters like the P-51 Mustang could escort the bombers all the way to the target. But there were more dangers than enemy fire. Bombers flying long distances over the ocean, deserts, mountains, or rain forests without modern navigation aids would get lost, presumably, and simply vanish. About 15,000 American aircrew lost their lives during training flights. The B-17, like most of the bombers flown by all nations, had been designed several years before WW2 began, when both fighters and bombers flew at 200-250 mph. Larger bombers devoted about half of their crews to firing several machine guns at attacking fighters. It's doubtful this could have ever worked well, but the newer fighters had top speeds above 350 mph. It became extremely difficult for any human to move a machine gun quickly and accurately enough to track these quicker fighters making evasive maneuvers. Each time a bomber was shot down and its entire crew lost, the number of fatalities was doubled by having so many gunners.
I was intrigued by your comment so I looked it up: ""Fatal" is similar to "mortal", but it can also be used more broadly to refer to something that has major or disastrous consequences, whether or not those consequences involve physical death." So it seems that was an appropriate use of "fatally wounded" by TFE, at least from what my small brain can understand.
@@thamertanner5448 True. "Mortally" is the usual phrase for a human death. I have heard "fatally wounded" used to refer to the thwarting of a person's or organization's efforts to accomplish a goal, especially if it seems like a bad idea.
I love this story, but my heart is so bruised that Jay died. I really didn’t expect that, but he is an actual bona fide hero. Rest in peace Jay, and I truly mean that from the bottom of my heart. 🇺🇸
I would have S myself going 3 miles down in 30 seconds in an old bomber like that and surprised the wings didn't fail! But the alternative was to die of no oxygen so the only alternative. Just proves his impressive piloting skills and suggest 99% of other bombers during that time would have been done for and unable to pull this off.
The mission where everybody swore off flying with him ever again was because Jay was piloting, not gunning... but the maneuver he developee was hella risky... and bombers arent really set up for steep banking maneuvers like that...1. Itts hard on that type of airframe... 2. The other crewmembers arent used to getting thrown sideways in a plane that typically flies pretty level. Anyhow, Jay didnt take down a plane...but he set it up so his gunners could do so... Think: The Force Awakens when Rey flips the Millennium Falcon over to line Finn up for a perfect shot at the TIE chasing them....Jay was Rey in this case.
There's a difference between blind obedience and self discipline. There's some allowance in the United States military for this. If it's stupid, and it works, then it's not stupid.
The military now has special operations units in all the branches. It stands to reason they would have elite warriors in the ranks of these units. Old 666 would no doubt be a special operations crew today.
Gave me a cold shiver, my parents almost sent to the Military Academy in Culver Indiana when I was a kid. Thank goodness I was able to plead my way out of it :)
Still, there's a reason for the chain of command. They probably should have been court Marshall. But I've got the sneaking suspicion their chain of command secretly liked what they did, but had to act angry about it.
USMC Black Sheep Squadron in WWII. Sometimes you have to accommodate screw balls that are so good and terrifying to the enemy. GEN George S. Patton, old Jake McNasty!
There is a difference between not following orders and offering a similar or better solution to an order regarding targets. Sure officials would have been good to get rid of but they are cheaper than fuel and ammo depots and aren’t likely to house civilians
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OK, As a former member of the United States Military, there is a few things that sets us apart from any other military on the planet, now you are right FOR THE MOST PART, we are required to follow the orders that are given to us, BUT, IF those orders are #1. unlawful, #2. run in opposition to your personal morals, or #3. causes civilian casualties that are not needed, we are NOT required to follow them, and you might go as far as saying required to not obey them, very few if any other military on the planet, gives it's service members that little bit of autonomy to the man in the fight to decide what is right before he does it, now like most things in life, this is a double edged sword and it does cut in both directions, so if a U.S. Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine, does exercise that flexibility, there can be repercussions from that decision. and he or she needs to be ready to face those repercussions if they choose to go a different direction, now in Joe Sarnoski's case. I PERSONALLY feel that he did the right thing, the geisha girls did not do anything wrong, and did not deserve a death sentence just because they were Japanese women who were entertaining Japanese Admiral's and Generals. I think most men would have taken out the hotel just on the remote possibility of putting a bomb on Admiral Yamamoto's head, at that time, America was still so furious about Pearl Harbor and EVERYONE on the planet at this point KNEW who was responsible for it, and you can bet that there was not a single American that would not happily trade away their own life if they had the opportunity of killing Admiral Yamamoto, and I do not think that Joe Sarnoski was any different, so although I do not know exactly why he passed on that opportunity, but 1 thing is certain, his decisions really did count for something, the Japanese spent 25 years moving materials, weapons, fuel and other war making supplies into that area, and the truth is, they never recovered from losing all of that forward deployed fuel, and forward deployed armaments, which made our operations in the Southern Pacific much easier and theirs much harder.
When you have a military human asset (individual, crew, unit, whatever) that consistently doesn't obey orders, you can't have it in the normal chain of command, giving everybody else the idea that orders are optional. But if they're exceptionally effective, like these guys, you can isolate them from the normal chain of command by sticking them in a small, non-conventional (typically, special operations) unit that is run completely differently from the rest of the military. Then instead of giving them orders like "go to this location on this day at this time and bomb this building", you give them orders like "Here's a dossier on this enemy high-ranking admiral who is making the enemy navy so effective, it's causing us problems. Here's what we know about his travel plans for the next three weeks, and here's a budget. Neutralize him." And then you don't care whether they bomb the building, or poison the man, or suborn him, or what, as long as he ceases to be a problem. You can of course only do that sort of thing with guys who are highly resourceful and get stuff done. If guys with normal levels of skill and resourcefulness start ignoring orders, you do exactly the opposite: put them into a situation where they're so heavily supervised they can't tie their own shoes without a superior officer noticing immediately, so they can't cause any serious trouble.
The leadership in this shows why Officers should have to earn their rank in combat and do away with training schools and ways to just earn the position doing nothing.
As you noticed what most of the officers in charge in the story did was contrary to common sense. Unfortunately, in the military it's not uncommon for officers to be promoted to the highest level of their incompetence. US military are NOT supposed to follow either illegal or immoral orders (the days of the Nazi SS defense of "I was just following orders" are over) and this hotel bombing was based on a vague rumor from behind enemy line which had not been verified or substantiated in any way, and yet leadership was ordering the murder of innocent civilians in the hotel on the off chance the rumor was true and the Admiral MIGHT be there that night - clearly an immoral order. In fact, even today it is unknown if that rumor was ever true.
You're confusing 3 planes there Kabir and I think that means you have to watch the entirety of one of TFE's videos from start to finish with zero skipping. You're thinking of the AC-130 gunship, confusing it with the A-10 Thunderbolt II "Warthog", while "Old 666" was more akin to an AC-130 or rather more akin to it's fellow B-17 Flying Fortress's or rather more akin to the bigger younger sister of the B-17; the B-29 Super Fortress. Difference was size and size of the guns. Old 666 had bigger guns and more of them for B-17. The B-29 had .50 cal's as the "small caliber" and went up to 20mm cannons. As far as whether or not militaries ought to allow Anti-heroes into their ranks.....There's a couple ways of mulching this over. You either have some insubordinate prick who won't follow the pomp and circumstance, but is able to out perform every soldier on base under the rug at the their niche, or you have a wild card that's in your hands, that could be in a different person's hands, and you have to figure out if that's a live grenade you want to hold onto or not. That's kind of what anti-heroes CAN become, not necessarily what they are and it's also a good rule to note with concerns towards grenades. Once it leaves your hand, Mr. Grenade is no longer yours nor anyone else's friend. So do you want a wild card in your hand or possibly the hand of your opponent? Not saying any "insubordinate soldier" is an anti-hero, but when you look at Russia employing prisoners as soldiers you get to see the crux of the problem. Those prisoners, depending on their record and their crimes, could be ruthless killing machines who don't care as long as they get to kill. What if you let them loose and then try to stop them? What if the other side offers them unfettered killing? What prerogative do they have to stay on "your side"? My theory is that there's a point in which you should permit a level of insubordination, but it all comes down to the deeper drive of the individual. For instance, Joe-Schmoe who just wants to shoot people (no restraint on who) is someone I won't keep around. Jake "McNasty" McNiece, because he wanted to win the war for the US, is someone I'd allow.
If your going to react to the fat electrician, you need to not skip anything in his video including his ads. He lets everyone react to his content freely. Dont be the guy to mess it up by cutting out a bunch of his hard work
"So good at taking down enemy planes.." Ermmmm...they're in a bomber... there job was to not get shot down while blowing stuff up on the ground... they didnt get good at taking down planes, they got good at not getting shot down and putting warheads on foreheads.
(8:32) If he was over 6 ft tall, he did NOT do any "ball turret" work. They were not built large enough for someone that tall. Average height at that time was 5'9".
I'm sorry but continuing to cut out the sponsor and and not providing any links to the original creators despite multiple comments in every video pointing this out in every single one of the reactions you have done does not at all sit right with me and comes across as very scummy. I will no longer be watching or supporting anything this channel does. There are plenty of other reactors that actually have integrity.
@@JPMadden He's a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-communist who sells t-shirts suggesting sexual violence against communists. He also said on a recent podcast that c*mmunists and Nazis are the same. He laughs at, and minimizes, war crimes, including proportionality. (A few days ago Israel fired missiles into a civilian refugee camp in Rafah, killing dozens, decapitating and burning children and injuring hundreds more. Satanyahoo said it was a legal strike bcz they killed two Hamas. This is an example of the war crime of proportionality and there's not a damn thing funny about it.) He supported his podcast partner's run for office despite the fact that he called BLM terrorists and only criticized Israel for their campaign contributions to US politicians, not their ongoing g-cide. And why won't he condemn the leading western *capitalist* nations (US, UK, France, Germany, Canada) who are backing and supporting capitalist Isr*el as they st*rve to death 2.3 million people in Gaza? He condemned the Stalinist Soviet Union for starving East Germans. Does he support starvation when capitalists do it?? These are positions of a fascist.
@@JPMadden he's a loser. He goes on a lot of the Fat Electrician videos to whine, yet never gives a valid reason. Oh, user does love communism and is upset about that.
There is a situations where you don't have to follow orders. Something like killing unarmed civilians in a hotel. You must follow the Constitution. I think Joe acted correctly here.
Joe refusing to bomb the geishas gets my approval. Seems the higher ups just didn't know how to handle a crew this crazy. They built insane skills surviving the most dangerous missions, it's inevitable they'd get "creative" in targeting. (Or like in building their own Frankenfortress!)
An ordinary military unit can't use guys who do stuff like that, because if one guy constantly gets away with completely ignoring his orders, then everybody starts to think they can get away with completely ignoring their orders, and the whole military disintegrates.
There *are* ways to use guys like this, but it's a lot of extra work. You pretty much have to put them in their own little special-operations unit, keep it away from all the other units, and run it completely differently than the rest of the military. Such units are only valuable if all the people in them are ridiculously skilled and highly resourceful, and they're expensive to run, so you can only ever have a very limited number of them. (On the plus side, you can give them missions that no ordinary unit could ever be expected to pull off.) So it's only worth even trying to salvage and use a recruit who constantly flaunts orders, if he has really abnormally high levels of skill and resourcefulness (like, two standard deviations above the mean) and has personal motivations that allow him to be aimed in a genuinely useful direction most of the time.
@@jonadabtheunsightly There are so many stories of soldiers in just about every war refusing orders, this is not an uncommon thing. There was a very famous instance from I think it was either Vietnam or Korea. Many soldiers refuse to go against personal morals. I personally prefer a soldier that thinks for himself rather than a brainwashed drone just following orders.
@@jonadabtheunsightly Thanks for this thoughtful reply!
hey brother you should let fat electricians ads run, they never last longer than 45 seconds at most and he makes them funny and it gives a chance for your viewers to check out his sponsors
Yea I was gonna comment that
He doesn’t do criticism sadly.
@@GreatgunYu even if that’s the case and he doesn’t want to let the ads run, aight… fine. But the very least he could do is leave a link to TFE’s page or the link to the original video but he won’t even do THAT. It’s really starting to leave a bad taste because Kabir is just NOT showing ANY respect for the creator even after many many comments asking to just do the simplest of tasks.
My son is Military, my DIL was also but then she gave me grandchildren and she wants to raise them. My 14 year old granddaughter has already joined the Jr ROTC .
Loved your reaction to the name of the plane.
This is one of my favorite stories from TFE. Love the react!
A-10 Thunderbolt (warthog)
US military aren't required to follow unlawful orders. HOWEVER, you better be able to defend your refusal in a UCMJ trial. Which is WAY different than civilian court. Of course most officers wise up to the fact, that they're issuing unlawful orders and sweep it under the rug. While also not punishing the offender.
The problem is that it wasn't an unlawful order. Civilian areas being used for military purposes immediately lose their protected status.
Like in modern times when terrorist use schools or hospitals as their HQ banking on other militaries to not attack.
@@supremecaffeine2633 they also got away with it because they hit even bigger targets than the original one
@fudg3ynugg3ts11 True. Though I can see why leadership was mad they didn't go for the officers. Japan, unlike the US, kept their best soldiers and officers out on duty until they died or got captured. They'd lose years to decades of experience. The US opted to use their best soldiers and officers to train new recruits to increase their quality as the war went on.
Going for the ammo and fuel was an objectively safe bet. Going for the officers could have gone either way and is more dependent on who would replace them.
I love this story, but my heart is so bruised that Jay died. I really didn’t expect that, but he is an actual bona fide hero.
Rest in peace Jay, and I truly mean that from the bottom of my heart.
Always nice see more Fat Electrician reactions, love history.
I love history too. In fact, I like it so much that I got a college degree in it!
C 47 cargo plane was customized with multiple guns including the electric gatling gun. It was nick named "Puff the Magic Dragon.
Hey Kabir! I was in the army infantry 1980-1984, and when it comes to completing or better accomplishing a task or mission, you were taught to take initiative. So, did the crew of Old 666 stray from the assigned mission yes, but what were the results of not one but both missions? They reduced enemy ammunition supply and fuel supply, both major blows to the enemy. Did they kill the enemy officers? No. Did they severely cripple the enemy's navy? Yes. Their chain of command had to weigh out the differences and balance the pros and cons before acting. Sort of like War Daddy's chain of command did and saw the bigger picture. There's nothing wrong with taking the initiative. There is something wrong with disobeying orders and not doing your job.
Well, hindsight is also 20/20. NOW we know how much that ammo and fuel meant to the Japanese Navy that was already anemic from the lack of fuel and ammo. Back then, they were still putting on airs that they were still a force capable of global conquest. So taking out 1 or 2 ammo or fuel depots of a "seemingly unstoppable power house" at the time instead of cutting off the head of the snake does seem to be a higher level of "insubordination." However, we now know regardless of those officers being spared they didn't have much of a war left to wage with all the "not-fuel" and "no-ammo" they then had. Each case is unique and it's easier to judge after the fact with more facts.
American pilots were dropping like flies in 1942. Only after we brought in the Corsair and P51 did we start kicking their butt's. The star of the show and most decorated ship was an aircraft carrier, USS ENTERPRISE.
The Gray Ghost.
Alot of times its the guys who do the crazy stuff are the ones that get things done. They also end up changing tactics and equipment. That being said, the military can't just let them run wild.
You have to follow orders, even if you don't like them. There are exceptions to the rule however.
Example; if your commanding officer orders you to mow down a village of innocent civilians you can disobey that order. If you do follow that order you could be put on trial for war crimes.
The simple fact is that the S always rolls downhill. In times of war, the right ones stand up and take action instead of hiding behind "orders". TFE does an excellent job displaying this.
One of my favorite stories from TFE, thx for checking it out bro
Wow Gregory Boyington leader of the Black Sheep Squadron. Marines in 1942 Marine Fighting Squadron 214 in the South Pacific. Most of his missions were in that same area of the Eager Beavers.
Admiral Yamamoto was killed around this time when his airplane was shot down at Bougainville by American P38s with extended range fuel tanks.
I bought a hoodie from him. On the front it reads, ITS NEVER A WAR CRIME THE FIRST TIME. One are it has an American flag, the other are it has a WWII era nuclear bomb. It's cool as hell.
Quality feel good? I've been debating on buying some of his merch.
Hey I need help deciding what color War Crime T to get, I'm stuck between green and blue, the blue looks awesome but the wording kinda blends in with the green better so it's not as obvious what it says (lots of people I know would find this shirt offensive lol) so I'm not sure which color to get. I wanted a tank but they only come in black and I have too much black clothes.
I feel like if my high school history teacher taught like this, I would have been a better student.
Hi Kabir ❤. I enjoy your videos, immensely! Thank you for your opinion and the way you represent honour, good morals and respect. I find myself in agreement with you, often. I tend to have high expectations of people and their behaviour. Happy day to you ❤🎉
Thanks for the lovely comment Kim :) you’ve made my day ❤️
At 34:35, The Fat Electrician mistakenly said that both Zeamer and Sarnoski were "fatally wounded." Zeamer was badly wounded but lived until 2007. Sarnoski was "mortally" wounded, dying shortly thereafter while still firing his guns.
Being assigned to fly many bomber missions, especially for the British and Americans flying over Germany, was nearly a death sentence until late in the war when long-range fighters like the P-51 Mustang could escort the bombers all the way to the target. But there were more dangers than enemy fire. Bombers flying long distances over the ocean, deserts, mountains, or rain forests without modern navigation aids would get lost, presumably, and simply vanish. About 15,000 American aircrew lost their lives during training flights.
The B-17, like most of the bombers flown by all nations, had been designed several years before WW2 began, when both fighters and bombers flew at 200-250 mph. Larger bombers devoted about half of their crews to firing several machine guns at attacking fighters. It's doubtful this could have ever worked well, but the newer fighters had top speeds above 350 mph. It became extremely difficult for any human to move a machine gun quickly and accurately enough to track these quicker fighters making evasive maneuvers. Each time a bomber was shot down and its entire crew lost, the number of fatalities was doubled by having so many gunners.
I was intrigued by your comment so I looked it up:
""Fatal" is similar to "mortal", but it can also be used more broadly to refer to something that has major or disastrous consequences, whether or not those consequences involve physical death."
So it seems that was an appropriate use of "fatally wounded" by TFE, at least from what my small brain can understand.
@@thamertanner5448 True. "Mortally" is the usual phrase for a human death. I have heard "fatally wounded" used to refer to the thwarting of a person's or organization's efforts to accomplish a goal, especially if it seems like a bad idea.
24:10 it’s the A-10 warthog, and also American, which isn’t surprising considering it’s essentially a gun with wings
Check out Monteymayor and the battle of Midway from both the Japanese and US perspective - more of a docu series but fascinating!
I love this story, but my heart is so bruised that Jay died. I really didn’t expect that, but he is an actual bona fide hero.
Rest in peace Jay, and I truly mean that from the bottom of my heart. 🇺🇸
FE tells the BEST war stories.
Excellent analysis.
good video, not following orders that is why you have special operations for the best that think outside the box.
I would have S myself going 3 miles down in 30 seconds in an old bomber like that and surprised the wings didn't fail! But the alternative was to die of no oxygen so the only alternative.
Just proves his impressive piloting skills and suggest 99% of other bombers during that time would have been done for and unable to pull this off.
The mission where everybody swore off flying with him ever again was because Jay was piloting, not gunning... but the maneuver he developee was hella risky... and bombers arent really set up for steep banking maneuvers like that...1. Itts hard on that type of airframe... 2. The other crewmembers arent used to getting thrown sideways in a plane that typically flies pretty level.
Anyhow, Jay didnt take down a plane...but he set it up so his gunners could do so...
Think: The Force Awakens when Rey flips the Millennium Falcon over to line Finn up for a perfect shot at the TIE chasing them....Jay was Rey in this case.
There's a difference between blind obedience and self discipline. There's some allowance in the United States military for this. If it's stupid, and it works, then it's not stupid.
The military now has special operations units in all the branches. It stands to reason they would have elite warriors in the ranks of these units. Old 666 would no doubt be a special operations crew today.
Gave me a cold shiver, my parents almost sent to the Military Academy in Culver Indiana when I was a kid. Thank goodness I was able to plead my way out of it :)
The plane you're thinking of is the a-10 warthog
Still, there's a reason for the chain of command. They probably should have been court Marshall. But I've got the sneaking suspicion their chain of command secretly liked what they did, but had to act angry about it.
That guy has more stuff on his refrigerator than I do !!
Lol that ain't no refrigerator 😂
Bang box
That's his freedom locker.
@@johnwray393 almost a hurt locker one could say 😆
Rules are rules
But right is right. 🇺🇸
Could you link the original video in your descriptions, please.
USMC Black Sheep Squadron in WWII. Sometimes you have to accommodate screw balls that are so good and terrifying to the enemy. GEN George S. Patton, old Jake McNasty!
@KabirConsiders The US military does have a tradition of looking the other way when rockstar service members don't follow orders.
Love Tfe reacts!
He was the pilot that gave Gunners the opportunity to shoot down that plane. Not the gunner that shot down the plane.
There is a difference between not following orders and offering a similar or better solution to an order regarding targets.
Sure officials would have been good to get rid of but they are cheaper than fuel and ammo depots and aren’t likely to house civilians
You mean the A-10 Warthog.
That’s the one!
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Our 🇺🇸 Flag Represents Our Fallen Patriots & Servicemen & women .. This is why we get so upset when people Burn it, take a knee to it, or Disrespect it in anyway 😢 Even though they have a right to do so 😢 But I bet Our Fallen Patriots would be the first to Defend them & their Freedoms that we all take for Granted 😢
❤GOD Bless you all my Sister's & Brothers from other Mother's I ❤Love you all .. In ❤JESUS name i pray 🙏Amen. 😗💋😍😊🇺🇸🙏😇👍
The highest fatality rate for a military unit in WWII was the 8th Air Force in Europe.
OK, As a former member of the United States Military, there is a few things that sets us apart from any other military on the planet, now you are right FOR THE MOST PART, we are required to follow the orders that are given to us, BUT, IF those orders are #1. unlawful, #2. run in opposition to your personal morals, or #3. causes civilian casualties that are not needed, we are NOT required to follow them, and you might go as far as saying required to not obey them, very few if any other military on the planet, gives it's service members that little bit of autonomy to the man in the fight to decide what is right before he does it, now like most things in life, this is a double edged sword and it does cut in both directions, so if a U.S. Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine, does exercise that flexibility, there can be repercussions from that decision. and he or she needs to be ready to face those repercussions if they choose to go a different direction, now in Joe Sarnoski's case. I PERSONALLY feel that he did the right thing, the geisha girls did not do anything wrong, and did not deserve a death sentence just because they were Japanese women who were entertaining Japanese Admiral's and Generals. I think most men would have taken out the hotel just on the remote possibility of putting a bomb on Admiral Yamamoto's head, at that time, America was still so furious about Pearl Harbor and EVERYONE on the planet at this point KNEW who was responsible for it, and you can bet that there was not a single American that would not happily trade away their own life if they had the opportunity of killing Admiral Yamamoto, and I do not think that Joe Sarnoski was any different, so although I do not know exactly why he passed on that opportunity, but 1 thing is certain, his decisions really did count for something, the Japanese spent 25 years moving materials, weapons, fuel and other war making supplies into that area, and the truth is, they never recovered from losing all of that forward deployed fuel, and forward deployed armaments, which made our operations in the Southern Pacific much easier and theirs much harder.
When you have a military human asset (individual, crew, unit, whatever) that consistently doesn't obey orders, you can't have it in the normal chain of command, giving everybody else the idea that orders are optional. But if they're exceptionally effective, like these guys, you can isolate them from the normal chain of command by sticking them in a small, non-conventional (typically, special operations) unit that is run completely differently from the rest of the military. Then instead of giving them orders like "go to this location on this day at this time and bomb this building", you give them orders like "Here's a dossier on this enemy high-ranking admiral who is making the enemy navy so effective, it's causing us problems. Here's what we know about his travel plans for the next three weeks, and here's a budget. Neutralize him." And then you don't care whether they bomb the building, or poison the man, or suborn him, or what, as long as he ceases to be a problem. You can of course only do that sort of thing with guys who are highly resourceful and get stuff done. If guys with normal levels of skill and resourcefulness start ignoring orders, you do exactly the opposite: put them into a situation where they're so heavily supervised they can't tie their own shoes without a superior officer noticing immediately, so they can't cause any serious trouble.
A10 go Brrrrrrr!
Love these great reaction ❤
24:10 you ask about a plane it call an AC-130
The A10 warthog
Americans are just built different. There is no quiet in us. Thats what American sports teach us.
A-10 warthog
Yep that’s the one I was thinking of
Your questions are why I focused on business ethics rather than military or bio ethics. With either of the latter, people's lives are on the line.
Hey gr8 video, Kudo's
A 10 warthog
The leadership in this shows why Officers should have to earn their rank in combat and do away with training schools and ways to just earn the position doing nothing.
24:05 The Warthog?
“Because they are lighter”😂 no because dude can barely fit and the g forces would be insane.
You referring to the warthog?
Hope i can skip your ads like you do everyone elses
As you noticed what most of the officers in charge in the story did was contrary to common sense. Unfortunately, in the military it's not uncommon for officers to be promoted to the highest level of their incompetence. US military are NOT supposed to follow either illegal or immoral orders (the days of the Nazi SS defense of "I was just following orders" are over) and this hotel bombing was based on a vague rumor from behind enemy line which had not been verified or substantiated in any way, and yet leadership was ordering the murder of innocent civilians in the hotel on the off chance the rumor was true and the Admiral MIGHT be there that night - clearly an immoral order. In fact, even today it is unknown if that rumor was ever true.
KABIR! hi buddy
Thank God for renagades
You're confusing 3 planes there Kabir and I think that means you have to watch the entirety of one of TFE's videos from start to finish with zero skipping. You're thinking of the AC-130 gunship, confusing it with the A-10 Thunderbolt II "Warthog", while "Old 666" was more akin to an AC-130 or rather more akin to it's fellow B-17 Flying Fortress's or rather more akin to the bigger younger sister of the B-17; the B-29 Super Fortress. Difference was size and size of the guns. Old 666 had bigger guns and more of them for B-17. The B-29 had .50 cal's as the "small caliber" and went up to 20mm cannons.
As far as whether or not militaries ought to allow Anti-heroes into their ranks.....There's a couple ways of mulching this over. You either have some insubordinate prick who won't follow the pomp and circumstance, but is able to out perform every soldier on base under the rug at the their niche, or you have a wild card that's in your hands, that could be in a different person's hands, and you have to figure out if that's a live grenade you want to hold onto or not. That's kind of what anti-heroes CAN become, not necessarily what they are and it's also a good rule to note with concerns towards grenades. Once it leaves your hand, Mr. Grenade is no longer yours nor anyone else's friend. So do you want a wild card in your hand or possibly the hand of your opponent?
Not saying any "insubordinate soldier" is an anti-hero, but when you look at Russia employing prisoners as soldiers you get to see the crux of the problem. Those prisoners, depending on their record and their crimes, could be ruthless killing machines who don't care as long as they get to kill. What if you let them loose and then try to stop them? What if the other side offers them unfettered killing? What prerogative do they have to stay on "your side"?
My theory is that there's a point in which you should permit a level of insubordination, but it all comes down to the deeper drive of the individual. For instance, Joe-Schmoe who just wants to shoot people (no restraint on who) is someone I won't keep around. Jake "McNasty" McNiece, because he wanted to win the war for the US, is someone I'd allow.
If your going to react to the fat electrician, you need to not skip anything in his video including his ads. He lets everyone react to his content freely. Dont be the guy to mess it up by cutting out a bunch of his hard work
"So good at taking down enemy planes.."
Ermmmm...they're in a bomber... there job was to not get shot down while blowing stuff up on the ground... they didnt get good at taking down planes, they got good at not getting shot down and putting warheads on foreheads.
(8:32) If he was over 6 ft tall, he did NOT do any "ball turret" work. They were not built large enough for someone that tall. Average height at that time was 5'9".
I'm sorry but continuing to cut out the sponsor and and not providing any links to the original creators despite multiple comments in every video pointing this out in every single one of the reactions you have done does not at all sit right with me and comes across as very scummy. I will no longer be watching or supporting anything this channel does. There are plenty of other reactors that actually have integrity.
Every Fascist Electrician reaction earns a hard down vote.
Lmfao oooh are your delicate sensibilities hurt? Poor baby
@@kingjellybean9795 Are you going to start crying because of one critical comment?
I'm curious why you call him a fascist. I'm a proud liberal who enjoys military history. I hate both communism and fascism.
@@JPMadden He's a foaming-at-the-mouth anti-communist who sells t-shirts suggesting sexual violence against communists. He also said on a recent podcast that c*mmunists and Nazis are the same. He laughs at, and minimizes, war crimes, including proportionality. (A few days ago Israel fired missiles into a civilian refugee camp in Rafah, killing dozens, decapitating and burning children and injuring hundreds more. Satanyahoo said it was a legal strike bcz they killed two Hamas. This is an example of the war crime of proportionality and there's not a damn thing funny about it.) He supported his podcast partner's run for office despite the fact that he called BLM terrorists and only criticized Israel for their campaign contributions to US politicians, not their ongoing g-cide. And why won't he condemn the leading western *capitalist* nations (US, UK, France, Germany, Canada) who are backing and supporting capitalist Isr*el as they st*rve to death 2.3 million people in Gaza? He condemned the Stalinist Soviet Union for starving East Germans. Does he support starvation when capitalists do it?? These are positions of a fascist.
@@JPMadden he's a loser. He goes on a lot of the Fat Electrician videos to whine, yet never gives a valid reason. Oh, user does love communism and is upset about that.
There is a situations where you don't have to follow orders. Something like killing unarmed civilians in a hotel. You must follow the Constitution. I think Joe acted correctly here.
A-10 Warthog