Filters in the Real World (English)
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- Опубліковано 21 жов 2024
- The Meyer Sound Education team share information about high-pass, low-pass, all-pass, and shelving filters from the point of view of phase, momentum as well as consequences in systems tuning.
Hosts: Meyer Sound Senior Technical Seminar Instructor Mauricio "Magú" Ramirez and Technical Services Manager, Latin America Oscar Barrientos
Language: English
We used to used the filter delay I think I used in a graduation lot of work and time Magu you did it quick
Why did you not explain group delay, which is arguably must more important than phase delay? Is says group delay on several slides, but no info.
Also, you can clearly see that flipping polarity of one of the filter section does indeed matter, since the total phase will be different, and so one will be transient perfect, and the other will not. Had you explained group delay, this would have shown the issue. I do not get a feeling that you actually understand these important aspects.
Thanks for this video
But, the end of your presentation bothers me a bit because you're not really getting to the end of things ... maybe a lack of time? more videos on the subject to come?
Bravo already for the presentation of the functioning of the filters and their relation to the phase curve, the explanation is very clear. Thank you !
On the other hand, at the end, you show that we can replace a delay by a filter to change the slope of the phase curve, ok, but you don't really explain that it will change the overall phase of the system and therefore the moment when the different frequencies will be restored by the system with respect to each other.
We agree that it may be interesting to increase the delay group of only part of the frequencies of the system with a filter rather than increasing the delay group of all the frequencies of the system in some cases, but I would have liked you to sensitize the public a little more on the consequences of ‘’degrading’’ the overall phase of the system, rather than adding delay group on the entire system. but it does not do the same thing, it does not give the same result.
I like to say, when we talk about phase, that we have to solve the temporals problems with delay, the polarity problems with the polarity and the filtering problems with filters
otherwise it is hacking that must be used in certain very particular cases with great care
I say this because I have seen a lot of people who misunderstand the phase and make big mistakes in optimizing the system
Above all, I am quite surprised that a brand which attaches a lot of importance to the global phase of its speakers for a very long time, and of which one can read quite remarkable publications on this subject (the white paper of John Meyer for example) to promote phase manipulation techniques without warning about its consequences.
anyway i am not making his remarks negatively, hope they can move things forward in a positive way and thanks again for your fantastic education work
Hello Christophe Chapuis
Thanks for your comment we appreciate it. I think we are in the same page, I mean people need to know the tools they have a how to better optimize those for the goal they are looking for, and we think that the best way to do this is to generate a minimum phase change, so if you have the opportunity to have a better phase trace, it’s a good idea to go for it, but if you are dealing with a system where the only option to have a match phase response is to use an APF then I do personally think our best option is to match the phase response.
On the other hand when you are having two options for the same problem, for example when you are dealing with main and subs phase align process you have to select your "medicine", delay or an APF, in the examples we use the idea was to see one or the other option but (again) for me by knowing your options you can generate more ideas how to reduce the latency for your system (by using an APF) if that is your goal or how to match the phase response between your main and subwoofer system by using time if that is what you want.
I have been in some cases where latency is like the devil so people don’t want to add more latency and they do prefer to increase a little bit the slope of the phase trace, and some times the APF is just moving a little bit more the phase I mean not more that 60 or 120 degrees.
If I read your ideas well, yes I go with you, if can do a better job by doing just a good design then you are optimizing the whole system from the beginning. I also go with you on the idea that people need to know better these concepts to control those variables involve in the sound systems optimization.
And finally your comment never are going to be into the dark side of our feelings, always it is really good to hear from people like your that are worried about how human beings are dealing with the technology that they are using and it is always a pleasure to read this great comments that help us a lot to be a better source of information and to share with fresh ideas our next webinar, so thanks a lot for your comment.