AS a "newbie" to N-scale DCC, it was suggested that I start with a NCE Power Cab basic starter system. I did, but I really didn't know of all it's features. This video is excellent. Merf explained things that even a non-techie like me can understand. I enjoyed & really appreciated his help!
When I converted to DCC, my hobby shop also recommended the NCE Power Cab starter system, so I bought one. I asked about Digitrax, but he didn't carry it. After using it, I didn't like it all that much. I wanted more control, but despite what people say, the single-throttle Power Cab doesn't play well with the multi-throttle Pro Cab system. I also wanted an actual knob to control speed, but the Digitrax system looks like it was made by a kid in his bedroom. I bought a "new old stock" MRC Prodigy Elite Wireless system from eBay and I love it!
As a guy who is just getting started using dcc for the first time (coming from Lionel trains) I really appreciate this video. You did an awesome job putting the details and facts out, did a great job showing me what these systems really look like.
As a fellow NCE user and DCC tutor, I would never recommend adding zeros (“0”) to the front of an address. This confuses systems as they can’t read the numbers but know there’s a figure there. In other words these digits are invisible to the system. If you have a loco that has less than 4 digits, you can still enter it into the system without the preceding zeros. For example #945 can simply be entered as 945. Alternatively if you don’t feel comfortable with that, you can always switch to single digit addresses or add the zeros at the end. For example #945 could be entered as 9450. I hope that this is not too confusing and happy to answer any questions you may have on this subject. 😊
This episode opened my brain enough to understand most of what was presented but I was hoping for more beginner equipment to be featured. Specifically I am considering the NCE PowerCab and the Digitrax Zephyr Extra and I’m hoping to build a few dioramas with locomotives with DCC sound and lighting, hopefully followed by a layout as soon as I figure out how to find space in my home. So a starter level control is my first decision. What I learned was that the NCE unit seems more logically designed and is intuitive enough so a beginner could start more easily, take for instance building a consist. I understood each NCE step. Very logical. The Digitrax unit lacked a logical design in that an experienced user had to explain how to do it because the unit did not provide basic feedback and unit labeling provided no hint at what to do next. Is the Digitrax Zephyr Extra as counter intuitive as the unit shown in your video? Any thoughts? FYI, I currently do not belong to any club or know anyone in one to ask my dumb questions. Thanks for all your videos, they help a lot.
Not mentioned in the video about NCE, like Digitrax you can do the higher level functions such as the operation of accessories, run or program macros, make used of functions 11-29, and run multiple trains on a single throttle. Also it is important to note with either system, delete consists before moving engines to another layout or you will have all kinds of problems.
Much appreciated video. I bought NCE about 10 years ago, never got into other than initial programing a loco or too, then had to pack up and move. Recently unpacked and bought N scale locomotive with sound...was disappointed in the sound, started doubting DCC, with out sound, DCC seemed to be nothing more than a glorified light switch. This video showed me there is more, the Consist and the app for SW to further program open my eyes to more possibilities. Thank you.
I agree with Paul Kirkman--I made the same choice recently as my first foray into DCC. I must admit technology wise I was impressed with the ESU ECoS, but at this point was cost prohibitive. During my research I found the NCE display much easier to work with. Nice going John--keep em coming. Looking for a new model series............
Any chance Rich is willing to provide schematic and material list for his PowerCab/Program Track tool box? Nice setup complete with electrical outlets at top and inside. Much appreciated.
Great video John, Rich's converted tool box is genius, but you had me at ESU in one of your prior videos. The conversation was quite informative, good choice of individuals, they were very comfortable discussing their area with no overzealous opinions.
Yes, I did not want the information to become a bashing of the other system. The fact is that probably almost any DCC system can be set up and provide tons of enjoyment. I have seen it debated and argued about ad nauseam and think it's a lot like the "Who's the best guitarist in the world" or "Who's the best drummer in the world" arguments. You can have your favorite, but that doesn't make it the best. Use what you like and be happy. :D
Thanks so much for posting this as it answers so many questions concerning the two main choices. I know there are many more options out there but the main interest I have found is between theses two. Your points are right on and it was great to get input from two different operators. Our club uses digitrax ( tethered) throttles at the moment but a few of our members have NCE for their home layouts as well. We also use both on our programming tracks so get the best of both worlds! Keep up the great videos...they help lots of us out here😎🇦🇺
Pardon me John. But I was wondering about something. At 15:19 I saw a tool Box that looked like it was converted into a programming stage of sorts. I was wondering what it's called and how does it work cause I'm interested in building one.
i got my first dcc steam engine and i got a N.C.E. to go with it an i dont know how to use it the NCE comes with everything but the contention wires for the track like why
This is a video I have been waiting for a long time for someone to make. I have the nce but almost got the digi Trax system. I like way you compared both system not really favoring one over the other. Our has in the future you could do a little more in depth video on both systems. Great video ,keep um comin.
Good presentation of these 2 options. I've noticed that several people have the NCE Power Cab at their workbench for programing and testing even though they may have another system to run the layout. These are the 2 American control systems, however, there are new options from Europe now becoming available in the US, i.e., ESU and Z21.The Roco Z21 and the Digikeijs DR5000 have wi-fi built in and offer compatibility with other systems. I've seen Digitrax,, ESU, and Roco controllers as well as wireless phones and tablets all attached simultaneously to these controllers. And it is asserted the new Proto Throttle is also compatibile. Plus you can connect with JMRI. That's real flexibility.
Lots of options continue to come down the pipeline. I chose these two because they seem to be the topic for weekly "debates" on FaceBook groups. Did I say debates? I meant arguments! :))
Thank You John for the great video information. Spending gobs of money without a clear choice through this kind of experience tends to stop most of us in our tracks and delay of purchase is lost time in the fun zone. I delayed buying my NCE system until I was well into years of near zero information. I only came across a few videos that offered scant information and mostly un-boxings. My first DCC system was a BACHMAN and only because I was not sure about selecting DCC over DC and I was not about to invest in the change over without some kind of hands on try out. The BACHMAN worked very well but was limited on features because it was their first foray into the market. Their warranty dept.,parts dept and general help were always fast,friendly and 1st. rate so anyone that wants to try at the beginners level should be confident in that choice too. The NCE POWER CAB has been like driving a New car but the adjustment is easier than I expected. Now that I know the differences I'm extremely happy with DCC and my choice of it. Best Regards to all of you that contributed to this excellent video production. Joe W.
Ditto I did the same thing, started out with Bachmann EZ Command and even purchased the 5 Amp booster, my layout is two levels with a subway system on the bottom and it's 11' X 25', been using it for the past 12 years along with exploring the fabulous world of CV's using JMRI Decoder Pro and Digitrax sound decoder programmer for downloading custom sounds for my Digitrax decoders that are downloadable...just recently purchased NCE Powercab and love it...probably give my Bachmann system to one of my grandyoungin's and expand my system with NCE and Pro Cab, did much research during these past 12 years even with Bachmann's Dynamis system, didn't really care for the reviews that I read about that system, even on the Ask the Bachmann site, NCE had the least problems that I found if any...just my choice also drive Ford vehicles, but I like Chevy too, but Ford has been my priority....same thing Digitrax vs NCE...
Thanks John, and very timely for me. I have been questioning my loyalty to Digitraxx and have looked at NCE. Still not sure, but I have a fair investment in Digitraxx accessories. I'm not real bright at the electronics side of the hobby and I appreciate Digitraxx LocoNet plug-and-play system to add accessories. Your video (and your fine field reporters) have given me a lot to consider! Thank you very much.
I have been under the impression that either system works fine under most conditions that do not push it to its limits, but I can tell you that most of the the "hard core" operators I've come in contact with prefer NCE.
Very informative. I have just started in OO /HO after 25 years out in the garden RR . I am constructing a switching layout to pass the dreary winter days in Canada. This tips the scale to NCE simple comfortable and not complicated as much . Given Ring Engineering and Revolution in G scale why hasn"t OO/HO evolved to radio control direct to the engine or device and constant track power. Much simpler .
Imo a clear and useful look at the systems reviewed. Nicely done! We use Digitrax and I think we probably chose it because the Santa Clara train club was using it. Never tried the other one so I can't really compare the two. The upgraded Digitrax system has an opportunity to improve however, btw: Steal Zap should have an option to disable it entirely. I'm sure it's useful for some, but for us it just gets in the way. Thanks! Jen
Thanks for the compliment and for watching. After reading all the responses from the modelers I contacted, it was easy to see that the "best" depends on your needs and preferences.
I am currently building an O scale 2 rail loop layout 34foot long 3-6 feet wide. 6 feet wide at the ends where loops are total of 6 turnouts. 2 locos Atlas gp60 and one gp38-2. Can you recommend a NCE system? Will a 5 amp work or should I go 10amp?
Great video. My first DCC system has been NCE PowerCab. I am still using it. I bought a 10 amp toggle switch and use it for my MRC Master20 DC system. I also bought a smaller switch to turn off the NCE (including the entire layout) when there is a short or other problems. The only issue with both DCC systems is that none have an off/on switch component unless you unplug it from the wall. I have the option of operating locomotives that have decoders or are analog. So far the NCE works for me.
Dual power is the what I used ! Have a lot,lot of DC locomotive 🚂 and alot of dcc/sound 🚂 ( I would be in the tens of thousands of $ ) if changes all!!
@@tsgmultimedia how the person who did the powercab review managed to get his original controller on a test track to get the correct sounds on his computer to match the decoder for his engine
I have both digitrax and MRC starter set,s they both work good for my small layout.But i think digitrax has more expandable to enlarge your layout. If and when you have the room.
Got yer answer. I haven't built a layout (ever), but was considering it for my grandson, but my son said his son would not be interested. While talking to him, it seems that my son is right. Thanks for your timely reply. npk
Problem: Have two F7 A units both programmed to 42 (two digit) and I want to run one unit in reverse mode. I used my Broadway Ltd 'programmer' to set the loco to run in reverse. It will not work, so what are the CV's I need to change to get this to work? What am I doing wrong. Please respond.
If I understand this: If I put a NCE module in my engine, that engine then will not run on a Digitrax system? So, if I travel to a club with Digitrax I can't use my engine on their layout? Is there any system that would allow me to run an engine on both systems without taking the engine apart and changing the module?
I think you misunderstood something. Decoders in models work with any system, thanks to NMRA standards. It's the brand-specific throttles and power/control components that won't necessarily work with DCC systems from other brands.
Very useful and well explained use of both systems.Have only used Digitrax Easy DCC and Lenz. One thing not talked about the throttles. Only the 400 or 500 throttles can MU locomotives, then dispatch or steal to the UT throttles. Some people will not let throttles that can program used at op session.
Hey, Murf. I have both the 5 amp ProCab radio and the PowerCab. To use JMRI with the ProCab with my MacBook, I had to buy a serial port connector for my base station that goes to USB. I haven't used the PowerCab yet. Is there now a better way without the serial port connector if I use the PowerCab? I wasn't clear on that part. Thanks.
For the Power Cab system you get the "USB Interface for Power Cab" - www.ncedcc.com/online-store/USB-Interface-for-Power-Cab-p38322160 You'll need a USB cable like you'd connect to a printer (something like www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-2-0-Cable-Male/dp/B00NH11KIK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1521960143&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+printer+cable ) The NCE site has a link to the driver you'd need to install for a Mac.
Yes! A "how-to" video on the box and certainly a video on explaining the mystery that is JMRI. I bought the serial connector, but haven't yet had the courage to try to figure out JMRI.
Hey John! Don't quote me on this, but I believe Rail-pro now has a Hybrid Loco decoder that runs on their radio system and DCC. I believe it is the LM-3S. I just purchased 5 of them at about $83 each. Their previous LM-2S was radio only. I brought this up because I heard you mention Rail-pro briefly in this video. I hope this helps, Russ.
Great comparison video! Nice work, John! However, I completely disagree about the battery voltage ("if it drops below 9 volts you need to change it"). Nonsense. We have two DT402Ds, two DT500Ds and one UT4D on a 1300 square foot, two-level layout. We don't change batteries until they hit about 7.5 volts, and even then they still work fine, but the voltage drops rapidly when you get that low. We've operated for hours with all throttle batteries in the 8 volts or less neighborhood with absolutely no problem, and we have only ONE UR92, centrally located up high.
Thanks for the good INFO. I found it very helpful also intuitive. As a novice, think of taking up the moddle railway hobby. I am impressed With the DCC system in N scale and trying to find the best starter pack. To expand from. I don't have a lot of room to play with
Chances are that you can use either one of these brands' starter systems without a problem. It would be best to find someone who has each one and try it out. If you have many friends who have one or the other, pick the one they have so you can get help if you need it.
I strongly believe that it would be a good idea for anyone contemplating adding DCC to their layout to read a few books or articles on the subject in order to learn terminology and the basics.
@@tsgmultimedia Thanks, John! I am planning a little 4-ft. X 10-ft. N-scale layout, based on the Androscoggin Central plan and layout which is featured in Marty McGuirk's book, N-Scale Model Railroading: Getting Started in the Hobby. From what I hear and have read myself, I am leaning toward the NCE system which I think will work better for a small layout such as the one that I am contemplating. Great overview of these systems. Now, I will go and read Kalmbach's DCC book and get a leg up on all of this.
Before moving to the US from Europe I had a Roco DCC model. With their DCC Multimaus I could control turnouts, not only locos. I cannot see if Digitrax or NCE do this?
Has the NCE system changed since this video was made? Have they added any of the advanced functions like operating switches or similar layout features? Or is it basically just a locomotive controller?
I wonder if it matters which 9v rechargeable batteries he meant for us to purchase on Amazon though? Or does it matter? Also, my Digitrax DCS51 says to consist choose a TOP address. Could I choose my TOP address as the same as the first loco in my consist that has sound? otherwise, you have to switch to the TOP address to control speed and direction then back to the lead loco for blowing the horn, lights, etc. Thanks John. Cheers, Dan
Great video, as always. I have used both the Digitrax system and the NCE, The club I joined uses NCE, so that was a determining factor on which system for me to buy. Both systems have good and poor points, and I think that you cant go wrong with either one. I do like the box that Murf made. Does he have information on what he has inside of it, or maybe a wiring diagram or some detailed pictures that he would share.
I will ask Murf to pop in here when he has time to answer some questions. That box is totally cool. I might even consider getting one of those power cab things just so I could build a box like that.
I'd made a version previously in a box that was quite a bit smaller. I went a little "deluxe" for this one. I put in a computer power-supply style AC line in to provide power to everything. There are electrical boxes protecting wiring from that input to an outlet on the top panel and an internal outlet where I plug in the power cab "wall wart". The top outlets include built-in USB power outlets for recharging phones etc. Other than that I used a Power Cab with the Power Cab USB Interface to connect my computer. I extended the USB out to a panel style jack to make it easy to plug a USB connector to my Mac. My "programming track" is PC-ties with rails soldered on. You could obviously just use a piece of flex track or something. I did the PC ties so that at some point I'll "dual gauge" the track to be able to program N scale engines. I made another DCC track output to a panel mounted set of Anderson Power Pole connectors. I keep various cords in the well of that tool box with the matching power pole configuration to connect small layouts, probes to power accessory or decoders (out of the engine) etc. To have a convenient way to mount the USB connector and Power Pole DCC bus interface I made a small panel with my 3d printer. (Hey! I actually designed something!!! it's the small wins that really make your day.) I should probably make a blog, or coerce John to come by and make a small video on all this, pictures and videos really help to make all that "wall of text" a lot clearer!
I am new to DCC and I have been going back and forth with NCE and Digitrax. And I think I'm going to go more with NCE systems. This was a very good video. And it help me make a decision.
@@tsgmultimedia I went to an exhibition about a month ago, and a guy allowed me to operate his DCC switching layout for a while. He used ProCab and it felt really good.
Oh, and real railroads need something like that: a big red button in every locomotive and in every tower that will shut down the whole railroad. That would have prevented a lot of train wrecks in the past.
Both systems are similar to programming 16-bit FORTRAN on a 'flip-phone' or Blackberry; possible, but DON'T make any mistakes. Of the two, NCE is easier, if only because of the LCD Display. One or both systems are working on improving their setup access, if only because DCC IS the future of Model Railroading. I'm not familiar with JMRI or other PC-based software, but if not now, I suspect they, or future similar packages, will replace the arcane locomotive address setup system in use by Digitrax and NCE, yet leave both able to access all functions of ANY decoder so programmed.
i have not used dcc yet i have one loco an atlas #49870 gp -38 alaska#2003 it is lenz decoder equipped i had a layout at a former address and it was dc now that i'm settled and most likely not moving again i want to build new layout and do it in dcc this time and i'm just looking to get as much info as i can on dcc so thanks for doing this video
An update on my Digitrax throttles. I was informed I could not use the NCE throttle as it is not compatible with the Digitrax system on my clubs layout. I then bought a Digitrax Duplex 500 throttle as my 402 cord plug was damaged. Also I wanted the ability to use the clubs WIFI system. I could not get the 500 to operate off the WIFI, and when I tried running it off a battery, that did not work either. I had members much more experienced confirm that the 500 had issues. I was able to buy a used DT402 and it worked fine for about five months before it suddenly began behaving erratically. Engines would slow down, speed up, and stop without my touching the knobs. Digitrax recommends checking for a stuck button, I tried this and so far as I can see none were stuck. I went back to my Duplex 500 throttle and ran it off it's very short cord as it would only work if plugged in. This was annoying but at least it worked for a while, before it too began behaving erratic just as my 402 throttle did before. Again...no stuck buttons. I went back to my 402 and discovered that now if plugged in, it causes a short circuit indication on the club layout. I just wonder if Digitrax has had any problems with the money they received from me for these purchases. The DT 400 throttle I had years ago was very reliable. What has gone wrong? Now should I buy the new Digitrax throttle? I guess I don't have a choice since my 402 and 500 are non functioning completely. Can anyone recommend a throttle company that is Digitrax compatible? I am so frustrated with Digitrax customer service, that I don't want to buy anything from them anymore. They only seem to care that their product works at the factory and after that I am S.O.L!
I'm still doing my research on what to buy. To program a locomotive could I do it through my phone or do I need to go out and buy a computer? After the computer is bought will I need to buy anything else besides test track? So I know now that you just don't go out and buy a dcc locomotive and put it on the track and enter your formula into the controller and your off and running trains. It's been years since I ran any trains. The clubs around here don't excite me. More or less a race track. So that's why I'm still confused about DCC. So I need the book for DCC for dummies. From set up to spectacular! So at the most if this layout gets built, maybe four locomotives / Trackmobile will be running and maybe one set mu.ed together (locomotive / slug w/cab). No signal lights, no lit flashing cross bucks at the crossing, it's all going to be all industrial type switching. 8 x 8 x 16. 2 ft wide.
Not sure what you mean by that. If you were to replace all the components from a layout that has one already installed with the correct components for the other, it should work fine. If you mean running two simultaneously, then no. That doesn't work.
It's a very powerful tool. When I started learning about it I was a little surprised about how much different stuff it can do. We only scratch the surface on the MR101 episode but show enough to get anyone who's serious about this stuff interested (I hope!).
I am looking hard at taking the plunge into DCC and my problem is I am IT challenged, I know this is going to open a can of warms but what system is the most intuitive for beginners that are program challenged?
If you're unable to do the installations yourself, it might be worthwhile to purchase your equipment with DCC installed at the factory. If you are looking at converting equipment you already own, it's worth it to learn how to install DCC yourself. I have several videos on this channel that demonstrate the process from start to finish that you're welcome to look up. Look at this play list: ua-cam.com/play/PLnxQpj82XbtopCWVfQf8Q1oKkBIhr5oCS.html
@@tsgmultimedia I went with a Digitrax dsc 52 box and encoders for 3 locos under direction from my son who a IT guy and writes code in his spare time so tgebworkkd of DCC is now under way.
I feel that the NCE is easier for me to understand, I have put hours into my power cab, also My club is switching from MRC to NCE soon, since their Antiquated MRC Prodigy Wireless System is having so many issues with their layout.
This video is a comparison of throttles. There is much more to a dcc system than that. Off to find the promised in the comments below jmri video to see if that is more helpful
The intro to JMRI video is in production and should come out in July as the MR101 episode. As far as your comment about this being a comparison of throttles, yes. The throttles are your interface with a DCC system. If you can show me a video that points out some differences that really matter when it comes to the back end of these systems, I can show you a video that would be far too boring for 95% of the viewers. :)
I use MRC Elite Wireless on my layout, and a NCE Power Cab on my programming track. I really like the MRC controller better than the NCE controller, though the MRC system is proprietary which is somewhat limiting. The NCE system can be connected to a computer which makes it really powerful for programming. I've heard good things about Digitrax, but the controller looks like something cobbled together in someone's basement back in the 60s.
@@tsgmultimedia Excellent. Thank you. After asking a few questions about NCE in their group? It's much more simple than Digitrax in my opinion. I'm planning to build one this year . A good size not really sure what the room size will be. I'm going for NCE Power Cab Starter and a NCE SB5 Smart Booster for that Cab Controller. and I should be set. Of Course I may need EB1 Circuit Breaker for it too. I'm learning as I go along.
This has been a great video to watch and learn something from. I use NCE after looking into all the other out there at the time and glad I did. I wanted a system that I could setup quickly and get running, the Digitrax seem to be just a tad more brain numbing and NCE easier to learn. (That's just my take, other's may disagree). Thanks so much for presenting this video, I will stick with NCE, but it's nice that you would take the time to discuss this topic. David Muse (Washington Terminal Co. Model Railroad)
I chose the digitrax because a trainshow vendor repeatly bashed it in his dcc class. It was a challenge for me learn to use this so called "complicated" system. If you don't mind "thinking"and want a slight challenge, Go Digitrax, if you like its fuctionality, otherwise NCE is simpler and maybe you'll like its functionality. They both have 1980's designed throttles.
For sure. I purposely do not want to bash either one, as I have used both and find them to be very utilitarian. I agree that NCE seems a bit simpler to get the hang of, but like I said in the video, the nerdy part of me likes the functionality of the DT series controller.
New to DCC here. And I chose NCE. I thought about Digi, but wanted to start out with a handheld controller. I'm still learning the setting of the system..
I use digitrax because my club uses it my DB150 and DT400 work awesome and when i go to the club i just take my DT400 and plug it and my club is what got me to get dcc
I have NCE.. the other one looks too hard to use.. I guess i did the friend thing..my friend has it so any problems come up i just ask him..thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance
I avoided the antiquated, out-dated out-moded DCC and went with Railpro by Ring Engineering. It is wireless plus net and has a touch screen display like all modern devices. This means no CV’s to input, easy MUing and buttons Like “horn” instead of some number like “F7”! I am modeling a shelf layout so I wanted easy wiring. The Railpro allowed me to go battery power on dead rail.
The unfortunate problem with this video is there was no consist agenda of what is to be covered. This leads to some false conclusions. For example it is stated the Digitrax has small throttles and has easier access to high functions implying NCE does not have that capability. NCE in fact as more small throttles than Digitrax to choose from and the access to higher order function is just as easy. In fact it has the additional capability of showing what higher order functions are currently on or off on the LCD displays. Since none of that was shown, you do not have an Apple to Apples comparison. But as was stated in the beginning, this show was not intended to be a full coverage video but to inspire you to learn more. Excellent Idea because you will find a lot more that might change you mind that is not covered here depending on your priorities and goals for you DCC system.
I went with the Digitrax evolution express. I feel like the nce looks to outdated and if I were to buy it next year they would come out with a brand new one and I’d be pissed.
My question is where do I start? I have ran a few trains on DCC but I have never helped out someone either converting from DC to DCC or starting a brand new layout using DCC. I've seen the throttles as seen here, but what else would I need to purchase to get this going. Right now I'm looking at running maybe up to three units maximum on a end to end shelf layout measuring 8 x 8 x 16 and two feet out from the wall. It will be set up as an HO industrial layout, so I'm sure it will have its share of switches which I'm planning on to be thrown manually. The yard and industries will be lit up, and some interiors. I'll plan on using sound in all operating locomotives. I'll ask about track wiring at another time. I also would like to run it wireless. Thank you.
@@bradleyogden5688 grab the Digitrax evoxD. Plenty of enough power to run your trains and you can add to it. Digitrax also has WiFi modules you can add to your layout.
Don't forget that, if none of your friends are into model trains and if you are leaning toward one system, there are plenty of forums and websites to guide you along if in need of help to setup or troubleshoot.
A lot of good info, now I'll still wind up flipping a coin to decide which system to go with. Leaning toward NCE sinice we've seen it in operation at the Detroit Model Railroad Club layout.
Great video John. I got into dcc not too long ago and chose NCE. I have enjoyed it and have no regrets. I find the design and functions easier to operate than the digitrax.
I've just converted to DCC. My people recommended NCE for it's simplicity. I've started installing decoders in my Atlas models. My Rapido engines will be a special case!
Right? As long as you can do what you want to do, the system probably does not matter so much. I use my phone in most of the places I have run trains. The phone doesn't care which system it's connecting to using a WiFi interface. All I know is once I am connected the trains do what I ask them to do whether it's NCE or Digitrax.
I use both as I work with 2 different groups and each use different systems (not ideal) but I see the advantage to each, but my preference is NCE is much easier to use, and better to understand. Looking forward to your video on JMRI , THANKS FOR SHARING.... I want to add nce is much more friendly when it comes to warranty and help....
The basic difference between the two. Feature driven and Ergonomics. Digitrax controllers have no ergonomics to it. The layout of the throttle is 40 years old. During the 1970's high tech was having buttons instead of toggle switches. The throttle is in the same case used then as it is today. With NCE that throttle has a better feel and the layout of the buttons are more pleasing to the eye. With that say it is the feature or accessory selection that keeps Digitrax in the game. Digitrax has a broader range of devices that allows you to know where the the train is located on the track. Its supporting components that allows for signal light (the stop lights you see along the track.) You are able to control those light based on where the train is on the track. Because these devices are all created by Digitrax they are more so grantee to work. With NCE you have to create a hodgepodge of other companies components to do the same thing. As much as I hate the design of Digitrax throttles it is there supporting feature product line that out weights NCE. If you are looking to do advance automation quick and easy then go with Digitrax. If you are ok with basic train operation then NCE is better. Loo on you tube and you will see the larger automated layouts are using Digitrax.
To the contrary, the larger/automated layouts I've seen use NCE. Colorado Model Railroad Museum being the best-known large automated layout I've come across. Also, the La Mesa Model Railroad Club has one of, if not the largest layout on the west coast... Also uses NCE. The hardcore operators I know where I live all have a definite preference for NCE. I'm not saying this to plug NCE, but I am saying that your anecdotal case for Digitrax is easily rebutted with another person's anecdotal case for NCE. Without knowing the electronic infrastructure of each system, that's the best I have for you. I know people who do, and they insist NCE is far superior for reasons that go straight over my head. I don't have a strong preference for either, as all the layouts I've seen and/or operated on using either system worked fine. I tend to use my phone as a throttle, so the system behind the layout has made little to no difference to me. At home, I use my computer with WiThrottle, JMRI, and a sprog interface to program and test my models (I think people refer to this as DCC++). The system that's right for you is the one you like best - many choose to go with what their friends and acquaintances use so that they will have a built in support system when they need it. I'd add that most people will never push a system to its maximum limits, so it's probably safe to use this methodology when choosing for yourself.
@@tsgmultimedia Here's my point. If I were to build 2 layouts one using NCE's product and the other using DIgitrax. The Digitrax layout would be the better layout. The easier layout to build would be the NCE layout but the most dynamic layout would be the Digitrax layout. Transponding is the ability for the train to communicate and broadcast its location. Digitrax is one of a few that can do this. In order to get transponding to work properly you must build the layout within tighter wiring specs. Most people fail to do this hence the feature fails......who do they blame. Digitrax..... Just go to their web sites and look at what they are offering. You will see the difference. If Digitrax would do something with the ergonomics of the throttle we would not be having a discussion...by the way I build layouts hence the opinion.
@@InobuZ There isn't a "correct" answer as far as I can tell. Only preference. In any case, I appreciate the conversation and also I'm glad you chimed in!
@@tsgmultimedia Challenge anyone who gives you an opinion as it going to be based on facts, experience, observation or the need to talk. Its up to you to discern the different. Thanks, for the time.
Can two or more systems be used simultaneously on a single layout? In other words, if my system is NCE, can I use my equipment on the system of a friend who uses Digitrak?
I am confused. It looks like you are asking two different questions. I don't think you can run NCE and Digitrax simultaneously on the same layout, but if you normally use your DCC equipped locos on your own layout that has a different system than your friend's layout; then you take your equipment to your friend's house, it should work fine. DCC utilizes NMRA standards to make sure this is the case.
I like the NCE system. No one mentioned the "Yard" feature on the NCE where the center knob does speed & direction with one control. Makes yard ops real easy without looking at the controller. Of course the controller must be put into the "Yard" mode. I don't know about Digitrax. My old club had many seniors & they took to NCE quickly. We had a member, who was a Digitrax dealer. He quit because the membership liked the NCE system better. I like the NCE easy to see screen, over the Digitrax. As I'm getting older , this is becoming an important thing to me. I've created the "New York & Adirondack" railway so I can make the engine numbers large on the tenders & rear of diesels.
Thanks John for not fueling the fire with the age old debate!! 👍👍 I'm a NCE guy from day one. It may or may not be any better, but I absolutely enjoy using it, and found it intuitive from the day I hooked up my first PowerCab. Your mileage may vary.
AS a "newbie" to N-scale DCC, it was suggested that I start with a NCE Power Cab basic starter system. I did, but I really didn't know of all it's features. This video is excellent. Merf explained things that even a non-techie like me can understand. I enjoyed & really appreciated his help!
When I converted to DCC, my hobby shop also recommended the NCE Power Cab starter system, so I bought one. I asked about Digitrax, but he didn't carry it. After using it, I didn't like it all that much. I wanted more control, but despite what people say, the single-throttle Power Cab doesn't play well with the multi-throttle Pro Cab system. I also wanted an actual knob to control speed, but the Digitrax system looks like it was made by a kid in his bedroom. I bought a "new old stock" MRC Prodigy Elite Wireless system from eBay and I love it!
I wish the NCE manual had the straightforward information that this video taught me.
As a guy who is just getting started using dcc for the first time (coming from Lionel trains) I really appreciate this video. You did an awesome job putting the details and facts out, did a great job showing me what these systems really look like.
As a fellow NCE user and DCC tutor, I would never recommend adding zeros (“0”) to the front of an address. This confuses systems as they can’t read the numbers but know there’s a figure there. In other words these digits are invisible to the system. If you have a loco that has less than 4 digits, you can still enter it into the system without the preceding zeros. For example #945 can simply be entered as 945. Alternatively if you don’t feel comfortable with that, you can always switch to single digit addresses or add the zeros at the end. For example #945 could be entered as 9450. I hope that this is not too confusing and happy to answer any questions you may have on this subject. 😊
THANK YOU...for sharing. DCC is wonderful no matter what system you use it is a lot better than the old dc with toggles,
Dc is so much quicker n easier to wire and a lot cheaper DCC has a lot of problems DCC is a upgrade of DC your switches are still AC
This episode opened my brain enough to understand most of what was presented but I was hoping for more beginner equipment to be featured. Specifically I am considering the NCE PowerCab and the Digitrax Zephyr Extra and I’m hoping to build a few dioramas with locomotives with DCC sound and lighting, hopefully followed by a layout as soon as I figure out how to find space in my home.
So a starter level control is my first decision. What I learned was that the NCE unit seems more logically designed and is intuitive enough so a beginner could start more easily, take for instance building a consist. I understood each NCE step. Very logical. The Digitrax unit lacked a logical design in that an experienced user had to explain how to do it because the unit did not provide basic feedback and unit labeling provided no hint at what to do next. Is the Digitrax Zephyr Extra as counter intuitive as the unit shown in your video? Any thoughts?
FYI, I currently do not belong to any club or know anyone in one to ask my dumb questions. Thanks for all your videos, they help a lot.
Not mentioned in the video about NCE, like Digitrax you can do the higher level functions such as the operation of accessories, run or program macros, make used of functions 11-29, and run multiple trains on a single throttle. Also it is important to note with either system, delete consists before moving engines to another layout or you will have all kinds of problems.
Can someone tell me if the "D", "E" and "F" keys on a Digitrax D602D throttle can be programed to select the whistle, Bell and light functions?
Much appreciated video. I bought NCE about 10 years ago, never got into other than initial programing a loco or too, then had to pack up and move. Recently unpacked and bought N scale locomotive with sound...was disappointed in the sound, started doubting DCC, with out sound, DCC seemed to be nothing more than a glorified light switch. This video showed me there is more, the Consist and the app for SW to further program open my eyes to more possibilities. Thank you.
I agree with Paul Kirkman--I made the same choice recently as my first foray into DCC. I must admit technology wise I was impressed with the ESU ECoS, but at this point was cost prohibitive. During my research I found the NCE display much easier to work with. Nice going John--keep em coming. Looking for a new model series............
Any chance Rich is willing to provide schematic and material list for his PowerCab/Program Track tool box? Nice setup complete with electrical outlets at top and inside. Much appreciated.
Thanks John for a nice even handed critique, I went for Digitrax though I too can see that NCE is also a excellent System.
Great video John, Rich's converted tool box is genius, but you had me at ESU in one of your prior videos. The conversation was quite informative, good choice of individuals, they were very comfortable discussing their area with no overzealous opinions.
Yes, I did not want the information to become a bashing of the other system. The fact is that probably almost any DCC system can be set up and provide tons of enjoyment. I have seen it debated and argued about ad nauseam and think it's a lot like the "Who's the best guitarist in the world" or "Who's the best drummer in the world" arguments. You can have your favorite, but that doesn't make it the best. Use what you like and be happy. :D
Thanks so much for posting this as it answers so many questions concerning the two main choices. I know there are many more options out there but the main interest I have found is between theses two. Your points are right on and it was great to get input from two different operators. Our club uses digitrax ( tethered) throttles at the moment but a few of our members have NCE for their home layouts as well. We also use both on our programming tracks so get the best of both worlds! Keep up the great videos...they help lots of us out here😎🇦🇺
You're welcome! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment as well!
Now the Digitrax uses Loconet but what is the system on the NCE throttle ?
Thanks
Pardon me John. But I was wondering about something. At 15:19 I saw a tool Box that looked like it was converted into a programming stage of sorts. I was wondering what it's called and how does it work cause I'm interested in building one.
Check this out for more information on Murf's programming box: ua-cam.com/video/UGZ6EsE-SKs/v-deo.html
Thank you very much
i got my first dcc steam engine and i got a N.C.E. to go with it an i dont know how to use it
the NCE comes with everything but the contention wires for the track like why
The instruction that u explain, are they noted on the manual?
This is a video I have been waiting for a long time for someone to make. I have the nce but almost got the digi Trax system. I like way you compared both system not really favoring one over the other. Our has in the future you could do a little more in depth video on both systems. Great video ,keep um comin.
Fabulous and informative, I've ordered an nce power gab . Many thanks
did you have to manually connect the 3 locos in the consist or were they connected by the controller?
Both.
Good presentation of these 2 options. I've noticed that several people have the NCE Power Cab at their workbench for programing and testing even though they may have another system to run the layout. These are the 2 American control systems, however, there are new options from Europe now becoming available in the US, i.e., ESU and Z21.The Roco Z21 and the Digikeijs DR5000 have wi-fi built in and offer compatibility with other systems. I've seen Digitrax,, ESU, and Roco controllers as well as wireless phones and tablets all attached simultaneously to these controllers. And it is asserted the new Proto Throttle is also compatibile. Plus you can connect with JMRI. That's real flexibility.
Lots of options continue to come down the pipeline. I chose these two because they seem to be the topic for weekly "debates" on FaceBook groups. Did I say debates? I meant arguments! :))
Thank You John for the great video information. Spending gobs of money without a clear choice through this kind of experience tends to stop most of us in our tracks and delay of purchase is lost time in the fun zone. I delayed buying my NCE system until I was well into years of near zero information. I only came across a few videos that offered scant information and mostly un-boxings. My first DCC system was a BACHMAN and only because I was not sure about selecting DCC over DC and I was not about to invest in the change over without some kind of hands on try out. The BACHMAN worked very well but was limited on features because it was their first foray into the market. Their warranty dept.,parts dept and general help were always fast,friendly and 1st. rate so anyone that wants to try at the beginners level should be confident in that choice too. The NCE POWER CAB has been like driving a New car but the adjustment is easier than I expected. Now that I know the differences I'm extremely happy with DCC and my choice of it. Best Regards to all of you that contributed to this excellent video production. Joe W.
Hey Joe it's great to see your post. I had wondered if you were still around and inventing more cool train products!
Ditto I did the same thing, started out with Bachmann EZ Command and even purchased the 5 Amp booster, my layout is two levels with a subway system on the bottom and it's 11' X 25', been using it for the past 12 years along with exploring the fabulous world of CV's using JMRI Decoder Pro and Digitrax sound decoder programmer for downloading custom sounds for my Digitrax decoders that are downloadable...just recently purchased NCE Powercab and love it...probably give my Bachmann system to one of my grandyoungin's and expand my system with NCE and Pro Cab, did much research during these past 12 years even with Bachmann's Dynamis system, didn't really care for the reviews that I read about that system, even on the Ask the Bachmann site, NCE had the least problems that I found if any...just my choice also drive Ford vehicles, but I like Chevy too, but Ford has been my priority....same thing Digitrax vs NCE...
I was beginning to think that 9 spikes out of 10 was the only rating. Now I know differently. Thanks for the good work.
Thanks John, and very timely for me. I have been questioning my loyalty to Digitraxx and have looked at NCE. Still not sure, but I have a fair investment in Digitraxx accessories. I'm not real bright at the electronics side of the hobby and I appreciate Digitraxx LocoNet plug-and-play system to add accessories. Your video (and your fine field reporters) have given me a lot to consider! Thank you very much.
I have been under the impression that either system works fine under most conditions that do not push it to its limits, but I can tell you that most of the the "hard core" operators I've come in contact with prefer NCE.
Very informative. I have just started in OO /HO after 25 years out in the garden RR . I am constructing a switching layout to pass the dreary winter days in Canada. This tips the scale to NCE simple comfortable and not complicated as much . Given Ring Engineering and Revolution in G scale why hasn"t OO/HO evolved to radio control direct to the engine or device and constant track power. Much simpler .
Also you can program the option button to be able to access the functions 10-10 and 20-28 with the push of the option button.
Can any dcc locomotive pair to any nce or digitrax?
Imo a clear and useful look at the systems reviewed. Nicely done!
We use Digitrax and I think we probably chose it because the Santa Clara train club was using it. Never tried the other one so I can't really compare the two.
The upgraded Digitrax system has an opportunity to improve however, btw: Steal Zap should have an option to disable it entirely. I'm sure it's useful for some, but for us it just gets in the way.
Thanks!
Jen
Thanks for the compliment and for watching. After reading all the responses from the modelers I contacted, it was easy to see that the "best" depends on your needs and preferences.
I am currently building an O scale 2 rail loop layout 34foot long 3-6 feet wide. 6 feet wide at the ends where loops are total of 6 turnouts. 2 locos Atlas gp60 and one gp38-2. Can you recommend a NCE system? Will a 5 amp work or should I go 10amp?
Great video. My first DCC system has been NCE PowerCab. I am still using it. I bought a 10 amp toggle switch and use it for my MRC Master20 DC system. I also bought a smaller switch to turn off the NCE (including the entire layout) when there is a short or other problems. The only issue with both DCC systems is that none have an off/on switch component unless you unplug it from the wall. I have the option of operating locomotives that have decoders or are analog. So far the NCE works for me.
Dual power is the what I used ! Have a lot,lot of DC locomotive 🚂 and alot of dcc/sound 🚂 ( I would be in the tens of thousands of $ ) if changes all!!
So on the nce procab dcc controller. Which website do I go to in order to use my computer to get the sounds for my locomotives to fix up the decoders
Sorry I'd love to help but have no idea what you're asking. Maybe try a google search?
@@tsgmultimedia how the person who did the powercab review managed to get his original controller on a test track to get the correct sounds on his computer to match the decoder for his engine
@@Ryder372 Check out this one: ua-cam.com/video/xYZ9TMrMnqk/v-deo.html
so as someone from EU dont get it...whats the difference between all of them? from what i seen its just the same thing
I have both digitrax and MRC starter set,s they both work good for my small layout.But i think digitrax has more expandable to enlarge your layout. If and when you have the room.
Got yer answer. I haven't built a layout (ever), but was considering it for my grandson, but my son said his son would not be interested. While talking to him, it seems that my son is right. Thanks for your timely
reply.
npk
Had you thought about building one for yourself? :)
Build it. His precipitation could be a wonderful surprise. Besides it's much better than TV.
Problem: Have two F7 A units both programmed to 42 (two digit) and I want to run one unit in reverse mode. I used my Broadway Ltd 'programmer' to set the loco to run in reverse. It will not work, so what are the CV's I need to change to get this to work? What am I doing wrong. Please respond.
Sounds like your problem is trying to run two locomotives with the same number. Change one to 43 or 41. If that doesn't work, call BLI.
Pretty sure you can't have 2 41's.
If I understand this: If I put a NCE module in my engine, that engine then will not run on a Digitrax system? So, if I travel to a club with Digitrax I can't use my engine on their layout? Is there any system that would allow me to run an engine on both systems without taking the engine apart and changing the module?
I think you misunderstood something. Decoders in models work with any system, thanks to NMRA standards.
It's the brand-specific throttles and power/control components that won't necessarily work with DCC systems from other brands.
Very useful and well explained use of both systems.Have only used Digitrax Easy DCC and Lenz. One thing not talked about the throttles. Only the 400 or 500 throttles can MU locomotives, then dispatch or steal to the UT throttles. Some people will not let throttles that can program used at op session.
That's Funny!! You have to pass the exam, or work your way up to a programmable throttle!! So , so foamer like!!
Hey, Murf. I have both the 5 amp ProCab radio and the PowerCab. To use JMRI with the ProCab with my MacBook, I had to buy a serial port connector for my base station that goes to USB. I haven't used the PowerCab yet. Is there now a better way without the serial port connector if I use the PowerCab? I wasn't clear on that part. Thanks.
Murf's box thing is pretty damn cool isn't it? I'll see if I can persuade him to make an appearance here to answer your question. :D
For the Power Cab system you get the "USB Interface for Power Cab" - www.ncedcc.com/online-store/USB-Interface-for-Power-Cab-p38322160 You'll need a USB cable like you'd connect to a printer (something like www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-USB-2-0-Cable-Male/dp/B00NH11KIK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1521960143&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+printer+cable ) The NCE site has a link to the driver you'd need to install for a Mac.
Yes! A "how-to" video on the box and certainly a video on explaining the mystery that is JMRI. I bought the serial connector, but haven't yet had the courage to try to figure out JMRI.
Hey John! Don't quote me on this, but I believe Rail-pro now has a Hybrid Loco decoder that runs on their radio system and DCC. I believe it is the LM-3S. I just purchased 5 of them at about $83 each. Their previous LM-2S was radio only. I brought this up because I heard you mention Rail-pro briefly in this video. I hope this helps, Russ.
That sounds neat. Let us know how good it is when you get it!
Great comparison video! Nice work, John! However, I completely disagree about the battery voltage ("if it drops below 9 volts you need to change it"). Nonsense. We have two DT402Ds, two DT500Ds and one UT4D on a 1300 square foot, two-level layout. We don't change batteries until they hit about 7.5 volts, and even then they still work fine, but the voltage drops rapidly when you get that low. We've operated for hours with all throttle batteries in the 8 volts or less neighborhood with absolutely no problem, and we have only ONE UR92, centrally located up high.
Hi, in minute 15 you talk about NCE consist, but How I speed mach loco? thanks
This month's (September 2018) MR 101 includes a segment about speed matching.
Hey thank you for this, I have been asking for help with this. The one thing that I have learned is to use what your club uses.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching, and tell your friends to watch too. :)
Thanks for the good INFO. I found it very helpful also intuitive. As a novice, think of taking up the moddle railway hobby. I am impressed With the DCC system in N scale and trying to find the best starter pack. To expand from. I don't have a lot of room to play with
Chances are that you can use either one of these brands' starter systems without a problem. It would be best to find someone who has each one and try it out. If you have many friends who have one or the other, pick the one they have so you can get help if you need it.
I strongly believe that it would be a good idea for anyone contemplating adding DCC to their layout to read a few books or articles on the subject in order to learn terminology and the basics.
This is a great idea.
@@tsgmultimedia Thanks, John! I am planning a little 4-ft. X 10-ft. N-scale layout, based on the Androscoggin Central plan and layout which is featured in Marty McGuirk's book, N-Scale Model Railroading: Getting Started in the Hobby. From what I hear and have read myself, I am leaning toward the NCE system which I think will work better for a small layout such as the one that I am contemplating. Great overview of these systems. Now, I will go and read Kalmbach's DCC book and get a leg up on all of this.
@@dennisnicholson952 Cool! Let us know how it goes!
Before moving to the US from Europe I had a Roco DCC model. With their DCC Multimaus I could control turnouts, not only locos. I cannot see if Digitrax or NCE do this?
Yes you can control turnouts too with digitrax.
Has the NCE system changed since this video was made?
Have they added any of the advanced functions like operating switches or similar layout features?
Or is it basically just a locomotive controller?
Your video is very helpful. Thank you.
I wonder if it matters which 9v rechargeable batteries he meant for us to purchase on Amazon though? Or does it matter? Also, my Digitrax DCS51 says to consist choose a TOP address. Could I choose my TOP address as the same as the first loco in my consist that has sound? otherwise, you have to switch to the TOP address to control speed and direction then back to the lead loco for blowing the horn, lights, etc. Thanks John. Cheers, Dan
I was not clear about the Amazon batteries either, to be honest. If you pause the video I think you can see the name printed on the battery.
Great video, as always. I have used both the Digitrax system and the NCE, The club I joined uses NCE, so that was a determining factor on which system for me to buy. Both systems have good and poor points, and I think that you cant go wrong with either one. I do like the box that Murf made. Does he have information on what he has inside of it, or maybe a wiring diagram or some detailed pictures that he would share.
I will ask Murf to pop in here when he has time to answer some questions. That box is totally cool. I might even consider getting one of those power cab things just so I could build a box like that.
I'd made a version previously in a box that was quite a bit smaller. I went a little "deluxe" for this one. I put in a computer power-supply style AC line in to provide power to everything. There are electrical boxes protecting wiring from that input to an outlet on the top panel and an internal outlet where I plug in the power cab "wall wart". The top outlets include built-in USB power outlets for recharging phones etc. Other than that I used a Power Cab with the Power Cab USB Interface to connect my computer. I extended the USB out to a panel style jack to make it easy to plug a USB connector to my Mac. My "programming track" is PC-ties with rails soldered on. You could obviously just use a piece of flex track or something. I did the PC ties so that at some point I'll "dual gauge" the track to be able to program N scale engines. I made another DCC track output to a panel mounted set of Anderson Power Pole connectors. I keep various cords in the well of that tool box with the matching power pole configuration to connect small layouts, probes to power accessory or decoders (out of the engine) etc. To have a convenient way to mount the USB connector and Power Pole DCC bus interface I made a small panel with my 3d printer. (Hey! I actually designed something!!! it's the small wins that really make your day.) I should probably make a blog, or coerce John to come by and make a small video on all this, pictures and videos really help to make all that "wall of text" a lot clearer!
Very helpful, thank you! Anyway Rich would like to share how he built his programming setup?
Look for the MR101 episode about NCE and JMRI :)
I am new to DCC and I have been going back and forth with NCE and Digitrax. And I think I'm going to go more with NCE systems. This was a very good video. And it help me make a decision.
I'm considering gettin the ProCab for my first DCC layout
I've heard nothing but good things about it!
@@tsgmultimedia I went to an exhibition about a month ago, and a guy allowed me to operate his DCC switching layout for a while. He used ProCab and it felt really good.
It's like "Coke or Pepsi" isn't it?
Unfortunately, ProCab never had a navy. Unlike Pepsi.
Oh, and real railroads need something like that: a big red button in every locomotive and in every tower that will shut down the whole railroad. That would have prevented a lot of train wrecks in the past.
Both systems are similar to programming 16-bit FORTRAN on a 'flip-phone' or Blackberry; possible, but DON'T make any mistakes. Of the two, NCE is easier, if only because of the LCD Display.
One or both systems are working on improving their setup access, if only because DCC IS the future of Model Railroading. I'm not familiar with JMRI or other PC-based software, but if not now, I suspect they, or future similar packages, will replace the arcane locomotive address setup system in use by Digitrax and NCE, yet leave both able to access all functions of ANY decoder so programmed.
i have not used dcc yet i have one loco an atlas #49870 gp -38 alaska#2003 it is lenz decoder equipped i had a layout at a former address and it was dc now that i'm settled and most likely not moving again i want to build new layout and do it in dcc this time and i'm just looking to get as much info as i can on dcc so thanks for doing this video
You're welcome! I hope you will share it with your friends :)
An update on my Digitrax throttles. I was informed I could not use the NCE throttle as it is not compatible with the Digitrax system on my clubs layout. I then bought a Digitrax Duplex 500 throttle as my 402 cord plug was damaged. Also I wanted the ability to use the clubs WIFI system. I could not get the 500 to operate off the WIFI, and when I tried running it off a battery, that did not work either. I had members much more experienced confirm that the 500 had issues. I was able to buy a used DT402 and it worked fine for about five months before it suddenly began behaving erratically. Engines would slow down, speed up, and stop without my touching the knobs. Digitrax recommends checking for a stuck button, I tried this and so far as I can see none were stuck. I went back to my Duplex 500 throttle and ran it off it's very short cord as it would only work if plugged in. This was annoying but at least it worked for a while, before it too began behaving erratic just as my 402 throttle did before. Again...no stuck buttons. I went back to my 402 and discovered that now if plugged in, it causes a short circuit indication on the club layout.
I just wonder if Digitrax has had any problems with the money they received from me for these purchases. The DT 400 throttle I had years ago was very reliable. What has gone wrong? Now should I buy the new Digitrax throttle? I guess I don't have a choice since my 402 and 500 are non functioning completely.
Can anyone recommend a throttle company that is Digitrax compatible? I am so frustrated with Digitrax customer service, that I don't want to buy anything from them anymore. They only seem to care that their product works at the factory and after that I am S.O.L!
I'm still doing my research on what to buy. To program a locomotive could I do it through my phone or do I need to go out and buy a computer? After the computer is bought will I need to buy anything else besides test track? So I know now that you just don't go out and buy a dcc locomotive and put it on the track and enter your formula into the controller and your off and running trains. It's been years since I ran any trains. The clubs around here don't excite me. More or less a race track. So that's why I'm still confused about DCC. So I need the book for DCC for dummies. From set up to spectacular! So at the most if this layout gets built, maybe four locomotives / Trackmobile will be running and maybe one set mu.ed together (locomotive / slug w/cab). No signal lights, no lit flashing cross bucks at the crossing, it's all going to be all industrial type switching. 8 x 8 x 16. 2 ft wide.
Yes, to do the programming through JMRI you need a device that can run Java. Java is the "J" in JMRI.
Can you cover model trains and inclined surfaces?
Nice Model 101 Video John, I learned a lot from this video
Thanks SGT! As usual, your comments and support are greatly appreciated!
Are NCE & Digitrax systems compatible for use on the same layout?
Thank you
npk
Not sure what you mean by that. If you were to replace all the components from a layout that has one already installed with the correct components for the other, it should work fine. If you mean running two simultaneously, then no. That doesn't work.
How long before we'll see that JMRI tutorial you mentioned might be a possibility?
How does July 28th at 9am sound? :)
How funny. I just was watching the weekly podcast where you answered my question. Really looking forward to learning about JMRI.
It's a very powerful tool. When I started learning about it I was a little surprised about how much different stuff it can do. We only scratch the surface on the MR101 episode but show enough to get anyone who's serious about this stuff interested (I hope!).
Do you prefer HO or N ? Male or Female connections ?
Great information...thanks
I am looking hard at taking the plunge into DCC and my problem is I am IT challenged, I know this is going to open a can of warms but what system is the most intuitive for beginners that are program challenged?
If you're unable to do the installations yourself, it might be worthwhile to purchase your equipment with DCC installed at the factory. If you are looking at converting equipment you already own, it's worth it to learn how to install DCC yourself. I have several videos on this channel that demonstrate the process from start to finish that you're welcome to look up. Look at this play list: ua-cam.com/play/PLnxQpj82XbtopCWVfQf8Q1oKkBIhr5oCS.html
@@tsgmultimedia I went with a Digitrax dsc 52 box and encoders for 3 locos under direction from my son who a IT guy and writes code in his spare time so tgebworkkd of DCC is now under way.
@@robertgrant6837 Excellent!
@@tsgmultimedia I should learn to read my reply's before posting.
I feel that the NCE is easier for me to understand, I have put hours into my power cab, also My club is switching from MRC to NCE soon, since their Antiquated MRC Prodigy Wireless System is having so many issues with their layout.
Yeah new video!!!!
This video is a comparison of throttles. There is much more to a dcc system than that. Off to find the promised in the comments below jmri video to see if that is more helpful
The intro to JMRI video is in production and should come out in July as the MR101 episode. As far as your comment about this being a comparison of throttles, yes. The throttles are your interface with a DCC system. If you can show me a video that points out some differences that really matter when it comes to the back end of these systems, I can show you a video that would be far too boring for 95% of the viewers. :)
Thanks for the prompt response. You make a good point about the back end video being boring.
Lol heck yah man much needed info . . . Thanks man
NCE or Digitrax? what is best? witch ever your comfortable with
I use MRC Elite Wireless on my layout, and a NCE Power Cab on my programming track. I really like the MRC controller better than the NCE controller, though the MRC system is proprietary which is somewhat limiting. The NCE system can be connected to a computer which makes it really powerful for programming. I've heard good things about Digitrax, but the controller looks like something cobbled together in someone's basement back in the 60s.
why is Dan missing in action??? not a problem just wondering.
He moved on.
Phillip wyman As far as I can gather he left TSG.
thanks for the info
thanks for the info
He decided he has other priorities.
I have a quick question. Can NCE throttle work with Digitrax Decoders?
Any NMRA standard compliant decoder installed properly into a device should interface fine with any NMRA standard compliant DCC system.
@@tsgmultimedia Excellent. Thank you. After asking a few questions about NCE in their group? It's much more simple than Digitrax in my opinion. I'm planning to build one this year . A good size not really sure what the room size will be. I'm going for NCE Power Cab Starter and a NCE SB5 Smart Booster for that Cab Controller. and I should be set. Of Course I may need EB1 Circuit Breaker for it too. I'm learning as I go along.
Nice video John.
This is the best tutorial I have seen on NCE. I wish there were even more.
If I can persuade the right people to go on camera, there will be more. :)
This has been a great video to watch and learn something from. I use NCE after looking into all the other out there at the time and glad I did. I wanted a system that I could setup quickly and get running, the Digitrax seem to be just a tad more brain numbing and NCE easier to learn. (That's just my take, other's may disagree). Thanks so much for presenting this video, I will stick with NCE, but it's nice that you would take the time to discuss this topic.
David Muse (Washington Terminal Co. Model Railroad)
I chose the digitrax because a trainshow vendor repeatly bashed it in his dcc class. It was a challenge for me learn to use this so called "complicated" system. If you don't mind "thinking"and want a slight challenge, Go Digitrax, if you like its fuctionality, otherwise NCE is simpler and maybe you'll like its functionality. They both have 1980's designed throttles.
For sure. I purposely do not want to bash either one, as I have used both and find them to be very utilitarian. I agree that NCE seems a bit simpler to get the hang of, but like I said in the video, the nerdy part of me likes the functionality of the DT series controller.
That was useful. Thanks!
one thing that you need to do is have air forced across your DVR or it may get to hot to run.
New to DCC here. And I chose NCE. I thought about Digi, but wanted to start out with a handheld controller. I'm still learning the setting of the system..
No mention of programing on digatrax seems nice is easy to program for newbies
I use digitrax because my club uses it my DB150 and DT400 work awesome and when i go to the club i just take my DT400 and plug it and my club is what got me to get dcc
I have NCE.. the other one looks too hard to use.. I guess i did the friend thing..my friend has it so any problems come up i just ask him..thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance
I avoided the antiquated, out-dated out-moded DCC and went with Railpro by Ring Engineering. It is wireless plus net and has a touch screen display like all modern devices. This means no CV’s to input, easy MUing and buttons Like “horn” instead of some number like “F7”! I am modeling a shelf layout so I wanted easy wiring. The Railpro allowed me to go battery power on dead rail.
The Columbia Gorge model railroad club (the one I belong to) uses nce pro cab and I have grown to love it.
The unfortunate problem with this video is there was no consist agenda of what is to be covered. This leads to some false conclusions. For example it is stated the Digitrax has small throttles and has easier access to high functions implying NCE does not have that capability. NCE in fact as more small throttles than Digitrax to choose from and the access to higher order function is just as easy. In fact it has the additional capability of showing what higher order functions are currently on or off on the LCD displays. Since none of that was shown, you do not have an Apple to Apples comparison. But as was stated in the beginning, this show was not intended to be a full coverage video but to inspire you to learn more. Excellent Idea because you will find a lot more that might change you mind that is not covered here depending on your priorities and goals for you DCC system.
I would love to see a future show on JMRI!
Working on that!
Well quit screwing around and get to it *LOL* kidding.. love the series!
Working on that too! :))
I went with the Digitrax evolution express. I feel like the nce looks to outdated and if I were to buy it next year they would come out with a brand new one and I’d be pissed.
My question is where do I start? I have ran a few trains on DCC but I have never helped out someone either converting from DC to DCC or starting a brand new layout using DCC. I've seen the throttles as seen here, but what else would I need to purchase to get this going. Right now I'm looking at running maybe up to three units maximum on a end to end shelf layout measuring 8 x 8 x 16 and two feet out from the wall. It will be set up as an HO industrial layout, so I'm sure it will have its share of switches which I'm planning on to be thrown manually. The yard and industries will be lit up, and some interiors. I'll plan on using sound in all operating locomotives.
I'll ask about track wiring at another time. I also would like to run it wireless. Thank you.
@@bradleyogden5688 grab the Digitrax evoxD. Plenty of enough power to run your trains and you can add to it. Digitrax also has WiFi modules you can add to your layout.
Don't forget that, if none of your friends are into model trains and if you are leaning toward one system, there are plenty of forums and websites to guide you along if in need of help to setup or troubleshoot.
Excellent point!
I think you could let folks know that you can run DC equipment on Digitrax. I believe it runs on 00 (zero-zero).
First there was The Rumble in the Jungle, now there is NCE vs Dixitrax
A lot of good info, now I'll still wind up flipping a coin to decide which system to go with. Leaning toward NCE sinice we've seen it in operation at the Detroit Model Railroad Club layout.
Great video John. I got into dcc not too long ago and chose NCE. I have enjoyed it and have no regrets. I find the design and functions easier to operate than the digitrax.
I am seriously considering getting a power cab and a zephyr so I can have both on hand to program and test my stuff.
I've just converted to DCC. My people recommended NCE for it's simplicity. I've started installing decoders in my Atlas models. My Rapido engines will be a special case!
Funny....Ive never had a problem operating a Digitrax Control down in the 7 volt area.
Well done. 100's of ways to approach that. What do I run, - DCC ! :)
Right? As long as you can do what you want to do, the system probably does not matter so much. I use my phone in most of the places I have run trains. The phone doesn't care which system it's connecting to using a WiFi interface. All I know is once I am connected the trains do what I ask them to do whether it's NCE or Digitrax.
I use both as I work with 2 different groups and each use different systems (not ideal) but I see the advantage to each, but my preference is NCE is much easier to use, and better to understand. Looking forward to your video on JMRI , THANKS FOR SHARING....
I want to add nce is much more friendly when it comes to warranty and help....
The basic difference between the two. Feature driven and Ergonomics.
Digitrax controllers have no ergonomics to it. The layout of the throttle is 40 years old. During the 1970's high tech was having buttons instead of toggle switches. The throttle is in the same case used then as it is today. With NCE that throttle has a better feel and the layout of the buttons are more pleasing to the eye.
With that say it is the feature or accessory selection that keeps Digitrax in the game. Digitrax has a broader range of devices that allows you to know where the the train is located on the track. Its supporting components that allows for signal light (the stop lights you see along the track.) You are able to control those light based on where the train is on the track. Because these devices are all created by Digitrax they are more so grantee to work. With NCE you have to create a hodgepodge of other companies components to do the same thing.
As much as I hate the design of Digitrax throttles it is there supporting feature product line that out weights NCE.
If you are looking to do advance automation quick and easy then go with Digitrax. If you are ok with basic train operation then NCE is better.
Loo on you tube and you will see the larger automated layouts are using Digitrax.
To the contrary, the larger/automated layouts I've seen use NCE. Colorado Model Railroad Museum being the best-known large automated layout I've come across. Also, the La Mesa Model Railroad Club has one of, if not the largest layout on the west coast... Also uses NCE. The hardcore operators I know where I live all have a definite preference for NCE. I'm not saying this to plug NCE, but I am saying that your anecdotal case for Digitrax is easily rebutted with another person's anecdotal case for NCE.
Without knowing the electronic infrastructure of each system, that's the best I have for you. I know people who do, and they insist NCE is far superior for reasons that go straight over my head.
I don't have a strong preference for either, as all the layouts I've seen and/or operated on using either system worked fine. I tend to use my phone as a throttle, so the system behind the layout has made little to no difference to me. At home, I use my computer with WiThrottle, JMRI, and a sprog interface to program and test my models (I think people refer to this as DCC++).
The system that's right for you is the one you like best - many choose to go with what their friends and acquaintances use so that they will have a built in support system when they need it. I'd add that most people will never push a system to its maximum limits, so it's probably safe to use this methodology when choosing for yourself.
@@tsgmultimedia Here's my point. If I were to build 2 layouts one using NCE's product and the other using DIgitrax. The Digitrax layout would be the better layout. The easier layout to build would be the NCE layout but the most dynamic layout would be the Digitrax layout.
Transponding is the ability for the train to communicate and broadcast its location. Digitrax is one of a few that can do this. In order to get transponding to work properly
you must build the layout within tighter wiring specs. Most people fail to do this hence the feature fails......who do they blame. Digitrax.....
Just go to their web sites and look at what they are offering. You will see the difference.
If Digitrax would do something with the ergonomics of the throttle we would not be having a discussion...by the way I build layouts hence the opinion.
@@InobuZ There isn't a "correct" answer as far as I can tell. Only preference. In any case, I appreciate the conversation and also I'm glad you chimed in!
@@tsgmultimedia Challenge anyone who gives you an opinion as it going to be based on facts, experience, observation or the need to talk. Its up to you
to discern the different. Thanks, for the time.
Can two or more systems be used simultaneously on a single layout?
In other words, if my system is NCE, can I use my equipment on the system of a friend who uses Digitrak?
I am confused. It looks like you are asking two different questions.
I don't think you can run NCE and Digitrax simultaneously on the same layout, but if you normally use your DCC equipped locos on your own layout that has a different system than your friend's layout; then you take your equipment to your friend's house, it should work fine. DCC utilizes NMRA standards to make sure this is the case.
I like the NCE system. No one mentioned the "Yard" feature on the NCE where the center knob does speed & direction with one control. Makes yard ops real easy without looking at the controller. Of course the controller must be put into the "Yard" mode. I don't know about Digitrax. My old club had many seniors & they took to NCE quickly. We had a member, who was a Digitrax dealer. He quit because the membership liked the NCE system better.
I like the NCE easy to see screen, over the Digitrax. As I'm getting older , this is becoming an important thing to me. I've created the "New York & Adirondack" railway so I can make the engine numbers large on the tenders & rear of diesels.
I have no say for other people but in my point of it I like dictrax
Thanks John for not fueling the fire with the age old debate!! 👍👍
I'm a NCE guy from day one. It may or may not be any better, but I absolutely enjoy using it, and found it intuitive from the day I hooked up my first PowerCab. Your mileage may vary.