I am from Iraq and enjoyed this lecture especially finding out that the so-called Sumerian Queen is actually Akkadian in origin. And Assyrian Kings learned to read and write Sumerian
There's a wiki article for 'Decipherment of cuneiform'. An excerpt: Actual decipherment did not take place until the beginning of the 19th century, initiated by Georg Friedrich Grotefend in his study of Old Persian cuneiform. He was followed by Antoine-Jean Saint-Martin in 1822 and Rasmus Christian Rask in 1823, who was the first to decipher the name Achaemenides and the consonants m and n. Eugène Burnouf identified the names of various satrapies and the consonants k and z in 1833-1835. Christian Lassen contributed significantly to the grammatical understanding of the Old Persian language and the use of vowels. The decipherers used the short trilingual inscriptions from Persepolis and the inscriptions from Ganjnāme for their work. In a final step, the decipherment of the trilingual Behistun inscription was completed by Henry Rawlinson and Edward Hincks. Edward Hincks discovered that Old Persian is partly a syllabary.
1:04:50...As I understand recovering Flood story through present form of Tamil is that the poet had written to pass the intelligence to protect from floods ( not just one) and to use the floods for cultivation... I also recommend that reading Sumerian literature would help us to get better details than rejecting my thesis or postulate as Early Sumerian spoke Tamil fluently and wrote in Tamil..
If two peoples, the Sumerians and Akkadians, speak radically different languages, isn’t it reasonable to conclude those peoples are unrelated to each other? After all, we take the fact that Basque is a non-Indo-European language as evidence that Basque ancestors have quite different origins to most other Europeans; and, conversely, that if languages are related, such as Polynesian languages and indigenous Taiwanese, that the speakers have a common origin.
I tend to agree with your main points but linguistics is essentially a guideline to migration not a 1 to 1 model of it. You can have two distinct people groups meet and intermix while maintaining both languages. You can also force a native population to speak /write a foreign language while intermixing or not. Plenty of the world speaks English but don’t have any or much Germanic ancestry. Maybe Akkadian was a lingua Franca …
@SamedMuratagic27 It's hard for a population to completely give up its native language unless for one that has a similar underlying grammatical substrate. For example, Aramaic replaced Hebrew, and then Arabic replaced Aramaic because they're not dissimilar. Romanian OTOH, despite over 1,000 years of being surrounded by Slavic language speakers, remains Latin, although it has been influenced. Turkish by and large replaced Greek in Asia Minor - although Romeyka still, barely, survives - but, I would posit, because of religious motivation. English largely replaced Irish in Ireland, but only after centuries of domination and settlement. Chinese heavily influenced Korean, but never replaced it because of fundamental differences. English is spoken all over the world now, but, at a guess, its penetration is shallow and would likely vanish as completely as Koine Greek vanished from the Middle East if the centres of power shifted. My point is it's not so easy for one population to switch to another language unless that language is fairly similar to its own.
Great, good work... Kramer says research on Sumerian is incomplete..there are scope for future research... We few native Tamil speakers say myself & Loganathan of Malaysia think, as between Iraq- Mesopotamia-India there are cultural continuity.. The business community in Tamilnadu, nagarathaar are just like Sumerian, temple centered, infact, whole of India that might be true, we have a proverb don't live in a village if there is no temple koil illatha ooril (Ur+il) kudi iruukka vendaam... See Sumerian syllables, Tamil sir ( Sumerian poem) ur, e, am in the Tamil sentance.. I propose Early Sumerian could have come from the rims of Lemuria continent believed by us sunken under Indian Ocean..
What do you mean more? What more could there be? There's just a rough sort of friendship, which is implied by trade, or war, which we assume their was not, because no evidence of war between them exists.
@ i made an entire video about it but is not allowed on youtube, or anywhere else. i hosted it on buy me a coffee and everyone says they can’t view it. so we’re out of luck.
31:03 the need for construction of ziggurat initially could have been to protect from flooding..and as we constructed temples to reach sky god or getting connected..as I understand from Flood story..
1:11:22 may be it is an error, particularly, if we look into Kramer on Sumerian, the appendix...the early forms are definitely Tamil as we could relate pictogram, meaning, sound value..I recommend scholars to work on this early forms of Sumerian to recover better sense of Sumerian literature..
My thesis or postulate as one may wish to take: Early Sumerian spoke Tamil fluently and wrote in Tamil. 14.23..The sign ki, sound value key, meaning earth in Tamil in full modern form is kidai, kidakkai, Kai as well..to denote place, left right..
23:24 I tell our friends in Tamilnadu, see you have clay tablets written in Tamil and as recovered by Western scholars.. don't just regret that we have lost what were written on palm leaves..burnt or left in rivers or decayed..
32:28...uruk..urukku melting, city where that was happening.. eridu..aeri lakes, ponds ... place of them... Even Sumeri..could mean aeri soozhnda...the place covered by lakes.. we also have this word summa, that gives many meanings..one is just like that.. The early Akkadian & Sumerian might have got well mixed when there were thin population, with little competitions..on resources..
Collins's summary of racist theory pretty neatly also summarises current racist theory, masquerading as progressiveness. In the current Newspeak "progressive" means (in Oldspeak), "regressive" or even "reactionary".
31:03.. I am mostly traversing on linguistic.. UR, ur, oor is well known in Tamil as city or village or town...even I go back, the etymological link to creatures those move like snakes, worms or in simple sense move..migrate, as oorvana, again a test of agglutinative languages.. construction.. The ziggurat is seen by me in Tamil as sikil..ratham as sigaram, as peak, sikil as peacock.. Even Iraqi name sigaam might have come from sikil..
So much emphasis on " semitic" without any real explanation of the term. For anyone interested, Semitic comes from the JEWISH Story of creation, not Mesopotamian ( Assyrian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Sumerian, Kassite ), meaning no Mesopotamian ever heard of this foreign term they were being subjugated with by old judean rabis. There is nothing " semitic" outside judean scripts, & even if we humor the term, the said Mesopotamian nations were thousands of years Older than Shem, making it a literal, mathematical, physical Impossibility for them to be " semitic", regardless of any lingual " connections', which were more realistically Influence rather than relation. Go ahead and do a research on Shem's birthday, you will not get farther back than 2400 BC, if he actually existed outside Jewish texts, but if we take him at face value, he still comes around thousands of years Late. Unesco dates Nineveh ( heart of Assyria ) at 6000 BC, with Erbil & Kalkhu & other Assyrian cities following soon after, all predating mythical Shem. Can a son ever be older than the father? It's a ridiculous, outdated, misnomer invention by ancient jews and nothing more. As for the Racial type of Mesopotamians, they were, and we still are as Assyrians, Mediterranean Caucasoids. This is a term coined by a German visitor to the country of Georgia, Where Assyrians already lived since before the time of Islam. Georgia actually has 13 founding Christian Assyrian fathers, look that up as well. The German visitor in the 1700s I believe, coined the term " Caucasian" when he observed the Georgians, yet had no idea he was looking at Assyrians at the same time. Assyrians get their name from the God Aššur, not some Asher son of a Shem as the judeans like to profess. Aššur the God, the city, the language all predate anything " semitic" by thousands of years, even their late arrival to the Levant via Egypt or Arabia. A lot to consider here.
15:49... The Sumerian part could be taken ie lugal ki.en.gi ki uri : aalugal kaiengi kidai oori...so to say the ruler, kaiengi of the City place ( Ur)!
My works mostly based on ePSD & ETCSL, research on secondary data, so recommend other scholars, Dravidian languages & African even European to test my thesis afresh.. note Greek numbers 1 & 9, how they are counted or said, have Sumerian-Tamil links..as number+aa & number+niaa
19:19.. Gudea...kudigalin ayya...father or grandfather of the people, citizens Girisu..sooran kirukku... the expert scribe or the place where they are seen..
Energy and dealing with it in sunshine-latitudes, where Sumer and other Mesopotamian cities located, and how that formed social consciousness - should be given a fair gravity in research, from now on. We now understand that, traumatised, out of the last ice age, the European mind has dealt with finite fossil fuel reserves - like no tomorrow - to total depletion in just 300 years. Would the attitude be different if sunshine-latitudes were in charge of Civilisation today - knowing those people are who have originally coined the concept of "Seven years of great plenty... Then there will come seven years of hunger and famine" and Gilgamesh's great loss of eternity? Can one articulate why it is sunshine-latitudes who again have become first in coining today that: "In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most. Time taken in stocking energy to build an energy system, adding to it the time taken in building the system will always be longer than the entire useful lifetime of the system. No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores. No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it. This universal truth applies to all systems. Energy, like time, flows from past to future" (2017).
1:05:57 I suspect that superstitious or mystic appearances including hiding true identity could be reasons ... further, we have to investigate how shaving technology was in those period...
The Sumerian relics were already there for millenia. Just ask the local guides who guided the British Archeologists. It's been centuries since the end of the British Empire, but the arrogance still shows unfortunately. "Discovery" is stretching it.
Excellent presentation: I had a question, those men of the day that did much of the translations, were they translating sag.gi.ga “black headed” via a racial prism? I ask because today many linguists in Assyriology view it as “peoples” rather than the literal interpretations. Thanks in advance.
Disappointing. The speaker seemed keen to disparage the British, other Europeans and previous generations of scholars, and signal his virtue on the subject of race. He had little to offer on the Sumerians themselves. It was a bit like being stuck behind folk chattering in the queue at Waitrose in Islington. Much fashionable noise, and not enough to the point.
Excellent information, thank you for allowing the public to enjoy.
I am from Iraq and enjoyed this lecture especially finding out that the so-called Sumerian Queen is actually Akkadian in origin. And Assyrian Kings learned to read and write Sumerian
Thank You so much for a wonderful and informative lecture!
Dr. Collin’s was extremely helpful to the broad community of interested non-professionals by his answers to questions.
Thank you. So wonderful presented
Beautiful lecture, thank you very much and please do keep making these very informative talks
Thank you. I did not know queen Pu Abi and Shulgi were Akkadian
Clarification: primarily Akkadian- speakers, no racial identity intended.
How did Hinks assign sound values to the Cuneiform script
There's a wiki article for 'Decipherment of cuneiform'. An excerpt:
Actual decipherment did not take place until the beginning of the 19th century, initiated by Georg Friedrich Grotefend in his study of Old Persian cuneiform. He was followed by Antoine-Jean Saint-Martin in 1822 and Rasmus Christian Rask in 1823, who was the first to decipher the name Achaemenides and the consonants m and n. Eugène Burnouf identified the names of various satrapies and the consonants k and z in 1833-1835. Christian Lassen contributed significantly to the grammatical understanding of the Old Persian language and the use of vowels. The decipherers used the short trilingual inscriptions from Persepolis and the inscriptions from Ganjnāme for their work.
In a final step, the decipherment of the trilingual Behistun inscription was completed by Henry Rawlinson and Edward Hincks. Edward Hincks discovered that Old Persian is partly a syllabary.
i went to the archeology museum in istanbul,and spent hours just studying the tablets...like as if describing today...the topics...
Thank you for your presentation. I hope that when I die, I get to see all of the history we look at now. What a great thing that would be!
When you die you'll be judged. If you've been doing bad things you won't see anything except fire.
Truly breathtaking.
Excellent
I'm 100% Sumerian. If you have any questions, just ask me!
Vida Blue was Sumerian?!?! 💙
@bright9 he kept it hidden due to anti-Sumerian prejudice.
1:04:50...As I understand recovering Flood story through present form of Tamil is that the poet had written to pass the intelligence to protect from floods ( not just one) and to use the floods for cultivation...
I also recommend that reading Sumerian literature would help us to get better details than rejecting my thesis or postulate as Early Sumerian spoke Tamil fluently and wrote in Tamil..
If two peoples, the Sumerians and Akkadians, speak radically different languages, isn’t it reasonable to conclude those peoples are unrelated to each other? After all, we take the fact that Basque is a non-Indo-European language as evidence that Basque ancestors have quite different origins to most other Europeans; and, conversely, that if languages are related, such as Polynesian languages and indigenous Taiwanese, that the speakers have a common origin.
It's the usual woke mentality.
I tend to agree with your main points but linguistics is essentially a guideline to migration not a 1 to 1 model of it. You can have two distinct people groups meet and intermix while maintaining both languages. You can also force a native population to speak /write a foreign language while intermixing or not. Plenty of the world speaks English but don’t have any or much Germanic ancestry. Maybe Akkadian was a lingua Franca …
@SamedMuratagic27 It's hard for a population to completely give up its native language unless for one that has a similar underlying grammatical substrate. For example, Aramaic replaced Hebrew, and then Arabic replaced Aramaic because they're not dissimilar. Romanian OTOH, despite over 1,000 years of being surrounded by Slavic language speakers, remains Latin, although it has been influenced. Turkish by and large replaced Greek in Asia Minor - although Romeyka still, barely, survives - but, I would posit, because of religious motivation. English largely replaced Irish in Ireland, but only after centuries of domination and settlement. Chinese heavily influenced Korean, but never replaced it because of fundamental differences. English is spoken all over the world now, but, at a guess, its penetration is shallow and would likely vanish as completely as Koine Greek vanished from the Middle East if the centres of power shifted.
My point is it's not so easy for one population to switch to another language unless that language is fairly similar to its own.
Great, good work... Kramer says research on Sumerian is incomplete..there are scope for future research...
We few native Tamil speakers say myself & Loganathan of Malaysia think, as between Iraq- Mesopotamia-India there are cultural continuity.. The business community in Tamilnadu, nagarathaar are just like Sumerian, temple centered, infact, whole of India that might be true, we have a proverb don't live in a village if there is no temple koil illatha ooril (Ur+il) kudi iruukka vendaam... See Sumerian syllables, Tamil sir ( Sumerian poem) ur, e, am in the Tamil sentance..
I propose Early Sumerian could have come from the rims of Lemuria continent believed by us sunken under Indian Ocean..
Sumer and Indus wally civilisations were in simillar time frame and there was trade among them. Was there more than trade?
What do you mean more? What more could there be? There's just a rough sort of friendship, which is implied by trade, or war, which we assume their was not, because no evidence of war between them exists.
You mean like mixing cultural, social, sexual?
i could add a LOT to this. you guys are missing something so important.
Why not just say it then ?
@ i made an entire video about it but is not allowed on youtube, or anywhere else. i hosted it on buy me a coffee and everyone says they can’t view it. so we’re out of luck.
21:37... Yes, great works of Western scholars.. with out that, we or I would not have known from languages angle, the Sumerians spoke Tamil..
Good luck
What is the d
Story of the sumarines dog?
Interesting... the cow with the trifold embellishments was carried over to the Egyptian's art... so cool...
Well, beautiful lecture but so little information.
Much better and simpler given by professor Vladimir Emelyanov, of St Petersburg state university.
So where can one find any example of his presentations? I googled it and could not find any.
31:03 the need for construction of ziggurat initially could have been to protect from flooding..and as we constructed temples to reach sky god or getting connected..as I understand from Flood story..
1:11:22 may be it is an error, particularly, if we look into Kramer on Sumerian, the appendix...the early forms are definitely Tamil as we could relate pictogram, meaning, sound value..I recommend scholars to work on this early forms of Sumerian to recover better sense of Sumerian literature..
My thesis or postulate as one may wish to take: Early Sumerian spoke Tamil fluently and wrote in Tamil.
14.23..The sign ki, sound value key, meaning earth in Tamil in full modern form is kidai, kidakkai, Kai as well..to denote place, left right..
23:24 I tell our friends in Tamilnadu, see you have clay tablets written in Tamil and as recovered by Western scholars.. don't just regret that we have lost what were written on palm leaves..burnt or left in rivers or decayed..
32:28...uruk..urukku melting, city where that was happening.. eridu..aeri lakes, ponds ... place of them... Even Sumeri..could mean aeri soozhnda...the place covered by lakes.. we also have this word summa, that gives many meanings..one is just like that..
The early Akkadian & Sumerian might have got well mixed when there were thin population, with little competitions..on resources..
eridu means bull or cattle in tamil-malayalam. the actual site of eridu at sumer shows a lot of effigies of bull head and horns.
Advance Merry Christmas to All and zagumukku new year to all Iraqis ( and ourselves Pongal new year)..
Collins's summary of racist theory pretty neatly also summarises current racist theory, masquerading as progressiveness. In the current Newspeak "progressive" means (in Oldspeak), "regressive" or even "reactionary".
31:03.. I am mostly traversing on linguistic.. UR, ur, oor is well known in Tamil as city or village or town...even I go back, the etymological link to creatures those move like snakes, worms or in simple sense move..migrate, as oorvana, again a test of agglutinative languages.. construction..
The ziggurat is seen by me in Tamil as sikil..ratham as sigaram, as peak, sikil as peacock..
Even Iraqi name sigaam might have come from sikil..
So much emphasis on " semitic" without any real explanation of the term. For anyone interested, Semitic comes from the JEWISH Story of creation, not Mesopotamian ( Assyrian, Akkadian, Babylonian, Sumerian, Kassite ), meaning no Mesopotamian ever heard of this foreign term they were being subjugated with by old judean rabis.
There is nothing " semitic" outside judean scripts, & even if we humor the term, the said Mesopotamian nations were thousands of years Older than Shem, making it a literal, mathematical, physical Impossibility for them to be " semitic", regardless of any lingual " connections', which were more realistically Influence rather than relation.
Go ahead and do a research on Shem's birthday, you will not get farther back than 2400 BC, if he actually existed outside Jewish texts, but if we take him at face value, he still comes around thousands of years Late.
Unesco dates Nineveh ( heart of Assyria ) at 6000 BC, with Erbil & Kalkhu & other Assyrian cities following soon after, all predating mythical Shem.
Can a son ever be older than the father? It's a ridiculous, outdated, misnomer invention by ancient jews and nothing more.
As for the Racial type of Mesopotamians, they were, and we still are as Assyrians, Mediterranean Caucasoids. This is a term coined by a German visitor to the country of Georgia, Where Assyrians already lived since before the time of Islam.
Georgia actually has 13 founding Christian Assyrian fathers, look that up as well. The German visitor in the 1700s I believe, coined the term " Caucasian" when he observed the Georgians, yet had no idea he was looking at Assyrians at the same time. Assyrians get their name from the God Aššur, not some Asher son of a Shem as the judeans like to profess.
Aššur the God, the city, the language all predate anything " semitic" by thousands of years, even their late arrival to the Levant via Egypt or Arabia. A lot to consider here.
32:47 these huts look very similar to the Thoda tribes temples of Tamil Nadu..
@6:45 Look, a map from 1848 that says Palestine. "That's antisemitic", you can hear, spoken with a conlang in a European accent.
15:49... The Sumerian part could be taken ie lugal ki.en.gi ki uri : aalugal kaiengi kidai oori...so to say the ruler, kaiengi of the City place ( Ur)!
My works mostly based on ePSD & ETCSL, research on secondary data, so recommend other scholars, Dravidian languages & African even European to test my thesis afresh.. note Greek numbers 1 & 9, how they are counted or said, have Sumerian-Tamil links..as number+aa & number+niaa
19:19.. Gudea...kudigalin ayya...father or grandfather of the people, citizens
Girisu..sooran kirukku... the expert scribe or the place where they are seen..
Energy and dealing with it in sunshine-latitudes, where Sumer and other Mesopotamian cities located, and how that formed social consciousness - should be given a fair gravity in research, from now on.
We now understand that, traumatised, out of the last ice age, the European mind has dealt with finite fossil fuel reserves - like no tomorrow - to total depletion in just 300 years.
Would the attitude be different if sunshine-latitudes were in charge of Civilisation today - knowing those people are who have originally coined the concept of "Seven years of great plenty... Then there will come seven years of hunger and famine" and Gilgamesh's great loss of eternity?
Can one articulate why it is sunshine-latitudes who again have become first in coining today that:
"In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most.
Time taken in stocking energy to build an energy system, adding to it the time taken in building the system will always be longer than the entire useful lifetime of the system.
No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future" (2017).
47:45.. shulgi...I take in Tamil as sool+Kai or sool+gi... respectively meaning person of fertility + hand & person of fertility..
1:05:57 I suspect that superstitious or mystic appearances including hiding true identity could be reasons ... further, we have to investigate how shaving technology was in those period...
puabu=baba in turkish
33:26 sid or zid the dates and it's sweetsness are related to spiritual experiences of God, as the sweet one can taste than see..
The Sumerian relics were already there for millenia. Just ask the local guides who guided the British Archeologists. It's been centuries since the end of the British Empire, but the arrogance still shows unfortunately. "Discovery" is stretching it.
1:02:04 This is probably the most horrifically pretentious question I've ever heard.
Excellent presentation: I had a question, those men of the day that did much of the translations, were they translating sag.gi.ga “black headed” via a racial prism?
I ask because today many linguists in Assyriology view it as “peoples” rather than the literal interpretations.
Thanks in advance.
Disappointing. The speaker seemed keen to disparage the British, other Europeans and previous generations of scholars, and signal his virtue on the subject of race. He had little to offer on the Sumerians themselves. It was a bit like being stuck behind folk chattering in the queue at Waitrose in Islington. Much fashionable noise, and not enough to the point.