BISI Webinar: Dr Paul Collins on ‘Discovering the Sumerians’
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- Dr Paul Collins on ‘Discovering the Sumerians’
The Sumerians are widely believed to have created the world’s earliest civilization on the fertile floodplains of southern Iraq from about 3500 to 2000 BC. They have been credited with cities, the invention of writing and the wheel, and therefore hold an ancient mirror to our own urban, literate world. But is this picture correct? This talk will reveal how the idea of a Sumerian people was assembled from archaeological and textual evidence uncovered in Iraq and Syria over the last 150 years. Reconstructed through the biases of those who unearthed them, the Sumerians were never simply lost and found, but reinvented a number of times, both in antiquity and in the more recent past.
Beautiful lecture, thank you very much and please do keep making these very informative talks
Thank You so much for a wonderful and informative lecture!
I have a question for you can you please tell your profesor to come out and debate me to prove sumer is in Iraq, come out and tell the world where the cities are located today all of them. Akkad, Lassa, Umma, Eridu, UR, lagash, Sippa and others I'm waiting
Thank you for your presentation. I hope that when I die, I get to see all of the history we look at now. What a great thing that would be!
When you die you'll be judged. If you've been doing bad things you won't see anything except fire.
I'm 100% Sumerian. If you have any questions, just ask me!
I have a question for you can you please tell your profesor to come out and debate me please. And can you come out and tell the world where the cities are located today all of them. Akkad, Lassa, Umma, Eridu, UR, lagash, Sippa and others I'm waiting
Truly breathtaking.
I have a question for you can you please tell your profesor to come out and debate me to prove sumer is in Iraq, come out and tell the world where the cities are located today all of them. Akkad, Lassa, Umma, Eridu, UR, lagash, Sippa and others I'm waiting
i went to the archeology museum in istanbul,and spent hours just studying the tablets...like as if describing today...the topics...
Interesting... the cow with the trifold embellishments was carried over to the Egyptian's art... so cool...
Good luck
i could add a LOT to this. you guys are missing something so important.
1:04:50...As I understand recovering Flood story through present form of Tamil is that the poet had written to pass the intelligence to protect from floods ( not just one) and to use the floods for cultivation...
I also recommend that reading Sumerian literature would help us to get better details than rejecting my thesis or postulate as Early Sumerian spoke Tamil fluently and wrote in Tamil..
Great, good work... Kramer says research on Sumerian is incomplete..there are scope for future research...
We few native Tamil speakers say myself & Loganathan of Malaysia think, as between Iraq- Mesopotamia-India there are cultural continuity.. The business community in Tamilnadu, nagarathaar are just like Sumerian, temple centered, infact, whole of India that might be true, we have a proverb don't live in a village if there is no temple koil illatha ooril (Ur+il) kudi iruukka vendaam... See Sumerian syllables, Tamil sir ( Sumerian poem) ur, e, am in the Tamil sentance..
I propose Early Sumerian could have come from the rims of Lemuria continent believed by us sunken under Indian Ocean..
If two peoples, the Sumerians and Akkadians, speak radically different languages, isn’t it reasonable to conclude those peoples are unrelated to each other? After all, we take the fact that Basque is a non-Indo-European language as evidence that Basque ancestors have quite different origins to most other Europeans; and, conversely, that if languages are related, such as Polynesian languages and indigenous Taiwanese, that the speakers have a common origin.
It's the usual woke mentality.
I tend to agree with your main points but linguistics is essentially a guideline to migration not a 1 to 1 model of it. You can have two distinct people groups meet and intermix while maintaining both languages. You can also force a native population to speak /write a foreign language while intermixing or not. Plenty of the world speaks English but don’t have any or much Germanic ancestry. Maybe Akkadian was a lingua Franca …
@SamedMuratagic27 It's hard for a population to completely give up its native language unless for one that has a similar underlying grammatical substrate. For example, Aramaic replaced Hebrew, and then Arabic replaced Aramaic because they're not dissimilar. Romanian OTOH, despite over 1,000 years of being surrounded by Slavic language speakers, remains Latin, although it has been influenced. Turkish by and large replaced Greek in Asia Minor - although Romeyka still, barely, survives - but, I would posit, because of religious motivation. English largely replaced Irish in Ireland, but only after centuries of domination and settlement. Chinese heavily influenced Korean, but never replaced it because of fundamental differences. English is spoken all over the world now, but, at a guess, its penetration is shallow and would likely vanish as completely as Koine Greek vanished from the Middle East if the centres of power shifted.
My point is it's not so easy for one population to switch to another language unless that language is fairly similar to its own.
Sumer and Indus wally civilisations were in simillar time frame and there was trade among them. Was there more than trade?
What do you mean more? What more could there be? There's just a rough sort of friendship, which is implied by trade, or war, which we assume their was not, because no evidence of war between them exists.
You mean like mixing cultural, social, sexual?
Energy and dealing with it in sunshine-latitudes, where Sumer and other Mesopotamian cities located, and how that formed social consciousness - should be given a fair gravity in research, from now on.
We now understand that, traumatised, out of the last ice age, the European mind has dealt with finite fossil fuel reserves - like no tomorrow - to total depletion in just 300 years.
Would the attitude be different if sunshine-latitudes were in charge of Civilisation today - knowing those people are who have originally coined the concept of "Seven years of great plenty... Then there will come seven years of hunger and famine" and Gilgamesh's great loss of eternity?
Can one articulate why it is sunshine-latitudes who again have become first in coining today that:
"In any system of energy, Control is what consumes energy the most.
Time taken in stocking energy to build an energy system, adding to it the time taken in building the system will always be longer than the entire useful lifetime of the system.
No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future" (2017).
Collins's summary of racist theory pretty neatly also summarises current racist theory, masquerading as progressiveness. In the current Newspeak "progressive" means (in Oldspeak), "regressive" or even "reactionary".
My thesis or postulate as one may wish to take: Early Sumerian spoke Tamil fluently and wrote in Tamil.
14.23..The sign ki, sound value key, meaning earth in Tamil in full modern form is kidai, kidakkai, Kai as well..to denote place, left right..
21:37... Yes, great works of Western scholars.. with out that, we or I would not have known from languages angle, the Sumerians spoke Tamil..
Advance Merry Christmas to All and zagumukku new year to all Iraqis ( and ourselves Pongal new year)..
My works mostly based on ePSD & ETCSL, research on secondary data, so recommend other scholars, Dravidian languages & African even European to test my thesis afresh.. note Greek numbers 1 & 9, how they are counted or said, have Sumerian-Tamil links..as number+aa & number+niaa
31:03 the need for construction of ziggurat initially could have been to protect from flooding..and as we constructed temples to reach sky god or getting connected..as I understand from Flood story..
puabu=baba in turkish
32:28...uruk..urukku melting, city where that was happening.. eridu..aeri lakes, ponds ... place of them... Even Sumeri..could mean aeri soozhnda...the place covered by lakes.. we also have this word summa, that gives many meanings..one is just like that..
The early Akkadian & Sumerian might have got well mixed when there were thin population, with little competitions..on resources..
eridu means bull or cattle in tamil-malayalam. the actual site of eridu at sumer shows a lot of effigies of bull head and horns.
23:24 I tell our friends in Tamilnadu, see you have clay tablets written in Tamil and as recovered by Western scholars.. don't just regret that we have lost what were written on palm leaves..burnt or left in rivers or decayed..
32:47 these huts look very similar to the Thoda tribes temples of Tamil Nadu..
1:11:22 may be it is an error, particularly, if we look into Kramer on Sumerian, the appendix...the early forms are definitely Tamil as we could relate pictogram, meaning, sound value..I recommend scholars to work on this early forms of Sumerian to recover better sense of Sumerian literature..
31:03.. I am mostly traversing on linguistic.. UR, ur, oor is well known in Tamil as city or village or town...even I go back, the etymological link to creatures those move like snakes, worms or in simple sense move..migrate, as oorvana, again a test of agglutinative languages.. construction..
The ziggurat is seen by me in Tamil as sikil..ratham as sigaram, as peak, sikil as peacock..
Even Iraqi name sigaam might have come from sikil..
Excellent presentation: I had a question, those men of the day that did much of the translations, were they translating sag.gi.ga “black headed” via a racial prism?
I ask because today many linguists in Assyriology view it as “peoples” rather than the literal interpretations.
Thanks in advance.
15:49... The Sumerian part could be taken ie lugal ki.en.gi ki uri : aalugal kaiengi kidai oori...so to say the ruler, kaiengi of the City place ( Ur)!
47:45.. shulgi...I take in Tamil as sool+Kai or sool+gi... respectively meaning person of fertility + hand & person of fertility..
19:19.. Gudea...kudigalin ayya...father or grandfather of the people, citizens
Girisu..sooran kirukku... the expert scribe or the place where they are seen..
The Sumerian relics were already there for millenia. Just ask the local guides who guided the British Archeologists. It's been centuries since the end of the British Empire, but the arrogance still shows unfortunately. "Discovery" is stretching it.
1:05:57 I suspect that superstitious or mystic appearances including hiding true identity could be reasons ... further, we have to investigate how shaving technology was in those period...
33:26 sid or zid the dates and it's sweetsness are related to spiritual experiences of God, as the sweet one can taste than see..
Turkic