Flea don’t be so hard on yourself !!! Your form looks pretty good and you are making a positive change that will improve your accuracy in the long run !! Truth be told most archers who say the are “instinctive archers”are actually “Split Vision” shooters !! Yes they stare at their spot BUT they also reference the arrow tip in their sight picture !!! There is Point of Aim……True Gap shooting and “Split Vision” shooters …..Check with Jeff and Grisly Jim and they can explain the subtle differences in these 3 styles !!! Hang in there !!
I think you worry to much. You will get better every day... we all have set backs and bad days. If we wanted easy we sure as hell would not be shooting trad. I accept the fact that Brady Ellis could out shoot me from inside a ditch with his arm in a cast. It's about the one arrow, that one clean release and watching that arrow rotate in slow motion all the way to the point you aimed. This is the memory I still chase from 45 years ago. On the days where all is perfect and I have that happen, I am little boy again with a bow aiming at a pop bottle on fence post watching it shatter. Does not matter if I am the best or worst archer to everyone else. I am the most badass archer that day that moment and that's my love of archery.
As I see it every instinctive archery is in fact a gap shooter. They just have all the different distances imbedded in there brains and muscles. But I must give you lots of compliments for starting your journey in front of us critics.👏😉
Ray you are so right !!! Back in the late eighties I started gap shooting and did so with the same gaps for 10 years….I gave up the sport until the start of Covid and decided to start shooting a bit again…..within 20 minutes i was shooting good groups with the exact same gaps i used so many years ago !! Kind of like knowing the words to a song you haven’t heard in 40 years !!!
Sounds like you have the same bad habits that I have. I tried to learn to shoot 3under, until I got tired of my arrows going everywhere but the target, what I did learn is that It's okay to learn something different, just don't let the process take the fun out of it! (still shooting split)
Your titles for your vid, exposes you as a great humour it’s 🤣🤣🤣👍🏼. I looked at your past vids, the titles are funny 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼. Also, I love to see a collab between you and NuSensei or Jake Kamenski or Rogue Archery. Maybe one of them can use this opportunity to coach someone who is already in the public
Instinctive archery is gap shooting, just without looking at the arrow. Instinctive archers like punishing and criticising themselves. I know, I am/was/still am one. Funny how we allow ourselves to point our bow hand directly in the line of the target but on NO ACCOUNT may we look at how far above or below we are aiming. 😁
You're allowed to have bad periods in everything you do. Anytime you try something new or change kit in archery SOMETHING is gonna be different, so a new way of aiming is gonna completely throw you off. Try not to focus and remember why you took up archery in the first place and try to just have fun. Alternatively, try blank bale for a while just to get your grouping together. No colours on the target = no problem.
I'm still a noob, but, I don't know..I think gap shooting has the potencial to improve your instinctive. Gap shooting may give you a better sense of distance and over time your body and your form will start to pick up where the arrow should be pointing. And maybe you will shoot instictive again, and do well.
Knowing where the point is in relation to the target when you release is not a sin. Hitting the target is very satisfying. Cant the bow and get the arrow under your eye. I have a 28 inch draw but I use a 32 inch arrow. Since the arrow is the sight, you then have a longer sight radius. Hold at anchor 3 seconds minimum before release. If you can't do that comfortably then you are shooting too heavy of a bow.
I have four major hobbies that I suck at but for me just being able to have the ability to make time to enjoy the things that give me joy doing them is big enough for me especially since I've made some great friends from the communities that share my passion. Honing my skills is mainly what gives me pleasure yet I seem to improve slower than my companions. I've learned that about myself and realized that comparing myself to others isnt fair to myself or others. Embrace what you can work on, refine what you can and celebrate the moment being present with what you enjoy. One of my friends used to say during training "embrace the suck" and I did. Before I even realised the change I started to really enjoy training. I do hold pride in the progress I've made. Having said that I could never hold it over someone that wants to employ a technique to achieve improvement it's not like your trying to buy skill. I personally prefer to shoot instinctively because it's a meditative activity for me. Just make sure to keep your passion and enjoyment alive and that's what counts. Sending you good energy, good luck and have fun at etar. :)
Bare bow require more courage than what I got 🙈🙈🙈🤣🤣🤣👍🏻❤️ “Getting tired of losing” you got good attitude!!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼❤️ I want…..need you to win bare bow in any of the USA Archery event! Us, lesser archers, need you to “chew gum and kick ass, and you’re all out of bubble gum”. BURN THE WORLD!
Would trying a weight help you to steady the Bow more? I'm sure that you'll improve more because you have the willingness to do so. Good luck my Dear and just have fun at it.
I shot split instinctive with corner mouth anchor since the start, I couldn't hit much past 20 yards and was using heavy FOC arrows "all the rave". Decided to break all the rules and went gap (still use "instinctive" aiming but now use point of arrow) three under with olympic anchor. My point on is 40-45 yards now, and accuracy has drastically improved, went from heavy to light arrows for a flat trajectory.
Thanks for this. I'm going through the same dilemma. Tried gap shooting once briefly and gave it up. Just like the way instinctive shooting feels, but even after 4 or 5 years of consistent practice, consistent accuracy still eludes me.
Gap shooting is demonstrably more accurate, but every instinctive archer should learn to gap shoot. Understanding gap shooting helps you understand your arrow flight and path better. Having a better understanding of your arrow flight allows you to better shoot intuitively (which is a more accurate term than "instinctive"). If you're just "bad," pick up a compound.
I started gap shooting this past spring. Not bad, not great. I've been instinctive for my whole archery life. I find that if I practice gap shooting the whole time at the range and then switch to instinctive, I shoot like an archery god; stacking arrows in a 2 inch circle. I don't know if it is my concentrating on form while gap shooting carrying over to make my instinctive better or what.
You can estimate your gaps easily in 15 minutes…. Your point on is 20 yards ….Move back to 25 yards and shoot 6 arrows with your arrow point on the bullseye …if your arrows group 4 inches low then your gap is 4 inches above the bullseye ! 30 yards maybe you are 16 inches low…Your gap is now 16 inches above at that distance…..Conversely at 15 yards your group may be 6 inches above the bullseye so your gap at that distance would be 6 inches below the bullseye !! Remember when you are doing this at different distances your arrow point is ALWAYS on the bullseye !! Be sure to write down your estimated gaps and keep them in your quiver or on your phone !! Hey the process is easy,fun and deadly accurate !!! Good Luck !!
Your phone has this neet feature called slow motion. First is directly behind you to check arm arrow alignment. Second is face to face to check your release and follow through. A spectacular training tool when you're trying to change aspects of your shooting. Good luck on your journey!
it means you do not look exactly along the arrow , try at first to shoot at a vertical string, forghet about up or doun for a moment and concetrate on left an right..shoot at that string until you will manage to align proper
Just do what works for you!! Instinctive snobbery is silly ! Truth is out to 20 instinctive is the thing but as the distance grows aiming is critical ! In firearms there is no such thing as instinctive or gap there is only aiming ! It’s all just aiming
Glad you decided to do this, but a repeatable shot cycle is still needed, if not more so now. Gap aiming won't fix lazy form. You're not a bad archer I think you just don't shoot enough arrows every week to be as competitive as want to be now.
You absolutely don't have to close an eye to gap shoot...I keep both open. Also...I don't believe you have to concentrate on the arrow....I stare a hole through the spot I want to hit and the arrow is a blur and I think my tiny brain calculates where I have to hold. I always wished I could shoot truly instinctively and be more of a snap shot shooter but I shot compounds for years so I'm never comfortable shooting until I hold on target for a couple of seconds. I enjoy your channel....thanks for sharing.
#gapshaming 🤣 There's nothing wrong with learning to gap and aim.. it actually makes your instinctive game sharper✌️And it looks like it's working for you🔥🔥🔥
Flea, when they say "Point On". Means at full draw with Point of arrow on the bullseye 🎯. You hit bullseye. If closer to target, ya have to figure out where to hold below target. Further back, ya have to hold put tip of arrow above bullseye. Like you were told, your point on is probably around 30 yds or so. Lots of UA-cam videos explaining the procedure.
I agree. When I'm shooting at the range I know my gaps pretty well. At the 3d course I'm not guessing the distance acuratly, I think a short moment where to place my tip and thats it. If i miss i know how to correct. Greets from Germany 😀
Dont worry there is no such thing as instintive archery its all a learnt response, if it was instinctive you wouldnt need to practice, if you practice a skill you are learning a response , to obtain a result you desire
I thinking about putting a video up. To teach people how to think and shoot instinctive. A lot of people make it to complicative. If any body thinks they would like to see the simple way speak up.
You are way too hard on yourself. No one is that critical of your shooting except you. You can't fix anything until you are less critical( thinking clearly, positve), comfortable and consistent in form and thought. Gotta keep your head in the right place (double meaning intended). "With Winning in Mind" by Lanny Basham for the mental side. Your last ends were excellent! There's always going to be "the one or two arrows ". Aim in the style you enjoy. They all have their range limitations.
Archers give the worse advice. You will not get better if you have no repeatable shot sequence. You’ll keep trying stupid different methods that lead to nowhere but more panic. Right now you can’t even hold @ Anchor. The fastest way to improve is thru a coach! You learn more in 3 lessons than 10 yrs of stupidity & advice from archers who suck. Seek out Tom Clum, Len Cardinale, Rod Jenkins, Jake Kaminski, Rick McKinney, all qualified coaches here to help! Ingraining bad habits does just that it makes you worse not better. Good luck
Omg the guilt of trying to conform to some kind of Instictive archery ideal. 😂 If you are shooting for IBO/WA 3D you ideally want a 33yd/30m point on as that's your max distance for Trad class. You would also be better shooting at a horizontal line to find your point on. Avoid looking at the point of the arrow any longer than necessary to see where it is in relation to the spot you want to hit. Getting caught up looking at your arrow tip is a path to TP. Once you get used to seeing the point in peripheral vision close to where you need it to be , focus on the spot you want to hit. Both eyes open is better, its more relaxed and closer to sighting rather than aiming. Closing an eye adds tension. You were hitting your anchor fine. Your left/right spread might not be a spine/tune issue. It might be string blur or string picture related. Once your brain learns where the string blur reference needs to be to be consistently shooting straight you can leave the subconcious to manage that, just like instinctive shooting. Same with your gaps. Once you learn them you simply look at the target and visualise where your arrow needs to go for the arrow to impact where you want. Draw up, set that gap and algnment and then move on with the shot. Don't dwell on aiming, execute a strong shot and finish your follow through. It will take time, not 30 arrows at 20yds. Give it a couple if months at least and expect to suck at it for a while.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #1 НАЧАЛО ПУТЕШЕСТВИЯ [Новый сезон] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/380Q7gLWGvk/mqdefault.jpg)
Flea don’t be so hard on yourself !!! Your form looks pretty good and you are making a positive change that will improve your accuracy in the long run !! Truth be told most archers who say the are “instinctive archers”are actually “Split Vision” shooters !! Yes they stare at their spot BUT they also reference the arrow tip in their sight picture !!! There is Point of Aim……True Gap shooting and “Split Vision” shooters …..Check with Jeff and Grisly Jim and they can explain the subtle differences in these 3 styles !!! Hang in there !!
I think you worry to much. You will get better every day... we all have set backs and bad days. If we wanted easy we sure as hell would not be shooting trad. I accept the fact that Brady Ellis could out shoot me from inside a ditch with his arm in a cast. It's about the one arrow, that one clean release and watching that arrow rotate in slow motion all the way to the point you aimed. This is the memory I still chase from 45 years ago. On the days where all is perfect and I have that happen, I am little boy again with a bow aiming at a pop bottle on fence post watching it shatter. Does not matter if I am the best or worst archer to everyone else. I am the most badass archer that day that moment and that's my love of archery.
As I see it every instinctive archery is in fact a gap shooter. They just have all the different distances imbedded in there brains and muscles.
But I must give you lots of compliments for starting your journey in front of us critics.👏😉
Ray you are so right !!! Back in the late eighties I started gap shooting and did so with the same gaps for 10 years….I gave up the sport until the start of Covid and decided to start shooting a bit again…..within 20 minutes i was shooting good groups with the exact same gaps i used so many years ago !! Kind of like knowing the words to a song you haven’t heard in 40 years !!!
Sounds like you have the same bad habits that I have. I tried to learn to shoot 3under, until I got tired of my arrows going everywhere but the target, what I did learn is that It's okay to learn something different, just don't let the process take the fun out of it! (still shooting split)
Your titles for your vid, exposes you as a great humour it’s 🤣🤣🤣👍🏼. I looked at your past vids, the titles are funny 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼. Also, I love to see a collab between you and NuSensei or Jake Kamenski or Rogue Archery. Maybe one of them can use this opportunity to coach someone who is already in the public
I would suggest trying some lighter points, so see if your arrows impact closer to the centre.
I'm a instinctive Archer till about 40 yards, then since I do see my point I transition to gap shooting.
Instinctive archery is gap shooting, just without looking at the arrow. Instinctive archers like punishing and criticising themselves. I know, I am/was/still am one. Funny how we allow ourselves to point our bow hand directly in the line of the target but on NO ACCOUNT may we look at how far above or below we are aiming. 😁
What Larry said - get your form right! Accuracy in instinctive/Intuitive or gap depends on that first and foremost.
You're allowed to have bad periods in everything you do. Anytime you try something new or change kit in archery SOMETHING is gonna be different, so a new way of aiming is gonna completely throw you off. Try not to focus and remember why you took up archery in the first place and try to just have fun.
Alternatively, try blank bale for a while just to get your grouping together. No colours on the target = no problem.
I'm still a noob, but, I don't know..I think gap shooting has the potencial to improve your instinctive. Gap shooting may give you a better sense of distance and over time your body and your form will start to pick up where the arrow should be pointing. And maybe you will shoot instictive again, and do well.
Knowing where the point is in relation to the target when you release is not a sin. Hitting the target is very satisfying. Cant the bow and get the arrow under your eye. I have a 28 inch draw but I use a 32 inch arrow. Since the arrow is the sight, you then have a longer sight radius. Hold at anchor 3 seconds minimum before release. If you can't do that comfortably then you are shooting too heavy of a bow.
I have four major hobbies that I suck at but for me just being able to have the ability to make time to enjoy the things that give me joy doing them is big enough for me especially since I've made some great friends from the communities that share my passion. Honing my skills is mainly what gives me pleasure yet I seem to improve slower than my companions. I've learned that about myself and realized that comparing myself to others isnt fair to myself or others. Embrace what you can work on, refine what you can and celebrate the moment being present with what you enjoy.
One of my friends used to say during training "embrace the suck" and I did. Before I even realised the change I started to really enjoy training. I do hold pride in the progress I've made. Having said that I could never hold it over someone that wants to employ a technique to achieve improvement it's not like your trying to buy skill. I personally prefer to shoot instinctively because it's a meditative activity for me. Just make sure to keep your passion and enjoyment alive and that's what counts.
Sending you good energy, good luck and have fun at etar. :)
Bare bow require more courage than what I got 🙈🙈🙈🤣🤣🤣👍🏻❤️
“Getting tired of losing” you got good attitude!!! 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼❤️ I want…..need you to win bare bow in any of the USA Archery event! Us, lesser archers, need you to “chew gum and kick ass, and you’re all out of bubble gum”. BURN THE WORLD!
Would trying a weight help you to steady the Bow more? I'm sure that you'll improve more because you have the willingness to do so. Good luck my Dear and just have fun at it.
I shot split instinctive with corner mouth anchor since the start, I couldn't hit much past 20 yards and was using heavy FOC arrows "all the rave". Decided to break all the rules and went gap (still use "instinctive" aiming but now use point of arrow) three under with olympic anchor. My point on is 40-45 yards now, and accuracy has drastically improved, went from heavy to light arrows for a flat trajectory.
Thanks for this. I'm going through the same dilemma. Tried gap shooting once briefly and gave it up. Just like the way instinctive shooting feels, but even after 4 or 5 years of consistent practice, consistent accuracy still eludes me.
Gap shooting is demonstrably more accurate, but every instinctive archer should learn to gap shoot. Understanding gap shooting helps you understand your arrow flight and path better. Having a better understanding of your arrow flight allows you to better shoot intuitively (which is a more accurate term than "instinctive").
If you're just "bad," pick up a compound.
Don't be embarrassed about gap shooting, it's string walking that folks should be embarrassed about. :)
Doesn't matter if you're amazing or terrible, as long as you're doing your best and having fun! - and hopefully not arrow anyone in the knee...
I started gap shooting this past spring. Not bad, not great. I've been instinctive for my whole archery life. I find that if I practice gap shooting the whole time at the range and then switch to instinctive, I shoot like an archery god; stacking arrows in a 2 inch circle. I don't know if it is my concentrating on form while gap shooting carrying over to make my instinctive better or what.
form, form, form first .... then set gap ... ... then practice good luck
You may want to watch Jake’s NTS method of shooting It break down the cycle into steps…like putting a micro pause between the steps.
You can estimate your gaps easily in 15 minutes…. Your point on is 20 yards ….Move back to 25 yards and shoot 6 arrows with your arrow point on the bullseye …if your arrows group 4 inches low then your gap is 4 inches above the bullseye ! 30 yards maybe you are 16 inches low…Your gap is now 16 inches above at that distance…..Conversely at 15 yards your group may be 6 inches above the bullseye so your gap at that distance would be 6 inches below the bullseye !! Remember when you are doing this at different distances your arrow point is ALWAYS on the bullseye !! Be sure to write down your estimated gaps and keep them in your quiver or on your phone !! Hey the process is easy,fun and deadly accurate !!! Good Luck !!
Your phone has this neet feature called slow motion. First is directly behind you to check arm arrow alignment. Second is face to face to check your release and follow through. A spectacular training tool when you're trying to change aspects of your shooting. Good luck on your journey!
Enjoy exploring Flea. Have a chat to Milly because she has the best technique imo.
it means you do not look exactly along the arrow , try at first to shoot at a vertical string, forghet about up or doun for a moment and concetrate on left an right..shoot at that string until you will manage to align proper
Looked like you were already seeing improvement, despite some form issues.
I'd say that was promising.
Just do what works for you!! Instinctive snobbery is silly ! Truth is out to 20 instinctive is the thing but as the distance grows aiming is critical ! In firearms there is no such thing as instinctive or gap there is only aiming ! It’s all just aiming
Glad you decided to do this, but a repeatable shot cycle is still needed, if not more so now. Gap aiming won't fix lazy form. You're not a bad archer I think you just don't shoot enough arrows every week to be as competitive as want to be now.
Yay! Flea!
You absolutely don't have to close an eye to gap shoot...I keep both open. Also...I don't believe you have to concentrate on the arrow....I stare a hole through the spot I want to hit and the arrow is a blur and I think my tiny brain calculates where I have to hold. I always wished I could shoot truly instinctively and be more of a snap shot shooter but I shot compounds for years so I'm never comfortable shooting until I hold on target for a couple of seconds. I enjoy your channel....thanks for sharing.
That Calvin......
#gapshaming 🤣
There's nothing wrong with learning to gap and aim.. it actually makes your instinctive game sharper✌️And it looks like it's working for you🔥🔥🔥
Good for you!!!
Flea, when they say "Point On". Means at full draw with Point of arrow on the bullseye 🎯. You hit bullseye. If closer to target, ya have to figure out where to hold below target. Further back, ya have to hold put tip of arrow above bullseye. Like you were told, your point on is probably around 30 yds or so. Lots of UA-cam videos explaining the procedure.
I reached the point where I was improving really slowly at instinctive, so i changed to string-walking. So glad I did.
I'm an Ex Instinctive shooter, who now gap shoots.
Can't hurt to give it a try. Possibly improve on your scores...👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Most gap shooters are actually "gapstinctive". Ill explain, just call me when you have time
I agree. When I'm shooting at the range I know my gaps pretty well. At the 3d course I'm not guessing the distance acuratly, I think a short moment where to place my tip and thats it. If i miss i know how to correct.
Greets from Germany 😀
Dont worry there is no such thing as instintive archery its all a learnt response, if it was instinctive you wouldnt need to practice, if you practice a skill you are learning a response , to obtain a result you desire
I thinking about putting a video up. To teach people how to think and shoot instinctive. A lot of people make it to complicative. If any body thinks they would like to see the simple way speak up.
You are way too hard on yourself. No one is that critical of your shooting except you. You can't fix anything until you are less critical( thinking clearly, positve), comfortable and consistent in form and thought. Gotta keep your head in the right place (double meaning intended). "With Winning in Mind" by Lanny Basham for the mental side. Your last ends were excellent! There's always going to be "the one or two arrows ". Aim in the style you enjoy. They all have their range limitations.
Archers give the worse advice. You will not get better if you have no repeatable shot sequence. You’ll keep trying stupid different methods that lead to nowhere but more panic. Right now you can’t even hold @ Anchor.
The fastest way to improve is thru a coach! You learn more in 3 lessons than 10 yrs of stupidity & advice from archers who suck. Seek out Tom Clum, Len Cardinale, Rod Jenkins, Jake Kaminski, Rick McKinney, all qualified coaches here to help! Ingraining bad habits does just that it makes you worse not better. Good luck
Omg the guilt of trying to conform to some kind of Instictive archery ideal. 😂 If you are shooting for IBO/WA 3D you ideally want a 33yd/30m point on as that's your max distance for Trad class. You would also be better shooting at a horizontal line to find your point on. Avoid looking at the point of the arrow any longer than necessary to see where it is in relation to the spot you want to hit. Getting caught up looking at your arrow tip is a path to TP. Once you get used to seeing the point in peripheral vision close to where you need it to be , focus on the spot you want to hit. Both eyes open is better, its more relaxed and closer to sighting rather than aiming. Closing an eye adds tension.
You were hitting your anchor fine. Your left/right spread might not be a spine/tune issue. It might be string blur or string picture related. Once your brain learns where the string blur reference needs to be to be consistently shooting straight you can leave the subconcious to manage that, just like instinctive shooting. Same with your gaps. Once you learn them you simply look at the target and visualise where your arrow needs to go for the arrow to impact where you want. Draw up, set that gap and algnment and then move on with the shot. Don't dwell on aiming, execute a strong shot and finish your follow through. It will take time, not 30 arrows at 20yds. Give it a couple if months at least and expect to suck at it for a while.