Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter. After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
@@jonrotten31 you must have homosexuality on the brain to bring it up so randomly. Perhaps you need to explore your feelings. There's plenty of support out there. Best wishes x
@@phd1313 If you took a moment to read properly what @stevendurrant1724 wrote, perhaps you'd notice that he said "well to the right of *me*". Maybe then you'd make a leap in understanding that he was speaking relatively.
Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter. After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
he's running his own podcast The Rest is Politics and Leading with Alistair Stewart (a Labour guy). While I'm not a conservative by any means, and don't agree with him on many things, I think he's a conservative that one can accept. Worth listening to their podcast...
If all UK politicians had Mr Stewart's (...deep beath...) honesty, pragmatism, modesty, intelligence, empathy, curiosity, sense of duty and sense of humour, then I'd feel a LOT happier every morning.
I had the EXACT same thought. This conversation flew by. I was shocked when I heard the ending music, because I didn’t think the free part of the episode was anywhere near from over!
Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter. After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
I think you mean why America got it wrong. You could even hear Sam bristling a bit at Rory's continued swiping at the hubris of Americans. But he's totally right. A country that prides itself on its isolation from the rest of the world is hardly one to lead it.
America has been the greatest power the world has ever know for the past 70 years. Why? Because you have taken control of the shipping lanes of the world. No country can exist in isolation, no matter how hard the libertarians cry. You're an Empire without an empire. The best of both worlds. It's genius in a way, but China is hot on your heels to be the Empire with an empire that dares not speak its name, much more scary.@user-zt6uu5tw9j
@zootsoot2006 Americans increasingly have no interest in leading it. In some sense, I think you can argue a lot of the general US population never wanted to get into the global position the US it today. They had to be dragged along into it around WW2. Theres so very much to critique about US handling of the Middle East and foreign policy in general. However, it's also very easy to do from the position of people and countries who generally don't have the power and influence level to make such calls.
@user-zt6uu5tw9jAbsolutely, a hostile right wing press that was clearly pushing for Johnson was one of the problems, It seemed clear to me that he was head and shoulders above the other candidates in both terms of professional presentation, fierce intellect and a mind of information on international relations having had a very successful tenure in the foreign service, the army and The secret service.. Maybe we deserve the leaders we get😞
Sam, Afghanistan is a country of disparate mostly uneducated tribes. It has never had a central government. That makes it pretty much impossible to " Nation Build " there.
@@michaelmccomb2594 not necessarily but on a much smaller scale, imagine how different your approach would have to be if to build a bridge you had to instruct every worker on what to do one-on-one versus having a centralised hierarchy. It's easy to see why people just launch straight into constructing a centralised government because it's just infinitely easier if it works - unfortunately in Afghanistan's case it predictably did not work.
@@chrisjones658 it would not have to be a one on one building bridges with every single person, but rather creating 4-8 regional centres of power in Afghanistan. But then the issue of these regional governments all working together considering their vast differences in opinion, culture, politics would inevitably be difficult to manage.
@@michaelmccomb2594 yeah for sure I exaggerated it a lot but my general point as you've also stated was that it's just way easier to build a country around a centralised government. For example, even the most ardent conservative American who was all in on states-rights would agree that government is vital for "some" things like national energy infrastructure and defence. Unfortunately Afghanistan has been ruled by fragmented pseudo-warlords for centuries so they are literally starting from zero and there's no current plan on fixing that country. I could even make the case that they are starting from less than zero and getting to zero (i.e. even getting to a point where the general population wants to progress would be a huge feat). It could literally be a failed state for decades.
@@JamesAgans If he'd run against Boris for PM he would have won. He ran against Boris for leader of the deranged Conservative party. Much harder for an honest man to win that race.
This the episode Rory referenced in his own podcast where he said Sam “would not let it go” regarding how he feels jihadism is more relevant than Rory’s view that radical nationalism is, as threats go. I’ve listened several times now and I’d say that’s a regrettable exaggeration that unjustly maligned Sam. Rory’s a great intellectual and I hope he’ll correct that mis characterization.
Its a shame that the whole free segment was taken up with Rory criticising a position Sam does not hold. He seems to think he is posing counter points, but not realising that they are only countering what he incorrectly presumes Sam, and many of us, think. Surely he realises that when someone criticises violent jihadism, that criticism doesn't extend to peaceful moderate Muslims from any place in the world?
18:00 "Women in these villages had NEVER been more than 3 HOURS WALK from there villages, it was a WONDERFUL,WONDERFUL country" There is something very very off with people like Rory. I get the impression he likes being a novelty in these places. Afghanistan is hell on earth, but somehow, a wonderful place. That makes no sense.
It’s hard not to be cynical about some of what he says. Of course a lot of his observations do feel accurate and well thought out. Just some less so. Maybe cognitive dissonance is a coping mechanism when one hangs out too long in a ‘shit show’/invested much energy in said.
Because of the US ‘invasion’, one whole generation of women were able to experience relative freedom. That’s half the population- now forced back to subservience, dependence and virtual slavery.
I'm doubtful that we could have just kept a light footprint in Afghanistan and support a government friendly to use with just a light footprint. I think our experience in Afghanistan showed that lightly supporting a friendly government leads to that government losing more and more territory. The whole point to the surge was that low numbers of foreign forces weren't enough to stop the slow collapse of the Afghan government.
rorys response to why WW2 wasn't analogous doesn't make sense The United States didn't act as a "midwife" in Japan. We literally rewrote their laws, abolished their state religion and the worship of their empower We even had to write their constitution then shove it down their throat
@@jamescassidy6717 yeah He also states America needs "patience" to midwife these countries, decades of patience We destroyed and rebuilt Germany and Japan in a handful of years I think the real essence is, we no longer have the will to fight, or win He even states America is too "confident" in the superiority of our culture But that can't be true given we aren't taking these measures (that we took in WW2) It doesn't really matter that we have the best military, if there's no will to victory
Afghanistan is geographically so isolated that it will never become a liberal and capitalist country. The US had to import everything it needed to build the roads and the infrastructure. There was simply nothing in Afghanistan. Also Afghanistan doesn't have river systems that would connect villages. That's why all these regions are disconnected from the big city. It makes governance harder, there is no real unity, etc. That also explains why the US spend so much money in Afghanistan. If it was a place like Korea, it would have needed only a few hundred billion dollars to develop. In Korea everyone lives in the same city ^^
I would encourage you to read about what Afghanistan was like in the 1960s and 1970s until the overthrow of the monarchy. While the country was not liberal as Westerners would understand that term or, strictly speaking capitalist (probably closer to neo-feudal with important markets), it was much more similar to Indonesia today (an illiberal republic with distributed power centers and a disproportionately powerful NGO militants).
@@oremfrien I know that already! Afghanistan wasn't liberal or capitalist, but the situation was better than today. But countries like Afghanistan are vulnerable to militant groups. That's why the country constantly returns to old habits. The US tried to modernize Afghanistan. They spent trillions of dollars into infrastructure. Why did it cost so much? Because Afghanistan has nothing! They had to import everything they needed by air! They don't even have real roads. Geographies matter! In the past, you needed transport via water, dense urbanization and cheap access to coal to industrialize. Afghanistan doesn't have that. Today you can overcome a lot through technology and global trade. But it's really expensive if you want to modernize Afghanistan. For example, South Korea has only one major city. Everyone lives there. They have access to the ocean and to different markets. These things make modernization simpler and cheaper.
@@devalapar7878 a bit simplistic and childish comment. Name me a single country that happily developed under the occupation of another country? Nation-building is just a euphemism for modern colonialism.
Every American should listen carefully for a few minutes after 21:07 1) The US was hopelessly idealist in these wars 2) Americans in the ground were not really interested in learning about middle eastern cultures. I get this vibe from even fairly liberal friends in the states. 3) US soldiers were acting like bullies on power trips (just like US police) and this turns the local civilians against you.
The majority of Americans understand this and regret this, but we also want to shove the fact to the world that NOBODY fucking Else besides the UK steps up to the plate to deal with these literally divisive, anti west nations. Sorry but to Americans when "useless" Europeans who have shown to GET zip zilch nada done in the world say things we regrettably get more and more pushed to the right for good reason. This is lamentable for people like me who are Classical Liberal and sit in abhorrence when Trump and Bush are presidents. Frankly when you look at world results, Europe literally is a joke to US, UK in the World Power stage.
I suspect how soldiers acted was heavily influenced by the type of fighting and the environment. I imagine when it's hard to identify who is a civilian and who is a combatant, and when you're dealing with things like IEDs and suicide vests, it breeds anxiety and paranoia. More so than "traditional" state on state conflict.
“It never struck me that you’re particularly empathetic or interested in the manners of other people’s cultures. You give the impression that the US has the right system and everybody should be following an American model”. Well, no shit, Rory.
I recall all too well seeing the "Children's Crusade" that was the Coalition Provisional Authority show up in Baghdad. Mostly Capitol Hill staffers on 12 week resume booster tours running organizations or initiatives with fancy sounding names but were really nothing more than bloviating nonsense. The Iraqi's were like, "What the F....?" All I could do was shrug and try to look sympathetic.
Interesting conversation, interesting guest. Wish I had the wherewithal and desire--given SH's string of insightful yet dangerously lopsided takes on the current Middle East debacle to subscribe. Insightful in the sense of the his take on the problem of Jihadism. Lopsided in his glaring refusal to both-side the Israeli-Hamas conflict. Would've loved to hear Rory Stewart's thoughts on the intersectionality between Arab ultranationalism, patriotism and Jihadism ("cult of martyrdom" to use Sam's quasi-derogatory lingo).
Couldn't agree with you more about Sam's position on the Middle East. Yuval Harari challenged it somewhat in their recent conversation, but It was thoroughly called into question in this episode. And it started at the 30 minute mark, less than a minute after Sam's UA-cam version ended. All other episodes cut out after about half, while this one only made it roughly a third the way through. There's no question this was done intentionally. The question is whether it was Sam's ego that dictated this or his curating of what he wants us to consider. Either he needs to meditate more and get that ego in check or he has to allow his listeners to hear VERY convincing ideas that call his own into question. I appreciate Sam's voice and think it's one of the most important we have but he has a serious bias on this issue leading him astray and I've been waiting a long time for someone to expose this, which Rory really did.
@yiranimal Seriously it made him seem like a shadow of the intelligent person that he is. And the gravitas of Rorys life experience seriously added heft to his words and just made him seem many levels of authority above that I'm really checking how I listen to SH on this topic from now on.
@@genzcurmudgeon8037 Clearly. However, enough of Jihadist rhetoric and insurgency are initially fueled by ultranationalism and thrive under conditions of desperation created or supported by the powers that be and their foreign policy. Now, unlike in the West where the Separation of the Church and the State is clearly delineated, in these Islamic countries, Sharia and Islamic culture either forms the basis of their constitution or is deeply intertwined/integrated into the political reality of both the ruling class and the citizenry (to a minor degree for the former). And the Islamic view of martyrdom doesn't just begin and end with the endless desire for holy wars and suicide bombings. For the moderately religious, martyrdom encompasses, among other things: • Death in the cause of defending your home • Death during childbirth • Death from freak accidents/natural disasters Hence, the invocations to Jihadism may manifest either as fundamentalist wet dreams about a global caliphate, or nationalistic aspirations (for freedom from "infidel invaders"). It is easy to see how these two manifestations can overlap, especially if the blaming finger points in the direction of the West.
@@genzcurmudgeon8037 Clearly. However, it should be noted that conflict, desperation and dispossession mixed with ultranationalism are preconditions for Jihadism (not trying to justify, but explain). Also, unlike in Western and European democracies where the doctrine of Separation of Church and State is clearly delineated, in many Middle Eastern oligarchic autocracies, Sharia law is either the basis of their constitutional law or inextricably woven into the fabric of their political realities. How does this explain Jihadism? The concept of martyrdom in Islam is more than the stereotypical suicide bombing, the fascistic desire for war and wet dreams about a global caliphate. It encompasses--among other things: • Death in the cause of defending one's home/homeland (honor and patriotism in western Army-speak). • Maaternal mortality (during childbirth) • Death from a freak accident/natural disaster With the first instance being relevant to this discussion, it is easy to see how the religious concept of martyrdom can be co-opted with patriotic calls to arms in these societies, especially when the blaming finger points to Western "imperialist infidels". Again, this doesn't discount the dangers of Islamo-fascist fundamentalism as manifest in global Jihadist movement. And I just think Sam Harris being many miles of magnitudes smarter and more erudite than I am should be able to acquiesce these factors without painting a stark, reductive black-and-white dichotomy. P. S: I responded way earlier, yet the comment got deleted. Sorry for the lengthy response.
One of the foundational stories of Judaism is about God telling Abraham to kill his son, then praising him. Secular Jewish people might not have those values, but fundamentalist Jewish people? And watching videos from hospitals in Gaza, it seems like they care about their children a whole lot. If they cared less about their children Hamas would probably be less popular
I remember watching the contest for Prime minister with Rory and not getting any sense of how brilliant he was, its a shame because we would have been lucky to have him as pm
There can be a way to break bias in social media and reduce the power of people with large followers to influence opinion on social media platforms. Similar to comments section, we can add a views (viewpoints or connections or context) section - Where anyone can add any view related to the post and people can like and react to the view just like the post. Context 1/ #keyword combo : specific context to the post in limited words like in twitter Context 2 : Most important part of the context section could be checking the balance b/w different context as a percentage or in a pie chart. This distribution could tell if the discussion is biased or balanced, majorititarian view or nuanced. Multiple inferences could be drawn from the distribution of context, views, sides or connections.
Wonderful guest. Rory a wonderfully intelligent, insightful and measured person and his view on these issues never fails to give me insight on the Middle East. I am glad Sam still has guests on his show that don’t necessarily agree with him. Even if he repeatedly keeps bring up his obsession with Jihadists. Rory clearly shows a lot of Sam’s blind spots when it comes to the complexity of these issues. Hats off to Sam for bringing Rory on and actually having a conversation that has some worth.
Sam is a Zionists empathiser …. Shameful that he was intent on trying to get Rory to condemn Muslims. We don’t know how much good stuff from Rory, in support of Muslims, was cut out. It appears that Sam supports Israel & its Genocide of Palestinians.
My favourite poem about courage: ¶ “Go where those others went to the dark boundary, for the golden fleece of nothingness-your last prize. ¶ Go upright among those on their knees, among those with their backs turned, and those toppled in the dust. ¶ You were saved not in order to live-you have little time-you must give testimony. ¶ Be courageous. When reason fails, be courageous. In the final reckoning, only this counts. ¶ and Anger-your powerless-may it be like the sea whenever you hear the voice of the insulted and beaten. ¶ Let your sister Scorn not leave you-for the informers, executioners, cowards-they _will win._ They will go to your funeral and with relief will throw a lump; the woodborer will write your smoothed-over biography. ¶ And do not forgive. Truly, it is not in your power to forgive in the name of those betrayed at dawn. ¶ Beware however of unnecessary pride. Keep looking at your clown’s face in the mirror. Repeat: “I was called-weren’t there better ones than I?”. ¶ Beware of dryness of heart; love the morning spring, the bird with an unknown name, the winter oak, light on a wall, the splendour of the sky-they don’t need your warm breath-they are there to say: “No one will console you.”. ¶ Be vigilant; when the light on the mountains gives the sign, arise and go as long as blood turns in the breast your dark star. ¶ Repeat old incantations of humanity, fables and legends; because this is how you will attain the good _you will not attain._ Repeat great words, repeat them stubbornly-like those crossing the desert who perished in the sand. ¶ And they will reward you with what they have at hand: with the whip of laughter, with murder on a garbage heap. ¶ Go, because only in this way will you be admitted to the company of cold skulls, to the company of your ancestors: Gilgamesh, Hector, Roland, the defenders of the kingdom without limit and the city of ashes. ¶ Be faithful, go.” - Zbigniew Herbert, _The Envoy of Mr. Cogito_ [ ua-cam.com/video/b2iS36r2YCU/v-deo.html ]
Good episode . I’ll search on give well. Another point: I think the problem with Islam is not so much martyrdom but to be an explicitly a conquering religion.
I think his point on Afghanistan being less hopeless is kinda BS. In 2020, it was already set, we had negotiated our exit the problem was more than the Taliban had decided to not honor that deal and there was no Afghan army.
The AfD Party in Germany is not "Neo-Nazi". They are rightwing yes, but certainly not Nazi. Their main Spokesperson is a lesbian who is married to a Sri Lankan woman, Of all the Party leaders in German politics she would be the first to be forced on a train, so much for "Nazi". Most of the AfD positions would have been right at home in the CDU 15 years ago, the former conservative party which essentially became a second social democrat party shifting to the left under their Chairwoman Angela Merkel. They vacated the conservative space with no existing party at the time to fill that position, until the AfD. They are smeared by the left leaning German state media as rightwing extremists. Don't believe anything the ARD or ZDF tv stations say when it comes to domestic politics.
Rory isn't wrong about a sort of militant nature of the relationship between a populace and police and military and other extensions of the state with Americans. America is one of the most low trust societies in the world (Sometimes for good reason, other times not) because of our founding narrative. It's situationally our super power and our worst weakness. American exceptionalism is real, but it is a sword that cuts both ways.
"Most low trust societies in the world"? Uh, I don't know about that. It's probably one of, if not the lowest trust very rich and developed countries absolutely.
/if there was a reply asking about telegram, i've never used it & am unable to have any confidence wrt the ability of my screens to secure anything much, anyway!
Two of my favourite people to hear talk, talking to each other. Thank you, God that I don't believe in. I only wish it were longer! (And I'm a subscriber!)
Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter. After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
I l have great respect for Sam. More than I do practically any other public figure. But I do think he missed a few very consequential and relevant points, with respect to the problem of Islam. Like, how is it that we have a Nationwide phenomenon in the UK of Muslim grooming gangs? Or that, where slavery exists still why is it always in a Muslim country? Or that, when a girl in Afghanistan is raped, we have many videos of the father being the chief one to stone her? Or similarly that, in these cherished but mismanaged places, very usually by the people themselves, that clitterectomies are still the norm? Sam is so good, far better than me, at arguing against Islam. But being familiar with what Mr Stewart says when in conversation with his Liberal (party name) allies I didnt think he pushed back far enough.
@@mkkrupp2462 I'm a subscriber so I heard it all. Rory conceded that superstition was an element of it I agree, as how could he not.. But given that he us from the UK, as I am, he *should* be painfully aware of the problems we have with only Islam, and I suspect because he has Labour friends he can't ir won't be truly honest about it.
Rory: "the low cost of having a US presence in Afghanistan." Really? 20 years worth of a bargain. Practically free nation building on our part. Fascinating individual, but sugarcoating the US cost for being there is pure BS.
On Rory's comment about the confrontational style of American police, I wonder if this is because US police deal with more violent crime and people with guns compared to other western countries.
No, I don't think so. Why would they want to be rude and confrontational to people who are armed in the first place? There’s more to it than that. I totally agree with his assessment.
@@rdalgeYou don’t get it. When cops in the UK pull someone over they can be almost certain the person doesn’t have a gun. In the US the cops have to assume that the suspect could have a gun and intends to use it. Cops are shot during routine traffic stops in the US. This never happens in UK.
@rdalge you don't think so? You don't think it's easier for a cop to have their guard down when they're operating in a country where it's essentially safe to assume that the person isn't armed with a gun?
Stewarts experienced and insightful. Also perhaps arrogant. Is this arrogance justified? Perhaps. Off putting however- which makes him a failed policy advocate
Just imagine: This person could have been Prime Minister for last few years. Instead, Tory voters (and later, actual, real British people) looked at.............Boris.......Fu***ng......Johnson. And thought "YES! THAT is the person you shall lead us!" Don't anyone ever try to tell me that we Brits are a serious people. Our sense of humour and self deprication is clearly gargantuan.
The Tory party membership choosing Boris over Rory, and then choosing Liz Truss -- it's baffling to the point of self -parody and it would be funny if there weren't utterly dire consequences for the rest of us.
{ Just as God first brought you into being, you will be brought to life again. Some are guided, while others are destined to stray. They have taken devils as their masters instead of God, thinking they are rightly guided.}
17:00 The reason Germany and Japan were able to rebuild their societies was because they were ethnically homogeneous nation-states. Afghanistan and Iraq are the exact opposite. They are jigsaw puzzles of different religions, languages, and ethnicities. Of course they were doomed to fail. Every multi-ethnic Empire that couldn't assimilate it's subjects has failed.
Which is a good argument against multi cultural societies and immigration from countries which have very different cultural ideas and expectations as regards separation of church and State, individual human rights, freedom of expression, gender equality etc etc
I feel like Sam is having his perception of the problem of Islam in particular, which is challenged more and more with good effect. He is right on many things, but one wonders if it's the right thing to focus on necessarily at this moment in history.
@jayteegamble didn't say we should. I'm saying Sam is having his views challenged more and more about it being the centerpiece of his concern by knowledgeable guests lately and this was a good discussion about that topic.
Sam's perspective on this matter is an important one, but Rory did a great job in putting it into perspective. I've always felt that Sam way over-focused on the "motherload of bad ideas" explanation. As Rory points out a lot of atrocities committed come down to nationalism and peoples responding to outside meddling in their countries.
A seriously life experienced educated English man in these areas sort of dampened the heck out of his staple Islam theory. Has he not challenged like this before? Firet time I've heard it sort of politely swatted away and very easily.
Did you walk into a well and get stuck in there for 90m? Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter. After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
Quite disappointed in Rory Stewart tbh - I listened to the whole episode and thought it was a decent conversation. However I listened to the most recent podcast of Rory Stewart’s, The rest is leading, and he referred to Sam as ‘an American podcaster’ who was obsessed with asking him about Islam and then insinuating he was Islamophobic.
Sam IS an American Podcaster …. What’s wrong with that ?? Sam is also an Islamophobe - read some of his books and look at his Zionist connections. Facts are facts.
Don't trust this guy. He sounds briliant, but as a politician he essentially fought for the super wealthy. Look at his voting record, he is like Mitch Mcconnell. The eloquence of his speech does not negate the horror of his actions.
I don’t care how many miles you walked. You are complicit in the crimes against the British working class committed by the party you were a member of. I have nothing but contempt for you.
Lee Strobel converted me from a strong believer to an atheist with his poor arguments. The guest here has given me a strong shove away from nearly every topic he advocated for. Sam had a very unusual tact in this one. This was far more like an interview than a conversation. His response of "hmm" for just about every American foreign policy decision of the last decade left a lot to be desired.
This was one of Sam Harris’ weakest episodes. His challenges to Stewart’s points were often delayed and timid, almost apologetic. He allowed Stewart to characterize everything as ‘nationalism’ and draw ridiculous analogies of Islamic terrorists with supposed Jewish terrorists. At least he could have pointed out that the bombing of the King David Hotel was meant to have zero casualties, and the fact that the phone warnings to evacuate were not heeded was seen as a tragic error. There is no long lineage of religious motivated terrorism springing out of Judaism. He could have also reminded the guest and the listeners that the bombings took place against a backdrop of a British immigration policy that resulted in millions of Jews being murdered in gas chambers rather than taking refuge in Israel. Finally, he could have underlined the absurdity of equating Smotrich with Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. Smotrich is not inciting Jews to kill Palestinian civilians. There aren’t large numbers of Jewish majority countries who believe that the Palestinian infidel is the cause of all the world’s problem. The one Jewish country is not subjugating women, gays, and other groups by the millions. I’m hoping that the weakness of this podcast was due to Sam Harris’ cold/flu and is not an indication of podcasts to come.
I won't be listening to this first 30 minutes - because it is a very inefficient use of anyone's time. It's like watching only the first 30 minutes of a movie.
Good chat. Current events have a lot of us thinking about world order and 'Western Hegemony'. Hubris is a great description, yet the thought of a Russian-Chinese-Iranian world order is frightening, so long may Western hegemony last, for everyones sake.
You mean for your sake. The suffering and inmiseration inflicted on the world since WW ll (Latin america, the caribbean, Asia) by the US would make that inflicted by Russia, China and Iran combined look like a mere footnote.
@@godisbollocks Yes, and Mao Zedong's 40 to 80 million leaves Stalin's in the dust. But who did they inflict this on? Their own people. The OP is peddling Western hegemony i.e. US imperialism as salvation for everyone. There are millions of people around the world who, under US carpet bombing, and the dictators they installed/propped up, are not amused.
Tens of thousands of people have completed the Appalachian Trail for example. Most people take something like 5-7 months to do it and average about 15-20 miles a day. Not to diminish him, just to say it's probably a little more common than you think.
"We did spend the 20 years in Afghanistan, with very little to show for it." - well, yeah, for the reasons explained and because you kept the same social and cultural assumptions throughout. Strangely enough, not everyone wants to be an American, and the US spent more than a decade in Vietnam proving it there too.
Sry dude, fan of Sam, but it's like he doesn't get the whole deglobalization era at all. This has been in the works for a while. Gotta get your Peter Zeihan on bruh.
The podcast is not free, its like one of those internet service providers or streaming platforms that when you want to cancel the button is not activated, so dishonest mm
Rory Stewart, Sam?! Now I'm a Brit and very well aware him. It's very clear now Sam that you are in echo chamber, of all the British people you could get on, you get someone like this. Im going to listen, but I presume you are going to agree on everything.
Finally a british guest who actually understands how important the EU is. It would be good to get his thoughts about that, instead of banking on Douglas Murray's nonsense.
{No one disputes the signs of God except the disbelievers, so do not be deceived by their prosperity throughout the land. Before them, the people of Noah denied it, as did enemy forces afterwards. Every community plotted against its prophet to seize him, and argued in falsehood, to discredit the truth with it. So God seized them. And how was God's punishment? And so your Lord’s decree has been proven true against the disbelievers, that they will be the inmates of the Fire.}
I am going to ask you a question, and I am going to predict the answer you will have pop in your mind at first, and predict that will be a wrong answer. This works on most people and you can try if for yourself on others to see too, its an interesting conversation starter. A bat and a ball together cost 1.10, the bat costs 1.00 more then the ball, how much did the ball cost? You might have an answer of ten cents flash in your head right away with bias inaccurate fast mind but if you check that answer with your slow but more accurate conscious awareness, you can see that answer is wrong but it takes effort to do. The answer of ten cents is not the right answer but most people have that pop in their head because of the fast thinking mind that we rely on most of the time. The fast unconscious mind is taking everything in and trying to make sense of it really fast. Its 11 million bits a second. But sometimes it makes mistakes. The slow conscious mind is 40-50 bits and lazy but it can check things and bringing the unconscious mistake to conscious awareness it can correct it. The next thing to understand is about carl jung and the 4 ways the unconscious complex he called shadow deals with reality. The shadow is an unconscious complex that is defined as the repressed and suppressed aspects of the conscious self. there are constructive and destructive types of shadow. Carl jung emphasized the importance of being aware of shadow material and incorporating it into conscious awareness lest one project these attributes onto others. The human being deals with the reality of shadow in 4 ways. Denial, projection, integration and/or transmutation. Now I believe what is happening when a question that exposes a conflict in a belief, idea, something that someone said, or even about someone they idolize and the question gets avoided, that is the fast unconscious mind going into denial and the response is often a projection. This also can trigger and emotional response activating the amygdala more and the pre frontal cortex less where rational conscious thought is said to happen and the amygdala starts to get the body to flood itself with chemicals/hormones. Its like the fast mind knows conscious awareness will say its wrong. so it blocks it off to defend itself from admitting its wrong. in cases of denial and because it blocked off the rational mind, the responses are often irrational. Like personal attacks do not address the issue or answer the question. I think we can agree people have a very hard time now days admitting when they are wrong, I am not exempt from this myself I do realize. And we can see how badly questions avoidance effects us if you watch political meetings and watch them avoid questions all day long. Ok, so the first thing to go over is denial as that is the main one I expose with questions. A disowning or refusal to acknowledge something I think is a good definition for it here. There is a really good 2 minute video I use as an example of this. A streamer named vegan gains claiming lobsters have brains after some one said he can eat lobsters because they do not have brains. He googles it and starts to read what it says. When he gets to the part where is says neither insects nor lobsters have brains, he skips it and says they literally are insects then skips over that line and continues to read the rest. Just like in the fast thinking video, his fast mind already read that line and refused to acknowledge it in unconscious denial, and just skipped it. The person then tells him he skipped it and he reads it again and sees the line this time. Still being defensive of his claim and refusing to accept he was wrong, he tried to discredit the source and its the lobster institute of maine. If you would like to see the video for yourself its 2 minutes by destiny clips and the video is called " Destiny Reacts To Vegan Gains Ignoring Search Result That Contradicts Him". Justin turdo avoiding the question of how much his family was paid by the we charity 6 times in a row I think is denial as well. I think jordan peterson not being able to answer his own question of does he believe god exists and asking what do and you mean then saying no one knows what any of those words mean while being seemingly angry is think is another really good example of denial... and projection. And while JP find those words difficult, other people understand them easy. Even he does pretty much any other time they are used. So projection is next up. Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings. Many times a mind in denial will use projections for responses. Someone getting mad and telling the other person to not interrupt when they have been doing that a lot themselves would be an example. I have done this myself. The people who tell me I dont understand my own questions and my point is wrong when they do not even know what the point is are all examples as well. I ask them to steel man my position to show then understand my point and they just avoid that question as well clearly showing they do not understand my point. Now we have integration and/or transmutation. Integration is when you bring an unconscious behavior into conscious awareness and accept it. I know that I interrupt people talking sometimes even though I think that is wrong to do. I have a conscious awareness of it, but I have not been able to completely change the behavior.... yet. That is where transmutation comes in. Transmutation is to completely change that unconscious behavior. From being impatient to being patient, of from distrust to trust, hate into understanding and love even. So was this understandable or confusing? if you understand it, do you think its possibly true? Do you have any questions? If you have any tips I am would gladly listen.
divine central authority unity with substantive human rights choice is international law, which is being violated by UN political government / two state solution
{No soul can imagine what delights are kept in store for them as a reward for what they used to do. Is the one who is a believer equal before God to the rebellious one? They are not equal! As for those who believe and do good, they will have the Gardens of Eternal Residence as an accommodation for what they used to do. But as for those who are rebellious, the Fire will be their home. Whenever they try to escape from it, they will be forced back into it and told, Taste the Fire’s torment, which you used to deny.}
should ask him about Brad Pitt buying the rights to make a movie about his life - he is the forest gump of politicians in the way he seems to have done so many different things in such a short time - he is very impressive!
{Be not deceived by the mercantilistic wanderings of the unbelievers, on earth. Because it is a transitory enjoyment, and its abode will be hell. What a dismal abode. But those who feared their Lord will have gardens beneath which rivers flow, abiding eternally therein, as accommodation from God. And that which is with God is best for the righteous. And indeed, among the People of the Scripture are those who believe in God and what was revealed to you (O Mohammed, Messenger of God), and what was revealed to them, being humbly submissive to God. They do not exchange the verses of God for a small price. Those will have their reward with their Lord. Indeed, God is swift in account. O you who have believed, persevere, endure, be patient, be ever vigilant, and fear God so that you will succeed and prosper.}
Sam Harris and Rory Stewart - brilliant.
Two of my favourite commentators - the Tories lost an honest and sensible man when he left them.
Yes.
Agree!
Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter.
After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
Glad more outside the UK will hear Rory. He’s well to the right of me, but a truly good guy with so much knowledge of the Middle East and politics.
Gay
@@jonrotten31 you must have homosexuality on the brain to bring it up so randomly. Perhaps you need to explore your feelings. There's plenty of support out there. Best wishes x
@@stevendurrant1724 bit passive aggressive. Sheesh
He's on the right?! 😂 where are you: flying hand in hand with islam on a pink elephant drinking soy Milk?😂😂
@@phd1313 If you took a moment to read properly what @stevendurrant1724 wrote, perhaps you'd notice that he said "well to the right of *me*". Maybe then you'd make a leap in understanding that he was speaking relatively.
This guest is outstanding
No. He's a moral relativist and an islam apologet. Seems Sam Harris lost his critical sense here for some reason.
Take all the same words, but put them in the mouth of a young blogger that quotes chomsky and you get a different response from Sam here.
Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter.
After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
he's running his own podcast The Rest is Politics and Leading with Alistair Stewart (a Labour guy). While I'm not a conservative by any means, and don't agree with him on many things, I think he's a conservative that one can accept.
Worth listening to their podcast...
If all UK politicians had Mr Stewart's (...deep beath...) honesty, pragmatism, modesty, intelligence, empathy, curiosity, sense of duty and sense of humour, then I'd feel a LOT happier every morning.
I think it’s becoming more and more not possible to not be a member. This episode is going to force me to subscribe!
I’d love to and used to but to be honest, I’m pretty sick of so many separate subscription services.
Same
I had the EXACT same thought. This conversation flew by. I was shocked when I heard the ending music, because I didn’t think the free part of the episode was anywhere near from over!
@@daveb3987 You can apply for a free memebership if you don't want to pay for it.
My thoughts exactly.
For me, this is easily the best episode of the last 6-12 months.
Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter.
After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
Agree. Fantastic content.
I love Rory‘s podcast. He’s a fascinating person.
Rory Stewart shines a light on why western nations got it wrong in trying to help developing nations find their feet.
"Underdeveloped". I don't believe we can do that to developing countries of the 21st century.
I think you mean why America got it wrong. You could even hear Sam bristling a bit at Rory's continued swiping at the hubris of Americans. But he's totally right. A country that prides itself on its isolation from the rest of the world is hardly one to lead it.
America has been the greatest power the world has ever know for the past 70 years. Why? Because you have taken control of the shipping lanes of the world. No country can exist in isolation, no matter how hard the libertarians cry. You're an Empire without an empire. The best of both worlds. It's genius in a way, but China is hot on your heels to be the Empire with an empire that dares not speak its name, much more scary.@user-zt6uu5tw9j
And is the light pointing up his butt?
@zootsoot2006 Americans increasingly have no interest in leading it. In some sense, I think you can argue a lot of the general US population never wanted to get into the global position the US it today. They had to be dragged along into it around WW2. Theres so very much to critique about US handling of the Middle East and foreign policy in general. However, it's also very easy to do from the position of people and countries who generally don't have the power and influence level to make such calls.
Best PM we never had! What a missed opportunity😩
To think that clown Boris Johnson beat him to the top job!! Unfathomable
Yeah, he's the Brian Clough of Westminster politics ;)
@user-zt6uu5tw9jAbsolutely, a hostile right wing press that was clearly pushing for Johnson was one of the problems, It seemed clear to me that he was head and shoulders above the other candidates in both terms of professional presentation, fierce intellect and a mind of information on international relations having had a very successful tenure in the foreign service, the army and The secret service.. Maybe we deserve the leaders we get😞
Sam, Afghanistan is a country of disparate mostly uneducated tribes. It has never had a central government. That makes it pretty much impossible to
" Nation Build " there.
Does national building necessarily need a strong centralised government?
@@michaelmccomb2594 not necessarily but on a much smaller scale, imagine how different your approach would have to be if to build a bridge you had to instruct every worker on what to do one-on-one versus having a centralised hierarchy. It's easy to see why people just launch straight into constructing a centralised government because it's just infinitely easier if it works - unfortunately in Afghanistan's case it predictably did not work.
@@chrisjones658 it would not have to be a one on one building bridges with every single person, but rather creating 4-8 regional centres of power in Afghanistan. But then the issue of these regional governments all working together considering their vast differences in opinion, culture, politics would inevitably be difficult to manage.
@@michaelmccomb2594 yeah for sure I exaggerated it a lot but my general point as you've also stated was that it's just way easier to build a country around a centralised government. For example, even the most ardent conservative American who was all in on states-rights would agree that government is vital for "some" things like national energy infrastructure and defence.
Unfortunately Afghanistan has been ruled by fragmented pseudo-warlords for centuries so they are literally starting from zero and there's no current plan on fixing that country. I could even make the case that they are starting from less than zero and getting to zero (i.e. even getting to a point where the general population wants to progress would be a huge feat).
It could literally be a failed state for decades.
That's what I always used to say during those days. You can't have a democracy without a 'demos'.
Great, 2 great men. Love Rory, he's 100% genuine, he was our local MP in Cumbria
Why didn't you elect him PM? Boris ( I lost my comb) Johnson beat this OBVIOUSLY superior candidate?
@@JamesAgans you obviously don't know how our electoral system works. I'd have loved it if he'd been our PM
@@JamesAgans If he'd run against Boris for PM he would have won. He ran against Boris for leader of the deranged Conservative party.
Much harder for an honest man to win that race.
If waterboarding is not an option, this podcast might get answers.
@@JamesAgans the leadership race for the Tories was not a public vote.
This the episode Rory referenced in his own podcast where he said Sam “would not let it go” regarding how he feels jihadism is more relevant than Rory’s view that radical nationalism is, as threats go.
I’ve listened several times now and I’d say that’s a regrettable exaggeration that unjustly maligned Sam. Rory’s a great intellectual and I hope he’ll correct that mis characterization.
Rory Stewart is one of those sensible humans who have the ability to make great changes in world politcs if given the chance
He's clearly very educated and intelligent. Perhaps even has a moral compass. Not the type to make sweeping changes, though.
Its a shame that the whole free segment was taken up with Rory criticising a position Sam does not hold. He seems to think he is posing counter points, but not realising that they are only countering what he incorrectly presumes Sam, and many of us, think.
Surely he realises that when someone criticises violent jihadism, that criticism doesn't extend to peaceful moderate Muslims from any place in the world?
If only Rory had won the Tory leadership, what a very different country we might have
Harris has phenomenal guests!!
He does. This Episode must have been a satirical parody. Drivel.
18:00
"Women in these villages had NEVER been more than 3 HOURS WALK from there villages, it was a WONDERFUL,WONDERFUL country"
There is something very very off with people like Rory. I get the impression he likes being a novelty in these places. Afghanistan is hell on earth, but somehow, a wonderful place. That makes no sense.
It’s hard not to be cynical about some of what he says.
Of course a lot of his observations do feel accurate and well thought out. Just some less so.
Maybe cognitive dissonance is a coping mechanism when one hangs out too long in a ‘shit show’/invested much energy in said.
It's called nuance.
@@yiranimal Yes…and nuance is energy intensive, often gets one in the shit. A lonely endeavour.
By its very nature: a non persuasion tool.
I think Rory just tends to be polite like that.
Because of the US ‘invasion’, one whole generation of women were able to experience relative freedom. That’s half the population- now forced back to subservience, dependence and virtual slavery.
I'm doubtful that we could have just kept a light footprint in Afghanistan and support a government friendly to use with just a light footprint. I think our experience in Afghanistan showed that lightly supporting a friendly government leads to that government losing more and more territory. The whole point to the surge was that low numbers of foreign forces weren't enough to stop the slow collapse of the Afghan government.
Nice to see Rory breaking out of his bubble a bit. Be even nicer if he did it in his own podcast which I’ve now sadly entirely given up on!
rorys response to why WW2 wasn't analogous doesn't make sense
The United States didn't act as a "midwife" in Japan. We literally rewrote their laws, abolished their state religion and the worship of their empower
We even had to write their constitution then shove it down their throat
We gave Germany their foreign policy at gunpoint too.
@@jamescassidy6717 yeah
He also states America needs "patience" to midwife these countries, decades of patience
We destroyed and rebuilt Germany and Japan in a handful of years
I think the real essence is, we no longer have the will to fight, or win
He even states America is too "confident" in the superiority of our culture
But that can't be true given we aren't taking these measures (that we took in WW2)
It doesn't really matter that we have the best military, if there's no will to victory
@@jesuschristsupersta1 I reckon the Brits felt their culture to be superior for a great length of time too.
@@mkkrupp2462 they were correct
You didn't listen to the podcast.
His podcast "the rest is politics" is great :)
ayyy was hoping for this crossover, will you go on rest is politics also I hope?
Afghanistan is geographically so isolated that it will never become a liberal and capitalist country. The US had to import everything it needed to build the roads and the infrastructure. There was simply nothing in Afghanistan.
Also Afghanistan doesn't have river systems that would connect villages. That's why all these regions are disconnected from the big city. It makes governance harder, there is no real unity, etc.
That also explains why the US spend so much money in Afghanistan. If it was a place like Korea, it would have needed only a few hundred billion dollars to develop. In Korea everyone lives in the same city ^^
I would encourage you to read about what Afghanistan was like in the 1960s and 1970s until the overthrow of the monarchy. While the country was not liberal as Westerners would understand that term or, strictly speaking capitalist (probably closer to neo-feudal with important markets), it was much more similar to Indonesia today (an illiberal republic with distributed power centers and a disproportionately powerful NGO militants).
@@oremfrien I know that already!
Afghanistan wasn't liberal or capitalist, but the situation was better than today. But countries like Afghanistan are vulnerable to militant groups. That's why the country constantly returns to old habits.
The US tried to modernize Afghanistan. They spent trillions of dollars into infrastructure. Why did it cost so much? Because Afghanistan has nothing! They had to import everything they needed by air! They don't even have real roads.
Geographies matter! In the past, you needed transport via water, dense urbanization and cheap access to coal to industrialize. Afghanistan doesn't have that.
Today you can overcome a lot through technology and global trade. But it's really expensive if you want to modernize Afghanistan. For example, South Korea has only one major city. Everyone lives there. They have access to the ocean and to different markets. These things make modernization simpler and cheaper.
@@devalapar7878 a bit simplistic and childish comment. Name me a single country that happily developed under the occupation of another country? Nation-building is just a euphemism for modern colonialism.
@@HaggardPillockHD Japan and Germany? South Korea, Hong Kong, ...
Every American should listen carefully for a few minutes after 21:07
1) The US was hopelessly idealist in these wars
2) Americans in the ground were not really interested in learning about middle eastern cultures. I get this vibe from even fairly liberal friends in the states.
3) US soldiers were acting like bullies on power trips (just like US police) and this turns the local civilians against you.
The majority of Americans understand this and regret this, but we also want to shove the fact to the world that NOBODY fucking Else besides the UK steps up to the plate to deal with these literally divisive, anti west nations. Sorry but to Americans when "useless" Europeans who have shown to GET zip zilch nada done in the world say things we regrettably get more and more pushed to the right for good reason. This is lamentable for people like me who are Classical Liberal and sit in abhorrence when Trump and Bush are presidents. Frankly when you look at world results, Europe literally is a joke to US, UK in the World Power stage.
I suspect how soldiers acted was heavily influenced by the type of fighting and the environment. I imagine when it's hard to identify who is a civilian and who is a combatant, and when you're dealing with things like IEDs and suicide vests, it breeds anxiety and paranoia. More so than "traditional" state on state conflict.
If the Chinese ever get a mind to go into Afghanistan, you will see nation building. They dont play around.
they would build miles of re education camps
“It never struck me that you’re particularly empathetic or interested in the manners of other people’s cultures. You give the impression that the US has the right system and everybody should be following an American model”. Well, no shit, Rory.
Brilliant man.
I recall all too well seeing the "Children's Crusade" that was the Coalition Provisional Authority show up in Baghdad. Mostly Capitol Hill staffers on 12 week resume booster tours running organizations or initiatives with fancy sounding names but were really nothing more than bloviating nonsense. The Iraqi's were like, "What the F....?" All I could do was shrug and try to look sympathetic.
Nice analogy
Interesting conversation, interesting guest. Wish I had the wherewithal and desire--given SH's string of insightful yet dangerously lopsided takes on the current Middle East debacle to subscribe. Insightful in the sense of the his take on the problem of Jihadism. Lopsided in his glaring refusal to both-side the Israeli-Hamas conflict.
Would've loved to hear Rory Stewart's thoughts on the intersectionality between Arab ultranationalism, patriotism and Jihadism ("cult of martyrdom" to use Sam's quasi-derogatory lingo).
Couldn't agree with you more about Sam's position on the Middle East. Yuval Harari challenged it somewhat in their recent conversation, but It was thoroughly called into question in this episode. And it started at the 30 minute mark, less than a minute after Sam's UA-cam version ended.
All other episodes cut out after about half, while this one only made it roughly a third the way through. There's no question this was done intentionally. The question is whether it was Sam's ego that dictated this or his curating of what he wants us to consider. Either he needs to meditate more and get that ego in check or he has to allow his listeners to hear VERY convincing ideas that call his own into question. I appreciate Sam's voice and think it's one of the most important we have but he has a serious bias on this issue leading him astray and I've been waiting a long time for someone to expose this, which Rory really did.
@yiranimal Seriously it made him seem like a shadow of the intelligent person that he is. And the gravitas of Rorys life experience seriously added heft to his words and just made him seem many levels of authority above that I'm really checking how I listen to SH on this topic from now on.
What are y’all on about?
Jihad is a serious problem.
@@genzcurmudgeon8037
Clearly. However, enough of Jihadist rhetoric and insurgency are initially fueled by ultranationalism and thrive under conditions of desperation created or supported by the powers that be and their foreign policy. Now, unlike in the West where the Separation of the Church and the State is clearly delineated, in these Islamic countries, Sharia and Islamic culture either forms the basis of their constitution or is deeply intertwined/integrated into the political reality of both the ruling class and the citizenry (to a minor degree for the former). And the Islamic view of martyrdom doesn't just begin and end with the endless desire for holy wars and suicide bombings. For the moderately religious, martyrdom encompasses, among other things:
• Death in the cause of defending your home
• Death during childbirth
• Death from freak accidents/natural disasters
Hence, the invocations to Jihadism may manifest either as fundamentalist wet dreams about a global caliphate, or nationalistic aspirations (for freedom from "infidel invaders"). It is easy to see how these two manifestations can overlap, especially if the blaming finger points in the direction of the West.
@@genzcurmudgeon8037
Clearly. However, it should be noted that conflict, desperation and dispossession mixed with ultranationalism are preconditions for Jihadism (not trying to justify, but explain).
Also, unlike in Western and European democracies where the doctrine of Separation of Church and State is clearly delineated, in many Middle Eastern oligarchic autocracies, Sharia law is either the basis of their constitutional law or inextricably woven into the fabric of their political realities.
How does this explain Jihadism? The concept of martyrdom in Islam is more than the stereotypical suicide bombing, the fascistic desire for war and wet dreams about a global caliphate. It encompasses--among other things:
• Death in the cause of defending one's home/homeland (honor and patriotism in western Army-speak).
• Maaternal mortality (during childbirth)
• Death from a freak accident/natural disaster
With the first instance being relevant to this discussion, it is easy to see how the religious concept of martyrdom can be co-opted with patriotic calls to arms in these societies, especially when the blaming finger points to Western "imperialist infidels".
Again, this doesn't discount the dangers of Islamo-fascist fundamentalism as manifest in global Jihadist movement. And I just think Sam Harris being many miles of magnitudes smarter and more erudite than I am should be able to acquiesce these factors without painting a stark, reductive black-and-white dichotomy.
P. S: I responded way earlier, yet the comment got deleted. Sorry for the lengthy response.
This was great. I do a lot of walking and am very impressed with his achievements.
Rory is one of the few Tory's worth listening to
I agree, I'd also add Micheal Heseltine and Ken Clarke.
you just did that for the rhyme
"We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us” Golda Meir
Racist comment from Meir
🤢
Sick comment. Dehumanising. Failing to take any responsibility for the impact of her actions and her states actions.
@@charlespirate1 it's a Sam Harris fan. Quelle surprise?
One of the foundational stories of Judaism is about God telling Abraham to kill his son, then praising him. Secular Jewish people might not have those values, but fundamentalist Jewish people? And watching videos from hospitals in Gaza, it seems like they care about their children a whole lot. If they cared less about their children Hamas would probably be less popular
I remember watching the contest for Prime minister with Rory and not getting any sense of how brilliant he was, its a shame because we would have been lucky to have him as pm
There can be a way to break bias in social media and reduce the power of people with large followers to influence opinion on social media platforms.
Similar to comments section, we can add a views (viewpoints or connections or context) section -
Where anyone can add any view related to the post and people can like and react to the view just like the post.
Context 1/ #keyword combo : specific context to the post in limited words like in twitter
Context 2 :
Most important part of the context section could be checking the balance b/w different context as a percentage or in a pie chart. This distribution could tell if the discussion is biased or balanced, majorititarian view or nuanced. Multiple inferences could be drawn from the distribution of context, views, sides or connections.
Wonderful guest.
Rory a wonderfully intelligent, insightful and measured person and his view on these issues never fails to give me insight on the Middle East.
I am glad Sam still has guests on his show that don’t necessarily agree with him. Even if he repeatedly keeps bring up his obsession with Jihadists.
Rory clearly shows a lot of Sam’s blind spots when it comes to the complexity of these issues.
Hats off to Sam for bringing Rory on and actually having a conversation that has some worth.
I needed to hear this Islam rebuttal,, I have to admit I would have filed Sam's opinions on that away as a good point. I'm taking Rorys now!
Sam is a Zionists empathiser …. Shameful that he was intent on trying to get Rory to condemn Muslims. We don’t know how much good stuff from Rory, in support of Muslims, was cut out. It appears that Sam supports Israel & its Genocide of Palestinians.
Courage. For me, these important philosophical questions begin with courage
My favourite poem about courage:
¶
“Go where those others went to the dark boundary, for the golden fleece of nothingness-your last prize.
¶
Go upright among those on their knees, among those with their backs turned, and those toppled in the dust.
¶
You were saved not in order to live-you have little time-you must give testimony.
¶
Be courageous. When reason fails, be courageous. In the final reckoning, only this counts.
¶
and Anger-your powerless-may it be like the sea whenever you hear the voice of the insulted and beaten.
¶
Let your sister Scorn not leave you-for the informers, executioners, cowards-they _will win._ They will go to your funeral and with relief will throw a lump; the woodborer will write your smoothed-over biography.
¶
And do not forgive. Truly, it is not in your power to forgive in the name of those betrayed at dawn.
¶
Beware however of unnecessary pride. Keep looking at your clown’s face in the mirror. Repeat: “I was called-weren’t there better ones than I?”.
¶
Beware of dryness of heart; love the morning spring, the bird with an unknown name, the winter oak, light on a wall, the splendour of the sky-they don’t need your warm breath-they are there to say: “No one will console you.”.
¶
Be vigilant; when the light on the mountains gives the sign, arise and go as long as blood turns in the breast your dark star.
¶
Repeat old incantations of humanity, fables and legends; because this is how you will attain the good _you will not attain._ Repeat great words, repeat them stubbornly-like those crossing the desert who perished in the sand.
¶
And they will reward you with what they have at hand: with the whip of laughter, with murder on a garbage heap.
¶
Go, because only in this way will you be admitted to the company of cold skulls, to the company of your ancestors: Gilgamesh, Hector, Roland, the defenders of the kingdom without limit and the city of ashes.
¶
Be faithful, go.” - Zbigniew Herbert, _The Envoy of Mr. Cogito_
[ ua-cam.com/video/b2iS36r2YCU/v-deo.html ]
Good episode . I’ll search on give well. Another point: I think the problem with Islam is not so much martyrdom but to be an explicitly a conquering religion.
Reading Rory’s latest book at the moment. Great read.
In many countries the choice is between a secular dictatorship and an Islamist dictatorship. Take your pick.
I think his point on Afghanistan being less hopeless is kinda BS. In 2020, it was already set, we had negotiated our exit the problem was more than the Taliban had decided to not honor that deal and there was no Afghan army.
It is said we get the political leaders we deserve...
This was a really interesting episode.
The AfD Party in Germany is not "Neo-Nazi". They are rightwing yes, but certainly not Nazi. Their main Spokesperson is a lesbian who is married to a Sri Lankan woman, Of all the Party leaders in German politics she would be the first to be forced on a train, so much for "Nazi". Most of the AfD positions would have been right at home in the CDU 15 years ago, the former conservative party which essentially became a second social democrat party shifting to the left under their Chairwoman Angela Merkel. They vacated the conservative space with no existing party at the time to fill that position, until the AfD. They are smeared by the left leaning German state media as rightwing extremists. Don't believe anything the ARD or ZDF tv stations say when it comes to domestic politics.
If you want to know what true oratory and charm are, look up Rory’s speech to Parliament about hedgehogs.
Rory isn't wrong about a sort of militant nature of the relationship between a populace and police and military and other extensions of the state with Americans. America is one of the most low trust societies in the world (Sometimes for good reason, other times not) because of our founding narrative. It's situationally our super power and our worst weakness. American exceptionalism is real, but it is a sword that cuts both ways.
Exceptionalism = narcissism on a national scale, and its usefulness has long since expired
@@gking407 Nationalism hasn't long since expired, but you'd know that if you were old enough to vote
@@Grassroots_Hegemon I said it’s no longer useful, which you would know if you could read
@gking407 Quick question, what happens if you are exceptional in a domain? Os it narcissistic then or is it just acknowledging a truth?
"Most low trust societies in the world"? Uh, I don't know about that. It's probably one of, if not the lowest trust very rich and developed countries absolutely.
we need a 'rory posing under a random tree with sad face' emoji
/if there was a reply asking about telegram, i've never used it & am unable to have any confidence wrt the ability of my screens to secure anything much, anyway!
Two of my favourite people to hear talk, talking to each other. Thank you, God that I don't believe in. I only wish it were longer! (And I'm a subscriber!)
I would rather be waterboarded than listen to even another minute of this.
This drivel me jealous of Van Gogh.
Great conversation.
This was such an incredibly important episode. An amazing, very informative, and educational chat.
Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter.
After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
I l have great respect for Sam. More than I do practically any other public figure. But I do think he missed a few very consequential and relevant points, with respect to the problem of Islam.
Like, how is it that we have a Nationwide phenomenon in the UK of Muslim grooming gangs? Or that, where slavery exists still why is it always in a Muslim country? Or that, when a girl in Afghanistan is raped, we have many videos of the father being the chief one to stone her? Or similarly that, in these cherished but mismanaged places, very usually by the people themselves, that clitterectomies are still the norm?
Sam is so good, far better than me, at arguing against Islam. But being familiar with what Mr Stewart says when in conversation with his Liberal (party name) allies I didnt think he pushed back far enough.
Apparently Sam did push back heavily in the remainder of the interview which is not available without subscription.
@@mkkrupp2462 I'm a subscriber so I heard it all. Rory conceded that superstition was an element of it I agree, as how could he not..
But given that he us from the UK, as I am, he *should* be painfully aware of the problems we have with only Islam, and I suspect because he has Labour friends he can't ir won't be truly honest about it.
Rory: "the low cost of having a US presence in Afghanistan." Really? 20 years worth of a bargain. Practically free nation building on our part. Fascinating individual, but sugarcoating the US cost for being there is pure BS.
The couple thousand troops that were left by that time were not costing that much. Rory's not saying the project wasn't costly overall
omg this is a dream crossover for me! thanks guys!!!!!
Nightmare for me. Pass
On Rory's comment about the confrontational style of American police, I wonder if this is because US police deal with more violent crime and people with guns compared to other western countries.
No, I don't think so. Why would they want to be rude and confrontational to people who are armed in the first place? There’s more to it than that. I totally agree with his assessment.
That's part of it. The other part is that it's a culture that glorifies violence.
@@rdalgeYou ever interact with an American police officer?
@@rdalgeYou don’t get it. When cops in the UK pull someone over they can be almost certain the person doesn’t have a gun.
In the US the cops have to assume that the suspect could have a gun and intends to use it.
Cops are shot during routine traffic stops in the US. This never happens in UK.
@rdalge you don't think so? You don't think it's easier for a cop to have their guard down when they're operating in a country where it's essentially safe to assume that the person isn't armed with a gun?
Two of my favourite people - thrilled that they've had this conversation!
Sam, you should really go on the Rest is Politics and try to explain your position on islamic extremism. It is subject that is often avoided in the UK
I suppose Rory would suggest the same approach to Hamas ... Which won't work either.. but a good conversation.
Yeah his deemphasis on Jihadism was fairly disturbed
Stewarts experienced and insightful. Also perhaps arrogant. Is this arrogance justified? Perhaps. Off putting however- which makes him a failed policy advocate
Just imagine: This person could have been Prime Minister for last few years.
Instead, Tory voters (and later, actual, real British people) looked at.............Boris.......Fu***ng......Johnson. And thought "YES! THAT is the person you shall lead us!"
Don't anyone ever try to tell me that we Brits are a serious people. Our sense of humour and self deprication is clearly gargantuan.
The Tory party membership choosing Boris over Rory, and then choosing Liz Truss -- it's baffling to the point of self -parody and it would be funny if there weren't utterly dire consequences for the rest of us.
Turns out Brits want to be entertained just like Americans do. I see your Boris and raise you a W, Trump and Schwarzenegger.
@@twntwrs I wasn't really paying attention during Schwarzenegger. He was at least sane, wasn't he?
@@Sapfu100 I was referring more to the vaudevillian aspect. I could've included Reagan in that lineup.
{ Just as God first brought you into being, you will be brought to life again.
Some are guided, while others are destined to stray.
They have taken devils as their masters instead of God, thinking they are rightly guided.}
"The need for "charities" is a consequence of a failed economic/political/religious system." Testa
Imagine the UK we could have had if Rory had won.
He's still a Tory - but we'd be a lot richer and a lot more secure than we are through Boris and Truss
The guest has a very relativistic politician’s non-answer to the theocratic motivation of jihad
17:00 The reason Germany and Japan were able to rebuild their societies was because they were ethnically homogeneous nation-states. Afghanistan and Iraq are the exact opposite. They are jigsaw puzzles of different religions, languages, and ethnicities. Of course they were doomed to fail. Every multi-ethnic Empire that couldn't assimilate it's subjects has failed.
Which is a good argument against multi cultural societies and immigration from countries which have very different cultural ideas and expectations as regards separation of church and State, individual human rights, freedom of expression, gender equality etc etc
I feel like Sam is having his perception of the problem of Islam in particular, which is challenged more and more with good effect. He is right on many things, but one wonders if it's the right thing to focus on necessarily at this moment in history.
Islam is a terrible, terrible set of ideas. We need to not treat it with kid gloves.
@jayteegamble didn't say we should. I'm saying Sam is having his views challenged more and more about it being the centerpiece of his concern by knowledgeable guests lately and this was a good discussion about that topic.
Sam's perspective on this matter is an important one, but Rory did a great job in putting it into perspective. I've always felt that Sam way over-focused on the "motherload of bad ideas" explanation. As Rory points out a lot of atrocities committed come down to nationalism and peoples responding to outside meddling in their countries.
These kind of disagreements can be constructive
A seriously life experienced educated English man in these areas sort of dampened the heck out of his staple Islam theory. Has he not challenged like this before? Firet time I've heard it sort of politely swatted away and very easily.
Thanks.
I agree with the other commenters, great episode, had a good 1.5 hour walk with it.
Did you walk into a well and get stuck in there for 90m?
Rory is a vapid gas giant on par with Jupiter.
After an HOUR of listening (on his website) I could Not take Anymore of his vapid nonsensical verbal vomit dressed up in a shiny British accent to make a shit cake seem palatable. Profoundly disappointing. Where do I reclaim my IQ points?
What a beautiful voice Rory has.
Quite disappointed in Rory Stewart tbh - I listened to the whole episode and thought it was a decent conversation. However I listened to the most recent podcast of Rory Stewart’s, The rest is leading, and he referred to Sam as ‘an American podcaster’ who was obsessed with asking him about Islam and then insinuating he was Islamophobic.
Sam IS an American Podcaster …. What’s wrong with that ?? Sam is also an Islamophobe - read some of his books and look at his Zionist connections. Facts are facts.
@@mbrown2828Islamophobia is a term created by fascists, used by cowards to manipulate morons
Don't trust this guy. He sounds briliant, but as a politician he essentially fought for the super wealthy. Look at his voting record, he is like Mitch Mcconnell. The eloquence of his speech does not negate the horror of his actions.
Not sure what gets cut from this version, but in the full cast, Sam's blinkered views on "Muslim = bad" get schooled
I have never heard someone so passive aggressive and strange as Rory Stewart. He hesitates prior to every word and then says something stupid!
I don’t care how many miles you walked. You are complicit in the crimes against the British working class committed by the party you were a member of. I have nothing but contempt for you.
Lee Strobel converted me from a strong believer to an atheist with his poor arguments.
The guest here has given me a strong shove away from nearly every topic he advocated for.
Sam had a very unusual tact in this one. This was far more like an interview than a conversation. His response of "hmm" for just about every American foreign policy decision of the last decade left a lot to be desired.
This was one of Sam Harris’ weakest episodes. His challenges to Stewart’s points were often delayed and timid, almost apologetic. He allowed Stewart to characterize everything as ‘nationalism’ and draw ridiculous analogies of Islamic terrorists with supposed Jewish terrorists. At least he could have pointed out that the bombing of the King David Hotel was meant to have zero casualties, and the fact that the phone warnings to evacuate were not heeded was seen as a tragic error. There is no long lineage of religious motivated terrorism springing out of Judaism. He could have also reminded the guest and the listeners that the bombings took place against a backdrop of a British immigration policy that resulted in millions of Jews being murdered in gas chambers rather than taking refuge in Israel. Finally, he could have underlined the absurdity of equating Smotrich with Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. Smotrich is not inciting Jews to kill Palestinian civilians. There aren’t large numbers of Jewish majority countries who believe that the Palestinian infidel is the cause of all the world’s problem. The one Jewish country is not subjugating women, gays, and other groups by the millions. I’m hoping that the weakness of this podcast was due to Sam Harris’ cold/flu and is not an indication of podcasts to come.
What totally misguided and truly racists comments towards Muslims. 🤮
I won't be listening to this first 30 minutes - because it is a very inefficient use of anyone's time. It's like watching only the first 30 minutes of a movie.
Wisdom
Think what a better world we would have if this man had beaten Boris for the uk premiership. We can only hope he chooses to return to politics.
Good chat. Current events have a lot of us thinking about world order and 'Western Hegemony'. Hubris is a great description, yet the thought of a Russian-Chinese-Iranian world order is frightening, so long may Western hegemony last, for everyones sake.
You mean for your sake. The suffering and inmiseration inflicted on the world since WW ll (Latin america, the caribbean, Asia) by the US would make that inflicted by Russia, China and Iran combined look like a mere footnote.
@@twntwrswould you by any chance be a college professor?
@@sergeantx1 why, because of the "footnote" reference? Lol.
@twntwrs I think Stalin's body count alone has any western military misadventures in the 20th century whooped
@@godisbollocks Yes, and Mao Zedong's 40 to 80 million leaves Stalin's in the dust. But who did they inflict this on? Their own people. The OP is peddling Western hegemony i.e. US imperialism as salvation for everyone. There are millions of people around the world who, under US carpet bombing, and the dictators they installed/propped up, are not amused.
Yes!!
Sam, you should have gotten Rory to check your last podcast before you posted it
I feel like Rory is slightly underestimating the unique power of Islam in encouraging violence among its adherents.
Imagine walking 25 or 30 miles every day for months on end. Hard core.
Tens of thousands of people have completed the Appalachian Trail for example. Most people take something like 5-7 months to do it and average about 15-20 miles a day.
Not to diminish him, just to say it's probably a little more common than you think.
Oh no, I had hoped it might have been a different Rory Stewart.
What a damp rag this man is.
"We did spend the 20 years in Afghanistan, with very little to show for it." - well, yeah, for the reasons explained and because you kept the same social and cultural assumptions throughout. Strangely enough, not everyone wants to be an American, and the US spent more than a decade in Vietnam proving it there too.
One whole generation of women got to experience non slavery - they will cherish those years forever.
Sry dude, fan of Sam, but it's like he doesn't get the whole deglobalization era at all. This has been in the works for a while. Gotta get your Peter Zeihan on bruh.
The podcast is not free, its like one of those internet service providers or streaming platforms that when you want to cancel the button is not activated, so dishonest mm
Rory Stewart, Sam?! Now I'm a Brit and very well aware him.
It's very clear now Sam that you are in echo chamber, of all the British people you could get on, you get someone like this.
Im going to listen, but I presume you are going to agree on everything.
Your beliefs contradict your own beliefs. It’s baffling you don’t realize this.
Finally a british guest who actually understands how important the EU is. It would be good to get his thoughts about that, instead of banking on Douglas Murray's nonsense.
Free Palestine
Rory Stewart might be the last honest conservative either side of the Atlantic
{No one disputes the signs of God except the disbelievers, so do not be deceived by their prosperity throughout the land.
Before them, the people of Noah denied it, as did enemy forces afterwards. Every community plotted against its prophet to seize him, and argued in falsehood, to discredit the truth with it. So God seized them. And how was God's punishment?
And so your Lord’s decree has been proven true against the disbelievers, that they will be the inmates of the Fire.}
I am going to ask you a question, and I am going to predict the answer you will have pop in your mind at first, and predict that will be a wrong answer. This works on most people and you can try if for yourself on others to see too, its an interesting conversation starter.
A bat and a ball together cost 1.10, the bat costs 1.00 more then the ball, how much did the ball cost?
You might have an answer of ten cents flash in your head right away with bias inaccurate fast mind but if you check that answer with your slow but more accurate conscious awareness, you can see that answer is wrong but it takes effort to do. The answer of ten cents is not the right answer but most people have that pop in their head because of the fast thinking mind that we rely on most of the time.
The fast unconscious mind is taking everything in and trying to make sense of it really fast. Its 11 million bits a second. But sometimes it makes mistakes. The slow conscious mind is 40-50 bits and lazy but it can check things and bringing the unconscious mistake to conscious awareness it can correct it.
The next thing to understand is about carl jung and the 4 ways the unconscious complex he called shadow deals with reality. The shadow is an unconscious complex that is defined as the repressed and suppressed aspects of the conscious self. there are constructive and destructive types of shadow. Carl jung emphasized the importance of being aware of shadow material and incorporating it into conscious awareness lest one project these attributes onto others. The human being deals with the reality of shadow in 4 ways. Denial, projection, integration and/or transmutation.
Now I believe what is happening when a question that exposes a conflict in a belief, idea, something that someone said, or even about someone they idolize and the question gets avoided, that is the fast unconscious mind going into denial and the response is often a projection. This also can trigger and emotional response activating the amygdala more and the pre frontal cortex less where rational conscious thought is said to happen and the amygdala starts to get the body to flood itself with chemicals/hormones.
Its like the fast mind knows conscious awareness will say its wrong. so it blocks it off to defend itself from admitting its wrong. in cases of denial and because it blocked off the rational mind, the responses are often irrational. Like personal attacks do not address the issue or answer the question. I think we can agree people have a very hard time now days admitting when they are wrong, I am not exempt from this myself I do realize. And we can see how badly questions avoidance effects us if you watch political meetings and watch them avoid questions all day long.
Ok, so the first thing to go over is denial as that is the main one I expose with questions. A disowning or refusal to acknowledge something I think is a good definition for it here. There is a really good 2 minute video I use as an example of this. A streamer named vegan gains claiming lobsters have brains after some one said he can eat lobsters because they do not have brains. He googles it and starts to read what it says. When he gets to the part where is says neither insects nor lobsters have brains, he skips it and says they literally are insects then skips over that line and continues to read the rest. Just like in the fast thinking video, his fast mind already read that line and refused to acknowledge it in unconscious denial, and just skipped it.
The person then tells him he skipped it and he reads it again and sees the line this time. Still being defensive of his claim and refusing to accept he was wrong, he tried to discredit the source and its the lobster institute of maine. If you would like to see the video for yourself its 2 minutes by destiny clips and the video is called " Destiny Reacts To Vegan Gains Ignoring Search Result That Contradicts Him". Justin turdo avoiding the question of how much his family was paid by the we charity 6 times in a row I think is denial as well. I think jordan peterson not being able to answer his own question of does he believe god exists and asking what do and you mean then saying no one knows what any of those words mean while being seemingly angry is think is another really good example of denial... and projection. And while JP find those words difficult, other people understand them easy. Even he does pretty much any other time they are used.
So projection is next up. Psychological projection is a defense mechanism people subconsciously employ in order to cope with difficult feelings or emotions. Psychological projection involves projecting undesirable feelings or emotions onto someone else, rather than admitting to or dealing with the unwanted feelings. Many times a mind in denial will use projections for responses. Someone getting mad and telling the other person to not interrupt when they have been doing that a lot themselves would be an example. I have done this myself. The people who tell me I dont understand my own questions and my point is wrong when they do not even know what the point is are all examples as well. I ask them to steel man my position to show then understand my point and they just avoid that question as well clearly showing they do not understand my point.
Now we have integration and/or transmutation. Integration is when you bring an unconscious behavior into conscious awareness and accept it. I know that I interrupt people talking sometimes even though I think that is wrong to do. I have a conscious awareness of it, but I have not been able to completely change the behavior.... yet. That is where transmutation comes in. Transmutation is to completely change that unconscious behavior. From being impatient to being patient, of from distrust to trust, hate into understanding and love even.
So was this understandable or confusing?
if you understand it, do you think its possibly true?
Do you have any questions? If you have any tips I am would gladly listen.
It's actually concerning just how wrong Sam's opinions are at times This was easily seen during this interview.
get this poor guy some soup 🍲
divine central authority unity with substantive human rights choice is international law, which is being violated by UN political government / two state solution
{No soul can imagine what delights are kept in store for them as a reward for what they used to do.
Is the one who is a believer equal before God to the rebellious one? They are not equal!
As for those who believe and do good, they will have the Gardens of Eternal Residence as an accommodation for what they used to do.
But as for those who are rebellious, the Fire will be their home. Whenever they try to escape from it, they will be forced back into it and told, Taste the Fire’s torment, which you used to deny.}
Dear Sam: try to be more concise with your questions.
Totally agree 😂
should ask him about Brad Pitt buying the rights to make a movie about his life - he is the forest gump of politicians in the way he seems to have done so many different things in such a short time - he is very impressive!
{Be not deceived by the mercantilistic wanderings of the unbelievers, on earth.
Because it is a transitory enjoyment, and its abode will be hell. What a dismal abode.
But those who feared their Lord will have gardens beneath which rivers flow, abiding eternally therein, as accommodation from God. And that which is with God is best for the righteous.
And indeed, among the People of the Scripture are those who believe in God and what was revealed to you (O Mohammed, Messenger of God), and what was revealed to them,
being humbly submissive to God. They do not exchange the verses of God for a small price. Those will have their reward with their Lord. Indeed, God is swift in account.
O you who have believed, persevere, endure, be patient, be ever vigilant, and fear God so that you will succeed and prosper.}
Why didn’t Rory talk about all the waste and corruption in Afghanistan, which ended with the US withdrawal that saved hundreds of millions of dollars?
Certainly. Would love to get more insight on the topic.