Despite the fact that Okazaki and ENT went with two different philosophies of Starship designs, I'd say this is an excellent take in trying to reconcile the Museum's designs with ENT's established stories I have to admit that in my headcanon things were very similar to what was stated in the video, i look forward for more of these Early Federation stories!
EC Henry (if i remember correctly) made the Pacific 201 fan film, in which they recreated the Daedalus among other things. It's a sexy ship with a few adjustments, and goofy enough to be charming in it's canon iteration. Plus you get beta canon where a Daedalus is used by the Core of Engineers in the TNG era and it is tuned to warp 9.something. You have to like designs that can pull that off.
I got a little jumpscared by the f-bomb at the start of the dragon segment, damn! Great video, as always, I really like your ideas and in-depth dissection of the ships!
@@intrepidgamer7942 And that low, threatening rising thrumming sound as the power builds... Then All 8 cannons light up in this torrent of blue-white and what ever is in front of it is just incinerated
Hell yeah, I've been on a binge of your videos and this comes out. As much as I love your videos on the dominion war, the early Federation is just such a cool time period to explore, especially when you reconcile Enterprise with starfleet museum
The Klingon Federation 4 years war (FASA canon not that STD bs) would be more than welcomed since there is a lot of room to play around with the pre-TOS/TOS fleets.
I hate knowing that the Dragon Class is a design that exists now...and that I couldn't help but immediately make a 3D model of it. Lol. Absolutely love the video and your channel though.
Warp 5 design program: “We have to consider the logistics and lines of the war to sustain the fleet against a technologically superior foe. Okazaki Design Bureau: 2 year mission to lightening nuke Romulus anyone?
An enjoyable overview on more Starfleet Museum ships. It is nice to see more ideas of that and Ent being merged together. As for the Dragon-class, I think it does find spiritual successors in the 24th century Freedom and Norway classes as monitors.
I mean an overgunned reject designed to fight a war it never got to be in. Reminds me of the Defiant. Certainly I think Sisko would be a fan of it. I lowkey love the idea of a ship with too many guns to be fired at once. Ironically it's exactly the kind of idea that would be great against the borg. If you can only use a weapon once fire all of them at once and if it results in the destruction of your ship that's the same odds as not firing them all.
The Dragon was a absolute nightmare development. The Moskva was a progressive interation as they gained more data on warpdynamics and designing to take advantage of it. Masao is the man!
To be honest it looks like the Dragon was supposed to be a nightmare on the battlefield and nothing more really, and it's short lived life probably contributed greatly to the war, just one of those ships firing 2 Lazer cannons at a time and using excellent pilot skills at maneuvering thrusters probably could disable a small fleet of Romulan ships from long distance and then go to warp before any of the ships are able to head towards it.
Very interesting video, I love how you bring the Star Fleet Museum into main line Trek. I would love to see videos on the Paris, Pyotr Velikiy, and Capella class starships. I view them as the forerunners to the Defiant.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 yeah mine either. a hotbox can still be an excellent mech tho, if u put the work in. like the marauder! but clanners alwas gotta add just one more er laser, just one more ppc
@@gusty9053 oh i love the microwave! drop the arm lasers, add in endo, and use the freed tonnage for dhs(plus replacing existing singles with dhs ofc). now i can fire that big microwave all day long!
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Liking seeing the Moskva get more attention! It's sort of a great bridge between the Daedalus and later designs like the Oberth. I was fine with it being launched in 2186 as a short-lived 'successor'' to the Daedalus, and last offshoot of that design. But moving it to pre 2151 has some advantages as well. Surprised the Daedalus was so early in your timeline, too. Recent novels had implied a mid 2140s debut for it, I recall.
lmao You don't realize how much I laughed when I was thinking, "Damn, the Dragon is so much like the Nova and Supernova 'Mechs from Battletech." and then I heard you reference the Nova immediately after I thought that. Thank you for the Battletech reference, brother.
Stuff in tech generally looks a certain way for a reason. Modern cars are smoother and curved because we can use/shape carbon fiber and have CNC machines rather than workmen slapping metal panels on a Model T with rivet guns. I can only assume that the constraints and understanding of early warp theory, i.e. warp 2 and 3 capable ships, plus Okazaki's design aesthetic choices, led to puff-ball ships.
It would have been pretty cool if the Dragon was equipped with a series of large radiator wings to better disperse the heat from its laser systems, similar to the McKenna class in Battletech. It would be a practical, low-tech solution to the problem as well as leaning in more to the ship's name. And to deal with Warp geometry, maybe the radiator wings could be built to extend when in operation and fold together like those on modern satellites when in Warp.
@@baileygregory9192 Given that the ship took part in an unprovoked war of aggression and that "tragedy" was a major victory for the defender in said war, yes.
@@DeHerg tell me please, do you write these theses, about the "unprovoked" and other jokes, in your uniform, with the red nose and huge yellow shoes? And, of course, if the "major victory" is the death of the enemy's first-rank ship from his own sloppiness, the "defenders" are clearly doing the war well.
One of the things I love about Starfleet Museum is that not all ships are hero ships. Indeed, most are not. There are minor successes, Meh ships and complete failures. Unfortunately, like so many others, the understanding of the physics of the energies involved is lacking. Regardless, bloody awesome website. Well worth binging. Well worth buying the book.
I'll stand by that multi-turreted tanks were not stupid in the '30's. People forget that things like Radio's, Electricity turned turrets and modern optics were not around, and without these things multiple turrets make sense- particularly before lightweight AT weapons.
I would disagree a lot on those points. They don't really justify the big multi-turreted tanks. The big multi-turreted tanks make sense primarily under the (not unreasonable) assumption that a major war between technologically advanced forces would devolve into trench warfare. And the Spanish Civil War had a lot of stablemates like this. In that scenario, those tanks have the job of rolling into the teeth of the enemy defenses and creating an opening for others to exploit and then being prepared for the next time it is needed. This leads to three main things: 1) Reliability isn't as important as their time in combat should be fairly short and they will not have to travel very far in combat conditions. 2) They will be surrounded so guns everywhere are absolutely necessary and they need tons of armour. 3) They need to cross trenches so they need to be big. Combine that with the limited engines, transmissions, and suspensions of the era meaning you are gonna have a big, slow, and unreliable tank of you want lots of armour and this makes sense. Some people clearly stuck with them way too long, but for a WWI Western Front scenario that people expected they do make a ton of sense.
@@88porpoise Thanks for the well written reply! That said I disagree. From 1918 to 1934 there were only two threats to tanks, field guns (typically 3 inch calibre) and been swarmed by infantry. The issue is if you fit a 3 inch gun so you can go toe to toe with a field gun the traverse of the turret would become too slow to engage mobile threats and firing on the move became impossible. Modern tanks they avoid been swarmed by infantry by communicating to "scratch each others backs" but on a radio-less, smoke filled battlefield, with your own infantry long since left behind, the issue was far more pressing. Between these two threats and the technological limitations having separate turrets make sense The armour on these tanks was actually quite weak 30mm's max (with the lone exception of the 45mm Char 2C) this was enough to deal with light mountain guns and early armour piecing bullets, but could not take a shot from its own gun. In the same vein the Vickers independent was actually lighter than the WW1 Mk VIII tank. Doctrinally these were not so much to be break in tanks storming a frontline but break though tanks, independently supporting themselves, not needing to wait for the infantry and going straight for the enemy supply lines and headquarters. The idea was to push though before the foe could move his heavy field guns to counter you. Think more Battle of Slim River than Battle of the Somme. One major advantage of the multi-turret design is it gives you more chances to spot hiding infantry and guns. The commander could get information on these threats on a intercom. The added space also gave you room for a radio as well as space for a dedicated mechanic. These sorts of expensive features do not make sense on a light tank. The death kneel for them was the introduction in 1934 of the Hotchkiss 25mm, a portable gun weighing under 500 kg capable of going clean though 40mm of plate at 500m. Within two years of its introduction every army in Europe was in the process of adopting a similar gun. Up armouring a multi-turreted tank above 40mm was rather impractical, and risked creating shot traps. Furthermore electric turret drives, radios and stabilisers all undermined the raison d'être of multi-turreter. Thanks for reading! I'll await your response :)
Great video! The Dragon makes me think of that one Battlemech loadout someone would make with a modular mech like a Madcat, and just pile on the heavy lasers to make a very impractical hard hitter that's for a very niche role on the battlefield.
We from conception have all ways looked up and felt more conected to the wounders above more than the ground under our feet humanity are the children of the stars and one day will be destined to travel them ..once we grow up and stop killing one another a beautiful future awaits the golden age of humankind to rival even the UFP lol its why I love startrek it's shows the very best we could be a optimistic future for all a true vision for the future...love your content VG 😊
YES!! I thoroughly ENJOYED this video!! WOW!! These things were like the "Model T" of Starships! and very Beautiful to say the least😁 You explained the evolutions very well Thank You🌹👍🌟 I learned a Lot from this video Definitely a thumbs UP!👍👍👍👍🌟🌟❤🌹
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly fabulously and wonderfully well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the Daedalus class starship's and her Cursed Cousins and the upgrading of newer versions to more of a primary saucer section than the cylindrical primary hull of the older vessels, and on all of their specifications and durability and that of their various different duties and missions assigned to them; Any ways a very spectacularly job truly done very well indeed Sir!👌.
I like how you put Okazaki Museum alongside Enterprise continuity and it makes me wonder if you've thought about highlighting some of the more civilian or non Starfleet but still federation vessels, the ones that aren't on the frontiers or frontlines but just pootling about the federation doing mining, cargo transport or cruises.
Oh no yes that is cursed. Although that just about sums up the Moskva class in real life as well. (Arrgh my eyes-the goggles they do nothing). Venom I am going to have to direct you to Drachinifel's video on French Pre-Dreadnoughts and how they had method to their madness-although madness it was. Also i like the early weird space ships from Earth and how you slowly built up to an Enterprise shape.
Madness was also the transition from wooden ship of the lines to the iron clad, iron fleet and the pre-dreadnoughts. Those are 3 massive Drach videos but weird ship design in those is the rule :).
I don't know. These two ships aren't that bad. They look rather...reasonable. While yes, they will never win any beauty contests. But let us be real. Would you rather be in a pretty ship or one that can take a beating? I mean, sure you could have best of both worlds...in time. Like a thousand years time. But this very second. Which one?
They fair better in the Starfleet Museum timeline they originate from, the Moskva was a just a solid ship in general, the Dragon doesn't really have the flaws mentioned here just it came out during a time where there was nothing for them to fight so they were kinda wasted and never had much of a production run.
Dragon: *(Low threatening, rising humming sound as the ship's spine lights up, running from the aft up to the fore)* Romulan Captain: My G... Dragon: *(Fires all eight Lasor Canons in a Torrent of Blue-White Energy that straight up incinerates the Romulan Cruiser)*
@venomgeekmedia9886 i kind of regard beta cannon as cannon but in a parallel universe or at least a divergent universe. which works well with star trek.
Thank for another entertaining, world building video. The Gagarin Class is a science vessel. Is it just me or can you see the 'Burger' shaped saucer section evolve into the Oberth? Maybe i've drank too much tea, but that's what it looks like to me.
Speaking of the Starfleet Museum ships and the Yorktown class, the Minuteman class from Star Trek Legacy also strikes me as a slightly post-Gagarin design, either the Bureau's last design, or something the members of it came up with while settling in with the Warp 5 people. It going mostly in for torpedoes would make sense as a (over?)correction from being too laser-focused with the Dragon, too.
I always thought that they should make a special version of thr ship where the sphere at the front was covered in weapons and had an ablative generator and the sphere would detach and do all the fighting
I really like the idea of integrating this alternative part of Trek history. But from my personal research. I actually can tell further part of this story. So basically there is a direct link between Moscow and the Ceres class, what is also known as Old Bonaventure (Bonaventure class is later design named after missing ship. What is known quirk of the Archer). While Warp 5 complex have a lot of work producing Poseidon class Destroyers (and possibly Strider as downsized core only variants). It make sense that competing design office, would step up on the game. With finally acquiring right to Warp 5, they try step up the game with use of help of alien contractors. Ceres as result was more advanced then even Bonaventure class. But there was a problem. Archer Drive was notorious for causing Temporal Incidents (which is why I believe Vulcans agree top share they classified Warp 7, to rid off Archer Drives). It is because it was stabilized by special device. What allow unstable early drive to come closer to Warp barier, when it work. Problem was when it didn't. Then ships going Warp 5 basically go Transwarp. Most other civilizations achieve higher speeds with fine tuning, while Humans basically hack it. What was the reason why Vulcans were so annoyed. Anyway, Ceres was desperately trying push it even more. And make system unstable. Causing failure of the project in the end, after disappearance of few ships. Including Old Bonaventure. With Archer caning it as unnecessary (and because he know about time travel). This was the end to entire design office. While Daedalus was most popular ship of 22'th century, it received only marginal upgrades. As side note. I also believe that Minuteman was designed as specialized military variant of Daedalus. Personal note. Wounder how it relate to activity of Bajkonur Shipyards? I remind that they are canon, and they were responsible for developing many civilian starships. Like Oberth and Relta. Wounder if they aren't relayed to Japanese design office? It sort would make sense considering location. Cracking Daedalus would be something what would fit them.
I forget to say. It is highly likely that Baton Rouge what replaced Daedalus, was most likely a finished version of the Ceres, but equipped with Vulcan Warp 7 Drive. The problem was that 23'th century was also when Federation decided to adopt Starfleet as standard. What actually was not the case in 22'th century. At this point San Francisco in pair Utopia Planitia, get absolutely massive contracts. Both on production and the licensing. As such Bajkonur was sidelined only to secondary duties. Maybe and that big maybe, having something to do with Ares. Maybe?
It's easy, this continuity is the one before Janeway started fucking with time and that timeship went to the 1960s and before where they said in the new shows that the temporal cold war started altering past time. It's the original timeline..... which exists as another alternate or mirror universe lol
The Twin Mustang was developed as a long range escort fighter. The design took the pilots information from the long range escort to and from mainland Japan. Which was a flight of eight hours so two mustangs joined as one would relieve the pilots fatigue. One pilot would fly four hours and the second one would fly it back to Iwo Jima. Also all fuel was inside tanks to remove the need for two large capacity (about 350 US gallons) drop tanks. There by lessening drag and weight. What makes you think it was a bad idea? It's more of a technical dead end because the jet engine rendered the F-82 obsolete. It would be replaced by a jet fighter design and built by Republic Aircraft Company. The F-89 long range escort fighter for the just created Strategic Air Command or S.A.C.
It's a curious thing, at some point either before or during the formation of the UFP, capitalism is consigned to the dustbin it belongs in. But there is no exact dating for such as few ever talk about the actual economics of the federation, which are in fact, democratic communism. From each world resources for the federation are taken according to their ability, unto each world is given unto their needs. I am sure some member worlds still have a currency system and likely the federation capital has a central bank where it keeps a portion of the currency of a given world that it gained via trading resources from that world, which can then be allotted to an account of any federation citizen should they visit that world, thus ensuring a basic minimum income is there for citizens visiting worlds who have not yet advanced to a moneyless post scarcity society.
@@Nine-Signs Star Trek isn't capitalist or communist as such. It's post scarcity. Neither economic system is really relevant because pretty much everyone has the means of pretty much instant free effortless production, which is just going up to the replicator and saying what you want. The only limitation is energy, and with a civilisation that has easy widespread access to matter/antimatter reactors is virtually a non issue unless you're way out on the frontier where power might be limited. A lot of big companies probably still exist in some form, they're just not exactly profit motivated as such. You're still going to get groups of engineers or etc coming together to build something they're passionate about and slap their name on it.
Following your explanation of the starship design lineage, what do u think of the early NX-01 concept design that made it look like the AkiraPrise as it has a ventral hull section and a circular deflector dish instead of the oval shaped in canon. Would it had given the NX01 a bigger warp core and be faster than the warp5 limitation.
21:09 "Okazaki Moskva very much redeemed the name which currently sits in a very bad place" - nice burn. It's very cold in space and the Black Sea deeps.
Ice Tesseract “I heard you like lasers, so we put a laser on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser on your new ship.” Joking aside I’ve always loved speciality vehicles, there’s a reason for the madness and while they maybe completely inadequate outside of their roles, lessons are learned, experience is gained and everyone’s a genius looking back after the fact and pointing out flaws that initially weren’t obvious, those flaws were discovered because of the risks they were willing to take.
I think the Moskva was an excellent ship, it covered the tactical weakness of the NX class and the Daedalus class and if I was building a fleet for that war, I would include them as well as the NX and Daedalus classes as well as other ships of course. I see the Dragon as doubling down on what worked but without a clear goal in mind One of the weaknesses of Star Trek in regard to ships is a lack of competition for the contacts, healthy completion makes everyone better, and look at the Indian Arjun tank to see what happens when a vehicle is designed with only one designer and no competitor.
Two thoughts from this video; 1) "Where are our space balls?" and the first thought to pop into my head; "If you're livin' in a bubble and you haven't got a fear, well you're gonna be in trouble 'cause we're gonna steal your air, we're the Spaceballs," 2) describing the Moskva's semi-spherical section as the "burger" almost seems like a logical transition from the spheical section of the Daedalus-class to the saucer section of the Constitution-class onwards as it looks llike it was built as a collaborative development between the MOB and Starfleet's ASDB After the third mention of "space balls" it felt like; take a shot of water for every time "space balls" is said
1:03 I really like the website. That said, if you happen to know the man behind it, could you ask how the DY-500 fits in? 18:55 No white elephant reference? In all honesty, there is a line that I see the Romulans uttering of "Dragons guarding the frontier" as a design that was watching the neutral zone before or during the asteroid monitoring stations had been constructed and/or shortly afterwards.
The Nova is an excellent comparison sir, because if you fire everything that mech brings to the fight.... it will turn off, even as a clan mech with clan heatsinks
Okay good you didn't bully Moskva, I would have been cross. I want more early fed stuff, this is super cool and an area that deserves further exploration! Also, to defend the idea... you don't know its a bad idea until you try it!!! By god, what if it works?!
The problem with LASERs and shields is that LASERs are light and if you can see your target through its shields, then light can travel through its shields and that means a LASER can easily pass through the shields because a LASER is just light that has been concentrated into a tight beam.
So I'm not a physicist but I know that light can be both considered a wave and as photon particles. So shields probably exclude more concentrated forms of light and radiation. In one episode of TOS shields are used to hide the ship from primitive scanning
I always assumed the saucer section was because its easier to get about for people, easier to get anywhere on the ship and easy from anywhere to get to the command deck
I love ths ships of Masao Okazaki, their backstory is so interesting. Kinda sad that they were made out of hate of Enterprise. Kinda wish he made more designs and backstories on passenger and commercial starships edit: How ab out videos on Okazaki's take on commercial ships?
As over engineered and complicated as the NX class was it still had modular potential. Along with the whole secondary hull the entire engineering compartment was designed to be removed and swapped out for a new one with the possibility of adapting a newer engine. I just wish I could remember where I read that right now to sight it lol
I always loved the Fleet Museum designs. It's a real shame that the canon went different directions, since there was such a great well of ideas to pull from.
Deadelus always seemed TO ME like what the main ship should have been IF developed. I don’t know why but I always thought we should have had a maim ship with a spherical …..saucer section. Think about saucer separation. I think we need a medical show with this as the ship.
The Dragon could have been an interesting support for a fleet. A single alpha strike to wipe out a key enemy vessel (the biggest vessel or command ship) at the start of the engagement could be huge even if it takes the Drqgon mostly out of the fight. Separately, the Dragon must be considered the spiritual successor to the late 1930s British T-Class submarine, with its ten forward torpedo tubes.
So in attempting to build upon the success of the Daedalus class pre and during the romulan earth war. The Okazaki ended up creating technological great white elephants that never did the business and faded in insecurity as the early federation went in another direction re ship design.
I actually can see a very good reason for so many laser cannons on the Dragon, it might look like a stupid design and overkill with all the cannons, and during peacetime it might actually be that, but during a war the extra cannons allows it to rotationally fire to keep the lasers from overheating and burning up, ultimately this leads to more shots fired and more enemy ships disabled and left vulnerable for other Starfleet vessels, if it were to only have 2 laser cannons, you might be able to get 3 repeat shots with the pair or a max of 6 repeat shots with each cannon, but having 8 front cannons quadruples that number of shots before you have to let the system cool off, so I can see a definite strategic advantage, and with an excellent pilot, which they probably made sure of, they could precisely target enemy ships and snipe them one by one till they all are disabled.
I think the older designs work for pre starfleet designs. Maybe they could have been being used by humans before warp/first contact to settle places in system.
I'm sure the Dragon class was very useful during the war, just a few of those long range sniper ships probably turned the tide of the war, and even though it was basically only a wartime ship, a wartime show about the Dragon class would very interesting to watch, like what life aboard a wartime sniping vessel during wartime would be like, it would be a worthy show to watch, it would even be cool as an anime show.
While I agree that the laser cannons might have a longer range than phaze cannons, the energy disapation at those distances would render them weaker than a phaze cannon. In essence, you're trading range for power. That trade-off, to me, seems negligable in an actual fight. For example: a subsonic round of a higher caliber might not reach as far as a lower caliber supersonic round, but their stopping power of the round would change; a 22 long rifle will reach further than a subsonic round, but you'd need a lot more of them to take down a target than you would a single shot from a subsonic round once in range.
Im wondering now exactly what happened to the franchises in the future of star Trek continuity, that actually would be an interesting topic to explore. Did they finally fade away or did they adapt to the changes and thrive in this future. I would imagine that McDonald's would have been very popular in the first few decades of the replication era. Most necessities are provided for anyone and everyone so even the most destitute are provided with food, clothing, shelter and medical attention but there was also a credit system for those who wanted to have more than just the necessities.
Replicators would probably remove the need for fast food, not to mention changes to the economy so that people savour food. Less McDonald's more pop's grillhouse
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Yes but you also have replicator specific designated areas like replimats, who's to say that whatever is left of the fast food chains didn't simply operate specific novelty replimats. Their roles as actual franchises might be meaningless at this point, but you could have places you can go to experience what life was like in our time. Not just fast food, it's just an example, but I think it's a topic worth exploring as a whole.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 We at least know that FedEx survived until the beginning of the federation so stuff like that, but it would be fun to speculate about other franchises.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I just thought of one other topic, things like heirlooms and ancestral ownership are still in place by the 25th century, I'm speaking of course about Chateau Pickard Vinyard and brand. That is a good topic and right up your alley actually.
Okay, that you didn't have a clip of "SPACEBALLS!" during the videos feels like a "mist opportunity" (So, how many people will think I used mist instead of missed accidentally instead of intentionally...? I bloody quoted that phrase)
They should have instead fast tracked new antimatter reactor cores for the Moskva and do quick refits. Insist that the warp 5 program hand over the designs or even build the cores themselves to fit the specifications of the Moskva class, on the grounds that "We're _fighting for our species_ (and allies), so F your copyright and technological confidentiality." As for the Dragon class, while building extra antimatter powered Moskva's (with upgrades allowed by the extra energy output) would have been more sensible during a war, the Dragons design could still work with some modifications. Swap out half the lasers for phase cannons, and it's got combat versatility. Hits with all the lasers firing at long range, and at closer range switching to the phase cannons. In an emergency fire everything for a short time. As for cooling, extend the four pylons joining the two for each nacelle into one broad pylon. That would provide _a lot_ of surface area for cooling, and right near the reactor and drives where the heat is concentrated. That might even allow all weapons to be fired continuously without heat issues. Throw in a large inventory of missiles, allowed by the very large volume, and also extra missile launchers, and you've got a ship that can deal out punishment in any situation. Dealing the hurt at extreme range and able to increase the hurt should an enemy manage to get closer.
16:56 At this point I can’t help but think about Battletech. After all why shouldn’t I push the fire every thing button. Sure my Nova Prime would be hotter than the sun but the enemy is now a scorch mark.
Despite the fact that Okazaki and ENT went with two different philosophies of Starship designs, I'd say this is an excellent take in trying to reconcile the Museum's designs with ENT's established stories
I have to admit that in my headcanon things were very similar to what was stated in the video, i look forward for more of these Early Federation stories!
I always loved the Daedaluses and other ships that look like it. I have no idea why lol
but dosen't dealus die in the origsl story or is it icaris that dies.
@@alexisdespland4939Icarus dies.
Maybe because it looks like a mace in space, rather than a spoon?
EC Henry (if i remember correctly) made the Pacific 201 fan film, in which they recreated the Daedalus among other things. It's a sexy ship with a few adjustments, and goofy enough to be charming in it's canon iteration. Plus you get beta canon where a Daedalus is used by the Core of Engineers in the TNG era and it is tuned to warp 9.something. You have to like designs that can pull that off.
I'm on the other side of that, I've always hated these ships. They look like they were all designed by the Capsule Corporation or on planet Spaceball.
Always good to see more Starfleet Museum love.
Agreed. It doesn’t get enough recognition.
I was depressed all day until I heard "But what happened to our spaceballs" and burst out laughing ahh..... Droll
Bonus points for the Battletech reference.
Disco Dragon.
I'd go with it being an undersinked alpha striker with a newbie mechwarrior.
I got a little jumpscared by the f-bomb at the start of the dragon segment, damn! Great video, as always, I really like your ideas and in-depth dissection of the ships!
I like the Godzilla song with the intro of the Dragon Class.
Now I can't help but imagine the ship's spine lighting up, as power feeds up from the reactor before those laser cannons fire
@@weldonwin All 8 simultaneously!
@@intrepidgamer7942 And that low, threatening rising thrumming sound as the power builds... Then All 8 cannons light up in this torrent of blue-white and what ever is in front of it is just incinerated
Hell yeah, I've been on a binge of your videos and this comes out.
As much as I love your videos on the dominion war, the early Federation is just such a cool time period to explore, especially when you reconcile Enterprise with starfleet museum
The Klingon Federation 4 years war (FASA canon not that STD bs) would be more than welcomed since there is a lot of room to play around with the pre-TOS/TOS fleets.
I’ve done the same things many times over the years and each time I get more and more out of the videos
@@gusty9053 In short: If war would start before introduction of Phase 2 design.
Honestly, the Pentagon Wars theme as background music at the start is a very nice touch.
Can I interest you in a discounted Bradley fighting vehicle?
I hate knowing that the Dragon Class is a design that exists now...and that I couldn't help but immediately make a 3D model of it. Lol. Absolutely love the video and your channel though.
Warp 5 design program: “We have to consider the logistics and lines of the war to sustain the fleet against a technologically superior foe.
Okazaki Design Bureau: 2 year mission to lightening nuke Romulus anyone?
An enjoyable overview on more Starfleet Museum ships. It is nice to see more ideas of that and Ent being merged together.
As for the Dragon-class, I think it does find spiritual successors in the 24th century Freedom and Norway classes as monitors.
I mean an overgunned reject designed to fight a war it never got to be in. Reminds me of the Defiant. Certainly I think Sisko would be a fan of it. I lowkey love the idea of a ship with too many guns to be fired at once. Ironically it's exactly the kind of idea that would be great against the borg. If you can only use a weapon once fire all of them at once and if it results in the destruction of your ship that's the same odds as not firing them all.
"It's not a good idea to fire all eight lasers at once"
Some Clanner in a distant universe: "What was that, press the button?"
Now I'm wondering how well Clanner tech would integrate into Starfleet ships lol
Love the Daedalus and this era. Was a treat to see this video in my feed.
The Dragon was a absolute nightmare development.
The Moskva was a progressive interation as they gained more data on warpdynamics and designing to take advantage of it.
Masao is the man!
To be honest it looks like the Dragon was supposed to be a nightmare on the battlefield and nothing more really, and it's short lived life probably contributed greatly to the war, just one of those ships firing 2 Lazer cannons at a time and using excellent pilot skills at maneuvering thrusters probably could disable a small fleet of Romulan ships from long distance and then go to warp before any of the ships are able to head towards it.
Like going from Tesla Model 3 to Cybertruck 😂 😂
@@Nine-Signs good point!
I would love to see you go over the Starfleet Museum 23rd century ships and how they differ from your canon or FASA.
Very interesting video, I love how you bring the Star Fleet Museum into main line Trek. I would love to see videos on the Paris, Pyotr Velikiy, and Capella class starships. I view them as the forerunners to the Defiant.
hahaha, i laughed at the mention of the Nova
HEY LOOK WHAT I CAN DO
*fires 10+ lasers*
*overheats and is shut down for the rest of the match*
@@marsar1775 yeah not my favorite mech.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 yeah mine either. a hotbox can still be an excellent mech tho, if u put the work in. like the marauder! but clanners alwas gotta add just one more er laser, just one more ppc
@@marsar1775 The Swayback laser variant would like a word :).
@@gusty9053 oh i love the microwave!
drop the arm lasers, add in endo, and use the freed tonnage for dhs(plus replacing existing singles with dhs ofc). now i can fire that big microwave all day long!
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Liking seeing the Moskva get more attention!
It's sort of a great bridge between the Daedalus and later designs like the Oberth.
I was fine with it being launched in 2186 as a short-lived 'successor'' to the Daedalus, and last offshoot of that design.
But moving it to pre 2151 has some advantages as well. Surprised the Daedalus was so early in your timeline, too.
Recent novels had implied a mid 2140s debut for it, I recall.
lmao You don't realize how much I laughed when I was thinking, "Damn, the Dragon is so much like the Nova and Supernova 'Mechs from Battletech." and then I heard you reference the Nova immediately after I thought that. Thank you for the Battletech reference, brother.
Stuff in tech generally looks a certain way for a reason. Modern cars are smoother and curved because we can use/shape carbon fiber and have CNC machines rather than workmen slapping metal panels on a Model T with rivet guns.
I can only assume that the constraints and understanding of early warp theory, i.e. warp 2 and 3 capable ships, plus Okazaki's design aesthetic choices, led to puff-ball ships.
It would have been pretty cool if the Dragon was equipped with a series of large radiator wings to better disperse the heat from its laser systems, similar to the McKenna class in Battletech. It would be a practical, low-tech solution to the problem as well as leaning in more to the ship's name. And to deal with Warp geometry, maybe the radiator wings could be built to extend when in operation and fold together like those on modern satellites when in Warp.
I wonder if even in the 22nd century Moskva will be promoted to space submarine.
Is it appropriate to make a joke about a recent tragedy were several sailors died
@@baileygregory9192 Given that the ship took part in an unprovoked war of aggression and that "tragedy" was a major victory for the defender in said war, yes.
@@DeHerg tell me please, do you write these theses, about the "unprovoked" and other jokes, in your uniform, with the red nose and huge yellow shoes?
And, of course, if the "major victory" is the death of the enemy's first-rank ship from his own sloppiness, the "defenders" are clearly doing the war well.
One of the things I love about Starfleet Museum is that not all ships are hero ships. Indeed, most are not.
There are minor successes, Meh ships and complete failures.
Unfortunately, like so many others, the understanding of the physics of the energies involved is lacking.
Regardless, bloody awesome website. Well worth binging. Well worth buying the book.
I'll stand by that multi-turreted tanks were not stupid in the '30's. People forget that things like Radio's, Electricity turned turrets and modern optics were not around, and without these things multiple turrets make sense- particularly before lightweight AT weapons.
Oh yeah if all you know about tank design is ww1 landships then multi turrets are the next logical step
I would disagree a lot on those points. They don't really justify the big multi-turreted tanks.
The big multi-turreted tanks make sense primarily under the (not unreasonable) assumption that a major war between technologically advanced forces would devolve into trench warfare. And the Spanish Civil War had a lot of stablemates like this.
In that scenario, those tanks have the job of rolling into the teeth of the enemy defenses and creating an opening for others to exploit and then being prepared for the next time it is needed.
This leads to three main things:
1) Reliability isn't as important as their time in combat should be fairly short and they will not have to travel very far in combat conditions.
2) They will be surrounded so guns everywhere are absolutely necessary and they need tons of armour.
3) They need to cross trenches so they need to be big.
Combine that with the limited engines, transmissions, and suspensions of the era meaning you are gonna have a big, slow, and unreliable tank of you want lots of armour and this makes sense.
Some people clearly stuck with them way too long, but for a WWI Western Front scenario that people expected they do make a ton of sense.
@@88porpoise Thanks for the well written reply!
That said I disagree. From 1918 to 1934 there were only two threats to tanks, field guns (typically 3 inch calibre) and been swarmed by infantry.
The issue is if you fit a 3 inch gun so you can go toe to toe with a field gun the traverse of the turret would become too slow to engage mobile threats and firing on the move became impossible.
Modern tanks they avoid been swarmed by infantry by communicating to "scratch each others backs" but on a radio-less, smoke filled battlefield, with your own infantry long since left behind, the issue was far more pressing.
Between these two threats and the technological limitations having separate turrets make sense
The armour on these tanks was actually quite weak 30mm's max (with the lone exception of the 45mm Char 2C) this was enough to deal with light mountain guns and early armour piecing bullets, but could not take a shot from its own gun. In the same vein the Vickers independent was actually lighter than the WW1 Mk VIII tank.
Doctrinally these were not so much to be break in tanks storming a frontline but break though tanks, independently supporting themselves, not needing to wait for the infantry and going straight for the enemy supply lines and headquarters. The idea was to push though before the foe could move his heavy field guns to counter you. Think more Battle of Slim River than Battle of the Somme.
One major advantage of the multi-turret design is it gives you more chances to spot hiding infantry and guns. The commander could get information on these threats on a intercom. The added space also gave you room for a radio as well as space for a dedicated mechanic. These sorts of expensive features do not make sense on a light tank.
The death kneel for them was the introduction in 1934 of the Hotchkiss 25mm, a portable gun weighing under 500 kg capable of going clean though 40mm of plate at 500m. Within two years of its introduction every army in Europe was in the process of adopting a similar gun.
Up armouring a multi-turreted tank above 40mm was rather impractical, and risked creating shot traps. Furthermore electric turret drives, radios and stabilisers all undermined the raison d'être of multi-turreter.
Thanks for reading! I'll await your response :)
Great video!
The Dragon makes me think of that one Battlemech loadout someone would make with a modular mech like a Madcat, and just pile on the heavy lasers to make a very impractical hard hitter that's for a very niche role on the battlefield.
We from conception have all ways looked up and felt more conected to the wounders above more than the ground under our feet humanity are the children of the stars and one day will be destined to travel them ..once we grow up and stop killing one another a beautiful future awaits the golden age of humankind to rival even the UFP lol its why I love startrek it's shows the very best we could be a optimistic future for all a true vision for the future...love your content VG 😊
Love the Pentagon Wars theme. Very appropriate.
Always a good day when you release a video! I have always loved the designs of Starfleet Museum. I am glad you are sharing your head cannon on them!
The Dragon class look like a Sea Angel.
to be honest, looks a little bit like the SpaceX Red Dragon...
Super cool stuff bro! Your vids always do the Trek mythos a great service!
YES!! I thoroughly ENJOYED this video!! WOW!! These things were like the "Model T" of Starships! and very Beautiful to say the least😁 You explained the evolutions very well Thank You🌹👍🌟 I learned a Lot from this video Definitely a thumbs UP!👍👍👍👍🌟🌟❤🌹
Thank you for the history lesson. (future lesson ? future history lesson ?)
Thank you for the video. Very interesting.
Oh no, not my Boys! They arent Cursed! I love these transitional designs!
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly fabulously and wonderfully well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided on the Daedalus class starship's and her Cursed Cousins and the upgrading of newer versions to more of a primary saucer section than the cylindrical primary hull of the older vessels, and on all of their specifications and durability and that of their various different duties and missions assigned to them; Any ways a very spectacularly job truly done very well indeed Sir!👌.
I swear that song that is a riff on the original series music that you use always makes me giggle. Honestly, all the music you use does
I like how you put Okazaki Museum alongside Enterprise continuity and it makes me wonder if you've thought about highlighting some of the more civilian or non Starfleet but still federation vessels, the ones that aren't on the frontiers or frontlines but just pootling about the federation doing mining, cargo transport or cruises.
Excellent video!
Oh no yes that is cursed. Although that just about sums up the Moskva class in real life as well. (Arrgh my eyes-the goggles they do nothing). Venom I am going to have to direct you to Drachinifel's video on French Pre-Dreadnoughts and how they had method to their madness-although madness it was. Also i like the early weird space ships from Earth and how you slowly built up to an Enterprise shape.
The Queen Anne Mansions or the Hotels on Water?
@@nicolamarchbank1846 The hilarious tumblehome French ships of course. The Queen annes mansions were actually practical...
Madness was also the transition from wooden ship of the lines to the iron clad, iron fleet and the pre-dreadnoughts. Those are 3 massive Drach videos but weird ship design in those is the rule :).
@@gusty9053 Yes-I mean he's friends with Drach so has probably seen them but I am all for sharing ship madness.
I don't know. These two ships aren't that bad. They look rather...reasonable. While yes, they will never win any beauty contests. But let us be real. Would you rather be in a pretty ship or one that can take a beating? I mean, sure you could have best of both worlds...in time. Like a thousand years time. But this very second. Which one?
They fair better in the Starfleet Museum timeline they originate from, the Moskva was a just a solid ship in general, the Dragon doesn't really have the flaws mentioned here just it came out during a time where there was nothing for them to fight so they were kinda wasted and never had much of a production run.
Moskva: pewpewpew!
Dragon: IMMA FIRIN' MAH LAZOR!
Dragon: *(Low threatening, rising humming sound as the ship's spine lights up, running from the aft up to the fore)*
Romulan Captain: My G...
Dragon: *(Fires all eight Lasor Canons in a Torrent of Blue-White Energy that straight up incinerates the Romulan Cruiser)*
The Dragon reminds me of a battletech design.
The Komodo in particular.
Runs hot =D
Engineering axiom: if it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid.
kind of ironic how in the 24th century starfleet again adopted sphere sections on ships with the olympic class.
Depending upon use of beta canon it never went away. Just faded into the background
@venomgeekmedia9886 i kind of regard beta cannon as cannon but in a parallel universe or at least a divergent universe. which works well with star trek.
Thank for another entertaining, world building video. The Gagarin Class is a science vessel. Is it just me or can you see the 'Burger' shaped saucer section evolve into the Oberth? Maybe i've drank too much tea, but that's what it looks like to me.
Your not the only one to suggest that so probably
@@venomgeekmedia9886 future video idea maybe 🤔
Speaking of the Starfleet Museum ships and the Yorktown class, the Minuteman class from Star Trek Legacy also strikes me as a slightly post-Gagarin design, either the Bureau's last design, or something the members of it came up with while settling in with the Warp 5 people. It going mostly in for torpedoes would make sense as a (over?)correction from being too laser-focused with the Dragon, too.
11:40 that song took me back
I really like the look of both the Moskva & Dragon Classes. If a Dragon showed up to a battle, you know they meant business.
I always thought that they should make a special version of thr ship where the sphere at the front was covered in weapons and had an ablative generator and the sphere would detach and do all the fighting
These look very awesome to look at. I would love if one of the Dragon class was named Godzilla. It be nice if only two of the Dragon-class were built.
what do we know about non-human federation ships. what percentage of federation ship are of human design.
An unexplored pert of lore. What comes from whom?
TWIN MUSTANG IS NOT STUPID!!!
JUSTICE FOR THE TWINSTANG!
Would there have been anything between this and the late 24th century Olympic class?
The twin mustang wasn't a bad plane. It was a good stop-gap right before the age of the jet engine.
It was made for long distance flights and had two pilots so one could sleep
You forgot about the Minuteman class.
@@barrybend7189 actually I covered it in a video on cargo ships.
Not it's torpedo destroyer version.
I really like the idea of integrating this alternative part of Trek history. But from my personal research. I actually can tell further part of this story. So basically there is a direct link between Moscow and the Ceres class, what is also known as Old Bonaventure (Bonaventure class is later design named after missing ship. What is known quirk of the Archer). While Warp 5 complex have a lot of work producing Poseidon class Destroyers (and possibly Strider as downsized core only variants). It make sense that competing design office, would step up on the game. With finally acquiring right to Warp 5, they try step up the game with use of help of alien contractors. Ceres as result was more advanced then even Bonaventure class.
But there was a problem. Archer Drive was notorious for causing Temporal Incidents (which is why I believe Vulcans agree top share they classified Warp 7, to rid off Archer Drives). It is because it was stabilized by special device. What allow unstable early drive to come closer to Warp barier, when it work. Problem was when it didn't. Then ships going Warp 5 basically go Transwarp. Most other civilizations achieve higher speeds with fine tuning, while Humans basically hack it. What was the reason why Vulcans were so annoyed.
Anyway, Ceres was desperately trying push it even more. And make system unstable. Causing failure of the project in the end, after disappearance of few ships. Including Old Bonaventure. With Archer caning it as unnecessary (and because he know about time travel). This was the end to entire design office. While Daedalus was most popular ship of 22'th century, it received only marginal upgrades. As side note. I also believe that Minuteman was designed as specialized military variant of Daedalus.
Personal note. Wounder how it relate to activity of Bajkonur Shipyards? I remind that they are canon, and they were responsible for developing many civilian starships. Like Oberth and Relta. Wounder if they aren't relayed to Japanese design office? It sort would make sense considering location. Cracking Daedalus would be something what would fit them.
I forget to say. It is highly likely that Baton Rouge what replaced Daedalus, was most likely a finished version of the Ceres, but equipped with Vulcan Warp 7 Drive. The problem was that 23'th century was also when Federation decided to adopt Starfleet as standard. What actually was not the case in 22'th century. At this point San Francisco in pair Utopia Planitia, get absolutely massive contracts. Both on production and the licensing. As such Bajkonur was sidelined only to secondary duties. Maybe and that big maybe, having something to do with Ares. Maybe?
It's easy, this continuity is the one before Janeway started fucking with time and that timeship went to the 1960s and before where they said in the new shows that the temporal cold war started altering past time. It's the original timeline..... which exists as another alternate or mirror universe lol
If it's stupid but it works it's not stupid.
The Twin Mustang was developed as a long range escort fighter. The design took the pilots information from the long range escort to and from mainland Japan. Which was a flight of eight hours so two mustangs joined as one would relieve the pilots fatigue. One pilot would fly four hours and the second one would fly it back to Iwo Jima. Also all fuel was inside tanks to remove the need for two large capacity (about 350 US gallons) drop tanks. There by lessening drag and weight. What makes you think it was a bad idea? It's more of a technical dead end because the jet engine rendered the F-82 obsolete. It would be replaced by a jet fighter design and built by Republic Aircraft Company. The F-89 long range escort fighter for the just created Strategic Air Command or S.A.C.
Ha! Love Federation Express. lol.
I did not expect a FedEx ship when i woke up today
It's a curious thing, at some point either before or during the formation of the UFP, capitalism is consigned to the dustbin it belongs in. But there is no exact dating for such as few ever talk about the actual economics of the federation, which are in fact, democratic communism. From each world resources for the federation are taken according to their ability, unto each world is given unto their needs. I am sure some member worlds still have a currency system and likely the federation capital has a central bank where it keeps a portion of the currency of a given world that it gained via trading resources from that world, which can then be allotted to an account of any federation citizen should they visit that world, thus ensuring a basic minimum income is there for citizens visiting worlds who have not yet advanced to a moneyless post scarcity society.
@@Nine-Signs Star Trek isn't capitalist or communist as such. It's post scarcity. Neither economic system is really relevant because pretty much everyone has the means of pretty much instant free effortless production, which is just going up to the replicator and saying what you want. The only limitation is energy, and with a civilisation that has easy widespread access to matter/antimatter reactors is virtually a non issue unless you're way out on the frontier where power might be limited.
A lot of big companies probably still exist in some form, they're just not exactly profit motivated as such. You're still going to get groups of engineers or etc coming together to build something they're passionate about and slap their name on it.
Following your explanation of the starship design lineage, what do u think of the early NX-01 concept design that made it look like the AkiraPrise as it has a ventral hull section and a circular deflector dish instead of the oval shaped in canon. Would it had given the NX01 a bigger warp core and be faster than the warp5 limitation.
Personally I'm not keen on the NX refit I think it goes too far to fast and leaves anything between it and Connie with little to do.
21:09 "Okazaki Moskva very much redeemed the name which currently sits in a very bad place" - nice burn. It's very cold in space and the Black Sea deeps.
Ice Tesseract “I heard you like lasers, so we put a laser on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser, on your laser on your new ship.” Joking aside I’ve always loved speciality vehicles, there’s a reason for the madness and while they maybe completely inadequate outside of their roles, lessons are learned, experience is gained and everyone’s a genius looking back after the fact and pointing out flaws that initially weren’t obvious, those flaws were discovered because of the risks they were willing to take.
I think the Moskva was an excellent ship, it covered the tactical weakness of the NX class and the Daedalus class and if I was building a fleet for that war, I would include them as well as the NX and Daedalus classes as well as other ships of course.
I see the Dragon as doubling down on what worked but without a clear goal in mind
One of the weaknesses of Star Trek in regard to ships is a lack of competition for the contacts, healthy completion makes everyone better, and look at the Indian Arjun tank to see what happens when a vehicle is designed with only one designer and no competitor.
Two thoughts from this video; 1) "Where are our space balls?" and the first thought to pop into my head; "If you're livin' in a bubble and you haven't got a fear, well you're gonna be in trouble 'cause we're gonna steal your air, we're the Spaceballs," 2) describing the Moskva's semi-spherical section as the "burger" almost seems like a logical transition from the spheical section of the Daedalus-class to the saucer section of the Constitution-class onwards as it looks llike it was built as a collaborative development between the MOB and Starfleet's ASDB
After the third mention of "space balls" it felt like; take a shot of water for every time "space balls" is said
1:03 I really like the website. That said, if you happen to know the man behind it, could you ask how the DY-500 fits in?
18:55 No white elephant reference? In all honesty, there is a line that I see the Romulans uttering of "Dragons guarding the frontier" as a design that was watching the neutral zone before or during the asteroid monitoring stations had been constructed and/or shortly afterwards.
I dig the Dragon class! I want to model one.
Nova BattleMech Is awesome. It's all about knowing how far to push the damn thing constantly without going into overheating.
such a curious, nicely spaced out choice of music 🙂
whats that title at 14:00 ?
... never mind, you already provided a playlist, many thanks!!
The Nova is an excellent comparison sir, because if you fire everything that mech brings to the fight.... it will turn off, even as a clan mech with clan heatsinks
23:27 I mean.. The twin mustang does look pretty cool though, all things considered~
Okay good you didn't bully Moskva, I would have been cross.
I want more early fed stuff, this is super cool and an area that deserves further exploration! Also, to defend the idea... you don't know its a bad idea until you try it!!! By god, what if it works?!
i can certainly respect the approach of "all energy to the lasers"
Or the Captain getting to shout "FIRE THE LASERS!!!"
Fun video. I wonder if my Miles & More card would get me a good seat on the Lufthansa ship.....?
The problem with LASERs and shields is that LASERs are light and if you can see your target through its shields, then light can travel through its shields and that means a LASER can easily pass through the shields because a LASER is just light that has been concentrated into a tight beam.
So I'm not a physicist but I know that light can be both considered a wave and as photon particles. So shields probably exclude more concentrated forms of light and radiation. In one episode of TOS shields are used to hide the ship from primitive scanning
I always assumed the saucer section was because its easier to get about for people, easier to get anywhere on the ship and easy from anywhere to get to the command deck
I love ths ships of Masao Okazaki, their backstory is so interesting. Kinda sad that they were made out of hate of Enterprise. Kinda wish he made more designs and backstories on passenger and commercial starships
edit: How ab out videos on Okazaki's take on commercial ships?
As over engineered and complicated as the NX class was it still had modular potential. Along with the whole secondary hull the entire engineering compartment was designed to be removed and swapped out for a new one with the possibility of adapting a newer engine. I just wish I could remember where I read that right now to sight it lol
I always loved the Fleet Museum designs. It's a real shame that the canon went different directions, since there was such a great well of ideas to pull from.
Deadelus always seemed TO ME like what the main ship should have been IF developed. I don’t know why but I always thought we should have had a maim ship with a spherical …..saucer section. Think about saucer separation. I think we need a medical show with this as the ship.
3:09, "Oceanic" NOPE! NOT stepping on that one.
The Dragon could have been an interesting support for a fleet. A single alpha strike to wipe out a key enemy vessel (the biggest vessel or command ship) at the start of the engagement could be huge even if it takes the Drqgon mostly out of the fight.
Separately, the Dragon must be considered the spiritual successor to the late 1930s British T-Class submarine, with its ten forward torpedo tubes.
We almost got the time line where all of starfleet built ships in the style of the Daedalus rather then the NX-01.
Would of been cool had the TNG crew found an old relic like the Dragon abandon somewhere in space lol.
So in attempting to build upon the success of the Daedalus class pre and during the romulan earth war. The Okazaki ended up creating technological great white elephants that never did the business and faded in insecurity as the early federation went in another direction re ship design.
I actually can see a very good reason for so many laser cannons on the Dragon, it might look like a stupid design and overkill with all the cannons, and during peacetime it might actually be that, but during a war the extra cannons allows it to rotationally fire to keep the lasers from overheating and burning up, ultimately this leads to more shots fired and more enemy ships disabled and left vulnerable for other Starfleet vessels, if it were to only have 2 laser cannons, you might be able to get 3 repeat shots with the pair or a max of 6 repeat shots with each cannon, but having 8 front cannons quadruples that number of shots before you have to let the system cool off, so I can see a definite strategic advantage, and with an excellent pilot, which they probably made sure of, they could precisely target enemy ships and snipe them one by one till they all are disabled.
So these things work like Batteltech MECHS with the amount of heat they have to manage.
I think the older designs work for pre starfleet designs. Maybe they could have been being used by humans before warp/first contact to settle places in system.
definitely. Warp 1 is hardly much use for travel between star systems
I'm sure the Dragon class was very useful during the war, just a few of those long range sniper ships probably turned the tide of the war, and even though it was basically only a wartime ship, a wartime show about the Dragon class would very interesting to watch, like what life aboard a wartime sniping vessel during wartime would be like, it would be a worthy show to watch, it would even be cool as an anime show.
While I agree that the laser cannons might have a longer range than phaze cannons, the energy disapation at those distances would render them weaker than a phaze cannon. In essence, you're trading range for power. That trade-off, to me, seems negligable in an actual fight. For example: a subsonic round of a higher caliber might not reach as far as a lower caliber supersonic round, but their stopping power of the round would change; a 22 long rifle will reach further than a subsonic round, but you'd need a lot more of them to take down a target than you would a single shot from a subsonic round once in range.
I wonder how many *space dollars* these two design cost
Are they the First Descendants?
Yes, the Moskva was innovative and showed how starships should be built on scale, the Dragon is nothing but a complete and utter hot mess.
Im wondering now exactly what happened to the franchises in the future of star Trek continuity, that actually would be an interesting topic to explore. Did they finally fade away or did they adapt to the changes and thrive in this future. I would imagine that McDonald's would have been very popular in the first few decades of the replication era. Most necessities are provided for anyone and everyone so even the most destitute are provided with food, clothing, shelter and medical attention but there was also a credit system for those who wanted to have more than just the necessities.
Replicators would probably remove the need for fast food, not to mention changes to the economy so that people savour food.
Less McDonald's more pop's grillhouse
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Yes but you also have replicator specific designated areas like replimats, who's to say that whatever is left of the fast food chains didn't simply operate specific novelty replimats. Their roles as actual franchises might be meaningless at this point, but you could have places you can go to experience what life was like in our time. Not just fast food, it's just an example, but I think it's a topic worth exploring as a whole.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 We at least know that FedEx survived until the beginning of the federation so stuff like that, but it would be fun to speculate about other franchises.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 I just thought of one other topic, things like heirlooms and ancestral ownership are still in place by the 25th century, I'm speaking of course about Chateau Pickard Vinyard and brand. That is a good topic and right up your alley actually.
The Dragon is hilarious honestly
Great Stuff! It's not easy to reconcile different universes, and Star Trek is particularly inconsistent.
i've been wondering lately, what's the difference between having the warp nacels at the front vx the back of a star ship?
Okay, that you didn't have a clip of "SPACEBALLS!" during the videos feels like a "mist opportunity"
(So, how many people will think I used mist instead of missed accidentally instead of intentionally...? I bloody quoted that phrase)
They should have instead fast tracked new antimatter reactor cores for the Moskva and do quick refits.
Insist that the warp 5 program hand over the designs or even build the cores themselves to fit the specifications of the Moskva class, on the grounds that "We're _fighting for our species_ (and allies), so F your copyright and technological confidentiality."
As for the Dragon class, while building extra antimatter powered Moskva's (with upgrades allowed by the extra energy output) would have been more sensible during a war, the Dragons design could still work with some modifications.
Swap out half the lasers for phase cannons, and it's got combat versatility. Hits with all the lasers firing at long range, and at closer range switching to the phase cannons. In an emergency fire everything for a short time.
As for cooling, extend the four pylons joining the two for each nacelle into one broad pylon. That would provide _a lot_ of surface area for cooling, and right near the reactor and drives where the heat is concentrated. That might even allow all weapons to be fired continuously without heat issues.
Throw in a large inventory of missiles, allowed by the very large volume, and also extra missile launchers, and you've got a ship that can deal out punishment in any situation.
Dealing the hurt at extreme range and able to increase the hurt should an enemy manage to get closer.
16:56 At this point I can’t help but think about Battletech. After all why shouldn’t I push the fire every thing button. Sure my Nova Prime would be hotter than the sun but the enemy is now a scorch mark.