As an ex heavy haulage and tow truck operator for 30+ years, most people need to understand that not all vehicles are the same and they differ immensely and each person needs to know the ratings of their vehicle before they purchase items for their recovery gear as one does NOT fit all.. I totally agree with what you have said here and you have a good setup Karl. Great stuff, keep the good vids coming.
That was excellent Karl! No implosion, explosion or replosion! It made sense! Yes, I've made an appointment to see the shrink. I was looking at the triple line pull and I see the force applied to the truck is 11t + 22t = 33t - have I understood that right? Finally how do you stow all that recovery gear - especially the JD 5090EN - never seen that stowed in the truck! The bit about packing the spare bearings is a great tip - never considered that. Normally they are designed to sit on a shelf, not bounce around in a draw over corrugation etc. So you are a sparky...hmmm, I have a few jobs for you :) (Bet you've never heard that before).
About the merch...many channels have it these days, and I understand why, but can I ask you a favour? Can you look for and make available really useful and high quality stuff, like good hats, walking boots, japara, maybe even recovery gear (for 4x4's not so much trucks)?
Gday Benny, You are correct, force is 33t. You will be surprised how much effort is required to remove a vehicle from a thick bog. All of our recovery gear is in one of the draws in the canopy. It all fits, just in. 👍
Yes, we agree. That is why we started with the calendars, we thought at least they are useful, and possibly a good gift. We will see how they go, and then ?
Thanks guys, a really great rundown on recovery gear for heavier vehicles and some of the physics involved. My head is pretty resilient when it comes to this stuff, J took a breather though 🤷🏼♀️ We ran into exactly the same issue you did when buying for the Canter with people willing to sell equipment that just wasn't rated for the task. I think some of it comes down to other comments I've made about truck-based touring still being a relatively 'bespoke' way to do things, and the broader 4x4 industry is unlikely to be able to deal effectively with the relatively low volumes concerned. We actually carry a set of rated high tensile towing chains for tree dragging and other jobs. They might be slight overkill and a bit heavy, but at least we know they are up to the task. It looks like a gorgeous spot to lay up for a while, even though we know you are working while there. We're looking forward to the next video, no matter what you choose to share it will be good to watch. Safe stay, A&J
Hi hope your powering on getting the truck ready for when lockdown ends. I thought I was going to need to have a breath when I was recording 😂😂 so much information. It was good for me making the diagram as it helped me to understand what the hell he was talking about. I have a few ideas for next week 👍 stay safe cheers Katty and Karl
Not boring at all. Just the info I need as I take delivery of my 2012 Isuzu Nps300 4X4 motorhome in 2 weeks time. Great truck only done138000km. But no recovery gear or wenches haha. So now planning the upgrades so your channel has been really helpful. Cheers and hope you are free to travel soon.
@@nowhereboundtouring Yeah.... chaffing at the bit .. A question... What tyres are you running now and what happened to the Black bears? I am planning the upgrade to supper singles.
Hi Karl, currently in the process of upgrading from a GQ Patrol to a Hino FT500 (ie 4x4, 10t truck to tow the van) so appreciate your video on what recovery gear you have sourced and where from. Was also considering snow/mud chains but will most likely opt to let the tyres down initially (onboard air to re-inflate) until I see your review on how these chains perform vs reducing tyre pressures. I'm running highway tyres but are full size truck tyres (9.00x22) so has a lot of capacity to reduce pressure.
Gday Steve, That tyre size is very good for a great selection in tyre types, so you are lucky with that. The chains will way out perform tyres with just reduced pressure in mud ( not sand or rock climbing). They are no comparison to even mud tyres, that is why the majority of wood harvesting machines run chains in bad conditions. The only drawback is you have to fit and remove them - dirty job and takes time. Vehicle speed is also limited when fitted. Cheers, karl
If you live in south west sydney, your recovery gear does hang off and all over your truck to look good. So good, its still all brand new hahaha. They have a lot of gear but no idear.
Well done on the review, I went to the sunny coast the other day looking at a truck the same as yours things are looking good just waiting on prices now cheers Amos 👍🍻🇦🇺
Hi Greg, I assume you mean when doing a double or triple line winch pull- you just use your front recovery point to attach the cable or second snatch (pulley) block. You should have two front recovery points fitted. Cheers, Karl
It looks like your winch ropes and extension are Dyneema polyethylene. Have you evaluated the matching snatch rings instead of the very heavy steel snatch blocks?
Hi Jebw, Yes, I tried to get suitably rated ones, but they do not produce any for 11t +. I was going to replace my second block with one to save weight.
Gday frank it is 11 tonne rope from a rope maker in car run downs Victoria think it was called witnells must have an abn to purchase. It was the biggest rope without going to commercial shipping rope. Hope this helps cheers Karl
I appreciate that everyone is entitled to do what they like with their equipment however I cringe when I see people on the internet suggesting that you can use equipment beyond its rating.
Hi Trevor, The equipment I have is SWL not breaking strain. All recovery equipment for standard 4WD is rated in breaking strain ( not for commercial or industrial applications), but I’m sure you are aware of this. All of my gear will be operating well within the limit of my winch, and winch cable, with a fair amount of safety margin. Cheers, karl
@@nowhereboundtouring Karl I know you know what you're doing but there will be people watching your vids that would take the Safety margin angle as justification for going lighter in WLL to save a few bucks or KGs in a set up.
Your gear is still under sized for your rig. Recovery load limit is only double the Working load limit. You still need a 2x safety factor. You should NEVER load anything past half breaking strain. If your winch is 11t you need a snatch block with a 22t RLL or a 11t WLL. Same with your tree protector and shackles. It's close as you would be setting it up as a basket so it would be rated at 20t RLL but you need 22t . You need a 12 t bow to join the ends of the strap to the snatch block. Your winch should always be the limiting factor in your rigging.
Looking at your so called three line pull, it has a moving pulley so the mechanical advantage will be 2. This means the effort on your winch will only be 5.5tons to move an 11 ton weight. In fact as it is not lifting it also has the mechanical advantage of the wheels and axles rolling. This is all based on a dead pull on flat ground.
Hi Jim, there are two pulleys that move on the three line pull so the truck speed moving forward is multiplied by 1/3 and results in the increase of winch capacity multiplied by 3/1 due to the reduced forward motion of the truck and same winch winding speed.
@@stevewilliams5624 there is one pulley fixed to the tree. It can not move. Only one pulley is moving so it is an advantage of 2. The force required is halved.
Hi Jim, You are correct and wrong. Steve has it right with his explanation. There’s is only one moving pulley, but the winch itself is moving forward relative to the fixed pulley, so it has the same effect. Unfortunately you normally don’t use your winch on flat ground, so the loads can be greater than a simple straight lift. I.e. there is so much mud and suction that the load will be more than the vehicle weight. Cheers, Karl.
Why do you use, what you call a double line pull. This has no mechanical advantage and is exactly the same as your single line pull. A fixed single pulley, can only redirect the angle of the rope, not give any mechanical advantage.
Hi Jim, thats not correct. If the winch winds in say 3m of rope per minute. On a single line pull the truck moves forward at 3m per minute. For a double pull the winch still winds at 3m per minute. The other end is fixed to the truck also and the rope is free to rotate on the pulley to allow the rope to change length as it shortens on the winch end. That means the truck moves forward at half the speed (2 line pull still winds in the same amount of rope at the winch end). This will cause the truck to travel forward at half the speed, so for this example is 3m per minute x 1/2 = 1.5m per minute. Because the speed is multiplied by 1/2, the force on the truck is multiplied by 2/1 so increases the winch capacity (ie: 2/1 =2 so 2 x 11 ton is now 22 ton).
@@stevewilliams5624 Steve, there is no mechanical advantage. The force required on both sides of the pulley is equal. The distance the rope travels on both sides is equal. This is just a redirection set up.
@@jimbrown4372 your idea of a redirection is if the winch cable goes through the block/pulley and then terminated on another tree or anchor. That results in 1m of winch cable moving the truck one meter. Where as in this example (the double line pull) the cable is terminating back to the truck - resulting in every metre of winch cable moving the truck only half a metre. That's why there is a 2:1 advantage.
My head did NOT implode, I like that kind of stuff. Good info. Cheers Steve
Great that your head was ok, is all your gear up to the task?
Cheers, karl
@@nowhereboundtouring my gear is up to it too
👍
Best down to earth 4WD recovery video I’ve watched in my life 💪🚀😜 💕 from New Zealand 🇳🇿
So glad that enjoy our content and our differences 😂😂 thanks for watching across the ditch 🍻
thank you for the great full detail video as great see do with a heavy 4x4 truck true right gear to carry
Thanks Robert.
You give a sobering indication of the serious pressures involved in winching and the looming hazards of getting it wrong Karl. Good instruction mate.
Thanks Terry, we appreciate your support.
Cheers, karl
My head did implode but hubby lapped up every word!
Hi Therese,
I’m glad you lasted, and hubby liked it. Thanks for watching.
Cheers, karl
As an ex heavy haulage and tow truck operator for 30+ years, most people need to understand that not all vehicles are the same and they differ immensely and each person needs to know the ratings of their vehicle before they purchase items for their recovery gear as one does NOT fit all.. I totally agree with what you have said here and you have a good setup Karl. Great stuff, keep the good vids coming.
👍
We received our calendar thank you. The images are magical. So inspiring. Love it ❤ xxx
Thanks Heidi. 👍
You explained everything really well. Excellent stuff!
Thanks Andrew.
Most informative vids ever, so so good! Thx for sharing!
We are glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Cheers 👍
Great video well explained cheers.
👍
That was excellent Karl! No implosion, explosion or replosion! It made sense! Yes, I've made an appointment to see the shrink.
I was looking at the triple line pull and I see the force applied to the truck is 11t + 22t = 33t - have I understood that right?
Finally how do you stow all that recovery gear - especially the JD 5090EN - never seen that stowed in the truck!
The bit about packing the spare bearings is a great tip - never considered that. Normally they are designed to sit on a shelf, not bounce around in a draw over corrugation etc.
So you are a sparky...hmmm, I have a few jobs for you :) (Bet you've never heard that before).
About the merch...many channels have it these days, and I understand why, but can I ask you a favour? Can you look for and make available really useful and high quality stuff, like good hats, walking boots, japara, maybe even recovery gear (for 4x4's not so much trucks)?
Gday Benny,
You are correct, force is 33t. You will be surprised how much effort is required to remove a vehicle from a thick bog.
All of our recovery gear is in one of the draws in the canopy. It all fits, just in. 👍
Yes, we agree. That is why we started with the calendars, we thought at least they are useful, and possibly a good gift. We will see how they go, and then ?
@@nowhereboundtouring including the John Deere? (Did you pick up on that part of the comment?)
Ahhh, I could not work it out…….
No, that won’t fit.
Thanks guys, a really great rundown on recovery gear for heavier vehicles and some of the physics involved. My head is pretty resilient when it comes to this stuff, J took a breather though 🤷🏼♀️
We ran into exactly the same issue you did when buying for the Canter with people willing to sell equipment that just wasn't rated for the task. I think some of it comes down to other comments I've made about truck-based touring still being a relatively 'bespoke' way to do things, and the broader 4x4 industry is unlikely to be able to deal effectively with the relatively low volumes concerned. We actually carry a set of rated high tensile towing chains for tree dragging and other jobs. They might be slight overkill and a bit heavy, but at least we know they are up to the task.
It looks like a gorgeous spot to lay up for a while, even though we know you are working while there. We're looking forward to the next video, no matter what you choose to share it will be good to watch.
Safe stay, A&J
Hi hope your powering on getting the truck ready for when lockdown ends. I thought I was going to need to have a breath when I was recording 😂😂 so much information. It was good for me making the diagram as it helped me to understand what the hell he was talking about.
I have a few ideas for next week 👍
stay safe cheers Katty and Karl
Great vid guys
Thanks mike
Not boring at all. Just the info I need as I take delivery of my 2012 Isuzu Nps300 4X4 motorhome in 2 weeks time.
Great truck only done138000km.
But no recovery gear or wenches haha.
So now planning the upgrades so your channel has been really helpful.
Cheers and hope you are free to travel soon.
Gday VV,
Glad you found it helpful. I’m sure you are keen for the new truck to arrive😀
@@nowhereboundtouring Yeah.... chaffing at the bit .. A question... What tyres are you running now and what happened to the Black bears? I am planning the upgrade to supper singles.
@@nowhereboundtouring Just found your tyre review in the last vid. Cheers
No worries, if you have any questions, just let us know👍
Thanks guys for the info and the level of details. Hope to see you one day on the road one day for truck dates :)
Gday Wood whoop,
A truck date one day would be good. Give us a shout if you are ever around our location.
Great review, excellent information thanks.
Thanks,
Cheers, karl
Hi Karl, currently in the process of upgrading from a GQ Patrol to a Hino FT500 (ie 4x4, 10t truck to tow the van) so appreciate your video on what recovery gear you have sourced and where from. Was also considering snow/mud chains but will most likely opt to let the tyres down initially (onboard air to re-inflate) until I see your review on how these chains perform vs reducing tyre pressures. I'm running highway tyres but are full size truck tyres (9.00x22) so has a lot of capacity to reduce pressure.
Gday Steve,
That tyre size is very good for a great selection in tyre types, so you are lucky with that.
The chains will way out perform tyres with just reduced pressure in mud ( not sand or rock climbing). They are no comparison to even mud tyres, that is why the majority of wood harvesting machines run chains in bad conditions. The only drawback is you have to fit and remove them - dirty job and takes time. Vehicle speed is also limited when fitted.
Cheers, karl
If you live in south west sydney, your recovery gear does hang off and all over your truck to look good. So good, its still all brand new hahaha. They have a lot of gear but no idear.
Hey Stealth,
Happens all the time …😀
Well done on the review, I went to the sunny coast the other day looking at a truck the same as yours things are looking good just waiting on prices now cheers Amos 👍🍻🇦🇺
Good luck with it all, give us a shout if we can help.
Cheers, karl
@@nowhereboundtouring yes I definitely will have a chat with you guys about the truck I appreciate your input cheers Amos 👍🍻🇦🇺
Thanks for the video, can you let me and others know how you attached the winch second line to the truck please
Hi Greg,
I assume you mean when doing a double or triple line winch pull- you just use your front recovery point to attach the cable or second snatch (pulley) block.
You should have two front recovery points fitted.
Cheers, Karl
I missed your live! Watching now :)
👍hope u liked it.
It looks like your winch ropes and extension are Dyneema polyethylene. Have you evaluated the matching snatch rings instead of the very heavy steel snatch blocks?
Hi Jebw,
Yes, I tried to get suitably rated ones, but they do not produce any for 11t +. I was going to replace my second block with one to save weight.
pulling horizontally, the load would be at max, the rating on the winch, nothing to do with the weight of the vehicle, right?
Yes, that is correct. I would be very surprised if the winch could pull over it’s stated capacity.
👍
Hi Karl, great video mate. Just about to order some gear you recommend and i was wondering what rating that 50m rope is. Thanks
Gday frank it is 11 tonne rope from a rope maker in car run downs Victoria think it was called witnells must have an abn to purchase. It was the biggest rope without going to commercial shipping rope. Hope this helps cheers Karl
Recovery and spares are only boring till you NEED them
Yep, true 👍
I appreciate that everyone is entitled to do what they like with their equipment however I cringe when I see people on the internet suggesting that you can use equipment beyond its rating.
Hi Trevor,
The equipment I have is SWL not breaking strain. All recovery equipment for standard 4WD is rated in breaking strain ( not for commercial or industrial applications), but I’m sure you are aware of this. All of my gear will be operating well within the limit of my winch, and winch cable, with a fair amount of safety margin.
Cheers, karl
@@nowhereboundtouring Karl I know you know what you're doing but there will be people watching your vids that would take the Safety margin angle as justification for going lighter in WLL to save a few bucks or KGs in a set up.
👍
Your gear is still under sized for your rig. Recovery load limit is only double the Working load limit. You still need a 2x safety factor. You should NEVER load anything past half breaking strain. If your winch is 11t you need a snatch block with a 22t RLL or a 11t WLL. Same with your tree protector and shackles. It's close as you would be setting it up as a basket so it would be rated at 20t RLL but you need 22t . You need a 12 t bow to join the ends of the strap to the snatch block. Your winch should always be the limiting factor in your rigging.
.
Looking at your so called three line pull, it has a moving pulley so the mechanical advantage will be 2. This means the effort on your winch will only be 5.5tons to move an 11 ton weight. In fact as it is not lifting it also has the mechanical advantage of the wheels and axles rolling. This is all based on a dead pull on flat ground.
Hi Jim, there are two pulleys that move on the three line pull so the truck speed moving forward is multiplied by 1/3 and results in the increase of winch capacity multiplied by 3/1 due to the reduced forward motion of the truck and same winch winding speed.
@@stevewilliams5624 there is one pulley fixed to the tree. It can not move. Only one pulley is moving so it is an advantage of 2. The force required is halved.
Hi Jim,
You are correct and wrong. Steve has it right with his explanation.
There’s is only one moving pulley, but the winch itself is moving forward relative to the fixed pulley, so it has the same effect.
Unfortunately you normally don’t use your winch on flat ground, so the loads can be greater than a simple straight lift. I.e. there is so much mud and suction that the load will be more than the vehicle weight.
Cheers, Karl.
Why do you use, what you call a double line pull. This has no mechanical advantage and is exactly the same as your single line pull. A fixed single pulley, can only redirect the angle of the rope, not give any mechanical advantage.
Hi Jim, thats not correct. If the winch winds in say 3m of rope per minute. On a single line pull the truck moves forward at 3m per minute.
For a double pull the winch still winds at 3m per minute. The other end is fixed to the truck also and the rope is free to rotate on the pulley to allow the rope to change length as it shortens on the winch end.
That means the truck moves forward at half the speed (2 line pull still winds in the same amount of rope at the winch end).
This will cause the truck to travel forward at half the speed, so for this example is 3m per minute x 1/2 = 1.5m per minute. Because the speed is multiplied by 1/2, the force on the truck is multiplied by 2/1 so increases the winch capacity (ie: 2/1 =2 so 2 x 11 ton is now 22 ton).
@@stevewilliams5624 Steve, there is no mechanical advantage. The force required on both sides of the pulley is equal. The distance the rope travels on both sides is equal. This is just a redirection set up.
👍
@@jimbrown4372 your idea of a redirection is if the winch cable goes through the block/pulley and then terminated on another tree or anchor. That results in 1m of winch cable moving the truck one meter.
Where as in this example (the double line pull) the cable is terminating back to the truck - resulting in every metre of winch cable moving the truck only half a metre. That's why there is a 2:1 advantage.