@@davedogge2280 "The Book of the New Sun", by Gene Wolfe. Bought the whole series. Waste of time and money. This book series led me to the DNF style of reading. Used to finish books for the HOPE of a good payoff, but DNF'd this thing and have not wasted any time DNF'ing others that are in the same style of "Nah....".
Based on your inclusion of books I've read and loved on this list, I'm left with no other option but to use this as my reading guide for the foreseeable future.
I'm with you. Anything he didn't like, I liked (of those I've read). So anything on the list he doesn't like, I'll probably adore. lol But I respect his opinions.
A friend of mine once shared the movie "Casablanca" with a friend who'd never seen the film. When Bogart talks about the start of a beautiful friendship, and the screen faded to black, she told my friend, "It was OK, but everything in it was just a cliche." LotR is similar to that, and that quality is what makes it nearly impossible to be overrated. Tolkien changed literary worldbuilding. Most every fantasy series, that has come after has either been an iteration of this story, or it is a direct reaction to this story. I'd argue that Lord of the Rings is *outside* of the realm of comparison so far as rating story goes. Now, it may not be to everyone's tastes. Hell, Michael Moorcock is very critical of its pacing and stakes. It's not the action-adventure. But it is *DEEP*. Every time I've read through Lord of the Rings (and I've been doing so for the majority of my life), there's something new I discover. A relationship, an evolution, another piece of backstory. LotR rewards multiple readings, from multiple perspectives. So, you mentioned you were gonna get dragged on something in this list. There's my drag.
Yeah that all makes sense and I can appreciate that. I very much believe that Lord of the Rings is by far the most important work of fantasy of all time and it's not even close. But I think many people go too far in their praise of it and take it to hyperbolic levels. I can't tell you how many people have told me that the book still holds up today better than any other fantasy work, and I just can't agree with that. I firmly believe that if it came out today, it wouldn't be a successful book outside of a niche audience - and nor should it since it came out 70ish years ago.
I appreciate your honesty and I'm glad you took this shot/gamble. Great video. I disagree with a number of your picks, but not with your reasons for not liking them. The ones that stand out are Lord of the Rings and Dresden. I absolutely love them both, but they worked so well for me. Not everyone will have my experience. Seriously, great video and hope you don't lose anyone over this. These types of opinion videos should be celebrated.
Thanks for the comment Bryce! Yeah I'm pretty confident that I probably love some books that the other people watching this love. It's just the nature of books!
Lotr is revolutionary. It's a tale about a journey where a simple person sets out to destroy a power and not gain it for himself. Tolkien did not start the fantasy genre, but he refined it he brought a bit of everything from Norse mythology, epic poems such Beowulf other old English literature and created this epic world . Modern fantasy would not be what it is today without Tolkien. Granted, I see where you are coming from if it was released today it would not be as highly rated as let's say malazan series. But in 60 years malazan might be regarded differently as well.
I also have to say that as far as Tolkien, I think for a lot of people (at least it was for me) the first 'fantasy' series I ever read. It got me started on this journey. So I think that if just for that it will always hold a very special place in my heart, and my bookshelf.
Yeah my problem was that I didn't read it for the first time until very recently so I never got that "special place in the heart" that so many others got.
I appreciate your honest reviews. And to answer your Tolkien question, yes they’re my favorite fantasy series. Not because they are the best, but because they were the first truly epic fantasy series I read, and started me down 35 years of fantasy literature. Have I read better? Yes. But none have the same impact as your first love :)
Yeah I think that is largely my problem with these books, as they were not my introduction to fantasy. I only recently read these books after I had already read hundreds of other fantasy works.
About the twist in Broken Earth. I firmly think we are meant to figure it out before the end. I think that N. K. Jemisin was indeed clever in letting us find out at each step of the way. I think this is intended, because finding out in no way lessens the impact of the last pages of the first book, wherehas a Shyamalan style ending would be completely ruined.
Yeah that's a good point. It felt to me at the time that she was trying to be too smart in hiding it (and not well), and given that a lot of people didn't figure it out made me feel like it was intentional.
I’m currently in the third book of the Broken Earth trilogy and these are the most depressing books I have ever read. I read somewhere that people like it for it’s uniqueness, using geology and psychology, but for me it’s just depressing.
I'm 100% with you on Jemisin. I liked some of her world-building, but generally speaking, she is a terrible writer. I really wanted to like her, but was thoroughly disappointed. Her foray into magical realism in The City We Became might actually qualify as the most pretentiously written book I have ever attempted to read. I also agree with you on Sullivan and Lawerence. Even though I strongly disagree with you about LOTR . . I understand why you included it and liked the format of this video 🙂 Keep up the good work sir! Always good to hear honest fantasy reviews
Personally I love Mistborn era 2. I loved how they expanded the world from the first era, I actually prefer the magic system in this one compare to era 1, yes the stories are short but they’re as long as I think they need them to be, and ultimately, it’s just a lot of fun. I wouldn’t go as far as to say that I prefer it to era 1, but saying it’s bad is a hard disagree with me.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews your opinion may change if you read the final good in Era 2 that just came out. It was well done and was very emotional for me.
Agree with everything EXCEPT Lord Of The Rings, IMO LOTR is both the foundation and pinnacle of fantasy. Calling LOTR outdated it’s like saying that the Monalisa is outdated 💁🏻
As you say, LOTR is a historically significant piece of fantasy. It can be compared to Beethoven, who redefined the symphony. Without Tolkien, fantasy might look more like James Branch Cabell, who i can't stand. You must admit that Tolkien can write.
@@MegaFortinbras to admit that someone like Tolkien can write one should first learn how to read it's books, at least understand significance of that writing
i didnt read the books so im saying this just with movie knowledge: calling LOTR pinnacle of fantasy is ridiclous. LOTR doesnt even "fantasy". yes there are other races but there are not! elves are same as humans, dwarfs are smaller humans, main characters are human, orcs are stronger humans. basically except tree peoples and a few magic of gandalf there is no magic in this movies. yes they are good adventure movies but not fantasy. And personally boring.
One does not simply put LOTR in an overrated book list, You are quite brave! I actually love those books. The thing is, you kinda have to read The Hobbit, Lord of The Rings and The Silmarillion to sort of understand what's going on with all the extra names and characters. And there is even more books to cover. It's a big world to understand. You either love it and keep reading through the rest of the books, or you're just done with it as soon as it finishes.
Well the part about Dresden and woman seems to be the biggest struggle of many people with the series and honestly it didn’t bother me at all but I can understand that if you don’t like that part of the books it would be quite hard to continue the series 😂 Personally I love it.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Not that happy with the latest books in the series though. Too high-powered, and he really does not write certain relations there well.. I know that Jim Butcher himself has said that the first 2 books, are so-so, and skippable, as he wasn't that good of a writer back then.
(stunned) You include both the greatest fantasy series of all time, without which this video wouldn't even exist AND arguably the best modern fantasy series (or at least of this century) and call it a trash heap? I guess I want be looking to you for recommendations! :)
I really do like Lord of the Rings, don't get me wrong. I just can't agree with people who say that if it came out today it would be just as popular - something I seriously disagree with. For that reason I find it overrated. Yeah I just can't agree with Fifth Season, I really couldn't find anything redeeming about it, but everyone has different opinions about books. Check out my video with the top 10 best fantasy series, I bet there is a lot there we agree with!
I love LOTR but if I'm being 100% honest, I _always_ struggle on Two Towers part 2. I love the long, detailed journeys through Middle Earth where Tolkien, with his beautiful prose, describes this rustic ancient land. It really gives you the sense that magic still lingers in every corner. The world _is_ a character, one that keeps me engaged...then the latter end of Two Towers is spent in this bleak wasteland, and I have to admit that it does lose a lot of its magic for me at that point Gonna have to disagree with it being overrated, but I absolutely see your point.
Yep, I loved the audiobooks and decided to read through the trilogy a second time after reading the Silmarilion. Fellowship and Towers can be a slog but, in a way, the slog makes Return of the King all the more triumphant. Silmarilion is just words and a hundred indistinguishable names. I read a criticism somewhere that East Asian names are difficult to distinguish for non-native readers and I (eastern european) feel the same way about Tolkien's Feanors, Feagons, Fingons, Finarfins, Finrods, Fingolfins, Finwes, Frelafs... Hurin, Turin, Turgon, Hador...
Interesting, I struggled with Book 1 of Fellowship. I commonly tell people that it took me two months to read Fellowship and two weeks to read Two Towers and Return of the King, combined.
I found your channel when youtube recommended me your review about the Fifth Season. I was reading it at the time and watched your review, said aloud THANK YOU and dnf’d the book about 80 % in. This book tries so hard to be something unique but being SO boring. The story is all over the place and tries too hard in every aspect of storytelling. And you can see the plot twists coming. How could you not when the writingstyle gives them away? Hugo awards? This was one of those books that makes you think that did you really read the same book that everybody else did? Keep up the great work, you have an amazing channel!
Tolkien's Lord of The Rings is pretty much like synonymous with the word Fantasy. Even if someone hasn't read the series but is familiar with the genre the first thing you'll hear in a discussion about fantasy is a Lord of the Rings take.
Agreed, and I do think it's the most important work of fantasy of all time. But I find people who say that it remains the best today given todays standards to be a bit of hyperbole.
@Sit-ins For sithis lol I did the same. The stars for me were an acknowledgement of the quality of the writing and worlbuilding, but personally I didn't enjoy them at all.
A very fair assessment of the books I've read - The Goblin Emperor, The Poppy War (Book 1 only) and The Books of Babel but I respectfully disagree about LOTR. I reread it earlier this year and it holds up as one of the all-time greats imo. YMMV of course.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Was gonna say: The Lord of the Rings is just full of important notions and touching moments. A lot of people want more action -- but that wasn't the point.
Again, the cool thing about opinions, we can all have them 🙂Right? Hmm, I really enjoyed The Broken Empire, and I loved The Red Queen's War. I also really enjoyed the short story collection, Road Brothers, that contains stories about characters from these two trilogies. The main trilogies reflect two sides of a coin, exploring different types of main characters. I think it was really well done. But, I get that it isn't for everyone. Ooh... Mistborn Era 2.... That is a hot take. I loved it. (then again, I love westerns). Did you get the play on words though? About Wax and Wayne? .... LOTR? L O T R? Ok, now I want to go and flip tables... Sorry, you lost me at this point. Dresden Files.... What... -_- yip, you have really lost me on this one man...
Finally someone on booktube shares my thoughts on LotR. I appreciate what it did for the genre, but I don't see the appeal beyond historical significance and a classic fantasy tale. Modern fantasy clearly takes influence from LotR, but modern fantasy is also written much better in my opinion.
I’m surprised that you don’t see any twists in LoTR. Not surprising when Gandalf is killed? Or Boromir being killed? Also disagree that it’s writing being “dated” is a weakness. Considering the style Tolkien uses, he does it quite well. I don’t think they are perfect books, and they may be ‘overrated,’ but mostly in the way that Sanderson is overrated these days. It’s hard to live up to ratings that high. (Fortunately, I read Mistborn 1 before the hype had kicked in. Otherwise, I might have been disappointed in him. Completely agree on Wax and Wayne, however.) On Dresden, I think you should at least acknowledge that Harry’s sexism comes across as a character flaw, and one that even he acknowledges. If that makes it disturbing for a reader, that’s fine. As for character growth, I think you are wrong about that. He definitely changes during the series and in ways I find interesting, since he simultaneously becomes both darker and more noble. That said, if the series hasn’t hooked someone by Dead Beat, then it’s definitely not for them. For the rest of us, Polka will never die.
I 100% agree with the fifth season. I didn’t understand why it was so highly rated. I actually got like a yucky feeling reading that book. It’s hard to explain. I still have the trilogy because I had asked for it for Xmas. But not sure if I’ll ever care to read the other two books. It just didn’t do it for me. Love your honesty!!
I think I made it 20 or 25 pages in and just gave up. I knew the rest of the book was going to be just as bad as the start and I cut my losses early. This is the book/author that "smart" fantasy readers like to throw out there when they want to impress other people. It's crap, everyone knows it's crap, but because you get a nod of approval when you gush about how great it is, fantasy readers pretend to like it. As for the awards....at this point, winning a Hugo Award is a big red flag for me when it comes to reading recommendations. Which is kind of sad, I still re-read "Hyperion" every other year or so and it won the Hugo 30 years ago. But now? Hard pass on Hugo Award winners.
I was pleased the image for #4 was in the middle of the screen because after what you said about the Lord of the Rings I didn't want to see your face. This was a fun video though, thank you.
Consider the publishers of the field, and how they suffer more than you, Matt :-) You could have turned it up to 11 and included Patrick Rothfuss, with regard to whom, I bailed out after less than two pages, yet has sold millions of copies :-)
Yeah, I actually enjoyed his series but partly because it was one of the first fantasy books I ever read and I didn't have much to compare it to. If I read it today I probably would agree with you.
You are completely wrong about LoTR. It is quite simply the finest example of epic high fantasy out there, with the exception of possibly MboTF. It's contribution to modern fantasy alone assures it's place in the pantheon of greats. Entire fantasy prose constructed for the book by a man who was a genius. As for the Dresden Files you are wrong again, it's the premier example of paranormal fantasy, with a protagonist that grows wonderfully alongside the series. I will say books 1 through to four are maybe not the best, but still definitely the best of the paranormal fantasy out there. So much so everything else in the genre seems like it's desperately trying to be the Dresden Files
I agree that it deserves a place in the pantheon of greats, but I just don't think it holds up today as compared to other works that have been released in the past couple decades.
When it comes to LOtR nobody argues with it's influence on the genre and it's great worldbuilding, but all other aspects of the story are mediocre at best, especially by modern standards
For me it's probably Stormlight. I like Stormlight, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's as good as it's reputation. I don't really think Brandon Sandersons prose is that great. Shallan's story feels like a YA story mixed with the much more sophisticated stories of the other two protagonists. Still like a of of it, but having read Malazan, ASOIAF, bit of The Wheel of Time and even Narnia, those are all way better written. I can feel from Brandon's writing that he writes his books as quick as he does.
I didn't like Mark Lawrence's Red Sister book. I'm surprised to hear how popular he is. Also, you have to think of Wax and Wayne as a Victorian Holmes and Watson story instead of seeing it as a Western. It's not Epic Fantasy, it's a detective short novel set in a Fantasy World. I didn't like it at first, but when I saw it for what it is I sort of 'got it'.
Yeah I could see that. It really felt like Wax was the classic western cowboy (but set in a fantasy world). But once he gets to the city I could see it being more of the Watson/Holmes thing.
I think maybe Brandon Sanderson's sense of humor may just not be for everyone, because I think I've laughed out loud to every Mistborn book that's out so far. The way he has the essence of his characters down to a T can make their interactions so funny sometimes because one of them will say something that's just SO them!
I think for me Tolkien is the best fantasy writer because I've never come across another fantasy series which is so rich, and so re-readable. I discover something new every time I come back to it - some subtle point regarding the lore or history, or some connection I missed the last time around, or a piece of prose that just grabs my attention. There just isn't another author in the genre who combines the same level of pure writing skill with such immense worldbuilding. Until someone else spends an entire lifetime building a world, and unless that person also happens to be as skilled a writer as Tolkien, I just don't see anyone topping him. Pratchett comes a close second to Tolkien for similar reasons - I'm rewarded every time I re-read them. As I get older, the Discworld books give more and more back, and that is such a special thing. I find that many of the super popular modern writers like Sanderson, whilst good, just don't make my top 10 because they don't reward re-reads. They write exciting stories, they have interesting characters, some even have good prose, but if you've experienced almost everything there is to experience after one or two readings, then for me it just isn't a capital G 'Great' book. It might be an excellent book, but not great.
You are dead wrong about LOTR. And if you admit yourself that fantasy as we know it wouldn't exist without it, you have answered yourself the reason why it's so revered. And if it's dated, it's because you are decontextualising and forgetting the fact that Tolkien started writing it almost a century ago. You are right about Dresden but wrong about the reasons. Harry is not sexist but he is a rubbish detective and the whole noir air of the books falls flat.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews you are right and that is the very reason you are wrong. As I said, you are decontextualising. You cannot say that if Chaplin made his movies today they wouldn't be as successful as they were because you'd be missing the point altogether.
@@JosesAmazingWorldsI mean you aren't wrong if people were claiming that's why the books are great, but I consistently hear from people that think the books still hold up today using modern standards, compared to modern fantasy books - a statement I wholeheartedly disagree with.
@@JosesAmazingWorlds some examples: Malazan, First Law, Realm of the Elderlings, Stormlight Archive, All John Gwynne books, the first 3 A Song of Ice and Fire books
Yeah I hear that, but the originality was a problem for me because I don't think the book is nearly as good as the historical fiction of this real life event.
While I love the Books Of Babel, (personal top 10 favourite series); I love this video. Finally someone with the guts to take these holy cows and give them a dressing down. I appreciate the honesty and for the most part I agree with your list. Great video.
Hey Matt, you broke my heart with some of these (Fifth season) and others I whole heartedly agree(Poppy War). I think the reason you didn't like the fifth season because you didn't get to the end but I know I won't be able to convince you. That said you sure started some discussions!! The thing I wanted to add was you should consider reading some novellas and see how you feel about things.
Yeah I was already done with Fifth Season by that point (~80%) that nothing would have saved it for me. I have read some novellas, but I'm almost always not very interested in them as I really like epic fantasy - so in general the longer the book the more likely I am to like it.
This is going to seem like a bunch of complaints - and I'm sorry. I genuinely liked the video!! I like the premise of this video, but really it should be called 'book series' I didn't finish' or 'book series' that didn't do what I wanted'. That there are things about these books you don't like is one thing, to say they're over-rated because of that opinion is another. Particularly if you're going by Goodreads reviews - which *other readers* give - not reviewers, not literature professors, not book critics. Many of the series you talk about, you chose not to finish - which is an unrecognized 'reader ultimate super-power'. So while figuring out a plot twist, or disliking a direction a storyline is headed is an excellent reason to stop - it's not a reason to say that any of the books are "bad". I have borderline third degree burns from the hot-takes in this video, and the further into the countdown we went, the more worried I became for my own favourite series', thankfully, they weren't mentioned. I was gob-smacked that you would call *Tolkien* over-rated though, when the specific, extended Middle-Earth universe books you discuss, are usually only consumed by a small sub-set of fantasy readers anyway, and the 'main' body of his work The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings, are consistently on lists of best books *in general* all over the world. Finally, on Dresden, I don't blame you for giving up, if you don't like Harry, there's no reason to continue. For me though (and I'm an angry 40+yr old feminist), yes, I struggled with early Dresden. I grudgingly trusted people who were intent that I continue though, and persevered. I can happily say Dresden is now one of my favourite series' and I'm about to start my third re-read of the entire story. Keep doing what you're doing - criticism helps keep quality high.
Yeah I totally hear you, but I want to clarify a few things. I'm not just going off goodreads reviews, I'm basing it off what I have heard from friends, social media, reddit, youtube, etc. Most of the books on this list are very highly regarded across all platforms. Regarding Lord of the Rings, for the reason that it's almost universally regarded as the best fantasy book of all time is why it's on this list. While I really enjoy it, I do not think it's as good as the vast majority of people think it is. It's definitely my most "liked" book on this top 10.
I'm right there with you on Broken Earth. I've tried a few times because of how well received the series is but I just can't get through book 1. The writing style is just not for me. I don't feel any connection to the characters at all either which is a pretty big factor in my enjoyment of a story.
I really liked it! Don't agree with some of the picks, but congratulations for the courage and honesty. I think that we need to be sincere abou our opinions not just compliment something because everybody does and I hope to see more stuff like this in your channel. You won a subscriber not lose one.
I disagreed with most of the books on this list. But I'm removing my dislike because I remembered that not agreeing with me isn't an attack on me. The ones I disagreed with were the Ryira, Mistborn, LOTR, and Dresden files. If they're not to your taste that's your own deal.
I don't think it's too harsh to say Lord of the Rings is overrated. This reminds me of a stupid argument with a friend years ago. He tried to say the inventor of basketball was more talented at basketball than Michael Jordan.
This was an interesting video, to say the least! I dont agree with you on 90% of the video, but you keep them coming. I am shit bored of top 10 fantasy book series lists that all look same or similar. Loved your video! :)
I haven't read Prince of Thorns, but multiple plot lines is what makes a book more interesting. I can't say a whole about it since I've yet to read it, but that is a horrible take. Following one POV is boring.
Spoilers -- I really enjoyed the Tower of Babel series but also was hoping for a few levels per book as well. I really don’t understand the love for fifth season either. The world building and setting is cool but the characters are really wooden and unbelievable. The twist was really obvious from early on with some big clues so I’m not sure if it was an intentional twist or not but regardless the last arc on the island really dragged the already slow pace and became a more soap opera jealous of sleeping with random tribes people ect I just couldn’t believe how bad it was.
Christ this is basically a "let me pick some of the most popular books and call them overrated, that'll generate clicks" video. The fact you put LotR, Murderbot, Brandon Sanderson, Jim Butcher and N K Jeminsin speaks volumes, that series by Jeminsin is the only trilogy to ever see each volume win the Hugo so that's the most laughably transparent evidence of what you're doing.
No they are just books that I didn't rate very high when reviewing them. I review a ton of books, and my list of favorite series includes a bunch of books that are also wildly popular (like Sanderson, Erikson, Abercrombie, Hobb, etc.) All of these books have in depth reviews from me on either Goodreads or UA-cam, or both.
My worst and most disappointing was Malazan. I read the first book and about 80% of Deadhouse Gates and just had to quit when I realized I didn't care about anything going on or any of the characters. None of them seemed well fleshed out and it's hard to keep reading when the characters seemed so flat.
I definitely disagree with some of your picks here (LotR is only more fantastic every time I read it and I actually enjoyed the Fifth Season!) but I can’t fault an honest sharing of your opinion!! The most overrated series for me at the moment has got to, sadly, be the stormlight archive. I enjoyed the Mistborn trilogy and I wanted to love it but Stormlight left me pretty lukewarm, undoubtedly good moments but the books were very overlong and bloated to me, and I felt like the characters would pop more if the page count were reduced and the prose characterized them more impactfully (think the way Abercrombie paints characters so vividly and quickly)-as they are they feel like they go in circles too much, when less would be far more. Maybe I’ll give them another try someday and my opinion will change though, with so many other books to read I’m not sure when that’ll be however 🤔
Okay, seriously... While you're busy criticizing a book that's closing in on 100 years old and the single most beloved fantasy series Ever... Try to quit rolling your eyes like a 13-year-old girl. Also, just to say: Saying that LotR is "overrated" is just stupid. You may as well start off by saying you think "Macbeth" or "Hamlet" are overrated.
Thanks for the comment, I wasn't aware of the eye rolling but I'll try to chill out on that. To be honest, if people claimed that Macbeth or Hamlet are as good as modern great plays using today's standards, I would absolutely say they are overrated. But I never hear that. I think LotR is the most important fantasy book of all time by a long shot, just as I think Citizen Kane is the most important movie. But they are not as good as modern works and if they came out today I don't think they would be celebrated even a fraction of the amount they were when they were released. For some reason, the large majority of people I talk to about fantasy books claims that LotR, if it came out today, would still be one of the best fantasy books. I disagree, which is why I believe it is overrated.
I don't have a lot in common with my 70 year old dad, but he likes fantasy and Mistborn a lot. He loves era 2 bc of the western feel, but I have the same opinion as Matt and kind of find them hard to get into. If my old man likes it though, I'll keep getting them for him and keep reading them too.
When everyone on the planet (except, apparently, you?) universally agrees that a writer and series is the best ever - Lord of the Rings - then clearly it isn't "over rated". You lost any shred of credibility w/ me at that point!
Check out the comments here, there are a ton of people who agree with me. I like the series and think it's the most important fantasy work of all time. But it doesn't hold up for me by today's standards compared to many other fantasy works.
Damnnn. Obviously you can criticize any book (and should) but calling the Broken Earth trilogy a “trash heap” is objectively wrong. Usually I wouldn’t mind the hyperbole but…I mean, just purely on a technical level you cannot call it a trash heap, regardless of whether or not you enjoyed its story or characters
I loved Legends of the First Empire, but I can tell why some people may not like it. In fact, when I read the first volume I was confused because I had expected it to be quite 'realistic', but the dialogues and the humour sounded contemporary, the series of inventions was gimmicky... And then, reading the following volumes, I realised the author had never had the intention of making the story 'realistic', but to explore certain themes - and the characters were great! I'm a character-driven reader and I had to go back to my initial assessment of the first volume and change my rating.
Lack of twists in LOTR? I know that it's hard to recognize in retrospect, or perhaps you saw the movies first, but Boromir's death? Frodo being stung by Shelob? Frodo choosing not to throw the ring in? Gandalf's return? Eowyn slaying the witch king? I mean I can go on...
I don't find those to be twists, they are plot developments and surprises. A twist is when the story materially changes and things you previously knew to be true are no longer.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Oh you look at it that way... well in that case I'm in agreement. There aren't necessarily any twists as such. I've always thought of twists as major events that are unforseen and shake the very structure established to be the story forcing you to reconsider your expectations. But per your definition, I certainly agree.
For some reason, I was expecting to see Malazan Book of the Fallen on here. Its an ok-ish series. It did get me involved/excited in some parts and the scope of the world is grand, but my overall feeling was meh. The reviews for it make it seem like it is the best thing ever - and it was not for me. I would rather go through the entire Cosmere or the wheel of time again, than reread one of the Malazan series.
Yeah Malazan absolutely isn't for everyone. I find people either LOVE it, or are "meh" about it. I don't think I've ever heard someone say they just like it.
I finally got to the end of the first book and holy crap, was that some tough sledding. The last quarter of the book was definitely better than the first three-quarters, so it finished strong-ish. Just started the second book and it seems like a better story already, so hopefully that is a good sign. And thank god for internet maps, because good detailed maps for epic fantasy are almost mandatory (one thing that Tolkien did very well in LOTR). Here's crossing my fingers for the rest of the series....
To be honest, I really love the first three books - and thought the 4th and 5th were good but with some major problems. It could have been on this list a handful of years ago, but with how much of a blunder the show was I think the books have taken a serious hit in how much they are rated by the average fantasy fan.
I've literally never heard anyone ever say Mistborn era 2 is better than era 1. This is the first time I have ever heard this opinion. I don't think it's controversial at all to say it's worse.
I wonder if the level of a books enjoyment changes depending on whether the book/series is read or listened to. I'm 100% audio and haven't read a printed book in years. I liked Wayne in Mistborn but that could be because the narrator uses the same voice and accent for Wayne as he does for Lopen in Stormlight. The Lopen is one of my all-time favorite characters so I went into Mistborn with a built in bias towards liking Wayne. I have no idea if I would like Wayne's character as much in print.
Yeah I've noticed that I tend to give lower scores to audiobooks, but I'm not sure if that means I like them less, or just because of the books that I have decided to read via audiobook are just not as good.
Hello Matt! I can not thank you enough for your honest opinion, especially about The Dresden Files. Like you, I pushed myself to read these books, also in audiobooks, during my brisk walking in the mornings. I thought I was the only one who thought he had nothing on his head but sex. I stopped at number 3. Now I enjoy my morning exercise again!
I have to agree with you on all of these (that I've read anyway). Our similar tastes in books is why I follow you. I did like Dresden Files when I was younger, but going back to it, it's nothing special. I'm guessing a lot of these big hype books come from teens who are easily pleased.
I understand why you would think Tolkein is overrated. But I also think you're looking at it the wrong way. The prose even at the time was written in an antiquated style. But the hero's journey is timeless, and still widely used today. The world building is unparalleled even by today's standards. The races he included while feeling overdone to a modern reader, were definitely not when they were written. His work is the template from which all modern fantasy was created. It's like saying the Model T Ford was overrated. Are there better cars made today? Sure. But to compare them with a Model T is unfair. Basically, Tolkein stands in a category by himself. I think it might be more constructive to point out the flaws and how modern writers addressed them. The character building, for example, was weak. Sam has depth. But most of the cast shows little in the way of growth. Or the way he focuses on landscapes and atmosphere to a point it can pull you out of the story. But even Tolkien's shortcomings helped to build the genre. We build better characters now. Most descriptions are a bit tamer, the writers aware of the importance of pacing. Anyway, that's all I have for today.
Yeah you make a good point, and I agree that the story is timeless. I just think that if you take out the history of the book and read the book for what it is today, it doesn't hold up compared to the modern day greats.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews That's just it, though. It shouldn't suffer that comparison. Take Asimov's work in sci-fi. Brilliant for the time. But the prose was lacking as was the character building. You can't compare it to The Expanse in any meaningful way. But to understand the journey sci-fi has taken, it's important to read for what it is. Not for what it isn't. Even Dune. The prose was getting better in sci-fi, but great Godilla's Gonads, the head jumping drove me nuts. But it was an important work that helped modern sci-fi flourish and develop.
@@therenegadebard3971 In my opinion you are correct if my list was "Most defining work" or even "Best overall" - but I'm talking about in terms of overrated/underrated. Given that I very regularly see people claim that Lord of the Rings as it stands today is better than all other fantasy books, I find that inaccurate personally.
Don't get me wrong. Your opinion is completely valid and I get where you're coming from. There are several beloved and wildly popular series I find impossible to get through. I can't mention them by name because there is a 100% chance I'll run into the authors and I can't have that sort of thing out there for one of their fans to find. It can cause an after-convention drinking session at the hotel bar to go sideways in a hurry. But still, every time I hear how wonderful the books are, I want to scream "No, it's not! It's complete shit. Shit, I say. Shiiiiiiit."
With the amount of books you read, and so quickly, do you stuggle to read continuations in a series without forgetting the previous read book? Especially if it was 1+ year ago you read the previous book
No, but it's because I take notes while I read for books that don't have the next one out yet. Just the main things so that I don't forget when the next book comes out. If I'm reading a series that already has the next book out, I usually read the next one within a month or two.
@@prymespyder Yeah I really like the hype machine for books and to discuss it with people who are reading it for the first time. I also don't mind reading a series that may never finish. Obviously I love it when they finish, but I don't regret my time with A Song of Ice and Fire, Kingkiller Chronicle, and Gentleman Bastards.
Omg I agree with you about the Fifth Season! I tried so many times with this book and I just hated it so much, but I kept feeling like it’s not the book it’s me because it’s so loved! But no it’s just god awful
I tried reading _The Fifth Season_ earlier this year. When I found out it had been translated into my native language, I dropped the book I was reading at the time, went to the library, and borrowed TFS. I rarely do that; I usually just put a book on a list and read it later. I had read too many bad books in a row, and I thought this hugely praised book must be awesome. Also, I _very_ rarely DNF a book. I got one quarter through and gave up. It did not make me care about the story or the characters, not even a little bit. That girl who got sold was the most sympathetic character but nowhere near enough interesting that I would read to find out what happened to her.
I haven’t read Dresden so I have opinion on it lol but could it be that you hate it because you read it everyday while running??? 😂 never listen to a book while suffering like that haha jkjk
I'm sorry but calling LoTR overrated because it isn't modern fantasy i think it's just a mistake. Classics are great because of what they achieved and the context when they were written needs to be understood to avoid falling into recency bias. To give you a clear example is like if you called Chaplin's films bad because they don't have great SFX, they are not thrilling and they don't have the diversity and representation quota in them... Trends come and go but disrespecting the classics only for me it only show short memory and lack critical thought besides one's likes.
I do agree with the premise of your argument, but I think the difference is that nobody is going to sit here and say that Chaplin's films remain today the greatest films of all time even when comparing them to modern standards. But you will constantly hear that of LotR - and it's for that reason I believe the series is overrated. I do think it's a good series, even when read today - but it doesn't hold up on it's own today (in my opinion) compared to when they came out.
I mostly agree with your points, although a couple of examples stand out to me as weird to put in this kind of list (LOTR and Dresden FIles). I see where you are coming from about Dresden, although I might not agree that his "man gaze" is so disruptive on such a high level. However, I have a big problem with your criticism about LOTR. Not about the taste, or the sloggyness or the overabundance of inconsequential history (this is all fair, its about taste and that is subjective), but with your assesment that it is "dated"!!! Now, this is an objectivelly wrong assessment - when we say that something is "dated", it usually is in the context of something that has been published fairly recently (contemporary time), but suffers from over-done, lackluster, old and weathered tropes. LOTR is the foundation of the genre, it was written in the first half of the previous century - there is no logical way to call this "dated" since the tropes that it explores were not dated when it came out, and it may seem dated from today's perspective, solely because it set the precedents that many followed ad nauseam, and retroactivelly create that "dated" feel. So, no - I vehemently disagree with the "dated" statement about LOTR! For me, it continues to be the pinnacle of fantasy and worldbuilding, and all those tropes that seem old are old because of LOTR. I would very much like to see your "Favorite Fantasy Books Series" video to see which ones you consider the best. Please don't tell me that you prefer "Wheel of Time" (the most overrated fantasy series of all time, imo) over LOTR, because that would be unacceptable, and I'm unfollowing your channel if it is so! :)
I think we have different definitions of the word "dated". For me, that term can mean many things, including something that is old-fashioned and out of date. Not necessarily just something that is new but feels old. I kind of feel similarly to Lord of the Rings as I do to Citizen Kane. Both are unquestionably (for me) the most defining and important works in their respective fields, but I don't think they hold up when compared to modern great works.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Tolkien had invented the trope, so he became the grandfather of modern fantasy. So for me LotR is a timeless and classic. It will never be dated. Academic scholars will keep studying it till the end of time. You should read the Silmarillion, the bible of middle earth, so you will understand all those characters mentioned. You will understand also why there is the lord of the rings.
I kept watching this to find a series that I have read. And yet, with each new entry, I found one that I had looked at, read the audible or other reviews on, and rejected or thought, oh I’ll check that out one day but nothing worth paying for right now. The Murderbot Diaries was the only thing on my: will probably start reading this year list. I shall now pay more attention to your videos, since apparently our tastes lineup more than I expected.
I totally understand why you the goblin emperor wasn't for you. Gah I adore that book ,Maya and that world. I read the books under the name Sarah monette. I really think you should avoid anything written by her 💜💜💜
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews book 2 is shorter. She focused less on the naming system . The follow up books are more murder mysteries with the priest as lead
Your take on dresden files is....wild. yeah, harry wants to protect women...okay? Not everybody is flaming leftist who think men and women are the same. And at least he admits the way he is (which makes it far more interesting to read). I also find it funny you didnt get to changes but comment on his character growth....bro...just...wow. i dont think you should comment on that until youve read changes and ghost story. I genuinely think your opinions on Dresden are...a hot take to say the least. But ill defend your right to say it! Hope you finish the rest of the series some day!
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews the character growth is there before 12. Its subtle for sure. But ive always viewed dresden books as just being fun reads and not necessarily caring about stuff like that.
Harry is 100% a 'benevolent misogynist'. He learns though. Not least because as the series progresses, he's consistently put to shame by the women around him kicking his arse.
@@derrisreaditbefore i just dont care. Im unapologettically a fan of men protecting women. And im also a massive fan of women being able to take care of themselves in most areas of life.
My experience with the Dresden Files was similar. I loved the premise and listened to half a dozen audio books. The sexism didn't bother me, but after a while they just became repetitive and I petered out.
20:30 how this got so prized? Very simple, this book is basically the official BLM fantasy book, so every supporter of the movement voted it and enjoyed full media promotion.
This is like saying "worst movies and TV shows about the mafia" : The sopranos. Goodfellas. Casino. The godfather. Lol. I actually have a use for this channel. ..If he dislikes it that means it's great and I'll buy it immediately.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews yeah, busting chops a bit. Actually it reminds me of a fragrance reviewer that I watch ( I collect fragrances) he hates lots of stuff that I love and that other people loved and that are masterpieces. But he also like some really cool stuff too. So I just watch his list of likes instead of the dislikes and it's still cool.
I was watching this thinking, “oh this is one of those posers who thinks NK Jemison is a good writer”.. aaand you completely rehabilitated your list with your choice of #1! And yes, she’s basically single handedly wrecked the Hugos for me. Some of these others are so good though.
Nice one! This was a very entertaining list for me, because compared to my own opinions, this was all over the map! * First of all, I'm so glad someone agree with me that Dresden is overrated. For me the main thing are the religious themes that just make me cringe every time. I have read (listened to) them all, because they are entertaining enough, but after the snoozefest that was the last two installments, I'm done! * I loved Broken earth! Even though I knew the twist going in. The first book is the best in the series though. I doesn't make it to my best of all time list, but it's in the discussion. The first book might have my favorite ending sentence of a book. That's a smaller but more interesting twist that's always obscured by the the "big twist". * BUT your initial comments on Broken earth, that's pretty much my view on Mistborn (both eras). There is obviously something I'm missing. But I don't get the hype at all. Predictable character work, overly explained magic system (I don't care about magic systems, just get on with the plot already). * I like murderbot! I think she is one of the most relatable characters in sci-fi Thanks for the content, keep it up!
You think you know how the story ends because of the title? Here's a hint: emperor is nothing. The Broken Empire is part of an entire universe with characters that simply never die and Jorg is so much more than just an 'emperor'. Jorg is destined to war with God.
Jorg was meant to be dispicable so Mark got that right,yea the titles give away what will happen but the best thing is what he did to get there that boy was diabolical "the boys" diabolical, i agree Wayne is a poor character cant stand him, LOTR is god tier,
It seems that you really enjoy plot twists, but not every book needs one and I don't think that's the point of The Fifth Season. As you said, there are way too many clues all along, starting from the title of the first chapter and so much more that actually what happens at the end shouldn't come as a reveal to anyone, but just as the moment where things round up together. Why not do things more traditionally then? Well, it keeps things more interesting and allows us to understand the world the characters live in from many different points of view at the same time. This world, this society they live in, explains why the characters react like they do and that's the point too, a reflection on abuse and discrimination in a world where these things are accepted for what they are. The characters are not likeable, I agree, we don't want to be them, but that's on purpose. In exchange we get so much food for thought and that's what I appreciate about the book. Just my opinion.
Ive read all three books in Broken Empire. The way of writing is extremely confusing. You would think the choppy chronology would eventually flow in together to come to some sort of point but while his past certainly made him who he is, the chronology would go from him being 10 to 15 to 13 to back to being 10 and then Mark Lawrence does the show dont tell thing to a fault. Like I couldn't understand the builder sun was a ******* ****** until I literally went and looked it up. But I dont regret reading the books at all!
I actually found myself agreeing with a lot of your picks, especially the poppy war and lotr. But the one that made go "Thank you!" Was the mention of Prince of Thorns. The book just goes nowhere, character development is a 0. He's a piece of crap and by the end...is still just a piece of crap. He can't even become a bigger piece of crap because he's already there! It just made the story feel pointless and tbh kinda boring after the initial shock value wears off. Great video! Good on you for sharing an unpopular opinion. You're not alone!
Thanks so much for highlighting the main problems with Dresden as a character where other reviewers just brush it off. I've read the first 3 books and I'm dragging myself through book 4 because everyone recommends this series and promises that the misogyny is absent in the latter installments but after seeing your review and confirming that Dresden's inner monologue about endless sex and 'women are so helpless and always need a strong man' attitude doesn't change I'm so giving up on this series. Sad thing is I really liked the magical world Butcher created but I just can't handle Dresden's POV. It just goes against all my fundamental beliefs as an independent woman. Poppy War started well for me but by the end it just went downhill. Couldn't even complete Prince of Thorns because I hated every character in that story. Already subscribed to your channel. Thanks for being so truthful and not holding back. These criticisms are important just as much as the praise these books get.
Thank you so much for the kind words, they are much appreciated! Yeah it's kind of crazy to me that people try to downplay the Dresden thing. And like you said, for a series that is in single person POV the entire time - for me to not like the main character is a huge deal-breaker.
Yes, Dresden has a blind side where the damsel in distress is involved but really, when he needs help, when he needs backup, who does he call? Murphy. Actions speak louder.
I'm outing myself as an angry 40+yr old feminist. Did I struggle with early Dresden? Yes. Did I trust those who persuaded me to keep going? Grudgingly. Am I now a *massive* fan of Dresden and about to re-read the entire series for the 3rd time? Also yes.
You are absolutely right about N.K. Jemison. I didn't actively hate it, as you did, and managed to drag myself through the trilogy. But it was crap. You are missing nothing whatsoever by not continuing. It most certainly did not win the Hugo on merit. Also, I'm glad to finally find someone else who agrees that Mistborn Era 2 is lackluster. I suspect I like Wayne better than you do, and if I were to make a list like this it wouldn't be in my top 10. But I just don't get why people love it so much. I consider it basically unnecessary. Which is not to say I won't read the new one when it comes out--I just wish he'd spent the time that went into these books doing something else with a different Cosmere world.
Anyone paying attention to what’s going on in society today can figure out why N. K. Jemisin has gotten such acclaim and awards for such lousy and amateurish writing.
I haven't read The Fifth Season, but the cynic in me wonders if it won its awards because it touched on the right political/social agendas and was written by a black woman.
And yes...I am aware that the #4 image is blocking my face the whole time. But I'm sticking with it!
A twist in the timeline.
Dude ! go read The Black Magician Trilogy by Trudi Caravan that was the biggest dissapointment since unsliced bread. Awful !
@@davedogge2280 "The Book of the New Sun", by Gene Wolfe. Bought the whole series. Waste of time and money. This book series
led me to the DNF style of reading. Used to finish books for the HOPE of a good payoff, but DNF'd this thing and have not wasted any time DNF'ing others
that are in the same style of "Nah....".
Based on your inclusion of books I've read and loved on this list, I'm left with no other option but to use this as my reading guide for the foreseeable future.
LOL - happy to be of service!
I'm with you. Anything he didn't like, I liked (of those I've read). So anything on the list he doesn't like, I'll probably adore. lol But I respect his opinions.
@@knottyneedle check out my video on best fantasy series, I wonder if you hate all those! Lol
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Actually, I did and I was about 50/50. I really enjoyed your take and subscribed just so I can 'agree to disagree' with you!
I had the same reaction to Barry Normans film reviews when I was growing up. We had completely opposite tastes. So I watch what he hated.
A friend of mine once shared the movie "Casablanca" with a friend who'd never seen the film. When Bogart talks about the start of a beautiful friendship, and the screen faded to black, she told my friend, "It was OK, but everything in it was just a cliche." LotR is similar to that, and that quality is what makes it nearly impossible to be overrated. Tolkien changed literary worldbuilding. Most every fantasy series, that has come after has either been an iteration of this story, or it is a direct reaction to this story. I'd argue that Lord of the Rings is *outside* of the realm of comparison so far as rating story goes. Now, it may not be to everyone's tastes. Hell, Michael Moorcock is very critical of its pacing and stakes. It's not the action-adventure. But it is *DEEP*. Every time I've read through Lord of the Rings (and I've been doing so for the majority of my life), there's something new I discover. A relationship, an evolution, another piece of backstory. LotR rewards multiple readings, from multiple perspectives. So, you mentioned you were gonna get dragged on something in this list. There's my drag.
Yeah that all makes sense and I can appreciate that. I very much believe that Lord of the Rings is by far the most important work of fantasy of all time and it's not even close.
But I think many people go too far in their praise of it and take it to hyperbolic levels. I can't tell you how many people have told me that the book still holds up today better than any other fantasy work, and I just can't agree with that. I firmly believe that if it came out today, it wouldn't be a successful book outside of a niche audience - and nor should it since it came out 70ish years ago.
I appreciate your honesty and I'm glad you took this shot/gamble. Great video. I disagree with a number of your picks, but not with your reasons for not liking them. The ones that stand out are Lord of the Rings and Dresden. I absolutely love them both, but they worked so well for me. Not everyone will have my experience. Seriously, great video and hope you don't lose anyone over this. These types of opinion videos should be celebrated.
Thanks for the comment Bryce! Yeah I'm pretty confident that I probably love some books that the other people watching this love. It's just the nature of books!
Yes, with you there.
Lotr is revolutionary. It's a tale about a journey where a simple person sets out to destroy a power and not gain it for himself.
Tolkien did not start the fantasy genre, but he refined it he brought a bit of everything from Norse mythology, epic poems such Beowulf other old English literature and created this epic world . Modern fantasy would not be what it is today without Tolkien.
Granted, I see where you are coming from if it was released today it would not be as highly rated as let's say malazan series. But in 60 years malazan might be regarded differently as well.
It’s hard to imagine what the landscape of fantasy would look like without LotR though, so hard to say what it’d be like if it released today.
I also have to say that as far as Tolkien, I think for a lot of people (at least it was for me) the first 'fantasy' series I ever read. It got me started on this journey. So I think that if just for that it will always hold a very special place in my heart, and my bookshelf.
Yeah my problem was that I didn't read it for the first time until very recently so I never got that "special place in the heart" that so many others got.
that's how harry potter was for me
I appreciate your honest reviews. And to answer your Tolkien question, yes they’re my favorite fantasy series. Not because they are the best, but because they were the first truly epic fantasy series I read, and started me down 35 years of fantasy literature. Have I read better? Yes. But none have the same impact as your first love :)
Yeah I think that is largely my problem with these books, as they were not my introduction to fantasy. I only recently read these books after I had already read hundreds of other fantasy works.
About the twist in Broken Earth. I firmly think we are meant to figure it out before the end. I think that N. K. Jemisin was indeed clever in letting us find out at each step of the way. I think this is intended, because finding out in no way lessens the impact of the last pages of the first book, wherehas a Shyamalan style ending would be completely ruined.
Yeah that's a good point. It felt to me at the time that she was trying to be too smart in hiding it (and not well), and given that a lot of people didn't figure it out made me feel like it was intentional.
I’m currently in the third book of the Broken Earth trilogy and these are the most depressing books I have ever read. I read somewhere that people like it for it’s uniqueness, using geology and psychology, but for me it’s just depressing.
Yeah, no redeeming qualities for me!
It’s awful
I'm 100% with you on Jemisin. I liked some of her world-building, but generally speaking, she is a terrible writer. I really wanted to like her, but was thoroughly disappointed. Her foray into magical realism in The City We Became might actually qualify as the most pretentiously written book I have ever attempted to read.
I also agree with you on Sullivan and Lawerence. Even though I strongly disagree with you about LOTR . . I understand why you included it and liked the format of this video 🙂 Keep up the good work sir! Always good to hear honest fantasy reviews
Thanks so much for the kind words!
Thanks for keeping it real and not being afraid of being honest, as allways really great video keep it up!
Thank you!
Personally I love Mistborn era 2. I loved how they expanded the world from the first era, I actually prefer the magic system in this one compare to era 1, yes the stories are short but they’re as long as I think they need them to be, and ultimately, it’s just a lot of fun. I wouldn’t go as far as to say that I prefer it to era 1, but saying it’s bad is a hard disagree with me.
Yeah I'm definitely in the minority opinion that Era 2 is not good. I don't "hate" it, but I certainly don't like it.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews but you liked era 1? i thought both eras are overrated, but era 2 came out ahead for me
@@Johndoe-gd4tb Yes I absolutely loved Era 1!
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews your opinion may change if you read the final good in Era 2 that just came out. It was well done and was very emotional for me.
@@rosssims7224 This is awkward...but here is my review for it.
ua-cam.com/video/dJLeAE2X-Oo/v-deo.html
Agree with everything EXCEPT Lord Of The Rings, IMO LOTR is both the foundation and pinnacle of fantasy. Calling LOTR outdated it’s like saying that the Monalisa is outdated 💁🏻
To be honest with you...I do find the Monalisa outdated 😂
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews it is fine. Shakespeare is also boring. and everybody can draw black square
As you say, LOTR is a historically significant piece of fantasy. It can be compared to Beethoven, who redefined the symphony. Without Tolkien, fantasy might look more like James Branch Cabell, who i can't stand.
You must admit that Tolkien can write.
@@MegaFortinbras to admit that someone like Tolkien can write one should first learn how to read it's books, at least understand significance of that writing
i didnt read the books so im saying this just with movie knowledge: calling LOTR pinnacle of fantasy is ridiclous. LOTR doesnt even "fantasy". yes there are other races but there are not! elves are same as humans, dwarfs are smaller humans, main characters are human, orcs are stronger humans. basically except tree peoples and a few magic of gandalf there is no magic in this movies. yes they are good adventure movies but not fantasy. And personally boring.
One does not simply put LOTR in an overrated book list, You are quite brave! I actually love those books. The thing is, you kinda have to read The Hobbit, Lord of The Rings and The Silmarillion to sort of understand what's going on with all the extra names and characters. And there is even more books to cover. It's a big world to understand. You either love it and keep reading through the rest of the books, or you're just done with it as soon as it finishes.
Yeah I think you're right. I need to give Silmarillion a chance.
Well the part about Dresden and woman seems to be the biggest struggle of many people with the series and honestly it didn’t bother me at all but I can understand that if you don’t like that part of the books it would be quite hard to continue the series 😂
Personally I love it.
Yeah there's a reason the series is very beloved. Most people who try it love it!
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Not that happy with the latest books in the series though. Too high-powered, and he really does not write certain relations there well.. I know that Jim Butcher himself has said that the first 2 books, are so-so, and skippable, as he wasn't that good of a writer back then.
(stunned) You include both the greatest fantasy series of all time, without which this video wouldn't even exist AND arguably the best modern fantasy series (or at least of this century) and call it a trash heap?
I guess I want be looking to you for recommendations! :)
I really do like Lord of the Rings, don't get me wrong. I just can't agree with people who say that if it came out today it would be just as popular - something I seriously disagree with. For that reason I find it overrated.
Yeah I just can't agree with Fifth Season, I really couldn't find anything redeeming about it, but everyone has different opinions about books.
Check out my video with the top 10 best fantasy series, I bet there is a lot there we agree with!
I love LOTR but if I'm being 100% honest, I _always_ struggle on Two Towers part 2. I love the long, detailed journeys through Middle Earth where Tolkien, with his beautiful prose, describes this rustic ancient land. It really gives you the sense that magic still lingers in every corner. The world _is_ a character, one that keeps me engaged...then the latter end of Two Towers is spent in this bleak wasteland, and I have to admit that it does lose a lot of its magic for me at that point
Gonna have to disagree with it being overrated, but I absolutely see your point.
Thank you, much appreciated! And yeah that tone shift is a bit jarring.
Yep, I loved the audiobooks and decided to read through the trilogy a second time after reading the Silmarilion. Fellowship and Towers can be a slog but, in a way, the slog makes Return of the King all the more triumphant.
Silmarilion is just words and a hundred indistinguishable names. I read a criticism somewhere that East Asian names are difficult to distinguish for non-native readers and I (eastern european) feel the same way about Tolkien's Feanors, Feagons, Fingons, Finarfins, Finrods, Fingolfins, Finwes, Frelafs... Hurin, Turin, Turgon, Hador...
Interesting, I struggled with Book 1 of Fellowship. I commonly tell people that it took me two months to read Fellowship and two weeks to read Two Towers and Return of the King, combined.
I found your channel when youtube recommended me your review about the Fifth Season. I was reading it at the time and watched your review, said aloud THANK YOU and dnf’d the book about 80 % in. This book tries so hard to be something unique but being SO boring. The story is all over the place and tries too hard in every aspect of storytelling. And you can see the plot twists coming. How could you not when the writingstyle gives them away? Hugo awards? This was one of those books that makes you think that did you really read the same book that everybody else did? Keep up the great work, you have an amazing channel!
Thanks so much! There are DOZENS of us who disliked Fifth Season!
Tolkien's Lord of The Rings is pretty much like synonymous with the word Fantasy. Even if someone hasn't read the series but is familiar with the genre the first thing you'll hear in a discussion about fantasy is a Lord of the Rings take.
Agreed, and I do think it's the most important work of fantasy of all time. But I find people who say that it remains the best today given todays standards to be a bit of hyperbole.
A.H. Auden on LOTR: “If someone dislikes it, I shall never trust their literary judgement about anything again.”
I liked it! I just don't rank it as highly as those who say it's the greatest work that has ever been produced.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews you gave all the books 4/5 stars, and you wouldn’t put it in your top20…. That kind of weird
@@sit-insforsithis1568 I've read a LOT of series.
@Sit-ins For sithis lol I did the same. The stars for me were an acknowledgement of the quality of the writing and worlbuilding, but personally I didn't enjoy them at all.
A very fair assessment of the books I've read - The Goblin Emperor, The Poppy War (Book 1 only) and The Books of Babel but I respectfully disagree about LOTR.
I reread it earlier this year and it holds up as one of the all-time greats imo. YMMV of course.
Thanks for the input!
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Was gonna say: The Lord of the Rings is just full of important notions and touching moments. A lot of people want more action -- but that wasn't the point.
Again, the cool thing about opinions, we can all have them 🙂Right?
Hmm, I really enjoyed The Broken Empire, and I loved The Red Queen's War. I also really enjoyed the short story collection, Road Brothers, that contains stories about characters from these two trilogies. The main trilogies reflect two sides of a coin, exploring different types of main characters. I think it was really well done.
But, I get that it isn't for everyone.
Ooh... Mistborn Era 2.... That is a hot take. I loved it. (then again, I love westerns). Did you get the play on words though? About Wax and Wayne?
.... LOTR?
L O T R?
Ok, now I want to go and flip tables... Sorry, you lost me at this point.
Dresden Files.... What... -_- yip, you have really lost me on this one man...
lol, yeah I think I've made quite a few people flip quite a few tables!
Finally someone on booktube shares my thoughts on LotR. I appreciate what it did for the genre, but I don't see the appeal beyond historical significance and a classic fantasy tale. Modern fantasy clearly takes influence from LotR, but modern fantasy is also written much better in my opinion.
There are DOZENS OF US!
I’m surprised that you don’t see any twists in LoTR. Not surprising when Gandalf is killed? Or Boromir being killed? Also disagree that it’s writing being “dated” is a weakness. Considering the style Tolkien uses, he does it quite well. I don’t think they are perfect books, and they may be ‘overrated,’ but mostly in the way that Sanderson is overrated these days. It’s hard to live up to ratings that high. (Fortunately, I read Mistborn 1 before the hype had kicked in. Otherwise, I might have been disappointed in him. Completely agree on Wax and Wayne, however.)
On Dresden, I think you should at least acknowledge that Harry’s sexism comes across as a character flaw, and one that even he acknowledges. If that makes it disturbing for a reader, that’s fine. As for character growth, I think you are wrong about that. He definitely changes during the series and in ways I find interesting, since he simultaneously becomes both darker and more noble. That said, if the series hasn’t hooked someone by Dead Beat, then it’s definitely not for them. For the rest of us, Polka will never die.
lol on the Polka never die comment!
Dead Beat is absolutely when the hook took hold of me - between Polka and Sue, that was me. Sold.
I 100% agree with the fifth season. I didn’t understand why it was so highly rated. I actually got like a yucky feeling reading that book. It’s hard to explain. I still have the trilogy because I had asked for it for Xmas. But not sure if I’ll ever care to read the other two books. It just didn’t do it for me. Love your honesty!!
Thanks so much! Glad I'm not the only one!
I think I made it 20 or 25 pages in and just gave up. I knew the rest of the book was going to be just as bad as the start and I cut my losses early.
This is the book/author that "smart" fantasy readers like to throw out there when they want to impress other people. It's crap, everyone knows it's crap, but because you get a nod of approval when you gush about how great it is, fantasy readers pretend to like it. As for the awards....at this point, winning a Hugo Award is a big red flag for me when it comes to reading recommendations. Which is kind of sad, I still re-read "Hyperion" every other year or so and it won the Hugo 30 years ago. But now? Hard pass on Hugo Award winners.
I was pleased the image for #4 was in the middle of the screen because after what you said about the Lord of the Rings I didn't want to see your face. This was a fun video though, thank you.
Lol this legitimately almost made me spit out my coffee.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews I hope your coffee wasn't dated or boring with too much history.
@@quirkyjoeAnimated To be honest with you, it kind of was. Boring costco coffee without any cream or sugar!
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Oh dear. I would hate a lack of twists in my coffee.
Totally disagree with LOTR and Dresden...but strangely, I still really enjoyed your video. It was interesting to hear a different perspective.
Thanks so much - I appreciate your kind words!
Consider the publishers of the field, and how they suffer more than you, Matt :-) You could have turned it up to 11 and included Patrick Rothfuss, with regard to whom, I bailed out after less than two pages, yet has sold millions of copies :-)
Yeah, I actually enjoyed his series but partly because it was one of the first fantasy books I ever read and I didn't have much to compare it to. If I read it today I probably would agree with you.
Loved the video, disagree with several entries of course but I love genuine opinions
Yeah Murderbot is insanely priced. I recommend getting it at the library.
I listened to them all on audio book and they are all full price. Loved the books but really resented paying for them
You are completely wrong about LoTR. It is quite simply the finest example of epic high fantasy out there, with the exception of possibly MboTF. It's contribution to modern fantasy alone assures it's place in the pantheon of greats. Entire fantasy prose constructed for the book by a man who was a genius. As for the Dresden Files you are wrong again, it's the premier example of paranormal fantasy, with a protagonist that grows wonderfully alongside the series. I will say books 1 through to four are maybe not the best, but still definitely the best of the paranormal fantasy out there. So much so everything else in the genre seems like it's desperately trying to be the Dresden Files
I agree that it deserves a place in the pantheon of greats, but I just don't think it holds up today as compared to other works that have been released in the past couple decades.
When it comes to LOtR nobody argues with it's influence on the genre and it's great worldbuilding, but all other aspects of the story are mediocre at best, especially by modern standards
For me it's probably Stormlight. I like Stormlight, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it's as good as it's reputation. I don't really think Brandon Sandersons prose is that great. Shallan's story feels like a YA story mixed with the much more sophisticated stories of the other two protagonists. Still like a of of it, but having read Malazan, ASOIAF, bit of The Wheel of Time and even Narnia, those are all way better written. I can feel from Brandon's writing that he writes his books as quick as he does.
I didn't like Mark Lawrence's Red Sister book. I'm surprised to hear how popular he is. Also, you have to think of Wax and Wayne as a Victorian Holmes and Watson story instead of seeing it as a Western. It's not Epic Fantasy, it's a detective short novel set in a Fantasy World. I didn't like it at first, but when I saw it for what it is I sort of 'got it'.
Yeah I could see that. It really felt like Wax was the classic western cowboy (but set in a fantasy world). But once he gets to the city I could see it being more of the Watson/Holmes thing.
I think maybe Brandon Sanderson's sense of humor may just not be for everyone, because I think I've laughed out loud to every Mistborn book that's out so far. The way he has the essence of his characters down to a T can make their interactions so funny sometimes because one of them will say something that's just SO them!
Yeah humor is entirely subjective. What works for one person may not work for the other!
yeah I've found them funny at times too XD
Agreed! I laughed outloud tons!
I think for me Tolkien is the best fantasy writer because I've never come across another fantasy series which is so rich, and so re-readable. I discover something new every time I come back to it - some subtle point regarding the lore or history, or some connection I missed the last time around, or a piece of prose that just grabs my attention. There just isn't another author in the genre who combines the same level of pure writing skill with such immense worldbuilding. Until someone else spends an entire lifetime building a world, and unless that person also happens to be as skilled a writer as Tolkien, I just don't see anyone topping him.
Pratchett comes a close second to Tolkien for similar reasons - I'm rewarded every time I re-read them. As I get older, the Discworld books give more and more back, and that is such a special thing.
I find that many of the super popular modern writers like Sanderson, whilst good, just don't make my top 10 because they don't reward re-reads. They write exciting stories, they have interesting characters, some even have good prose, but if you've experienced almost everything there is to experience after one or two readings, then for me it just isn't a capital G 'Great' book. It might be an excellent book, but not great.
Thanks for sharing, this makes sense with my experience too
I think Stormlight Archive really rewards rereads.
You are dead wrong about LOTR. And if you admit yourself that fantasy as we know it wouldn't exist without it, you have answered yourself the reason why it's so revered. And if it's dated, it's because you are decontextualising and forgetting the fact that Tolkien started writing it almost a century ago.
You are right about Dresden but wrong about the reasons. Harry is not sexist but he is a rubbish detective and the whole noir air of the books falls flat.
Yeah I get that's its revered and I respect it for what it is - but I think that if it came out today it wouldn't become popular.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews you are right and that is the very reason you are wrong. As I said, you are decontextualising. You cannot say that if Chaplin made his movies today they wouldn't be as successful as they were because you'd be missing the point altogether.
@@JosesAmazingWorldsI mean you aren't wrong if people were claiming that's why the books are great, but I consistently hear from people that think the books still hold up today using modern standards, compared to modern fantasy books - a statement I wholeheartedly disagree with.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews interesting, compared to what modern fantasy series?
@@JosesAmazingWorlds some examples: Malazan, First Law, Realm of the Elderlings, Stormlight Archive, All John Gwynne books, the first 3 A Song of Ice and Fire books
I don't think originality is that big of an issue. Its like saying historical fiction sucks because it's based on things that actually happened.
Yeah I hear that, but the originality was a problem for me because I don't think the book is nearly as good as the historical fiction of this real life event.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews that's fair.
While I love the Books Of Babel, (personal top 10 favourite series); I love this video. Finally someone with the guts to take these holy cows and give them a dressing down.
I appreciate the honesty and for the most part I agree with your list. Great video.
Thank you so much! You are too kind.
Hey Matt, you broke my heart with some of these (Fifth season) and others I whole heartedly agree(Poppy War). I think the reason you didn't like the fifth season because you didn't get to the end but I know I won't be able to convince you.
That said you sure started some discussions!! The thing I wanted to add was you should consider reading some novellas and see how you feel about things.
Yeah I was already done with Fifth Season by that point (~80%) that nothing would have saved it for me.
I have read some novellas, but I'm almost always not very interested in them as I really like epic fantasy - so in general the longer the book the more likely I am to like it.
My 70-year old mother absolutely loves the Dresden Files. I've only read 5 of them, but she's read the whole series. 🤷♂️
lol that's awesome!
This is going to seem like a bunch of complaints - and I'm sorry. I genuinely liked the video!!
I like the premise of this video, but really it should be called 'book series' I didn't finish' or 'book series' that didn't do what I wanted'. That there are things about these books you don't like is one thing, to say they're over-rated because of that opinion is another. Particularly if you're going by Goodreads reviews - which *other readers* give - not reviewers, not literature professors, not book critics.
Many of the series you talk about, you chose not to finish - which is an unrecognized 'reader ultimate super-power'. So while figuring out a plot twist, or disliking a direction a storyline is headed is an excellent reason to stop - it's not a reason to say that any of the books are "bad".
I have borderline third degree burns from the hot-takes in this video, and the further into the countdown we went, the more worried I became for my own favourite series', thankfully, they weren't mentioned.
I was gob-smacked that you would call *Tolkien* over-rated though, when the specific, extended Middle-Earth universe books you discuss, are usually only consumed by a small sub-set of fantasy readers anyway, and the 'main' body of his work The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings, are consistently on lists of best books *in general* all over the world.
Finally, on Dresden, I don't blame you for giving up, if you don't like Harry, there's no reason to continue. For me though (and I'm an angry 40+yr old feminist), yes, I struggled with early Dresden. I grudgingly trusted people who were intent that I continue though, and persevered. I can happily say Dresden is now one of my favourite series' and I'm about to start my third re-read of the entire story.
Keep doing what you're doing - criticism helps keep quality high.
Yeah I totally hear you, but I want to clarify a few things.
I'm not just going off goodreads reviews, I'm basing it off what I have heard from friends, social media, reddit, youtube, etc. Most of the books on this list are very highly regarded across all platforms.
Regarding Lord of the Rings, for the reason that it's almost universally regarded as the best fantasy book of all time is why it's on this list. While I really enjoy it, I do not think it's as good as the vast majority of people think it is. It's definitely my most "liked" book on this top 10.
I'm right there with you on Broken Earth. I've tried a few times because of how well received the series is but I just can't get through book 1. The writing style is just not for me. I don't feel any connection to the characters at all either which is a pretty big factor in my enjoyment of a story.
Yup, 100% agreed!
I really liked it! Don't agree with some of the picks, but congratulations for the courage and honesty. I think that we need to be sincere abou our opinions not just compliment something because everybody does and I hope to see more stuff like this in your channel. You won a subscriber not lose one.
Thanks so much - I appreciate your kind words about me trying to be honest with my feelings!
I disagreed with most of the books on this list. But I'm removing my dislike because I remembered that not agreeing with me isn't an attack on me. The ones I disagreed with were the Ryira, Mistborn, LOTR, and Dresden files. If they're not to your taste that's your own deal.
Thanks a bunch! Yeah books are so subjective that there are always going to be some huge differences in opinions on lists like this.
I don't think it's too harsh to say Lord of the Rings is overrated. This reminds me of a stupid argument with a friend years ago. He tried to say the inventor of basketball was more talented at basketball than Michael Jordan.
LOL that's a hilarious basketball argument. And yeah while the books are good, the movies are my mind blowing.
This was an interesting video, to say the least! I dont agree with you on 90% of the video, but you keep them coming. I am shit bored of top 10 fantasy book series lists that all look same or similar. Loved your video! :)
Thanks so much!
I haven't read Prince of Thorns, but multiple plot lines is what makes a book more interesting. I can't say a whole about it since I've yet to read it, but that is a horrible take. Following one POV is boring.
The problem for me is it's all the same person, just at different times of his life.
Spoilers -- I really enjoyed the Tower of Babel series but also was hoping for a few levels per book as well. I really don’t understand the love for fifth season either. The world building and setting is cool but the characters are really wooden and unbelievable. The twist was really obvious from early on with some big clues so I’m not sure if it was an intentional twist or not but regardless the last arc on the island really dragged the already slow pace and became a more soap opera jealous of sleeping with random tribes people ect I just couldn’t believe how bad it was.
Yeah, you worded this very well. Somehow the book continued to get worse as it went along.
Christ this is basically a "let me pick some of the most popular books and call them overrated, that'll generate clicks" video. The fact you put LotR, Murderbot, Brandon Sanderson, Jim Butcher and N K Jeminsin speaks volumes, that series by Jeminsin is the only trilogy to ever see each volume win the Hugo so that's the most laughably transparent evidence of what you're doing.
No they are just books that I didn't rate very high when reviewing them. I review a ton of books, and my list of favorite series includes a bunch of books that are also wildly popular (like Sanderson, Erikson, Abercrombie, Hobb, etc.)
All of these books have in depth reviews from me on either Goodreads or UA-cam, or both.
My worst and most disappointing was Malazan. I read the first book and about 80% of Deadhouse Gates and just had to quit when I realized I didn't care about anything going on or any of the characters. None of them seemed well fleshed out and it's hard to keep reading when the characters seemed so flat.
Yeah good to stop if you are feeling that way at that point.
I stopped reading after the fourth book, too many characters and didn't care about 90% of them
Fair point. I loved the series on my first read, but DNFed on my second because I got drowned.
I definitely disagree with some of your picks here (LotR is only more fantastic every time I read it and I actually enjoyed the Fifth Season!) but I can’t fault an honest sharing of your opinion!! The most overrated series for me at the moment has got to, sadly, be the stormlight archive. I enjoyed the Mistborn trilogy and I wanted to love it but Stormlight left me pretty lukewarm, undoubtedly good moments but the books were very overlong and bloated to me, and I felt like the characters would pop more if the page count were reduced and the prose characterized them more impactfully (think the way Abercrombie paints characters so vividly and quickly)-as they are they feel like they go in circles too much, when less would be far more. Maybe I’ll give them another try someday and my opinion will change though, with so many other books to read I’m not sure when that’ll be however 🤔
Okay, seriously...
While you're busy criticizing a book that's closing in on 100 years old and the single most beloved fantasy series Ever... Try to quit rolling your eyes like a 13-year-old girl.
Also, just to say: Saying that LotR is "overrated" is just stupid. You may as well start off by saying you think "Macbeth" or "Hamlet" are overrated.
Thanks for the comment, I wasn't aware of the eye rolling but I'll try to chill out on that.
To be honest, if people claimed that Macbeth or Hamlet are as good as modern great plays using today's standards, I would absolutely say they are overrated. But I never hear that.
I think LotR is the most important fantasy book of all time by a long shot, just as I think Citizen Kane is the most important movie. But they are not as good as modern works and if they came out today I don't think they would be celebrated even a fraction of the amount they were when they were released.
For some reason, the large majority of people I talk to about fantasy books claims that LotR, if it came out today, would still be one of the best fantasy books. I disagree, which is why I believe it is overrated.
I don't have a lot in common with my 70 year old dad, but he likes fantasy and Mistborn a lot. He loves era 2 bc of the western feel, but I have the same opinion as Matt and kind of find them hard to get into. If my old man likes it though, I'll keep getting them for him and keep reading them too.
You're a good son!
When everyone on the planet (except, apparently, you?) universally agrees that a writer and series is the best ever - Lord of the Rings - then clearly it isn't "over rated". You lost any shred of credibility w/ me at that point!
Check out the comments here, there are a ton of people who agree with me.
I like the series and think it's the most important fantasy work of all time. But it doesn't hold up for me by today's standards compared to many other fantasy works.
Damnnn. Obviously you can criticize any book (and should) but calling the Broken Earth trilogy a “trash heap” is objectively wrong. Usually I wouldn’t mind the hyperbole but…I mean, just purely on a technical level you cannot call it a trash heap, regardless of whether or not you enjoyed its story or characters
Honestly I feel that on a technical level it is also extremely bad (in my opinion). Check out my video review for it if you want more detail.
Imagine saying lotr is overrated. You got bad taste my guy
lol, I do really like the books - I just think they aren't as good when compared to modern day works of fantasy.
I loved Legends of the First Empire, but I can tell why some people may not like it. In fact, when I read the first volume I was confused because I had expected it to be quite 'realistic', but the dialogues and the humour sounded contemporary, the series of inventions was gimmicky... And then, reading the following volumes, I realised the author had never had the intention of making the story 'realistic', but to explore certain themes - and the characters were great! I'm a character-driven reader and I had to go back to my initial assessment of the first volume and change my rating.
Read the Fifth Season trilogy,...and sold it right afterwards. Completely agree. Don't get how it got so many awards
Yeah I'll never get these awards. It seems the books I love never get them and books I end up hating do.
Maybe it's just me!
We all know the reason why such a mediocre book is so feted, it's the elephant in the room.
@@catinthehat906 actually very curious on what "the elephant in the room" is to you?
“Curiouser and curiouser!” Cried Alice!
@@catinthehat906 so you're not going to? Are you scared of stating your opinions?
Lack of twists in LOTR? I know that it's hard to recognize in retrospect, or perhaps you saw the movies first, but Boromir's death? Frodo being stung by Shelob? Frodo choosing not to throw the ring in? Gandalf's return? Eowyn slaying the witch king? I mean I can go on...
I don't find those to be twists, they are plot developments and surprises.
A twist is when the story materially changes and things you previously knew to be true are no longer.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Oh you look at it that way... well in that case I'm in agreement. There aren't necessarily any twists as such. I've always thought of twists as major events that are unforseen and shake the very structure established to be the story forcing you to reconsider your expectations. But per your definition, I certainly agree.
Bruh, lord of the rings 💀
LOL
when j.r.r tolkien is in this you know you can not take opinion seriously i dont even want to imagine what youre favorite books look like
See for yourself! ua-cam.com/video/B1_8OwvVEZA/v-deo.html
For some reason, I was expecting to see Malazan Book of the Fallen on here. Its an ok-ish series. It did get me involved/excited in some parts and the scope of the world is grand, but my overall feeling was meh. The reviews for it make it seem like it is the best thing ever - and it was not for me.
I would rather go through the entire Cosmere or the wheel of time again, than reread one of the Malazan series.
Yeah Malazan absolutely isn't for everyone. I find people either LOVE it, or are "meh" about it. I don't think I've ever heard someone say they just like it.
I finally got to the end of the first book and holy crap, was that some tough sledding. The last quarter of the book was definitely better than the first three-quarters, so it finished strong-ish. Just started the second book and it seems like a better story already, so hopefully that is a good sign. And thank god for internet maps, because good detailed maps for epic fantasy are almost mandatory (one thing that Tolkien did very well in LOTR). Here's crossing my fingers for the rest of the series....
It is mind blowing to me that you talk about how overrated lord of the rings is but game of thrones didn't make this list.
To be honest, I really love the first three books - and thought the 4th and 5th were good but with some major problems.
It could have been on this list a handful of years ago, but with how much of a blunder the show was I think the books have taken a serious hit in how much they are rated by the average fantasy fan.
Awesome list! I agree with most of your views here except for Lord of the Rings and Dresden Files.
I'll take it!
I've literally never heard anyone ever say Mistborn era 2 is better than era 1. This is the first time I have ever heard this opinion. I don't think it's controversial at all to say it's worse.
Man I hear it all the time!
I feel you so much on The Fifth Season! Never heard anyone talk about the same issues I had with it so clearly; thank you!
You are most welcome!
I wonder if the level of a books enjoyment changes depending on whether the book/series is read or listened to. I'm 100% audio and haven't read a printed book in years. I liked Wayne in Mistborn but that could be because the narrator uses the same voice and accent for Wayne as he does for Lopen in Stormlight. The Lopen is one of my all-time favorite characters so I went into Mistborn with a built in bias towards liking Wayne. I have no idea if I would like Wayne's character as much in print.
Yeah I've noticed that I tend to give lower scores to audiobooks, but I'm not sure if that means I like them less, or just because of the books that I have decided to read via audiobook are just not as good.
Hello Matt! I can not thank you enough for your honest opinion, especially about The Dresden Files. Like you, I pushed myself to read these books, also in audiobooks, during my brisk walking in the mornings. I thought I was the only one who thought he had nothing on his head but sex. I stopped at number 3. Now I enjoy my morning exercise again!
Lol that's hilarious.
Dresden Files always call me. Sound like a anime type of story or a teenage tv series. But always hear mixes reviews that pull me back
3 of my favorite series are on this list. That's okay. People have different tastes.
Thanks!
I have to agree with you on all of these (that I've read anyway). Our similar tastes in books is why I follow you. I did like Dresden Files when I was younger, but going back to it, it's nothing special.
I'm guessing a lot of these big hype books come from teens who are easily pleased.
I understand why you would think Tolkein is overrated. But I also think you're looking at it the wrong way. The prose even at the time was written in an antiquated style. But the hero's journey is timeless, and still widely used today. The world building is unparalleled even by today's standards. The races he included while feeling overdone to a modern reader, were definitely not when they were written. His work is the template from which all modern fantasy was created. It's like saying the Model T Ford was overrated. Are there better cars made today? Sure. But to compare them with a Model T is unfair.
Basically, Tolkein stands in a category by himself. I think it might be more constructive to point out the flaws and how modern writers addressed them. The character building, for example, was weak. Sam has depth. But most of the cast shows little in the way of growth. Or the way he focuses on landscapes and atmosphere to a point it can pull you out of the story. But even Tolkien's shortcomings helped to build the genre. We build better characters now. Most descriptions are a bit tamer, the writers aware of the importance of pacing.
Anyway, that's all I have for today.
Yeah you make a good point, and I agree that the story is timeless. I just think that if you take out the history of the book and read the book for what it is today, it doesn't hold up compared to the modern day greats.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews That's just it, though. It shouldn't suffer that comparison. Take Asimov's work in sci-fi. Brilliant for the time. But the prose was lacking as was the character building. You can't compare it to The Expanse in any meaningful way. But to understand the journey sci-fi has taken, it's important to read for what it is. Not for what it isn't. Even Dune. The prose was getting better in sci-fi, but great Godilla's Gonads, the head jumping drove me nuts. But it was an important work that helped modern sci-fi flourish and develop.
@@therenegadebard3971 In my opinion you are correct if my list was "Most defining work" or even "Best overall" - but I'm talking about in terms of overrated/underrated. Given that I very regularly see people claim that Lord of the Rings as it stands today is better than all other fantasy books, I find that inaccurate personally.
Don't get me wrong. Your opinion is completely valid and I get where you're coming from. There are several beloved and wildly popular series I find impossible to get through. I can't mention them by name because there is a 100% chance I'll run into the authors and I can't have that sort of thing out there for one of their fans to find. It can cause an after-convention drinking session at the hotel bar to go sideways in a hurry. But still, every time I hear how wonderful the books are, I want to scream "No, it's not! It's complete shit. Shit, I say. Shiiiiiiit."
With the amount of books you read, and so quickly, do you stuggle to read continuations in a series without forgetting the previous read book? Especially if it was 1+ year ago you read the previous book
No, but it's because I take notes while I read for books that don't have the next one out yet. Just the main things so that I don't forget when the next book comes out.
If I'm reading a series that already has the next book out, I usually read the next one within a month or two.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews I try to wait for a series to finish before i start, but that is just impossible sometimes and you miss out on the hype
@@prymespyder Yeah I really like the hype machine for books and to discuss it with people who are reading it for the first time.
I also don't mind reading a series that may never finish. Obviously I love it when they finish, but I don't regret my time with A Song of Ice and Fire, Kingkiller Chronicle, and Gentleman Bastards.
Omg I agree with you about the Fifth Season! I tried so many times with this book and I just hated it so much, but I kept feeling like it’s not the book it’s me because it’s so loved! But no it’s just god awful
Yeah I don't get what people love about this book!
I tried reading _The Fifth Season_ earlier this year. When I found out it had been translated into my native language, I dropped the book I was reading at the time, went to the library, and borrowed TFS. I rarely do that; I usually just put a book on a list and read it later. I had read too many bad books in a row, and I thought this hugely praised book must be awesome.
Also, I _very_ rarely DNF a book. I got one quarter through and gave up. It did not make me care about the story or the characters, not even a little bit. That girl who got sold was the most sympathetic character but nowhere near enough interesting that I would read to find out what happened to her.
Yeah, I feel the exact same as you.
I haven’t read Dresden so I have opinion on it lol but could it be that you hate it because you read it everyday while running??? 😂 never listen to a book while suffering like that haha jkjk
lol you may be onto something!
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews haha just kidding. I've heard others express very similar things about dresden
I'm sorry but calling LoTR overrated because it isn't modern fantasy i think it's just a mistake.
Classics are great because of what they achieved and the context when they were written needs to be understood to avoid falling into recency bias. To give you a clear example is like if you called Chaplin's films bad because they don't have great SFX, they are not thrilling and they don't have the diversity and representation quota in them...
Trends come and go but disrespecting the classics only for me it only show short memory and lack critical thought besides one's likes.
I do agree with the premise of your argument, but I think the difference is that nobody is going to sit here and say that Chaplin's films remain today the greatest films of all time even when comparing them to modern standards.
But you will constantly hear that of LotR - and it's for that reason I believe the series is overrated. I do think it's a good series, even when read today - but it doesn't hold up on it's own today (in my opinion) compared to when they came out.
I mostly agree with your points, although a couple of examples stand out to me as weird to put in this kind of list (LOTR and Dresden FIles). I see where you are coming from about Dresden, although I might not agree that his "man gaze" is so disruptive on such a high level. However, I have a big problem with your criticism about LOTR. Not about the taste, or the sloggyness or the overabundance of inconsequential history (this is all fair, its about taste and that is subjective), but with your assesment that it is "dated"!!! Now, this is an objectivelly wrong assessment - when we say that something is "dated", it usually is in the context of something that has been published fairly recently (contemporary time), but suffers from over-done, lackluster, old and weathered tropes. LOTR is the foundation of the genre, it was written in the first half of the previous century - there is no logical way to call this "dated" since the tropes that it explores were not dated when it came out, and it may seem dated from today's perspective, solely because it set the precedents that many followed ad nauseam, and retroactivelly create that "dated" feel. So, no - I vehemently disagree with the "dated" statement about LOTR! For me, it continues to be the pinnacle of fantasy and worldbuilding, and all those tropes that seem old are old because of LOTR.
I would very much like to see your "Favorite Fantasy Books Series" video to see which ones you consider the best. Please don't tell me that you prefer "Wheel of Time" (the most overrated fantasy series of all time, imo) over LOTR, because that would be unacceptable, and I'm unfollowing your channel if it is so! :)
I think we have different definitions of the word "dated". For me, that term can mean many things, including something that is old-fashioned and out of date. Not necessarily just something that is new but feels old.
I kind of feel similarly to Lord of the Rings as I do to Citizen Kane. Both are unquestionably (for me) the most defining and important works in their respective fields, but I don't think they hold up when compared to modern great works.
Nobody writes Fantasy the way that Tolkien and other English writers did during their days.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews Tolkien had invented the trope, so he became the grandfather of modern fantasy. So for me LotR is a timeless and classic. It will never be dated. Academic scholars will keep studying it till the end of time. You should read the Silmarillion, the bible of middle earth, so you will understand all those characters mentioned. You will understand also why there is the lord of the rings.
I kept watching this to find a series that I have read. And yet, with each new entry, I found one that I had looked at, read the audible or other reviews on, and rejected or thought, oh I’ll check that out one day but nothing worth paying for right now. The Murderbot Diaries was the only thing on my: will probably start reading this year list.
I shall now pay more attention to your videos, since apparently our tastes lineup more than I expected.
I agree with the ones I've read. Only things I would add are Six of Crows and The Rage of Dragons
Haven't read Six of Crows yet, but I actually thought Rage of Dragons was quite good.
😆 I still want to try The Fifth Kingdom, partly because I bought it at a library book sale but I’m not afraid to DNF. 👍 I appreciate your honesty!
Thank you, and I love your channel!
I agree.
Outside of the broken empire.
I really loved it because it was....something else. :P
Yeah I hear that - it is quite different from a lot of other mainstream fantasy.
I totally understand why you the goblin emperor wasn't for you. Gah I adore that book ,Maya and that world. I read the books under the name Sarah monette. I really think you should avoid anything written by her 💜💜💜
Yeah I'll definitely avoid!
Did you like the 2nd book in this series?
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews book 2 is shorter. She focused less on the naming system . The follow up books are more murder mysteries with the priest as lead
Your take on dresden files is....wild. yeah, harry wants to protect women...okay? Not everybody is flaming leftist who think men and women are the same. And at least he admits the way he is (which makes it far more interesting to read). I also find it funny you didnt get to changes but comment on his character growth....bro...just...wow. i dont think you should comment on that until youve read changes and ghost story. I genuinely think your opinions on Dresden are...a hot take to say the least. But ill defend your right to say it! Hope you finish the rest of the series some day!
Yeah I hear you, but I also don't think you should have to read 12 books in order to experience character growth.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews the character growth is there before 12. Its subtle for sure. But ive always viewed dresden books as just being fun reads and not necessarily caring about stuff like that.
Harry is 100% a 'benevolent misogynist'.
He learns though.
Not least because as the series progresses, he's consistently put to shame by the women around him kicking his arse.
@@derrisreaditbefore i just dont care. Im unapologettically a fan of men protecting women. And im also a massive fan of women being able to take care of themselves in most areas of life.
My experience with the Dresden Files was similar. I loved the premise and listened to half a dozen audio books. The sexism didn't bother me, but after a while they just became repetitive and I petered out.
Yeah, way too "samey" for me. Good concept, just didn't develop it enough for me.
20:30 how this got so prized?
Very simple, this book is basically the official BLM fantasy book, so every supporter of the movement voted it and enjoyed full media promotion.
Yeah makes sense.
This is like saying "worst movies and TV shows about the mafia" : The sopranos. Goodfellas. Casino. The godfather. Lol. I actually have a use for this channel. ..If he dislikes it that means it's great and I'll buy it immediately.
LOL. You can see my top 10 favorite series on my channel as well, and there are tons of "fan favorites" on that list as well.
@@MattsFantasyBookReviews yeah, busting chops a bit. Actually it reminds me of a fragrance reviewer that I watch ( I collect fragrances) he hates lots of stuff that I love and that other people loved and that are masterpieces. But he also like some really cool stuff too. So I just watch his list of likes instead of the dislikes and it's still cool.
I was watching this thinking, “oh this is one of those posers who thinks NK Jemison is a good writer”.. aaand you completely rehabilitated your list with your choice of #1! And yes, she’s basically single handedly wrecked the Hugos for me.
Some of these others are so good though.
LOL. Your comment reminds me of this:
ua-cam.com/video/qkyoHohhCIA/v-deo.html
In my many of years of reading Sanderson I've never heard anyone say Era 2 is better. Not sure where you got that from lol
I see it pretty commonly talked about on Reddit whenever there is a post about Era 2.
Nice one! This was a very entertaining list for me, because compared to my own opinions, this was all over the map!
* First of all, I'm so glad someone agree with me that Dresden is overrated. For me the main thing are the religious themes that just make me cringe every time. I have read (listened to) them all, because they are entertaining enough, but after the snoozefest that was the last two installments, I'm done!
* I loved Broken earth! Even though I knew the twist going in. The first book is the best in the series though. I doesn't make it to my best of all time list, but it's in the discussion. The first book might have my favorite ending sentence of a book. That's a smaller but more interesting twist that's always obscured by the the "big twist".
* BUT your initial comments on Broken earth, that's pretty much my view on Mistborn (both eras). There is obviously something I'm missing. But I don't get the hype at all. Predictable character work, overly explained magic system (I don't care about magic systems, just get on with the plot already).
* I like murderbot! I think she is one of the most relatable characters in sci-fi
Thanks for the content, keep it up!
Thanks for the kind words John, they are much appreciated! Appreciate your perspectives on these books as well.
You think you know how the story ends because of the title? Here's a hint: emperor is nothing. The Broken Empire is part of an entire universe with characters that simply never die and Jorg is so much more than just an 'emperor'.
Jorg is destined to war with God.
Jorg was meant to be dispicable so Mark got that right,yea the titles give away what will happen but the best thing is what he did to get there that boy was diabolical "the boys" diabolical, i agree Wayne is a poor character cant stand him, LOTR is god tier,
Yeah I think he intended to write Jorg as despicable, but at least for me - I didn't enjoy reading about him.
It seems that you really enjoy plot twists, but not every book needs one and I don't think that's the point of The Fifth Season. As you said, there are way too many clues all along, starting from the title of the first chapter and so much more that actually what happens at the end shouldn't come as a reveal to anyone, but just as the moment where things round up together. Why not do things more traditionally then? Well, it keeps things more interesting and allows us to understand the world the characters live in from many different points of view at the same time. This world, this society they live in, explains why the characters react like they do and that's the point too, a reflection on abuse and discrimination in a world where these things are accepted for what they are. The characters are not likeable, I agree, we don't want to be them, but that's on purpose. In exchange we get so much food for thought and that's what I appreciate about the book. Just my opinion.
Remember guys. Overrated ≠ bad
lol yup. For example I really do like Lord of the Rings!
Ive read all three books in Broken Empire. The way of writing is extremely confusing. You would think the choppy chronology would eventually flow in together to come to some sort of point but while his past certainly made him who he is, the chronology would go from him being 10 to 15 to 13 to back to being 10 and then Mark Lawrence does the show dont tell thing to a fault. Like I couldn't understand the builder sun was a ******* ****** until I literally went and looked it up. But I dont regret reading the books at all!
Yeah it's so choppy, and it doesn't surprise me that it doesn't come together at some point. Such a weird writing decision!
I actually found myself agreeing with a lot of your picks, especially the poppy war and lotr. But the one that made go "Thank you!" Was the mention of Prince of Thorns. The book just goes nowhere, character development is a 0. He's a piece of crap and by the end...is still just a piece of crap. He can't even become a bigger piece of crap because he's already there! It just made the story feel pointless and tbh kinda boring after the initial shock value wears off.
Great video! Good on you for sharing an unpopular opinion. You're not alone!
Thanks so much, it's shocking to me how many people agree on a lot of these. Love to hear it!
Only one I disagree with is The Tower of Babel series. I just had a great time in that world. But I can definitely see where you are coming from 👍
If that's the only one you disagree with then I'll take it! :)
Thanks so much for highlighting the main problems with Dresden as a character where other reviewers just brush it off. I've read the first 3 books and I'm dragging myself through book 4 because everyone recommends this series and promises that the misogyny is absent in the latter installments but after seeing your review and confirming that Dresden's inner monologue about endless sex and 'women are so helpless and always need a strong man' attitude doesn't change I'm so giving up on this series. Sad thing is I really liked the magical world Butcher created but I just can't handle Dresden's POV. It just goes against all my fundamental beliefs as an independent woman. Poppy War started well for me but by the end it just went downhill. Couldn't even complete Prince of Thorns because I hated every character in that story. Already subscribed to your channel. Thanks for being so truthful and not holding back. These criticisms are important just as much as the praise these books get.
Thank you so much for the kind words, they are much appreciated! Yeah it's kind of crazy to me that people try to downplay the Dresden thing. And like you said, for a series that is in single person POV the entire time - for me to not like the main character is a huge deal-breaker.
Yes, Dresden has a blind side where the damsel in distress is involved but really, when he needs help, when he needs backup, who does he call? Murphy. Actions speak louder.
I'm outing myself as an angry 40+yr old feminist. Did I struggle with early Dresden? Yes. Did I trust those who persuaded me to keep going? Grudgingly. Am I now a *massive* fan of Dresden and about to re-read the entire series for the 3rd time? Also yes.
I am only through book 4 so far. I find Harry's POV to be annoying sometimes, but it helps if I remember that he is only like 23 years old.
You are absolutely right about N.K. Jemison. I didn't actively hate it, as you did, and managed to drag myself through the trilogy. But it was crap. You are missing nothing whatsoever by not continuing. It most certainly did not win the Hugo on merit.
Also, I'm glad to finally find someone else who agrees that Mistborn Era 2 is lackluster. I suspect I like Wayne better than you do, and if I were to make a list like this it wouldn't be in my top 10. But I just don't get why people love it so much. I consider it basically unnecessary. Which is not to say I won't read the new one when it comes out--I just wish he'd spent the time that went into these books doing something else with a different Cosmere world.
Thanks so much!
Anyone paying attention to what’s going on in society today can figure out why N. K. Jemisin has gotten such acclaim and awards for such lousy and amateurish writing.
I haven't read The Fifth Season, but the cynic in me wonders if it won its awards because it touched on the right political/social agendas and was written by a black woman.