This is why I want a new Smash game in a few years than more DLC right now. I want Nintendo to go back and revisit the older characters and reimagine them to give them the treatment the modern characters get.
Yeah having a ton of characters on the roster is great but I don't see them being able to keep this up after Ultimate...but then again I would've thought that was going to be the case after Smash 4 too LOL It just feels very overdue for some of the game's most iconic characters to have movesets like the newer characters on the roster
Jigglypuff Changes - Side Special (Wake-Up Slap): Jigglypuff slides forward while punching. The move deals three times as much damage and knockback to opponents that are asleep. The punch also deals heavy shield damage, almost breaking a full one. Up Special (Fairy Wind): Jigglypuff rolls in mid-air as a pink, mysterious wind starts sending it upwards. The wind lasts for a few short seconds, but it can be controlled by tilting the control stick. Does mild damage. Pound is changed to Dash Attack. Sing is changed to Down Special. Final Smash (Twinkle Tackle): Jigglypuff pulls out a microphone and sings into it, causing stars to bounce around the stage, ricocheting off the surfaces and screen edges. If an opponent is hit by one of the stars, they will become stunned. Jigglypuff will then roll into all of them, dealing heavy damage and knockback. Victory Animation 4: Jigglypuff deflates and then reinflates.
I think Pikachu needs to add Iron Tail and Eletroweb as part of he's moveset. Iron Tail should be the side special instead of Skull Bash and works similar to Mii Swordfighter's Airborne Assault. Eletroweb should be a grab move referencing to Pikachu Libre from Pokken Tournament.
Yeah it's crazy with how iconic Iron Tail is to Pikachu's moveset in the anime that it hasn't been added to his Smash moveset At the very least add a visual effect to his up air to make it look like Iron Tail
Iron Tail should to be its Up Smash, since it performs it with its tail. Volt Tackle should to be its Side B (similar to Charizard's Flare Blitz). And for its new Final Smash...come on! it has two signature Z-Moves, just take one (I would choose 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt).
K Rool and Diddy having movesets that are truer to the characters is definitely a biproduct of DK being added to Smash in the first game It's just a bummer that the only change that DK has gotten over the course of the series to better represent his game is the dash attack from Donkey Kong Country :/
If I'd change anyone it'll definitely be Ganondorf. He's the only character who checks all the boxes of what not to do. He doesn't feel like the character, he's based on someone completely unrelated, his moveset doesn't reflect his design (nothing screams "warlock") and he doesn't feel adjusted to Smash properly. I get his strong moves are supposed to denote his power, but it comes at the cost of almost everything else, making him one of the worst fighters in the series, across multiple games.
I kinda like to think that, whenever he uses Warlock Punch, he's harnessing the Triforce of Power's... well, power. I know it doesn't make sense since he's a Captain Falcon clone, but just let Ganondorf players have this one.
One thing that I think would make the older characters feel less stale is dlc skins, stages and songs. Rather than focusing only on new character additions, they should keep the main game itself constantly updated and fresh.
They have definitely done a good job of continuing to add new songs and stages for the older characters but I agree about the DLC skins. Getting builder and wedding Mario was super cool and I wish more of the classic fighters had stuff like that
@@PowPowSmash It's crazy that nintendo doesn't seem to plan on working on the continuity of smash with many updates like I would buy costumes for the fighters without a doubt and btw what is your opinion on mii costumes, it's annoying to see them in the smash presentations for me.
Fun Fact: They actually significantly updated Bowser in Smash 4 -They made him much faster than he was in Melee and Brawl (he literally went to slow as hell, to among the top 20 fastest character in the game, he's even faster than Marth and Inkling combined) -They also changed more than 2 moves, which includes jab, dash attack, n-air, b-air, f-smash and then later in Ultimate d-smash too -They even not only made him stand up right, but also even gave him (and Jr. and Plant) his own victory theme They did much more than baby steps (unlike with DK and Ganondorf), and he still doesn't have his voice nor personality also, remember what Bowser's moveset was like in Melee and Brawl? chances are you don't, shell spins to Bowser were like spin dashes to Sonic K. Rool may not have his voice, but he does have his personality (his voice is less beast-like than DK and Bowser too), same with Dedede (who Sakurai himself voices) and Ridley. Finally, one more thing, It took 11 years for his Up-B to be canon for once (unless count that wired shell roll in Galaxy as a shell spin). There's several more moves that were originally made-up in smash that later became canon for once, like Luigi's Green Missile in Mario & Luigi say Paper Jam iirc, Ridley's Space Pirate Rush (hate the name of his side-b) in Other M, Dedede's Jet Hammer in Super Star Ultra, and Ike's side-b in FE Fates (at least the name, the move is canon but not the name until that point). and yes, Ridley's side-b was made-up before he was even playable, if you remembered that one cutscene in SSE where he was dragging Samus on the wall.
Yeah they did a lot for Bowser and way more than other deserving characters, but I still wish he was more like himself. Two other things though, I'm not sure if Dedede's Jet Hammer in Ultra was because of Brawl because of there very close release dates and Dedede juat straight up using a completely different hammer from his original unlike Brawl where there's just a jet in the hammer. Also Meta Knight also had his Brawl and Smash 4 final smash, Galaxia Darkness, canonized in Planet Robobot in the mode Meta Knightmare Returns.
I really commend Sakurai and his team for making such a rich game filled with characters who feel like they jumped right out of their games but that just makes the characters that don't feel like that stand out for criticism. As much as I hate to say it, I feel like a roster cut is necessary for some quality over quantity changes for some of these characters.
Agreed on both things, it says a lot about how good Smash is if one of my complaints is "Mario's moveset is boring". I just don't see how they can continue to top the series if they only keep adding characters without updating the old ones
Honestly I don’t really think anyone (apart from Corrin) would need to be removed. Many characters are greatly designed or badly designed, everyone has some kind of potential to improve or could just be completely revamped. I don’t think Mario’s moveset has to be changed to not be”boring” as being a fighter who is good at platform combos makes sense, due to Mario being the “Jumpman.” (But Mario really needs to smile WAY more often in his moveset) I don’t think every character needs to be hugely changed to be a good design, just look at Captain Falcon! I do believe there are characters who are completely outdated and have designs that feel completely nonsense, (Samus, Little Mac, Olimar) but that’s just my opinion. I do understand why Sakurai wants to keep the characters the same, so people have the same Mains they like to play, even though the Gameplay in this game is always changing each installment. I also, feel like JigglyPuff is supposed to be a Joke Character. And lastly, I feel complicated about how I feel on Dr. Mario, but that’s a Subject for another day. All I can say about him is that he is VERY much of a wasted potential Moveset.
@@josiahthediscontinued9976 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Intelligent Systems wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Intelligent Systems knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Pichu Changes - Neutral Special (Electroweb): Pichu launches forwards a net made of electric energy that entraps and shocks the opponent, causing paralysis. Side Special (Nuzzle): Pichu leaps forwards and grabs onto an enemy that it meets in its path; it then delivers multiple electric shocks to the target as it nuzzles against them. Up Special (Thunder Punch): Pichu performs an uppercut, soaring skywards as its fist gets enveloped in electrical energy. Down Special (Shock Wave): Pichu releases a wave of electricity around itself; the shockwave travels a decent amount of distance around Pichu, moving outwards on both sides. The move carries opponents hit by it with the shock wave and away from Pichu. Up tilt has faster speed and slightly more range. New ability from Pichu taken from its Static ability; Pichu has a chance of releasing an electric shock on opponents when attacked. Recoil damage no longer a factor, however, spamming of electricity-based attacks can cause Pichu to faint, leaving it vulnerable for a few seconds before waking up. These attacks include: All special attacks, forward throw, forward air, up smash, forward smash, down throw, up throw, dash attack. Pummel is not counted. Victory Animation 4: Pichu excitedly cries "Pichu, Pi!" as it spins around twice on one foot, then jumps up twice while clapping both its feet and releasing small sparks.
That "If I can't have funny Bowser in smash" line actually hit hard. Even sadder when you realize he's from the Paper Mario franchise, a game series that's lost its magic over the last few years. (The writing is still good but it used to be great)
Mhmm, I made multiple Paper Mario videos on the channel before I shifted my focus to Smash and that was one thing I always touched on. The writing is still good but the franchise is still trying to figure out what it wants to be since they refuse to make it a turn based rpg again
@@PowPowSmash I would be fine with having an action adventure Paper Mario game but they really don't want to let go of the RPG aspect for some reason. They say they don't want to make RPG's but then add RPG like gimmicks like turn based battles, badges, etc. It's like the franchise is fighting with itself and it honestly makes me pretty dreadful for the series' future.
@@alexanderadams9058 exaaactly, they have yet to figure out a good way to incentivize battling without having an exp system. By the end of Origami King the only thing I had left to buy with the coins I got from battle were trophies which I didn't care about so I finished the final castle in like an hour because I avoided all of the enemies I didn't have to fight lmfao
Luigi Changes - Side Smash (Hammer): Similarly to Mario, Luigi now wields his Hammer from Mario & Luigi. Unlike Mario's, however, he swings it forwards, rather than slamming it on the ground. Side Special (Poltergust Push): Luigi takes out his Poltergust and switches it from Suck to Blow. He then blasts forwards a gust of air. Higher Jump Height. Up Special (Balloon World): Replaces Super Jump Punch. Luigi equips his luggage with balloons from Super Mario Odyssey, and can be controlled as he flies up for a few seconds before the balloons dissociate from him. Like Villager's and Isabelle's up specials, opponents can pop the balloons. Up Smash (Short Jump Punch): Luigi does a little 'super jump punch' that covers very little distance but still retains its ability to afflict critical hits. Neutral Special (Flashlight): Luigi pulls out his Flashlight and turns it on, dealing damage to those in its light. Down Aerial (Scuttle Kick): Based off of Luigi's scuttling kick ability seen in many Mario games. Like in those games, this move slows his falling speed as long as he is using the attack. The attack multi-hits several times. Poltergust tether grab can now be used as a tether recovery. Dash Attack (Luigi Skid): Luigi skids along the ground with one leg extended to kick in front of him. Based off of his attribute in the Mario games where he has less traction than Mario. Forward Aerial (Frenzy Punch): Luigi does a quick succession of punches; used to be his dash attack, but now has less hits than before and is used in the air. Back Aerial (Baton Strike): Based on Luigi's appearances in several Mario games leading a parade at the end of the game. Luigi turns in the air and swings a parade leader baton. Down Throw (Polterburn): Luigi slams the opponent down and burns them with the Fire element from the first Luigi's Mansion. Down Special (Thunderhand): Like Mario's Firebrand, Thunderhand originates from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, where it was Luigi's signature move. Luigi charges a thunderball that can electrocute opponents with greater force the longer it's charged. If used normally, it works similarly to the previous Fireball, with an electric effect instead of fire. If fully charged, Luigi will say "Thunder!" just like in that game. Down Taunt: A pillow appears next to Luigi as he quickly sits down and becomes sleepy, yawning as he emanates a dreamy aura. This is a reference to Mario & Luigi: Dream Team. Victory Animation 4: Luigi tiptoes with his Poltergust on his back and his flashlight turned on. The flashlight winks out and Luigi cries out in fear, tripping and falling on his butt. He then flicks the flashlight back on and rubs the back of his head while laughing nervously.
Falco Changes - Neutral Special (Star Sniper): Falco takes out the Star Sniper rifle and fires it forwards. A small red laser light indicates where he is aiming; the weapon can be aimed up and down and fires a long-range, fast laser blast. It must be charged up to increase the range and power. Side Special (Homing Launcher): Falco fires the Homing Launcher forwards, shooting a missile that homes in on opponents and explodes. Up Special (Barrel Roll): Falco performs a flying barrel roll spin in the input direction. Down Special (Absorber): Much like Falco's old down special, he kicks the Absorber out and then has it return to him; instead of reflecting projectiles, it absorbs them; the Absorber itself also damages opponents directly. Final Smash (Arwing): Falco says, “Personally, I prefer the air!” and then leaps off the top of the screen as an Arwing passes by and he climbs inside. Falco then appears in the foreground in his Arwing and fires laser blasts at the stage. At the end of the Final Smash, a small target reticulated different from the other one appears. Press the special attack button and Falco will fly towards the stage doing a barrel roll and will instantly K.O. anyone he hits, much like a Dragoon. Down Aerial (Sky Claw): Falco swipes below him with one arm; carries him a small distance into the air. Down Smash (Wing Buffet): Falco slams both of his arms down on each side; can produce wind around him that pushes opponents back. Up Smash (Flip Wing): Falco does a backflip, swinging an arm upwards. Pummel (Peck): Falco pecks the victim. Up Aerial (Sky Claw): Falco swipes above him with one arm; carries him a small distance into the air. Up Throw (Bird Throw): Falco tosses the victim upwards and then shoots at them with his sniper rifle. Down Throw (Double Kick): Falco throws the opponent to the ground and then stomps downwards on them twice while passing over them. Up Tilt (Wing Sling): Falco swings one arm in an arc above his head. Back Throw (Missile Shot): Falco throws the opponent backwards and shoots them once with his homing launcher.
I'm kinda dissappointed at the dev's decision of "keep the moveset, but make it do something." like cmon, Ganon deserves better than 'Falcon Puch but slower and stronger', 'Falcon Kick but slower and stronger', 'Falcon Dive but slower and stronger' and even 'Falcon uptilt but slower and stronger'. Imo they should change uptilt and map the old one to neutralb angled down or something, should they keep it at all. (It is a very cool move ngl)
Yeah it's annoying how they made echo fighters a thing but think characters like Doc are different enough to be their own characters You're definitely right that Ganon's uptilt can stay even if they change the rest of his moveset
The spinjump being his down b is kind of a stretch imo, the animations aren't very similar. I definitely forgot about Mario dash attack in 64 but are you sure about downtilt? Are you sure you don't mean downsmash?
A change I've wanted to see to Mario is changing his side smash to a hammer. The flame fist thing makes no sense, it's what someone totally unfamiliar with Mario would come up with. Meanwhile, plenty of games feature charged hammer slams from Mario. (Mostly RPGs, but he does use a hammer in Donkey Kong, too.)
See they're saving the sidesmash using Mario's hammer for when they add Paper Mario to Smash ;)))) I agree though, the only thing I could see the fireball sidesmash being a reference to is the fire hand from Superstar Saga but that game came out after Mario got the attack in Smash
Now I'd like to pretend I have more things to do than to give my take on some of the characters mentioned as well as a few of my own....the hint word being pretend: Mario: I believe the old Down B Spin Attack might be a reference to the Spin Jump from Super Mario World which is why it was moved to an aerial but that's me reaching. The only other thing I can think of is the spin from Mario Galaxy which is a game that came out like a decade later. So yeah Mario's in need of a spucing up. Have Cappy be more than a glorified cameo. I'm not asking to capture other players I just want to use him as an attack. Luigi: I think Luigi's a prime example of Sakurai's "alienating players" statement coming into question. If Luigi and Falco get to have their characters tweeked with from game to game, why can't other older characters get some love. Doc: Look, if they insist on keeping Doc as his own character, the least they could do is make an effort to try and reference what little they can get from Dr. Mario. Have his Smash attacks be him bringing out a viruses akin to Pac-Man or Olimar or have his final Smash be dropping pills instead of a generic reskin of the Mario Finale, an already bland move. DK: I'm so tired of DK just being "generic gorilla" for his Smash appearances, he's usually not even that angry unless you tamper with his banana horde and he doesn't even use his now well established voice actor. In his moveset, I'm sure there are better things to pull from than a generic headbutt, slamming the ground and ripping off Dixie for an Up B. Bowser: Bowser suffers from the same problems DK does. He's just a beast and instead of Bowser's well known roars we get Godzilla. As for his moves, his Down B is actually a reference to the Bowser Bomb from Mario 3 but that's it. He doesn't even spit fire correctly. I know Bowser's a hard man to keep track of since he can go from being in a snazzy tux to having the title of Godslayer at the drop of a hat but there has to be a way for Bowser to have references without them feeling outdated by his literal next appearance. Jigglyfuff: Not my first choice but definitely understandable. It would be cool to have a Fairy move like Disarming Voice as a projectile to replace Rollout. Kirby: On the topic of pink balls I wanted to bring up Kirby. Most of his normals are just "foot attack", like not even the Fighter ability sometimes, just "foot attack. This guys thing is having so many different abilities but his moves as a whole just feels shallow. The Links: Just do something different between them instead of slight variations of the same thing I don't think anyone would complain if Tink and Yink got different moves because of Bink still being there. Ganondorf: It took four games for Ganon to get something that didn't feel like he was ripping off the Captain and it still feels like baby steps. Falcon's moveset isn't even from a game, it's made up. Ganondorf has games in droves to pull from yet we had to wait 4 games to see progress. Just....just let him hover next game. Please? For the fans? Sonic: Why can't Sonic catch a break in these games. Being added late isn't an excuse anymore for his like 9 ball moves and it hasn't been since Sm4sh. Just give him some Battle moves, switch his Side B to Down B because that's how it should've been, make his new Side B Boost or LSD and we're golden. And give some personality for Chip's sake. His attitude is one of his defining features and it's been stripped away since Brawl and replaced with a glued on smile. I don't particularly like ragging on Smash considering it's high attention to detail especially with characters since Smash 4 but that doesn't mean the flaws should be ignored entirely. I simply want my favourite characters to be represented properly cause that's what Smash prides itself on. I just want characters to feel and play like themselves. Wow this was long. Did not expect to ramble this much. Ah well.
Castform you're spitting facts from top to bottom in this comment bud, well said! Saying "For Chip's sake" when talking about Sonic is amazing and I cannot believe I haven't heard it sooner XD Always love your insightful comments on my videos!
@@PowPowSmash Oh thank you. I've actually noticed recently from rewatching some of your videos that I can kinda just go on tangents in the comments sometimes XD. I kinda don't like doing it because it's sort of a chore to read but I have a lot of thoughts and just run with them and by the time I realize that it may be a bit wordy already, I think I'm too far in and just get the rest of it down. I also sometimes try to make an easily digestible "side comment" like the one I posted here or the one on the Pyra and Mythra vid so I can make a different shorter point and seperate it from a comment that'll take like 5 minutes to read. I'm glad you like them though. You should probably expect more in the future. I also put way more thought in the "for Chip's sake". I was just planning on doing Chaos since that's just the regular replacement for "god" but then I thought "wait wasn't Chip like....a god in Unleashed. I don't think anyone's done that yet. I'm gonna do that."
DK's Down-B is canon tho, can't say the same with his other 3 specials besides Up-B, which he took from Dixie KOng also, remember when Kirby had his Fire dash attack replace with another foot attack in Brawl? they just now took that back in Ultimate EDIT: they also changed his side-tilt and Side-B to be from Twilight Princess in Brawl and also his up-smash and down-tilt before, as well as the animation of his down-smash and jab
@@goGothitaLOL Actually Kirby's Brawl and Sm4sh Dash Attack is the Break Spin from the Yo-Yo ability in Super Star. No idea why they changed a fireball to a headspin but hey. Flubbed the DK one though, my bad
The answer here is custom specials. Full Palutena style custom specials. Then you get the best of both worlds. New moves and old moves to choose at your leisure.
Pikachu Changes - Side Special (Iron Tail): Pikachu encases its tail in a durable iron armor, and then leaps forwards while tumbling through the air, striking an opponent with its iron tail when it comes into contact with them. Up Special (Agility): Pikachu becomes lightweight and leaps high into the air. During the leap, Pikachu can damage opponents. For the next thirty seconds after using the move, Pikachu will have increased jump height, but decreased weight. Final Smash (Catastropika): Pikachu rises into the air and begins charging up electricity. After awhile, it will surround itself in a sphere of electrciity that explodes, dealing massive damage and knockback to opponents in the blast radius. Victory Animation 4: Pikachu darts from side to side while launching two Electro Balls, spins forward while swinging its tail twice, then wraps it up with an uppercut before landing with a smirk. This is similar to one of its victory poses from Pokken Tournament.
Okay, so this idea’s going to seem like a pipe dream, but hear me out. What if the Smash devs released an additional DLC pack after Fighters Pack 11 is revealed that makes small updates to older characters’ move sets? And to keep it from “alienating older players,” we’d still have the option to use the original move sets. It’d work similarly to how you switch between Pyra and Mythra on the character select screen. Basically, you’d select your character then press Y to choose the new move set. (This is also how it’s done for echo fighters when you set their character select icons to stacked instead of having them separate.) I know it may never actually happen, but just imagine how much it’d fix.
I think the hardest problem to fixing the moveset is, how will it look in motion without it backfiring on the core mentality of Smash? Like you want the character to be their personality, but you don’t want it to come at the cost of limited movement. If Mario was to get an update, Odyssey would be the prime choice for moves inspiration due to Rosalina having the Galaxy moveset. But I would love to see just a bit more personality in the characters. Not a lot, just a bit to add flare.
Agreed! The dev team has shown an ability to make the characters feel like they were pulled out of their own games (except banjo, he's way too slow for a platformer character) Mario's movement in Odyssey feels so good that I would love to be able to have him play more like that in Smash
@@PowPowSmash Right! Animations go along way to for the characters to feel like themselves and in a fighting game like Smash, I feel it has a right to be as much as it wants. So I hope an animation update comes after all DLC so you can really see these characters shine.
also, replace Wario's usually useless current down-smash with the Earthshake Punch from Wario Land: Shake It, and maybe change his side-smash to be the faster kick from Wario Land too. and no, it won't bury like it does in Project M. (we already have Game & Watch's down-smash for that)
Ivysaur (New) - Now by itself. Down Special (Synthesis / Solar Beam): Ivysaur will begin taking in sunlight, healing its health by 2% every two seconds. It can hold this state by holding the special button, and it can be cancelled into any action. If it replenishes 40% damage with the move, it can use Solar Beam, indicated by its bulb glowing white. When used, Ivysaur stands on its front legs to aim its bulb forward before firing a beam of solar energy, dealing heavy damage and knockback. Once this is done, it must replenish more damage with Synthesis to use Solar Beam again. Side Smash (Sludge): Ivysaur spews a blast of poison from its bulb forward. Down Aerial (Gunk Shot): Ivysaur turns upside down and spews a blast of sludge from its bulb. Forward Throw (Energy Ball): Ivysaur blasts the opponent away with a green energy orb. Back Throw (Power Whip): Ivysaur's vine grows bigger as it slams the opponent behind it. Up Throw (Stun Spore): Ivysaur heaves the opponent above itself as it spews spores from its bulb onto them. This causes the opponent to grow a flower on their head. Down Throw (Mega Drain): Ivysaur slams the opponent into the ground, them absorbs their health with its vines before stomping on them. Final Smash (Bloom Doom): Ivysaur swings a long vine forward. If it hits an opponent, they are locked in a cinematic where they are in the middle of a meadow. Ivysaur then appears with its evolutions, Bulbasaur and Venusaur. Together, all 3 of them become surrounded in a light green aura, causing the meadow to be covered in flowers. The Z-Power surrounding the evolutions then rapidly expands, creating a giant explosion that damages opponents heavily and sends them back to the stage, launching them. Victory Animation 3: Ivysaur jumps and releases some spores from its bulb before landing on its belly. Victory Animation 4: Ivysaur releases a storm of leaves before standing in a battle-ready pose. Round Loss: Ivysaur sits on its bottom as it claps for the winner. On-Screen Appearance: Ivysaur emerges from a Poké Ball and whips a vine. Boxing Ring Alias: Dinosaur Plant.
Bowser main here with some potential moveset changes: F-Tilt just doesn’t make sense. As good a move as it is, we gotta change it. Bowser quickly roars forwards while breathing fire, giving him a solution for swordies. However it is still a bit punishable. U-Tilt is gonna be what the U-Smash currently is. A shell thrust. It’s faster though, of course. His Dash Attack is gonna be a headbutt, like his old F-Smash. F-Smash NEEDS to be the punch from Bowser’s Inside Story. Look at that move and tell me it doesn’t scream F-Smash. U-Smash is another fire move. He roars upwards while breathing fire, making five small explosions from back to front. So it’s like Samus’ U-Smash, but also a reference to his NSMBW boss fight. D-Smash is the Odyssey tail spin. Functionally it’s a lot like the current one, hitting in front, then behind. But of course his tail is on fire. B-Air is his old one, a shell thrust with armor and surprising vertical coverage. Bowser probably shouldn’t have a projectile since his design is based around being exploitable between strong attacks, just like in his games. But Fire Breath does still need a revamp. Make it a chargeable move Uncharged is a weak burst. It’s base knockback is okay for getting opponents away, but it won’t be killing until far past 300%. Semi-Charged functions like his current version, lasting a set one second. Fully-Charged is a massive flame that lasts three seconds, and is only slightly smaller than GIGA Bowser’s. But what’s the catch? Well, just like in the RPG series, timing is everything. If you’re too slow, he’ll just revert back to the uncharged version. Plus, he’s super vulnerable while charging, which fits better with his playstyle. Side Special is super boring. End of story. Make him do one of the most iconic things that Koopas do. SPIN IN HIS SHELL! It would be like Squirtle’s, but slower, and with a bit of armor. His other specials and his FS are fine. Finally, his alts. Keep Brown, Red, Green, and Gray, then add ones for Midbus, Dark Bowser, and his wedding outfit from Odyssey.
Roy is pure rushdown so giving him a projectile which presumably would work something like Palutena’s side b would be kind of counterproductive. It probably wouldn’t be something like Frizz etc just due to differentiation so idk
There's a way to give rushdown characters projectiles like fox laser so it could definitely be done, but even if the fire moves aren't projectiles at least take the time to give him different specials is all I would want. Even Pyra and Mythra have different specials and they're one character lol
yeah, like Roy is literally the opposite of Marth Marth wants to space his sword on the tipper, whiling Roy literally wants to go right up your face in close combat
@@PowPowSmash I thought of Laser but I guess the main compromise there is that it doesn’t cause flinching meaning it can’t ever score stocks etc. It arguably encourages you to hit more considering it more or less then encourages you to go and hit with one of his strong ground attacks
@@goGothitaLOL yeah I can agree to some degree. As said before the only reason a projectile wouldn’t work if if it was used to zone. If it was implemented in a way where it was more like Zero Suit’s B move where it lacks a lot of range and doesn’t really KO but stuns, it could therefore allow follow ups and complement someone like Roy really well considering that he can struggle with characters who can just block him out of their space.
I'd say the best way to update a moveset is to base it off a direction instead of making them nothing more than a mishmash of references. Make the character feel like the character and game, adjust it to Smash (1-1 recreations rarely work) and then add some references. Mario's specials for example should be based on some of newer games such as Odyssey but would stay physical for most of his moves since Mario's appeal comes from his timelessness.
Sakurai typical combines references from the games with the feeling of playing like the character. Good examples are any of the fighting game reps, Megaman, and the Belmonts
The longer Smash goes on, the more I realize the strengths and weaknesses of making a fighting game composed entirely of guest fighters. Having a roster of guest characters means you get to have fun drawing from the source material of these various games. Characters like the Star Fox characters and Captain Falcon even show how creative the Smash team can get with characters that don't offer a lot of material from their home games for a fighting moveset. With how big Smash is now, getting in as a fighter even helps less popular franchises relevant and not forgotten, calling back again to the Star Fox characters and Captain Falcon. However, many of these franchises evolve independent of Smash, leading to Smash interpretations of some of these characters to become outdated. Even worse, Smash interpretations of characters sometimes gives a bad impression of their franchise; kinda sucks that Wario gets labeled as "that gross guy who just farts." Smash's handling of clone characters is also pretty wonky. Fighting games with original characters can usually get away with the occasional clone since they're built from the ground up as clones. However, since Smash can only use characters with pre-established material, characters like Dark Pit and Dark Samus lose a lot of character as they have to fit within the mold of their original fighter, even though they have their own stuff to offer. Having Young Link and Toon Link as spin-offs of Link's moveset is great on paper until you realize they barely bring anything outside of Link's basic toolkit. In essence, as cool as it is that Everyone is Here, I'm actually looking forward to a Smash sequel that cuts the fat from the roster to take a look at some veterans that could use an update.
Personally I think kirby could use a new moveset, he isn't terrible but they could include a lot more copy abilities in his moveset. Also inhale could really use a buff to make it more capable of dealing with projectiles, the ability to swallow items you inhale hurts it because it takes so long to do it and barely heals you, they shouldn't make the endlag too short but at least make it scale based on what you eat and take less time to heal. Also he should be able to spit out stuff like mario's fireball, but the scaling will make it so its not more powerful than it has any right to. No buffs to inhale outside of that because we wouldn't want succ and cucc to become broken. In smash the only abilities in kirby's moveset are cutter, rock, fighter, and fire/burning all of which come from superstar or kirby's adventure. There's barely any representation for abilities after that.
Yeah I was on the fence about including Kirby in this list, but I couldn't figure out how they would be able to include more of his copy abilities since they kinda just picked a couple of them for his specials. Maybe do something like megaman where his normals are each a different copy ability too?
@@PowPowSmash That's my main thought on how that would work, for example nair could either be a multhit aerial spin with wheel or if they really wanted they could keep it the same but have him use wheel instead of just spinning.
Ganondorf (Changes) - The design of both Ganondorf and Beast Ganon come from Hyrule Warriors. Ganondorf now uses the Trident of Demise from Hyrule Warriors Legends instead of his sword from the SpaceWorld 2000 GameCube Tech Demo. Ganondorf now levitates while walking and running. Ganondorf has the ability to float like in Ocarina of Time, but only for about a second. Jab: Ganondorf uses the Triforce of Power from his back fist to emit dark magic from his back hand that hits multiple times before launching them forward. It sort of works like Mewtwo's Rapid Jab. Based off of the Darkness Wave from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Dash Attack: Ganondorf's old Side Special will now be his new Dash Attack (animation wise), except it's just a strong attack rather than a command grab. Inspired by a scene from Twilight Princess. Side Tilt: Ganondorf performs an outward slash with his Trident. Based off of an attack he does in The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds for his boss fight. Can be angled up or down, and is great for spacing. Up Tilt: Ganondorf uses the Triforce of Power to create a rising geyser of darkness in front of him, hitting multiple times and sending opponents upwards! The attack is really strong, but it's quite laggy. (It's like his Up Tilt from Project +) Down Tilt: Ganondorf punches the ground with dark energy, creating a shockwave. Has a chance to trip opponents. Side Smash: Ganondorf uses his Trident, charges it with dark energy, and does a hefty stab in front of him. Resembles one of his attacks from The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds boss fight. Up Smash (Dark Skyward Strike): Ganondorf raises his trident into the air and ignites it in electricity, with light orbs striking onto the ground where he is standing. Based off of the Dark Skyward Strike attack from The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventure. Has a powerful tipper hitbox. Down Smash (Quake Medallion): Ganondorf spins his trident above him, then thrusts his trident down into the ground with full force, creating a series of electrical shockwaves beside him. Inspired by the Quake Medallion used by Link from The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. Neutral Aerial: Ganondorf telekinetically spins his Trident around himself, hitting multiple times. Almost like Byleth's Neutral Aerial. Forward Aerial (Dark Lightning Strike): Ganondorf raises his hands and unleash a bolt of dark lightning forward! Inspired by the Dark Lightning Strike attack that Agahnim, his alter ego, performed in The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. Has nearly the same range as Sephiroth's Forward Aerial. Can be angled up or down at a rough 30 degree angle, just like the Belmont's Forward Aerial. Back Aerial (Dark Lightning Strike): Ganondorf raises his hands behind him and unleash a bolt of dark lightning behind him! Inspired by the Dark Lightning Strike attack that Agahnim, his alter ego, performed in The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. Has nearly the same range as Sephiroth's Forward Aerial. Can be angled up or down at a rough 30 degree angle, just like the Belmont's Back Aerial. Up Aerial: Ganondorf swipes his hand up and around, creating a portal above him that hits multiple times before launching them upwards. It's a little similar to Palutena's Up Aerial in a way. It's large and powerful, but has slow startup and is extremely laggy. Down Aerial (Dark Impact): Ganondorf floats a bit, then falls and punches his fists onto the ground, creating a shockwave on the ground as he lands. Based off of the sequence in his boss fight, dubbed the "Dark Impact" from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time! Can spike opponents as he is falling down until the move ends. Getup Attack (Facing Up): Ganondorf swings his trident around himself. Getup Attack (Facing Down): Ganondorf swings his trident around himself. Getup Attack (Trip): Ganondorf swings his trident around himself. Getup Attack (Ledge): Ganondorf gets up and stabs forward with his trident. Grab: Reaches out with his left hand and telekinetically grabs the foe using dark magic, just like Sephiroth's Grab. Pummel: Squeezes the opponent as corrupted Lifestream radiates from his hand. It's a rather slow Pummel. Forward Throw (Blazing Bats): Ganondorf throws the enemy away, then uses his trident to magically summon 6 Fire Bats toward them. Inspired by an attack he can do in The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. It's similar to Mewtwo's Forward Throw. Back Throw: Ganondorf teleports the opponent behind him, then crosses his arms to send them away and behind himself. It's similar to Sephiroth's Back Throw, but it's actually a kill Throw. Up Throw: Ganondorf telekinetically lifts the opponent up, then slams them onto the ground, bouncing them straight upwards. A very strong kill Throw. Down Throw (Flame Choke): Ganondorf grabs the opponent's face and blasts them with a pulse of dark magic that drops them onto the ground. It functions the same as Ganondorf's old Side Special, which can lead to followups. Neutral Special (Dead Man's Volley): Ganondorf's new Neutral Special will be the Dead Man's Volley from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time! By pressing B, Ganondorf will raise his hands up to charge up a Light Energy Orb. Letting go of B to fire this slow-moving projectile that stuns the enemies when hit before being launched slightly. However, holding B can be charged into different stages (5 stages). In each stage he goes in is how many Light Energy Orbs he will fire out, each dealing 7% damage, with the 2nd stage having him shoot out 2 orbs, dealing 14% total, and the 3rd stage fires 3 orbs, dealing 21% damage total, and vice versa. With each stage, the projectile(s) moves faster, and will still stun the opponent for a short bit before being launched! The move deals massive damage if all the hits connect (dealing 35% damage if all 5 orbs connect in the 5th stage), but it takes a long time to get to full charge, so you'll be left wide open. The Light Orbs can also be hit back by enemies, and you can hit them back as well (with his Side Special), just like in Ocarina of Time. Side Special (Cape): Ganondorf's new Side Special will have him fling his cape in front of him, allowing him to reflect projectiles, though it is one of the weaker reflectors in the game. This is a reference to how he can reflect the light orbs back at Link with his cape in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which he can also do with his Neutral Special in this game. It works just like Mario's current Side Special, the Cape. It will even have the turn-around effect when hit, reversing the opponent's controls for a bit. Up Special (Trident Warp): Ganondorf's new Up Special will be the Trident Warp from The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. Ganondorf throws his spinning Trident in which ever direction you choose (like Ness's PK thunder, but slower) for about a second. After that, wherever the spinning Trident lands, then that's where Ganondorf will teleport to, then reappear afterwards. It's max distance is okay at best. But if you press the B button again the moment you re-appear, then Ganondorf will grab his Trident again as he re-appears, and deliver a poweful slash with it, but you will lose ALL of your momentum in the process. Down Special (Darkness Wave): Ganondorf's new Down Special will be the Darkness Wave from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. This move acts as a command grab, where Ganondorf uses the Triforce of Power to suck the opponent's energy, dealing damage to them, while healing yourself in the process, then launching away with a strong blow for the final hit. It's kind of like Robin's Nosferatu, except the final hit launches the opponent away. The move itself shares an identical animation to his Jab, which is a good way to fake out your opponent into thinking that you used his jab, committing them to shield and using this command grab.
Just give Ganondorf Dead Man's Volley and everything he got in Project M (with some tweaks) and call it a day (he can still have his current sword smash attacks): -Dead Man's Volley can replace Warlock Punch. It can also reflect with his cape if A) a projectile is coming or B) you tap the B button instead. It can also be reflect by certain moves that are stronger enough to reflect it, not just reflectors themselves. -Float would also merge with Dark Dive, you would get it if you hold Up-B. You wouldn't float cancel with it like you can with Peach tho, and maybe change his up-air to be idk, a fucking backward version Ike's f-air. -And another and it may be crazy, but change the animation (and thus the name) of his down-b to be M. Bison's Psychic Crusher instead Capt. Falcon's Falcon Kick, its more fitting. and if you use it in mid-air, you would get the punch from OoT too. -Also, change his animations to look more boss-like (like Sephiroth's) and you're good to go. the new specials (Dead Man's Volley, the cape reflect, and float) alone would be big game-changers, just by themselves. EDIT: you can also just watch this video ua-cam.com/video/y-6KceTRkfg/v-deo.html, sure it doesn't have Dead Man's Volley, nor his current smash attacks, but it does have nearly everything else i suggested
Puff player here Pound is essential to her combo game. Rollout on the otherhand can go cause its usually useless and among contender for worst neutral-b (not named the punchies). You can replace that with Dazzling Gleam or something all you want.
The thing about Mario is that he is the SHOTO of the smash series, he has a fireball, a move to get around projectiles and a dragon uppercut. Down special is more a wild card but so is RYU
I can't believe you didn't spend more time asking for Ganondorf's changes, he is DEFINITELY the character more ridiculously in need of a accurate moveset... Also I maybe would add Little Mac haha
As I said in the video I made another video recently called "The Legend of Zelda Deserves Better in Smash Bros" where I go into way more detail about the changes I would want in Ganondorfs moveset so if you want to hear more you can check that out :)
@@pxnchx93 no worries! That's why I tried to lead with the preface that I go into more detail in that video but based on the comments a lot of people missed that part haha
I kinda understand the alienate thing with moves but honestly the worse contender for ancient no longer relevant move set is Sonic and Kirby. Both coincidently based on their Adventure games. But seriously why don't people mention that Kirby's move set is based of of his second mainline game it's somehow older than what they did with Mario and Samus.
I thought about including Kirby but wasn't sure how to go about updating his moveset since he already uses multiple of his copy abilities that are still around (even some of his throws are references to the throw copy ability). The only thing that I can think of would be to do something similar to megaman where each normal attack is also a copy ability
Actually, most of Mario’s regular movies are based something iconic. Not only his jab, but also his dash attack, down smash/down tilt are from 64, and his Cape is OP. The only change that I thought would’ve been cool would’ve been if his grab was Cappy. You’d capture your opponent, and punch yourself in the face until hopping out and yeeting them into the great beyond.
Everyone keeps mentioning downtilt from 64 so apparently I'm oblivious and have never seen it in my life in that game lol With the amount of command grabs in smash now I think having cappy as a side b would fit right in
@@PowPowSmash as someone whose favorite game is mario 64 i can confirm that down tilt ISN'T from that game, since the only crouched attack mario does is the breakdance, which is a down smash
Who doesn’t love tripping! It makes for an engaging experience that’s parallel to real life! Great video as always brother, it’s nice to see smash content that’s refreshing and engaging the whole way through, excited to see what you come up with next!
Dark Samus could've at least gotten the few moves she used as an assist trophy back in Sm4sh. Honestly "Echo Fighter" sounds like a dumb excuse to get people to stop calling them "clones" when they literally have little to no noteworthy differences. Isabelle gets a pass from me,because at least she has some variations in her moveset that don't bother me at all.
They 100% came up with the term echo fighter in order to try to minimize the clone hate lol. I really wish Dark Samus got a proper moveset Idk why Ken is considered an echo fighter when he has as many original moves in his moveset as Isabelle 💀
Are you asking if I think they will change Mario's Final Smash and Sonic's moveset? They've had three games to change Mario's Final Smash when they've shown that they're willing to change classic character's Final Smash's (Yoshi, Luigi, DK, etc.) so I think that if it was going to happen that would've happened in Ultimate Sonic's moveset has received small tweeks like his dash attack and downsmash so if they trim the roster a lot for Smash 6 I think that they'll update his moveset more
Judging by Nintendo's recent behavior they'll likely release it as Ultimate Deluxe to maintain the massive roster with minor tweaks. Probably the biggest thing would maybe be bringing back Custom Moves but only doing one extra instead of 3 and the return of fan favorite modes and cut stages.
For jigglypuff you have to think more of the character as a parody of the game mechanics or the first joke character in the series and it being a balloon with pound helping as a movement tool in the air cause you can angle it or down, maybe making the move maybe deal more damage to a sleeping opponent would be a good change for more synergy in the moveset but yeah rollout could be changed to a fairy move. It's also funny how the final smash retroactively is now a dynamax reference.
You Know What Bothers Me About DK's Moveset,His Forward Aerial IS FROM Donkey Kong 64! They Included This Exact Move From That Game But Did Not Include His Coconut Gun!
Good thing rivals if aether workshops exists, seriously it has some of the best designed sonics, marios,pit,dark pit, and alot of characters it honestly ridiculous.
Oh really? From what I saw in 64 Bowser just shoots a fireball projectile but I could've missed it. I do see him floating around and shooting fire more like how he does in Smash in Galaxy 2 though you're right!
I have some ideas for Bowser and Ganondorf, here's what i'll change for Bowser: Make him slower, not AS slow as in Melee and Brawl, but still, top 20 fastest characters? The heck? Bowser ain't that fast lol, though he isn't mega slow like in melee and brawl neither. Next, each time he lands on a platform or stage, he creates 2 shockwaves that stop at the egde of the platform/stage. And by every time he lands, I mean EVERY SINGLE time he lands lol. And if he does his down-B, it'll make 6 shockwaves. However his down air won't make any shockwaves, same for his up-B. And his up-B would be something more like King Dedede's, where he jumps high in the air, as Bowser can jump very high in Super Mario 3D land for example. Also I'm thinking of replacing tough guy with "tough shell", basically, Bowser's shell is completely invincible. That means you cant at all attack his back, because it wont hurt him in the slightest. It also means whirling fortress is invincible, same for down air. Also his back air isn't gonna be a kick, because really? When has Bowser EVER kicked his opponents outside of that one time in the mario movie? I say it's gonna be the back air from brawl, where he hits them with his shell, but this time the back air while also launch a spike from the shell, like in Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven stars. And he will breath fireballs if you press B, but will do the fire breath from smash if you hold B. The fireballs will blow up when they hit the opponent. Bowser's jab will be 2 slashes with his claws, and one bite that will launch the opponent. The claws don't do any knockback,only the bite does. His dash attack would be a shoulder bash like Wario, Ganondorf and Samus. He does a shoulder bash in Super Princess Peach. His up smash would be a attack he does in new super Mario bros.U, where if you fly above him in Jr's clown car, he can set his hands on fire and will try slapping you. His up smash is gonna be exactly that,he sets his hands on fire and slaps up in the air. His down smash will be a shell spin, and its gonna be invincible. His forward smash will be his punch from Bowser's inside story, oh, and if it's fully charged it will do 45 damage and can kill at 0%. Lol. Now his neutral air ..... Ok seriously what the hell is that neutral air lol. It's VERY non-Bowser-ish. And also weird. Its gonna be another shell spin, like in brawl, and again, it's invincible. Oh and I imagined of giving Bowser a counter. Basically, if he does his Down B in the air, it'll do the Bowser Bomb, but if he does it while on the ground,it'll make the shield from Mario Odyssey, and it'll be a counter, if the opponent hits the shield, Bowser's tail will be on fire and he'll swipe it at them knocking them away and making a fire wave that will go through the stage. Like in Mario odyssey. And for his final smash, he becomes Giga Bowser and you can control HIM, not just his punch. And for Ganondorf: First of all, make him MUCH, MUUUCH faster. He deserves being top 20 fastest characters moreso than Bowser lol, Ganondorf is always shown as being very fast and agile. Keep all his smash attacks, I think they're good enough. And the Warlock punch, while it doesn't come from any games... It's badass and it does fit Ganondorf. Same for the flame choke. Everything else goes though. First of all, he can float like Peach and Daisy. Second of all, his forward tilt is gonna be the magic electric balls from Ocarina of time. For his neutral air, he'll pull out his two sabers from Wind Waker and spin. For his up tilt... He'll just punch the air I guess, I just want to get rid of his weird leg thing, it's really lame. if he's in the air, for his down B he'll fall back on the ground slamming it with his fists like in Ocarina of Time, it'll make 2 shockwaves, however his fists will be stuck in the ground for 2 seconds. (If I remember that also happened in Ocarina of Time), but if he's on the ground, his down B will be a counter with either his katana from Tears of the Kingdom or the sword of sages from Twilight princess, whichever you prefer. For his recovery, he'll fly up above the stage and will stay flying at that same altitude for like 10 seconds, you can only control if he goes left and right, however by pressing B while he's flying you can shoot down the electric balls at your opponents, and you can just spam it while in the air for 10 seconds. You'll stop flying if you get hit even once though. For his final smash, he's gonna turn into the Mandrag Ganon from Hyrule Warriors, and you can CONTROL him like Giga Bowser instead of just doing 1 attack. He can attack with the Dark Trident and other stuffs. What do you think?
Bowser Changes - Bowser now has his regular voice, instead of the realistic sounds he did in previous Smash games. Dash Attack (Whirling Fortress): Bowser retracts into his shell and spins along the ground a short distance. Up Special (Bowser Bomber): Bowser leaps into the air, damaging opponents with his horns before falling downward, damaging opponents he lands on. At the peak of his jump, the attack can be cancelled into any other action. Down Special (Hammer Throw): Bowser takes out a small hammer and lobs it forwards at a slight arc. Neutral Special (Fire Breath): Bowser expels flames from his mouth. If the special button is tapped, Bowser will spit a large fireball that travels with great range and explodes on impact, damaging opponents. If the special button is held, he will shoot a stream of flames that damage opponents multiple times. Both the stream and fireballs can be angled with directional inputs. Use of either variation will make the attack weaker, though it will recharge when not in use. Final Smash (Bowser Party): Bowser roars loudly; anyone caught in the blast is brought to a small cutscene in which they are inside a giant hamster wheel with electric fences located at intervals along the inside of it. Bowser appears, having grown ten times in size, and starts spinning the wheel around, jostling the fighters inside and hitting them with the electric fences. Bowser than lets out one final mighty roar before smashing the wheel apart with his enormous fists, launching the fighters inside. Forward Aerial now multi-hits. Up Throw (Koopa Claw): Bowser scratches upwards with the opposite claw, launching the victim into the air as he does so. Forward Throw (Hurly Gloves): Based off of the Hurly Gloves weapon from Super Mario RPG. Bowser spins around once and launches the victim. Down Smash (Chomp Spin): Based off of the Chomp weapon from Super Mario RPG. Bowser spins around holding a Chomp ball and chain. Up Aerial (Flame Fang): Bowser bites the air above him with flames in his mouth. Back Aerial (Shell Ram): Based on Bowser's attack from Paper Mario: Sticker Star. He retracts into his shell and rams backwards a short distance before coming back out again. Neutral Aerial (Bowser Spin): Bowser retracts into his shell and spins around.
You left Kirby, the majority of his moveset are kicks and punches, wich doesn't make refference to anything in his series. He could use a sword for his side tilt, a parasol for his Up Air, or the Ice ability for the Back Air. And his copy-abilities doesn't work like in his games, because when he inhales someone, he doesn't get his literal ability, he gets an ability that corresponds with the character he inhaled
What drummer said, not to mention that Kirby's backthrow and forward throw are references to a Kirby copy ability as well They could definitely add more Kirby copy abilities to his normals similar to how Megaman's work with the robot masters but it would be hard to pick which ones to use since Kirby has so many abilities
I think I'm okay with most of Kirby's grounded and aerial attacks being basic kicks and punches since many of them are actual moves used by Fighter Kirby, and Kirby typically doesn't have many unique powers by default, that's where his copy abilities come in. Kirby is supposed to be beginner friendly so maybe this would be too much, but I think it'd be cool if Kirby's Copy Ability in Smash worked more like it does in his home series: Instead of literally copying the character he swallows, he instead get one of his actual Copy Abilities from his games and changes a bit more than just his neutral special. Now obviously we can't have it work exactly like it does in his home series and give Kirby a unique moveset for every ability, that would take too much development time and would heavily go against Kirby's beginner friendly design philosophy. Instead I imagine it working something like this: If Kirby swallows a fire projectile or a fighter like Mario or Bowser, he becomes Fire Kirby. This changes his neutral special to fire breath and some of his other moves gain fire properties such as his up special becoming Fire Cutter and his neutral air becoming Fireball Spin. Honestly, even that might be too much for beginner friendly Kirby, so maybe it's best for Kirby to stay as is. However, if there's one thing about Kirby's moveset that I think seriously needs to be changed, it's that they need to make his down tilt Slide Tackle.
Snake is also someone who needs a re-work, he is a Stealth-Icon so why is he making a battle look like It's raining Bob-Omb's in Sudden Death? I think every explosive, with the exception of his C4, should just go away for things that a stealthy character would bring to a fight. Tranquilizer Gun, Stun Grenades, a knife, and stronger grabs and throws when the enemy is grabbed from behind are just a few examples I can think of, someone who actually played all of the Metal Gear games could come up with far more ideas.
As much as Ganonforf's move set is by a design point bad there is a sizable group of people fell in love with his destructive design. I think what should at the very least make an Echo fighter with Ganon's move set or something before completely throw his moves away. As much as people say otherwise Captain Falcon can't replace Ganondorf's old move set by himself.
Ganon's Smash moveset is definitely fun but they could've stuck in on any big slow dude and it would've worked. I'd be fine passing it onto a different character and giving Ganon a proper moveset
@@dreamlanderjoel8162 Ganondorf battles in the Zelda games were never interesting, except for maybe pig Ganon. So I find Smash Ganon to be an upgrade for him.
His down air is similar to galaxy but I don't think it's the same move. Mario down air is a multihit in Smash but a singular hit in Galaxy and there's a lack of similarity in the animation (would've liked them to show the luma popping out like it does in Galaxy or at least some sparkles). You're right on the Mario 64 downsmash though!
Yeah that could definitely be the case. They just rarely make significant changes to the movesets of classic characters so it was probably a short conversation lol
Mario Changes - Side Smash (Hammer): Replacing the original fire burst, Mario now wields his Hammer from the Mario & Luigi series and slams it down forwards. Can actually increase height of ground jump if the jump command is input immediately upon landing on the ground. Down Special (Hammer Attack): Mario takes out a hammer and slams downwards with it on the ground and in front of him at a sideways angle in the air. Up Aerial (F.L.U.D.D. Squirt): Used to be his Down Special. Mario squirts a short spray of water upwards; water contains pushboxes, F.L.U.D.D. has hitboxes. Neutral Special (Firebrand): Mostly just a rename to his signature move from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, since he can still throw fireballs like he did before, but now it's a chargeable move. The fireball becomes bigger and stronger the more it's charged, and Mario will say "Fire!" if he throws it fully charged. Up Special (Luma Spin): Mario performs a Luma Spin from Super Mario Galaxy, which access himself high into the air (about the same height at his super jump from previous games). This recovery however has a larger side hitbox, and has a slight gravitational pull that can bring opponents and objects closer. After the spin, a tiny Luma spins above his head then disappears back under his cap. Side Special (Cappy Toss): Mario tosses his new trusty friend, Cappy, forward like a disc. By simply pressing side B (and letting go right away) Mario simply tosses Cappy forward and he returns quickly. Hold Side B to make Mario toss Cappy forward, but Cappy will stay at his peak distance for a minute while continuing to spin. This can deal chain DMG to opponents, and Mario can leap on Cappy to get an extra bounce as if he hit a spring item. Lastly, if side B is held, then quickly tap the analog stick the other direction, Cappy will return and circle Mario a few times before going back to his hand, which deals great upward launch DMG and can string a combo against opponents. Forward Throw (Thoreau Throw): Based on the Thoreau attack from Super Paper Mario. Mario places the opponent above him and is free to carry them around for a bit before throwing them. Down Aerial (Mario Tornado): While it technically still is Mario Tornado, the move now looks more like a Star Spin from Super Mario Galaxy, down to having the same sound effect and Baby Luma also appearing for a split second above him. Down Taunt: Mario twirls around before facing the screen and doing a 'V' sign with his hand, saying "Here we go!". This is a reference to his Star Get pose from Super Mario 64. Victory Animation 4: A Star appears around Mario, who spins around and poses, making a V-sign with his fingers.
I agree since she uses her harp as a main part of her moveset in warriors but I'm fine were her Smash moveset as is too since she doesn't have much source material anyway
i don't even know why they added dr. mario. if they wanted a mario clone they could've had paper mario or a toad semiclone. hell,they could've had daisy as a peach clone
Mario's moveset sucks and here's how I would fix it: Forward smash: keep current smash Down smash: keep current smash Up smash: Mario should reference more of his punching bricks with his bare hands more. The attack has Mario having a large fist that just goes up which doesn't have good reach but deals more damage Jab: keep current smash Forward tilt: keep current smash (I don't know what to use) Down tilt: keep current smash Up tilt: keep current smash Neutral special: keep current smash Side special: The attack shouldn't have a reference to a powerup in Mario World that's broken. The new attack will be a similar attack as the fireball but Mario would be able to charge it up, and when he fills it all the way he starts to get flame particles around him Down special: I'm moving FLUDD somewhere else. The new down special would be his hammer used in the Mario and Luigi series. He will hold it out similar to Kirby and King Dedede only he get's slower over time instead of taking damage to encourage players to not hold it for so long. He will then spin it around to deal damage against enemies and reflect projectiles Up special: keep current smash but let Mario slow fall using the cape to reference slow falling in Mario World Forward areial: keep current smash Down areial: it should look like DK's forward areial but facing more downward and towards the screen Back areial: keep current smash Up areial: Mario should start with his hands underneath his legs and swing them up then swing them back behind his head Grab: it's a teather grab using cappy like in Odyssey when Mario uses a checkpoint, Cappy will take him there and drop him off where then Mario will hold the enemy Forward throw: keep current smash Down throw: keep current smash Back throw: keep current smash but have the detail that Mario will throw the enemy by their tail if they have one final smash: the new final smash will be a cutscene final smash where Mario will use FLUDD's rocket nozzle to jump onto a high plstform to stay away from the rising lava that will touch everyone else
Personally, for Mario’s side special I would keep it the same, just redo the animation so that the cape is now the RPG hammer. It teaches players reflectors, and it’s actually what it does in the game. For Mario’s down special, I think a ground pound works. If you press b while in the ground pound, you’ll dive (like in Odyssey). And if you do it in on the ground it’s a dive (like in 64) I think Mario’s neutral and up special are great though. I would make his neutral special a bit faster like in the games though.
Right, Sakurai talked about how they wanted the appearance of each zelda character in Smash to represent as many different games in the series as possible. Pretty cool!
Shoulder bash is already his side b but yeah they could have his side b work like it does in PM No that you mention it, as iconic as waft is to Wario's moveset it isn't a reference to any of his games LOL. Never thought about that
The actual reason why bowser is how he is, is because in sakurai mind, bowser is an animalistic vicious monster (not the somewhat goofy egocentric and proud powerhouse he is in the Mario series)
I think donkey Kong is fine pretty much fine maybe a barrel up B or press B in sheild to spawn a throwable barrel not every character needs to be a 1 to 1 creation of the character
There are some characters like Fox or Falcon that it makes more sense for them to just have made up moves but why not try to make a character play as much like their own games as possible? That seems to be the dev teams philosophy in the recent Smash titles when adding new characters
@@PowPowSmash making a character play as close to there game as close as possible makes it harder to be creative with the character and I think the new moves for dk and Mario fit quiet well
@@seabass64 creativity with a character is sometimes what gives it its personality and what distinguish is it from other characters now is that always the case no but I definitely don't think that every character has to be that way where they have to be just like their games everything has to be a reference like there's a lot of characters that I think are fine I think Mario is fine I think donkey Kong is fine but there is some characters that do need changes like Luigi and Sonic but they don't need as big as changes as everyone else claims that they do
Ehhh, I think it's fine to have as his down air instead and have FLUUD as his down b since Mario Cyclone isn't really a reference to anything except kind of his spinjump
2:07 dude that's not OoT Zelda it's A Link to the Past Zelda Also she has been her Twilight Princess version in Brawl and Smash 4, Zelda is one of the better represented ones from the old roster Edit: I laughed so hard at 9:32
Yes her appearance is A Link to the Past but her moveset is still from OoT. I understand the confusion just from that statement though! If you want a longer/more clear explanation I talk more in depth about the Zelda characters in Smash in this video: ua-cam.com/video/KqBrWaNfRxc/v-deo.html
@@PowPowSmash But the vast majority of his moves were changed in Brawl. Even the Smashes he had before Ultimate replaced them with a Sword were different from Captain Falcon's.
Characters like Steve, G&W, and R.O.B definitely have it worse but our standards for how expressive Sonic should be are definitely not met in Smash Bros. anymore :/ they butchered him after Brawl
Yeah but in brawl sonic was a bit more expressive but in latter games he has became less expensive also mr game and watch isn’t expressive because he doesn’t have a face
@@shadoward1051 Sega maybe to blame for Sonic's lack of Expression. Mostly likely because Sonic games are never allowed to be as expressive as Unleashed. At least he's more expressive than Snake.
Dr. Mario actually has a lot of potential to be unique from regular Mario; you just don't see it. I diagnose you with a lack of creativity. Doctor's recommendation: innovate new moves based on stuff doctors do. I'm prescribing an aesthetic change to the Side Smash by putting a defibrillator in Dr. Mario's hand to justify the electric effects. Add in a dosage of stethoscope jabs in the pummel, maybe some moves that strike certain pressure points, and you've got yourself a fresh, decloned Dr. Mario.
If they do cut down the roster it would likely mean getting rid of a lot of redundant characters like Toon Link and Dr. Mario before removing any of the iconic ones
@@PowPowSmash doc is already made. If you honestly cared about smash, you’d understand that Doc is one of the most respectable characters in Ultimate. His kit is threatening, but his Achilles’ tendon is his air speed. He is a slow but threatening force to reckon with. He’s got such Iconic combos at his disposal like Down-throw Tornado and Frame-3 Up-b outta shield, heck, his side-b isn’t even that good, making a lot of his gameplay more offensive. He doesn’t stall or get away with crap like what puff can do- he isn’t aggressive to the point where it’s insufferable like Inkling… his kit is as chivalrous as you can find in Smash Ultimate. He’s more confrontational while standard Mario is more manipulative.
@@PowPowSmash I’ve played paper Mario. Don’t get me wrong- I think it would make for a compelling moveset for a character. My one issue is that I could make the same arguement for game & watch. “They’re both flat. Replace the boring flat one with a new flat one”. It could easily be argued that there is very much distinct about the character. I’m not considering clones as a very compelling argument because I value clones that have more than just a change in the visual department. Doc even got some upgrades when transitioning into ultimate just to bolster his kit and justify his distinction even more. Dair is a super interesting example, and has made doc an absolute shark offstage.
11:12 zelda uses din's fire in the rythym zelda game ofc it was created after meelee but eh its not that bad even tho i would love have a more accurate zelda
Bowsers down B is a reference to his super Mario bros 3 ground pound
Just looked it up and you're right! Thanks for the info, I honestly had no idea
@@PowPowSmash in general though you're still not wrong that's a reference to a very old game and Bowser has done a lot since then
@@PowPowSmash his Fire Breath is also from Mario 64 and Galaxy 2
@@goGothitaLOL well his fire breath can't be from galaxy two if it existed before that game came out.
@@vossboss220 nah down b is fine. Bowser performs a. Ground pound in almost all boss fights
Give Donkey Kong his *c o c o n u t g u n* that *f i r e s & s q u i r t s.*
IF HE SHOOTS YA, IT'S GONNA HURT
This is why I want a new Smash game in a few years than more DLC right now. I want Nintendo to go back and revisit the older characters and reimagine them to give them the treatment the modern characters get.
Yeah having a ton of characters on the roster is great but I don't see them being able to keep this up after Ultimate...but then again I would've thought that was going to be the case after Smash 4 too LOL
It just feels very overdue for some of the game's most iconic characters to have movesets like the newer characters on the roster
Jigglypuff Changes -
Side Special (Wake-Up Slap): Jigglypuff slides forward while punching. The move deals three times as much damage and knockback to opponents that are asleep. The punch also deals heavy shield damage, almost breaking a full one.
Up Special (Fairy Wind): Jigglypuff rolls in mid-air as a pink, mysterious wind starts sending it upwards. The wind lasts for a few short seconds, but it can be controlled by tilting the control stick. Does mild damage.
Pound is changed to Dash Attack.
Sing is changed to Down Special.
Final Smash (Twinkle Tackle): Jigglypuff pulls out a microphone and sings into it, causing stars to bounce around the stage, ricocheting off the surfaces and screen edges. If an opponent is hit by one of the stars, they will become stunned. Jigglypuff will then roll into all of them, dealing heavy damage and knockback.
Victory Animation 4: Jigglypuff deflates and then reinflates.
I think Pikachu needs to add Iron Tail and Eletroweb as part of he's moveset.
Iron Tail should be the side special instead of Skull Bash and works similar to Mii Swordfighter's Airborne Assault.
Eletroweb should be a grab move referencing to Pikachu Libre from Pokken Tournament.
Yeah it's crazy with how iconic Iron Tail is to Pikachu's moveset in the anime that it hasn't been added to his Smash moveset
At the very least add a visual effect to his up air to make it look like Iron Tail
Iron Tail should to be its Up Smash, since it performs it with its tail.
Volt Tackle should to be its Side B (similar to Charizard's Flare Blitz).
And for its new Final Smash...come on! it has two signature Z-Moves, just take one (I would choose 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt).
Iron tackle are literally all moves he uses his tail in
I said the same thing about DK. How come King K Rool and Diddy have better originality than the leader of the bunch?
K Rool and Diddy having movesets that are truer to the characters is definitely a biproduct of DK being added to Smash in the first game
It's just a bummer that the only change that DK has gotten over the course of the series to better represent his game is the dash attack from Donkey Kong Country :/
@@PowPowSmash Hi I'm seth and I'm making my own two fighting games xenomon and lightning the bee
If I'd change anyone it'll definitely be Ganondorf. He's the only character who checks all the boxes of what not to do. He doesn't feel like the character, he's based on someone completely unrelated, his moveset doesn't reflect his design (nothing screams "warlock") and he doesn't feel adjusted to Smash properly.
I get his strong moves are supposed to denote his power, but it comes at the cost of almost everything else, making him one of the worst fighters in the series, across multiple games.
Yeah it really took 4 games just to let him attack with his sword, bringing him in as a clone in Melee was such a mistake
I kinda like to think that, whenever he uses Warlock Punch, he's harnessing the Triforce of Power's... well, power. I know it doesn't make sense since he's a Captain Falcon clone, but just let Ganondorf players have this one.
One thing that I think would make the older characters feel less stale is dlc skins, stages and songs. Rather than focusing only on new character additions, they should keep the main game itself constantly updated and fresh.
They have definitely done a good job of continuing to add new songs and stages for the older characters but I agree about the DLC skins. Getting builder and wedding Mario was super cool and I wish more of the classic fighters had stuff like that
@@PowPowSmash It's crazy that nintendo doesn't seem to plan on working on the continuity of smash with many updates like I would buy costumes for the fighters without a doubt and btw what is your opinion on mii costumes, it's annoying to see them in the smash presentations for me.
Fun Fact: They actually significantly updated Bowser in Smash 4
-They made him much faster than he was in Melee and Brawl (he literally went to slow as hell, to among the top 20 fastest character in the game, he's even faster than Marth and Inkling combined)
-They also changed more than 2 moves, which includes jab, dash attack, n-air, b-air, f-smash and then later in Ultimate d-smash too
-They even not only made him stand up right, but also even gave him (and Jr. and Plant) his own victory theme
They did much more than baby steps (unlike with DK and Ganondorf), and he still doesn't have his voice nor personality
also, remember what Bowser's moveset was like in Melee and Brawl? chances are you don't, shell spins to Bowser were like spin dashes to Sonic
K. Rool may not have his voice, but he does have his personality (his voice is less beast-like than DK and Bowser too), same with Dedede (who Sakurai himself voices) and Ridley.
Finally, one more thing, It took 11 years for his Up-B to be canon for once (unless count that wired shell roll in Galaxy as a shell spin). There's several more moves that were originally made-up in smash that later became canon for once, like Luigi's Green Missile in Mario & Luigi say Paper Jam iirc, Ridley's Space Pirate Rush (hate the name of his side-b) in Other M, Dedede's Jet Hammer in Super Star Ultra, and Ike's side-b in FE Fates (at least the name, the move is canon but not the name until that point).
and yes, Ridley's side-b was made-up before he was even playable, if you remembered that one cutscene in SSE where he was dragging Samus on the wall.
Yeah they did a lot for Bowser and way more than other deserving characters, but I still wish he was more like himself.
Two other things though, I'm not sure if Dedede's Jet Hammer in Ultra was because of Brawl because of there very close release dates and Dedede juat straight up using a completely different hammer from his original unlike Brawl where there's just a jet in the hammer. Also Meta Knight also had his Brawl and Smash 4 final smash, Galaxia Darkness, canonized in Planet Robobot in the mode Meta Knightmare Returns.
thing is, all of that is original stuff instead of stuff bowser does in mario
Ike did the Side B animation in Radiant Dawn
I really commend Sakurai and his team for making such a rich game filled with characters who feel like they jumped right out of their games but that just makes the characters that don't feel like that stand out for criticism. As much as I hate to say it, I feel like a roster cut is necessary for some quality over quantity changes for some of these characters.
Agreed on both things, it says a lot about how good Smash is if one of my complaints is "Mario's moveset is boring". I just don't see how they can continue to top the series if they only keep adding characters without updating the old ones
Give sakurai a break
We don't need a roster cut, the developers need more time to rework certain characters (yes, Im talking to you, Ganondorf)
Honestly I don’t really think anyone (apart from Corrin) would need to be removed. Many characters are greatly designed or badly designed, everyone has some kind of potential to improve or could just be completely revamped. I don’t think Mario’s moveset has to be changed to not be”boring” as being a fighter who is good at platform combos makes sense, due to Mario being the “Jumpman.” (But Mario really needs to smile WAY more often in his moveset) I don’t think every character needs to be hugely changed to be a good design, just look at Captain Falcon! I do believe there are characters who are completely outdated and have designs that feel completely nonsense, (Samus, Little Mac, Olimar) but that’s just my opinion. I do understand why Sakurai wants to keep the characters the same, so people have the same Mains they like to play, even though the Gameplay in this game is always changing each installment. I also, feel like JigglyPuff is supposed to be a Joke Character. And lastly, I feel complicated about how I feel on Dr. Mario, but that’s a Subject for another day. All I can say about him is that he is VERY much of a wasted potential Moveset.
@@josiahthediscontinued9976 the Reason for fate's sloppy story, is because the writers where trying to achieve too much with not enough time. Intelligents Systems had an idea for Fate to have three stories to appeal to everyone, but they realized that they didn't have enough writers. So they hired an outside writer, Shin Kibayashi was that writer. Intelligent Systems wanted Shin to write the outline for each pathway, what happened instead is that Shin wrote 500 pages for each pathway. Intelligent Systems knew this was too long so they cut the story into pieces without the writers permission and the fact the Nintendo demanded Fates come on the Fire Emblem Anniversary only made things worse. Which resulted in this hilariously mess of a story. The good news this that there is a manga based on Fates that is a little better. Its called Fire Emblem If: the Crown of Niberlung.
Pichu Changes -
Neutral Special (Electroweb): Pichu launches forwards a net made of electric energy that entraps and shocks the opponent, causing paralysis.
Side Special (Nuzzle): Pichu leaps forwards and grabs onto an enemy that it meets in its path; it then delivers multiple electric shocks to the target as it nuzzles against them.
Up Special (Thunder Punch): Pichu performs an uppercut, soaring skywards as its fist gets enveloped in electrical energy.
Down Special (Shock Wave): Pichu releases a wave of electricity around itself; the shockwave travels a decent amount of distance around Pichu, moving outwards on both sides. The move carries opponents hit by it with the shock wave and away from Pichu.
Up tilt has faster speed and slightly more range.
New ability from Pichu taken from its Static ability; Pichu has a chance of releasing an electric shock on opponents when attacked.
Recoil damage no longer a factor, however, spamming of electricity-based attacks can cause Pichu to faint, leaving it vulnerable for a few seconds before waking up. These attacks include: All special attacks, forward throw, forward air, up smash, forward smash, down throw, up throw, dash attack. Pummel is not counted.
Victory Animation 4: Pichu excitedly cries "Pichu, Pi!" as it spins around twice on one foot, then jumps up twice while clapping both its feet and releasing small sparks.
That "If I can't have funny Bowser in smash" line actually hit hard. Even sadder when you realize he's from the Paper Mario franchise, a game series that's lost its magic over the last few years. (The writing is still good but it used to be great)
Mhmm, I made multiple Paper Mario videos on the channel before I shifted my focus to Smash and that was one thing I always touched on. The writing is still good but the franchise is still trying to figure out what it wants to be since they refuse to make it a turn based rpg again
@@PowPowSmash I would be fine with having an action adventure Paper Mario game but they really don't want to let go of the RPG aspect for some reason. They say they don't want to make RPG's but then add RPG like gimmicks like turn based battles, badges, etc. It's like the franchise is fighting with itself and it honestly makes me pretty dreadful for the series' future.
@@alexanderadams9058 exaaactly, they have yet to figure out a good way to incentivize battling without having an exp system. By the end of Origami King the only thing I had left to buy with the coins I got from battle were trophies which I didn't care about so I finished the final castle in like an hour because I avoided all of the enemies I didn't have to fight lmfao
@@alexanderadams9058 Bowser in Smash is meant to be faithful to Mario 64.
I just want Bowser’s F-smash to be changed to his punch in Bowser’s Inside Story
Give him any references PLEASE
I kinda like his current F-Smash, so maybe that punch from Bowser’s Inside Story could instead be a new Side-Tilt?
@@amigomorton7654 Fun Fact: Bowsers side B is a reference to Mario Super Star Saga.
Luigi Changes -
Side Smash (Hammer): Similarly to Mario, Luigi now wields his Hammer from Mario & Luigi. Unlike Mario's, however, he swings it forwards, rather than slamming it on the ground.
Side Special (Poltergust Push): Luigi takes out his Poltergust and switches it from Suck to Blow. He then blasts forwards a gust of air.
Higher Jump Height.
Up Special (Balloon World): Replaces Super Jump Punch. Luigi equips his luggage with balloons from Super Mario Odyssey, and can be controlled as he flies up for a few seconds before the balloons dissociate from him. Like Villager's and Isabelle's up specials, opponents can pop the balloons.
Up Smash (Short Jump Punch): Luigi does a little 'super jump punch' that covers very little distance but still retains its ability to afflict critical hits.
Neutral Special (Flashlight): Luigi pulls out his Flashlight and turns it on, dealing damage to those in its light.
Down Aerial (Scuttle Kick): Based off of Luigi's scuttling kick ability seen in many Mario games. Like in those games, this move slows his falling speed as long as he is using the attack. The attack multi-hits several times.
Poltergust tether grab can now be used as a tether recovery.
Dash Attack (Luigi Skid): Luigi skids along the ground with one leg extended to kick in front of him. Based off of his attribute in the Mario games where he has less traction than Mario.
Forward Aerial (Frenzy Punch): Luigi does a quick succession of punches; used to be his dash attack, but now has less hits than before and is used in the air.
Back Aerial (Baton Strike): Based on Luigi's appearances in several Mario games leading a parade at the end of the game. Luigi turns in the air and swings a parade leader baton.
Down Throw (Polterburn): Luigi slams the opponent down and burns them with the Fire element from the first Luigi's Mansion.
Down Special (Thunderhand): Like Mario's Firebrand, Thunderhand originates from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, where it was Luigi's signature move. Luigi charges a thunderball that can electrocute opponents with greater force the longer it's charged. If used normally, it works similarly to the previous Fireball, with an electric effect instead of fire. If fully charged, Luigi will say "Thunder!" just like in that game.
Down Taunt: A pillow appears next to Luigi as he quickly sits down and becomes sleepy, yawning as he emanates a dreamy aura. This is a reference to Mario & Luigi: Dream Team.
Victory Animation 4: Luigi tiptoes with his Poltergust on his back and his flashlight turned on. The flashlight winks out and Luigi cries out in fear, tripping and falling on his butt. He then flicks the flashlight back on and rubs the back of his head while laughing nervously.
Just read through all 3 of your comments, you have some super creative ideas! I especially like Luigi's up b becoming Balloon World from Odyssey :)
The best thing after a day of finals. Thanks.
You're welcome Gnateb! Hope the finals went well :)
Falco Changes -
Neutral Special (Star Sniper): Falco takes out the Star Sniper rifle and fires it forwards. A small red laser light indicates where he is aiming; the weapon can be aimed up and down and fires a long-range, fast laser blast. It must be charged up to increase the range and power.
Side Special (Homing Launcher): Falco fires the Homing Launcher forwards, shooting a missile that homes in on opponents and explodes.
Up Special (Barrel Roll): Falco performs a flying barrel roll spin in the input direction.
Down Special (Absorber): Much like Falco's old down special, he kicks the Absorber out and then has it return to him; instead of reflecting projectiles, it absorbs them; the Absorber itself also damages opponents directly.
Final Smash (Arwing): Falco says, “Personally, I prefer the air!” and then leaps off the top of the screen as an Arwing passes by and he climbs inside. Falco then appears in the foreground in his Arwing and fires laser blasts at the stage. At the end of the Final Smash, a small target reticulated different from the other one appears. Press the special attack button and Falco will fly towards the stage doing a barrel roll and will instantly K.O. anyone he hits, much like a Dragoon.
Down Aerial (Sky Claw): Falco swipes below him with one arm; carries him a small distance into the air.
Down Smash (Wing Buffet): Falco slams both of his arms down on each side; can produce wind around him that pushes opponents back.
Up Smash (Flip Wing): Falco does a backflip, swinging an arm upwards.
Pummel (Peck): Falco pecks the victim.
Up Aerial (Sky Claw): Falco swipes above him with one arm; carries him a small distance into the air.
Up Throw (Bird Throw): Falco tosses the victim upwards and then shoots at them with his sniper rifle.
Down Throw (Double Kick): Falco throws the opponent to the ground and then stomps downwards on them twice while passing over them.
Up Tilt (Wing Sling): Falco swings one arm in an arc above his head.
Back Throw (Missile Shot): Falco throws the opponent backwards and shoots them once with his homing launcher.
I'm kinda dissappointed at the dev's decision of "keep the moveset, but make it do something." like cmon, Ganon deserves better than 'Falcon Puch but slower and stronger', 'Falcon Kick but slower and stronger', 'Falcon Dive but slower and stronger' and even 'Falcon uptilt but slower and stronger'. Imo they should change uptilt and map the old one to neutralb angled down or something, should they keep it at all. (It is a very cool move ngl)
Yeah it's annoying how they made echo fighters a thing but think characters like Doc are different enough to be their own characters
You're definitely right that Ganon's uptilt can stay even if they change the rest of his moveset
Mario's old down-b was a reference to his spinjump from Mario 3 I believe. His dash attack and downtilt also come from Mario 64
The spinjump being his down b is kind of a stretch imo, the animations aren't very similar. I definitely forgot about Mario dash attack in 64 but are you sure about downtilt? Are you sure you don't mean downsmash?
A change I've wanted to see to Mario is changing his side smash to a hammer.
The flame fist thing makes no sense, it's what someone totally unfamiliar with Mario would come up with.
Meanwhile, plenty of games feature charged hammer slams from Mario. (Mostly RPGs, but he does use a hammer in Donkey Kong, too.)
See they're saving the sidesmash using Mario's hammer for when they add Paper Mario to Smash ;))))
I agree though, the only thing I could see the fireball sidesmash being a reference to is the fire hand from Superstar Saga but that game came out after Mario got the attack in Smash
4:26 Mario reflects right as he says reflected
People don't usually appreciate when I try to sink up audio and visual cues 😭♥️
Now I'd like to pretend I have more things to do than to give my take on some of the characters mentioned as well as a few of my own....the hint word being pretend:
Mario: I believe the old Down B Spin Attack might be a reference to the Spin Jump from Super Mario World which is why it was moved to an aerial but that's me reaching. The only other thing I can think of is the spin from Mario Galaxy which is a game that came out like a decade later. So yeah Mario's in need of a spucing up. Have Cappy be more than a glorified cameo. I'm not asking to capture other players I just want to use him as an attack.
Luigi: I think Luigi's a prime example of Sakurai's "alienating players" statement coming into question. If Luigi and Falco get to have their characters tweeked with from game to game, why can't other older characters get some love.
Doc: Look, if they insist on keeping Doc as his own character, the least they could do is make an effort to try and reference what little they can get from Dr. Mario. Have his Smash attacks be him bringing out a viruses akin to Pac-Man or Olimar or have his final Smash be dropping pills instead of a generic reskin of the Mario Finale, an already bland move.
DK: I'm so tired of DK just being "generic gorilla" for his Smash appearances, he's usually not even that angry unless you tamper with his banana horde and he doesn't even use his now well established voice actor. In his moveset, I'm sure there are better things to pull from than a generic headbutt, slamming the ground and ripping off Dixie for an Up B.
Bowser: Bowser suffers from the same problems DK does. He's just a beast and instead of Bowser's well known roars we get Godzilla. As for his moves, his Down B is actually a reference to the Bowser Bomb from Mario 3 but that's it. He doesn't even spit fire correctly. I know Bowser's a hard man to keep track of since he can go from being in a snazzy tux to having the title of Godslayer at the drop of a hat but there has to be a way for Bowser to have references without them feeling outdated by his literal next appearance.
Jigglyfuff: Not my first choice but definitely understandable. It would be cool to have a Fairy move like Disarming Voice as a projectile to replace Rollout.
Kirby: On the topic of pink balls I wanted to bring up Kirby. Most of his normals are just "foot attack", like not even the Fighter ability sometimes, just "foot attack. This guys thing is having so many different abilities but his moves as a whole just feels shallow.
The Links: Just do something different between them instead of slight variations of the same thing I don't think anyone would complain if Tink and Yink got different moves because of Bink still being there.
Ganondorf: It took four games for Ganon to get something that didn't feel like he was ripping off the Captain and it still feels like baby steps. Falcon's moveset isn't even from a game, it's made up. Ganondorf has games in droves to pull from yet we had to wait 4 games to see progress. Just....just let him hover next game. Please? For the fans?
Sonic: Why can't Sonic catch a break in these games. Being added late isn't an excuse anymore for his like 9 ball moves and it hasn't been since Sm4sh. Just give him some Battle moves, switch his Side B to Down B because that's how it should've been, make his new Side B Boost or LSD and we're golden. And give some personality for Chip's sake. His attitude is one of his defining features and it's been stripped away since Brawl and replaced with a glued on smile.
I don't particularly like ragging on Smash considering it's high attention to detail especially with characters since Smash 4 but that doesn't mean the flaws should be ignored entirely. I simply want my favourite characters to be represented properly cause that's what Smash prides itself on. I just want characters to feel and play like themselves.
Wow this was long. Did not expect to ramble this much. Ah well.
Castform you're spitting facts from top to bottom in this comment bud, well said!
Saying "For Chip's sake" when talking about Sonic is amazing and I cannot believe I haven't heard it sooner XD
Always love your insightful comments on my videos!
@@PowPowSmash Oh thank you. I've actually noticed recently from rewatching some of your videos that I can kinda just go on tangents in the comments sometimes XD. I kinda don't like doing it because it's sort of a chore to read but I have a lot of thoughts and just run with them and by the time I realize that it may be a bit wordy already, I think I'm too far in and just get the rest of it down. I also sometimes try to make an easily digestible "side comment" like the one I posted here or the one on the Pyra and Mythra vid so I can make a different shorter point and seperate it from a comment that'll take like 5 minutes to read. I'm glad you like them though. You should probably expect more in the future.
I also put way more thought in the "for Chip's sake". I was just planning on doing Chaos since that's just the regular replacement for "god" but then I thought "wait wasn't Chip like....a god in Unleashed. I don't think anyone's done that yet. I'm gonna do that."
DK's Down-B is canon tho, can't say the same with his other 3 specials besides Up-B, which he took from Dixie KOng
also, remember when Kirby had his Fire dash attack replace with another foot attack in Brawl?
they just now took that back in Ultimate
EDIT: they also changed his side-tilt and Side-B to be from Twilight Princess in Brawl and also his up-smash and down-tilt before, as well as the animation of his down-smash and jab
@@goGothitaLOL Actually Kirby's Brawl and Sm4sh Dash Attack is the Break Spin from the Yo-Yo ability in Super Star. No idea why they changed a fireball to a headspin but hey. Flubbed the DK one though, my bad
Bowser neutral special flamebreath is Mario 64 reference.
The answer here is custom specials. Full Palutena style custom specials. Then you get the best of both worlds. New moves and old moves to choose at your leisure.
Pikachu Changes -
Side Special (Iron Tail): Pikachu encases its tail in a durable iron armor, and then leaps forwards while tumbling through the air, striking an opponent with its iron tail when it comes into contact with them.
Up Special (Agility): Pikachu becomes lightweight and leaps high into the air. During the leap, Pikachu can damage opponents. For the next thirty seconds after using the move, Pikachu will have increased jump height, but decreased weight.
Final Smash (Catastropika): Pikachu rises into the air and begins charging up electricity. After awhile, it will surround itself in a sphere of electrciity that explodes, dealing massive damage and knockback to opponents in the blast radius.
Victory Animation 4: Pikachu darts from side to side while launching two Electro Balls, spins forward while swinging its tail twice, then wraps it up with an uppercut before landing with a smirk. This is similar to one of its victory poses from Pokken Tournament.
Okay, so this idea’s going to seem like a pipe dream, but hear me out. What if the Smash devs released an additional DLC pack after Fighters Pack 11 is revealed that makes small updates to older characters’ move sets? And to keep it from “alienating older players,” we’d still have the option to use the original move sets.
It’d work similarly to how you switch between Pyra and Mythra on the character select screen. Basically, you’d select your character then press Y to choose the new move set. (This is also how it’s done for echo fighters when you set their character select icons to stacked instead of having them separate.)
I know it may never actually happen, but just imagine how much it’d fix.
Bro this channels doing well nice I’m happy for you!
Thank you so much George! It's been slowly but surely growing 😁 the support has been amazing!
I think the hardest problem to fixing the moveset is, how will it look in motion without it backfiring on the core mentality of Smash? Like you want the character to be their personality, but you don’t want it to come at the cost of limited movement.
If Mario was to get an update, Odyssey would be the prime choice for moves inspiration due to Rosalina having the Galaxy moveset. But I would love to see just a bit more personality in the characters. Not a lot, just a bit to add flare.
Agreed! The dev team has shown an ability to make the characters feel like they were pulled out of their own games (except banjo, he's way too slow for a platformer character)
Mario's movement in Odyssey feels so good that I would love to be able to have him play more like that in Smash
@@PowPowSmash Right! Animations go along way to for the characters to feel like themselves and in a fighting game like Smash, I feel it has a right to be as much as it wants.
So I hope an animation update comes after all DLC so you can really see these characters shine.
also, replace Wario's usually useless current down-smash with the Earthshake Punch from Wario Land: Shake It, and maybe change his side-smash to be the faster kick from Wario Land too.
and no, it won't bury like it does in Project M. (we already have Game & Watch's down-smash for that)
Wario's moveset is solid but you're right that he could definitely have more references in his moveset if they really wanted to
replacing puff's pound would be the death of the character, it's so good, it's just the most free combo starter
Mario’s down b is the Twirl mechanic from Mario world
Ivysaur (New) -
Now by itself.
Down Special (Synthesis / Solar Beam): Ivysaur will begin taking in sunlight, healing its health by 2% every two seconds. It can hold this state by holding the special button, and it can be cancelled into any action. If it replenishes 40% damage with the move, it can use Solar Beam, indicated by its bulb glowing white. When used, Ivysaur stands on its front legs to aim its bulb forward before firing a beam of solar energy, dealing heavy damage and knockback. Once this is done, it must replenish more damage with Synthesis to use Solar Beam again.
Side Smash (Sludge): Ivysaur spews a blast of poison from its bulb forward.
Down Aerial (Gunk Shot): Ivysaur turns upside down and spews a blast of sludge from its bulb.
Forward Throw (Energy Ball): Ivysaur blasts the opponent away with a green energy orb.
Back Throw (Power Whip): Ivysaur's vine grows bigger as it slams the opponent behind it.
Up Throw (Stun Spore): Ivysaur heaves the opponent above itself as it spews spores from its bulb onto them. This causes the opponent to grow a flower on their head.
Down Throw (Mega Drain): Ivysaur slams the opponent into the ground, them absorbs their health with its vines before stomping on them.
Final Smash (Bloom Doom): Ivysaur swings a long vine forward. If it hits an opponent, they are locked in a cinematic where they are in the middle of a meadow. Ivysaur then appears with its evolutions, Bulbasaur and Venusaur. Together, all 3 of them become surrounded in a light green aura, causing the meadow to be covered in flowers. The Z-Power surrounding the evolutions then rapidly expands, creating a giant explosion that damages opponents heavily and sends them back to the stage, launching them.
Victory Animation 3: Ivysaur jumps and releases some spores from its bulb before landing on its belly.
Victory Animation 4: Ivysaur releases a storm of leaves before standing in a battle-ready pose.
Round Loss: Ivysaur sits on its bottom as it claps for the winner.
On-Screen Appearance: Ivysaur emerges from a Poké Ball and whips a vine.
Boxing Ring Alias: Dinosaur Plant.
Bowser main here with some potential moveset changes:
F-Tilt just doesn’t make sense. As good a move as it is, we gotta change it. Bowser quickly roars forwards while breathing fire, giving him a solution for swordies. However it is still a bit punishable.
U-Tilt is gonna be what the U-Smash currently is. A shell thrust. It’s faster though, of course.
His Dash Attack is gonna be a headbutt, like his old F-Smash.
F-Smash NEEDS to be the punch from Bowser’s Inside Story. Look at that move and tell me it doesn’t scream F-Smash.
U-Smash is another fire move. He roars upwards while breathing fire, making five small explosions from back to front. So it’s like Samus’ U-Smash, but also a reference to his NSMBW boss fight.
D-Smash is the Odyssey tail spin. Functionally it’s a lot like the current one, hitting in front, then behind. But of course his tail is on fire.
B-Air is his old one, a shell thrust with armor and surprising vertical coverage.
Bowser probably shouldn’t have a projectile since his design is based around being exploitable between strong attacks, just like in his games. But Fire Breath does still need a revamp.
Make it a chargeable move
Uncharged is a weak burst. It’s base knockback is okay for getting opponents away, but it won’t be killing until far past 300%.
Semi-Charged functions like his current version, lasting a set one second.
Fully-Charged is a massive flame that lasts three seconds, and is only slightly smaller than GIGA Bowser’s.
But what’s the catch? Well, just like in the RPG series, timing is everything. If you’re too slow, he’ll just revert back to the uncharged version. Plus, he’s super vulnerable while charging, which fits better with his playstyle.
Side Special is super boring. End of story. Make him do one of the most iconic things that Koopas do. SPIN IN HIS SHELL! It would be like Squirtle’s, but slower, and with a bit of armor.
His other specials and his FS are fine.
Finally, his alts. Keep Brown, Red, Green, and Gray, then add ones for Midbus, Dark Bowser, and his wedding outfit from Odyssey.
He already spins in his shell for his Up-B
Tho it took 11 years after Melee for that to be canonized for once
I like a lot of these changes! It would be really cool if they gave him a Rookie alt too but I doubt that would ever happen lol
@ The Jigglypuff/Clefairy Company
True, but it’s more of a defensive option.
I saw a channel named "Baconator2558" who made a bowser mod for rivals of aether that represents the character FAR better than smash bros bowser
Roy is pure rushdown so giving him a projectile which presumably would work something like Palutena’s side b would be kind of counterproductive. It probably wouldn’t be something like Frizz etc just due to differentiation so idk
There's a way to give rushdown characters projectiles like fox laser so it could definitely be done, but even if the fire moves aren't projectiles at least take the time to give him different specials is all I would want. Even Pyra and Mythra have different specials and they're one character lol
yeah, like Roy is literally the opposite of Marth
Marth wants to space his sword on the tipper, whiling Roy literally wants to go right up your face in close combat
@@PowPowSmash I thought of Laser but I guess the main compromise there is that it doesn’t cause flinching meaning it can’t ever score stocks etc. It arguably encourages you to hit more considering it more or less then encourages you to go and hit with one of his strong ground attacks
@@goGothitaLOL yeah I can agree to some degree. As said before the only reason a projectile wouldn’t work if if it was used to zone. If it was implemented in a way where it was more like Zero Suit’s B move where it lacks a lot of range and doesn’t really KO but stuns, it could therefore allow follow ups and complement someone like Roy really well considering that he can struggle with characters who can just block him out of their space.
I'd say the best way to update a moveset is to base it off a direction instead of making them nothing more than a mishmash of references.
Make the character feel like the character and game, adjust it to Smash (1-1 recreations rarely work) and then add some references.
Mario's specials for example should be based on some of newer games such as Odyssey but would stay physical for most of his moves since Mario's appeal comes from his timelessness.
Sakurai typical combines references from the games with the feeling of playing like the character. Good examples are any of the fighting game reps, Megaman, and the Belmonts
Yoooo! You finally made it to 3K subs!
Yeeeeeeeeeee, it took a little while but we got over the hump! Slwoly but surely moving up in the world :)
@@PowPowSmash Next stop, 5k!!! Good luck btw!
The longer Smash goes on, the more I realize the strengths and weaknesses of making a fighting game composed entirely of guest fighters.
Having a roster of guest characters means you get to have fun drawing from the source material of these various games. Characters like the Star Fox characters and Captain Falcon even show how creative the Smash team can get with characters that don't offer a lot of material from their home games for a fighting moveset. With how big Smash is now, getting in as a fighter even helps less popular franchises relevant and not forgotten, calling back again to the Star Fox characters and Captain Falcon.
However, many of these franchises evolve independent of Smash, leading to Smash interpretations of some of these characters to become outdated. Even worse, Smash interpretations of characters sometimes gives a bad impression of their franchise; kinda sucks that Wario gets labeled as "that gross guy who just farts."
Smash's handling of clone characters is also pretty wonky. Fighting games with original characters can usually get away with the occasional clone since they're built from the ground up as clones. However, since Smash can only use characters with pre-established material, characters like Dark Pit and Dark Samus lose a lot of character as they have to fit within the mold of their original fighter, even though they have their own stuff to offer. Having Young Link and Toon Link as spin-offs of Link's moveset is great on paper until you realize they barely bring anything outside of Link's basic toolkit.
In essence, as cool as it is that Everyone is Here, I'm actually looking forward to a Smash sequel that cuts the fat from the roster to take a look at some veterans that could use an update.
Personally I think kirby could use a new moveset, he isn't terrible but they could include a lot more copy abilities in his moveset. Also inhale could really use a buff to make it more capable of dealing with projectiles, the ability to swallow items you inhale hurts it because it takes so long to do it and barely heals you, they shouldn't make the endlag too short but at least make it scale based on what you eat and take less time to heal. Also he should be able to spit out stuff like mario's fireball, but the scaling will make it so its not more powerful than it has any right to. No buffs to inhale outside of that because we wouldn't want succ and cucc to become broken. In smash the only abilities in kirby's moveset are cutter, rock, fighter, and fire/burning all of which come from superstar or kirby's adventure. There's barely any representation for abilities after that.
Yeah I was on the fence about including Kirby in this list, but I couldn't figure out how they would be able to include more of his copy abilities since they kinda just picked a couple of them for his specials. Maybe do something like megaman where his normals are each a different copy ability too?
@@PowPowSmash That's my main thought on how that would work, for example nair could either be a multhit aerial spin with wheel or if they really wanted they could keep it the same but have him use wheel instead of just spinning.
Ganondorf (Changes) -
The design of both Ganondorf and Beast Ganon come from Hyrule Warriors.
Ganondorf now uses the Trident of Demise from Hyrule Warriors Legends instead of his sword from the SpaceWorld 2000 GameCube Tech Demo.
Ganondorf now levitates while walking and running.
Ganondorf has the ability to float like in Ocarina of Time, but only for about a second.
Jab: Ganondorf uses the Triforce of Power from his back fist to emit dark magic from his back hand that hits multiple times before launching them forward. It sort of works like Mewtwo's Rapid Jab. Based off of the Darkness Wave from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
Dash Attack: Ganondorf's old Side Special will now be his new Dash Attack (animation wise), except it's just a strong attack rather than a command grab. Inspired by a scene from Twilight Princess.
Side Tilt: Ganondorf performs an outward slash with his Trident. Based off of an attack he does in The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds for his boss fight. Can be angled up or down, and is great for spacing.
Up Tilt: Ganondorf uses the Triforce of Power to create a rising geyser of darkness in front of him, hitting multiple times and sending opponents upwards! The attack is really strong, but it's quite laggy. (It's like his Up Tilt from Project +)
Down Tilt: Ganondorf punches the ground with dark energy, creating a shockwave. Has a chance to trip opponents.
Side Smash: Ganondorf uses his Trident, charges it with dark energy, and does a hefty stab in front of him. Resembles one of his attacks from The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds boss fight.
Up Smash (Dark Skyward Strike): Ganondorf raises his trident into the air and ignites it in electricity, with light orbs striking onto the ground where he is standing. Based off of the Dark Skyward Strike attack from The Legend of Zelda: Four Swords Adventure. Has a powerful tipper hitbox.
Down Smash (Quake Medallion): Ganondorf spins his trident above him, then thrusts his trident down into the ground with full force, creating a series of electrical shockwaves beside him. Inspired by the Quake Medallion used by Link from The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past.
Neutral Aerial: Ganondorf telekinetically spins his Trident around himself, hitting multiple times. Almost like Byleth's Neutral Aerial.
Forward Aerial (Dark Lightning Strike): Ganondorf raises his hands and unleash a bolt of dark lightning forward! Inspired by the Dark Lightning Strike attack that Agahnim, his alter ego, performed in The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. Has nearly the same range as Sephiroth's Forward Aerial. Can be angled up or down at a rough 30 degree angle, just like the Belmont's Forward Aerial.
Back Aerial (Dark Lightning Strike): Ganondorf raises his hands behind him and unleash a bolt of dark lightning behind him! Inspired by the Dark Lightning Strike attack that Agahnim, his alter ego, performed in The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. Has nearly the same range as Sephiroth's Forward Aerial. Can be angled up or down at a rough 30 degree angle, just like the Belmont's Back Aerial.
Up Aerial: Ganondorf swipes his hand up and around, creating a portal above him that hits multiple times before launching them upwards. It's a little similar to Palutena's Up Aerial in a way. It's large and powerful, but has slow startup and is extremely laggy.
Down Aerial (Dark Impact): Ganondorf floats a bit, then falls and punches his fists onto the ground, creating a shockwave on the ground as he lands. Based off of the sequence in his boss fight, dubbed the "Dark Impact" from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time! Can spike opponents as he is falling down until the move ends.
Getup Attack (Facing Up): Ganondorf swings his trident around himself.
Getup Attack (Facing Down): Ganondorf swings his trident around himself.
Getup Attack (Trip): Ganondorf swings his trident around himself.
Getup Attack (Ledge): Ganondorf gets up and stabs forward with his trident.
Grab: Reaches out with his left hand and telekinetically grabs the foe using dark magic, just like Sephiroth's Grab.
Pummel: Squeezes the opponent as corrupted Lifestream radiates from his hand. It's a rather slow Pummel.
Forward Throw (Blazing Bats): Ganondorf throws the enemy away, then uses his trident to magically summon 6 Fire Bats toward them. Inspired by an attack he can do in The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. It's similar to Mewtwo's Forward Throw.
Back Throw: Ganondorf teleports the opponent behind him, then crosses his arms to send them away and behind himself. It's similar to Sephiroth's Back Throw, but it's actually a kill Throw.
Up Throw: Ganondorf telekinetically lifts the opponent up, then slams them onto the ground, bouncing them straight upwards. A very strong kill Throw.
Down Throw (Flame Choke): Ganondorf grabs the opponent's face and blasts them with a pulse of dark magic that drops them onto the ground. It functions the same as Ganondorf's old Side Special, which can lead to followups.
Neutral Special (Dead Man's Volley): Ganondorf's new Neutral Special will be the Dead Man's Volley from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time! By pressing B, Ganondorf will raise his hands up to charge up a Light Energy Orb. Letting go of B to fire this slow-moving projectile that stuns the enemies when hit before being launched slightly. However, holding B can be charged into different stages (5 stages). In each stage he goes in is how many Light Energy Orbs he will fire out, each dealing 7% damage, with the 2nd stage having him shoot out 2 orbs, dealing 14% total, and the 3rd stage fires 3 orbs, dealing 21% damage total, and vice versa. With each stage, the projectile(s) moves faster, and will still stun the opponent for a short bit before being launched! The move deals massive damage if all the hits connect (dealing 35% damage if all 5 orbs connect in the 5th stage), but it takes a long time to get to full charge, so you'll be left wide open. The Light Orbs can also be hit back by enemies, and you can hit them back as well (with his Side Special), just like in Ocarina of Time.
Side Special (Cape): Ganondorf's new Side Special will have him fling his cape in front of him, allowing him to reflect projectiles, though it is one of the weaker reflectors in the game. This is a reference to how he can reflect the light orbs back at Link with his cape in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, which he can also do with his Neutral Special in this game. It works just like Mario's current Side Special, the Cape. It will even have the turn-around effect when hit, reversing the opponent's controls for a bit.
Up Special (Trident Warp): Ganondorf's new Up Special will be the Trident Warp from The Legend of Zelda: A Link To The Past. Ganondorf throws his spinning Trident in which ever direction you choose (like Ness's PK thunder, but slower) for about a second. After that, wherever the spinning Trident lands, then that's where Ganondorf will teleport to, then reappear afterwards. It's max distance is okay at best. But if you press the B button again the moment you re-appear, then Ganondorf will grab his Trident again as he re-appears, and deliver a poweful slash with it, but you will lose ALL of your momentum in the process.
Down Special (Darkness Wave): Ganondorf's new Down Special will be the Darkness Wave from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. This move acts as a command grab, where Ganondorf uses the Triforce of Power to suck the opponent's energy, dealing damage to them, while healing yourself in the process, then launching away with a strong blow for the final hit. It's kind of like Robin's Nosferatu, except the final hit launches the opponent away. The move itself shares an identical animation to his Jab, which is a good way to fake out your opponent into thinking that you used his jab, committing them to shield and using this command grab.
Just give Ganondorf Dead Man's Volley and everything he got in Project M (with some tweaks) and call it a day (he can still have his current sword smash attacks):
-Dead Man's Volley can replace Warlock Punch. It can also reflect with his cape if A) a projectile is coming or B) you tap the B button instead. It can also be reflect by certain moves that are stronger enough to reflect it, not just reflectors themselves.
-Float would also merge with Dark Dive, you would get it if you hold Up-B. You wouldn't float cancel with it like you can with Peach tho,
and maybe change his up-air to be idk, a fucking backward version Ike's f-air.
-And another and it may be crazy, but change the animation (and thus the name) of his down-b to be M. Bison's Psychic Crusher instead Capt. Falcon's Falcon Kick, its more fitting. and if you use it in mid-air, you would get the punch from OoT too.
-Also, change his animations to look more boss-like (like Sephiroth's) and you're good to go.
the new specials (Dead Man's Volley, the cape reflect, and float) alone would be big game-changers, just by themselves.
EDIT: you can also just watch this video ua-cam.com/video/y-6KceTRkfg/v-deo.html, sure it doesn't have Dead Man's Volley, nor his current smash attacks, but it does have nearly everything else i suggested
Agreed on all this, it would be so easy to make Ganondorf what he should be but they just keep making baby steps
Puff player here
Pound is essential to her combo game.
Rollout on the otherhand can go cause its usually useless and among contender for worst neutral-b (not named the punchies). You can replace that with Dazzling Gleam or something all you want.
Character movesets can always be changed to work with the changes in their kit too! But yes Rollout NEEDS to go
Wake up from your nap babe, new PowPow video
Sorry I haven't been able to upload as often now that I'm working, but I'm trying to at least keep uploading once a month!
The thing about Mario is that he is the SHOTO of the smash series, he has a fireball, a move to get around projectiles and a dragon uppercut. Down special is more a wild card but so is RYU
I can't believe you didn't spend more time asking for Ganondorf's changes, he is DEFINITELY the character more ridiculously in need of a accurate moveset...
Also I maybe would add Little Mac haha
As I said in the video I made another video recently called "The Legend of Zelda Deserves Better in Smash Bros" where I go into way more detail about the changes I would want in Ganondorfs moveset so if you want to hear more you can check that out :)
@@PowPowSmash oh shit you're right haha I did see that video xD sowy :P
@@pxnchx93 no worries! That's why I tried to lead with the preface that I go into more detail in that video but based on the comments a lot of people missed that part haha
@@pxnchx93 Ganondorf battles in the Zelda games were never interesting, except for maybe pig Ganon. So I find Smash Ganon to be an upgrade for him.
@@orangeslash1667 Except for the fact that he is almost unanimously considered the worst character in the game...
(still very fun to play as tho)
8:38 - Thank You.
I kinda understand the alienate thing with moves but honestly the worse contender for ancient no longer relevant move set is Sonic and Kirby. Both coincidently based on their Adventure games. But seriously why don't people mention that Kirby's move set is based of of his second mainline game it's somehow older than what they did with Mario and Samus.
I thought about including Kirby but wasn't sure how to go about updating his moveset since he already uses multiple of his copy abilities that are still around (even some of his throws are references to the throw copy ability). The only thing that I can think of would be to do something similar to megaman where each normal attack is also a copy ability
Actually, most of Mario’s regular movies are based something iconic. Not only his jab, but also his dash attack, down smash/down tilt are from 64, and his Cape is OP. The only change that I thought would’ve been cool would’ve been if his grab was Cappy. You’d capture your opponent, and punch yourself in the face until hopping out and yeeting them into the great beyond.
Everyone keeps mentioning downtilt from 64 so apparently I'm oblivious and have never seen it in my life in that game lol
With the amount of command grabs in smash now I think having cappy as a side b would fit right in
@@PowPowSmash That would be interesting; maybe It would be the rainbow spin thing to reflect as well as jumping of of him.
@@PowPowSmash as someone whose favorite game is mario 64 i can confirm that down tilt ISN'T from that game, since the only crouched attack mario does is the breakdance, which is a down smash
The skit with DK's moveset was hilarious.
Thanks :) it's one of my favorite cutaways that I've done so far lol
Who doesn’t love tripping! It makes for an engaging experience that’s parallel to real life! Great video as always brother, it’s nice to see smash content that’s refreshing and engaging the whole way through, excited to see what you come up with next!
They tried to bring back the magic of tripping with the trip sapling custom move in smash 4 too! Thanks Javi
Dark Samus could've at least gotten the few moves she used as an assist trophy back in Sm4sh.
Honestly "Echo Fighter" sounds like a dumb excuse to get people to stop calling them "clones" when they literally have little to no noteworthy differences.
Isabelle gets a pass from me,because at least she has some variations in her moveset that don't bother me at all.
They 100% came up with the term echo fighter in order to try to minimize the clone hate lol. I really wish Dark Samus got a proper moveset
Idk why Ken is considered an echo fighter when he has as many original moves in his moveset as Isabelle 💀
quick question in future smash (if happening) you think Mario's final smash and sonic's moveset?
Are you asking if I think they will change Mario's Final Smash and Sonic's moveset?
They've had three games to change Mario's Final Smash when they've shown that they're willing to change classic character's Final Smash's (Yoshi, Luigi, DK, etc.) so I think that if it was going to happen that would've happened in Ultimate
Sonic's moveset has received small tweeks like his dash attack and downsmash so if they trim the roster a lot for Smash 6 I think that they'll update his moveset more
oh k makes sense to me thank
@@joseiahmarshall3337 no problem!
Judging by Nintendo's recent behavior they'll likely release it as Ultimate Deluxe to maintain the massive roster with minor tweaks. Probably the biggest thing would maybe be bringing back Custom Moves but only doing one extra instead of 3 and the return of fan favorite modes and cut stages.
8:55 hell yeah Paper Mario is the best!
Paper Mario the Thousand Year Door is my favorite game!
The game mechanic nintendo forgot to get rid of was Fox
Such a based comment
For jigglypuff you have to think more of the character as a parody of the game mechanics or the first joke character in the series and
it being a balloon with pound helping as a movement tool in the air cause you can angle it or down, maybe making the move maybe deal more damage to a sleeping opponent would be a good change for more synergy in the moveset
but yeah rollout could be changed to a fairy move.
It's also funny how the final smash retroactively is now a dynamax reference.
I thought Mario’s old down b is based on the spin jump from Super Mario World
You Know What Bothers Me About DK's Moveset,His Forward Aerial IS FROM Donkey Kong 64!
They Included This Exact Move From That Game But Did Not Include His Coconut Gun!
WHAT I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE. How is that the one move they took from DK64 lol
@@PowPowSmash Exactly! It Took Me Years To Realize This Too 😂
@@tiburondrogado7612 Fun Fact: DK's B Side is a reference to Super duper Simian Slam from DK 64.
Good thing rivals if aether workshops exists, seriously it has some of the best designed sonics, marios,pit,dark pit, and alot of characters it honestly ridiculous.
Yeah I really need to get around to trying out Rivals Paper Mario, he looks super fun!
@@PowPowSmash ikr, the quality is honestly ridiculous.
9:35 O THANK THE GODS I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS IDEA
Custom moves are amazing
They were fine for the most part but moves like windkong and trip sapling ruined their chances of continuing to be used
Bowser did fire breathed like that in Mario 64 and Galaxy 2
Oh really? From what I saw in 64 Bowser just shoots a fireball projectile but I could've missed it. I do see him floating around and shooting fire more like how he does in Smash in Galaxy 2 though you're right!
I have some ideas for Bowser and Ganondorf, here's what i'll change for Bowser:
Make him slower, not AS slow as in Melee and Brawl, but still, top 20 fastest characters? The heck? Bowser ain't that fast lol, though he isn't mega slow like in melee and brawl neither.
Next, each time he lands on a platform or stage, he creates 2 shockwaves that stop at the egde of the platform/stage. And by every time he lands, I mean EVERY SINGLE time he lands lol. And if he does his down-B, it'll make 6 shockwaves. However his down air won't make any shockwaves, same for his up-B. And his up-B would be something more like King Dedede's, where he jumps high in the air, as Bowser can jump very high in Super Mario 3D land for example. Also I'm thinking of replacing tough guy with "tough shell", basically, Bowser's shell is completely invincible. That means you cant at all attack his back, because it wont hurt him in the slightest. It also means whirling fortress is invincible, same for down air. Also his back air isn't gonna be a kick, because really? When has Bowser EVER kicked his opponents outside of that one time in the mario movie? I say it's gonna be the back air from brawl, where he hits them with his shell, but this time the back air while also launch a spike from the shell, like in Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven stars. And he will breath fireballs if you press B, but will do the fire breath from smash if you hold B. The fireballs will blow up when they hit the opponent. Bowser's jab will be 2 slashes with his claws, and one bite that will launch the opponent. The claws don't do any knockback,only the bite does. His dash attack would be a shoulder bash like Wario, Ganondorf and Samus. He does a shoulder bash in Super Princess Peach. His up smash would be a attack he does in new super Mario bros.U, where if you fly above him in Jr's clown car, he can set his hands on fire and will try slapping you. His up smash is gonna be exactly that,he sets his hands on fire and slaps up in the air. His down smash will be a shell spin, and its gonna be invincible. His forward smash will be his punch from Bowser's inside story, oh, and if it's fully charged it will do 45 damage and can kill at 0%. Lol.
Now his neutral air ..... Ok seriously what the hell is that neutral air lol. It's VERY non-Bowser-ish. And also weird. Its gonna be another shell spin, like in brawl, and again, it's invincible.
Oh and I imagined of giving Bowser a counter. Basically, if he does his Down B in the air, it'll do the Bowser Bomb, but if he does it while on the ground,it'll make the shield from Mario Odyssey, and it'll be a counter, if the opponent hits the shield, Bowser's tail will be on fire and he'll swipe it at them knocking them away and making a fire wave that will go through the stage. Like in Mario odyssey. And for his final smash, he becomes Giga Bowser and you can control HIM, not just his punch.
And for Ganondorf:
First of all, make him MUCH, MUUUCH faster. He deserves being top 20 fastest characters moreso than Bowser lol, Ganondorf is always shown as being very fast and agile.
Keep all his smash attacks, I think they're good enough. And the Warlock punch, while it doesn't come from any games... It's badass and it does fit Ganondorf. Same for the flame choke.
Everything else goes though.
First of all, he can float like Peach and Daisy. Second of all, his forward tilt is gonna be the magic electric balls from Ocarina of time. For his neutral air, he'll pull out his two sabers from Wind Waker and spin. For his up tilt... He'll just punch the air I guess, I just want to get rid of his weird leg thing, it's really lame. if he's in the air, for his down B he'll fall back on the ground slamming it with his fists like in Ocarina of Time, it'll make 2 shockwaves, however his fists will be stuck in the ground for 2 seconds. (If I remember that also happened in Ocarina of Time), but if he's on the ground, his down B will be a counter with either his katana from Tears of the Kingdom or the sword of sages from Twilight princess, whichever you prefer. For his recovery, he'll fly up above the stage and will stay flying at that same altitude for like 10 seconds, you can only control if he goes left and right, however by pressing B while he's flying you can shoot down the electric balls at your opponents, and you can just spam it while in the air for 10 seconds. You'll stop flying if you get hit even once though. For his final smash, he's gonna turn into the Mandrag Ganon from Hyrule Warriors, and you can CONTROL him like Giga Bowser instead of just doing 1 attack. He can attack with the Dark Trident and other stuffs.
What do you think?
Paper Mario may not be in the game, but at least we have a character made of paper! (Get it, because Mr game and watch?)
Bowser Changes -
Bowser now has his regular voice, instead of the realistic sounds he did in previous Smash games.
Dash Attack (Whirling Fortress): Bowser retracts into his shell and spins along the ground a short distance.
Up Special (Bowser Bomber): Bowser leaps into the air, damaging opponents with his horns before falling downward, damaging opponents he lands on. At the peak of his jump, the attack can be cancelled into any other action.
Down Special (Hammer Throw): Bowser takes out a small hammer and lobs it forwards at a slight arc.
Neutral Special (Fire Breath): Bowser expels flames from his mouth. If the special button is tapped, Bowser will spit a large fireball that travels with great range and explodes on impact, damaging opponents. If the special button is held, he will shoot a stream of flames that damage opponents multiple times. Both the stream and fireballs can be angled with directional inputs. Use of either variation will make the attack weaker, though it will recharge when not in use.
Final Smash (Bowser Party): Bowser roars loudly; anyone caught in the blast is brought to a small cutscene in which they are inside a giant hamster wheel with electric fences located at intervals along the inside of it. Bowser appears, having grown ten times in size, and starts spinning the wheel around, jostling the fighters inside and hitting them with the electric fences. Bowser than lets out one final mighty roar before smashing the wheel apart with his enormous fists, launching the fighters inside.
Forward Aerial now multi-hits.
Up Throw (Koopa Claw): Bowser scratches upwards with the opposite claw, launching the victim into the air as he does so.
Forward Throw (Hurly Gloves): Based off of the Hurly Gloves weapon from Super Mario RPG. Bowser spins around once and launches the victim.
Down Smash (Chomp Spin): Based off of the Chomp weapon from Super Mario RPG. Bowser spins around holding a Chomp ball and chain.
Up Aerial (Flame Fang): Bowser bites the air above him with flames in his mouth.
Back Aerial (Shell Ram): Based on Bowser's attack from Paper Mario: Sticker Star. He retracts into his shell and rams backwards a short distance before coming back out again.
Neutral Aerial (Bowser Spin): Bowser retracts into his shell and spins around.
smash 4 rage is basically every character becoming lucario
Yuppppp, but Lucario basically got double aura thanks to rage 😂
@@PowPowSmash exactly
Yes make Fire Emblem Deserves Better that would be great
You're the first comment I've seen that actually approves of this idea LOL
You left Kirby,
the majority of his moveset are kicks and punches, wich doesn't make refference to anything in his series. He could use a sword for his side tilt, a parasol for his Up Air, or the Ice ability for the Back Air.
And his copy-abilities doesn't work like in his games, because when he inhales someone, he doesn't get his literal ability, he gets an ability that corresponds with the character he inhaled
Actually, the punches and kicks are most likely references to Fighter Kirby. But still, Kirby has A LOT of abilities to pick from.
What drummer said, not to mention that Kirby's backthrow and forward throw are references to a Kirby copy ability as well
They could definitely add more Kirby copy abilities to his normals similar to how Megaman's work with the robot masters but it would be hard to pick which ones to use since Kirby has so many abilities
@@PowPowSmash maybe pick the most iconic and representative ones, sword, beam, water, bomb, ice and plasma for example
@@seabass64 specially the sword, it's very strange to see how the ninja ability is represented but not the sword
I think I'm okay with most of Kirby's grounded and aerial attacks being basic kicks and punches since many of them are actual moves used by Fighter Kirby, and Kirby typically doesn't have many unique powers by default, that's where his copy abilities come in.
Kirby is supposed to be beginner friendly so maybe this would be too much, but I think it'd be cool if Kirby's Copy Ability in Smash worked more like it does in his home series: Instead of literally copying the character he swallows, he instead get one of his actual Copy Abilities from his games and changes a bit more than just his neutral special. Now obviously we can't have it work exactly like it does in his home series and give Kirby a unique moveset for every ability, that would take too much development time and would heavily go against Kirby's beginner friendly design philosophy. Instead I imagine it working something like this: If Kirby swallows a fire projectile or a fighter like Mario or Bowser, he becomes Fire Kirby. This changes his neutral special to fire breath and some of his other moves gain fire properties such as his up special becoming Fire Cutter and his neutral air becoming Fireball Spin.
Honestly, even that might be too much for beginner friendly Kirby, so maybe it's best for Kirby to stay as is. However, if there's one thing about Kirby's moveset that I think seriously needs to be changed, it's that they need to make his down tilt Slide Tackle.
Snake is also someone who needs a re-work, he is a Stealth-Icon so why is he making a battle look like It's raining Bob-Omb's in Sudden Death?
I think every explosive, with the exception of his C4, should just go away for things that a stealthy character would bring to a fight.
Tranquilizer Gun, Stun Grenades, a knife, and stronger grabs and throws when the enemy is grabbed from behind are just a few examples I can think of, someone who actually played all of the Metal Gear games could come up with far more ideas.
You would love Snake in Project M then since a lot of the stuff you mentioned is in his moveset in that game!
Sounds like a pain to fight and kinda boring to watch...
Fun Fact: Before Smash, Snake was used in a fighting game called Dream Mix, which never released outside of Japan.
As much as Ganonforf's move set is by a design point bad there is a sizable group of people fell in love with his destructive design. I think what should at the very least make an Echo fighter with Ganon's move set or something before completely throw his moves away. As much as people say otherwise Captain Falcon can't replace Ganondorf's old move set by himself.
Ganon's Smash moveset is definitely fun but they could've stuck in on any big slow dude and it would've worked. I'd be fine passing it onto a different character and giving Ganon a proper moveset
Maybe blood falcon? He could have everything that ganon has except for smash attacks
Perhaps Captain Falcon's nemesis Black Shadow could adopt Ganodorf's current moveset?
@@dreamlanderjoel8162 Ganondorf battles in the Zelda games were never interesting, except for maybe pig Ganon. So I find Smash Ganon to be an upgrade for him.
mario’s down air is from galaxy albeit it was in smash first. but still. mario’s down smash is from mario 64.
His down air is similar to galaxy but I don't think it's the same move. Mario down air is a multihit in Smash but a singular hit in Galaxy and there's a lack of similarity in the animation (would've liked them to show the luma popping out like it does in Galaxy or at least some sparkles). You're right on the Mario 64 downsmash though!
I think The Down Air is supposed to be a spin jump from Super Mario World
I feel like Cappy was considered but then turned down because he is featured in a taunt.
Yeah that could definitely be the case. They just rarely make significant changes to the movesets of classic characters so it was probably a short conversation lol
7:42 what does this mean? she uses the Pen as a Tether grab? i don't get it.
Mario Changes -
Side Smash (Hammer): Replacing the original fire burst, Mario now wields his Hammer from the Mario & Luigi series and slams it down forwards.
Can actually increase height of ground jump if the jump command is input immediately upon landing on the ground.
Down Special (Hammer Attack): Mario takes out a hammer and slams downwards with it on the ground and in front of him at a sideways angle in the air.
Up Aerial (F.L.U.D.D. Squirt): Used to be his Down Special. Mario squirts a short spray of water upwards; water contains pushboxes, F.L.U.D.D. has hitboxes.
Neutral Special (Firebrand): Mostly just a rename to his signature move from Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, since he can still throw fireballs like he did before, but now it's a chargeable move. The fireball becomes bigger and stronger the more it's charged, and Mario will say "Fire!" if he throws it fully charged.
Up Special (Luma Spin): Mario performs a Luma Spin from Super Mario Galaxy, which access himself high into the air (about the same height at his super jump from previous games). This recovery however has a larger side hitbox, and has a slight gravitational pull that can bring opponents and objects closer. After the spin, a tiny Luma spins above his head then disappears back under his cap.
Side Special (Cappy Toss): Mario tosses his new trusty friend, Cappy, forward like a disc. By simply pressing side B (and letting go right away) Mario simply tosses Cappy forward and he returns quickly. Hold Side B to make Mario toss Cappy forward, but Cappy will stay at his peak distance for a minute while continuing to spin. This can deal chain DMG to opponents, and Mario can leap on Cappy to get an extra bounce as if he hit a spring item. Lastly, if side B is held, then quickly tap the analog stick the other direction, Cappy will return and circle Mario a few times before going back to his hand, which deals great upward launch DMG and can string a combo against opponents.
Forward Throw (Thoreau Throw): Based on the Thoreau attack from Super Paper Mario. Mario places the opponent above him and is free to carry them around for a bit before throwing them.
Down Aerial (Mario Tornado): While it technically still is Mario Tornado, the move now looks more like a Star Spin from Super Mario Galaxy, down to having the same sound effect and Baby Luma also appearing for a split second above him.
Down Taunt: Mario twirls around before facing the screen and doing a 'V' sign with his hand, saying "Here we go!". This is a reference to his Star Get pose from Super Mario 64.
Victory Animation 4: A Star appears around Mario, who spins around and poses, making a V-sign with his fingers.
For the one victory animation he already has where he jumps and does the pose, he should be coming off a flag pole before he does the pose
I think sheik could have attacks from hyrule warriors, where she is more accurate to her source material
I agree since she uses her harp as a main part of her moveset in warriors but I'm fine were her Smash moveset as is too since she doesn't have much source material anyway
@@PowPowSmash yeah, same here
@@seabass64 Sheik's Final Smash is a reference to Hyrule Warriors.
i don't even know why they added dr. mario. if they wanted a mario clone they could've had paper mario or a toad semiclone. hell,they could've had daisy as a peach clone
Yeah they should've just made doc a Mario alt skin like he was in Project M and given the roster spot to Paper Mario
2:50 I know for a fact you were salty after this. I'M salty and it didn't even happen to me.
LOL I definitely wasn't expecting him to get it on his first try that's for sure
Mario's moveset sucks and here's how I would fix it:
Forward smash: keep current smash
Down smash: keep current smash
Up smash: Mario should reference more of his punching bricks with his bare hands more. The attack has Mario having a large fist that just goes up which doesn't have good reach but deals more damage
Jab: keep current smash
Forward tilt: keep current smash (I don't know what to use)
Down tilt: keep current smash
Up tilt: keep current smash
Neutral special: keep current smash
Side special: The attack shouldn't have a reference to a powerup in Mario World that's broken. The new attack will be a similar attack as the fireball but Mario would be able to charge it up, and when he fills it all the way he starts to get flame particles around him
Down special: I'm moving FLUDD somewhere else. The new down special would be his hammer used in the Mario and Luigi series. He will hold it out similar to Kirby and King Dedede only he get's slower over time instead of taking damage to encourage players to not hold it for so long. He will then spin it around to deal damage against enemies and reflect projectiles
Up special: keep current smash but let Mario slow fall using the cape to reference slow falling in Mario World
Forward areial: keep current smash
Down areial: it should look like DK's forward areial but facing more downward and towards the screen
Back areial: keep current smash
Up areial: Mario should start with his hands underneath his legs and swing them up then swing them back behind his head
Grab: it's a teather grab using cappy like in Odyssey when Mario uses a checkpoint, Cappy will take him there and drop him off where then Mario will hold the enemy
Forward throw: keep current smash
Down throw: keep current smash
Back throw: keep current smash but have the detail that Mario will throw the enemy by their tail if they have one
final smash: the new final smash will be a cutscene final smash where Mario will use FLUDD's rocket nozzle to jump onto a high plstform to stay away from the rising lava that will touch everyone else
Personally, for Mario’s side special I would keep it the same, just redo the animation so that the cape is now the RPG hammer. It teaches players reflectors, and it’s actually what it does in the game.
For Mario’s down special, I think a ground pound works. If you press b while in the ground pound, you’ll dive (like in Odyssey). And if you do it in on the ground it’s a dive (like in 64)
I think Mario’s neutral and up special are great though. I would make his neutral special a bit faster like in the games though.
I just want some lore put into my boy wario 😔
Bowser's down B is from Super Mario Bros 3
Yeah that's something I definitely goofed on, the comment section has been good about pointing that out :)
Um ACTUALLY Mario’s downsmash is also a reference to Mario 64.
My lawyer will hear about this.
THERE'S THE COMMENT
His dash attack and back throw are as well
i don't agree that everything needs to be a reference, making them fun to play with should be the priority
like giving Jigglypuff some fairy move just because shes now fairy type is dumb, shes the balloon pokemon and her design focus on that
Zelda look is based of one seen in tlozalttp
Right, Sakurai talked about how they wanted the appearance of each zelda character in Smash to represent as many different games in the series as possible. Pretty cool!
Can Wario get a shoulder bash instead of his bike and literally anything instead of his waft
Shoulder bash is already his side b but yeah they could have his side b work like it does in PM
No that you mention it, as iconic as waft is to Wario's moveset it isn't a reference to any of his games LOL. Never thought about that
The Shoulder Bash is actually his Dash Attack, not his Side Special.
@@PowPowSmash Wario does fart in Wario ware Smooth moves.
Wario is gassy from eating so much garlic. It's also a reference his special move to Mario Kart GP in arcades.
What was that Mario plush he threw?
I got it when I was super young from Toys R Us! Like 20+ years ago 😂💀
The actual reason why bowser is how he is, is because in sakurai mind, bowser is an animalistic vicious monster (not the somewhat goofy egocentric and proud powerhouse he is in the Mario series)
then maybe designing animalistic characters should be the job of whoever created that character in that case
@@seabass64 what???
I still think king koopas down b should replace up b
I think donkey Kong is fine pretty much fine maybe a barrel up B or press B in sheild to spawn a throwable barrel not every character needs to be a 1 to 1 creation of the character
There are some characters like Fox or Falcon that it makes more sense for them to just have made up moves but why not try to make a character play as much like their own games as possible? That seems to be the dev teams philosophy in the recent Smash titles when adding new characters
@@PowPowSmash making a character play as close to there game as close as possible makes it harder to be creative with the character and I think the new moves for dk and Mario fit quiet well
@@obamaobama7999 whats the point on being creative with the characters if it isnt needed?
that Barrel Up-B can work like Bowser Jr's Up-B, on-stage utility wise
@@seabass64 creativity with a character is sometimes what gives it its personality and what distinguish is it from other characters now is that always the case no but I definitely don't think that every character has to be that way where they have to be just like their games everything has to be a reference like there's a lot of characters that I think are fine I think Mario is fine I think donkey Kong is fine but there is some characters that do need changes like Luigi and Sonic but they don't need as big as changes as everyone else claims that they do
but i like big monke punch >:(
Big monke punch is his final smash too he needs to mix it uppppp
Just give Mario the Mario cyclone back
Ehhh, I think it's fine to have as his down air instead and have FLUUD as his down b since Mario Cyclone isn't really a reference to anything except kind of his spinjump
2:07 dude that's not OoT Zelda it's A Link to the Past Zelda
Also she has been her Twilight Princess version in Brawl and Smash 4, Zelda is one of the better represented ones from the old roster
Edit: I laughed so hard at 9:32
Yes her appearance is A Link to the Past but her moveset is still from OoT. I understand the confusion just from that statement though! If you want a longer/more clear explanation I talk more in depth about the Zelda characters in Smash in this video: ua-cam.com/video/KqBrWaNfRxc/v-deo.html
I like some custom moves :(
Some of them were fine but things like windkong and trip sapling killed any chance of custom moves sticking around unfortunately
Tbh I REALLY Expected the original 12 🤡
Nahhh, characters like Pikachu, Fox, and Falcon have very timeless movesets imo
Ganondorf hasn't been a Falcon clone since 2008.
I could see the argument for him not being a clone starting in ultimate but that's about it
@@PowPowSmash But the vast majority of his moves were changed in Brawl. Even the Smashes he had before Ultimate replaced them with a Sword were different from Captain Falcon's.
Sonic is literally the least expressive character in smash
Characters like Steve, G&W, and R.O.B definitely have it worse but our standards for how expressive Sonic should be are definitely not met in Smash Bros. anymore :/ they butchered him after Brawl
Yeah but in brawl sonic was a bit more expressive but in latter games he has became less expensive also mr game and watch isn’t expressive because he doesn’t have a face
Powpow do you think pac man and sonics alts are awful and the worst alts in smash
@@shadoward1051 Sega maybe to blame for Sonic's lack of Expression. Mostly likely because Sonic games are never allowed to be as expressive as Unleashed. At least he's more expressive than Snake.
Seems like people these characters to be so unfun play against. Like imagine if DK actually got a Projectile. The bitching won't stop...
Besides not everyone likes melee
Fair! But the continued success of the Melee competitive community shows how great the game is whether it's your cup of tea or not though :)
@@PowPowSmash of course!
Dr. Mario actually has a lot of potential to be unique from regular Mario; you just don't see it. I diagnose you with a lack of creativity. Doctor's recommendation: innovate new moves based on stuff doctors do. I'm prescribing an aesthetic change to the Side Smash by putting a defibrillator in Dr. Mario's hand to justify the electric effects. Add in a dosage of stethoscope jabs in the pummel, maybe some moves that strike certain pressure points, and you've got yourself a fresh, decloned Dr. Mario.
You get an A for effort with the doctor puns ⭐
i'm sorry but please dont tell sakurai to cut down the roster it will just remove good characters
If they do cut down the roster it would likely mean getting rid of a lot of redundant characters like Toon Link and Dr. Mario before removing any of the iconic ones
9:00 worst take I've ever heard sheesh
You've never played the first two Paper Mario games have you
@@PowPowSmash doc is already made. If you honestly cared about smash, you’d understand that Doc is one of the most respectable characters in Ultimate. His kit is threatening, but his Achilles’ tendon is his air speed. He is a slow but threatening force to reckon with. He’s got such Iconic combos at his disposal like Down-throw Tornado and Frame-3 Up-b outta shield, heck, his side-b isn’t even that good, making a lot of his gameplay more offensive. He doesn’t stall or get away with crap like what puff can do- he isn’t aggressive to the point where it’s insufferable like Inkling… his kit is as chivalrous as you can find in Smash Ultimate. He’s more confrontational while standard Mario is more manipulative.
@@PowPowSmash I’ve played paper Mario. Don’t get me wrong- I think it would make for a compelling moveset for a character. My one issue is that I could make the same arguement for game & watch. “They’re both flat. Replace the boring flat one with a new flat one”. It could easily be argued that there is very much distinct about the character. I’m not considering clones as a very compelling argument because I value clones that have more than just a change in the visual department. Doc even got some upgrades when transitioning into ultimate just to bolster his kit and justify his distinction even more. Dair is a super interesting example, and has made doc an absolute shark offstage.
11:12 zelda uses din's fire in the rythym zelda game ofc it was created after meelee but eh its not that bad even tho i would love have a more accurate zelda