Comparing: The Scumback S75-PVC And Celestion AlNiCo Gold
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- Опубліковано 24 лип 2024
- A while ago, I reviewed the Scumback S75-PVC - and it's a speaker I was really loving then, and am still very much enjoying a few months on. It did divide opinion in the comments section slightly, but for the old-school British alnico jangle, I think it's definitely right up there with its competitors.
But one thing that's been asked on many a forum over the years - how does the S75-PVC compare to the Celestion Gold? They're both trying to do a similar-type thing - so are they the same? Their unit price is fairly similar, so depending on your geographical location, can you treat them as equivalents, of sorts? Let's find out!
What do you think? Which did you prefer? And why? Comment below!
Amps are a Vajra JTM45 clone and Orange CS Retro 50; running into a Zilla Studio Pro 2x12 cabinet loaded with Scumback S75-PVC AlNiCo and Celestion Alnico Gold speakers. Recorded with sE R1 ribbon mics, with a Schoeps CMC6 room mic.
joeperkinsmusic
jp@joeperkins.co.uk
0:00 Intro
2:54 Playing
11:02 Outro
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Both are great , Joe. I'm always glad to see the beauty of the Gold AlNiCo remains the same along the years, in my opinion sounds rounder and at the same time with richer mid-lows. Keep these comparisons coming mate!
Thanks Joe, another great comparison!
Most people are saying they prefer the Gold. I bought the s75-pvc AFTER watching this video. People who go this deep down the rabbit hole often forget that guitars DON'T "cut through the mix" on their favorite mastered album tracks that much. They just fit in. I don't know if I've actually heard a guitar part poke out on any of my favorite records as much as it seems like the Celestion would. As far as live situations go, just use a properly voiced drive or boost WHEN YOU NEED TO STAND OUT. The Celestion kind of gives me immediate ear fatigue, to be honest. The transients are so percussive. It's all personal taste in the end. Been a fan for quite a while, Joe. Thanks for this one. I think the Scumback will suit my playing well :)
Thanks Matthew - glad it was a useful one for you :-)
This is a compelling argument, imho. Kinda changed how I contextualized or took in the sounds. Thanks, mate!
This is true. Many guitarists (and other musicians like bassist) always want more midrange and it’s a classic “more isn’t always more” situations .
Infact mixers don’t tend to boost the midrange of the guitar , they tend to boost the lower end of what they polished up and the high end grind.
Guitars in mixed songs that sound polished are not super heavy in the low mids or range where the guitar sounds “hard”. Often the guitars sound kinda airy.
And also on real life it’s brutal to listen to at loud volumes too.
When it comes to professional recording it’s about what sounds best first then you can figure out how to mix everything else in.
A lot of people do use v30s or greenbacks but again you only end up hearing the high end the most usually. Obviously it all matters in context, amp head, cab, etc..
Thanks Perky, Demo highlighted the differences that I have head myself between the two
Terrific comparison! TY Joe
Really appreciate these videos you do Joe, easily some of the best I've come across. I know I'm not the first you've heard this from, but it's really obvious in comparison with speakers that have very different efficiency ratings that you just can't get an honest sense of how they compare tonally without normalizing the audio excerpts. I came away much preferring the Gold like everyone else when I first listened to this. Then I decided to take some excerpts into my DAW and level match the two so it's apples to apples and WOW what a difference that made. Volume is a hell of a drug, they are extremely similar speakers after all! Really the scumback sounds to me almost exactly like the gold with that spike in the upper midrange pulled back. It's more balanced, but still very similar.
I don't own and have never owned a scumback, so no horse in the race.
I've started doing speaker comparisons a little differently nowadays - I tend to start of with everything equal to show the sensitivity differences, and then match the levels to better compare the EQ etc. Gives the best of both worlds :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic smart! Curious, for a 1x12 ac30 clone what would you go with? Gold? Fane a30? Sc75?
@@YeatzeeGuitar Probably a Gold - just sounds _right_ in an AC30 🙂
Hi Joe! Firstly, I love watching your speaker videos and comparisons.
Always highly enjoyable, excellent playing, and with the right mix of chords and arpeggios which truly demonstrate the various speakers and their attributes.
Now, on to the Scumback S75 PVC. I have owned a pair of these which were fitted in an open backed Cornell 2x12 cab.
I found them to be great sounding whilst playing alone in the studio or at home. However, as soon as the speakers were used in a real band context ( loud drums and bass etc), they kind of disappeared in the mix. The celestion alnicos ( blues, golds and creams) always stayed present with plenty of punch, retaining all the right midrange and clarity when playing as a band.
In this demo, I have to say the gold wins for me (even though I have always preferred the tone and feel of the original blue).
It displays the right punch, and clarity whilst also retaining some of that beautiful alnico chime and sparkle
By the way, I am also a huge Fane A60 fan. How about an a60 Vs Scumback demo soon?
Keep up the excellent work !
Basically ( and to clarify) I found the Scumback S75 to be great for lowish volume jangle, but once you give the speaker some more powerful riffage, it gets a little too soft and mushy in comparison to the Gold
That overdriven stuff with the SG really favored the Celestion Gold. In fact, they were very close at lower amounts of overdrive and the Gold got more and more "gooder" as the amount of overdrive went up.
I wonder how they compare when it comes to breakup due to volume?
My choice would be the Celestion Gold.
I'm on the fence about getting a Celestion Gold 50wt for my 1983 Marshall JCM 800 4010 1x12 combo. Its bone stock decked out in the best tubes and has a Rola Celestion G-12 80 in it now - but I think the Gold will be a tonal upgrade after watching a few of your video comparisons. Thanks for doing all the vids on the Gold speaker I appreciate it - also nice to see a fellow lefty who can lay it down! Good work man!
Hi Joe. To me the Scumback is a bit weird. It seems to smooth too much the highs and lows (you can hear it with the ES330) and when you played the Strat it sounded muffled.
With the SG it was slightly better but, still, i hear it muffled.
The Celestion is still the king in my book.
They are both great sounding but the Gold is a notch above and my personal favorite. Sounds glorious to me!
I had an SC75 30 watt scumnico that paired well with the reissue Blue.The Scumnico was smoother - almost too smooth while the reissue Blue is hyper jangly - they balanced each other out tonally in my AC30cc.The Blue was louder but the Scumico moderated the sound and filled in the lower mids while producing nice extended sparkle (nice,not unbalanced at all)
Agreed - I think the Gold/Blue and the S75-PVC are great together :-)
Hi both are great, ill say the gold is a little brighter, or maybe a little louder.
Nice amps too!
Clean you can't tell much diff, soon as OD kicks the Gold is more Mid prominent! Awesome compare!
I do love and play Scumbacks though
Still love my 2X12 with a S75-PVC and a SC75 in it.
I think it was you who turned me onto the S75-PVC originally mate! :P
I have a 2x12 with golds and a couple of the scumbacks. I prefer the golds, but the Scumback works better with a closed back. Adds the fullness the gold already has. Like it’s half blue half gold?
With the first guitar with the filtertron pickup I liked the Scumback best, but with the strat the Gold seemed better.
Thanks for the video. The Scumback sounds like a copy of the Gold and it's definitely quieter and not as bold.
That portion between 7:30 thru 8:03 was very revealing. The Gold definitely sounds much louder and fuller at the SAME volume but what if the Scumback had the volume turned up to equal the gold? Then you might end up concluding that the Scumback is smoother and more evenly sensitive to highs and lows. Or, you might conclude that the Scumback seems to sound muffled in comparison to the Gold. My best guess is that the Gold would tend to ride certain frequencies and sometimes seem harsh during overdriven tones. I do own a 4x12 loaded with Scumback S75s but I don't have and never owned a Celestion Gold. I have owned Celestion Blues concluding that the crunch tones they offer is not what is in my head for typical 60's/70's rock, but the clean tones were what makes a Vox sound like a Vox.
I've had a Celestion "Cream" alnico, loved the clean tones, but I didn't like the overdriven tones.
My conclusion: Un-deniably, about 90% of the rock made in the '67 - '74 period was done thru Celestion Greenbacks (Cream/Hendrix/Led Zeppelin/Deep Purple/Free and many others). Marshall, started to install the ceramic "Greenback" speakers as soon as they were available which was about 1966. I don't claim to be a hard boiled speaker expert, I'd think I wasted a good portion of my life if I did earn that tittle unless I was a speaker and or amp builder:) I'm just sharing some knowledge and experience I've picked up over about 45 years.
We don't have all those fees in America, Celestion Cream is my chosen speaker.
I am thinking of buying a cream. You like yours a lot?
gold has a bit more midrange clarity for me, sounds like it will cut a bit better in a full mix
Scumback all the way for me. Its much more equalized and articulate on the cleans. I would chuck the reissue P12N in the mix next time. For what you were playing its a good middle of the ground option to both of these with the added advantage of being only 97db sensitivity. Fella called @fiveightandten has back to backs for all these speakers in a Deluxe and I got to say I just don't dig the Gold's flabby derriere.
You rock kind sir!
I can't wrap my head around the name scumback...I would pass based only on the name...great vids!
Yeah, it wouldn't have been my first choice of name either 😂
You’ve been living under a rock, sir.
Like everything better through the Celestion Gold here.
I was actually about to put together a 4x12 of the s75-pvc’s but after watching this now I’m thinking maybe I should be doing golds which I wasn’t even considering before. Do you find that the gold is ever too harsh?
Ahh. But just now testing an ir of some blues and some golds, the blue sounds so much better. Which do you think is closer to the blue?
It can be - but sometimes 'harsh' is the right sound you need for a sound that works in a band/mix. Same with the Scumback - sometimes it can feel a bit relaxed in the mids, but that can work too for certain things. For me, I love having the two in the same cab as they a) sound great together, but b) it gives me the option of micing both in different ways for different effects. So if it were me, I'd go for two of each in a X-pattern as they compliment each other really well :-)
You think they would work well together in the 4x12, even with the Celestion being louder? Thanks for help
Every speaker shootout where the volume is not leveled between entries is null and void. Our ears like the louder ones better almost everytime.
For every person wanting the volumes normalised there's another wanting to hear the difference in sensitivity rating. Lots of decisions and compromises to be made in a speaker comparison, and you can't please everybody.
The Gold is definitely more "in your face" where the Scumback seems a bit more laid back
The Gold is the one…well for me anyways. Just more musical I think.
And OD makes louder the Gold!
Joe,
I don't think the Scumbacks hold up to being comparable to the Celestions. If I were you I'd be glad I'm on the Celestion side of the pond. Not one single example brought the Scumbacks even close to the Celestions.
Rick