Paul did a couple similar "tests" to evaluate the .22. Seems Paul is with us in Spirit. I think water is a poor test medium for what was trying to be discovered.. The 22 doesn't bounce around in flesh , bone and 'guts'...
Well maybe it was a freak accident, but when I was 17 one of my closest friends was killed by a ND from .22lr . He was in ICU for about 15 hours. X rays with out a doubt showed it went through his temple bounced off the crown and wedged in his C 1. The blast was so non frightening. But then you saw the immediate end intense bruising around his orbital. His mom and dad decided to take him off the ventilator the next day. Sucks because sometimes I see his mom, and I’m a ghostto her. I know it wasn’t my fault. I was no where near that firearm. Never had a ND in my life. Thanks for being my free internet therapist, everyone who didn’t come here for this.
It happened to me with a .25acp FMJ. Off the back rib, redirected down and got lodged in the diaphragm. Ive got a scar running the whole length of my torso from being opened up to get the bullet out. I guess that makes me a fudd.
As a paramedic for over 30 years, I HAVE seen a bullet "bounce" (deflect). A man (stading) shot in the left shoulder by a 22 magnum, from the front. (Don't know the brand of ammo or bullet type, it was from a rifle though, that was still on the scene) The bullet hit the left clavicle (collar bone), turned (bounced/ricocheted) downward and ended up striking, and lodging, in his heart, killing him.
As a retired RN, I will say I've seen 22's "bounce." While I'll willingly agree that the stories about 22's 'bouncing around' are very exaggerated, I'll point out that a bullet traveling in one direction that changes angle and ends up in another part of the body due to a ricochet effect can truly be considered as having "bounced around" (such as someone shot in the thigh, but getting the bullet removed from near the collarbone). So, yes, the exaggerated stories can be considered fudlore about 80% - 90% of the time, you still have that 10% of weird results. Personally, I think it has something to do with changing tissue densities - such as fascia redirecting pathways towards less dense tissues - such as the sub-q layers.
I thought the same. My father used to use .22 and also .222 high velocity and they definitely travel around inside target. To do it 'properly', you could try use a bunch of plastic bags, filled with orange segments, grapes and other stone fruits sorta suspended in a medium of gelatine. It would be more representative of an actual abdominal cavity, because most of our organs are softer than ballistic gelatine, which is supposed to be some kind of average (I think it's closer to flexing muscle tissue). And a nice call back to Paul Harrel's oranges etc to better represent lung alveoli, ribs etc. RIP Paul
Confirmed 47 years in the ED, EMS at level 1 and 2 trauma centers and I can confirm that 22s will ricochet in some manner. As with the poster, I don’t know the mechanism, but I agree that it’s most likely due to the different tissue densities. I’ve had people shot in the chest and we find the round in the pelvis area so some type of redirection is occurring within the body.
@@upholdthesecond92 gelatin targets are not representative of actual flesh, viscous fluid, guts and muscle differences. Heck firing into water diverts the direction of even higher calibers
As a medic for 35 years I have seen bullets entering the body in one spot and ending up in all kinds of crazy places in the body , one particular shooting the bullet hit the stomach near the bellybutton and was found in the neck next to the ear !!
From a report I read published by the OSS they basically stated that 22lr can bounce inside a person but it was un reliable and should not be considered the "primary lethal capability of the round" and they recommended the use of heavier subsonic rounds like the 380 ACP though louder had a greater lethal potential when used in clandestine applications.
While it might be difficult to simulate in various medium (and human torsos being sadly unavailable by legal means), I can tell you of a fatal shooting I worked with a .22 pistol where the round bounced. It entered the sternum at a sharp upward angle, travelled up the inside of the rib-cage, hit a rib high up in the chest, bounced down, perforating the aorta, bounced on another rib, again perforating the aorta and the lung. Instant incapacitation and full death moments later. The ME I met with who had performed the autopsy had, of course seen a lot more shooting than me and he said it is in fact quite common for him to find a .22 that had bounced off a rib or other bone and gone elsewhere. I'm sure a lot depends on the angle, the specific organs and whatnot it encounters along the way, the energy of the bullet at impact, bullet construction, etc., etc. and way too many variables to really test. Still, even in this test we see it IS possible, and according to what I saw, also possible, and according to a well-respected ME, quite possible. Still, another fun video!
Fudd lore or fact? A friend of mine was on guard duty in West Germany in the 1970s when another solider leaned his M16 against the wall, only to have it fall over and discharge. As I recall my friend's description, the bullet came up under the guy's flak jacket and entered his stomach, then proceeded to change direction several times through his chest cavity. Whether this was due to striking bone or the inside of his body armor, I do not know, but it made a mess of him. Despite the severe injuries, he survived.
@@SnappyPolarBear I contacted my friend for more details and he provided them, along with several other incidents he witnessed. I have limited his comments to the original incident I spoke of, and I've edited them for brevity and grammar. This incident occurred sometime around 1974 at a US Army Pershing Missile site in in West Germany. The time is 0'dark-thirty. It became a topic of orientation safety briefings for new personnel such as my friend, who were being assigned to armed nuclear security duty at these sites: "I was told he was on Gate Guard at a Combat Alert Site for Pershing 1A missiles that I worked at. The event happened while my unit was doing Regular Infantry Training at Hohenfels. We were told he had sat his rifle upright on a window ledge of the gate [guard] shack. His rifle was an M16a1. As I was briefed, he stood to open the gate and, reaching for his rifle, knocked it from the window ledge. When it fell upright onto its butt on the concrete floor, the rifle discharged (As you know, simply charging the rifle (chambering a round) results in a dimple appearing on the primer of the loaded round. [As a result] once in a great while on high-use rifle ranges in this time period an AD [accidental discharge] would occur, but as the muzzle was pointed down range, [nobody was overly concerned]). As told to me by an attending medic, the [guard's] rifle discharged and greatly frightened [him]. [A] truck at the vehicle gate impatiently blew its horn [for entry and ID processing into the Pershing missile site]. These things the gate guard did, but he reportedly “felt woozie and unsure of his feet". Using his flashlight, he inspected his roof and found no bullet hole. When he plopped back on his bar stool seat he felt “pain in his guts”, so he then called the Sergeant-of-the-Guard and announced “I had an AD and something is wrong”. The Sergeant-of-the-Guard called for a medic and upon arrival at the C-Gate they found the guard sitting on his stool in distress. [The guard] had found damage to the bottom edge of his M1967 Body Armor (Flak Jacket) and was now not only in pain, but very scared. "The rifle involved was on safe (meaning the hammer was cocked) [and when clearing it] the rifle [ejected a] chambered [live] round. While searching the floor he found an expended shell case, so now there was no doubt a shot had occurred. The Medic asked the guard to stand, and the guard reported he could not. The Medic inspected the bottom edge of the “Flak Jacket” and it appeared to have entry and exit holes and the underlying field jacket was also holed. Unzipping and removing the Flak Jacket and field jacket revealed a holed and blood soaked Blouse. Continuing inward, the t-shirt was holed and soaked and the guard had a hole at his lower left rib. Examining this wound, the guard fainted as the rib suddenly hurt [and] seemed broken. The Medic found no exit wound. They had the guard evacuated by helicopter and he was taken to the main US Military hospital [at Frankfurt]. "In our pre-assignment classes we were told that the weapon had fired when it fell, butt-first on the concrete floor. It was supposed (and tests proved) that with the bolt forward [on an empty chamber] and the weapon on safe, it was possible for the bolt (unencumbered by the cocked hammer) [to] go back far enough to pick up and chamber a round. [In this case the free-floating firing pin had just enough forward momentum to detonate the round as it chambered.] We were told in a briefing that the bullet had struck the edge of the flak jacket and seemingly been destabilized at that time. It supposedly bounced off the lower left rib, breaking it, and then took a path to the upper right edge of his hip girdle, then across to his left hip socket where the bullet shattered and [deflected] off, and supposedly destroyed his prostate. The victim was sent Stateside (we were told to Walter Reed) for substantial internal surgery and likely would receive a medical discharge and 80% plus disability."
I think bounce is the wrong word for it. They do curve and follow bones depending on trajectory. As I understand it too, it was usually a 22 short or 22LR in pocket pistols that "bounced" and would do magical things due to low velocity and being light grain weight. They didnt have enough energy to break thicker bones but could penetrate the skull at certain areas and follow the inside portion of the skull, and sometimes it can even be deflected by the skull and stay under the skin.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 crazy story for you, my grandma was shot 6 times by her ex. He had a 22 short, one bullet hit her front 2 bottom teeth and the bullet got lodged in her spine after passing through her throat. It was 100 percent a kill shot if it had just the littlest bit more ass behind it, I would not be here today. Kinda crazy to think about.
A friend shot himself in the head and survived WW II Webley round bounced off his forehead and slid around to the back under his skin. A Nurse coming off duty found him before he bleed out. 556 from 1-14 twist are devastation at close to medium ranges they break into 2 pieces often and can deflect into unexpected locations.
As a nephew of a guy that was shot in the stomach by .22lr and bounced around through his organs and intestines i can in fact confirm they can & will ricochet inside of a human body if they hit bone without even watching the video first. I've seen it all with my own eyes.
you have *seen* nothing because your nephew is not transparent. All you saw is an entry hole and a bullet found not in a straight line from it. Which means ¨*deflection*, not *bouncing*.
As for a real life test I used to live around the corner from a convenience store. One morning the clerk got shot with a .22. There was only 1 shot. He had to go to surgery twice. The surgery only got a small piece of bullet out of his chest. A Few days later he was still hurting so they ended up giving him a CAT scan and they found the rest of the bullet stuck in his hip bone. So that .22 did some bouncing around, the brand of ammo and the type of pistol fired is unknown to the public. End of story the kid made a full recovery and the shooter was caught.
Maybe more folks need to make arrangements to witness autopsies where .22s were the initiating cause of death. By the way, the same applies to a somewhat lesser extent, in my professional experience, to .25ACP shootings. Nasty, nasty internal damage when bone is involved. Not pretty sights to behold. Please bear in mind though, that the ranges involved were, with one .25ACP exception that comes to mind, a little more than arm's length if that. And no, I'm NOT advocating either the .22 or .25 cartridges as primary, or even secondary, self-defense calibers.
Rounds WILL deflect/tumble and end up in different places, including the lower limbs. Did a trauma review with our M.E. where there was a missing 9mm. It had deflected off the back rib, entered the Aorta and tumbled all the way down to rest in the L Popliteal Artery- that's behind the knee. Rounds do weird things.
I'm seeing a lot of interesting cases of rounds following veins or arteries. It seems like once they defect off of a bone they are liable to follow the path of least resistance and the circulatory system can be that path.
There are medical texts saying bullets that punch through the skull, go through the brain straight and don't have enough energy to pass through the second bone, they will follow the curve of the bone and run along the outside in the space between skull and brain. No bouncing but kind of rolling around like a marble on a curved track. Not .22 specific though.
I am a retired LEOand had several muder cases where the .22 did take irregular paths and ended up places that were not any where near they entered the body. One entered the victims right temple and followed the curve of the skull past his left ear. Another was shot in the left shoulder blade and the bullet lodged in his esophagus. Another entered and hit the left collar bone and was deflected and went thu the victims left lung.
0:40 ... The first time I heard about "The bullet bounces around inside the body" was NOT based off a .22LR, but back when I was a kid in the 70s when I heard it, the statement was talking about the 5.56 round the M16 fires (which is a .22 on steroids, basically). It was often said by proponents of the 5.56/M16 for use in combat. Even in the 80s when I was in the US Army and issued an M16A1 my Drill Sergeant said, "The ball round of the 5.56 NATO is designed to bounce around inside a human torso. We are NOT going back to .30 caliber ammunition for our rifles!" (he was quite the stubborn SOB who lauded the M16 over any other combat rifle). TBH, this video of yours is the first time I have heard anything about a .22LR bouncing around inside a torso. That's a bit of lore I haven't heard.
Maybe look inlook frightening bullet that shot reagan It was a exploding bulvet hit an armored car door Fragmented A little tiny piece hit reagan Apparently it moved around in the body
This happened to my second cousin, he and his friend were messing around with a .22 pistol, his friend shot him in the head, the bullet glanced off the skull but under the skin, wrapped around the outside of his skull (still under the skin) and lodged in the base of his neck near his spine. He survived, but not sure if he ever got the bullet removed., could have been too close to remove. This happened about 30 yrs ago, so you can do some research on common .22 ballistics from the time.
Never knew this was attributed to the .22 as well, always heard about this related the old .32 S&W revolvers and .32 ACP (welrod), but only with head shots.
I'm a retired scrub tech. I was scrubbed in on two craniotomies dealing with self-inflicted .22 shots to the head. In both cases, the bullet entered one side, then bounced off the other side. Both were eventually fatal.
I assisted a man on the subway that was shot in the back in Bronx County and was trying to bandage himself in the 42st Station in Manhattan. His jacket had a .22 hole and powder burns. The bullet hit his rib traveled along the rib and exit a few inches over. Another guy I was in the hospital with was shot in the leg and had an xray. The tech came to check which leg was shot and took another xray because he thought he reversed the film. Next xray was the same. 9mm hole was in the left leg and the bullet was in the right leg with no pass through. The guy was shot in the left leg and it traveled to his pelvis bounced across to the other side and down the opposite leg. Also a friend of mine was shot in the elbow with a 9mm and the bullet traveled to the shoulder and ricochet across his chest and stopped a half inch from his heart. When he first got shot he thought I was crazy for having him lay down and put his legs up in case of internal bleeding. Another guy was laying in the parking lot dead and the killer ran off. Actual bone and flesh in motion are much more different than a static block of gel.
Fascinating. I think that the spin of the bullet contributes a lot to cases where the bullet went all over the place after entering the body. The bullet loses a lot of forward momentum but still has a lot of spin energy in it.
@@fahey5719 Until it contacts a surface that is capable of transferring that spinning force into a driving force. 8/ Obviously you have not put a 22 into a steel drum and watched it run around inside of it for 3 seconds. A 9mm will do the same thing... Shoot a Ice pack on a lake.. That 9mm cxan stop forward movement and still have centripetal energy enough to run along the ground like a rabbit. Most times it just sits and spins for about 10-15 seconds in the ice.. There are youtube vids of both instances..ua-cam.com/video/FcvzQvIHeqU/v-deo.html
This episode was messy... and fun. And after working with coroners and investigators (I do ID work on corpses), do not underestimate the 22 mini mag for it's deadliness. It hits a gang-banger sweet spot of concealability, cheap, and deadly.
It’s a crapshoot on what happens after impact. With all the potential variables. Safe to say getting shot at all is just bad. But the more I see of your testing with a .22 the more I respect the round. Thanks for all the work!!!!
One need only look at one of the most famous shootings of all time to confirm that bullets can, indeed, ricochet inside the human body. No, they do not "bounce around" like a ping-pong ball, but they can certainly strike bone or another more dense region of the anatomy as they are passing through and redirect back into the person causing more damage than if they had just come to a stop or passed directly through. Mark David Chapman (using a .38 Special, not a .22 LR to be sure) shot John Lennon four times in the back. Two hit his left shoulder, while the other two went through his back and through his left lung. One of those two exited Lennon's body, while the other ricocheted and was found lodged in Lennon's neck. All of this is confirmed by the coroner's report. So, whether or not this is "Fudd Lore" depends on how you define "bounced around." If you mean a bullet hit a person and struck bone and changed directions multiple times then, yes, that would be "Fudd Lore." However, if you are only saying it is possible for a bullet to penetrate a person traveling in one direction, strike something, then ricochet or divert and travel back in another direction (while creating a wound channel the whole time), then that is definitely possible. It just depends on how you are defining "bounced around."
Been a fan for a while...but discovered this is attached to a giveaway too? Awesome. Glad you have become big enough to do one. Sign of success! Good stuff on this channel
.22 as not likely, but things like 9mm and .45 have absolutely been recorded of bouncing or deflecting off the scapular. It's one of the reasons being shot in the shoulder ends up being very lethal, the round enters doing "minor" damage then bounces off the shoulder blade into the chest cavity causing lethal damage. This applies to many pistol rounds and fragments of rifle calibers.
The truth of it is this: the human body is not a straight line. It has all kinds of portions of it that are rounded, in-motion, or otherwise not predictable that can allow a bullet to do all kinds of unexpected things within it. It won't ALWAYS do those things, but they can happen. Critically, I'd think of it less as a 'bounce', and more of a 'ricochet', like off of a steel plate. It's just in this case, the ricochet happens while still inside a soft body, opening a second wound path, and potentially hitting important bits it wouldn't have on the first trip through. I've personally seen an X-ray of a .22lr that went in at the left side of the ribcage, straight in front-to-back, and wound up in the pelvic bowl.
...Magic bullets only work when fired from a book depository... These were an Italian invention made to only be fired from 7 mm $7.95 mail order WW II surplus Carcano scope rifles.
Have u seen a 6.5 Swede round ? They’re like a long round nose surf board . They best designed rifle bullet to turn in flesh. U couldn’t design a bullet to yaw more if u tried well not literally but it’s something else
@@jefferyboring4410 ... They best designed rifle bullet to turn in flesh... I saw a study comparison between the military .223, M-16 round and the 7.62 X 39, AK-47 round. They found that the .223 high velocity round did a through and through more often and the 7.62 which would dump more energy in the body by yawing and opening up a much wider wound cavity than the original diameter of the bullet. The original idea behind the .223 was that the 30-06 rounds that fed the M-1 Garand were large, heavy and not very accurate due to their heavy recoil which meant that the average foot soldier couldn't carry enough ammunition to effectively kill a lot of the enemy without having to be resupplied often. They went to the M-14 in Korea and Vietnam which was a switchable semi / full auto M-1 Garand. It still fired the 30-06 round which was still bulky, heavy and once described as the first shot being dead on, the second too high and everything after being anti-aircraft fire. The .223, on the other hand, was fast at 2,600 FPS, powerful for it's size, light enough for a foot soldier to be able to carry more and, with less recoil, more accurate. You can still kill an enemy soldier at distance with a well placed shot but if you didn't kill him, you only slowed him down but he could still be a less effective fighter so it would take more shots to put him down for good.
The truth is that ALL bullets ricochet when the conditions are right. A high powered rifle will tear through anything in the body in a more-or-less straight line while a lesser caliber has a higher chance of changing direction unexpectedly when encountering different geometries and densities of materials. This happens all the time with smaller calibers and has nothing whatsoever to do with the 22lr specifically. Queue the most famous case of this in the 'magic bullet theory' lore here: Google if you aren't familiar with it.
I enjoyed the skit at the beginning. The demonstration convinced me of two things--the .22 LR is lethal, and humans are tough. The amount of damage inflicted on the simulated "bodies" and "heads" was impressive even when the velocities were low. Various studies on street shootings make the case that the .22 is not a "manstopper." No wonder Israeli assassins used the .22 rimfire. Donald Hamilton's fictional Matt Helm preferred the .22 as an assassin's tool. in 1906 a new small Browning pistol firing the .25 ACP hit the market in Europe, followed by the 1908 in the USA--while not a 12-gauge slug, the little .25 ACP has more capability than advertised today. I lack the resources to duplicate your demonstration. Thanks for the show.
For the Sniper Subsonics they're definitely bad about tumbling out of pistols. They're better out of a rifle because they get some extra time to stabilize but depending on the rifle they may still not be great, I only have one rifle that it's worth running them in and while they don't tumble they're still not super accurate. If you want to shoot them (successfully) out of a shorter barrel you need one with a fast twist rate, I've seen 7-10" barrels for 10/22s with 1:9 twists that should do it (most Ruger .22 barrels that I've seen are 1:16)
I personally can confirm that bullets bounce thanks to a nice souvenir I have on my shelf. Middle of Iowa, my 14yo youth season, and from about 300 yards, my dad missed his first shot at a deer down hill from us. Rather than running off after the first slug skipped off a few yards from it, the deer bounded only a dozen steps before turning around and looking broadside at us. My dad took a second shot, it ran all of a few steps, and dropped. We just sat there in disbelief initially expecting it to get back up. Dressing revealed a shattered rib just behind the heart at entry, a broken rib on the other side, and when I found the slug near the stomach, sure enough it had two distinct impact marks.
@@fahey5719 Oh, I get ya. The first bullet that landed several feet to the side must have taken a sharp, almost 90 degree turn after hitting the dirt, hit the exact same entry hole as the second round, and then evaporated. Or was it the second slug that hit exactly the same entry location since there was no exit wound? Or did one of the bullets perfectly navigate the digestive track and pop out the backside as to avoid detection? Anyway, your magic bullet version sounds so much more plausible than a simple bullet bounce🤣🤣🤣
Closest i have ever seen to a .22 "bouncing around" was a dude at the local gun show who had a loaded .22 pen gun in his pocket. It went off and hit the bone in his leg. It dug its way through his bone marrow and came out the back of his knee.
I lost a friend who took a new shooter out and was shot in the upper arm hit his humerus and went into his ribcage. Wouldn’t say it pinballed but it did ricochet.
I know most people hear this "myth" and they think pin ball machine, but what meant by bounce is the major deflection that happens when it clips a rib; which is what makes it potentially more deadly. I know it's anecdotal, but when I was 12 my older brother accidentally shot me with a 22. The bullet hit my collar bone, deflected downward at about a 30 degree angle, hit the mammory artery about a half inch from my heart, went through my left lung, hit a rib in my back and started to go further down into my chest cavity before stopping. I spent 2 weeks in the hospital, had 2 chest tubes, a major surgery to repair the damage, and had to be resuscitated 3 times during the surgery. The ballistic investigator said that it had been a large round with shed it by it me, it would have passed right through and not hit anything vital or at worst been lodged in my shoulder blade. I've got the scares to tell the story and with an x-ray you can see the bullet and healed rib that it broke in back.
It was great to meet Ms Banana. Please include her more often. 40-year LEO here. I worked one where a *ahem* 'portly' fellow got shot in the lower back above his right kidney, and the .25 ACP FMJ ran around to his navel between his hide and the nearest layer of muscle; it just tunneled along in the fat and popped out right in the belly button. I recovered it off the gurney they had him on. All the ER did was hose it out with saline and dress both holes. For those who are not so fluent in innuendo, yeah, he was a fat-ass.
The story I remember hearing was of someone being shot with a .22 in the chest. Supposedly, the bullet hit an artery or punctured the heart and traveled in their blood vessels. The bullet was found in the leg. Cool thing about these stories, they are probably true. Bad thing about these stories is that they are probably not repeatable. It is nearly impossible to recreate the exact circumstances around these events, so trying to verify by recreating is almost pointless. What we really are looking for in these sort of experiments is not confirmation of the specific event but rather confirmation of the possibility of the event, no matter how implausible.
Definitely appreciate the effort with what you had on hand and especially with the entertaining humor but: 1) Living bone & tissue, dead bone & tissue, imitation bone & tissue media, and substitute media for bone & tissue (whether living or dead) all react differently. 2) Most, if not all, bullets traveling through a body best will get one bounce at most usually and if lucky. Any more than that would usually be because freak chance with the situation "being just right" in regards to multiple factors. 3) Real tissue and bone (living or dead) is a unique and heterogenous media in structure and density that is further shaped by individual experience. 3) Additionally, the cross-section of a real torso consists of not a single homogenous medium between two layers of skin, muscle, and bone. There's multiple layers skin,one or more layers of adipose tissue of various depth and density, overlapping layers of interwoven/interlaced muscle fibers & connective tissue of varied depth/density, various extra connective tissues, cartilage, membranes, the various components/sections of the circulatory system, etc. that make up the exterior of the thorax and abdomen. Inside the thoracic and abdominal cavities within; there are more layers of adipose tissues, structural & supportive connective tissues, multiple organs (each of different heterogenous density, structure, composition, & cross-section) separated by an often tough exterior membrane, with deadspace between the different interior structures/organs. This highly-complex composite structural format adds the physics-based complications and effects of the bullet as it travels through various media with the added abrupt and sudden changes of transfering between different mediums (different organs, tissues, etc. with different densities, structures, compositions, etc.) with each having its own separate, again, often tough exterior membrane with deadspace between the exterior membranes of each. 4) Others have mentioned this, but the tendency of bullets to deform and "yaw" upon impact and as they travel/pencil/burrow/plow through their target, sometimes wildly, probably has been mistakenly used as added evidence of the "bouncing/ricocheting around" within the body. 5) Finally; there's also the orientation, geometry, path of travel, and the physics-based characteristics of the bullet and the path it travel through its target which determines the medias in the path of travel. There are 5 official unifying principles/rules/tenets/theories of biology. But what applies here are what can be called the 2 unofficial, unwritten unifying principles/tenets/rules/etc. of biology: #1) "Biology is messy." because compared to scientific fields of physics, chemistry, etc., biology is the one science were there is no such thing as "perfect", "absolute", "100% Logical", etc. because in biology; mistakes and choices occur that are opposite of logic, [A->B->C->..../1->2->3->....] and [1+2=3] do not necessarily end up always being correct/the result, and there are always outliers and a margin of error. #2) "Shit Happens." because biology is the only science truly at the mercy of randomness, pure chance, the other sciences, and unrelated aspects of the world around it. As an example, "there could be a nest of baby storks in a dead tree in a swamp that are the once-in-a-million-years winners of the gene lottery and possess the most absolutely perfect combination genes/genetic traits and tendencies that will shape the future of their species and its evolutionary path and lead to the penultimate perfectly-adpated species of stork. But all of a sudden, before the fledgling storks could mature go out into the world and make that possible future into reality, a thunderstorm develops and rolls through that area where the swamp is and the dead tree with that nest of helpless fledgling future wonder storks which suddenly get insta-deep-fried out of existence and out of the gene-pool snuffing out that possible future all because of a random twist of fate which those fledgling storks had no chance against and had no part in.
Back in San Diego in 1977 my buddy heard a sound in his living room and went to investigate (unarmed). The burglar shot him face on in the right chest, it deflected 90 degrees up and stopped just under the skin between his neck and shoulder joint where you could see the bulge under the skin, but didn't exit. However, it wasnt a 25 or a 22 but was 380 HP that didn't even expand (the jackets on a lot of ammo back then was too thick so pretty common). The bullet went through his shoulder and ricocheted upward off his shoulder blade. Note that although the bullet didn't come anywhere near his shoulder joint he had lots of pain in it ever after (some tyoe of hydraulic shock? NOT saying hydrostatic, 380s too slow for that, but hydraulic shock happens at subsonic velocities).
I remember a guy getting drunk and shooting himself in the belly with a 22. Somebody called the cops, but he refused to go to the hospital, so they left. (Today they would assault him, or maybe kill him). They came back a few hours later after some of the alcohol had worn off, and he decided he should go to the hospital.Not sure the bullet 'bounced' inside him, but it did stay in him, until a doctor removed it. He survived. Talk of oranges reminds me off a book in my elementary school library. (pretty sure they wouldn't allow such a thing these days). The book had some photos of bullets taken with high speed cameras. One photo showed an orange exploding as a 22 passed through it. I wish I knew the name of that book! This was in the 60s.
With lighter bullets, I'm sure it's more a case of the bullet being deflected rather than bouncing. As an old combat vet, I know the 5.56 caused a lot of weird wounds where as the 7.62x39 plowed straight (at least straighter) through.
Haha. good stuff! Now there are recorded cases of 22LR forehead shots where the projectile entered and followed the contour of inner skull and entered the spinal canal where it then stopped inches to a FOOT in the spinal column. FRIGGN CRAZY.
The .22 rimfire bullet being made of relatively soft lead hitting a hard bone can deflect quite readily. On occasion that deflection can be tangential. Bodies are not a continuous fluid, like gel or water, so the course of the deflection is not maintained by a "supporting" medium. If the bullets tumbles, multiple redirections may occur upon striking additional objects, especially bone(s). The repeatability of any of the odd deflections is likely impossible as the "targets" are uniquely constructed, although generally similar, and the way the bullets approach the target are unique as well. There is likely insufficient energy and space for a 22 rimfire bullet to "make laps" or "ping pong" inside a skull or torso, but one certainly could take a turn and ping off once. Your tests, as always, are interesting and informative, and many of your "deviations" are extremely entertaining.😂 👍👍
My very first murder case as a cop involved a guy shot in the abdomen by his "wife", (common law). It took a while to even locate the entry hole; closed back up with almost no blood, but he was stone dead. The Medical Examiner found that the bullet had passed through the heart after bouncing off the pelvis. This was 1974, but I remember that one.
Water does not provide any structure to resist the bullets deviation. Tissue has structure and would react quite differently, hence why the gel didn't bounce back but the water did. The bullets can literally fall through water, but not gel or tissue.
@@Atomic_Muppetthey used them because they were cheap, quiet, effective, and didn't exit or cause a mess. Ol' tyme gangsters used knives and looked you in the eye.
The variety of comments about this subject should be interesting. ❤ Cops will have the only answer I'll depend on. Knowing several cops in my life, knowing doctors and nurses and what the effect of these 22 bullets do in the actual body gives me the accurate answer already. But still a highly scientific video Double B. 🎈🥳🎈 The density of muscle, water percentage mass of organs vs that of contents of the intestines and the space between skin and body cavities tells me that 22's will CERTAINLY swim in the path of least resistance. 22's do NOT go in a straight line in human bodies, even forgetting about bone. They're too cheaply made to be predictable in an area of diff masses.
A relative of mine was shot at point blank range in the head during a robbery w/ a .22. Fortunately, it was a glancing shot so it didn't penetrate his skull, but it rode along his skull under his scalp and finally stopped near the occipital ridge. The docs decided to leave it there rather than risk surgery. I don't know that that qualifies as 'bouncing around', but the test .22's didn't circumnavigate the beef ribs, either, yet it - or something like it - happens.
I heard the bounce story mostly associated with the skull where the .22 had enough power to penetrate one side of the skull but would bounce off the other side or follow the contour of the skull. The rib bounce doesn’t really seem to make much sense.
Loved the ER intro with Mrs. Banana. You should've had NurseWife issue you a roll of tan stretchy gauze (flex-gauze?) to sandwich the gel/water jugs/tenderized vittles. Very interesting results. Demolition Ranch might like this video.
to do it 'properly', you could try use a bunch of plastic bags, filled with orange segments, grapes and other stone fruits sorta suspended in a medium of gelatine. It would be more representative of an actual abdominal cavity, because most of our organs are softer than ballistic gelatin, which is supposed to be some kind of average (I think it's closer to flexing muscle tissue). And a nice call back to Paul Harrel's oranges etc to better represent lung alveoli, ribs etc. RIP Paul
I know that when I was shooting a steel drum burn barrel with my grandfather that occasionally I would hear the bullet spinning inside the drum similar to a BB in a ton can. Gun and ammo I don't remember, range was thirty feet or so.
🤔🤔 normally im not one to argue even with science but from experience, videos and pictures seen. Early 223 during the war in the middle east had some kind of inconsistencies that one in five would bounce around. In basic they showed us videos of impact(entrance) on target, target falls. They do bdar and assessments and see the entrance and no exit, non edited video, after five minutes of assessing target see the bullet protruding from the inner thigh. An autopsy then verified the bullet bounced internally. And now quality is so much better than before. Yet again just my experience and 2 cents.
I swear to dog, the amount of people crying, "It didn't bounce, exactly, it deflected! No, wait, it followed a curve!". The point is: these rounds are perfectly capable of ending up where no one would expect them and causing additional damage along the way. No amount of word-wrangling will negate that.
I defended a guy in a murder trial in 2014 who had shot a guy a few times with a .22. The testimony from the experts and medical people were fascinating. Those little bullets went inside the guy and took all sorts of crazy paths through his body. It was hard to believe some of what they did if I hadn't seen it for myself.
Where I live - one hunter was killed recently because the bullet from other hunter changed direction inside the animal (maybe 10-20 degrees), came out and hit him. That wasn't 22 thou. I remember one old vid from Demolition Ranch where Matt shot into the ground with 50 cal, then realized that bullet did almost 180 in there. I remember seeing at least two more vids where he experimented with ricochets - sending bullets down curved pipes and finding out how many plates one bullet could bounce off of (10+). Moral of the story - once bullet hits something on an slight angle, it definitely has probability to change direction. Here the angle was mostly 90. I've seen several cyclone type pellet/bullet traps in use - bullet enters its side, on small angle and then makes whatever number of round trips in there, settling into a container below. Ribcage is pretty much like that trap...
For the uppercut being the most devastating 22 hollow point, they sure do suck. I have yet to see a video where one actually opened in gel like it should. That mini mag produced way more energy dump....
😊ive always heard of .22 bouncin in skull which point out some flaws in your testing. Skull is curved on both sides, and shot most likely would not be perpendicular too it (while i doubt a pinball effect i would expect a return bounce wound channel with tumbling wouldnt be out of the questi9n)
I saw this phenomenon a lot of the forensic shows, with skulls and 22s "bouncing around" no, but some backwards momentum. Maybe the concave shape of the surface has more to do with it. [Grumbles: "mountain spring water doesnt simulate brain matter!"]
My dad was shot in the front of his thigh with a .22LR. The round hit his femur, bounced off the bone, and ended up in his hamstring. I've never heard the myth of the bullet bouncing around scrambling up a ribcage, but the rounds can definitely bounce off a bone and do weird shit.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 That sounds like semantics to me. Call it whatever you want, it didn't break the bone and curved in a strange circular way around it afterwards.
Paul Harrell is smiling seeing the new take on the meat target.
Banana Pop Tart, anyone?
As always "you be the judge!"
As soon as I saw ribs wrapped in t-shirts I felt Paul's dry, amazing sense of humor wash over me. I miss him so much man
Is it enough difference to make a difference? you be the judge
Paul did a couple similar "tests" to evaluate the .22. Seems Paul is with us in Spirit.
I think water is a poor test medium for what was trying to be discovered..
The 22 doesn't bounce around in flesh , bone and 'guts'...
"That son of a bitc..."had me rolling
😂😂😂😂
Same
@@dsandoval9396 👍👍👍😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Me too lmao
Well maybe it was a freak accident, but when I was 17 one of my closest friends was killed by a ND from .22lr . He was in ICU for about 15 hours. X rays with out a doubt showed it went through his temple bounced off the crown and wedged in his C 1. The blast was so non frightening. But then you saw the immediate end intense bruising around his orbital. His mom and dad decided to take him off the ventilator the next day. Sucks because sometimes I see his mom, and I’m a ghostto her. I know it wasn’t my fault. I was no where near that firearm. Never had a ND in my life. Thanks for being my free internet therapist, everyone who didn’t come here for this.
Can you explain a little more about how it happened?
It happened to me with a .25acp FMJ. Off the back rib, redirected down and got lodged in the diaphragm. Ive got a scar running the whole length of my torso from being opened up to get the bullet out. I guess that makes me a fudd.
Proof??
@ how am I supposed to prove that through a comment section on UA-cam? And why would I lie about that?
Achievement Unlocked: 🟣fudd🎖
So redirected, not bounced around. Glad you're still alive
...I guess that makes me a fudd...
No, that makes him a Fudd. That makes you lucky to be alive.
As a paramedic for over 30 years, I HAVE seen a bullet "bounce" (deflect). A man (stading) shot in the left shoulder by a 22 magnum, from the front. (Don't know the brand of ammo or bullet type, it was from a rifle though, that was still on the scene) The bullet hit the left clavicle (collar bone), turned (bounced/ricocheted) downward and ended up striking, and lodging, in his heart, killing him.
Amd when reagan was shot, a bullet entered a blood vessel and rode it in to his lung iirc.
Deflect? Yes. Bounce? Maybe a couple mm if that much. Ricochet? Only if hitting steel or granite.
@@fahey5719a piece of soft metal spinning and traveling 800mph can do wild things.
Was this an accident or deliberate homicide?
As a retired RN, I will say I've seen 22's "bounce." While I'll willingly agree that the stories about 22's 'bouncing around' are very exaggerated, I'll point out that a bullet traveling in one direction that changes angle and ends up in another part of the body due to a ricochet effect can truly be considered as having "bounced around" (such as someone shot in the thigh, but getting the bullet removed from near the collarbone).
So, yes, the exaggerated stories can be considered fudlore about 80% - 90% of the time, you still have that 10% of weird results. Personally, I think it has something to do with changing tissue densities - such as fascia redirecting pathways towards less dense tissues - such as the sub-q layers.
I thought the same. My father used to use .22 and also .222 high velocity and they definitely travel around inside target. To do it 'properly', you could try use a bunch of plastic bags, filled with orange segments, grapes and other stone fruits sorta suspended in a medium of gelatine. It would be more representative of an actual abdominal cavity, because most of our organs are softer than ballistic gelatine, which is supposed to be some kind of average (I think it's closer to flexing muscle tissue). And a nice call back to Paul Harrel's oranges etc to better represent lung alveoli, ribs etc. RIP Paul
Yep, exactly what happens. One of the common occurrences with the 5.56 (223) used in the Vietnam war. Difficult to replicate with a handmade target
Confirmed 47 years in the ED, EMS at level 1 and 2 trauma centers and I can confirm that 22s will ricochet in some manner. As with the poster, I don’t know the mechanism, but I agree that it’s most likely due to the different tissue densities. I’ve had people shot in the chest and we find the round in the pelvis area so some type of redirection is occurring within the body.
Came here as a medic to say this!!!!!
@@upholdthesecond92 gelatin targets are not representative of actual flesh, viscous fluid, guts and muscle differences. Heck firing into water diverts the direction of even higher calibers
As a medic for 35 years I have seen bullets entering the body in one spot and ending up in all kinds of crazy places in the body , one particular shooting the bullet hit the stomach near the bellybutton and was found in the neck next to the ear !!
Deviation, deflection or "bounced around"?
@@sinisterthoughts2896 D: All of the above
Bullshit
Fluid dynamics...it's complicated
But were you a medic in Narnia or McWorld?
From a report I read published by the OSS they basically stated that 22lr can bounce inside a person but it was un reliable and should not be considered the "primary lethal capability of the round" and they recommended the use of heavier subsonic rounds like the 380 ACP though louder had a greater lethal potential when used in clandestine applications.
While it might be difficult to simulate in various medium (and human torsos being sadly unavailable by legal means), I can tell you of a fatal shooting I worked with a .22 pistol where the round bounced. It entered the sternum at a sharp upward angle, travelled up the inside of the rib-cage, hit a rib high up in the chest, bounced down, perforating the aorta, bounced on another rib, again perforating the aorta and the lung. Instant incapacitation and full death moments later. The ME I met with who had performed the autopsy had, of course seen a lot more shooting than me and he said it is in fact quite common for him to find a .22 that had bounced off a rib or other bone and gone elsewhere.
I'm sure a lot depends on the angle, the specific organs and whatnot it encounters along the way, the energy of the bullet at impact, bullet construction, etc., etc. and way too many variables to really test. Still, even in this test we see it IS possible, and according to what I saw, also possible, and according to a well-respected ME, quite possible.
Still, another fun video!
Fudd lore or fact? A friend of mine was on guard duty in West Germany in the 1970s when another solider leaned his M16 against the wall, only to have it fall over and discharge. As I recall my friend's description, the bullet came up under the guy's flak jacket and entered his stomach, then proceeded to change direction several times through his chest cavity. Whether this was due to striking bone or the inside of his body armor, I do not know, but it made a mess of him. Despite the severe injuries, he survived.
I’m more shocked that an m16 went off from being dropped
@@SnappyPolarBear I contacted my friend for more details and he provided them, along with several other incidents he witnessed. I have limited his comments to the original incident I spoke of, and I've edited them for brevity and grammar. This incident occurred sometime around 1974 at a US Army Pershing Missile site in in West Germany. The time is 0'dark-thirty. It became a topic of orientation safety briefings for new personnel such as my friend, who were being assigned to armed nuclear security duty at these sites:
"I was told he was on Gate Guard at a Combat Alert Site for Pershing 1A missiles that I worked at. The event happened while my unit was doing Regular Infantry Training at Hohenfels. We were told he had sat his rifle upright on a window ledge of the gate [guard] shack. His rifle was an M16a1. As I was briefed, he stood to open the gate and, reaching for his rifle, knocked it from the window ledge. When it fell upright onto its butt on the concrete floor, the rifle discharged (As you know, simply charging the rifle (chambering a round) results in a dimple appearing on the primer of the loaded round. [As a result] once in a great while on high-use rifle ranges in this time period an AD [accidental discharge] would occur, but as the muzzle was pointed down range, [nobody was overly concerned]). As told to me by an attending medic, the [guard's] rifle discharged and greatly frightened [him]. [A] truck at the vehicle gate impatiently blew its horn [for entry and ID processing into the Pershing missile site]. These things the gate guard did, but he reportedly “felt woozie and unsure of his feet". Using his flashlight, he inspected his roof and found no bullet hole. When he plopped back on his bar stool seat he felt “pain in his guts”, so he then called the Sergeant-of-the-Guard and announced “I had an AD and something is wrong”. The Sergeant-of-the-Guard called for a medic and upon arrival at the C-Gate they found the guard sitting on his stool in distress. [The guard] had found damage to the bottom edge of his M1967 Body Armor (Flak Jacket) and was now not only in pain, but very scared.
"The rifle involved was on safe (meaning the hammer was cocked) [and when clearing it] the rifle [ejected a] chambered [live] round. While searching the floor he found an expended shell case, so now there was no doubt a shot had occurred. The Medic asked the guard to stand, and the guard reported he could not. The Medic inspected the bottom edge of the “Flak Jacket” and it appeared to have entry and exit holes and the underlying field jacket was also holed. Unzipping and removing the Flak Jacket and field jacket revealed a holed and blood soaked Blouse. Continuing inward, the t-shirt was holed and soaked and the guard had a hole at his lower left rib. Examining this wound, the guard fainted as the rib suddenly hurt [and] seemed broken. The Medic found no exit wound. They had the guard evacuated by helicopter and he was taken to the main US Military hospital [at Frankfurt].
"In our pre-assignment classes we were told that the weapon had fired when it fell, butt-first on the concrete floor. It was supposed (and tests proved) that with the bolt forward [on an empty chamber] and the weapon on safe, it was possible for the bolt (unencumbered by the cocked hammer) [to] go back far enough to pick up and chamber a round. [In this case the free-floating firing pin had just enough forward momentum to detonate the round as it chambered.] We were told in a briefing that the bullet had struck the edge of the flak jacket and seemingly been destabilized at that time. It supposedly bounced off the lower left rib, breaking it, and then took a path to the upper right edge of his hip girdle, then across to his left hip socket where the bullet shattered and [deflected] off, and supposedly destroyed his prostate. The victim was sent Stateside (we were told to Walter Reed) for substantial internal surgery and likely would receive a medical discharge and 80% plus disability."
You could also look at coroners reports, but yea they can deflect and do weird things especially when it comes to the skull.
I think bounce is the wrong word for it. They do curve and follow bones depending on trajectory. As I understand it too, it was usually a 22 short or 22LR in pocket pistols that "bounced" and would do magical things due to low velocity and being light grain weight. They didnt have enough energy to break thicker bones but could penetrate the skull at certain areas and follow the inside portion of the skull, and sometimes it can even be deflected by the skull and stay under the skin.
The urban legend is literally they bounce around making new wound paths, like a rubber ball of doom.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 crazy story for you, my grandma was shot 6 times by her ex. He had a 22 short, one bullet hit her front 2 bottom teeth and the bullet got lodged in her spine after passing through her throat. It was 100 percent a kill shot if it had just the littlest bit more ass behind it, I would not be here today. Kinda crazy to think about.
A friend shot himself in the head and survived WW II Webley round bounced off his forehead and slid around to the back under his skin. A Nurse coming off duty found him before he bleed out. 556 from 1-14 twist are devastation at close to medium ranges they break into 2 pieces often and can deflect into unexpected locations.
Yes, *that* is perfectly possible: following a path sliding along a large and curved bone as a rip or skull.
I knew someone who was shot in the back of the head with a . 22lr. It went out his neck. He lived and got a tattoo where the entry wound was.
As a nephew of a guy that was shot in the stomach by .22lr and bounced around through his organs and intestines i can in fact confirm they can & will ricochet inside of a human body if they hit bone without even watching the video first. I've seen it all with my own eyes.
It didnt bounce around. Maybe deflected but definitely didnt "bounce around"
you have *seen* nothing because your nephew is not transparent. All you saw is an entry hole and a bullet found not in a straight line from it. Which means ¨*deflection*, not *bouncing*.
As for a real life test I used to live around the corner from a convenience store. One morning the clerk got shot with a .22. There was only 1 shot. He had to go to surgery twice. The surgery only got a small piece of bullet out of his chest. A Few days later he was still hurting so they ended up giving him a CAT scan and they found the rest of the bullet stuck in his hip bone. So that .22 did some bouncing around, the brand of ammo and the type of pistol fired is unknown to the public. End of story the kid made a full recovery and the shooter was caught.
After reading all these comments I'm concluding "many such cases" is the take away.
Maybe more folks need to make arrangements to witness autopsies where .22s were the initiating cause of death. By the way, the same applies to a somewhat lesser extent, in my professional experience, to .25ACP shootings. Nasty, nasty internal damage when bone is involved. Not pretty sights to behold. Please bear in mind though, that the ranges involved were, with one .25ACP exception that comes to mind, a little more than arm's length if that. And no, I'm NOT advocating either the .22 or .25 cartridges as primary, or even secondary, self-defense calibers.
Rounds WILL deflect/tumble and end up in different places, including the lower limbs. Did a trauma review with our M.E. where there was a missing 9mm. It had deflected off the back rib, entered the Aorta and tumbled all the way down to rest in the L Popliteal Artery- that's behind the knee. Rounds do weird things.
I'm seeing a lot of interesting cases of rounds following veins or arteries. It seems like once they defect off of a bone they are liable to follow the path of least resistance and the circulatory system can be that path.
@@stopthephilosophicalzombie9017 Yep. Once they've lost that energy, they just follow gravity.
There are medical texts saying bullets that punch through the skull, go through the brain straight and don't have enough energy to pass through the second bone, they will follow the curve of the bone and run along the outside in the space between skull and brain. No bouncing but kind of rolling around like a marble on a curved track. Not .22 specific though.
Great fun and informative show to watch! Always looking forward to see was next.😊
.22 is the lords caliber.
You literally can do many things with that super small package!
I am a retired LEOand had several muder cases where the .22 did take irregular paths and ended up places that were not any where near they entered the body. One entered the victims right temple and followed the curve of the skull past his left ear. Another was shot in the left shoulder blade and the bullet lodged in his esophagus. Another entered and hit the left collar bone and was deflected and went thu the victims left lung.
"Deflect" might be a better would than "bounce" or "ricochet."
@@hoonterofhoonters6588 a deflect is a ricochet.
@@ryanmosley8250 not according to the definition of ricochet.
Those sound like deflecting, not rebounding or bouncing.
@@sinisterthoughts2896 Does that word matter that much when path of bullet is clearly altered from its orginal trajectory ?
0:40 ... The first time I heard about "The bullet bounces around inside the body" was NOT based off a .22LR, but back when I was a kid in the 70s when I heard it, the statement was talking about the 5.56 round the M16 fires (which is a .22 on steroids, basically). It was often said by proponents of the 5.56/M16 for use in combat.
Even in the 80s when I was in the US Army and issued an M16A1 my Drill Sergeant said, "The ball round of the 5.56 NATO is designed to bounce around inside a human torso. We are NOT going back to .30 caliber ammunition for our rifles!" (he was quite the stubborn SOB who lauded the M16 over any other combat rifle).
TBH, this video of yours is the first time I have heard anything about a .22LR bouncing around inside a torso. That's a bit of lore I haven't heard.
Maybe look inlook frightening bullet that shot reagan It was a exploding bulvet hit an armored car door Fragmented A little tiny piece hit reagan Apparently it moved around in the body
This happened to my second cousin, he and his friend were messing around with a .22 pistol, his friend shot him in the head, the bullet glanced off the skull but under the skin, wrapped around the outside of his skull (still under the skin) and lodged in the base of his neck near his spine. He survived, but not sure if he ever got the bullet removed., could have been too close to remove. This happened about 30 yrs ago, so you can do some research on common .22 ballistics from the time.
Never knew this was attributed to the .22 as well, always heard about this related the old .32 S&W revolvers and .32 ACP (welrod), but only with head shots.
That uppercut seems to leave a giant wound channel. The expansion mid block was pretty wild for .22 🤯
I'm a retired scrub tech. I was scrubbed in on two craniotomies dealing with self-inflicted .22 shots to the head. In both cases, the bullet entered one side, then bounced off the other side. Both were eventually fatal.
I assisted a man on the subway that was shot in the back in Bronx County and was trying to bandage himself in the 42st Station in Manhattan. His jacket had a .22 hole and powder burns. The bullet hit his rib traveled along the rib and exit a few inches over.
Another guy I was in the hospital with was shot in the leg and had an xray. The tech came to check which leg was shot and took another xray because he thought he reversed the film. Next xray was the same. 9mm hole was in the left leg and the bullet was in the right leg with no pass through. The guy was shot in the left leg and it traveled to his pelvis bounced across to the other side and down the opposite leg.
Also a friend of mine was shot in the elbow with a 9mm and the bullet traveled to the shoulder and ricochet across his chest and stopped a half inch from his heart. When he first got shot he thought I was crazy for having him lay down and put his legs up in case of internal bleeding. Another guy was laying in the parking lot dead and the killer ran off.
Actual bone and flesh in motion are much more different than a static block of gel.
Fascinating. I think that the spin of the bullet contributes a lot to cases where the bullet went all over the place after entering the body. The bullet loses a lot of forward momentum but still has a lot of spin energy in it.
spin means it rotates around its own axis but trajectory is still a straight line.
@@fahey5719 Until it contacts a surface that is capable of transferring that spinning force into a driving force. 8/ Obviously you have not put a 22 into a steel drum and watched it run around inside of it for 3 seconds. A 9mm will do the same thing... Shoot a Ice pack on a lake.. That 9mm cxan stop forward movement and still have centripetal energy enough to run along the ground like a rabbit. Most times it just sits and spins for about 10-15 seconds in the ice.. There are youtube vids of both instances..ua-cam.com/video/FcvzQvIHeqU/v-deo.html
@BananaBalisticss Reported for spam Scams and fake accounts.
This episode was messy... and fun.
And after working with coroners and investigators (I do ID work on corpses), do not underestimate the 22 mini mag for it's deadliness. It hits a gang-banger sweet spot of concealability, cheap, and deadly.
It’s a crapshoot on what happens after impact. With all the potential variables. Safe to say getting shot at all is just bad. But the more I see of your testing with a .22 the more I respect the round. Thanks for all the work!!!!
check with hospitals that have treated 22 wounds and see what they say.
One need only look at one of the most famous shootings of all time to confirm that bullets can, indeed, ricochet inside the human body. No, they do not "bounce around" like a ping-pong ball, but they can certainly strike bone or another more dense region of the anatomy as they are passing through and redirect back into the person causing more damage than if they had just come to a stop or passed directly through.
Mark David Chapman (using a .38 Special, not a .22 LR to be sure) shot John Lennon four times in the back. Two hit his left shoulder, while the other two went through his back and through his left lung. One of those two exited Lennon's body, while the other ricocheted and was found lodged in Lennon's neck. All of this is confirmed by the coroner's report.
So, whether or not this is "Fudd Lore" depends on how you define "bounced around." If you mean a bullet hit a person and struck bone and changed directions multiple times then, yes, that would be "Fudd Lore." However, if you are only saying it is possible for a bullet to penetrate a person traveling in one direction, strike something, then ricochet or divert and travel back in another direction (while creating a wound channel the whole time), then that is definitely possible. It just depends on how you are defining "bounced around."
Been a fan for a while...but discovered this is attached to a giveaway too? Awesome. Glad you have become big enough to do one. Sign of success! Good stuff on this channel
.22 as not likely, but things like 9mm and .45 have absolutely been recorded of bouncing or deflecting off the scapular. It's one of the reasons being shot in the shoulder ends up being very lethal, the round enters doing "minor" damage then bounces off the shoulder blade into the chest cavity causing lethal damage. This applies to many pistol rounds and fragments of rifle calibers.
I STILL wouldn't want to be shot by a .22 LR - or anything else, for that matter. NOT my idea of a good time...
The truth of it is this: the human body is not a straight line. It has all kinds of portions of it that are rounded, in-motion, or otherwise not predictable that can allow a bullet to do all kinds of unexpected things within it. It won't ALWAYS do those things, but they can happen.
Critically, I'd think of it less as a 'bounce', and more of a 'ricochet', like off of a steel plate. It's just in this case, the ricochet happens while still inside a soft body, opening a second wound path, and potentially hitting important bits it wouldn't have on the first trip through.
I've personally seen an X-ray of a .22lr that went in at the left side of the ribcage, straight in front-to-back, and wound up in the pelvic bowl.
Magic bullets only work when fired from a book depository...
🤣🤣
...Magic bullets only work when fired from a book depository...
These were an Italian invention made to only be fired from 7 mm $7.95 mail order WW II surplus Carcano scope rifles.
It is the body that is magic, not the bullet. Gelatin isnt even a close approximation of a bodyl
Have u seen a 6.5 Swede round ? They’re like a long round nose surf board . They best designed rifle bullet to turn in flesh. U couldn’t design a bullet to yaw more if u tried well not literally but it’s something else
@@jefferyboring4410 ... They best designed rifle bullet to turn in flesh...
I saw a study comparison between the military .223, M-16 round and the 7.62 X 39, AK-47 round. They found that the .223 high velocity round did a through and through more often and the 7.62 which would dump more energy in the body by yawing and opening up a much wider wound cavity than the original diameter of the bullet. The original idea behind the .223 was that the 30-06 rounds that fed the M-1 Garand were large, heavy and not very accurate due to their heavy recoil which meant that the average foot soldier couldn't carry enough ammunition to effectively kill a lot of the enemy without having to be resupplied often. They went to the M-14 in Korea and Vietnam which was a switchable semi / full auto M-1 Garand. It still fired the 30-06 round which was still bulky, heavy and once described as the first shot being dead on, the second too high and everything after being anti-aircraft fire. The .223, on the other hand, was fast at 2,600 FPS, powerful for it's size, light enough for a foot soldier to be able to carry more and, with less recoil, more accurate. You can still kill an enemy soldier at distance with a well placed shot but if you didn't kill him, you only slowed him down but he could still be a less effective fighter so it would take more shots to put him down for good.
The truth is that ALL bullets ricochet when the conditions are right. A high powered rifle will tear through anything in the body in a more-or-less straight line while a lesser caliber has a higher chance of changing direction unexpectedly when encountering different geometries and densities of materials. This happens all the time with smaller calibers and has nothing whatsoever to do with the 22lr specifically.
Queue the most famous case of this in the 'magic bullet theory' lore here: Google if you aren't familiar with it.
I enjoyed the skit at the beginning. The demonstration convinced me of two things--the .22 LR is lethal, and humans are tough. The amount of damage inflicted on the simulated "bodies" and "heads" was impressive even when the velocities were low. Various studies on street shootings make the case that the .22 is not a "manstopper." No wonder Israeli assassins used the .22 rimfire. Donald Hamilton's fictional Matt Helm preferred the .22 as an assassin's tool. in 1906 a new small Browning pistol firing the .25 ACP hit the market in Europe, followed by the 1908 in the USA--while not a 12-gauge slug, the little .25 ACP has more capability than advertised today.
I lack the resources to duplicate your demonstration. Thanks for the show.
For the Sniper Subsonics they're definitely bad about tumbling out of pistols. They're better out of a rifle because they get some extra time to stabilize but depending on the rifle they may still not be great, I only have one rifle that it's worth running them in and while they don't tumble they're still not super accurate. If you want to shoot them (successfully) out of a shorter barrel you need one with a fast twist rate, I've seen 7-10" barrels for 10/22s with 1:9 twists that should do it (most Ruger .22 barrels that I've seen are 1:16)
I have to say, ergonomics and (apparent) recoil aside, the NAA mini revolver with the 60 grain load doesn’t seem to be half bad.
I personally can confirm that bullets bounce thanks to a nice souvenir I have on my shelf. Middle of Iowa, my 14yo youth season, and from about 300 yards, my dad missed his first shot at a deer down hill from us. Rather than running off after the first slug skipped off a few yards from it, the deer bounded only a dozen steps before turning around and looking broadside at us. My dad took a second shot, it ran all of a few steps, and dropped. We just sat there in disbelief initially expecting it to get back up. Dressing revealed a shattered rib just behind the heart at entry, a broken rib on the other side, and when I found the slug near the stomach, sure enough it had two distinct impact marks.
you are describing 2 different bullets. One went trough and through , the other one stayed in.
@@fahey5719 Oh, I get ya. The first bullet that landed several feet to the side must have taken a sharp, almost 90 degree turn after hitting the dirt, hit the exact same entry hole as the second round, and then evaporated. Or was it the second slug that hit exactly the same entry location since there was no exit wound? Or did one of the bullets perfectly navigate the digestive track and pop out the backside as to avoid detection? Anyway, your magic bullet version sounds so much more plausible than a simple bullet bounce🤣🤣🤣
Closest i have ever seen to a .22 "bouncing around" was a dude at the local gun show who had a loaded .22 pen gun in his pocket. It went off and hit the bone in his leg. It dug its way through his bone marrow and came out the back of his knee.
Great video 👍
Current Leo, have seen this multiple times with multiple calibers. Absolutely happens.
I lost a friend who took a new shooter out and was shot in the upper arm hit his humerus and went into his ribcage. Wouldn’t say it pinballed but it did ricochet.
Sorry for your loss.
What I was told 30 years ago, is they go in one side of a head then bounce around. Theory was they didn't have enough power to get out the other side.
Can it bounce? Sure. But you're more likely to see weird deflections in living tissue than a hard bounce.
And fragmentation. That's what is missing, fragmentation and pieces going in different directions making a mess.
Hey Banana, I would love to see your style of testing with the 8.6 blackout. 😮 .keep on keepin on brother
I know most people hear this "myth" and they think pin ball machine, but what meant by bounce is the major deflection that happens when it clips a rib; which is what makes it potentially more deadly. I know it's anecdotal, but when I was 12 my older brother accidentally shot me with a 22. The bullet hit my collar bone, deflected downward at about a 30 degree angle, hit the mammory artery about a half inch from my heart, went through my left lung, hit a rib in my back and started to go further down into my chest cavity before stopping. I spent 2 weeks in the hospital, had 2 chest tubes, a major surgery to repair the damage, and had to be resuscitated 3 times during the surgery. The ballistic investigator said that it had been a large round with shed it by it me, it would have passed right through and not hit anything vital or at worst been lodged in my shoulder blade. I've got the scares to tell the story and with an x-ray you can see the bullet and healed rib that it broke in back.
well, you shouldn't have gotten shot then.
Glad you made it man. What a story, and perfectly illustrates where this "myth" comes from. It's not a myth.
So the myth is actually just an over dramatic tale
It was great to meet Ms Banana. Please include her more often.
40-year LEO here. I worked one where a *ahem* 'portly' fellow got shot in the lower back above his right kidney, and the .25 ACP FMJ ran around to his navel between his hide and the nearest layer of muscle; it just tunneled along in the fat and popped out right in the belly button. I recovered it off the gurney they had him on. All the ER did was hose it out with saline and dress both holes.
For those who are not so fluent in innuendo, yeah, he was a fat-ass.
The story I remember hearing was of someone being shot with a .22 in the chest. Supposedly, the bullet hit an artery or punctured the heart and traveled in their blood vessels. The bullet was found in the leg.
Cool thing about these stories, they are probably true. Bad thing about these stories is that they are probably not repeatable. It is nearly impossible to recreate the exact circumstances around these events, so trying to verify by recreating is almost pointless. What we really are looking for in these sort of experiments is not confirmation of the specific event but rather confirmation of the possibility of the event, no matter how implausible.
Definitely appreciate the effort with what you had on hand and especially with the entertaining humor but:
1) Living bone & tissue, dead bone & tissue, imitation bone & tissue media, and substitute media for bone & tissue (whether living or dead) all react differently.
2) Most, if not all, bullets traveling through a body best will get one bounce at most usually and if lucky. Any more than that would usually be because freak chance with the situation "being just right" in regards to multiple factors.
3) Real tissue and bone (living or dead) is a unique and heterogenous media in structure and density that is further shaped by individual experience.
3) Additionally, the cross-section of a real torso consists of not a single homogenous medium between two layers of skin, muscle, and bone. There's multiple layers skin,one or more layers of adipose tissue of various depth and density, overlapping layers of interwoven/interlaced muscle fibers & connective tissue of varied depth/density, various extra connective tissues, cartilage, membranes, the various components/sections of the circulatory system, etc. that make up the exterior of the thorax and abdomen. Inside the thoracic and abdominal cavities within; there are more layers of adipose tissues, structural & supportive connective tissues, multiple organs (each of different heterogenous density, structure, composition, & cross-section) separated by an often tough exterior membrane, with deadspace between the different interior structures/organs. This highly-complex composite structural format adds the physics-based complications and effects of the bullet as it travels through various media with the added abrupt and sudden changes of transfering between different mediums (different organs, tissues, etc. with different densities, structures, compositions, etc.) with each having its own separate, again, often tough exterior membrane with deadspace between the exterior membranes of each.
4) Others have mentioned this, but the tendency of bullets to deform and "yaw" upon impact and as they travel/pencil/burrow/plow through their target, sometimes wildly, probably has been mistakenly used as added evidence of the "bouncing/ricocheting around" within the body.
5) Finally; there's also the orientation, geometry, path of travel, and the physics-based characteristics of the bullet and the path it travel through its target which determines the medias in the path of travel.
There are 5 official unifying principles/rules/tenets/theories of biology. But what applies here are what can be called the 2 unofficial, unwritten unifying principles/tenets/rules/etc. of biology:
#1) "Biology is messy." because compared to scientific fields of physics, chemistry, etc., biology is the one science were there is no such thing as "perfect", "absolute", "100% Logical", etc. because in biology; mistakes and choices occur that are opposite of logic, [A->B->C->..../1->2->3->....] and [1+2=3] do not necessarily end up always being correct/the result, and there are always outliers and a margin of error.
#2) "Shit Happens." because biology is the only science truly at the mercy of randomness, pure chance, the other sciences, and unrelated aspects of the world around it. As an example, "there could be a nest of baby storks in a dead tree in a swamp that are the once-in-a-million-years winners of the gene lottery and possess the most absolutely perfect combination genes/genetic traits and tendencies that will shape the future of their species and its evolutionary path and lead to the penultimate perfectly-adpated species of stork. But all of a sudden, before the fledgling storks could mature go out into the world and make that possible future into reality, a thunderstorm develops and rolls through that area where the swamp is and the dead tree with that nest of helpless fledgling future wonder storks which suddenly get insta-deep-fried out of existence and out of the gene-pool snuffing out that possible future all because of a random twist of fate which those fledgling storks had no chance against and had no part in.
Back in San Diego in 1977 my buddy heard a sound in his living room and went to investigate (unarmed). The burglar shot him face on in the right chest, it deflected 90 degrees up and stopped just under the skin between his neck and shoulder joint where you could see the bulge under the skin, but didn't exit.
However, it wasnt a 25 or a 22 but was 380 HP that didn't even expand (the jackets on a lot of ammo back then was too thick so pretty common). The bullet went through his shoulder and ricocheted upward off his shoulder blade.
Note that although the bullet didn't come anywhere near his shoulder joint he had lots of pain in it ever after (some tyoe of hydraulic shock? NOT saying hydrostatic, 380s too slow for that, but hydraulic shock happens at subsonic velocities).
I remember a guy getting drunk and shooting himself in the belly with a 22. Somebody called the cops, but he refused to go to the hospital, so they left. (Today they would assault him, or maybe kill him). They came back a few hours later after some of the alcohol had worn off, and he decided he should go to the hospital.Not sure the bullet 'bounced' inside him, but it did stay in him, until a doctor removed it. He survived.
Talk of oranges reminds me off a book in my elementary school library. (pretty sure they wouldn't allow such a thing these days). The book had some photos of bullets taken with high speed cameras. One photo showed an orange exploding as a 22 passed through it. I wish I knew the name of that book! This was in the 60s.
With lighter bullets, I'm sure it's more a case of the bullet being deflected rather than bouncing. As an old combat vet, I know the 5.56 caused a lot of weird wounds where as the 7.62x39 plowed straight (at least straighter) through.
Haha. good stuff! Now there are recorded cases of 22LR forehead shots where the projectile entered and followed the contour of inner skull and entered the spinal canal where it then stopped inches to a FOOT in the spinal column. FRIGGN CRAZY.
I heard an old guy at the gun show tell me this recently. Love to see tests like this
He also try and sell you a poor condition SKS for $2k?
That’s a dense piece of 22 science and surely the best i’ve ever seen. Bravo Banana
The .22 rimfire bullet being made of relatively soft lead hitting a hard bone can deflect quite readily. On occasion that deflection can be tangential. Bodies are not a continuous fluid, like gel or water, so the course of the deflection is not maintained by a "supporting" medium. If the bullets tumbles, multiple redirections may occur upon striking additional objects, especially bone(s). The repeatability of any of the odd deflections is likely impossible as the "targets" are uniquely constructed, although generally similar, and the way the bullets approach the target are unique as well. There is likely insufficient energy and space for a 22 rimfire bullet to "make laps" or "ping pong" inside a skull or torso, but one certainly could take a turn and ping off once.
Your tests, as always, are interesting and informative, and many of your "deviations" are extremely entertaining.😂
👍👍
LOL Medical examiner and 22 cal shooting victim...you are not.
My very first murder case as a cop involved a guy shot in the abdomen by his "wife", (common law). It took a while to even locate the entry hole; closed back up with almost no blood, but he was stone dead. The Medical Examiner found that the bullet had passed through the heart after bouncing off the pelvis. This was 1974, but I remember that one.
The Paul Harrell meat target was being resurrected there, a great homage to a greatly missed man.
Excellent video as always.
Water does not provide any structure to resist the bullets deviation. Tissue has structure and would react quite differently, hence why the gel didn't bounce back but the water did. The bullets can literally fall through water, but not gel or tissue.
Lighter bullets don’t bounce around but often follow the path of least resistance.
I was always told to they can bounce around in your head but that's about it
That's why the ole timey mobsters used 22s.
I heard that it goes in, then races around the inside of the skull like a hamster on a wheel. 😉
@WEKM I'm sure if you could get the right angle any smaller caliber would do that
@@Atomic_Muppet The .22 was Mossad's caliber of choice for up close and personal hits.
@@Atomic_Muppetthey used them because they were cheap, quiet, effective, and didn't exit or cause a mess. Ol' tyme gangsters used knives and looked you in the eye.
The variety of comments about this subject should be interesting. ❤
Cops will have the only answer I'll depend on. Knowing several cops in my life, knowing doctors and nurses and what the effect of these 22 bullets do in the actual body gives me the accurate answer already. But still a highly scientific video Double B. 🎈🥳🎈
The density of muscle, water percentage mass of organs vs that of contents of the intestines and the space between skin and body cavities tells me that 22's will CERTAINLY swim in the path of least resistance. 22's do NOT go in a straight line in human bodies, even forgetting about bone. They're too cheaply made to be predictable in an area of diff masses.
Good ole fashion fun'r'tianment , would have been funny if it was still bouncing to emerge when you check the exit side.
A relative of mine was shot at point blank range in the head during a robbery w/ a .22. Fortunately, it was a glancing shot so it didn't penetrate his skull, but it rode along his skull under his scalp and finally stopped near the occipital ridge. The docs decided to leave it there rather than risk surgery. I don't know that that qualifies as 'bouncing around', but the test .22's didn't circumnavigate the beef ribs, either, yet it - or something like it - happens.
I heard the bounce story mostly associated with the skull where the .22 had enough power to penetrate one side of the skull but would bounce off the other side or follow the contour of the skull. The rib bounce doesn’t really seem to make much sense.
Got a whitetail with some M193 before and the round came out at a 90° angle. Deflection is wild
Loved the ER intro with Mrs. Banana. You should've had NurseWife issue you a roll of tan stretchy gauze (flex-gauze?) to sandwich the gel/water jugs/tenderized vittles. Very interesting results. Demolition Ranch might like this video.
I think in a I shot Tv video it did bounce of a bit in a skull analog!
Maybe the roundness of a skull can made a difference as well!
to do it 'properly', you could try use a bunch of plastic bags, filled with orange segments, grapes and other stone fruits sorta suspended in a medium of gelatine. It would be more representative of an actual abdominal cavity, because most of our organs are softer than ballistic gelatin, which is supposed to be some kind of average (I think it's closer to flexing muscle tissue). And a nice call back to Paul Harrel's oranges etc to better represent lung alveoli, ribs etc. RIP Paul
I know that when I was shooting a steel drum burn barrel with my grandfather that occasionally I would hear the bullet spinning inside the drum similar to a BB in a ton can. Gun and ammo I don't remember, range was thirty feet or so.
🤔🤔 normally im not one to argue even with science but from experience, videos and pictures seen. Early 223 during the war in the middle east had some kind of inconsistencies that one in five would bounce around. In basic they showed us videos of impact(entrance) on target, target falls. They do bdar and assessments and see the entrance and no exit, non edited video, after five minutes of assessing target see the bullet protruding from the inner thigh. An autopsy then verified the bullet bounced internally. And now quality is so much better than before. Yet again just my experience and 2 cents.
The Mythbusters of Ballistics, a lot of work you did here and we appreciate the humor with which you delivered it!!!
Possibly your best video yet, and i really wnjoy your videos. Kudos for admitting you were "wrong(ish)".
Always good info, enjoyed, thanks
I swear to dog, the amount of people crying, "It didn't bounce, exactly, it deflected! No, wait, it followed a curve!".
The point is: these rounds are perfectly capable of ending up where no one would expect them and causing additional damage along the way. No amount of word-wrangling will negate that.
Actually if I remember from training the 5.56 can deflect down bones causing hydroshock.
You're thinking of the 6.5mm. Those bounce around, exit and move over then continue on. Only the 6.5s are "magic bullets"
Carcano intensifies.
That testing would be very interesting to see if you did a collaborate with ballistic high speed.
Looking forward to more of this series.
Woah. Brave of you to stand so close to the target. 22s are known to bounce right back through the entry wound with double the energy !
Slow round nosed bullets can and often will turn and follow the tough membranes that separate muscle groups.
I defended a guy in a murder trial in 2014 who had shot a guy a few times with a .22. The testimony from the experts and medical people were fascinating. Those little bullets went inside the guy and took all sorts of crazy paths through his body. It was hard to believe some of what they did if I hadn't seen it for myself.
Show proof
Where I live - one hunter was killed recently because the bullet from other hunter changed direction inside the animal (maybe 10-20 degrees), came out and hit him. That wasn't 22 thou.
I remember one old vid from Demolition Ranch where Matt shot into the ground with 50 cal, then realized that bullet did almost 180 in there. I remember seeing at least two more vids where he experimented with ricochets - sending bullets down curved pipes and finding out how many plates one bullet could bounce off of (10+).
Moral of the story - once bullet hits something on an slight angle, it definitely has probability to change direction. Here the angle was mostly 90.
I've seen several cyclone type pellet/bullet traps in use - bullet enters its side, on small angle and then makes whatever number of round trips in there, settling into a container below. Ribcage is pretty much like that trap...
@@Rusonekox9 Being a witness to something is a form of proof.
..so you defended a murderer?
@@MilesLong556x69 Have you heard of these guys called defense attorneys?
For the uppercut being the most devastating 22 hollow point, they sure do suck. I have yet to see a video where one actually opened in gel like it should. That mini mag produced way more energy dump....
I have never seen a person with a flat skull. Everyone I have seen has a curved skull front and back which may offer some redirection of the bullet.
Those super snipers are amazing 22lr. Hard to find anymore.
Fudd bustin is gonna be an awesome series!! Please make more of these style videos!
Channeling your inner Paul Harrell.
😊ive always heard of .22 bouncin in skull which point out some flaws in your testing. Skull is curved on both sides, and shot most likely would not be perpendicular too it (while i doubt a pinball effect i would expect a return bounce wound channel with tumbling wouldnt be out of the questi9n)
I saw this phenomenon a lot of the forensic shows, with skulls and 22s "bouncing around" no, but some backwards momentum. Maybe the concave shape of the surface has more to do with it. [Grumbles: "mountain spring water doesnt simulate brain matter!"]
@BananaBalisticssss yay me
The 60 grain SSS really needs a fast twist like 1:9 which is probably why they are deviating.
My dad was shot in the front of his thigh with a .22LR. The round hit his femur, bounced off the bone, and ended up in his hamstring.
I've never heard the myth of the bullet bouncing around scrambling up a ribcage, but the rounds can definitely bounce off a bone and do weird shit.
That sounds like it redirected, not bounced.
Deflected and tracked. Not bounced.
Show proof
@@sinisterthoughts2896 That sounds like semantics to me. Call it whatever you want, it didn't break the bone and curved in a strange circular way around it afterwards.
@@Rusonekox9 How would you like that? He's been dead for about ten years. You can believe it or not.
I think Jell-O would be a good substitute to simulate brain tissue. The problem would be getting clear Jell-O.
Never heard that about the 22lr, but I have been hearing about the 25acp bouncing around in people since the 90s
I picked up a few things at MidwayUSA today!
Soft lead bullets and curved bones will send them going in unpredictable paths, but it isnt going to be a pinball machine.
@BananaBalisticsss sugmuhdikbot
Complaint....... there you have one. Paul would be proud.