David Hardy - Leyland Australia Designer | SHANNONS DESIGN TO DRIVEWAY | Ep 5
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- Опубліковано 11 лис 2022
- “Revealed: The sabotaged Italian job on the Leyland P76!”
After 40 years, everyone seems to have a story about the Leyland P76!
David Hardy is one of the few remaining men who were at the birth of the Leyland P76 and regrettably at the end also. We think after watching this episode, you will look differently at the Leyland P76!
The P76 and its sports coupe-hatchback Force 7, promised to redefine what Australian new car buyers could expect in a new family car and performance motoring. However, since the 1973 Wheels Car of the Year winner was launched, it has effectively been shrouded in mystery, the butt of many jokes and remains largely misunderstood and an unknown story. Until now.
Sworn to secrecy at the time, with a promise never to share, David Hardy reveals how his boss believed the initial Australian design concept for the P76 were sabotaged by the Italian design studio responsible for tweaking the final designs of the P76.
The Italians had their own version of how Australian cars should look and a cash strapped BMC in the UK needed sales quicker than Leyland Australia could build them. The all new P76 Australian sedan was approved based on only quarter scale models not full sized clays! Leyland Australia had the Ford Falcon, Holden Kingswood and Chrysler Valiant in their sights.
Initially, demand for the P76 far exceeded supply. Leyland then rushed the assembly process as the first of the P76s to come off the assembly line, which suffered from poor build quality and ongoing product reliability issues, which resulted in the Leyland P76 being labelled a lemon.
Fast forward and Leyland terminated the P76 and Force 7 programs. Then, not long after, Leyland left Australian soil.
David wanted to explain what happened with this much misunderstood Australian made car and set the record straight.
Did the car kill the Company or did the Company kill the Car?
Watch and make up your own mind.
“Shannons are proud to commission this landmark series to celebrate the rich design heritage of the cars we all know and love. While Shannons plays a key role as Australia’s leading insurer for motoring enthusiasts, we also believe it is very important to preserve our automotive history for future generations” said Mark Behr, Executive Manager, Marketing for Shannons.
#designtodriveway #shannons #leylandp76 - Авто та транспорт
Brilliant series, love the behind the scenes stories without the marketing whitewash
Right? It's nice not to listen to marketing hype, and to hear the real story about how the car came about.
My Pop ordered a P76 a few days before Leyland shut the line; never got his deposit back (so he told us) and ended up buying a Brown on Brown 302 Falcon wagon- which is still in the family with 300,000+km on the clock and used at least once a week
A friend had a 4.4L V8 4-speed back in the 1980s, such a great car for the day. Great power and handling, HUUUGE, comfortable, and very light! Very wrongly-maligned car.
Such a shame the Force 7 never went into production.
Indeed they had some very good points but at the time and later they always appeared wierd and ugly next to the other stuff. Today a car that was so different in appearance would have just not done as well rather than getting slammed. However the journos at the time were so far up the other manufactures digestive tracks they wouldn't give it a fair shake. They Indeed deserved better.
@@dazaspc not that different now, they suck up with advertising revenue.
Hi! Thanks for the great bit of Australian automotive history. Like David, I also worked at BMC/Leyland Australia. I started as a jig and fixture draughtsman and moved up to being a production planner/engineer. My time covered the change from Austin 1800 Mk 1 to Mk 2, Morris 1500 and Nomad (as an aside, do you know why the wagon version of the Morris 1500 was called the Nomad? Well, it was thought that no mad bastard would ever buy one 😮😂😊). I worked on the replacement for the 1800; the Tasman and Kimberly. These could have been great cars (but I'll get to that later). I also worked on the upcoming Leyland Marina (in fact I actually bought one of these - the worst car I have ever owned followed by an LC Tirana). I was also working on suspension and brake components for P76. I did a "job" for David's Experimental (design) Studio and was able to see a hand built P76 sitting in the middle of the studio. I went home that night and told my wife that I needed to find a new job before Leyland went broke and all my colleagues were out in the job market. David mentions problems with the production of the P76's body which I didn't know about. But there were earlier problems with the manufacture of the V8 engine blocks and the automatic gearbox housings. We had a very innovative method of manufacture devised but the preliminary/trial machine tool (developed by Repco in Melbourne) was smashed as it was being delivered to the works. This put the whole project at risk and we were forced to acquire the transfer machine tooling from Buick in the USA. (The P76 V8 is a derivative of the Rover SD1 V8 which is a derivative of a 3.5 ltr. V8 developed by Buick.
This was just typical of everything we did at BMC/Leyland Aust. We simply never had the funds, resources or time to properly develop or products. P76 was a mistake from the very get-go. Trying to compete with Holden, Ford and Chrysler was just plain stupid. IMHO, we should have moved up market. We had available to us the Triumph 2500 and 1750 Dolomite. The Dolomite's 4 cyl. Engine is half of a Triumph Stag 3.0 ltr. V8. We could have developed a local model of the Triumph 2500 with the Stag V8 and the Dolomite as a two model strategy. We would have been able to charge more for them and make them more cheaply. Ah! What could have been.
Enough of this, thanks again for this video and for the series.
Regards,
Peter
You were going to mention the Tasman and Kimberley. I had an automatic Kimberley (single carb version) for about 18 months starting 1982. Bought it in a thousand pieces after the previous owner presumably found out how much simple things like gasket sets cost... Eventually broke a piston and that was the last straw so down the tip it went. The steering on those things was so heavy! Got a HQ after that and the steering felt light as a feather the first time i drove it. (they weren't, trust me). Also like you I had an LC, both a four and a six. I tell people they were to ergonomics like Picasso's Weeping Woman painting is to beauty.
Interesting story about Kimberly and Tasman; they had a major mechanical flaw right from day one. On the day they were launched a North Shore (Sydney) dealer picked up his first allocated car from the Zetland plant. Crossing back over the Harbour Bridge the car broke a rod, putting a hole in the side of the block and it was stranded in the middle of the Bridge. Turns out the mating surfaces of the con rod and cap was NOT at 90 degrees to the con rod bolt holes. A hypothesis I proved by riding around on the circular rod machining transfer machine for several days physically measuring the angle of the bolt holes.
Again, we never had the time or budget to fully develop the car.
During my time there the Mk 2 Austin 1800 was the best car we made. I remember after the London to Sydney Marathon there were maybe 15 to 20 “replica” cars, standard 1800s but painted red with a white roof and matt black bonnet and real Minilite wheels. They had been used for dealer promotions and were then sold to staff. Ahhh! If only I had the money.
I did buy an MG Midget (pale blue with chrome wire wheels) while I was there. It (that model) had a terrible water leak problem and I sold it after 12 months (I purchased a Renault R10 - a fabulous little car).
That’s enough I guess. I could go on forever.
Perhaps one last P76 story. We had to get pre-production V8 engine blocks machined for prototype and testing duties. These were done by the Lithgow Small Arms factory and back then cost us $15,000 per block!
Regards,
Peter
David I have seen a side on version of your design for the p76 , its a medium sized car similar in side to the triumph 2500 or rover p6. Its a fantastic clean design very bmw'esq. Wish they had chose that one. from a 30 year p76 driver.
@@peteranderson7497 I worked in the maintenance section at the Lithgow SAF and took great interest in the Leyland V8 as the development work was being carried out.
Thank you for this great video. Yes good designers don't always get the recognition they deserve. Pity he could not have continued with other manufacturers.
Thank you
I knew a few people who had P76's, and they all loved their cars. Pity about the Force 7, could have been exciting, I've seen the one in the Birdwood Mill museum, nice looking car.
Interesting to hear about the design process of the P76. When they first came out it didn't appeal to me, but I couldn't have told you exactly why, so it was interesting to learn about the shaping of the wheel arches and how that affects the stance of the car. It does look top-heavy and not properly planted on the road surface.👍
No mention of the P76 Wagon or the P82 vehicle range under development. Or the V6 engine that was being testing to replace the straight six..
there was a brown force 7 in the mechanics institute in Ultimo Sydney back in the late 70s early 80s..it was nice lo0king car in the flesh
The P76 continued to be built in New Zealand until 1976 after the Australian factory closed in 1974.
Yes. This is illustrates that the car had a great future, even with the oil crisis. In fact it is sad, that the P76 Australian operation was not sold as a going concern to some savvy investor.
@@davexb6595 almost went to Toyota
Thought they were all left over CKD Kits from Leyland Australia and screwed together in New Zealand!
@@mervynstent1578 Yes. That's correct. Assembled in NZ. I'm not sure how many were actually kits because the Australian operation was simply shutdown. Probably more like a whole bunch of left over parts that they had to sort out. Possibly they had a few NZ parts made to fill in the gaps and to meet local content regulations. I don't know.
My point is that these would have kept selling in Australia if Leyland had sold the Australian operation as a going concern.
I had an Austin A40 Farina, Fastback and a P76 V8, Wolsley etc etc. The P76 was far and above the most advanced car for its time. Way ahead of anything else at the time. Yes I had Fords/Holdens/Chryslers of that era as well. The Govt/Unions were hell bent on making sure the P76 died. There is an interesting story on that highlighting who did what etc. Such a pity the P76 didnt live on.
The government is still anti Anglo-Saxon to this day.
This is an exceptional series of docos. Loved every one so far. Keep them coming please.
The P76 is a fascinating but tragic story - please make more docos about these kinds of curiosities, what-ifs and failures. It's always interesting to look at unseen prototypes - for instance the work that went into replacing the Valiant at the end of the 70s (how about a doco about this) - or the WB Kingswood. And what about the Chrysler Centura or the Austin Kimberley as obscure chapters of Australian automotive history that deserve some retrospective attention?
This series is just plain bloody awesome. The best insight yet to how the cars we grew up with were born. I always am looking forward to the next one and yes this episode does change the way I think about that car.
Another awesome chapter of *"Design to Driveway"!* I've heard of the Leyland Australia P76.
The notion of a V12-powered Force 7V was never bound in reality, however in 1974/75 we had John McCormack running serious business with Elfin's MR5/MR6 and the Repco-Leyland F5000 V8 engine ... there was potentially a real prospect of developing a Repco-modified Leyland Force 7R hatchback to contest touring car racing against the General's own Repco-modified Holden Torana SL/R5000 L34 sedans.
What a brilliant series. As a 'pom' and child of the 70s, the P76 was always this mythical beast from down under that until the internet, we couldn't really find anything to read about. I'll enjoyed David's account of the car's development and will be watching the rest of the films for sure.
I love the big flares, makes it easy to put big wheels too. I actually really like the design and always have.
back as an apprentice Fitter and Machininst, my Dad's best mate needed his 6 cylinder P76 engine overhauled as it was burning oil like crazy.
Thought he was just wasting money on this car that was just a running joke by all. Pulled the engine down, it was just the rings were really soft. New rings and gaskets and off it went. Drove it back to his place when all the work was done, and seriously, it was like driving a Rolls Royce. The engine was smooth and reasonably powerful, the rack and pinion steering was sharp, the Top Loader gearbox was strong, PBR Brakes were always good on all Aussie cars.
I felt the P-76 was strongly maligned by the fawning motoring press, to whom all Euro cars were absolutely brilliant, all Jap was crap, and Australian quality was barely agricultural. And as history has shown, Jap is superlative, Australian can be excellent and European cars are superlative until they break down - and they will...and they will cost plenty!!
Yes it seems to only be us people from the automotive trade that know euro cars are oil burning unreliable rubbish.
Some of those early drawings actually look pretty good.
We need more of these episodes.
What a great show. I had two V8s, an auto and a manual. Fantastic cars. Truth is that a nationalised company cannot do this sort of thing profitably, and that this problem was magnified from 1968 when the ailing BMC was taken over. It should be said that JRA built other vehicles here until about 1995, similar to the P76 in that good parts were brought in from all over the world and built into something uniquely Australian and very functional.
Would have been interesting if Leyland survived long enough to adapt the Force 7 front clip and rear tail lights for use on the sedan. Could have been an effective facelift.
I only owned one Leyland and it was something of an orphan. The old Moke Californian. With the 1273 motor it was really nippy and the front wheel drive and independent suspension gave it brilliant handling. I drove it everywhere including off road. Sadly by the time I could afford something like the Force 7 the company was long gone. The only reminder of what might have been are two Force 7 badges from the sell-off of Leyland memorabilia.
Still got 2 pees, My dads which was my first car and a custom v8 version :) Great handling units.
Great o be able to bring these stories to life and hear from the people who were there firsthand.
A very interesting video. The reasons for the P-76 failure to sell given in this video are spot on. Too many short cuts in tooling up and manufacturing leading to poor quality, and styling errors.
But there was another factor - the use of the Buick/Rover alloy V8. Back then many buyers bought Holdens, Falcons, or Valiants because they had cast iron engines - seen as indestructable compared to alloy engines in other brands.
As far as Leyland developing its own V-12 for the Force-7 - only in their wildest dreams. Back then (late 60's to early 70's), there was nothing like today's highly sophisticated computer modelling running on workstations considerably more powerful than a 1970's super mainframe. So coming up with a new engine involved repeated construction of successive prototypes and 1000's of hours dyno testing. That cost $millions - something only the large profitable companies could do.
Even today cast has its place and not as a boat anchor .
You're forgetting the 6 Cylinder OHC engine that was the base engine in the P76. The E series 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines that Leyland Australia adapted from east - west to north - south usage in the Marina and P76. The all alloy V8 was optional. I always thought there was too much of a gap in engine capacity between the 6 and V8. 2.6 and 4.4L respectively in the P76. They should have offered the original 3.5L V8 as well as it sat in the same region of engine capacity as Holden, Ford, and Chrysler with engines from 3.0 - 3.5L as base engines. The 2.6L six was an under powered dog of an engine and it's previous lineage was mostly in unreliable commercial flops in Australia. Motor mechanics loathed working on E series engines.
@@erroneouscode I should have mentioned the 6's. But the market that the P76 was aimed at liked V8's. Holden's and Falcon's base 6's were aimed at fleet owners, with low compression head options so they could run on cheap fuel. I don't think fleet owners would have risked buying P76's as many had bad experiences with Marinas - absolutely dreadful cars. A large company I worked for bought a fleet of Marinas - they were so bad they were got rid of within a year.
You are right about the gap. Holden's V8 then was the 253 - only 4.14 litres. Falcon had an optional larger 6 - the 250.
@@keithammleter3824 Memory might be fading but by "Cheap fuel" are you referring to standard vs super fuel? Because as far as I recall standard was gone by 1975 so there was only one fuel grade.
Holden in 75 brought out the HJ and if I recall correctly they dropped using the 173 (2850) motor as previously available in the HQ series. So, 202 or 3300, 3.3 would have been the only 6 cylinder option. Ford had the 200 or 3.3 as well as the 4.1 250. Chrysler had the 3.5, 4.0, and 4.3 6's. Yes, Australia loved their V8's but they were never the main stay or bread and butter of the industry. The 6 cylinder models were and fleet and government sales were crucial to profitable /sustainable production. All Australian car makers were after that market as well as the average buyer. V8 motors in family sedans are a niche market and never the main one. Numbers sold of 6's vs V8's in all Australian produced cars would reflect that. IMHO I don't think that the Rover based engine being all alloy had any significant influence on buyers not choosing the V8 engine. The average Australian motorist of that time would not have had leanings one way or another. Most would not even know where or what a dipstick was and how to check it, and still don't.
I had a few Marina's in the late 70's to mid 80's when they were almost worthless. I had a thing for British cars at that time and had many Mini's, Morris 1100's etc etc. The engines were horrid, and the front suspension was prehistoric with poor dampening and dangerous understeer. I once had a 4 door Marina I bought sight unseen from a used car dealer in Melbourne and had it transported to where I live in the country. I bought it dirt cheap with low K's purely to pull the engine for a Marina coupe I had that needed another engine. The car sat around for months without it's engine but was in too good a condition to scrap. So, I got to thinking what engine I could possibly fit up to the Borg Warner 35 auto that Leyland fitted to the Marina's and P76's. Eventually I fitted an L20 engine from a Nissan Bluebird by making up engine mounts and swapping the bell housing, torque converter from Leyland BW35 items to Nissan BW35 items. Dead easy and really transformed the car.
In doing that conversion it was quite evident that Leyland Australia could have, and should have fixed the horrid front suspension on the Marina and they could have fitted the 3.5 or 4.4V8 into the Marina as easy as raiding their parts bin because of their use of the BW35 auto in the P76 behind the 6 as well as the V8. Imagine the power to weight ratio of that combo compared to a Torana.
@@erroneouscode : In talking about the P76 - marketed from 1973, and the Marina, marketed in Australia from 1972, we are talking about the early 1970's.
At that time, service stations sold "standard" (low octane) and "super" (high octane), so retail there was just those two grades. However large fleet owners could buy a third option in some states, essentially standard without lead - a slightly lower octane rating still, and a slightly lower price. You may remember retail petrol back then (both standard and super) was red in colour from the lead tetra-ethel. Fleet petrol was colourless to slightly yellow, and available from BP and Caltex. Not sure about Shell. The minor brands didn't have it.
In talking about the early 1970's cars we are talking about car buyers mostly born late 1930's to early 1950's - they were (the men anyway) were mostly car nuts to some extent, and certainly most would have known where the dipstick was. And the other one in the auto transmission. They grew up in a time when there were no PC's, no internet, no mobile phones etc to distract them. We got a better education in schools back then too, science classes more likely to cause boys to think about how things work.
I can't think of any way I can easily find out what fraction of Holden/Falcon/Valiant were V8's, but I do remember them being common, though not in the base models (ie ordinary Falcon vs Falcon 500 or Fairmont, Holden Belmont vs Kingswood). Dealers certainly pushed them. I recall going to buy a new Fairmont. At the time the 250 6 was standard and 2 V8's were optional. I decided the 6 met my needs. My partner was lead footed and I wanted to slow her down and save a bit of petrol. The salesman spent 5 minutes explaining the benefits of a V8. I said I wanted the 6. He gave me a test drive - in a V8. I said I wanted a 6. He spent another 6 or 8 minutes explaining the benefits of a V8. I said I wanted a 6. He said I could have a V8 in 2 days, but a 6 would require ordering from the factory and would take 3 to 4 weeks. I said I wanted a 6. He looked fed up, but wrote up what I wanted. It actually arrived in 4 days.
That salesman must have been under firm instructions to push V8's.
I remember my local news agent bought one new. It was chocolate brown with pale tan interior. He drove that P76 for 20 years until rust killed it. Back in the heyday it stood out from the Kingswoods & Falcons of the day. I can understand the flared wheel arches as they were the first to rust on that car.
If Leyland back in the day was making money, I would liked to have seen a panel van & a ute version of the P76. I reckon the platform & the driveline would have seen a number of body styling through the 80's.
A station wagon was in the works and presumably a ute would have been next. I think it would have lent itself well to a ute - although they probably would have had to offer some feature not standard on a Falcon, Holden or Valiant in order to win enough market share.
I have heard that one of the design requirements of the P76 was that you could drop a 45 gallon drum into the trunk and shut the lid. This was because of the criticism of their smaller models for lack of trunk room. An important feature for farmers and owners in rural areas. This may account for the awkward trunk lid design.
And how easy would it have been to remove a full 45 gallon drum? It was an urban myth, just a way of describing how large the boot was.
@@saneman8147 You would need some kind of hoist mechanism. That is why the trunk lid opened a full 90 degrees, to clear the hoist.
I actually can't wait to hear about the au falcon, awesome aerodynamics, could have looked better lol
My personal hilight of the series
Just goes to show how important the Australian domestic input of the Australian motor industry is and was. , It's the dedication of employees to dream and develop an idea. The facilities to make it happen. I marvel at the p76 wooden pattern s of the engine block, inlet and sump sitting in a pattern makers shed as good as the day they were carved. I appreciated my P 76 executive , wish I never sold it. Like my VH valiant Pacers or that Ex police VH commodore V8. The molds for the JWF Milano. But one story that must be told is that of Elfin.
another incredible designer and history told. Thanks so much!
The P76 certainly has grown on me.
& that FORCE 7... coorrrrr!
Love this series except the music makes it sound like its a funeral instead of a celebration of the Aussie car industry. Just saying....
Should have mentioned the P76 Wagon.
Only one production prototype was produced out of that.
@@BlairSauer Odd how history seems to get blurred. I can recall a write up in a magazine pre internet days where there were at least two body shells mentioned/pictured. The 2nd one was more incomplete, but they hadn't completed functionality of tailgate, tailgate glass, and mechanism to raise and lower on either. These in strict sense would have been hand built 'pre production prototypes'. I haven't heard of what happened to them in decades.
Always loved the p76
I have been lucky enough to sit in a Force 7V coupe. I think they would have been something special, if only they'd made it into production.
I thought the Italians were supposed to be the best car designers in the world. They really made a mess of the P76. What a shame.
I bought a Country Cream Executive V8 P76 as my first car in 91', second hand of course, with around 40,000 miles, in mint condition. All my mates had Holden's and Fords, yet the P76 got more looks than theirs. The only problem was finding parts at that time so I succumb to HQ Holden's. Dare to be Different, Anything but Average.
Just cottoned onto this. Great series, beautifully produced.
Sadly, the company did in fact kill the car. 🚙 💨 😢
Evan Green drove the P76 Rally Car, Evan wrote the 160MPH Super Cars Article that caused the Super Car Scare. Evan been a Car guy but he caused the Biggest Car Blow up in Australian Automotive History. Harry Firth never spoke to Evan again
Loving this series
My grandad bought one when I was a kid
White with a blue roof only. A six cylinder but I thought it was a great car 👍👍
So what about the P77 and P82? Mark Cassarchis? Marina?
Love the P76's. We had a family one in the mid-seventies and I've owned two of them since.
They were a brilliant car, way ahead of their time.
On a different note, they shouldn't have made the silly claim about the huge boot that could hold a 44 gallon drum. That was true but it was nothing special. My TE Cortina wagon could hold THREE in the back, and that's a smaller vehicle.
What a terrific series and what a lost opportunity
Wish Shannon’s showed David’s Fridges & Cook Top designs after Leyland Australia closed down!
Interesting design change from designing automobiles!
Yet again we could've had something great. Yet again those that thought they knew better didn't.
Funny thing is, I can't afford one now 😄
Truck on.
🤟😎👍🚛🚛🚛
I am sure they made more 4.4 V8's than they built cars to take them. I can remember seeing new 'crate' engines sitting in dealer pare parts and show rooms for quite a few years and they still pop up from time to time. I have VW type III square back with a leyland V8...!.
It unfortunate not everyone can be winners, timing I reckon was off P76 it could ended Holden in 80’s? Interesting the workers were blame for quality of P76 n not surprised with sabotage n maybe UK Leyland would have known this? Biggest Question I would put Hardy, did Leyland Australia have hot mini in the plan?
Great story. Thank you
I think MIchelotti improved it actually, especially in profile. The wheel arches don't worry me but there was something not quite resolved about the front and rear. The Force 7V, on the other hand, was perfect. I owned number 4 off the production line (actually registered as an Austin because the P76 name was still secret at that point!) and it was trouble free, apart from little bits of trim coming loose and having to be pressed back on. They should have stuck with the Austin 1800's excellent trim standard instead of trying to tack on cheap little strips of chrome and veneer.
It was just fantastic to drive, way ahead of the Holden/Falcon/Valiant and much more economical. They took twenty years to catch up. If the P76 had survived, it would have given them a run for the money and they knew it. It was said that Ford was sabotaging some of the supply chain, creating parts shortages. Evan Green found some internal memos from Holden to their dealers telling them that Holden couldn't beat the P76 technologically but their sales people should focus on bad-mouthing Leyland. I think the P76 caused Holden to have a radical rethink and led them to introduce the Commodore design from Germany. The three Australian competitors must have breathed a great sigh of relief when Leyland Australia closed manufacturing.
Always wondered what was up with the wheels.
Lost opportunity
Brilliant car before its time
The force 7 was and is a wonderful car design....would have made leyland a fortune and sold like hot cakes
The story of the P76 is really the story of Australia's automotive industry. First we cow tow to the imperialists in Britain and the US dictating what can be made under licence in Australia, and then they also decide whether it is a financially viable proposition. Same with Mitsubishi, Toyota and VW, even Peugeot. It always astounds me that a tiny country like Sweden can produce two home grown cars with such a tiny population, and yet Australia always seems to be waiting to be told what they can and can't do.
The problem with the Force 7 is that it didn't have common body panels with the P76. And I am starting to think this video hints at why that was. This was a problem because it meant the Force 7 was expensive to produce. I imagine the volume sales would have been in a station wagon and ute version of the P76. It makes you wonder if a new model would have changed the flares, and released a wagon, ute and coupe with as many common parts as possible. They would have also been forced to do what they could to improve fuel efficiency due to the oil crisis but they were in a better position to do that than the competition at that time.
What I'm getting at is that, in a parallel universe, if the P76 had been sold off as a going concern to some investors, then I like to think about what they would have needed to do to get enough volume to be sustainable in the long term. Apparently, one of their problems, was that their rapidly organised assembly line was too short to be efficient. I understand that they also had a lot of issues with their Australian parts suppliers, which would have needed to come to the party to reduce costs. They would also have had to look at exports (not just New Zealand) to raise the volumes. For example, they might have explored some arrangement with Buick for a LHD export kit, using a Buick engine, for the North and/or South American market.
British Leyland have got alot to answer for , that caused a lot of trouble that led to their bankruptcy, this must've had a major impact on Leyland Australia
It's such a shame when manufacturing mismanagement and bad labour practices and strike action leaded to this . Australian car design would've been
Far more superior without British Leylands influences
Absolutely , the boot lid pressing , or design could have transformed the rear appearance, and the tail lights are a bit ‘series 1/2/3 jaguar’ there’s a lot going on
Even if P76 was perfect from drawing board up and BL UK/OZ didnt go under, it would have lasted only a few more years because of the 1973 oil price rises.
It's so strange how so many automotive journalists get it so wrong when looking back at history. The P76 was NOT an ugly car at all. They say this because not many were sold. The reason for this was not many were made. Why? Well this was Leyland Australia's fault right? They of course didn't know how to make cars. It could not be that Leyland's production lines were sabotaged by suppliers. There was this chronic shortage of headlights supplied to Leyland and orders from Leyland in England made them send them to Mini and Rover production. They were only making around 10 000 P76s and Marina a year, roughly, and struggled with parts supply. Holden and Ford were making 250 000 plus cars a year each and didn't have these problems. Why? It makes you think that when Leyland stopped making cars a new factory built in Queensland by Holden started making the Gemini of which in 75 they made over 35 000 and had no problems with headlight supply. This was just one part. Talking about industrial espionage! The real truth here is the other manufacturers were afraid of the P76 and its futuristic wedge shaped desigh and wispered in the industries parts suppliers ears to destroy the legendary car it was. The P76 was the lightest V8 car built in Australia with an average weight of 1240 kgs. It's side intrusion bars inside the doors rivaled a Mercedes. It out accelerated all the oppositions cars except the GT HO, the GT torana and the charger bathurst models while using less petrol to do so. It had the best brakes in any product available at the time and carried more luggage then some station wagons. Yes there were some problems with the car but after owning one you start to realise something was wrong with the manufactures supplying parts to Leyland. Faulty Clutches, Petrol pumps, Distributors, door rubbers and boot rubbers to name a few. Leyland did not make these parts but got the blame when they failed. Why didn't the other manufacturers have these problems? I think some REAL investigative journalism is required here but it's far easier to jump to conclusions and knock the cars shortcomings. The truth is we lost more then just a car with so much potential. We lost the ability to decipher the truth!
It's not hard to see why they didn't do very well. Looks are one thing (that it didn't have), but so is build quality (which it also didn't have), so I guess when your company history consists of such masterpieces as the Kimberly and the Marina.....
Time 1:58, where is this? Specifically if possible?
I believe the factory was at Zetland in Sydney.
@@russparker71 yes. Off South Dowling St near old ACI glass factory in Sydney heading towards airport with golf course further down on left hand side.
Disappointed overall. I owned a 75 Super, built for the NZ market, so it had a few features of the Executive. I loved it from the moment I saw it in a back lot of a cardealer in 1989.
The only thing bad was the rust and the cheap plastic dash fascia and switches.
I think interviewing the Aussie designer rather than the guy that worked for BL would have been more interesting.
In NZ it had always been known that UK BL killed the car as the car was a hit with NZ farmers especially.
The boot could carry a 44gl drum, though how you got a full one in and out was a mystery.
This is only conjecture on my part but I think Leyland Australia had plans for UK sales. At least one P76 made it's way over there for evaluation and it was rejected for that market by BL. Think how the P76 would have taken sales from the upcoming Rover 3.5 V8 SD1. Also the headache that would have been caused by introducing the locally produced 4.4L version of the Rover V8 to the UK market.
@@erroneouscode yes there were plans as well as production of the wagon, at least one survives in Australia, and there was also a Force 10 targa top sedan (not the coupe hatch) and there is one in NZ.
Holden & ford What no mention of Chrysler 😢
Australian motoring history
I wouldn't be proud to design that crud though.
Great insight into car design in those years. Pity Leyland really botched the p76. If it was appealing to the eye it might have done well. Even the force 7 is arguably an ugly car...in my opinion
Everything they made was junk, The Marina, the early land rovers just fell apart, the p76 was a joke, the SD1 SD2 rovers, the XJ40 jags,, Ebven the Hondas that were rebadges as Rovers were junk, I did buy an 89 V12 jag and after 5 pages of defects and a court case they were forced to fix it, the car had exactly 50,000kms on it. New Rowley motors Artarmon R.I.P.
I worked at JRA paint rectification dpt. EVERY car had a defect in the panel fit or paint job, some had hail damage from new. we fixed them until JRA closed..
Wonderful car to drive the p76 , but amazingly they let it be designed by a committee....mish mash and looks out of shape and awkward from many angles, but good from side on.
Mick, some background on your expertise re this topic would be appreciated (can be found in earlier comments but most people will not read through all the comments)
The VH Valiant pov packs were plain, not ugly,, a Highly Dangerous was different, and new. The HR though was an improvement.
The P38 was Australias biggest lemon until GM imported the ZB Opel. Sales figures on both proved that.
As for Bathurst?? Dream on. The 4.4 was an ok eco passenger engine like the 4.2 Holden. And without totally redesigning the entire engine and making it at least 5 litres plus would have been so underpowered. The Valiants had 302hp from the 265,, race trim around 330. and it was at best average. The Plastic fantastic from Holden made 240hp and about 380hp in race trim.
The Cleveland made 300+ in a stock GT and over 400 with big torque.
The 4.4 made about 160hp and in race trim maybe 260. And the car was bigger and heavier than a Torana. And the pogo stick suspension would have been a hindrance.
I have heard the total wank about McCormacks 5000 engine. Which was special blocks, very special heads cast by CAC that were nothing like the factory ones. Plus stroker cranks. [and the cranks are very fragile as the bearing size is tiny] And they still made no real power and viabrated the tubs apart every meeting. And that in 100 mile races, not 500 miles or a thousand km.And using fuel injection etc. And this from the people that worked on them
Even at 5 litres with a 4 bbl, performance pistons, rods and cranks [with tiny bearings] the heads have TINY ports, ok for the original 3.5 litre Buick as an econo car engine but hopeless at extracting power from. As for the V12,,,, yeal dream on!
this car always looked awkward designwise, confirmed by the design team: ua-cam.com/video/iw-VFhjHBkU/v-deo.html
Now, from what I gathered here - the only thing David Hardy actually mentions designing, was a grill badge for a Morris 1500.
Now I understand why the P76 had such awful front and rear styling. Michelotti. By then Leyland had already earned a bad reputation to the point where few people liked their products.
A hot mess of a design - the front is awful - the side profile with those stupid fender flares makes the track look too narrow and the body bloated over like a belly falling over the belt of a pair of pants. Have always disliked this and can't believe people with eyes approved it into production.
Yeah the parent company in Britain and the designers in turin Italy really botched that up big time. Leyland Australia was under-resourced and under equipped. British head office just wanted the P76 rushed to market so they could earn some cash. Leyland Australia did continue operation post P76 and force 7. They continued building the Leyland mini, Leyland moke and also for a brief period assembled Leyland land Rovers in their Enfield plant in Sydney. P76 was produced in Zetland I believe. They also built other Leyland products which I think was some models of triumph cars. A little known fact too is that they assembled the Peugeot 505 diesel sedan here in Australia from the same Enfield plant I presume. Not sure whether they did any jaguar models or not. Leyland Australia was taken over and rebranded in the early 1980s and became known as JRA, Jaguar Rover Australia. It was around that time they started local assembly of the Peugeot 505 diesel sedan as I already mentioned in this reply. I think Leyland trucks and buses were assembled here too. I still think the P76 despite its flaws and failings is a great looking car and would be a desirable classic to own. Finding one is the next trick. I believe around 18,017 P76's were produced. A car that deserved better was produced by an Australian company that also deserved better. Leyland Britain ought to have been ashamed of themselves the way they treated Leyland Australia and how they allowed the Italian designers to sabotage a scale model that was produced by that fella Roman that was a good scale model was a disgrace. I wouldn't have blamed him for leaving after returning from Italy in disgust about the whole thing. Having a scale model that you produced on your own accord and put it on show as a great contender for a good design and then to have it sabotaged allegedly by one of the Italian designers is a tragedy. P76 really was an Italian botch job.
Even stranger when you consider michelloti was responsible for many of the best looking triumphs, including the stag.
A hot mess of a comment, full of idiotic, hyper critical hyperbole… just your barely coherent opinion.
Yeah the fender flares made it look like it was shopping for wider tyres.
@@garydargan6 widening the front and rear track would've fixed the narrow tyre problem. Perhaps adding larger diameter wheels would fix the problem further
The P76 was the most ugliest, most tragic car of all time. How it won car of the year I'll never know. The pot must've been really good back then hahaha !!
Awful cars
They are actually very nice to drive . They are quiet , and had standard power assisted disc brakes .
Fantastic stuff
I can remeber seeing a Force 7 for sale in a car yard ,,, fact alas another aussie car to history
Force 7 as a used car?? Dont think so, the only ones that got out went to museums.
Targa Florio, the least ugly maybe but a 4 door.
@@ldnwholesale8552 1st force 7 off the line is in NZ.Guy imported it from England some time ago. Others are also in private ownership
@@ldnwholesale8552 4 or 5 were sold to private indivuals, they didn't all go to museums. There's a green Force 7 that gets driven around in Sydney.
To be fair, it's not just the wheel arches. The body is WAY too big for the track. And just the wrong shape.