I'm baffled. I'm self teaching myself audio and film from home. I've done tonnes of research online, even paid for an online film school that has pre made videos that you can rewatch over and over again, and this is the video that has allowed my brain to click onto how all my gear is supposed to work each other. The math, the algorithms and all. Truly brilliant.
Sound Advice Allen. ❤ It is odd that when I went to Guitar Center a few times in the past few years, they never once mentioned an in-line pre-amplifier.
Very nice explanation! Sometimes "lower" is not used completely correctly: Due to the negative numbers we're dealing with "lower than -96dB" typically refers to values like -100dB or -129dB. "Lower" typically means here "better" at least when looking at this specification. But the explanation is really great!
It would really be lovely to have the fetthead built into the interface. I am using a fetthead phantom with deity s-mic 2 - and perhaps it is a slight overkill, but I no longer need to turn my gain to 85%+, having it at a comfortable 55-65% instead.
I'm right there with you. I'm surprised nobody has decided to put an inline preamp built into an interface yet too. Perhaps this video will inspire a manufacturer to do that.
Great explanation, especially the water thing. Is your water half clean or half dity 🤪 BTW which headphones are you using during recording your videos?
what is the EIN of an on-board soundcard on a highend motherboard? I'm recording using an MKE600, and the sound floor is around -40db, not very pleasant.
@@SoundSpeeds Thanks for the reply. I want to first make sure my mic is not abnormally noisy, is it possible to measure EIN of on-board soundcard without taking mic into account?
Great video but I'm not sure I agree about the end bit. If the preamp already achieved it's lowest EIN at it's maximum 55 dB of gain (maximum gain is where these specs are usually measured), what difference would it make if you record and digitally normalise the remaining 5 dB? Both the signal and noise would be 5 dB higher, yes. But a preamp with 60 dB of gain and the same EIN would result in the same Signal to Noise ratio. Better made preamps (that would include many interface pres these days) have a pretty linear EIN level after about 40 dB and up, so there's likely only a negligable noise penalty for turning down your preamps to 40 dB from 55 dB and normalising if they otherwise don't sound their best at max gain. I know Neumann makes a digital mic that uses an uber quiet ADC and foregos the use of a preamp, and is amplified only by digital trim. I think that would solve a lot of problems that preamps have as there'd be no need for gain staging anymore and you'd have an even lower noise floor at lower gain ranges. Although being devoid of any analog character, it's only going to sound like the mic, for better or for worse.
It's still logarithmic after 40dB but the difference is less noticeable. -66dB is half the noise floor of -60dB but that's a lot less noticeable than the jump from -6dB to 0dB. Are you saying a preamp with 55dB of gain compared to a preamp with 60dB of gain will have the same S/N if you increase the level in post of the first interface up 5dB? If so, that's not correct.
@@SoundSpeeds If the preamps had the same measured EIN of -129 dBu at their max 55 dB and 60 dB gain levels would that not result in noise floors of -74 dB and 69 dB respectively?
Not exactly but it's close. The curve isn't linear, it's logarithmic so think of it like a percentage of gain used as opposed to dB. At full gain they are giving 55dB and 60dB and that may be a noise floor difference of 5dB but at 75% gain, the gain difference may only be 3.4dB or something apart. It's true that as you approach 100% gain the noise floor gets highest (which is why I always recommend preamps with a lot of gain and a low EIN - my MixPre-6 has 76dB of gain and -130.4dB EIN). Watch this video too: ua-cam.com/video/9dZs6N1lJkY/v-deo.html
Thanks for replying, dude. Appreciate that. Also thanks for the explanation on video. What about Deity HD-TX? Do you suggest that instead of audio interface for podcasting purposes?
I'm baffled. I'm self teaching myself audio and film from home. I've done tonnes of research online, even paid for an online film school that has pre made videos that you can rewatch over and over again, and this is the video that has allowed my brain to click onto how all my gear is supposed to work each other. The math, the algorithms and all. Truly brilliant.
Thank you Seth. School followed an agenda, I don't. :-)
You are the best at what you do. Unfortunately the crowd didn't discover you, YET. Thank you sir. I just pressed FOLLOW !
Thank you Jeff. Welcome aboard!
Super useful, thanks Allen!
Thank you Curtis. Thanks for watching!
Allen your channel is such an incredible resource. Shame that only production sound people know about it! Thanks for all your work
Thank you. Feel free to spread the word. Production people know about it but don't often go to UA-cam for pro sound knowledge so I mix it up.
Sound Advice Allen. ❤ It is odd that when I went to Guitar Center a few times in the past few years, they never once mentioned an in-line pre-amplifier.
Many of the guys that work there are musicians and you won't need one in a band.
Very nice explanation! Sometimes "lower" is not used completely correctly: Due to the negative numbers we're dealing with "lower than -96dB" typically refers to values like -100dB or -129dB. "Lower" typically means here "better" at least when looking at this specification. But the explanation is really great!
That's right. Sometimes the negative sign makes things confusing.
It would really be lovely to have the fetthead built into the interface. I am using a fetthead phantom with deity s-mic 2 - and perhaps it is a slight overkill, but I no longer need to turn my gain to 85%+, having it at a comfortable 55-65% instead.
I'm right there with you. I'm surprised nobody has decided to put an inline preamp built into an interface yet too. Perhaps this video will inspire a manufacturer to do that.
Nice explainer!!
Thank you sir
You just added a lot of value to UA-cam. Again. Cheers!
Thank you. :-)
Perfect explanation of an important spec!
Thank you Nick.
Sound Speeds Also, congrats on 6k!
You are god when it comes to sound knowledge. Though I don’t understand much but your videos are helpful for a novice like me :)
Thank you and thank you for watching!
@G A too true, this guy is beyond a god for Sound and super duper helpful whenever needed.
Very nice and informative. Thanks
Sure thing. Thanks for watching Gib.
Deep dive into EIN! Thank you!
:-) Thanks for watching!
I’ll send this out to my students!
By all means!
Great presentation! Thanks fr doing this.
Glad to help.
Great explanation, especially the water thing. Is your water half clean or half dity 🤪
BTW which headphones are you using during recording your videos?
Clean, of course! Here is what I'm using: ua-cam.com/video/afBVkvmeAt0/v-deo.html
Another great video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
what is the EIN of an on-board soundcard on a highend motherboard? I'm recording using an MKE600, and the sound floor is around -40db, not very pleasant.
I have no idea. Every card is different. Measure it
@@SoundSpeeds Thanks for the reply. I want to first make sure my mic is not abnormally noisy, is it possible to measure EIN of on-board soundcard without taking mic into account?
That's usually how you do it.
ua-cam.com/video/SdHn4L1TGds/v-deo.htmlsi=IB5OlMQBRtvdW5L4
yea ! usb interfaces should include somethin like the cloudlifter stuff , despite being a little more expensive
I'm surprised they don't.
Great video but I'm not sure I agree about the end bit.
If the preamp already achieved it's lowest EIN at it's maximum 55 dB of gain (maximum gain is where these specs are usually measured), what difference would it make if you record and digitally normalise the remaining 5 dB? Both the signal and noise would be 5 dB higher, yes. But a preamp with 60 dB of gain and the same EIN would result in the same Signal to Noise ratio.
Better made preamps (that would include many interface pres these days) have a pretty linear EIN level after about 40 dB and up, so there's likely only a negligable noise penalty for turning down your preamps to 40 dB from 55 dB and normalising if they otherwise don't sound their best at max gain. I know Neumann makes a digital mic that uses an uber quiet ADC and foregos the use of a preamp, and is amplified only by digital trim. I think that would solve a lot of problems that preamps have as there'd be no need for gain staging anymore and you'd have an even lower noise floor at lower gain ranges. Although being devoid of any analog character, it's only going to sound like the mic, for better or for worse.
It's still logarithmic after 40dB but the difference is less noticeable. -66dB is half the noise floor of -60dB but that's a lot less noticeable than the jump from -6dB to 0dB.
Are you saying a preamp with 55dB of gain compared to a preamp with 60dB of gain will have the same S/N if you increase the level in post of the first interface up 5dB? If so, that's not correct.
@@SoundSpeeds If the preamps had the same measured EIN of -129 dBu at their max 55 dB and 60 dB gain levels would that not result in noise floors of -74 dB and 69 dB respectively?
Not exactly but it's close. The curve isn't linear, it's logarithmic so think of it like a percentage of gain used as opposed to dB. At full gain they are giving 55dB and 60dB and that may be a noise floor difference of 5dB but at 75% gain, the gain difference may only be 3.4dB or something apart. It's true that as you approach 100% gain the noise floor gets highest (which is why I always recommend preamps with a lot of gain and a low EIN - my MixPre-6 has 76dB of gain and -130.4dB EIN).
Watch this video too: ua-cam.com/video/9dZs6N1lJkY/v-deo.html
Thank you
Sure thing!
What low-noise audio interfaces would you suggest?
Many of the Behringer and Focusrite interfaces are great. The Motu M2 is also a great buy at $160.
Thanks for replying, dude. Appreciate that. Also thanks for the explanation on video. What about Deity HD-TX? Do you suggest that instead of audio interface for podcasting purposes?
Depends... the HD-TX with the new v2 firmware functions as an interface or as a stand alone recorder. Quite versatile in that regard.
You made more difficult!
No I didn't. :-) I told you what you needed to hear instead of what you want to hear.
i thought i was a nerd
LOL.