Well some of its scams and sometimes it is errors. Those are separate terms for good reason… Now you can say the medical industry is operating as a fraud and I wouldn’t entirely disagree, but sometimes medical billers are just doing their jobs and they have old, outdated software and a code is put in wrong. That’s an error. Doing it intentionally? Fraud or a scam. You can’t just call every single error a scam. That being said, I’m a big fan of being more up front about medical costs and more hospitals and physician’s offices operating in such a way that private pay wouldn’t be astronomical. Still, that’s a structural issue and it’s not really up to doctors to fundamentally change that system.
@@user-kb7sl6cz6s you're absolutely right that some proportion will be a good faith error. The point is though that there's no incentive to get the billing correct. If they overbill, no big deal (to them) - worst case scenario is that the patient notices and then the bill gets lowered to what it should be. But if there were an actual incentive to get it correct, there would immediately be more care in scrutinising the list before sending it out to the consumer.
@@wr44 that’s actually not true but it depends on the size of the physician’s office. Overbilling is fraud and there can be serious consequences with CMS and other organizations. However, it seems this usually hurts healthcare facilities more than insurance companies and the structure needs to improve. But it’s not accurate to say there are no consequences it’s just a matter of patient education and not being afraid to call it out.
"ask for a quote before a medical procedure, there may be room for negotiation" is the most American statement. I need to haggle with the hospital for my life 🤦
@christhewalrus2016 if the tories hadn't ruined it, the NHS would still be one of the top health care systems in the world, I do not have to pay for births, cancer care, broken bones, ambuland rides, or almost anything. The only thing I do have to pay for is prescriptions and dental care!
@@375-Productions Try that in the states where most of our population is obese and loves giving themselves cancer voluntarily through smoking. What works for some countries doesn't work for others.
@@christhewalrus2016shut up you mouth breather, nobody is necessarily even saying it should be free but the fact that over 3/4 of medical bills contain an "error" and prices are way higher for most things than they would ever conceivably be accounting for paying everyone and for the medicines is literally criminal. the medical insurance industry makes trillions of dollars a year off the backs of the american public and its disgusting.
It's insame that the cost of childbirth is not covered by public healthcare. But you US folks get told a human friendly healthcare system is "EVIL COMMUNISM". A Cesearian is quite normal in Germany. You talk about that very early with your FRAUENARZT (Women's Doctor, a medical professional who's entire job is about female reproductive system and other exclusively female related medical issues) IF you want a natural birth or a Cesarian. Cesarian= hospital appointment. After the estimated 42 weeks you grab your packed stugf and drive to the hospital. Your person of choice can take the day off and join you. Operation room, Cesarian, and on and on. Everything covered by evil communist healthcare....
Because it is viewed as “medically beneficial”. This is the growth mode of capitalism, you inevitably have to start monetizing and exploiting basic human decency.
Our healthcare system is so bloated and exploitative that I get angry every time I think about it. As a healthy, young individual with full time work, I pay $150+ per month for high deductible, minimal coverage. It would cost me around $300 EVERY SINGLE MONTH for the same shi**y coverage for my healthy spouse, since my job doesn't cover costs for dependents at all. If I have a serious injury or sickness, I'll have to empty all my savings just to meet the deductible, but at least I won't go bankrupt since I had health "coverage" 🤬🤬🤬
Wow, I pay more than that per WEEK for my high deductible plan. Anyway, there is one benefit to being enrolled in a high deductible plan that some people overlook. If you are, the IRS permits you to contribute to a health savings account that has a better tax treatment than even a Roth IRA.
No. Run. Wherever you are is probably better than this hell hole. Especially of you are in Europe. Just move to the Netherlands or Germany, or any of those...
Had my Dr. recommend a medical treatment. I called my insurance & asked if it was covered. They said that yes, it was eligible for coverage. 2 months later i got a bill for $3,000.!!! When i called, they claimed to have said it was "eligible for coverage" and not covered!!!🤬🤬🤬
Even with written proof, it doesn't matter. My insurance approved a $30,000 emergency surgery, then denied it six months later. Thankfully the hospital had record of them pre-approving it, so they eventually wrote off the debt, but it wrecked my credit score in the meantime. Insurance is a scam.
That's why you need to record every single phone call like that. If you're not in a state with single party consent recording you can just plan out tell them "I will be recording this phone call"
I worked as a medical biller for an Ambulance company. I have seen a patient declined the ambulance since cannot afford to pay a fucking $300 copay. Also dealt with huge insurance companies such as Aetna, and ooohhh boy they sure have a lot of "not medically necessary" denials. It is ridiculous
I once had an emergency surgery denied for not being medically necessary. Like, it was emergency for a reason, you absolute fucking dingbats. I will never understand why insurance companies are allowed to deny care that a DOCTOR, who has a MEDICAL DEGREE and sometimes has been working with a patient for years, deems medically necessary.
It's impressive how the US can be a global super-power and have a healthcare system worse than most 3rd world countries... Imagine how much far ahead they could be if they actually acted as a developed country.
Seriously. Chronically ill American here. I spend SO MUCH time and energy and MONEY to get just enough medical care to function on a very basic level. If we had a functioning system, I would have so much more expendable income. So much more time. I could do more than the bare minimum. Imagine how much better off the country would be if that were true for every sick American. We would be able to devote more resources to solving other major problems, like poverty, education, climate change...
Even better, be smart and vote for a political candidate/party which truly has the interest of the common people at heart and not for the wealthy for whom paying is not an issue.
We need universal healthcare. One massive subsidy we all pay into, giving us all the negotiating power and other insurance companies, hospitals and drug companies ALL would be forced to bow down to us. No deductibles, no co-pays, no network restrictions. We need to catch up with the rest of the world, we are in the dark ages of medical exploitation still.
Doc here: thank insurances, pharmas and MBAs also: Most hospitals will reduce the bill like 60% if you ask for it and plead that you really need it. also many times the bill is sent twice, to the patient AND the insurance. so the insurance pays, charges you, and you also receive the Hospitals full bill and the MBAs in charge won't tell you it's already paid As others said: if you can't pay, or even if you can but it's killing you you should call the hospital, most got people that will wipe clean debts of even several 10s of thousands of dollars. I've seen patients go from 20ish k to like 4k and they were middle class people.
your as much part of the problem as the rest of the chain. Insane doctors don't unionize and unit to make more strict regulations and actually help their patients afford treatment. Being kid of doctor parents I can tell you most doctors also just care about their pockets.
@@lailas.3205 my parents are actually some of the nicest and hard working people in this field and they have been getting abused constantly by their co-workers who are money hungry practitioners. The stories they tell are absolute horror. If there was one field i would ever unionize it would be doctors and nurses.
@@Amir-jn5mo not really the issue, while sure, all doctors having a strike until the system is fixed would theoretically fix the issue, but it also would require changing a TON of laws, ie not a single executive action, but drawing and redrawing dozens of laws, rethinking the whole system, how would clinics run,what about hospitals? how would you deal with people that still want to have some form of insurance for large bills, or what about if you fall I'll far from your hospital or chain, what would the contracts of reciprocity look like between hospitals? what about medical records? look, I'm not anti union AT ALL. but the issue here is so massive, so huge that it would take YEARS of intense work to make it happen at the very least, and frankly stopping all healthcare BUT emergency for even a few months would be crazy. also you got a shitton of doctors all across the country with massively different outlooks and priorities, some don't give a crap, some can't afford not working for a week let alone a few months. Also how do you get all 50 legislatures to change all at once? you really can't have a system where every state plays by massively different rulesets. yes, we need political action but it's not just unionizing and demanding. We need lobbyists, and public support. Some doctors want the same system but paid for by the state, some argue the system is fine all be it a bit abusive and a few price regulations should be all we need some like me think we need a overhaul of the system all together. It's a change that either happens gradually or FAST. but you can't have one state medical union enacting changes and another state remaining the same and another just passing the cost to the taxpayer. Believe me, most docs want change, most want healthcare which doesn't bankrupt you but politics plays a major role. some want govt run hospitals other privately owned but transparent not for profit hospitals with incentives to keep you healthy.
Everyday i thank god for not being born on the US, i mean no disrespect for the people but i worked on costumer service for americans and man... Heard A LOT of stories, people throwing goodbye parties for someone that discovered they had diabetes and they know the person is going to die soon since its too expensive to treat it. The worst part is that its FREE to treat it in my country and even if you want to buy it would cost less than a mcdonnalds meal
@@christinewatson1989 i wish it was man, i worked for a credit card company and A LOT of homeless people had works but couldnt afford to rent a house. they had REAL jobs not like catching aluminum cans to recicle i mean at offices and factories and yet a lot of them slepts inside cars. i could see theirs bills man... even if i wanted to belive that is a myth i just had the proof in front of me
Yup. This'll be what kills me. Either a ridiculous medical bill and I self deleted or had a heart attack or stroke from it. Or, I'll just not get care because of how much it costs and just self delete because I have no future. 🎶 This is America! 🎶
This is one of the few things I will give the trump administration credit for, they did make a requirement that the charge master for hospitals must be made public.
As someone who is going into medical billing, just ask for the fee schedule. That's what they are going to charge if you don't have insurance. Your insurance is going to have a (likely) lower price that they agree is reasonable, and then you pay the percentage that you opted into for your plan. The fee schedule is going to give you a high point for that procedure. Also, it is regulated by the price points of doctors in the immediate area, which is why some areas are more expensive than others for the same procedure.
I used to pay around $320 per month for medical insurance, still I had to pay considerable co-pay for doctor visits and lab tests and meds. Later I had to cancel my insurance due to my financial situation. Recently I had to visit hospital due to unavoidable health problems and I told to the health care provider that I do not have insurance and I will pay out of pocket and was shocked to see that the cost for treatment and lab tests and medicine is cheaper then when I had insurance, and you don’t even need referrals for specialist. I feel cheated when I payed thousands of bucks in insurance fee and now getting the same health care without insurance. (Note: you have to find a provider who has low costs , there are plenty and in some rich counties there are even free healthcare providers)
NEVER pay the first bill. Even if it only contains your expected copay. Most hospitals will wait to bill part or all of your services to insurance until AFTER they send you the bill. Wait 30 days for them to send you a second invoice.
This! Always wait for the 2nd or 3rd bill because the amount due might be less after insurance finally gets around to paying their part. Just be careful not to wait too long to where they're threatening to send to collections. 😅 It can be easy to lose track if there are several different bills.
It should be a crime to charge patients for stuff they didn't receive bc usually if there's one there's multiple at least in my experience and they'll literally fight you on it too saying you did receive it when you didn't. Occasionally people make mistakes but when most bills come with errors it stops being a mistake and a scam.
This system is so much better than public health insurance like almost every modern developed nation has. The freedom to go bankrupt and start a GoFundMe to fund life saving medical treatment. America, f*ck yeah 😌
All medical service should be list out and the insurance should be immediately say how much it covers or not cover. I don’t know why Americans do not complaint the unknown price tag for medical services.
Even with 5k a year insurance, tests for random chest pains have so far cost over 3k, and i have no answers. I expect to get bills for this for the next 6 months.
They don't tell you the price because you have insurance or Medicare, and they know the insurer is going to decide what it pays - so it's actually like going onto a car lot where the prices aren't given AND the person who's actually going to pay most of the price of the car isn't there either. So the dealer doesn't know what the car will cost all that much better than you do. It's the same in countries with universal health care - they don't tell the patient the price, either, they just tell the patient what his co-pay is. Then the government tells them what it's going to pay for a procedure. Waste and time value of money are priced into the system, which inflates the prices. But if you walk into a US hospital and tell them you are "private pay cash" and ask the price of a specific procedure, they will tell you the price of the procedure, and it's fascinating how much cheaper it is than it would have been if the insurer paid. I discovered this when the Obamacare rates went up in 2015 and I had to go two years with no insurance. Cash prices dropped by about 40% over the insurance-paid charges on Obamacare. If we all had the cash savings to pay cash for our health care, it would be pretty cheap. That's one reason HCSA's are so popular.
This is why there needs to be a patient advocate you meet with at the hospital or the doctors office before any procedure is done. This person would not work for the hospital or insurance but the costs of the procedure will be discussed and agreed to before moving forward.
Germany: KOSTENVORANSCHLAG!!! Everything that is not paid by the public healthcare has to be written out transparent BEFORE anything gets done. If the cost is higher the hospital has to explain why.
This literally makes me so angry that people have to deal with this. I’m obviously thankful that I don’t have to in Canada, but I’m able to take it for granted so much that I’m pissed that the US medical care system will knowingly do this to people 😡
For a first world country & the richest, we’re so behind on wages, public transportation, gun laws, the laws, the economy has always been 💩 for most Americans, the rich keep getting richer while everyone else suffers, healthcare is a joke, etc
My kid had a nosebleed that went on for over 20 minutes. He had surgery a week before so I took him to the ER. My insurance paid $130 and I owe $1,800 for the nosebleed incident. Oh, and I paid $4,000 out of pocket toward the surgery.
I recall a street side emergency room about 20 years ago where I told them "no anesthesia, just sew it up." (Three stitches, don't be impressed. If you like a rush, try adrenaline.) Sure enough, at check out, there it was. The clerk had to check if I actually denied the service with the staff. If you ever had a sheet of plywood or OSB slide in your hand at grip tension, that stings more.
The car sale analogy is bad. Hospitals are more like car workshops, another place where you don't know upfront the visit cost (until the mechanic actually finishes the fix).
A year ago I found out I had a brain tumor the size of a lemon. Thankfully not cancer and they removed it right away, but between surgery and radiation it was around $400,000. After insurance my out-of-pocket came to around $5k. Nevertheless extremely stressful seeing that bill in the mail, then the relief of insurance shortly thereafter “this charge has been approved”. I’m grateful for my insurance, no doubt, but simultaneously saddened for those other Americans without this same coverage. Then frustrated by the back and forth of bill, insurance company negotiations with hospital, out of pocket max, copays, and occasional appeals necessary to ensure I didn’t spend more than $5k. Thankfully I have a mother-in-law who worked in healthcare and battled the same stuff with her own ailing parents. There must be a better way that doesn’t require literal professional healthcare family members and everyone to have the time and expertise to dig into every question. Oh wait! The whole rest of the developed world and much of the developing world has it built into their normal tax structure and gets equally good and sometimes better care than US? Ridiculous the objections to implementing this domestically 😢
I got a bill for shoulder surgery and anesthesia (over $1k), but I just went for a check up LOL. They took it off after I called them and had to argue that I never had surgery. Truly, truly a scam.
Should just make healthcare free you know like the rest of the world not to mention get an itemized bill and then debate them on certain things like I seen someone be charged over $300 for a Tylenol
This is a big reason why developing standardized healthcare is so important. A nationalized committee could set maximum prices for procedures and empower the consumer.
except we already have that, and it is called CMS fee schedule, issue is providers don’t have to accept it for commercial members so they basically ask for different rate or methods of payments.. and simply opt out of seeing government insured where they have to accept those rates
I live in Mexico, the medical system For workers You don't pay anything for being hospitalized, it's free For student For all levels including college, My brother broke bot feet in motorcycle crash, we didnt pay anythin except the material, and we pay medical supplies because he hadnt any kind of insurance....
Sure, I can understand why in an emergency situation it's nearly impossible to know what procedures and level of care will be needed, much less what the total cost will be. But why is that so difficult for something done routinely and with significant advance knowledge, like an ACL repair surgery?
If prices were open and apparent, it would destroy the single payer insurance agenda. The free-market would work as it was designed, price creates competition competition drives quality and lowers price
Wait! So, you're telling it's not just my family facing this issue? 😂 In all seriousness, it was shocking for us to see this happening after living in another country where the quality of healthcare is bad, but there was nothing wrong with the billing system and no such errors (fraud?) Why can't this be fixed? Isn't this more important than someone's sex tape?
“Hey body can you stop trying to actively unalive me over a little bit of shrimp cross-contamination for a minute so I can haggle the prices and decide if I’d rather just let you continue or get the LIFESAVING treatment that will leave me broke. Kthxbai”
Wow!!! I can’t imagine a world or a country without a health care plan.... That means that just getting for too long you can actually lose everything you had built so far...!!!
Unless the only number to call on the bill including general number sends you to the hospitals in house collection agency, to which giving the invoice number isn't enough. They want soc#, address, full legal name, birth date and they tell you anything and everything you say will and can be used against you for collections. Michigan hospitals will not give itemized bills unless you fully subjugate yourself first. Even then you may never receive it until the hospital already placed you in collections...30 days.
Wait, if medical bills were to be simplified and settled more efficiently in the US, then who’s gonna pay for all the payday/predatory lenders and pointless industrial admin who always step in to ‘help’?…
Sometimes the wait for the bill can be months to a year. I once got a bill (full of errors) after a year. Turns out I owed nothing too. You would think if I owed you money, you would want that money.
I called to pay my grandmother’s final hospital expenses. I asked if it was the final bill and they refused to say yes or no. They danced around the question instead. You’d think they’d want to tell the truth and get paid.
I'm from a country that doesn't tip & that legislates businesses must advertise a sales tax inclusive price. When living in North America, I felt uncomfortable not knowing how much I should/must pay at a store or restaurant until afterwards. The only thing I'd change in my country is that real estate is allowed to be advertised with no indication of the price - you then might pay due diligence costs on something you can't afford.
If you're going to stores and restaurants that don't show prices upfront, you're not too worried about how much things cost. You good 😂 otherwise just ask
@lailas.3205 - stores have a price but it seemed a minefield of different sales taxes - sometimes there'd be state tax only; federal tax only or both. At a restaurant, it's unclear how much is an acceptable tip when it's not your culture. If I go to a restaurant at home, I don't pay a cent more than what's on the menu.
I paid the majority of my medical bill over the course of 10 years (getting a payment plan was a feat itself) and now it’s on “pause” which means I *probably* won’t have to pay anymore but they said it’s still possible. 🎉
US citizens you guys need to get universal healthcare already. You really can’t call yourself first world with this system. How can the richest country be so behind??
It’s my least favorite part about working in healthcare- it’s a business- and we are all getting screwed by it. My patients and I’m always underpaid for what I do.
I reinjured my tire ACL yesterday and went to the ER in severe pain . They did an x ray but no mri. They said it wasn’t considered an emergency and my insurance wouldn’t cover it. So they recommended me to make an appt with my doctor that did my surgery. I fucken hate USA
Having to worry about billing for healthcare is infuriating. Government should really be able to do something about it. Not socialism, just capitalism without obscenity.
It makes me laugh how Americans get so itate when the idea of nationalising the healthcare system is brought up. Suddenly everyone's a socialist or a communist. But mention to them the public school system already being tax payer-funded and suddenly there's silence. America's entire healthcare system is run according to the whims of the insurance industry.
Something i heard, im not sure if its true, but the reason why there so high is that the medical insurance brings it down saying thats the max they will pay, so that the hospital can mark it as a loss and therefore a tax write off
I wish we'd stop referring to billing scams as "errors". 😡
Exactly if you were to the same towards the IRS, ups just filled it with an “error” not tax fraud at all. You would not last long
I'm sure if every error was not only removed, but also deducted again from the remainder of the bill, it would stop happening overnight.
Well some of its scams and sometimes it is errors. Those are separate terms for good reason… Now you can say the medical industry is operating as a fraud and I wouldn’t entirely disagree, but sometimes medical billers are just doing their jobs and they have old, outdated software and a code is put in wrong. That’s an error. Doing it intentionally? Fraud or a scam. You can’t just call every single error a scam. That being said, I’m a big fan of being more up front about medical costs and more hospitals and physician’s offices operating in such a way that private pay wouldn’t be astronomical. Still, that’s a structural issue and it’s not really up to doctors to fundamentally change that system.
@@user-kb7sl6cz6s you're absolutely right that some proportion will be a good faith error. The point is though that there's no incentive to get the billing correct. If they overbill, no big deal (to them) - worst case scenario is that the patient notices and then the bill gets lowered to what it should be.
But if there were an actual incentive to get it correct, there would immediately be more care in scrutinising the list before sending it out to the consumer.
@@wr44 that’s actually not true but it depends on the size of the physician’s office. Overbilling is fraud and there can be serious consequences with CMS and other organizations. However, it seems this usually hurts healthcare facilities more than insurance companies and the structure needs to improve. But it’s not accurate to say there are no consequences it’s just a matter of patient education and not being afraid to call it out.
"ask for a quote before a medical procedure, there may be room for negotiation" is the most American statement. I need to haggle with the hospital for my life 🤦
Doctors don't work for free and medical equipment is expensive.
@christhewalrus2016 if the tories hadn't ruined it, the NHS would still be one of the top health care systems in the world, I do not have to pay for births, cancer care, broken bones, ambuland rides, or almost anything. The only thing I do have to pay for is prescriptions and dental care!
@@375-Productions Try that in the states where most of our population is obese and loves giving themselves cancer voluntarily through smoking. What works for some countries doesn't work for others.
@@christhewalrus2016Yes but most of the benefit of what you are paying is not for the doctors not the equipment.
@@christhewalrus2016shut up you mouth breather, nobody is necessarily even saying it should be free but the fact that over 3/4 of medical bills contain an "error" and prices are way higher for most things than they would ever conceivably be accounting for paying everyone and for the medicines is literally criminal. the medical insurance industry makes trillions of dollars a year off the backs of the american public and its disgusting.
My best friend actually got charged for having skin-to-skin contact after her c-section like wtf why??
That is just insane!!😮
It's insame that the cost of childbirth is not covered by public healthcare.
But you US folks get told a human friendly healthcare system is "EVIL COMMUNISM".
A Cesearian is quite normal in Germany. You talk about that very early with your FRAUENARZT (Women's Doctor, a medical professional who's entire job is about female reproductive system and other exclusively female related medical issues)
IF you want a natural birth or a Cesarian. Cesarian= hospital appointment. After the estimated 42 weeks you grab your packed stugf and drive to the hospital. Your person of choice can take the day off and join you. Operation room, Cesarian, and on and on. Everything covered by evil communist healthcare....
Because it is viewed as “medically beneficial”. This is the growth mode of capitalism, you inevitably have to start monetizing and exploiting basic human decency.
Our healthcare system is so bloated and exploitative that I get angry every time I think about it. As a healthy, young individual with full time work, I pay $150+ per month for high deductible, minimal coverage. It would cost me around $300 EVERY SINGLE MONTH for the same shi**y coverage for my healthy spouse, since my job doesn't cover costs for dependents at all. If I have a serious injury or sickness, I'll have to empty all my savings just to meet the deductible, but at least I won't go bankrupt since I had health "coverage" 🤬🤬🤬
Wow, I pay more than that per WEEK for my high deductible plan. Anyway, there is one benefit to being enrolled in a high deductible plan that some people overlook. If you are, the IRS permits you to contribute to a health savings account that has a better tax treatment than even a Roth IRA.
holy crap your insurance is cheap!!! what provider is this? try 150$ per week!
Young people get those kinds of rates. I had similar rates in my late 40s just before Obamadon'tcare started.
The more I learn about America the lesser I want to move there. My sympathise for the people of the USA.
It’s great is you are a Corporation or a CEO of a Fortune500 company….not great if you are an average person.
No. Run. Wherever you are is probably better than this hell hole. Especially of you are in Europe. Just move to the Netherlands or Germany, or any of those...
It's insane people want to move here, Im personally hoping to get out
Had my Dr. recommend a medical treatment. I called my insurance & asked if it was covered. They said that yes, it was eligible for coverage. 2 months later i got a bill for $3,000.!!! When i called, they claimed to have said it was "eligible for coverage" and not covered!!!🤬🤬🤬
Thats why you follow up with a written email detailing what they said incase they try to gaslight you.
Even with written proof, it doesn't matter. My insurance approved a $30,000 emergency surgery, then denied it six months later. Thankfully the hospital had record of them pre-approving it, so they eventually wrote off the debt, but it wrecked my credit score in the meantime. Insurance is a scam.
That's why you need to record every single phone call like that. If you're not in a state with single party consent recording you can just plan out tell them "I will be recording this phone call"
I worked as a medical biller for an Ambulance company. I have seen a patient declined the ambulance since cannot afford to pay a fucking $300 copay. Also dealt with huge insurance companies such as Aetna, and ooohhh boy they sure have a lot of "not medically necessary" denials. It is ridiculous
I once had an emergency surgery denied for not being medically necessary. Like, it was emergency for a reason, you absolute fucking dingbats.
I will never understand why insurance companies are allowed to deny care that a DOCTOR, who has a MEDICAL DEGREE and sometimes has been working with a patient for years, deems medically necessary.
What!!!! , ambulance company, why to privatize something as essential as this
So Basically you mean america is just a really big market
I am glad I live in a country with a functional health care system. 😂
Oh sure, rub it in, Latvia 🙄😂
Ay don’t start it, we’re the ones protecting you from the Ruskies
The state of U.S. health care makes me sick. I'm so blessed to live in Germany!
It's impressive how the US can be a global super-power and have a healthcare system worse than most 3rd world countries...
Imagine how much far ahead they could be if they actually acted as a developed country.
Seriously. Chronically ill American here. I spend SO MUCH time and energy and MONEY to get just enough medical care to function on a very basic level. If we had a functioning system, I would have so much more expendable income. So much more time. I could do more than the bare minimum. Imagine how much better off the country would be if that were true for every sick American. We would be able to devote more resources to solving other major problems, like poverty, education, climate change...
Here's how you can negotiate...get a passport. It's called medical tourism. 😊
Even better, be smart and vote for a political candidate/party which truly has the interest of the common people at heart and not for the wealthy for whom paying is not an issue.
@@Antinous99like democrats who look out for common dictators in ukraine while americans are homeless drug addicts? Right
@@Antinous99 which is none
@@trans_eaterthe democrats
@@0IIIIII ahahaha
Can't believe this is still legal in a democracy.
It's the capitalism part that's the problem, not the democracy part.
"Room for negotiation about my health" 😂
such a American thing
We need universal healthcare. One massive subsidy we all pay into, giving us all the negotiating power and other insurance companies, hospitals and drug companies ALL would be forced to bow down to us. No deductibles, no co-pays, no network restrictions. We need to catch up with the rest of the world, we are in the dark ages of medical exploitation still.
No, we need to fund Ukraine.
Doc here:
thank insurances, pharmas and MBAs
also: Most hospitals will reduce the bill like 60% if you ask for it and plead that you really need it.
also many times the bill is sent twice, to the patient AND the insurance. so the insurance pays, charges you, and you also receive the Hospitals full bill and the MBAs in charge won't tell you it's already paid
As others said: if you can't pay, or even if you can but it's killing you you should call the hospital, most got people that will wipe clean debts of even several 10s of thousands of dollars. I've seen patients go from 20ish k to like 4k and they were middle class people.
My system wouldn’t budge cost wise but eventually let me have a payment plan after lots of asking and checking my credit 😂
your as much part of the problem as the rest of the chain. Insane doctors don't unionize and unit to make more strict regulations and actually help their patients afford treatment. Being kid of doctor parents I can tell you most doctors also just care about their pockets.
@@Amir-jn5mo Is it possible you're taking out your personal issues with your parents on this complete stranger?
@@lailas.3205 my parents are actually some of the nicest and hard working people in this field and they have been getting abused constantly by their co-workers who are money hungry practitioners. The stories they tell are absolute horror. If there was one field i would ever unionize it would be doctors and nurses.
@@Amir-jn5mo not really the issue, while sure, all doctors having a strike until the system is fixed would theoretically fix the issue, but it also would require changing a TON of laws, ie not a single executive action, but drawing and redrawing dozens of laws, rethinking the whole system, how would clinics run,what about hospitals? how would you deal with people that still want to have some form of insurance for large bills, or what about if you fall I'll far from your hospital or chain, what would the contracts of reciprocity look like between hospitals? what about medical records?
look, I'm not anti union AT ALL. but the issue here is so massive, so huge that it would take YEARS of intense work to make it happen at the very least, and frankly stopping all healthcare BUT emergency for even a few months would be crazy. also you got a shitton of doctors all across the country with massively different outlooks and priorities, some don't give a crap, some can't afford not working for a week let alone a few months. Also how do you get all 50 legislatures to change all at once? you really can't have a system where every state plays by massively different rulesets.
yes, we need political action but it's not just unionizing and demanding. We need lobbyists, and public support.
Some doctors want the same system but paid for by the state, some argue the system is fine all be it a bit abusive and a few price regulations should be all we need some like me think we need a overhaul of the system all together. It's a change that either happens gradually or FAST. but you can't have one state medical union enacting changes and another state remaining the same and another just passing the cost to the taxpayer.
Believe me, most docs want change, most want healthcare which doesn't bankrupt you but politics plays a major role. some want govt run hospitals other privately owned but transparent not for profit hospitals with incentives to keep you healthy.
My wife had bad indigestion and went to urgent care. Doc sent her home after 2 hours of sitting and some water, and we had to pay $1300.
Everyday i thank god for not being born on the US, i mean no disrespect for the people but i worked on costumer service for americans and man... Heard A LOT of stories, people throwing goodbye parties for someone that discovered they had diabetes and they know the person is going to die soon since its too expensive to treat it. The worst part is that its FREE to treat it in my country and even if you want to buy it would cost less than a mcdonnalds meal
This is an absolute myth my dude.
@@christinewatson1989 i wish it was man, i worked for a credit card company and A LOT of homeless people had works but couldnt afford to rent a house. they had REAL jobs not like catching aluminum cans to recicle i mean at offices and factories and yet a lot of them slepts inside cars. i could see theirs bills man... even if i wanted to belive that is a myth i just had the proof in front of me
I'm American and I absolutely believe this. This healthcare system is fucked.
I was charged $650 for an eye exam the other day.
LOL
yah, its only about $160 for an eye exam in Canada as it is only partially covered by our taxation system
@@Spectarium maybe 20€ in france but alright
Free in Denmark....
Didn't mention covid once and there is still a covid warning message on the short.
Motherfuckers, still with this shit.. I really wonder how long will this still work
Typical AI mass tagging anything medical
Happened to me always when I go to see my dentist. I was charged for my copay of $20 for cleaning when my insurance says $0 😅😅😅
You should ask them about that. Seriously
The US health care system is wild
And insurance companies decide what kind of treatment is “best” for you, not a doctor not any medical professional, but some random guys they hired
One of the major local hospital networks in my area has billed me incorrectly 75% of the time.
Yup. This'll be what kills me. Either a ridiculous medical bill and I self deleted or had a heart attack or stroke from it. Or, I'll just not get care because of how much it costs and just self delete because I have no future.
🎶 This is America! 🎶
This is one of the few things I will give the trump administration credit for, they did make a requirement that the charge master for hospitals must be made public.
Hospitals are a human right and shouldn't cost any money at all. Period!
how will you pay for doctors and medical equipment then? question mark!
So glad I live in the 🇬🇧
As someone who is going into medical billing, just ask for the fee schedule. That's what they are going to charge if you don't have insurance. Your insurance is going to have a (likely) lower price that they agree is reasonable, and then you pay the percentage that you opted into for your plan. The fee schedule is going to give you a high point for that procedure. Also, it is regulated by the price points of doctors in the immediate area, which is why some areas are more expensive than others for the same procedure.
A public single payer system is the solution
I used to pay around $320 per month for medical insurance, still I had to pay considerable co-pay for doctor visits and lab tests and meds. Later I had to cancel my insurance due to my financial situation. Recently I had to visit hospital due to unavoidable health problems and I told to the health care provider that I do not have insurance and I will pay out of pocket and was shocked to see that the cost for treatment and lab tests and medicine is cheaper then when I had insurance, and you don’t even need referrals for specialist. I feel cheated when I payed thousands of bucks in insurance fee and now getting the same health care without insurance. (Note: you have to find a provider who has low costs , there are plenty and in some rich counties there are even free healthcare providers)
Stop letting this happen. Ask for how much it cost. It is against the law for them not to tell you. In Europe this is illegal to do to their citizens.
NEVER pay the first bill. Even if it only contains your expected copay. Most hospitals will wait to bill part or all of your services to insurance until AFTER they send you the bill. Wait 30 days for them to send you a second invoice.
This! Always wait for the 2nd or 3rd bill because the amount due might be less after insurance finally gets around to paying their part. Just be careful not to wait too long to where they're threatening to send to collections. 😅 It can be easy to lose track if there are several different bills.
My medical bills in Spain: 0€
Spain is an absolute shitshow when it comes to punitively high taxation though.
@@christinewatson1989 According to who,. How much was you last medical bill when you had surgery?
@@christinewatson1989I'd way rather pay high taxes than my current scammy insurance and medical bills!
@@Naruedyoh My last surgery was cosmetic which isn't covered anywhere in the world so it's a moot point.
@@christinewatson1989 There are cosmetic surgeries covered here
It should be a crime to charge patients for stuff they didn't receive bc usually if there's one there's multiple at least in my experience and they'll literally fight you on it too saying you did receive it when you didn't. Occasionally people make mistakes but when most bills come with errors it stops being a mistake and a scam.
This system is so much better than public health insurance like almost every modern developed nation has. The freedom to go bankrupt and start a GoFundMe to fund life saving medical treatment. America, f*ck yeah 😌
All medical service should be list out and the insurance should be immediately say how much it covers or not cover. I don’t know why Americans do not complaint the unknown price tag for medical services.
Everyone in the U.S is a temporarily embarrassed millionaire and once they’re rich they don’t want that no good socialism to mess with them.
Even with 5k a year insurance, tests for random chest pains have so far cost over 3k, and i have no answers.
I expect to get bills for this for the next 6 months.
They don't tell you the price because you have insurance or Medicare, and they know the insurer is going to decide what it pays - so it's actually like going onto a car lot where the prices aren't given AND the person who's actually going to pay most of the price of the car isn't there either. So the dealer doesn't know what the car will cost all that much better than you do. It's the same in countries with universal health care - they don't tell the patient the price, either, they just tell the patient what his co-pay is. Then the government tells them what it's going to pay for a procedure. Waste and time value of money are priced into the system, which inflates the prices. But if you walk into a US hospital and tell them you are "private pay cash" and ask the price of a specific procedure, they will tell you the price of the procedure, and it's fascinating how much cheaper it is than it would have been if the insurer paid. I discovered this when the Obamacare rates went up in 2015 and I had to go two years with no insurance. Cash prices dropped by about 40% over the insurance-paid charges on Obamacare. If we all had the cash savings to pay cash for our health care, it would be pretty cheap. That's one reason HCSA's are so popular.
This is why there needs to be a patient advocate you meet with at the hospital or the doctors office before any procedure is done. This person would not work for the hospital or insurance but the costs of the procedure will be discussed and agreed to before moving forward.
Germany:
KOSTENVORANSCHLAG!!!
Everything that is not paid by the public healthcare has to be written out transparent BEFORE anything gets done. If the cost is higher the hospital has to explain why.
When I got hit by a car and was unconscious, i didn't have time to "shop aroud"
Universal Healthcare is the awnser. Boomers are the only thing standing in its way.
How much? oh it'll be one kidney.
American problem 😂
This why I’m glad I pay Medicare and have free health care here. Medicare is 1.5% of my income paid in my taxes
This literally makes me so angry that people have to deal with this. I’m obviously thankful that I don’t have to in Canada, but I’m able to take it for granted so much that I’m pissed that the US medical care system will knowingly do this to people 😡
For a first world country & the richest, we’re so behind on wages, public transportation, gun laws, the laws, the economy has always been 💩 for most Americans, the rich keep getting richer while everyone else suffers, healthcare is a joke, etc
My kid had a nosebleed that went on for over 20 minutes. He had surgery a week before so I took him to the ER. My insurance paid $130 and I owe $1,800 for the nosebleed incident. Oh, and I paid $4,000 out of pocket toward the surgery.
I took my cat to the vet for an emergency and they basically layed down all the pricing up front. Even the cost of resuscitation if that was needed.
Went through 5 different calls all leading me to the next org in a circle to get a quote for a nose surgery, never received it
I recall a street side emergency room about 20 years ago where I told them "no anesthesia, just sew it up." (Three stitches, don't be impressed. If you like a rush, try adrenaline.) Sure enough, at check out, there it was. The clerk had to check if I actually denied the service with the staff. If you ever had a sheet of plywood or OSB slide in your hand at grip tension, that stings more.
The car sale analogy is bad. Hospitals are more like car workshops, another place where you don't know upfront the visit cost (until the mechanic actually finishes the fix).
A year ago I found out I had a brain tumor the size of a lemon. Thankfully not cancer and they removed it right away, but between surgery and radiation it was around $400,000. After insurance my out-of-pocket came to around $5k. Nevertheless extremely stressful seeing that bill in the mail, then the relief of insurance shortly thereafter “this charge has been approved”.
I’m grateful for my insurance, no doubt, but simultaneously saddened for those other Americans without this same coverage. Then frustrated by the back and forth of bill, insurance company negotiations with hospital, out of pocket max, copays, and occasional appeals necessary to ensure I didn’t spend more than $5k. Thankfully I have a mother-in-law who worked in healthcare and battled the same stuff with her own ailing parents.
There must be a better way that doesn’t require literal professional healthcare family members and everyone to have the time and expertise to dig into every question. Oh wait! The whole rest of the developed world and much of the developing world has it built into their normal tax structure and gets equally good and sometimes better care than US?
Ridiculous the objections to implementing this domestically 😢
I got a bill for shoulder surgery and anesthesia (over $1k), but I just went for a check up LOL. They took it off after I called them and had to argue that I never had surgery. Truly, truly a scam.
As a kid, the US fascinated me... as an adult, the US is still fascinating to me 😂
As a German, with an excellent healthcare insurance I find this hillarious
There's literally a law that says you can demand the cost before a procedure. It was passed pretty recently, but its there.
Should just make healthcare free you know like the rest of the world not to mention get an itemized bill and then debate them on certain things like I seen someone be charged over $300 for a Tylenol
This is a big reason why developing standardized healthcare is so important. A nationalized committee could set maximum prices for procedures and empower the consumer.
except we already have that, and it is called CMS fee schedule, issue is providers don’t have to accept it for commercial members so they basically ask for different rate or methods of payments.. and simply opt out of seeing government insured where they have to accept those rates
A committee should be established to teach you basic economics.
i always ask if its free before they start doing stuff.
I live in Mexico, the medical system For workers You don't pay anything for being hospitalized, it's free For student For all levels including college, My brother broke bot feet in motorcycle crash, we didnt pay anythin except the material, and we pay medical supplies because he hadnt any kind of insurance....
In those countries with universal healthcare even private medical service off the insurance aren’t that expensive.
Sure, I can understand why in an emergency situation it's nearly impossible to know what procedures and level of care will be needed, much less what the total cost will be. But why is that so difficult for something done routinely and with significant advance knowledge, like an ACL repair surgery?
If prices were open and apparent, it would destroy the single payer insurance agenda. The free-market would work as it was designed, price creates competition competition drives quality and lowers price
Wait! So, you're telling it's not just my family facing this issue? 😂 In all seriousness, it was shocking for us to see this happening after living in another country where the quality of healthcare is bad, but there was nothing wrong with the billing system and no such errors (fraud?) Why can't this be fixed? Isn't this more important than someone's sex tape?
And error of an itemised medical bill can also be things that they have not included so you could end up paying less than what you should of have
Are we going to ignore the fact that Julia got a tattoo? It's so cool!!
“Hey body can you stop trying to actively unalive me over a little bit of shrimp cross-contamination for a minute so I can haggle the prices and decide if I’d rather just let you continue or get the LIFESAVING treatment that will leave me broke. Kthxbai”
Pay the most for healthcare in the developed world for the worst outcomes.
Wow!!! I can’t imagine a world or a country without a health care plan....
That means that just getting for too long you can actually lose everything you had built so far...!!!
just trash em and charge it to the game
Imagine being bill bombed for having a low credit score and denied service for high credit score...
Unless the only number to call on the bill including general number sends you to the hospitals in house collection agency, to which giving the invoice number isn't enough. They want soc#, address, full legal name, birth date and they tell you anything and everything you say will and can be used against you for collections.
Michigan hospitals will not give itemized bills unless you fully subjugate yourself first. Even then you may never receive it until the hospital already placed you in collections...30 days.
Wait, if medical bills were to be simplified and settled more efficiently in the US, then who’s gonna pay for all the payday/predatory lenders and pointless industrial admin who always step in to ‘help’?…
Sometimes the wait for the bill can be months to a year. I once got a bill (full of errors) after a year. Turns out I owed nothing too.
You would think if I owed you money, you would want that money.
I called to pay my grandmother’s final hospital expenses. I asked if it was the final bill and they refused to say yes or no. They danced around the question instead. You’d think they’d want to tell the truth and get paid.
What really pisses me off is that sometimes, they wait a year to bill you... and sometimes, they send you to collections within two months.
They should just automatically give you an itemized bill, but they mostly don't.
I'm from a country that doesn't tip & that legislates businesses must advertise a sales tax inclusive price. When living in North America, I felt uncomfortable not knowing how much I should/must pay at a store or restaurant until afterwards. The only thing I'd change in my country is that real estate is allowed to be advertised with no indication of the price - you then might pay due diligence costs on something you can't afford.
If you're going to stores and restaurants that don't show prices upfront, you're not too worried about how much things cost. You good 😂 otherwise just ask
@lailas.3205 - stores have a price but it seemed a minefield of different sales taxes - sometimes there'd be state tax only; federal tax only or both.
At a restaurant, it's unclear how much is an acceptable tip when it's not your culture.
If I go to a restaurant at home, I don't pay a cent more than what's on the menu.
Because it's not a country but a company. USA Inc.™
Simple law for all trade, purchases and services, either price is stated beforehand and agreed on or it is free.
I paid the majority of my medical bill over the course of 10 years (getting a payment plan was a feat itself) and now it’s on “pause” which means I *probably* won’t have to pay anymore but they said it’s still possible. 🎉
Why negotiate when we should be putting hospital CEOs in prison?
When choosing that car you’re often forced to choose one because that’s what you need.
US citizens you guys need to get universal healthcare already. You really can’t call yourself first world with this system. How can the richest country be so behind??
75% to 80% were not errors... Those are intentional scams...
It’s my least favorite part about working in healthcare- it’s a business- and we are all getting screwed by it. My patients and I’m always underpaid for what I do.
I reinjured my tire ACL yesterday and went to the ER in severe pain . They did an x ray but no mri. They said it wasn’t considered an emergency and my insurance wouldn’t cover it. So they recommended me to make an appt with my doctor that did my surgery. I fucken hate USA
If I was American medical and educational bills wouldn’t mean I’d probably be in massive debt and I just ain’t about that life
Having to worry about billing for healthcare is infuriating. Government should really be able to do something about it. Not socialism, just capitalism without obscenity.
Simple. If the bill is just crazy, cut off all contact.
Or pay $20 a month, and don't answer collectors.
It’s actually how can buying works as well if you’re financing it but you get paperwork
That's why nobody will bat an eye when AI start causing doctor's salaries to go down
Disgusting that Healthcare is not included in life
It's how the items in the gas stations are
American "dream"....yeah 😢
what a shame for the US
It makes me laugh how Americans get so itate when the idea of nationalising the healthcare system is brought up. Suddenly everyone's a socialist or a communist. But mention to them the public school system already being tax payer-funded and suddenly there's silence. America's entire healthcare system is run according to the whims of the insurance industry.
As a Norwegian... CHEESUS FORKING CHROIST.
I live in Europe, this isn't even an issue over here....
Something i heard, im not sure if its true, but the reason why there so high is that the medical insurance brings it down saying thats the max they will pay, so that the hospital can mark it as a loss and therefore a tax write off
The moment I say "Hi" (considered minimum 15 mins) to a pt its already 50$ for our facility. Its billed 1 hour by the way. This is precovid btw.