Apologies all for the 'Welcome to TheUntoldPast' at the start! For some reason I put the wrong intro title in on the video for the wrong channel! Must have been the WW2 cross-over! I hope you're all well.
I act as a tour guide for the CWGC at Brookwood Military Cemetery and tell the story of Theodore Schurch to my groups. The question of why he is commemorated there always arises. The CWGC policy is that all qualifying deaths are commemorated irrespective of the manner of death and that they are remembered by name either on a headstone or, if no headstone had been established then on a memorial. As a serving member of HM forces Schurch qualified for commemoration. Following his execution his body was, as was the custom at the time, buried in an unmarked grave within the prison walls. Thus, not having a marked grave Schurch’s name was added to the memorial to the missing of the Second World War at Brookwood. Panel 17, column 3. His inclusion certainly causes some emotive reaction but it is worth noting that, at the time of the memorial’s inauguration no one questioned the decision to include him. Thankyou for posting this video and bringing this story to wider audience.
In the same way that CWCG headstones from WW1 do not differentiate between those who were executed for, eg desertion, and those who were killed in action.
@ Quite correct, you can stand in front of the headstone of a man executed by firing squad but would not know. There is only one headstone that makes reference to the fate of the man buried in that grave. Pte Albert Ingham of the Manchester Regt. His father, having discovered the fate of his son elected to have a personal inscription added to the foot of the headstone as was his right. The inscription reads, “Shot at dawn, one of the first to enlist, a worthy zone to his father”.
Not all faced justice. As a Police Officer cica 1990 . I had to find a suitable observation house that overlooked a location that was dealing drugs. After looking at adresses and occupiers, one stood out. The occupier had been arrested after 1945. The man in question like Schurch was a POW, but joined up with a small band of men in the British Free Corps [SS] He didnt even face Prison, as far as I could find out. Funny that, like a lot in the Establishment in 1930`s and even up to September 1939 were supporters of Hitler and his gang. A case in point , Just look at how Sir, yes Sir Oswald Mosley and wife Diana, Lady Mosley, nee Mitford were treated during WW2. Sorry nealy forgot About Edward the Duke of Windsor.
"Funny that, like a lot in the Establishment in 1930`s and even up to September 1939 were supporters of Hitler and his gang.". What is even more staggering is that the BUF were up and running again by 1947.
Dribble, If the members of the British league of Fascists were brought to trail, then 99 of the Great British aristocracy would have been imprisoned along with a large collection of Great British Buiness figures too. I was trained in martial arts by one former Gtreat British so called traitor during the 1970's. A Gent by the name of Eric Pleasants. Look him up. He was captured by the Soviet military police in Poland doing a strongman act in a circus when they did an identity check. He spent a few years in Soviet gulag, then was released to come back to the UK long after the trails were over. This saved his life as to put him on trail would have cause Great embarrassment to the British government. He was told to keep quite and his head down. He join the army and got caught by the North Koreans . During the Korean .
There was at least one member of the British Free Corps, recruited from amongst POWs that was part of MI6. It was their job to report back on members and subvert them if possible. They were so successful that the Germans eventually disbanded the British Free Corps, as they were never used as a unit and had become a laughing stock.
@@0ldb1ll i read the guys book 30 odd years ago! it was called in durance vile. in fact he was so convincing he had quite a rough time when the allies turned up.he kept his cover to be with the other freikorps captors to furthur incriminate them. he got a lot of rough treatment.he suffered severe mental problems post war as although exonerated and undercover mi6 insisted he give his evidence in camera.no one knew outside the agency that he was in fact a hero.worst still due to being part of mi6 they wouldnt let him tell what he was really doing.so he had a hard time in civillian life as many treated him like a traitor.his book waited years to be published due to the official secrets act. so he was unable to tell his story until just before his death. a very sad outcome for a brave man.
The fact this turncoat is commemorated in the Brookwood Memorial reminded of another turncoat executed for espionage and is also commemorated. Captain Patrick Stanley Vaughan Heenan was serving in the British Indian Army and when he was caught passing info to the Japanese during an air raid, he was sentenced to death. Before the battle of Singapore ended, he taunted the guards about how he'd be free and they would become prisoners, so they dragged him to the docks, put a single bullet to his head and the corpse was tossed unceremoniously in the harbour. His name was listed in the WWII memorial at Kranji War Cemetery, and families of other deceased personnel in 1998 wanted to have his name removed. His name is still registered in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission database.
@@167curly Quite a few former members of the BUF served in the British armed forces in WW2. There may have been more than 30,000 members of the BUF at its height and jailing them all was an impossibility.
@@167curlyAND IT SEEMS WE STILL HAVEN'T LEARN THE LESSONS, AS THE UK AND THE WEST IN GENERAL JUST MAKES IT SO EASY FOR TRAITORS AND ENEMIES TO DO THEIR BIDDING, IN THE NAME OF HUMAN RIGHTS WE ALLOW ALL KIND OF POISONOUS EVIL TO COME INTO THE WEST,FROM ISLAMIC TERRORISTS TO RUSSIAN AGENTS AND FOREIGN RAPISTS AND DRUG DEALERS WITH NO LOVE OR ALLEGIANCE TO THE COUNTRY ONLY HATRED,BUT WE MUST TREAT THEM WELL,AND RESPECT THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS. IN THE COLD WAR A TRAITOR WAS A TRAITOR. IF WE ALLOW OTHERS TO CORRUPT OUR HARD EARNED RIGHTS AND FREEDOM'S, SOON WE WILL LOOSE THEM FOR OURSELVES. WHO WOULD OPEN THEIR DOORS TO US IF WE EVER NEED IT?!
Schurch was an agent of Italian military intelligence before he went to Tobruk, indeed it is suggested that his handler even suggest that he join the RASC.
@@ricardolorrio8228 I don't think he was in prison throughout the war,he was obviously a fascist sympathiser,I think he was protected by higher ups,Prince Edward was a bit too close to Nazis and an embarrassment, Hitler thought he could keep Britain out of the war due to people like that.
Although he did not admit it , once Oswald was arrested he was a source of information on the British facists in return for not being reduced to a lower social status.
It's a myth that Pierrepoint or any executioner needed to meet a prisoner in order to work out their height and weight. All of that information was readily available as it had been compiled when the prisoner was captured, and was updated as necessary. This myth largely springs from a folk song written about the execution of Derek Bentley, in which the lyrics state that "the executioner shook his hand to guess his weight". Capital punishment in Britain was by this point a highly structured and scientific process which, barring the odd miscalculation, generally never went wrong. All of the calculations of height, weight and drop length were worked out in advance - Pierrepoint already knew and had planned for all of this - and so the executions were always over in seconds. The fastest execution on record took seven seconds, from the moment the executioners entered the adjacent condemned cell to the moment the lever was pulled. Speed was considered of the essence, because the faster the process could be carried out, the less likely it was that the prisoner would resist. The idea was to have them out of the condemned cell and dead on the end of the rope before it even registered with them what was happening.
He liked to observe the prisoner through the judas hole. The executioner arrived at the prison the day before an execution. If the prisoner had a strong muscular neck they would get a slightly longer a drop
To the Narrator - ======================= you have improved over time, but work is still needed, both in the way you speak ( as comments below attest ), and the text you narrate. Look at the text I write. One chunk of data per line. Quick to write. Easy to redraft. Quick to understand. You may find it a useful technique for your video text. Keep improving! /
"HawHaw was Irish" Actually, he was American, having been born in New York. His family moved to Ireland a number of years after his birth. Although his father was a Catholic, both parents were staunch Unionists, as was Joyce himself.
@@Earhairy I doubt if Haw Haw regarded himself as American. As Wellington once said "being born in a stable doesn't make one a horse". It would have been pointless to claim to be Irish, as Ireland was under British rule when he was born.
An interesting and informative program, but, sorry, the narrators voice is awful! That slow, drawled, rising inflection at the end of each sentence an offensive assault on the eeeaaarrs.
It's a natural accent insofar as it's a regional English one. What do you think about all the American women with their fake ''vocal fry'' (creaky voice)?
Somewhat ironically, Britain now executes no one, but imprisons hundreds, if not thousands, on trivial charges, such as posting online in tribute a deceased friend's favorite rap song. "Sic transit gloria mundi"
He was a dual citizen so what wrong did he do. I mean we have plenty of dual citizens stabbing us in the back with impunity. Maybe he had the wrong dual citizenship????
Err, a member of HM Armed Forces betraying the country that he signed up to fight for by attempting to get information of use to the enemy. Do I need to explain it any further? It's like you're making excuses for an obnoxious nazi🤦
An interesting question,especially bearing in mind that,like in most other areas local police,in this case your local police Bobby notified the few Jews in the islands for deportment(I think nine survived the camps)and made sure it was done. Secondly islanders have long memories,just a few years back archaeologists looking for the mass graves of slave workers from Russia had every obstacle put in their way and had to finally give up the search.
It's a natural accent insofar as it's a regional English one. What do you think about all the American women with their fake ''vocal fry'' (creaky voice)?
@@simonh6371 "What do you think about all the American women with their fake ''vocal fry'' (creaky voice)?" My God, but that is so fucking annoying. What's even more annoying is the preponderance of young English women, with tiresome predictability, copying them.
@@simonh6371 "What do you think about all the American women with their fake ''vocal fry'' (creaky voice)?" That is so annoying. And with tiresome predictability, you hear lots of young English women adopting the same voice.
Apologies all for the 'Welcome to TheUntoldPast' at the start! For some reason I put the wrong intro title in on the video for the wrong channel! Must have been the WW2 cross-over! I hope you're all well.
There were no tears shed for Theodore Schurch .......
I act as a tour guide for the CWGC at Brookwood Military Cemetery and tell the story of Theodore Schurch to my groups. The question of why he is commemorated there always arises.
The CWGC policy is that all qualifying deaths are commemorated irrespective of the manner of death and that they are remembered by name either on a headstone or, if no headstone had been established then on a memorial. As a serving member of HM forces Schurch qualified for commemoration. Following his execution his body was, as was the custom at the time, buried in an unmarked grave within the prison walls. Thus, not having a marked grave Schurch’s name was added to the memorial to the missing of the Second World War at Brookwood. Panel 17, column 3.
His inclusion certainly causes some emotive reaction but it is worth noting that, at the time of the memorial’s inauguration no one questioned the decision to include him.
Thankyou for posting this video and bringing this story to wider audience.
In the same way that CWCG headstones from WW1 do not differentiate between those who were executed for, eg desertion, and those who were killed in action.
@ Quite correct, you can stand in front of the headstone of a man executed by firing squad but would not know. There is only one headstone that makes reference to the fate of the man buried in that grave. Pte Albert Ingham of the Manchester Regt. His father, having discovered the fate of his son elected to have a personal inscription added to the foot of the headstone as was his right. The inscription reads, “Shot at dawn, one of the first to enlist, a worthy zone to his father”.
Thanks for your comment mate, and clearing this up. I'll have to come down to visit you and take a tour!
Not all faced justice. As a Police Officer cica 1990 . I had to find a suitable observation house that overlooked a location that was dealing drugs. After looking at adresses and occupiers, one stood out. The occupier had been arrested after 1945. The man in question like Schurch was a POW, but joined up with a small band of men in the British Free Corps [SS] He didnt even face Prison, as far as I could find out. Funny that, like a lot in the Establishment in 1930`s and even up to September 1939 were supporters of Hitler and his gang. A case in point , Just look at how Sir, yes Sir Oswald Mosley and wife Diana, Lady Mosley, nee Mitford were treated during WW2. Sorry nealy forgot About Edward the Duke of Windsor.
"Funny that, like a lot in the Establishment in 1930`s and even up to September 1939 were supporters of Hitler and his gang.". What is even more staggering is that the BUF were up and running again by 1947.
Dribble, If the members of the British league of Fascists were brought to trail, then 99 of the Great British aristocracy would have been imprisoned along with a large collection of Great British Buiness figures too.
I was trained in martial arts by one former Gtreat British so called traitor during the 1970's. A Gent by the name of Eric Pleasants.
Look him up.
He was captured by the Soviet military police in Poland doing a strongman act in a circus when they did an identity check.
He spent a few years in Soviet gulag, then was released to come back to the UK long after the trails were over. This saved his life as to put him on trail would have cause Great embarrassment to the British government.
He was told to keep quite and his head down.
He join the army and got caught by the North Koreans .
During the Korean .
The German DNA is stronger than the occupied contries, Eric!
There was at least one member of the British Free Corps, recruited from amongst POWs that was part of MI6. It was their job to report back on members and subvert them if possible. They were so successful that the Germans eventually disbanded the British Free Corps, as they were never used as a unit and had become a laughing stock.
@@0ldb1ll i read the guys book 30 odd years ago! it was called in durance vile. in fact he was so convincing he had quite a rough time when the allies turned up.he kept his cover to be with the other freikorps captors to furthur incriminate them. he got a lot of rough treatment.he suffered severe mental problems post war as although exonerated and undercover mi6 insisted he give his evidence in camera.no one knew outside the agency that he was in fact a hero.worst still due to being part of mi6 they wouldnt let him tell what he was really doing.so he had a hard time in civillian life as many treated him like a traitor.his book waited years to be published due to the official secrets act. so he was unable to tell his story until just before his death. a very sad outcome for a brave man.
The fact this turncoat is commemorated in the Brookwood Memorial reminded of another turncoat executed for espionage and is also commemorated. Captain Patrick Stanley Vaughan Heenan was serving in the British Indian Army and when he was caught passing info to the Japanese during an air raid, he was sentenced to death. Before the battle of Singapore ended, he taunted the guards about how he'd be free and they would become prisoners, so they dragged him to the docks, put a single bullet to his head and the corpse was tossed unceremoniously in the harbour. His name was listed in the WWII memorial at Kranji War Cemetery, and families of other deceased personnel in 1998 wanted to have his name removed. His name is still registered in the Commonwealth War Graves Commission database.
What was one of Oswald Moseley's British Fascists doing in the British Army when he should have been in Prison?
@@167curly Quite a few former members of the BUF served in the British armed forces in WW2. There may have been more than 30,000 members of the BUF at its height and jailing them all was an impossibility.
@@167curlyAND IT SEEMS WE STILL HAVEN'T LEARN THE LESSONS, AS THE UK AND THE WEST IN GENERAL JUST MAKES IT SO EASY FOR TRAITORS AND ENEMIES TO DO THEIR BIDDING, IN THE NAME OF HUMAN RIGHTS WE ALLOW ALL KIND OF POISONOUS EVIL TO COME INTO THE WEST,FROM ISLAMIC TERRORISTS TO RUSSIAN AGENTS AND FOREIGN RAPISTS AND DRUG DEALERS WITH NO LOVE OR ALLEGIANCE TO THE COUNTRY ONLY HATRED,BUT WE MUST TREAT THEM WELL,AND RESPECT THEIR HUMAN RIGHTS. IN THE COLD WAR A TRAITOR WAS A TRAITOR. IF WE ALLOW OTHERS TO CORRUPT OUR HARD EARNED RIGHTS AND FREEDOM'S, SOON WE WILL LOOSE THEM FOR OURSELVES. WHO WOULD OPEN THEIR DOORS TO US IF WE EVER NEED IT?!
Lord Haw Haw’s broadcast was called ‘ Germany Calling ‘
London Calling is an album & single by The Clash
And?
William Joyce was also Irish
Schurch was an agent of Italian military intelligence before he went to Tobruk, indeed it is suggested that his handler even suggest that he join the RASC.
Thank you very much. God bless always Philadelphia USA 🇺🇸 Nostrovia 🙏🏥🌎⚡️⚔️
GOD really ?
Yes! Another video! These are great for listening to while working
Thanks mate!
Why wasn't Oswald punished?
he wasn't a spy.... he was detained in prison thought-out the war ....
@@ricardolorrio8228 I don't think he was in prison throughout the war,he was obviously a fascist sympathiser,I think he was protected by higher ups,Prince Edward was a bit too close to Nazis and an embarrassment, Hitler thought he could keep Britain out of the war due to people like that.
Oswald wasn't even stripped of his Knighthood.
@@geraldperyman6535 Probably because the upper echelons had the same views
Although he did not admit it , once Oswald was arrested he was a source of information on the British facists in return for not being reduced to a lower social status.
It's a myth that Pierrepoint or any executioner needed to meet a prisoner in order to work out their height and weight. All of that information was readily available as it had been compiled when the prisoner was captured, and was updated as necessary. This myth largely springs from a folk song written about the execution of Derek Bentley, in which the lyrics state that "the executioner shook his hand to guess his weight". Capital punishment in Britain was by this point a highly structured and scientific process which, barring the odd miscalculation, generally never went wrong. All of the calculations of height, weight and drop length were worked out in advance - Pierrepoint already knew and had planned for all of this - and so the executions were always over in seconds. The fastest execution on record took seven seconds, from the moment the executioners entered the adjacent condemned cell to the moment the lever was pulled. Speed was considered of the essence, because the faster the process could be carried out, the less likely it was that the prisoner would resist. The idea was to have them out of the condemned cell and dead on the end of the rope before it even registered with them what was happening.
He liked to observe the prisoner through the judas hole. The executioner arrived at the prison the day before an execution. If the prisoner had a strong muscular neck they would get a slightly longer a drop
The Brits were as bloody-minded as the Germans. Ask the Indians- or the Irish.
and Ask the Coloured G.I.'s how they were treated by their fellow American Servicemen !!!!!
It appears that your suitability for execution depended on your social status
He was half swiss who are pro German
1:42 either “they became” or “the had become”
To the Narrator -
=======================
you have improved over time,
but
work is still needed,
both in the way you speak
( as comments below attest ),
and the text you narrate.
Look at the text I write.
One chunk of data
per line.
Quick to write.
Easy to redraft.
Quick to understand.
You may find it a useful technique
for your video text.
Keep improving!
/
Just a SERIOUSLY awful narrator……can’t watch!
Extending the last syllable of almost every sentence is a growing and irritating trend.
Ain't A.I. great?!?
HawHaw was Irish
"HawHaw was Irish" Actually, he was American, having been born in New York. His family moved to Ireland a number of years after his birth. Although his father was a Catholic, both parents were staunch Unionists, as was Joyce himself.
Many yanks have oirish descendants!
@@Earhairy I doubt if Haw Haw regarded himself as American. As Wellington once said "being born in a stable doesn't make one a horse". It would have been pointless to claim to be Irish, as Ireland was under British rule when he was born.
Of course Mosley got away scot free.
An interesting and informative program, but, sorry, the narrators voice is awful! That slow, drawled, rising inflection at the end of each sentence an offensive assault on the eeeaaarrs.
Thanks for your comment...
It's a natural accent insofar as it's a regional English one. What do you think about all the American women with their fake ''vocal fry'' (creaky voice)?
So you were interested and informed by this video?
Agree to disagree! His accent and intonation are fine by me. Quite pleasant, actually!
Somewhat ironically, Britain now executes no one, but imprisons hundreds, if not thousands, on trivial charges, such as posting online in tribute a deceased friend's favorite rap
song.
"Sic transit gloria mundi"
The same people who would have been in the BUF.
His name sounds german.
He was a dual citizen so what wrong did he do. I mean we have plenty of dual citizens stabbing us in the back with impunity. Maybe he had the wrong dual citizenship????
Err, a member of HM Armed Forces betraying the country that he signed up to fight for by attempting to get information of use to the enemy. Do I need to explain it any further? It's like you're making excuses for an obnoxious nazi🤦
Bloody awful commentator, really annoying voice. I only watched this for 2 minutes, and had to switch it off.
That's a pity as it is an interesting documentary.
At least it is a real person. Those AI ones are usually also AI scripted and and are filled with cliches and repetition.
Can not stand this robot voice.
Unfortunately for you its a real person with a terrible accent
Why weren’t the Channel Islands Police force , convicted as they willingly helped the SS on all the islands,
No answer to that one but thanks for mentioning it. Thankfully Hitler never made it to the mainland.
An interesting question,especially bearing in mind that,like in most other areas local police,in this case your local police Bobby notified the few Jews in the islands for deportment(I think nine survived the camps)and made sure it was done. Secondly islanders have long memories,just a few years back archaeologists looking for the mass graves of slave workers from Russia had every obstacle put in their way and had to finally give up the search.
Sorry spellchecker, NONE survived the camps not nine.
Trailor or just didn't agree.Just look at the UK today.
Traitor.
Not the UK anymore.
Traitor. Pretty easy really.
@@Eric-kn4ynI’m in the UK i can confirm it’s still the UK 🇬🇧
Definitely a traitor. Trying to gain information of use to the enemy, that's traitorous behaviour, not just a "disagreement".🤦
Vindictive british
What a genuinely stupid comment.
We where at war..
@@johnselby9714seem to think your at war with palastine now - can’t remember them shooting at ye !
@@josephruane799 don’t know what your talking about ,I was on about World War Two .
In what way? You're talking nonsense.
Oh god that narrators voice, drives me nuts and switches to anyone else
Jump on the bandwagon mate to have a pop. Why are you and why have you been subscribed for a while then?
It's a natural accent insofar as it's a regional English one. What do you think about all the American women with their fake ''vocal fry'' (creaky voice)?
@@simonh6371 "What do you think about all the American women with their fake ''vocal fry'' (creaky voice)?" My God, but that is so fucking annoying. What's even more annoying is the preponderance of young English women, with tiresome predictability, copying them.
Found the American
@@simonh6371 "What do you think about all the American women with their fake ''vocal fry'' (creaky voice)?" That is so annoying. And with tiresome predictability, you hear lots of young English women adopting the same voice.
Are you sure his name wasn't Stamer.
What a dumb moronic comment.
Thankfully Chamberlain was replaced by Churchill.