I grew up in a fundamental Baptist church my entire life. Legalism plagued the church. I cannot tell you how much I truly relate to Jingers story. Being a people pleaser mixed with legalism is a slippery toxic slope. I have left that church and it has been SO hard, but freeing in Jesus. I’m glad that those chains have been lifted and my relationship with Christ has transformed for the better since. Thank you for this episode. 🫶
I just had an epiphany while listening, I’m 64 yrs old and really don’t have any really close friends. I grew up in a home that had to be pristine at all times or it was a “mess”. After I got married, I never would invite anyone over unless my home/kids were clean. I missed out on building relationships. 😢
It's not too late Jackie! The Lord convicted me that is okay for my house to not be perfect because then I'm showing other women it's okay to not be perfect and spotless. 😊 the hardest part is just starting.
Jinger, being brought up to live modestly, but never allowed the space to find the truth for herself and never having a true personal & spiritual experience, married a man much akin to herself. Jeremy, a good man with right intentions, but never a true spiritual experience. They are good people. Jinger needs to forget the Bill G experience & actually get into the scripture & prayer. I am not a follower of BG knowing only what Jinger has told. I do know the Bible teaches modesty. It actually does exhort us to present ourselves a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto God. Holy? Sacrifice? Bathing suits like Jinger presented herself in n the photos were neither. That’s only one occurrence. She means so well, but Jeremy at the far opposite side of the spectrum concerning modesty offered his explanation of all the scripture (out of context) why he is the one that understands scripture. We all can be susceptible to this. It is proven that if put in the needed company and we hear their explanations time after time that it will start making more sense. Then our desires as sin natured beings will start wanting to believe it…& it becomes easier. Just because a belief gains popularity and becomes accepted by many doesn’t mean that it is scripture. We can see that is true from Bible times to the days of TV evangelicals. This is the truth. I believe unarguable. Pray. Pray until you have a mind, heart, and soul changing experience. Pray until you know. You will know. Pray daily & read the scripture. It will beseech you toward a holy life in all parts of your life. Of course, we cannot do this until the spirit deals with us. That is a real experience. Without the spirit of Christ living inside us we will not have a desire to live righteously in this present time. What am I saying? Jinger is in as much deception now as she was led by Bill G. doctrine. Most every deception and manipulation will have good points, but we cannot go with good points. If we want to be saved when we are called from this world then we must worship God in spirit and truth. It must be both or it cannot work. Spirit AND truth.
Wow, Jinger. You blessed me so much with that story about saying yes to a friend coming over regardless how your house looked. Having that mindset in all sorts of situations, is such a hindrance in true closeness with other people. Thank you for sharing!
I praise God for His grace and mercy that Jinger would be saved and still love Christ even though she came from an environment in which so much was misconstrued about Scripture and godly living. Beautiful testimony.
Legalism? It’s Biblical standards and truths that she has shunned and campaigned against, at the expense of humiliation and disrespect towards her parents.
Regarding the open door ministry, I finally realized I was sinning against my sister when I deceived her into thinking my house was always perfect. I was taking part in making her think everyone else has it all together, that there was something wrong with her for being normal. I realized by not faking perfection, I was actually ministering to her. Come on in! I’m just like you!
I grew up under what I call Gothard lite, because we were able to wear pants, but still lived under so many of his teachings. Looking at the aftermath it was the perfect formula for spiritual and in some cases sexual and physical abuse. I was constantly looked down on in my teens because even though I tried to be "modest" it wasn't ever good enough. I'm so glad in my late teens God pulled our family out of that teaching but still to this day I keep noticing decades later that it had a very negative impact on me and am praying to work through those things and yes, one of my biggest hangups is caring way too much what others think.
Jinger has grown from a timid reluctant to speak to such an articulate, confident woman. After watching several of her interviews I noticed something so cool. She speaks clearly, unrehearsed and very very few "umm" "umm" "umms". It's so easy to listen to her because of that.
@@TheMarkandheidi Yes Jeromy worked with her to get it right! He is great at promoting her to make money! They have had how many houses and what does he really make? She is still being used by a man!
I needed this episode. I have a 7 month old and I’ve been struggling to keep the house tidy. I’m not an organized person in general so it’s even harder now! My mom was always so organized and had a perfect house and I could never be that way. I wish she would have taught me some of her skills but she was such a perfectionist she would just brush me off because it wasn’t as good as she could do it. I’ve struggled so much lately with being inadequate because of the messy house. I’m taking time every day to work on it and I’m getting there but still. I really needed to hear this! ❤
What a good talk. My views on modesty changed when I moved to a Muslim country. What I thought was the golden standard was immodest over there!! So. I came back to the states with more grace and a different perspective. It’s more about the state of my heart when I put the clothes on, and my purpose for wearing them. The rules concerning the little things change in each culture. Modesty is an issue of the heart.
This one hits differently… I definitely relate to caring too much about what people think of my parenting or my home that I don’t invite people into the chaos. Something that needs to change to build deeper relationships!
I never really followed any of the Duggar shows, but I remember the few episodes I did watch, Jinger always stood out to me from the other kids. I don’t know why. But I’m glad to see how she’s grown spiritually. ❤️
Great episode. I'm gonna invite someone over to my imperfect home right after this episode ends. The Lord has put a specific person on my mind while listening.
Jill and Derik I feel have hate in their heart and trying to stick it to their parents…where Jeremy and Jinger are true in heart and love their family and try to have a discussion and not be so defensive… I get more from Jinger and Jeremy then I get from Jill in a religious aspect and I get more gossip and anger and oh yeah mom and dad I did this too… just to make sure you are mad at us and I’ll tweet on social media so they know that we don’t like you. I’m not following Jill anymore because I feel she is super jealous of her sisters successes
@@dccd673 Because they tell the truth! Jeromy trained Jinger how to avoid blaming her parents! His church is not much better than Gothard's! He just found a way to finally promote her to make big money! She stepped out of one man's control into another man's control! Remember those awful cooking vlogs and the new clothes vlogs? Writing about herself is what works! She is the bread winner! How much does he make? Who's money buys their homes?
A lot of the people pleaser people I know are the ones who can’t speak the truth or “talk politics” or confront sin because they can’t handle people’s reactions. They label themselves peacemakers, but more than often are just afraid to deal with confrontation or standing for something unpopular.
Yes! I’ve heard it said that there’s a difference between a peacekeeper and a peacemaker. Peacemakers aren’t afraid to do what it takes to MAKE peace. Peacekeepers are too timid to confront real issues and don’t actually create real peace. They’re just passive.
I wish I could've sat in on this conversation. I was raised similarly to Ginger. Learning the difference between having a conviction and being condemned or convinced to do something are totally different things.
The Bible never said a woman had to wear skirts/dresses. It only says to dress modestly. The Bible mentions the Proverbs 31 woman, but it also mentions someone like Lydia- who owned her own business and was able to fund Paul's ministry. So whenever someone tries to tell you what you should/ should not wear, do- study the Bible and deny incorperating anything that goes against the word of God.
Thanks for sharing, what great podcast! I watched this after watching Jeremy & Jinger's podcast. I was once a people pleaser and changed all that around 2005, I am now 50 years old. Cannot read the book People Pleaser it is going to reach & help so many people.
Urgent state of emergency please join me in prayer for all those affected families children animals massive devastation in California they desperately need your prayers please pray for them God bless you all...
It’s really wonderful that she’s been able to keep her faith in Christ. So many times people who grow up in similar environments lose their faith. What an amazing young woman.
I’ve been battling so much with this right now and God has really shown me how I do this. I definitely shut people out unless I feel like I have it “all together” but the main area I struggle is in my marriage. My husband will get into this fits when he doesn’t get his way or whatever it may be and he just shuts down and will ignore me, refuse to talk about it etc, just completely avoid the situation. And I take it so personally because I just want him to be happy etc and I will let it stress me out and bring me down. Now I’ve been working on trying to communicate but if he’s not giving his all or effort then I’m not either. Whatever he’s feeling is between him and God.
He apparently doesn't respect you! He is self-centered and needs a mother not a wife! You are right to ignore him! You are not his mother and he needs to grow up!
Thanks so much for the encouragement Jinger ❤️. I’m a very similar person. God has always been working on my people-pleasing since I first came to know him at the age of 13. He has totally changed my life in that area, but I still struggle in the area of inviting people into my disgusting and messy home. I’m the only one in my circle with more than three kids (I have 5) and I always feel like no one understands how impossible it is to keep up with the 5-kid mess. My house is horrifically messy within 3 hours of being beautifully cleaned. I’ve known for a long time that it doesn’t matter how messy my house is or if people give me grace for my mess. I’ve known that I need to let go of that and be willing to look weak and messy in favor of what will last forever; relationships and people. This is a good encouragement for me to let go of my own will and serve the Lord with my messy house.
As a recovering people pleaser, the most valuable lessons I've learned are about healthy boundaries and learning to say NO. I would really like to hear about how you developed these disciplines in your recovery, Jinger.
Allie, you are one of my role models (even though I'm older than you 😉) for not staying silent when the truth is sure to cost you something. You have shown the way to so many of us and we love you for it💗
One caveat to the whole pants issue is that not wearing pants isn't always an instance of legalism. Legalism pertains to following man made rules in order to gain God's favor or add to ones' salvation. Some women who choose not to wear pants do it out of love for God and their brothers in the Lord; to obey the biblical principles of modesty and distinct femininity. Christian women, by and large, understood those principles and didn't view obeying them as a burden until 20th century radical feminism became acceptable and eventually, the rule. Of course there are some women who solely follow the fad of whatever congregation they are a part of in not wearing pants, but some of us are more theologically grounded than that and do it in love, not legalism. 👍
Amen 🙏🏽 Any time people see someone dressed modestly it’s “legalism”. So sad. It’s funny you mentioned women pre 20th century. The world has changed sooo rapidly. The adversary at work. Yehoshua HaMashiach is coming soon. Acts 2:38 repent, be baptized in the Name Yehoshua HaMashiach and receive the Holy Ghost. Live like you love Him!! 😊
They’re specifically addressing the teaching that Jinger was raised with, which taught that women could not accomplish modesty with pants and that wearing skirts/ dresses was the only way to please God with your clothing options. To your point, Jinger also already explained in the episode that it wasn’t so much a matter of the literal clothing, but also the heart posture behind it (when she discussed the event for the young single adults). I don’t think either of these women suggested that not wearing pants is always an instance of legalism.
I was thinking the same thing, every Christian religion followed the teaching of gender distinction. It’s only been in the last 50 that women have cast that teaching aside in Christian churches in mass. It’s not a coincidence that it follows the feminist movement and the influence of the entertainment industry.
Well said! I wear dresses and skirts as a form of worship to God. I am honoring His design for a woman to be distinctly different from men. For centuries this practice has kept the perversion of genders at bay.
Thanks for the excellent interview (1) it was so great to get to hear the guest without interuptions! (2) It was great to hear what Jinger has to say! (3) and although Jeremy is very likable and thoughtful, it is was great to not have Jinger’s time and message interupted by Jeremy as a second guest.
You both are such darling women! This is a really good episode to remind women how important friendship is and how to cultivate it by letting your guard down a bit. The pride of perfectionism really gets in the way of God using others through friendship to bless us. I remember Ginger’s dad saying in an episode of 19 and Counting that I watched 20 years ago, “if you want to come over and see a clean house, good luck but if you want to come over and see us, you’re welcome.” Something like that
People pleasing isn't always selfish. In some cases, people who people please learned to do that when their parents were abusive and they used people pleasing as a defense mechanism to survive. That's not selfish. That's actually smart. Although it's not a healthy behavior, it's necessary to endure an abusive situation.
I know I am not the only one who doesn’t feel comfortable around the perfectionist, they don’t make me feel comfortable. And you do miss out on having real friendships.
Reminds me of the UPC I was part of for 12 years…such a focus on the external things… Entire conferences about what to wear and how to do your nails how to do your hair… But no focus on the inward
I'm so glad the Jeremy and Her both protect their kids from the world, they don't hide the voices just make sure people won't stalk the kids due to the fact that their stars through mom cause she knows what growing up in the light of TV due to her mom and dad.
Growing up in the “perfect” (to the outside world) house but being a complete train wreck on the inside (relationship wise) taught me that trying to carry the perfect persona does much more damage than showing the mess. I wonder how many stumbling blocks Christians unknowingly/unwillingly place in front of baby believers because we are striving to look perfect and all the while all they are thinking is I could never be like that so why even try.
An a-ha moment for me was hearing “people pleasing is deciding for others how they feel because you know better.” Ouch. I try now to allow others to make up their own mind and serve when the Lord asks me to, not when the world does.
I am so happy she didn't let this hurt her relationship with Jesus. So many that come from these kinds of backgrounds will just completely lose faith in Jesus. She found Jesus is what she did. She knows the truth.
Didn’t she say that at some point? She reminds me of Prince Harry when he left. He finally learned what it feels like to have the “freedom” to do whatever. So now want to share with everyone what they learned and how oppressed they were. I think her third book will be on how differently they are parenting their kids and the lessons she’s learned/learning.
But Yahweh said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but Yahweh looks at the heart.” - 1 Samuel 16:7
And tear your heart and not your garments.” Now return to Yahweh your God, For He is gracious and compassionate, Slow to anger, abounding in lovingkindness, And relenting concerning evil. - Joel 2:13 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to repentance. For you were made to have godly sorrow, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For godly sorrow produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world brings about death. For behold what earnestness this very thing-this godly sorrow-has brought about in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter. So although I wrote to you, it was not for the sake of the offender nor for the sake of the one offended, but that your earnestness on our behalf might be manifested to you in the sight of God. - 2 Corinthians 7:9-12
He trained her well and probably had a professional guide for both of them! After all she's making him rich! He's been promoting her since they married!
Jinger is so much more relatable than Allie, with so much more grace and kindness. I absolutely hated her book trying to convince people that empathy can be toxic.
I absolutely love Jinger sooo much for her honesty, the truth, for allowing us to better understand, not to mention she's absolutely beautiful! We ❤ you Jinger and can't wait to read the book! God bless you and your family! God is great and you're proof! 😊❤🙏🏼✌🏻
They are so much more comfortable. I just found out recently that nowadays you can find fleece lined leggings that look like pantyhose but keep you super warm.
(my comment, part DOS) Exodus is a walking with God - or a stumbling, but live & learn. I keep thinking I'm done with long-form rants, but it would truly be a missed opportunity of/for grace, almost a hypocritical omission, if I didn't drone on about THIS topic, like I have far more abstract topics that I have far less experience of. My family fell apart. It was never really together. It was hollow, expedient, rageful, selfish, narcissistic, negligent, almost commodified. I almost blame the women more than the man (but lately, begun to think more deeply about him too and HIS leadership or lack in curbing some of the worst that occurred - in fact, he helped it along!) We agreed 100%, and we fell apart. (Even as I was out-growing my early mold. In hidden ways.) I'd already been suppressed, not-cultivated, by people who were in my KINDEST estimation: severely emotionally stunted. Add in intellect & a selfish penchant for manipulation (including rage, threats, intimidation, abuse) & dismissing what one does not WANT to deal with in other members of the family: and you have most of what 'raised' me. Fact is, I ended up parenting my own inner life. The most they ever gave me, in terms of truly connecting emotionally & honestly with others? Was toddler level. Everything above that, everything beyond that, was almost like narcissistic fakery - something projected as real by the intellect but not TRULY real the moment the declarer was examined for the reality of what he/she was saying. That holds true for the older 3 members of my family (father born in 1949, mother 1951, sister 1976, me 1981). Yes indeed, Y. Y is now The Question. Not How. Not What. Y and WHO - and 'because I am your father' is not good enough. Y, what is your heart's intent, past, present, future, inner life, deep, long-range for the substance you seek? Or is it only (as in my family) borderline narcissistic expediency & commodification of the household's life & culture - for the sake of expedient self-aggrandizement at the expense of truly humbly honestly nurturing other's souls in a consistent neighborly, brotherly manner? He who wants or claims to be your consistent personal shepherd? Let him be your intimate friend first. Or he is not in cooperation with The Good Shepherd in your particular life. That is where we are. While we are rediscovering the universal principles of "the one and the many" in the kingdom of God, as intergenerational human beings - often online or in some published format. Because we (numerically in our civilization) have been duped by the paid collectivist Stages/Platforms/Lecterns, and we have NOT been those things & had that wisdom - directly with each other. Why I side with early Donatists' authority & need over Constantine and Augustine's Rome-ish proclivity. Who's the Head Of The Household? I suppose you will tell me. But first, tell me why you care about me.... This is the level I am now finally at with my own father. He is 75, I am 43. Yes, I was a late bloomer - in everything. (Even at 18.) But we didn't talk about it. He was too busy by that point, learning grace for the first time in his life, un-legalizing himself with rationalizations about how he could un-biblically divorce my mother and utterly forgetting he still had any duties to his son (Because he never really cared deeply about his son - memory confirms this, all the times of paying the bills but being physically & intellectually distant. My life was triangulated over, my choices were expropriated or ignored for some other temporary expediency - all too often. My parents NEVER discussed MY long-range life, much less cultivated me in envisioning & leading it.) By early 2000, I had practically flunked out of college, unprepared and disheartened by all he saw there, or rather, the lack of substance... My parents were in the middle of an unbelievably apocalyptically eruptive divorce (police included). I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. And my closest friend skipped town to get a normal life, afraid of the demonic situation she'd been duped into at another college (long story, but she found casual normalcy with questionable decisions, at the expense of genuine deep continuity. All this, by the time I was 19, and basically raised like the Home Alone kid, but thinking I was raised like a saint. How dare I say otherwise. It's CHURCH.
I wish she’d share more current and prospective thoughts. Know the past was tough, but we’ve heard all this before, move on. There were positives aspects of her youth too, but she seems to focus so much on the darker experiences.
The cute little family orchestra might have been canceled out by the molestation they experienced. She can speak about what she wants. If you don’t want to hear it just don’t listen.
Wearing pants or baggy sweatpants may be okay as long as they’re not tight. Even if your body type is a little more on the curvier-wider side then you should consider styling pants more modestly. There’s always a way to make it work. It’d still be best to go with a looser pair of pants instead of tight pants even if they still fit a little tight due to your body type. You can always find ways to style them in a way that will cover the areas that appear too tight. I can’t say I struggle with this issue since I am a skinny woman myself but if I had a wider body type I’d just try to pair the pants with like a modest top or a coat that would cover the tighter areas a little more. I prefer to wear dresses even in the winter. I love layering my clothes. I find it much easier and simpler to be modest when wearing dresses or skirts. I only wear pants occasionally and when I do they’re usually baggy. I do avoid wearing leggings and skinny jeans though, unless I’m in the comfort of my own home. Other than that everyone can be modest, no matter their body type. Modesty is simply not wearing anything tight, short, or cropped. There’s nothing legalistic about it unless we make it legalistic. It may be a bit challenging at times but it’s honestly quite simple. :)
@ Have you read the Bible yourself? Modesty matters inside and out. Our clothes hold so much power as Christians. It not only affects our relationship with God but our brothers and sisters in Christ as well. Christ regards injuring or causing a weak Christian to sin as a very serious offense (Romans 14:19-23; I Corinthians 8:9-13). We are all human, so offenses will happen, but our Savior pronounces woe on the person who offends and causes others to sin. Anyone who leads others into sin bears great guilt. We can commit no greater evil against another believer than causing them to sin. After all, we impede their growth into Christ's likeness and negatively affect their heavenly reward when we lead other Christians astray. Modesty, sometimes known as demureness, is a mode of dress and deportment that intends to avoid the encouraging of sexual attraction in others. Dressing modestly can provide a sense of protection and security, both physically and emotionally. By covering certain areas of the body, individuals may feel less vulnerable to unwanted attention, harassment, or objectification. Christians should seek to dress modestly and in moderation. They should avoid an ostentatious display of riches, either to show off their social standing or to call attention to their person. Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships. It inspires one's choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is an evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes. Women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do. 1 Timothy 2:9-10 Did you know uncovering the thigh is where immodesty begins? Many Bible verses describe uncovering the as immodest. Such as Nahum 3:5: "Uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers", Isaiah 47:2-3: "Uncover the leg and pass through the rivers" and "Your nakedness shall be revealed and your shame shall be seen" and Exodus 28:42: Priests were told to wear linen breeches that covered their nakedness from the loins to the thighs.” In that case, if you read the verses carefully you will understand the definition of modesty and what is not permitted. Anything tight, and short does not cover the thigh. It outlines every little detail of our bodies as well as cropped clothes reveal an intimate area of our bodies. When we choose to be modest not only are we honorable and bringing glory to God, but we’re also looking out for our brothers and sisters in Christ the way he told us to. We should always be considerate about what we do and how it could affect others. We must think about each other, not ourselves. A woman who focuses on worshipping God will consider carefully how she is dressed because her heart will dictate her wardrobe and appearance. I hope this helped! 💞🙏🏻
I think you’re missing the point. Look how you spend paragraphs trying to defend/justify yourself. That mindset is exactly what she is talking about. It’s not about pants vs. skirts.
I left here to make sure I didn’t get too…well I get it. If you were wearing a mini-skirt or a blouse cut down to your belly button then that is not modest. But pants is ok. I wear tight pants and a tunic. But your husband has a voice in that.
I never followed the Duggars (or most reality tv, for that matter), and while I noticed that they dressed modest/traditionalist, I never assumed that the children were particularly oppressed by that. Did any of you follow them, and have a sense that they were legalistic about modestly? I wonder - do children sometimes lack the maturity to grasp that parents asking them to be modest is not the same thing as "you go to hell if, as a girl, you wear pants." How much legalism is self-imposed? Raising children born in the early 90's wasn't easy, clothing-wise, because it looked as if little girls' clothing went from modest to hoochie in a short span of time, and some of us were reeling because we didn't like what was available at stores, but didn't want our children to feel like outcasts, either. Scripture says two things in particular about clothing - women are to dress modestly, and that men and women should not wear clothing of the opposite sex. I find it so interesting how Christians seek to honor these guidelines because the wearing or "dressed" (robes) and pants (garments with two legs in them) have switched back and forth over the centuries, and modesty has changed a great deal - it used to be that the mere peeking out of an ankle caused men to get all hot and bothered. And modesty was slightly clarified by the admonition to not be focused on external beauty, but rather inner beauty of character and behavior. Muslims and their variations between western wear and burkas covering every single bit of their bodies is equally difficult to figure out, and highly dependent on the country/subgroup that you are in. I'm assuming it might be somewhat the same in Christian circles. We tend to dress like others in our group unless we are fashion creatives to start with. I have a feeling that in a household as big as theirs, fashion creativity wasn't a focus - it was more about getting the laundry done, I imagine, and the easiest way to dress modestly. But I'm speculating on something I never followed. Have any of you done the deep dive on how "toxic" and "controlling" the parents were with the girls' wardrobes?
I don’t understand the clean house thing. No, it doesn’t have to be perfect, but as an autistic person, I need order. I can’t function in chaos. So yeah, my house is usually clean/tidy. I have been on the flip side of being judged for having a clean house or my children clothes matching when they were smaller. We also have several allergies which require epi pens. We can’t cut out entire food groups bc we all have so many different allergies it isn’t possible. This requires washing hands and wiping surfaces to keep people from having reactions. My daughter has anaphylaxis to dogs as well, and we have found a large portion of the population places animals over humans. Dogs are allowed so many places that we can’t go to many stores. My daughter has had severe reactions to the dander alone, so we have learned from experience. It prevents us from going to homes or them coming over to ours, because of the dander. There is a lot of talk of external things here. If our chief end is to glorify God, it can be summed up with love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Then love your neighbor as yourself. It seems there is a lot of judgment on the external within the visible church without true love and consideration of others.
I remember listening to jinger on the other episode you had her on, a lot of what she said rang true with the word of faith type teachings and related teachings I had believed before. It was encouraging to see others find biblical truth!
She's married to a supposedly strict Baptist! She is coached by him! They both have been coached to improve their public appearances! Remember she is the bread winner in their home!
I've noticed that cults and legalistic versions of the Bible/Christianity always have one thing in common: they obsess over reputation while taking verses out of context to support their bondage. Actually, it is indeed selfish (or even extra selfish a.k.a. narcissistic) prideful behavior to be so concerned with appearance----religious or not. It's nice to be concerned for others and avoid the appearance of evil, but having a mistake simply on display is not evil. Also, what about how people shouldn't be so judgmental?! It takes more energy to criticize than to show love and understanding as Christ instructed, by the way. There is a balance between accepting all evil and simply being very nice to people: Jesus (staying affectionately in the Bible+praise+prayer) is the only way to balance it all best you can (just for the sake of a happy blessed well-rounded life). So, for me, from now on (thanks for the reminder, Jinger!! God is fulfilling His purpose in you as a generational chainbreaker!!)... I'm going to try to be polite, but disconnected from rude people that want to think badly of me on purpose or accidentally (even if they're saved or not). And as for the drama that may ensue because of such disagreements over truth/reality/facts, prayer is the legit only way to get through successfully and to get out safely.
I found within the UPC Church such a focus was on just wearing a skirt… Not on the modesty… Although they said it was modest, they would wear a skin tight dress, but as long as it went past their knees, they were OK… They just didn’t get the heart of it
🤬🤬🤬🤬 Why is it ok for Jinger and not Jill!? For Jinger to not expose that and have Jill only visits posted showes she's still under Jim Bob's thumb!!! This is destroying Jill! So much damage to Jill, what a hypocrite! 🤬🤬
Now THIS, after all my prank-ish, rattle-on, long-form comments (I refuse to call them rants) THIS I should go on & on about, confessionally. I should go on for miles. But I'm all typed out. But I would miss quite the opportunity to correct some of my native hypocrisy if I didn't. Long story short, the moral I have is: as a non-legalist, I have very poignant preferences & residual understanding & sympathies with legalists. I feel like I understand, very well, the root HUMAN motivator that their religious form appeals to. I was raised in what OTHERS would call a legalistic sect even if my own experience of it sort-of "DUCKED" those things (it's easier as a guy in recent America!). But the problem was, the bigger problem was, and I'm only now GETTING REAL (caps not necessary but fully meaningful here) with myself about it all, my family was using legalism narcissistically - especially the parents. It's difficult to describe, difficult to even parse through!, how someone can think, feel, care - and yet like a room full of light-switches, it's on/off. They are very wise - then they are very unwise. They say things that are discerning - and then they live with selfish one-year-old interactiveness (not kidding) and call that normal. They work daily jobs - and then fail at life because of lack of competency or strategy or character. That describes my family - and it was, well, narcissism piled upon me since I was born. Unearned critical demands & projections that had little to do with me or reality - foisted upon me. (In a mish-mash of things. As UPCI we weren't supposed to watch TV. My dad got a TV/VCR so he would watch Star Trek TNG in 1987 and that was the first show I watched as a kid (and he was almost as religious about Star Trek fandom as he was studious about physics, Bible, Evidences, Reading about religion, Logic & Debate, Computer Programming, and everything else!) My parents, as it turns out, did not care about me. Truly. It was all superficial, amid some medium-level deep theology & situations. (And some very deep stuff, deep reality, I found my way into with a few friends!) How not to throw the baby - me - out with the crud? How not to throw everyone I know or heard of under the bus? Who is without sin? Yet I lived in a family that pretended to be near-perfect and demand perfection. When they were SO hypocritical, abusive (even violent), and falling apart, and not valuing each other - like, ever! So I grew up oblivious to the harshness accepting it with blinders (it's happening the opinions keep resurfacing, but it isn't meaningful, just march on with life and don't try to form my own opinions about it or tell anyone). Again, an odd combo of dismissal, shallowness, intellectual depth, abuse, freedom, secularism (even radical feminism in disguise!), etc. All before I was even 17 years old. I was exposed to the full gamut of culture - but not over-exposed to much and not enough to analyze it much, only enough to faintly know that the political facets & spectrums were somewhat real (even while we all pretended in the late 90's that they weren't - unless you happen to be on a college campus or in some media ring or LA, that is! We had a full on "these are not the droids you are looking for" going on everywhere! Well, then came covid & L.A. fires. Those were the druids we had been expecting. But meanwhile, we had a sort-of FALLING OUT on the legalist end of things. Like with Nazi-ism and Marxism, they are both leftists: both anti-Bible, darwinian-based, malthusian, statist collectivisms! Same can be said for LEGALISM and GRACE. Grace must be Individualistic in intent and obedient to an invisible universal principle, person, law, impartial understanding, it must practice the tension of disgreement and sorting things out - or it will fail at some illogical point of personal preference held as a standard. Legalism is easy. And at the end of the day it becomes statist. It is leftism. And the letter of the law, alone, kills. It prunes but it did not create the things of life. It is for God's Kindness and Desire that God's Severity exists.) I still feel like below-the-knee dresses are the way women should dress, and in most situations long natural-looking hair and a low-makeup aesthetic. Those were the women I was around & trusted when I was young and with whom I initially learned how to view the world with acceptance and standards. Because NOBODY lives in an actual 'anything goes' culture. Every culture, every person, has things they like to hold to, or prefer to hold to, or WILL hold to for some other purpose, everybody. So what will it be? I believe much of life is seeking equilibrium, seeking understanding (in all thy receiving get understanding!), and seeking first principles indirectly and the meaningfully-authoritative Living One from whom First Life and first principles spring. "What's it all for? Why?" Y. I was 'raised' by the 'progressive' big-church wing of the UPCI (which is still very suffocatingly conservative to almost everyone else these days). It was as normal as breathing, I was born into that culture of praise & the heaviness of a regulatory culture (big on buildings and church functions) - and the legalism. Tho the legalism (yes, skirts below the knees, long uncut hair, no pants, 0 makeup (unless like for very exceptional reasons that we didn't discuss), tho it was appreciated & expressed & valued differently by different families, including those in leadership! It was a heaviness. It didn't affect the men's lifestyle much, but in the women, it was a rigidness, self-awareness, criticalness, fear - and yes a faith, focus, a joy, an obedience of respect that may produce its own virtues even in disagreement or discord. That last part is what I respected & thought it was more than anything. Over time, and I mean over DECADES of much talk, contention, tension, even some individualist protesters at the 250-member K-12 school (among the high school kids) things began to change, tho the legalist standards officially remained the same - and I believe to this day (at the official UPCI branch - tho many, MANY, have grown to lead their own congregations and branched out! While remining in loose fellowship! QUITE. A. FEAT. Of care & respect over the decades. Not easy to pull off - and most lost out in the attempt over the decades. It was a very building-centric and legalistic and authoritarian culture, limited in range & scope so one could have a 'normal' life except in the areas it touched.) I could describe it better - but that will be left for future decades & probably biographies & history books. It was the culture in which I first learned grace. Tho, the doctrine of grace was lacking from it... I naturally agreed with the doctrine of grace when introduced to it. My entire theology went home as it were - to the actual theology of household sabbath. It was all quite natural (and was, in effect, what my father had DONE in 1990 while forming his own fellowship, before reverting back to pulpit-stage-building-congregational legalism). We literally lived across the street from one of the largest UPCI congregations in history (there are some larger - Alexandria in St Louis near UPCI HQ, etc). Part of my breaking away was learning the meanings of things. I never liked the term "Apostolic" so I stopped using it when referring to 'us'. I began using the term "Oneness Pentecostal." Well, over the decades of time & reflection - and bridging the gaps of reason between sectarian disputes - a VERY clear picture emerged. This occurred for me by late 2004, and I was definitely a Protestant tho not one excluding Catholics nor Individualists - because I remained in-principle faithful to the word-for-word historicity of the Bible and its journey through history, which I believe will be vindicated!! We see that now with Weseley Huff's recent high-profile conversations!!! Exciting times. Far more is happening online (at present) than offline. After my first 9 years of living & being introduced on a childish level to the UPCI culture, I spent these following 35 years...... slowly breaking away....... becoming a biblical individualist. VERY LONG & DETAILED STORY of very deep things most of which I was not aware of when they were occurring, but many I WAS aware of but couldn't or wouldn't dare express while I was learning on my own (or with a friend or two - or different fellowships). The only path to freedom is to form & frame one's own fellowship. Period. Period. FIND A WAY to do that without getting too much friction or resistance - regardless of your age. Learn alone if you must while you keep refining your opinions and questioning things, and at times you must - and friends come and go and disagreements either produce a more flexible fellowship or they cause impassable separation. The Y is important.
God's truth as found in his Word is not going to be appealing to unbelievers. Matter of fact it will be resisted and even attacked because behind the world system is the enemy of a person's soul. Bottom line, believers will not be able to please everyone. So, the question is who are Christians supposed to please?
Such a great episode! Love seeing and hearing Jinger! I always had a little trouble with the Mary and Martha story. I always thought why couldn’t Mary help so Martha could join in … I get it now!! Thanks! Martha was “trading down”… makes so much sense. Again great episode! ❤
It’s really interesting that some people say woman shouldn’t wear pants to be modest and others say women can be modest while wearing pants. Can I say this? God is not the author of confusion - That is Satan’s job. Satan always tries to create confusion. 😢This confusion of modesty (women wearing pants or not) is so sad and exactly what Satan wants.
What people often forget, is that in addition to modesty, the Bible teaches distinction. God created male and female and the Bible teaches that it is an abomination for a man to wear what pertains to a woman and vice versa. I was convicted about dressing for distinction when I saw a man in a skirt... I was extremely offended! The Holy Spirit convicted me. If I am alright with females wearing pants, then why was I offended with a man wearing a skirt. I now strive to dress with distinction with skirts and dresses. Our world is so confused right now and the blending of the sexes in dress and hairstyles is confusion also. Also, having higher standards is not the biblical definition of legalism. Biblical legalistic is adding works to grace for salvation.
You would have to do your own research of course, but I ahve heard that when, in Deuteronomy, it speaks about distinction, the direct translation means that it's wrong for a man to wear women's clothing, and it's wrong for a woman to wear the clothes that imply she's doing a man's job. So it could include milirary uniforms, and such things. An interesting thought!
It’s not the fact that you wear pants it’s the fact that you ware short shorts!!Why would any CHRISTIAN woman do that. Especially when you were taught to be modest. She’s just going 100 miles an hour in the opposite direction.. so sad
I’m so very grateful that Jinger is tuning out what other people think and only focused on pleasing the Lord. I stand with Jinger. As long as I please God, I have peace…🎚️🙏🙌…
God instructed us very clearly to “rightly divide” the scriptures according to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJB. You must separate (not conflate or “mix”) doctrine for Israel under the law from the church the body of Christ under grace. Romans 6:14-15 KJB says “we are not under the law, but under grace.” Paul is the apostle, pattern, and very first member of the church the body of Christ (Romans 11:13, I Timothy 1:16 KJB). You cannot mix law and grace; it’s one or the other (Romans 4:4-5, Romans 11:6 KJB). Paul wrote Romans through Philemon. These 13 books contain the sound doctrine (marching orders) for the BOC. The gospel Paul preached was given to him “by revelation of Jesus Christ” (Galatians 1:11-12 KJB) and he called it “my gospel” 3X (Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, 2 Timothy 2:8 KJB) because the 12 never preached it. They preached the “gospel of the kingdom” (Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mark 1:14, Matthew 10:5-6 KJB), which was, “Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.” It also included water baptism, confession of Christ and confession of sins, law keeping, tithing, etc. Grace believers are “forgiven all trespasses” (Colossians 2:13 KJB), “complete in Christ” (Colossians 2:10 KJB), and “circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ “ (Colossians 2:11 KJB). This means we are eternally secure in Christ, my Friends. The gospel Paul preached for salvation in this current “mystery” grace dispensation: I Corinthians 15:1-4 KJB: Christ Died for our sins; He was buried; He rose again the third day Ephesians 1:13 KJB says when you simply hear this gospel of your salvation, you are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. The Holy Spirit is the earnest (guarantee/down payment) of our salvation. Grace and Peace
IS SERIAL SERVERS EARNING SALVATION BY WORKS OR STILL PEOPLE PLEASING? THE QUESTION COMES TO MIND WHY ARE THEY DOING IT? IT GOES TO THE MOTIVE OF THE HEART AND I THINK THE AREAS WE SERVE NEEDS TO BE LED BY GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Pray for our country since all of the so-called Christians voted a self-centered blow heart to be our leader! Wasn't 4 years enough? God better stop him from doing mean. cruel things, because he is a mean, cruel person!
Hurray to women wearing pants! We are not compromising our femininity by wearing pants no more than men in the Bible were not masculine by wearing robes (as some men in the world still do).
Jinger is one of our all time favorite guests. So thankful for her being to voice to survivors of legalistic fundamentalism.
What is legalistic fundamentalism? I grew up very conservative and “separated” and have been accused of that.
@@Rosie_C. extra biblical "rules" that are attached to salvation or sanctification
Agreed. This is one of the best shows Alley Beth Stuckey has done.
@@s.a.6082and if you do these you will please God and if you don't you'll face His judgement.
@@Rosie_C - today we have so many new "definitions" that I often wonder what "accusers" mean by the words that they use.
Jinger has grown into such a wise well spoken woman. I’ve learned so much from her.
I grew up in a fundamental Baptist church my entire life. Legalism plagued the church. I cannot tell you how much I truly relate to Jingers story. Being a people pleaser mixed with legalism is a slippery toxic slope. I have left that church and it has been SO hard, but freeing in Jesus. I’m glad that those chains have been lifted and my relationship with Christ has transformed for the better since. Thank you for this episode. 🫶
Her husband and she are in that church now! She's full of herself! He's using her to make money!
I just had an epiphany while listening, I’m 64 yrs old and really don’t have any really close friends. I grew up in a home that had to be pristine at all times or it was a “mess”.
After I got married, I never would invite anyone over unless my home/kids were clean. I missed out on building relationships. 😢
never too late to change!
It's not too late Jackie! The Lord convicted me that is okay for my house to not be perfect because then I'm showing other women it's okay to not be perfect and spotless. 😊 the hardest part is just starting.
@@calliehagood Love this take!
Jinger, being brought up to live modestly, but never allowed the space to find the truth for herself and never having a true personal & spiritual experience, married a man much akin to herself. Jeremy, a good man with right intentions, but never a true spiritual experience. They are good people. Jinger needs to forget the Bill G experience & actually get into the scripture & prayer. I am not a follower of BG knowing only what Jinger has told. I do know the Bible teaches modesty. It actually does exhort us to present ourselves a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto God. Holy? Sacrifice? Bathing suits like Jinger presented herself in n the photos were neither. That’s only one occurrence. She means so well, but Jeremy at the far opposite side of the spectrum concerning modesty offered his explanation of all the scripture (out of context) why he is the one that understands scripture. We all can be susceptible to this. It is proven that if put in the needed company and we hear their explanations time after time that it will start making more sense. Then our desires as sin natured beings will start wanting to believe it…& it becomes easier. Just because a belief gains popularity and becomes accepted by many doesn’t mean that it is scripture. We can see that is true from Bible times to the days of TV evangelicals. This is the truth. I believe unarguable. Pray. Pray until you have a mind, heart, and soul changing experience. Pray until you know. You will know. Pray daily & read the scripture. It will beseech you toward a holy life in all parts of your life. Of course, we cannot do this until the spirit deals with us. That is a real experience. Without the spirit of Christ living inside us we will not have a desire to live righteously in this present time. What am I saying? Jinger is in as much deception now as she was led by Bill G. doctrine. Most every deception and manipulation will have good points, but we cannot go with good points. If we want to be saved when we are called from this world then we must worship God in spirit and truth. It must be both or it cannot work. Spirit AND truth.
Very good comment. I hope more take the time to read it.
Wow, Jinger. You blessed me so much with that story about saying yes to a friend coming over regardless how your house looked. Having that mindset in all sorts of situations, is such a hindrance in true closeness with other people. Thank you for sharing!
I praise God for His grace and mercy that Jinger would be saved and still love Christ even though she came from an environment in which so much was misconstrued about Scripture and godly living. Beautiful testimony.
I am so pleased to hear her continued faith even in the face of the legalism and abuse.
Right
Legalism? It’s Biblical standards and truths that she has shunned and campaigned against, at the expense of humiliation and disrespect towards her parents.
@@Noah4evaaPraying for you to experience God's grace and love that is based on His faithfulness, not yours.
Clearly you don't understand the definition of legalism @@Noah4evaa
@@Noah4evaa Legalism. Her parents teaching is absolutely steeped in it. How to dress. How to perform and yet no true accountability or help with Josh.
Regarding the open door ministry, I finally realized I was sinning against my sister when I deceived her into thinking my house was always perfect. I was taking part in making her think everyone else has it all together, that there was something wrong with her for being normal. I realized by not faking perfection, I was actually ministering to her. Come on in! I’m just like you!
I grew up under what I call Gothard lite, because we were able to wear pants, but still lived under so many of his teachings. Looking at the aftermath it was the perfect formula for spiritual and in some cases sexual and physical abuse. I was constantly looked down on in my teens because even though I tried to be "modest" it wasn't ever good enough. I'm so glad in my late teens God pulled our family out of that teaching but still to this day I keep noticing decades later that it had a very negative impact on me and am praying to work through those things and yes, one of my biggest hangups is caring way too much what others think.
Jinger has grown from a timid reluctant to speak to such an articulate, confident woman. After watching several of her interviews I noticed something so cool. She speaks clearly, unrehearsed and very very few "umm" "umm" "umms". It's so easy to listen to her because of that.
yes! the transformation is amazing!
@@TheMarkandheidi Yes Jeromy worked with her to get it right! He is great at promoting her to make money! They have had how many houses and what does he really make? She is still being used by a man!
I love this interview! Talk about "relatable" - thank you for normalizing real people with real problems! We are all guilty of it on some level.
I needed this episode. I have a 7 month old and I’ve been struggling to keep the house tidy. I’m not an organized person in general so it’s even harder now!
My mom was always so organized and had a perfect house and I could never be that way.
I wish she would have taught me some of her skills but she was such a perfectionist she would just brush me off because it wasn’t as good as she could do it.
I’ve struggled so much lately with being inadequate because of the messy house. I’m taking time every day to work on it and I’m getting there but still.
I really needed to hear this! ❤
Great job Jinger. Impressed with your interview!
Jinger speaks so eloquently… also, I love her nail color! 😊
It is a blessing to to listen to you and Jinger. You are wonderful young women. Keep up the good work !!
What a good talk. My views on modesty changed when I moved to a Muslim country. What I thought was the golden standard was immodest over there!! So. I came back to the states with more grace and a different perspective. It’s more about the state of my heart when I put the clothes on, and my purpose for wearing them. The rules concerning the little things change in each culture. Modesty is an issue of the heart.
This one hits differently… I definitely relate to caring too much about what people think of my parenting or my home that I don’t invite people into the chaos. Something that needs to change to build deeper relationships!
No matter how or who you’re raised by. We all have to come to these decisions in life. Absolutely love hearing Jingers way of navigating it all! ❤
It is wonderful to see how much Jinger has grown and changed from a few years ago! She is so confident and well spoken now!
What a true woman of Christ Jinger Duggard is, praise the Lord. ❤🙌
Oh wow! This was a great talk. I very much needed to hear this.
I never really followed any of the Duggar shows, but I remember the few episodes I did watch, Jinger always stood out to me from the other kids. I don’t know why. But I’m glad to see how she’s grown spiritually. ❤️
Great episode. I'm gonna invite someone over to my imperfect home right after this episode ends. The Lord has put a specific person on my mind while listening.
Thank you! This really spoke to me today. I feel like I needed to hear this at this particular time. God brought me here to hear this
Bring Jill on the podcast next time. Im curious!
Jill and Derik I feel have hate in their heart and trying to stick it to their parents…where Jeremy and Jinger are true in heart and love their family and try to have a discussion and not be so defensive… I get more from Jinger and Jeremy then I get from Jill in a religious aspect and I get more gossip and anger and oh yeah mom and dad I did this too… just to make sure you are mad at us and I’ll tweet on social media so they know that we don’t like you. I’m not following Jill anymore because I feel she is super jealous of her sisters successes
@@TawnyaDickerson You “feel” like she’s jealous? How so?????
@@dccd673 Because they tell the truth! Jeromy trained Jinger how to avoid blaming her parents! His church is not much better than Gothard's! He just found a way to finally promote her to make big money! She stepped out of one man's control into another man's control! Remember those awful cooking vlogs and the new clothes vlogs? Writing about herself is what works! She is the bread winner! How much does he make? Who's money buys their homes?
girls---Allie looks absolutely amazing in this episode. her dress is soo gorgeous! she is crushing it with style and fashion
Explains a lot of why her mother always has that "perfect" smile on her face.
A lot of the people pleaser people I know are the ones who can’t speak the truth or “talk politics” or confront sin because they can’t handle people’s reactions. They label themselves peacemakers, but more than often are just afraid to deal with confrontation or standing for something unpopular.
Yes! I’ve heard it said that there’s a difference between a peacekeeper and a peacemaker. Peacemakers aren’t afraid to do what it takes to MAKE peace. Peacekeepers are too timid to confront real issues and don’t actually create real peace. They’re just passive.
This is so real. I struggle with this and I’m taking baby steps to stop trying to protect my image and start living in the light. 🤝🏻
I wish I could've sat in on this conversation. I was raised similarly to Ginger. Learning the difference between having a conviction and being condemned or convinced to do something are totally different things.
The Bible never said a woman had to wear skirts/dresses. It only says to dress modestly. The Bible mentions the Proverbs 31 woman, but it also mentions someone like Lydia- who owned her own business and was able to fund Paul's ministry. So whenever someone tries to tell you what you should/ should not wear, do- study the Bible and deny incorperating anything that goes against the word of God.
It does, however, speak of distinctions between men and women....
Beautiful lady, inside and out, and a truly wonderful interview. I am feeling blessed.
I can relate to keeping everyone happy by people pleasing it’s truly exhausting and stressful
Thanks for sharing, what great podcast! I watched this after watching Jeremy & Jinger's podcast. I was once a people pleaser and changed all that around 2005, I am now 50 years old. Cannot read the book People Pleaser it is going to reach & help so many people.
Wow ladies. What an amazing interview ❤ enjoyed every second of it 🌹
Urgent state of emergency please join me in prayer for all those affected families children animals massive devastation in California they desperately need your prayers please pray for them God bless you all...
❤
I think God knows about the fires. She said take care of the planet.
It’s really wonderful that she’s been able to keep her faith in Christ. So many times people who grow up in similar environments lose their faith. What an amazing young woman.
I’ve been battling so much with this right now and God has really shown me how I do this. I definitely shut people out unless I feel like I have it “all together” but the main area I struggle is in my marriage.
My husband will get into this fits when he doesn’t get his way or whatever it may be and he just shuts down and will ignore me, refuse to talk about it etc, just completely avoid the situation. And I take it so personally because I just want him to be happy etc and I will let it stress me out and bring me down.
Now I’ve been working on trying to communicate but if he’s not giving his all or effort then I’m not either. Whatever he’s feeling is between him and God.
He apparently doesn't respect you! He is self-centered and needs a mother not a wife! You are right to ignore him! You are not his mother and he needs to grow up!
Such a beautiful topic. Thank you!
Thanks so much for the encouragement Jinger ❤️. I’m a very similar person. God has always been working on my people-pleasing since I first came to know him at the age of 13. He has totally changed my life in that area, but I still struggle in the area of inviting people into my disgusting and messy home. I’m the only one in my circle with more than three kids (I have 5) and I always feel like no one understands how impossible it is to keep up with the 5-kid mess. My house is horrifically messy within 3 hours of being beautifully cleaned.
I’ve known for a long time that it doesn’t matter how messy my house is or if people give me grace for my mess. I’ve known that I need to let go of that and be willing to look weak and messy in favor of what will last forever; relationships and people. This is a good encouragement for me to let go of my own will and serve the Lord with my messy house.
As a recovering people pleaser, the most valuable lessons I've learned are about healthy boundaries and learning to say NO. I would really like to hear about how you developed these disciplines in your recovery, Jinger.
Jinger is simply gorgeous!! So happy for her. Her family was very strange
Allie, you are one of my role models (even though I'm older than you 😉) for not staying silent when the truth is sure to cost you something. You have shown the way to so many of us and we love you for it💗
Excellent interview.
This was so helpful for me thank you so much bringing me peace , I'm not alone in this and teaching me today! ❤
One caveat to the whole pants issue is that not wearing pants isn't always an instance of legalism. Legalism pertains to following man made rules in order to gain God's favor or add to ones' salvation. Some women who choose not to wear pants do it out of love for God and their brothers in the Lord; to obey the biblical principles of modesty and distinct femininity. Christian women, by and large, understood those principles and didn't view obeying them as a burden until 20th century radical feminism became acceptable and eventually, the rule. Of course there are some women who solely follow the fad of whatever congregation they are a part of in not wearing pants, but some of us are more theologically grounded than that and do it in love, not legalism. 👍
Amen 🙏🏽 Any time people see someone dressed modestly it’s “legalism”. So sad. It’s funny you mentioned women pre 20th century. The world has changed sooo rapidly. The adversary at work. Yehoshua HaMashiach is coming soon. Acts 2:38 repent, be baptized in the Name Yehoshua HaMashiach and receive the Holy Ghost. Live like you love Him!! 😊
They’re specifically addressing the teaching that Jinger was raised with, which taught that women could not accomplish modesty with pants and that wearing skirts/ dresses was the only way to please God with your clothing options. To your point, Jinger also already explained in the episode that it wasn’t so much a matter of the literal clothing, but also the heart posture behind it (when she discussed the event for the young single adults). I don’t think either of these women suggested that not wearing pants is always an instance of legalism.
Exactly!
I was thinking the same thing, every Christian religion followed the teaching of gender distinction. It’s only been in the last 50 that women have cast that teaching aside in Christian churches in mass. It’s not a coincidence that it follows the feminist movement and the influence of the entertainment industry.
Well said! I wear dresses and skirts as a form of worship to God. I am honoring His design for a woman to be distinctly different from men. For centuries this practice has kept the perversion of genders at bay.
Thanks for the excellent interview (1) it was so great to get to hear the guest without interuptions! (2) It was great to hear what Jinger has to say! (3) and although Jeremy is very likable and thoughtful, it is was great to not have Jinger’s time and message interupted by Jeremy as a second guest.
Your hair looks great by the way Allie!
Momma bear instincts are real! So proud of Jinger! 😊❤🙏🏼✌🏻
Allie, that outfit slays 👏🏻
You both are such darling women! This is a really good episode to remind women how important friendship is and how to cultivate it by letting your guard down a bit. The pride of perfectionism really gets in the way of God using others through friendship to bless us.
I remember Ginger’s dad saying in an episode of 19 and Counting that I watched 20 years ago, “if you want to come over and see a clean house, good luck but if you want to come over and see us, you’re welcome.” Something like that
People pleasing isn't always selfish. In some cases, people who people please learned to do that when their parents were abusive and they used people pleasing as a defense mechanism to survive. That's not selfish. That's actually smart. Although it's not a healthy behavior, it's necessary to endure an abusive situation.
I know I am not the only one who doesn’t feel comfortable around the perfectionist, they don’t make me feel comfortable. And you do miss out on having real friendships.
A Christian counselor I knew said the phones would ring like crazy after a Gothard conference. He damaged many individuals and families.
Excellent, God-fearing interview!
Reminds me of the UPC I was part of for 12 years…such a focus on the external things… Entire conferences about what to wear and how to do your nails how to do your hair… But no focus on the inward
I grew up Pentecostal and for many years it was all about the “don’ts” no pants, no movies…
I'm so glad the Jeremy and Her both protect their kids from the world, they don't hide the voices just make sure people won't stalk the kids due to the fact that their stars through mom cause she knows what growing up in the light of TV due to her mom and dad.
Growing up in the “perfect” (to the outside world) house but being a complete train wreck on the inside (relationship wise) taught me that trying to carry the perfect persona does much more damage than showing the mess. I wonder how many stumbling blocks Christians unknowingly/unwillingly place in front of baby believers because we are striving to look perfect and all the while all they are thinking is I could never be like that so why even try.
I understand so many of these things because of how I grew up.
An a-ha moment for me was hearing “people pleasing is deciding for others how they feel because you know better.” Ouch. I try now to allow others to make up their own mind and serve when the Lord asks me to, not when the world does.
I am so happy she didn't let this hurt her relationship with Jesus. So many that come from these kinds of backgrounds will just completely lose faith in Jesus. She found Jesus is what she did. She knows the truth.
Honestly i think Jinger is or was just a perfectionist. And pushed herself constantly as a teen.
Perfectionism and people pleasing tend to go hand in hand
Didn’t she say that at some point? She reminds me of Prince Harry when he left. He finally learned what it feels like to have the “freedom” to do whatever. So now want to share with everyone what they learned and how oppressed they were. I think her third book will be on how differently they are parenting their kids and the lessons she’s learned/learning.
@dccd673 yes🙈she said it after I commented 😆
Yes she used to put on way too much mascara! She looked like a raccoon! Jill and Jana seemed to do the work and Jessa and Jinger were into themselves!
Man looks at the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.
So true
But Yahweh said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him; for God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but Yahweh looks at the heart.”
- 1 Samuel 16:7
And tear your heart and not your garments.”
Now return to Yahweh your God,
For He is gracious and compassionate,
Slow to anger, abounding in lovingkindness,
And relenting concerning evil.
- Joel 2:13
I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to repentance. For you were made to have godly sorrow, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. For godly sorrow produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world brings about death. For behold what earnestness this very thing-this godly sorrow-has brought about in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter. So although I wrote to you, it was not for the sake of the offender nor for the sake of the one offended, but that your earnestness on our behalf might be manifested to you in the sight of God.
- 2 Corinthians 7:9-12
Inside will show on the outside eventually. Both outside and inside are important. Obviously Inside is more important.
@@sarahschroeder4739 My mother always said your past comes out in your appearance when you get older so nothing gets hidden!
I think that Jeremy with his knowledge of the Bible helped Jinger move into standing for the truth.
She is a nice slow speaker and a good speaker.
He trained her well and probably had a professional guide for both of them! After all she's making him rich! He's been promoting her since they married!
Jinger is so much more relatable than Allie, with so much more grace and kindness. I absolutely hated her book trying to convince people that empathy can be toxic.
Morning Allie,
In this episode you had a lovely dress. Where did you buy it?
Blessings,
Shayna
I absolutely love Jinger sooo much for her honesty, the truth, for allowing us to better understand, not to mention she's absolutely beautiful! We ❤ you Jinger and can't wait to read the book! God bless you and your family! God is great and you're proof! 😊❤🙏🏼✌🏻
It’s so weird to hear a girl not get upset by the first question pertaining to her pregnancy 😂
I’m not finished with the episode but how do you separate people please for people vs people pleasing for god?
There is a difference between a clean or messy house
I keep hearing Allie Beth talk about this hospitality podcast with Abby but can’t find it anywhere! Anyone know how I can?
Exo 28:42 - And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their nakedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:
Yeah, pants do that.
Even some shorts cover the thighs 🤷
Women aren’t supposed to wear the clerical outfits of Levitical priests…
What color lipstick is Allie wearing in the ads??
Well, I like to wear skirts because I like them, almost always! No convictions! 😂
They are so much more comfortable. I just found out recently that nowadays you can find fleece lined leggings that look like pantyhose but keep you super warm.
(my comment, part DOS)
Exodus is a walking with God - or a stumbling, but live & learn. I keep thinking I'm done with long-form rants, but it would truly be a missed opportunity of/for grace, almost a hypocritical omission, if I didn't drone on about THIS topic, like I have far more abstract topics that I have far less experience of.
My family fell apart. It was never really together. It was hollow, expedient, rageful, selfish, narcissistic, negligent, almost commodified. I almost blame the women more than the man (but lately, begun to think more deeply about him too and HIS leadership or lack in curbing some of the worst that occurred - in fact, he helped it along!)
We agreed 100%, and we fell apart. (Even as I was out-growing my early mold. In hidden ways.) I'd already been suppressed, not-cultivated, by people who were in my KINDEST estimation: severely emotionally stunted. Add in intellect & a selfish penchant for manipulation (including rage, threats, intimidation, abuse) & dismissing what one does not WANT to deal with in other members of the family: and you have most of what 'raised' me. Fact is, I ended up parenting my own inner life. The most they ever gave me, in terms of truly connecting emotionally & honestly with others? Was toddler level. Everything above that, everything beyond that, was almost like narcissistic fakery - something projected as real by the intellect but not TRULY real the moment the declarer was examined for the reality of what he/she was saying. That holds true for the older 3 members of my family (father born in 1949, mother 1951, sister 1976, me 1981). Yes indeed, Y. Y is now The Question. Not How. Not What. Y and WHO - and 'because I am your father' is not good enough. Y, what is your heart's intent, past, present, future, inner life, deep, long-range for the substance you seek? Or is it only (as in my family) borderline narcissistic expediency & commodification of the household's life & culture - for the sake of expedient self-aggrandizement at the expense of truly humbly honestly nurturing other's souls in a consistent neighborly, brotherly manner?
He who wants or claims to be your consistent personal shepherd?
Let him be your intimate friend first.
Or he is not in cooperation with The Good Shepherd in your particular life. That is where we are. While we are rediscovering the universal principles of "the one and the many" in the kingdom of God, as intergenerational human beings - often online or in some published format. Because we (numerically in our civilization) have been duped by the paid collectivist Stages/Platforms/Lecterns, and we have NOT been those things & had that wisdom - directly with each other. Why I side with early Donatists' authority & need over Constantine and Augustine's Rome-ish proclivity. Who's the Head Of The Household? I suppose you will tell me. But first, tell me why you care about me.... This is the level I am now finally at with my own father. He is 75, I am 43. Yes, I was a late bloomer - in everything. (Even at 18.) But we didn't talk about it. He was too busy by that point, learning grace for the first time in his life, un-legalizing himself with rationalizations about how he could un-biblically divorce my mother and utterly forgetting he still had any duties to his son (Because he never really cared deeply about his son - memory confirms this, all the times of paying the bills but being physically & intellectually distant. My life was triangulated over, my choices were expropriated or ignored for some other temporary expediency - all too often. My parents NEVER discussed MY long-range life, much less cultivated me in envisioning & leading it.) By early 2000, I had practically flunked out of college, unprepared and disheartened by all he saw there, or rather, the lack of substance... My parents were in the middle of an unbelievably apocalyptically eruptive divorce (police included). I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. And my closest friend skipped town to get a normal life, afraid of the demonic situation she'd been duped into at another college (long story, but she found casual normalcy with questionable decisions, at the expense of genuine deep continuity. All this, by the time I was 19, and basically raised like the Home Alone kid, but thinking I was raised like a saint. How dare I say otherwise. It's CHURCH.
I wish she’d share more current and prospective thoughts. Know the past was tough, but we’ve heard all this before, move on. There were positives aspects of her youth too, but she seems to focus so much on the darker experiences.
The cute little family orchestra might have been canceled out by the molestation they experienced. She can speak about what she wants. If you don’t want to hear it just don’t listen.
Wearing pants or baggy sweatpants may be okay as long as they’re not tight. Even if your body type is a little more on the curvier-wider side then you should consider styling pants more modestly. There’s always a way to make it work. It’d still be best to go with a looser pair of pants instead of tight pants even if they still fit a little tight due to your body type. You can always find ways to style them in a way that will cover the areas that appear too tight. I can’t say I struggle with this issue since I am a skinny woman myself but if I had a wider body type I’d just try to pair the pants with like a modest top or a coat that would cover the tighter areas a little more. I prefer to wear dresses even in the winter. I love layering my clothes. I find it much easier and simpler to be modest when wearing dresses or skirts. I only wear pants occasionally and when I do they’re usually baggy. I do avoid wearing leggings and skinny jeans though, unless I’m in the comfort of my own home. Other than that everyone can be modest, no matter their body type. Modesty is simply not wearing anything tight, short, or cropped. There’s nothing legalistic about it unless we make it legalistic. It may be a bit challenging at times but it’s honestly quite simple. :)
Can you share Bible verses that agree with your definition of modesty?
@ Have you read the Bible yourself? Modesty matters inside and out. Our clothes hold so much power as Christians. It not only affects our relationship with God but our brothers and sisters in Christ as well. Christ regards injuring or causing a weak Christian to sin as a very serious offense (Romans 14:19-23; I Corinthians 8:9-13). We are all human, so offenses will happen, but our Savior pronounces woe on the person who offends and causes others to sin. Anyone who leads others into sin bears great guilt. We can commit no greater evil against another believer than causing them to sin. After all, we impede their growth into Christ's likeness and negatively affect their heavenly reward when we lead other Christians astray. Modesty, sometimes known as demureness, is a mode of dress and deportment that intends to avoid the encouraging of sexual attraction in others. Dressing modestly can provide a sense of protection and security, both physically and emotionally. By covering certain areas of the body, individuals may feel less vulnerable to unwanted attention, harassment, or objectification. Christians should seek to dress modestly and in moderation. They should avoid an ostentatious display of riches, either to show off their social standing or to call attention to their person. Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships. It inspires one's choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is an evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes. Women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do. 1 Timothy 2:9-10 Did you know uncovering the thigh is where immodesty begins? Many Bible verses describe uncovering the as immodest. Such as Nahum 3:5: "Uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers", Isaiah 47:2-3: "Uncover the leg and pass through the rivers" and "Your nakedness shall be revealed and your shame shall be seen" and Exodus 28:42: Priests were told to wear linen breeches that covered their nakedness from the loins to the thighs.” In that case, if you read the verses carefully you will understand the definition of modesty and what is not permitted. Anything tight, and short does not cover the thigh. It outlines every little detail of our bodies as well as cropped clothes reveal an intimate area of our bodies. When we choose to be modest not only are we honorable and bringing glory to God, but we’re also looking out for our brothers and sisters in Christ the way he told us to. We should always be considerate about what we do and how it could affect others. We must think about each other, not ourselves. A woman who focuses on worshipping God will consider
carefully how she is dressed because her heart will dictate her wardrobe and appearance. I hope this helped! 💞🙏🏻
I think you’re missing the point. Look how you spend paragraphs trying to defend/justify yourself. That mindset is exactly what she is talking about.
It’s not about pants vs. skirts.
I left here to make sure I didn’t get too…well I get it. If you were wearing a mini-skirt or a blouse cut down to your belly button then that is not modest. But pants is ok. I wear tight pants and a tunic. But your husband has a voice in that.
I never followed the Duggars (or most reality tv, for that matter), and while I noticed that they dressed modest/traditionalist, I never assumed that the children were particularly oppressed by that. Did any of you follow them, and have a sense that they were legalistic about modestly?
I wonder - do children sometimes lack the maturity to grasp that parents asking them to be modest is not the same thing as "you go to hell if, as a girl, you wear pants." How much legalism is self-imposed?
Raising children born in the early 90's wasn't easy, clothing-wise, because it looked as if little girls' clothing went from modest to hoochie in a short span of time, and some of us were reeling because we didn't like what was available at stores, but didn't want our children to feel like outcasts, either.
Scripture says two things in particular about clothing - women are to dress modestly, and that men and women should not wear clothing of the opposite sex.
I find it so interesting how Christians seek to honor these guidelines because the wearing or "dressed" (robes) and pants (garments with two legs in them) have switched back and forth over the centuries, and modesty has changed a great deal - it used to be that the mere peeking out of an ankle caused men to get all hot and bothered. And modesty was slightly clarified by the admonition to not be focused on external beauty, but rather inner beauty of character and behavior.
Muslims and their variations between western wear and burkas covering every single bit of their bodies is equally difficult to figure out, and highly dependent on the country/subgroup that you are in.
I'm assuming it might be somewhat the same in Christian circles. We tend to dress like others in our group unless we are fashion creatives to start with.
I have a feeling that in a household as big as theirs, fashion creativity wasn't a focus - it was more about getting the laundry done, I imagine, and the easiest way to dress modestly.
But I'm speculating on something I never followed. Have any of you done the deep dive on how "toxic" and "controlling" the parents were with the girls' wardrobes?
I don’t understand the clean house thing. No, it doesn’t have to be perfect, but as an autistic person, I need order. I can’t function in chaos. So yeah, my house is usually clean/tidy.
I have been on the flip side of being judged for having a clean house or my children clothes matching when they were smaller.
We also have several allergies which require epi pens. We can’t cut out entire food groups bc we all have so many different allergies it isn’t possible. This requires washing hands and wiping surfaces to keep people from having reactions.
My daughter has anaphylaxis to dogs as well, and we have found a large portion of the population places animals over humans. Dogs are allowed so many places that we can’t go to many stores. My daughter has had severe reactions to the dander alone, so we have learned from experience. It prevents us from going to homes or them coming over to ours, because of the dander.
There is a lot of talk of external things here. If our chief end is to glorify God, it can be summed up with love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Then love your neighbor as yourself. It seems there is a lot of judgment on the external within the visible church without true love and consideration of others.
I remember listening to jinger on the other episode you had her on, a lot of what she said rang true with the word of faith type teachings and related teachings I had believed before. It was encouraging to see others find biblical truth!
Ali please have Wes Huff on to chat.
I love Jinger! I so relate to her. Her heart and testimony are so precious. Can’t wait to read her new book!
Yet, I can still sense a form of legalism in her lifestyle….
So, you want her to be perfect and not being perfect? Are you sure you aren’t a perfectionist? Give her some time.
She's married to a supposedly strict Baptist! She is coached by him! They both have been coached to improve their public appearances! Remember she is the bread winner in their home!
Whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved praise the Lord praise God praying for everyone Everyday God bless you all...
I've noticed that cults and legalistic versions of the Bible/Christianity always have one thing in common: they obsess over reputation while taking verses out of context to support their bondage. Actually, it is indeed selfish (or even extra selfish a.k.a. narcissistic) prideful behavior to be so concerned with appearance----religious or not. It's nice to be concerned for others and avoid the appearance of evil, but having a mistake simply on display is not evil. Also, what about how people shouldn't be so judgmental?! It takes more energy to criticize than to show love and understanding as Christ instructed, by the way. There is a balance between accepting all evil and simply being very nice to people: Jesus (staying affectionately in the Bible+praise+prayer) is the only way to balance it all best you can (just for the sake of a happy blessed well-rounded life). So, for me, from now on (thanks for the reminder, Jinger!! God is fulfilling His purpose in you as a generational chainbreaker!!)... I'm going to try to be polite, but disconnected from rude people that want to think badly of me on purpose or accidentally (even if they're saved or not). And as for the drama that may ensue because of such disagreements over truth/reality/facts, prayer is the legit only way to get through successfully and to get out safely.
I found within the UPC Church such a focus was on just wearing a skirt… Not on the modesty… Although they said it was modest, they would wear a skin tight dress, but as long as it went past their knees, they were OK… They just didn’t get the heart of it
🤬🤬🤬🤬 Why is it ok for Jinger and not Jill!? For Jinger to not expose that and have Jill only visits posted showes she's still under Jim Bob's thumb!!! This is destroying Jill! So much damage to Jill, what a hypocrite! 🤬🤬
Now THIS, after all my prank-ish, rattle-on, long-form comments (I refuse to call them rants)
THIS I should go on & on about, confessionally. I should go on for miles. But I'm all typed out.
But I would miss quite the opportunity to correct some of my native hypocrisy if I didn't.
Long story short, the moral I have is: as a non-legalist, I have very poignant preferences & residual understanding & sympathies with legalists. I feel like I understand, very well, the root HUMAN motivator that their religious form appeals to. I was raised in what OTHERS would call a legalistic sect even if my own experience of it sort-of "DUCKED" those things (it's easier as a guy in recent America!). But the problem was, the bigger problem was, and I'm only now GETTING REAL (caps not necessary but fully meaningful here) with myself about it all, my family was using legalism narcissistically - especially the parents. It's difficult to describe, difficult to even parse through!, how someone can think, feel, care - and yet like a room full of light-switches, it's on/off. They are very wise - then they are very unwise. They say things that are discerning - and then they live with selfish one-year-old interactiveness (not kidding) and call that normal. They work daily jobs - and then fail at life because of lack of competency or strategy or character. That describes my family - and it was, well, narcissism piled upon me since I was born. Unearned critical demands & projections that had little to do with me or reality - foisted upon me. (In a mish-mash of things. As UPCI we weren't supposed to watch TV. My dad got a TV/VCR so he would watch Star Trek TNG in 1987 and that was the first show I watched as a kid (and he was almost as religious about Star Trek fandom as he was studious about physics, Bible, Evidences, Reading about religion, Logic & Debate, Computer Programming, and everything else!) My parents, as it turns out, did not care about me. Truly. It was all superficial, amid some medium-level deep theology & situations. (And some very deep stuff, deep reality, I found my way into with a few friends!) How not to throw the baby - me - out with the crud? How not to throw everyone I know or heard of under the bus? Who is without sin? Yet I lived in a family that pretended to be near-perfect and demand perfection. When they were SO hypocritical, abusive (even violent), and falling apart, and not valuing each other - like, ever!
So I grew up oblivious to the harshness accepting it with blinders (it's happening the opinions keep resurfacing, but it isn't meaningful, just march on with life and don't try to form my own opinions about it or tell anyone). Again, an odd combo of dismissal, shallowness, intellectual depth, abuse, freedom, secularism (even radical feminism in disguise!), etc. All before I was even 17 years old. I was exposed to the full gamut of culture - but not over-exposed to much and not enough to analyze it much, only enough to faintly know that the political facets & spectrums were somewhat real (even while we all pretended in the late 90's that they weren't - unless you happen to be on a college campus or in some media ring or LA, that is! We had a full on "these are not the droids you are looking for" going on everywhere! Well, then came covid & L.A. fires. Those were the druids we had been expecting. But meanwhile, we had a sort-of FALLING OUT on the legalist end of things. Like with Nazi-ism and Marxism, they are both leftists: both anti-Bible, darwinian-based, malthusian, statist collectivisms! Same can be said for LEGALISM and GRACE. Grace must be Individualistic in intent and obedient to an invisible universal principle, person, law, impartial understanding, it must practice the tension of disgreement and sorting things out - or it will fail at some illogical point of personal preference held as a standard. Legalism is easy. And at the end of the day it becomes statist. It is leftism. And the letter of the law, alone, kills. It prunes but it did not create the things of life. It is for God's Kindness and Desire that God's Severity exists.)
I still feel like below-the-knee dresses are the way women should dress, and in most situations long natural-looking hair and a low-makeup aesthetic. Those were the women I was around & trusted when I was young and with whom I initially learned how to view the world with acceptance and standards. Because NOBODY lives in an actual 'anything goes' culture. Every culture, every person, has things they like to hold to, or prefer to hold to, or WILL hold to for some other purpose, everybody. So what will it be? I believe much of life is seeking equilibrium, seeking understanding (in all thy receiving get understanding!), and seeking first principles indirectly and the meaningfully-authoritative Living One from whom First Life and first principles spring. "What's it all for? Why?" Y.
I was 'raised' by the 'progressive' big-church wing of the UPCI (which is still very suffocatingly conservative to almost everyone else these days). It was as normal as breathing, I was born into that culture of praise & the heaviness of a regulatory culture (big on buildings and church functions) - and the legalism. Tho the legalism (yes, skirts below the knees, long uncut hair, no pants, 0 makeup (unless like for very exceptional reasons that we didn't discuss), tho it was appreciated & expressed & valued differently by different families, including those in leadership!
It was a heaviness. It didn't affect the men's lifestyle much, but in the women, it was a rigidness, self-awareness, criticalness, fear - and yes a faith, focus, a joy, an obedience of respect that may produce its own virtues even in disagreement or discord. That last part is what I respected & thought it was more than anything.
Over time, and I mean over DECADES of much talk, contention, tension, even some individualist protesters at the 250-member K-12 school (among the high school kids) things began to change, tho the legalist standards officially remained the same - and I believe to this day (at the official UPCI branch - tho many, MANY, have grown to lead their own congregations and branched out! While remining in loose fellowship! QUITE. A. FEAT. Of care & respect over the decades. Not easy to pull off - and most lost out in the attempt over the decades. It was a very building-centric and legalistic and authoritarian culture, limited in range & scope so one could have a 'normal' life except in the areas it touched.)
I could describe it better - but that will be left for future decades & probably biographies & history books.
It was the culture in which I first learned grace. Tho, the doctrine of grace was lacking from it... I naturally agreed with the doctrine of grace when introduced to it. My entire theology went home as it were - to the actual theology of household sabbath. It was all quite natural (and was, in effect, what my father had DONE in 1990 while forming his own fellowship, before reverting back to pulpit-stage-building-congregational legalism). We literally lived across the street from one of the largest UPCI congregations in history (there are some larger - Alexandria in St Louis near UPCI HQ, etc).
Part of my breaking away was learning the meanings of things. I never liked the term "Apostolic" so I stopped using it when referring to 'us'. I began using the term "Oneness Pentecostal." Well, over the decades of time & reflection - and bridging the gaps of reason between sectarian disputes - a VERY clear picture emerged. This occurred for me by late 2004, and I was definitely a Protestant tho not one excluding Catholics nor Individualists - because I remained in-principle faithful to the word-for-word historicity of the Bible and its journey through history, which I believe will be vindicated!! We see that now with Weseley Huff's recent high-profile conversations!!! Exciting times. Far more is happening online (at present) than offline.
After my first 9 years of living & being introduced on a childish level to the UPCI culture, I spent these following 35 years...... slowly breaking away....... becoming a biblical individualist. VERY LONG & DETAILED STORY of very deep things most of which I was not aware of when they were occurring, but many I WAS aware of but couldn't or wouldn't dare express while I was learning on my own (or with a friend or two - or different fellowships). The only path to freedom is to form & frame one's own fellowship. Period. Period. FIND A WAY to do that without getting too much friction or resistance - regardless of your age. Learn alone if you must while you keep refining your opinions and questioning things, and at times you must - and friends come and go and disagreements either produce a more flexible fellowship or they cause impassable separation. The Y is important.
The selfishness ouchhhh
#Conviction
God's truth as found in his Word is not going to be appealing to unbelievers. Matter of fact it will be resisted and even attacked because behind the world system is the enemy of a person's soul. Bottom line, believers will not be able to please everyone. So, the question is who are Christians supposed to please?
Thinking someone is falling away from Christianity because they married a Calvinist is so crazy to me lol
Funny isn't it!
Sounds like pride, pride is actually the root of people- pleasing mentality
Not sure that is true
Such a great episode! Love seeing and hearing Jinger!
I always had a little trouble with the Mary and Martha story. I always thought why couldn’t Mary help so Martha could join in … I get it now!! Thanks! Martha was “trading down”… makes so much sense.
Again great episode! ❤
It’s really interesting that some people say woman shouldn’t wear pants to be modest and others say women can be modest while wearing pants. Can I say this? God is not the author of confusion - That is Satan’s job. Satan always tries to create confusion. 😢This confusion of modesty (women wearing pants or not) is so sad and exactly what Satan wants.
I think the only confusion comes when people state their personal convictions as a fact everybody needs to follow.
Legalism is adding works to salvation
It's more than that. It's the law vs. Relationship with Christ which leads to sanctification
What people often forget, is that in addition to modesty, the Bible teaches distinction. God created male and female and the Bible teaches that it is an abomination for a man to wear what pertains to a woman and vice versa. I was convicted about dressing for distinction when I saw a man in a skirt... I was extremely offended! The Holy Spirit convicted me. If I am alright with females wearing pants, then why was I offended with a man wearing a skirt. I now strive to dress with distinction with skirts and dresses. Our world is so confused right now and the blending of the sexes in dress and hairstyles is confusion also.
Also, having higher standards is not the biblical definition of legalism. Biblical legalistic is adding works to grace for salvation.
You would have to do your own research of course, but I ahve heard that when, in Deuteronomy, it speaks about distinction, the direct translation means that it's wrong for a man to wear women's clothing, and it's wrong for a woman to wear the clothes that imply she's doing a man's job. So it could include milirary uniforms, and such things. An interesting thought!
👏👏
It’s not the fact that you wear pants it’s the fact that you ware short shorts!!Why would any CHRISTIAN woman do that. Especially when you were taught to be modest. She’s just going 100 miles an hour in the opposite direction.. so sad
Thankfully Jinger is more concerned with what God thinks than what any of us think!
while she may wear shorts, haven't seen her wear short shorts.
I’m so very grateful that Jinger is tuning out what other people think and only focused on pleasing the Lord. I stand with Jinger. As long as I please God, I have peace…🎚️🙏🙌…
Good talk! May God be glorified through this and your book.
God instructed us very clearly to “rightly divide” the scriptures according to 2 Timothy 2:15 KJB. You must separate (not conflate or “mix”) doctrine for Israel under the law from the church the body of Christ under grace. Romans 6:14-15 KJB says “we are not under the law, but under grace.”
Paul is the apostle, pattern, and very first member of the church the body of Christ (Romans 11:13, I Timothy 1:16 KJB).
You cannot mix law and grace; it’s one or the other (Romans 4:4-5, Romans 11:6 KJB).
Paul wrote Romans through Philemon. These 13 books contain the sound doctrine (marching orders) for the BOC.
The gospel Paul preached was given to him “by revelation of Jesus Christ” (Galatians 1:11-12 KJB) and he called it “my gospel” 3X (Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, 2 Timothy 2:8 KJB) because the 12 never preached it. They preached the “gospel of the kingdom” (Matthew 4:23, 9:35, 24:14; Mark 1:14, Matthew 10:5-6 KJB), which was, “Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.” It also included water baptism, confession of Christ and confession of sins, law keeping, tithing, etc.
Grace believers are “forgiven all trespasses” (Colossians 2:13 KJB), “complete in Christ” (Colossians 2:10 KJB), and “circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ “ (Colossians 2:11 KJB). This means we are eternally secure in Christ, my Friends.
The gospel Paul preached for salvation in this current “mystery” grace dispensation:
I Corinthians 15:1-4 KJB:
Christ Died for our sins;
He was buried;
He rose again the third day
Ephesians 1:13 KJB says when you simply hear this gospel of your salvation, you are saved and sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. The Holy Spirit is the earnest (guarantee/down payment) of our salvation.
Grace and Peace
IS SERIAL SERVERS EARNING SALVATION BY WORKS OR STILL PEOPLE PLEASING? THE QUESTION COMES TO MIND WHY ARE THEY DOING IT? IT GOES TO THE MOTIVE OF THE HEART AND I THINK THE AREAS WE SERVE NEEDS TO BE LED BY GOD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Pray for our country since all of the so-called Christians voted a self-centered blow heart to be our leader! Wasn't 4 years enough? God better stop him from doing mean. cruel things, because he is a mean, cruel person!
Hurray to women wearing pants! We are not compromising our femininity by wearing pants no more than men in the Bible were not masculine by wearing robes (as some men in the world still do).