I'm a Pastor, and I Disagree with You About Abortion! | Cole - NC | Talk Heathen 04.19
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 тра 2020
- Talk Heathen 04.19 for May 10 2020 with Eric Murphy & Dragnauct Sylvas.
Call the show on Sundays 1:00pm-2:30pm CDT: 1-512-991-9242
Don't like commercials? Become a patron & get ad-free episodes & more: / talkheathentome
The podcast may be found at:
www.spreaker.com/show/talkhea...
Talk Heathen merch can be found at: bit.ly/aenmerch
► Chat room rules:
atheist-experience.org/chat-ru...
-------
WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
CONTACTS & SOCIAL MEDIA
Instagram:
Eric Murphy: Erictheheathen
Vi La Bianca: vilabianca
Twitter:
Eric Murphy: @dirtyheathen
Vi La Bianca: @AuthorConfusion
Facebook.com/talkheathen
Reddit.com/r/talkheathen
NOTES
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
Opening Theme:
Ethan Meixsell "Takeoff"
/ talkheathen is the official channel of Talk Heathen. "Talk Heathen" is a trademark of the ACA.
Copyright © 2017 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.
I love how they're SO concerned about fetuses but don't give a shit when they're born into poverty.
More meat for the fields and the factories, more grist for the mill. The conservatives push hardcore religion, anti choice, to keep people poor and dumb, saddled with litters of unwanted and uncared for spawn, who grow into flag waving conservatives. It's a holistic push, a snake eating its own dick.
Adoption
They don't really care about the unborn, they object to women having sex out of wedlock. That's why they oppose birth control pills as well.
@@jjevans1693what about it lol?
@@Kulascus I guess you think murder is funny?
I stand outside a health clinic that performs more than just abortion to preach about how abortion is bad, "But I'm not a fanatic about it."
Oh, but they might get *contraception*, and have non-procreative sex, which is against the will of this wingnut's 'god' (according to the wingnut)
He is the worst kind of person. You want to preach, that’s dandy, do it anywhere other than at the damn clinic where people are already having a bad day.
@@lestern71 Sarcasm, dude...I'd bet heavy on it
Douglas Thomas Hayden Im agreeing with Brian’s commentary on this pastor. Guy is a real piece of work.
Also asks "what can one person do about [racism]". If only he applied that to realizing that he probably won't stop any abortions.
I miss Tracie, she would have torn into this "Pastor" full flight. She has the best arguments, and the best retorts, on these subjects.
As a fellow prof, I miss Tracie too. She would have something to say about man trying to convince men at a clinic about what to do with a woman's body.
I'd say Amen, but... 😉
Was Tracie a main person on Talk Heathen as well? I only know her from TAE
@@kypdurron62 From what I've read, they had a legit reason to leave.
@@kypdurron62 On their wiki page. Not that hard to find. And you didn't give any real info.
Pastor Cole: Do fetuses go straight to Heaven?
If YES, then why do you bother???
if NO, then your idea of a God is a much bigger problem than abortion.
Nice....must remember that one
Your comment actually highlights an apologetic I've heard as a justification for why their god brought death about numerous children and unborn fetuses -- that they wouldn't reject the god in their lifetimes and therefore end up in hell. The lack of awareness for these apologists is astounding, and they think "might makes right" exempts god from keeping organisms alive, just as we humans "ought" to keep other particular organisms alive.
"If we had Jesus, no one would be having abortions" My jaw hit the floor, SHIT. That's nuts.
Jesus always pulled out, or hit the poop shoot
You wanna know what the most difficult part of my visit to Planned Parenthood was? The anti science religious assholes standing outside yelling that I’m a murderer without even knowing my reason for being there. Thank you both for advocating for people with uteruses and standing up against these harmful religious ideologies that have been victimizing people that can get pregnant since the beginning of time. I appreciate you and your efforts
Stop him from mischaracterizing abortion. He uses the terms , child , babies, and infants instead of using the term fetus or blastocyst or morula. He only rejects abortion because he rejects people having sex for any other reason than procreation.
Because he rejects *women* having sex for any other reason.
I’ve always argued that people who mischaracterize abortion are appealing to emotion. By calling a ZEF (zygote, embryo, fetus) a child/baby invokes an image of a toddler, or a newborn, for the purpose of guilting and shaming women with this imagery.
He just wants more children to rape and abuse. That's the Christian way.
Exactly - it's a way to poison the well: "I just don't want people to kill babies, that's all". Thereby insinuating that that anyone who isn't against abortion do. It's so cheap...
@Yōkai 369 your eloquence is a testament for your intelligence & more
My name is Pastor Cole... Translation: "Respect my authority!!"
Authoritay*
@@redeemedone8553 "I don't speak to women because they have emotional needs!"
Yeah, no. He doesn't speak to women because he doesn't actually see them as people. He assumes by talking to the men they will "own up", so to speak, and not allow the women to have an abortion.
This guy just called in to talk about himself 😂
Shut up, Cartman
My name is pastor Cole, respect my superstitious bullshit.
Cole hits just about every misogynistic and jesus freak stereotype I can think of. And the main problem is people like him have absolutely no clue about it. It's the, "I'm not sexist but ... " . And then they go on to prove just how sexist they are, usually in the next sentence.
This is why it's so important to get involved, because when you don't, the Coles of the world have a far more out-sized impact on our society than they should have.
The dog-whistle choir
The only thing missing is the gun hoarding, semi-automatic assault gun victimization paranoia !
I am sure he owns a gun as well.
Which misogynistic stereotypes did he hit ? I can think of one or two but don’t remember saying enough about women to hit a whole lot of those stereotypes :|
@@sanneberg1728 I'm sure he isn't legally allowed to own a gun, and I'm sure he definitely owns one.
“If everyone had Jesus the world would be better”, meanwhile 98% of the prisoner population is religious🤦♂️
98% of American prisons do NOT have Jesus. What is it you smoke in your pipe?
Dezman Jesus isn’t real. Go back to bed, you’re drunk again. 98% of the American prisoners population very much believe in the same fairytales as you.
1eftnut What do you mean by Jesus didn’t exist? Jesus was alive and was crucified. FACT
Jesus’ body has never been found. FACT
Edward Brunker you realize just randomly bawling out “FACT!!” Doesn’t actually make it a fact right? Jesus body has never been found because he never existed ffs🤦♂️.
1eftnut I don’t think you might be a little demented. Jesus walked this earth and was definitely alive. You can’t debate that. But what you can debate, is whether he was the son of God. Maybe you should have listened a bit more in school, eh?
"There has to be something wrong that that many people thought we should play with venomous snakes"
Yes, Cole, it's the bible.
Actually, its NOT crack head.
@@dezman4634 oof, ouch, ahh man you got me so good.. please someone call an ambulambulamce
Grow up.
@@CaeruleanWren sorry if I hurt your feelings Carl. Truth hurts sometimes.
@@dezman4634 I.. was being sarcastic. I was being super hyperbolic so you couldnt miss the sarcasm. The fact that you still missed it is kind of appalling, I didn't think I could overestimate a person to such a degree, yet here we are.
@@CaeruleanWren I except your apology Carl. No hard feelings.
I'm a straight man and when it came to slave owning I was done.The more I learned about the bible and the more i learned about religion made it so much more easy not care about it.
I read jack london before I read the bible. I honestly thought "why do people like this garbage?" when i read it. It is poorly written, full of holes, and repeatedly contradicts itself. To someone like me that likes accurate sci fi like Ben Bova, its nonsense. My brain looks for holes in plotlines (never watch a movie with me lol), and thats all the bible is, one big hole.
@@terryfuldsgaming7995 hahahaha Thats the best description! And then the annoying fanboys of the story make up reasons for why the plothole doesn't matter.
you were done with being straight because of slave owning?
🤔
@@Customwinder1 The Bible is man made and I will always be straight.
"I'm not sexist, I just treat people differently based on their gender, because that's all I know how to do." "I feel uncomfortable being forward with women because I want to be sensitive for them; BECAUSE they are women."
How is that not unconscious sexism?
How can people not see it?
A person who talks without listening is not worth listening to.
ENFORCER : you will be resurrected on judgement day and you better believe it.
ENFORCER : you have your opinion but it’s not a well informed one, why do you think it’s bullshit?
@@tomorrowmaynevercome3171 bud, before we can get to even the _possibility_ that your "resurrected on judgement day" claim has any potential of being true, inherent in your claim is an omnipotent god. Do you have any evidence that such a being exists? FYI, exactly ZERO atheists reading your answer will be accepting the use of the Bible to back up claims from the Bible - that is the worst kind of circular argument ("the god of the Bible is true because the Bible says so in verse blah blah blah").
Also using the "I don't care what atheists think" defence will also not be accepted, since this proves your argument to be so week you can't defend it *and that you know exactly how weak it is!* Also, you obviously care, otherwise you wouldn't be on an atheist channel commenting.
So I'm interested, what evidence do you have that convinced you and should convince us that the god of the Bible is probably real?
@@tomorrowmaynevercome3171 if there is a judgement day it will be interesting on that day. Live life like the only jury you will have are your friends but remember you are the judge and can always overrule the verdict. Then, if some might-is-right superpower enslaves you, at least you had fun beforehand.
ENFORCER : there’s a bit more than 4 billion people on the planet who share my claim about the resurrection,and don’t ask me for their phone numbers.
What makes a man a man:
Being swift as the coursing river.
Having the force of a great typhoon
All the strength of a raging fire
Being mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
Did they give me daughters when I asked...FOR SONS?!
Based on your first line, I read this in John hurts voice like from the opening from Hellboy with Ron peralmen
LOL Dragnauct- "Literally captive."
What it takes to be a man : Dont be this guy
"Happy Mothers day" he says while having the nerve to lecture about why they shouldn't have choice when they're pregnant that could potentially kill them in the same breath.
I honestly thought that this guy was a pull when I figured out he was going to start his anti-abortion rant with happy Mother’s Day.
Roman Kvapil Can you say hypocrite?
@@andrewwallwork9257 So abortion on Mothers day is okay?
Dezman
Abortion on any day is ok.
A woman could have an abortion on her dead mother’s birthday.
Mind your business.
@@AlastorsShadowDemon I'm thinking your mother didn't murder you User. That sucks.
“I can talk to men aggressively” why the hell would you want to talk to ANYONE aggressively? I feel extremely guilty when I have to be firm with someone
His problem is that he talks and doesn’t listen
I think that part of this guy's problem is that he thinks that he knows everything relevant to the issue. He doesn't think that Drag or Eric have anything impactful to say, which is weird since he's calling in to their show.
The way he jumps from topic makes it clear he didn’t call to talk, but to preach
He is a pastor. Talking without listening is kinda how he makes his living.
He talks because he's a pastor, that what they do, it stops his listeners from thinking for themselves.
aka every religious moron ever.
"...offering alternatives to not killing their child."
How many people has this caller killed by denying them the donation of his non-vital organs? Which dialysis patient died because he didn't donate one of his kidneys? How many people have died of blood loss because he hasn't donated regularly to blood drives? Same goes for a piece of his liver, bone marrow and skin.
I'm supposed to donate my body to keep an unwanted pregnancy alive but he won't do the same for a father of four or a toddler?
The smug is strong in this man. When he puts his body parts and non-vital organs on the line for another human, I'll respect what he has to say. Otherwise, his opposition to abortion is all about controlling women's sexuality and reproduction and has NOTHING to do with "saving the life of a child."
@@wordwarrior2350 Nope.
Even if I grant you pregnancy personhood, YOUR KIND still lose.
The pregnancy has NO privilege to demand to use an unwilling pregnant person's organs.
So the pregnancy is separated from the unwilling pregnant person.
If the pregnancy can't survive on its own, that's NOT the unwilling pregnant person's problem.
And Kris Aaron's comment is EXACTLY on point, because YOUR KIND are demanding that unwilling pregnant people give up the use of their organs so YOUR KIND don't get offended.
Godfrey Jemand The use of the woman’s body is the organ donation. Are we to unwillingly give our bodies for another organism to live off our organs?
@@wordwarrior2350 The caller accused women seeking to end an unwanted pregnancy of "killing the child." I say he's doing the same thing -- that's NOT switching the conversation! He was willing to accuse women of murder because they don't want their bodies used to keep another human alive without their permission.
Yet by refusing to allow HIS body to be used to keep another person alive he's doing exactly the same thing.
@@wordwarrior2350 The male "pastor" is in favor of WOMEN being forced to to allow their organs to be used by others to keep that person alive -- even if it violates their right to body autonomy (organs cannot be taken from a corpse without a signed donor form, but apparently pregnant women have fewer rights than a corpse).
My argument is that if one group can be forced by law -- at gunpoint -- to allow their organs to be used by others, then ALL people old enough to reproduce themselves must also be forced to allow their bodies and organs to be used by others.
To be clear, I'm against forcing anyone to submit to their organs and bodies being used by others, even if it means the difference between the recipient's life and death. But if MEN are also subjected to the same laws as women, then maybe those laws will be taken off the books.
@@wordwarrior2350 In the US, human organs, including bone marrow and blood, SHOULD always be voluntary. Abortion is always voluntary -- except when laws prohibit it.
"Off the books" is a figure of speech, just like the phrase "human soul".
The issue I'm arguing isn't abortion, it's women having their bodies used against their will to keep another "person" alive. I've already made that clear.
When your male body is subjected to having your blood, skin, bone marrow and non-vital organs (or parts of regenerative organs) removed to keep another person alive -- and you don't want that done -- then you'll understand why women want the right to say "yes" to abortion and "no" to forced organ removal. Women are not fetal incubators. No human should be forced to keep another human alive.
Personally, I view anyone that tries to preach at abortion clinics as harassment and they should be charged for harassment. It's none of their business, it's not honourable, it's not even a good deed. It is pure 100% harassment.
You know a guy is a fanatic, when he denies being a fanatic, before he makes his point.
It's almost like saying "I'm not racist! But yada yada yada"
@Yeah i Said it Please, don't use slashes. Use hyphens, as you and I are "agnostic-atheists."
The slash makes people think that agnostics and atheists are mutually exclusive to one another when it is literally the most common form of atheist.
Just as so, being a "gnostic-theist" (for example a Christian) is not a self-contradictory state.
@Yeah i Said it So you're an agnostic "or" atheist?
Or are you both agnostic "and" atheist?
Because if you use / it means "or"
And if you use - it means "and"
I'm calling for clarification because I don't want some annoying theist coming at us with another "gotcha" about atheism being a religion.
@Yeah i Said it Did someone piss in your cornflakes? There is no reason to be so irritable.
Or do you simply not understand what I was trying to explain to you?
I'll say it again. Agnostic and atheist is not mutually exclusive. If you do not know what "mutually exclusive" means, then tell me instead of being pissy. This has nothing to do with ego, and everything to do with trying not to feed Christian indoctrination.
"explain to them why atheism and agnosticism or both isn't a religion and leave it at that. or you can explain why Christianity, islam or catholicism is a religion. and be done with it.
"
Holy shit, if only it was that easy. Have you not deen the dozens if not hundreds of videos uploaded on here and on the Atheist experience where theists try to convince Eric and Matt that atheism is somehow a religion? Telling them "it's not" never worked, and it never will, because you need to explain it to them. AND to get to the point, preachers try to tell them that atheists cannot be agnostic and that atheists "BELIEVE that there is no god."
So when you got people going around flaunting "I'm either atheist OR agnostic" it's just feeding their indoctrination.
@Yeah i Said it Calmly? Oh, fuck off. You were being an ass by saying I was trying to feed my ego.
You're the condescending egoistic prick here.
I don't want you going around worsening the reputation of atheists. Just do the rest of us a favor and shut up about you being an atheist OR an agnostic. Asshole.
What makes a man: identifying as male and taking responsibility for your actions
What makes a woman: identifying as female and taking responsibility for your actions
What makes you (any other gender identity): identifying that way and taking responsibility for your actions
Aka it’s about being an adult instead of acting like a child
Fully agree with you on this.
SIR, HOW DARE YOU USE LOGIC!
@@Eyrie007 I know its one of my worst traits. I mean Satan agreed with me that means I must be doing something wrong ;)
@@Eyrie007 LOL
Technically what makes a man and what makes a women is their chromosomes
There is a difference between talk with a person and talking at someone
The more I hear this guy out, the more I'm glad that I my non-religious parents didn't bother me about their own religion.
As far as I'm concerned, the abortion discussion begins and ends on bodily autonomy. You really don't need to go any further than that.
His use of the terms "baby" and "child" poisons the well, by assuming that the foetus has personhood. If he genuinely believed that "babies" were being murdered, he wouldn't just be holding up a sign two days a week, he'd be there seven days a week, 12 hours a day. And he'd probably would even be doing more than that, including illegal things to stop the murder of these "babies".
Actions always do and always will speak louder than words.
Another thing that proves they are driven by ignorance is that every animal they eat has a more developed nervous system than a zygot. They kill and eat things that can actually feel the pain and fear without any qualms. But apparently life is so precious that they will kill doctors over it... So animals that can feel fear and pain, fine to kill. Doctors with fully developed brains, families, and loved ones? OK to kill. Sperm? Ok to genocide billions into their tissue paper. But as soon as one tadpole finds a spherical collection of cells, nothing should endanger it even if its the result of rape and will 100% kill the mother at birth... Oh yeah, forgot about that part, they dont care about the mothers life either... pro lifers....
@@terryfuldsgaming7995 actually, eggcell is only one cell.
@@terryfuldsgaming7995 Depends on the stage of development, over here in NSW Australia its illegal to have an abortion post 20 weeks, but really if you can't get your shit together in the 14-18 weeks to get one you probably don't want one.
It's interesting over here, at one point a minister was coping flack for delaying the deployment of abortion pills after a woman died from bloodloss and another was hospitalised after taking the pill, apparently thats conservative, I would have thought someone bleeding so heavily after taking a pill that its life threatening would just be a health issue.
Pills now available, although not over the counter at a pharmacy like the manufacturer was hoping, but then the morning after pill is available over the counter so hey.
Constant virtue signalling is hard work,.
You can actually grant full personhood to an embryo and still make the argument that abortion should be an essential service. They're unable to survive on their own outside of taking energy and resources from the person they're inside.
Tracie Harris has made the point on axp and Philosophy Tube has an excellent video on it.
"I don't want to kill babies."
So don't kill babies...
My plantation my choice. Don't like it just don't own salves right?
@@dezman4634 I have NOTHING against owning salves.
I know that wasn't the point you wanted to make, but it was too funny to resist.
@@dezman4634 More to your intended point though, it'd be much more like demanding your neighbor keep slaves for you, so that you don't have to feed them, house them, clothe them, provide medical care for them, educate them...
It ain't all about your rights, you see. Other, already born people, have rights too.
@@keepdancingmaria it kind of was.
Good thing we are talking about abortion not killing babies
"pastor" (also see 'preacher', 'priest', 'reverend', 'rabbi', 'iman', 'witchdoctor', ad nauseum): a person who has been given special privileges by a culture and/or government to extract money and influence from gullible idiots in exchange for nonexistent product(s) and do so tac-free.
Well said
Brain washer.
@Never-ending party Your buy bull gaslights about aurochs & modern cattle as being unrelated. There is no effective merit to it, none. Even an almost half decent quote here & there will still have to be modified IOT to be solidly decent.
BTW, fuck your empty deism, yes you. You & you ilk are closet atheist trolls b/c you don't dare profess theism. Feel free to correct me & demonstrate w/e gods?
@Never-ending party How many Gods exist?
@Never-ending party Your BS points to null. You have no magic, you have no invisible sky wizard worth considering. When the last cultist dies, so will the cult & all traces barring the occasional cosplayer & you fuckin' know! 😁
Quit, your preach. You are a closet atheist troll. I've been nagging you about that for some time now; I doubt I'll ever get any pushback? We dismiss your vacuous DEISM just like you blow off your fellow man.
1st assumption: animism: ya wanna personify each & every twig. You need to justify going from something to someone. You so far, refuse.
2nd assumption: playing w/ words, vague analogy to cover BS. I don't recognize a god nor a 1st law. Funny how you want to worship entropy? Indeed admiration can be far from understanding.
3rd assumption: crap you are such a hate-filled being, trash.
4th assumption: deus vult you no spell check? Deus vult you no idea check? Seems fucking so! 😂 My fool, if you find the nothing to be of intelligence, then your solipsist ass must be self-loathing to get us to rag on you so! Where is your magic? C'mon, a cantrip? Credit god w/ all the things but personal responsibility amirite! Yup. god doesn't put food on the table, not even once. Don't convince me, convince all those out there starving physically & mentally in this (supposedly xtian) sea of plenty!? Convince the civilians all around the world we bomb for private profit!? I prepare my meals, a long chain of HUMANS enable it. Your god is but an estranged relationship you have w/ your own ego. How else does god know you so well, forgive & forget your crap no matter how heinous, never seems to corroborate your behavior, everyone else following other whims from the same unchanging totally not deceptive source?
5th assumption: now you're just saying random stuff. You posit nothing intelligent, you show no love, no understanding @all of morality. Glad I'm not a xtian 😁 Let us know when you're done being a prolix coward of a gaslighter? Never have we asked what might be endearing about your god nonsense. We ask for evidence, some actual demonstration of existence? But you'll dare 'cause you know you can't!
The bible's general view on abortion :
Hosea 13:16
"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.”
Don't forget when it says that if you think your wife is unfaithful, the paster will give her an abortion to test it
@@hithere7080 (Numbers 5:11-31) :)
Don't forget the part where the believers say this is not meant to be taken literally (if they even acknowledge it), but Sodom and Gamorrah, the 10C, and numerous other things *are* to be taken literally...
Where pro life collapses: why is being an organ donor optional? We respect the bodily autonomy of corpses more then that of living women.
Very, very well said.
I am pro-life and I don't see a problem with donating my organs after I am dead. I do admit that it sounds weird but I can't really find any reasonable argument for being against it.
IsItHardToBeVegan? The thing is you make it aware that you want your wishes respected. We don’t, however, harvest organs from those that died who haven’t expressed any wishes regarding donation. We respect the body autonomy of the dead.
@@isithardtobevegan53 Cool, and other people don't want there organs harvested after death for different reasons. Likewise there are women that don't want to go through a pregnancy for different reason. The fetus/ baby cannot live outside the body. So if you say that you cannot kill the fetus/ baby then you are forcing the women to carry the child to term, and if she really doesn't want the baby, then that baby will either be resented for its entire life or given to the state. either way, the child has a statistically higher chance of abuse, which can lead to other problems.
@@thecriticalone1783 _"the child has a statistically higher chance of abuse, which can lead to other problems."_
I agree that the child's life could turn out to be totally miserable if it were to be born and live life but this does not change the fact that at some point during its development in the womb that "thing", that "fetus", that "worthless garbage" (whatever you want to call it) is a sentient being that can feel pain and even have neural brain activity while in the womb. Aborting that "thing" that can feel pain and have neural brain activity is actually murder. So, is there any point during the 9 months pregnancy in which it would be immoral to abort? or can you also abort it morally even in the 9'th month of pregnancy?
I gotta say, around the 21 minute mark, Eric unleashed an absolute belter of a question and the guy realised he'd walked straight into it. The massive diversion that follows made me chuckle! Hahaha
As a woman who’ve had an abortion I find the callers view offensive. It is not of matter of right or wrong. It is a matter of necessity. And more importantly, it was my body and my choice. Best choice I ever made.
Drag is very articulate. He’s very good at active listening.
pastor: "I would have been an advocate against slavery of black people".
Dragnauct: "that is so cool thank you"
lol
I think both hosts failed to understand his connection back to slavery. (It was loose, but there). People owned slaves and believed them to be sub-human, could be beaten and killed. We are enlightened now to see that as an atrocity. He wants a world that is "enlightened" to the fact that abortion is murdering a child, not cells/fetus/zygote (sub-human) and one day he will be seen as the Harriet Tubman of the infants. I just made the argument better than he did, but the hosts became angry, so perhaps he would have clarified himself on this point.
I protest twice a week at abortion clinics, but I’m not a fanatic. Classic.
I used to be a clinic escort. It gave me insight into the people coming to seek abortion care, it gave me insight on the anti-choice protestors that showed up every Saturday morning....mainly when we had good weather. We had our regulars, the groups of Catholics, the groups of Christians...we had a man who would preach to the people inside the clinic loudly...he was a street preacher in real life and he would bring his children with, to hold up signs, we figured they were being punished for something or other because they looked like they would have rather been anyplace than where they were.....
Every now and then a lone white man would show up and harass the people going into the clinic, these lone men were the ones than concerned us the most because they weren't with a group of protestors, just lone men that didn't have anything else better to do on a Saturday morning than harass people seeking abortion care. Cole is one of those lone men...what gives Cole the right to harass people seeking abortion care? Cole needs a life....
What a pompous individual. And of course, completely delusional.
I just got to the part where Cole was trying to insert his opinions on race relations in an overly aggressive way that makes me think he's desperately taking advantage of his one and only opportunity to ever speak directly to a POC in his entire life. 😂
Drag: "that's so cool, thank you" 😂
He says he's open-minded yet he's one of the most close-minded people I've ever heard on this show
Moving from Los Angeles to the Raleigh area has been shocking in some ways. Cole is an example of this.
The last thing a person going to a clinic is looking for is a conversation with strangers about their personal health choices; and the second last thing is a "sign."
Somebody might want to mention to this guy that on average, the per capita rate of abortions is highest in the Bible Belt. So is the rate of teen pregnancy - so apparently "having Jesus" doesn't seem to help at all.
Man, I should have been on this call. I graduated high school in 1996 in South Carolina. During the 80s and 90s there was a lot of teenage pregnancy amongst black *and* white girls, but do you want to know almost always who had their babies???? Black girls.
*White* girls were the ones quietly getting abortions or putting their babies up for adoption and pretending as if they never got pregnant and looking down on the black girls.
Black girls had their babies because of four major reasons: -deep religious belief
-cultural belief because when I was growing up, the older ppl in my life never even spoke of abortion as an option. That was unmentionable to us. Plainly put, that was some white ppl shit.
-Thirdly, black babies don't get adopted like white babies do and we all know that. They stay in the dangerous foster care system and down South, we don't do that shit if we can avoid it.
- Four, financial reasons. If all the kids in the house have a fast food job to help pay the bills, who can come up with $300 for an abortion??
Then the 2000s happened and rural black girls got wise. Why should they not avail themselves of the same options white girls and women always have???
My mother was a social worker helping pregnant teens and despite this, two of my own sisters still managed to get pregnant.
I've heard this bullshit online from white evangelicals before where they say black women are killing their babies and they claim to be so concerned. I would have had quite a field day ripping this mfckr to shreds.
How many babies has Cole offered to adopt while while feeding his masochistic ego yelling at vulnerable women? He claims not to be forceful toward women but listen to that call. He doesn't listen. Does he take the men aside (if any) that are entering these facilities or is it simply a barrage and open assault? I'm sure it's the latter. He's too filled with pride about simply being a man and what he thinks defines one. I'm sure he's one of those guys that will tell you that he has a black friend.
I am pro-choice and pro-life. In otherwords - I first believe that a woman has the right to choose what medical procedures are necessary for her health (to include mental health) and her life. I am pro-life because I hope that someday we will care as much about the baby once it is born as there seems to be people that care about a child that has NOTHING to do with them is born. Anti-Choice is no choice. Sorry dude - men telling women what to do with their bodies as more than just an interested party for what is best for her, (as in a man _that actually knows the woman in question._ ) is like someone giving out parenting advice if they have never been a parent. Kinda irritating.
The one thing that always "got me" about religion, ever since I was young, is how do they (particularly Christians, since I've had the most personal encounters with that religion, living in the US) know that their god is the right one? When there are countless religions all over the world? How do they know that Christianity is the one true religion and that Jesus, Yaweh, etc. is the one true god? There are so many religions, please, tell me how do you know Christianity is the "right" one?
"The Bible says so", or "I feel it in my heart" are *not* viable answers to *KNOW* this. I've never heard a logical explanation, only anecdotal "feely-feely" stuff. Yes, feels matter, but when it comes to actually knowing facts, feely-feely equates to moot. There simply is no answer to this question aside from "feely-feely" answers. So, if that's the case, why TF do Christians INSIST on (many times) forcefully converting people of other religions / belief systems, shouting at crowds, holding big signs, etc., when "feel-good" reasons are all they can bring to the table? Shit. I have a friend who is Muslim, another who is Buddhists and I've seen them have their beliefs ATTACKED, BERATED, INSULTED by Christians. Pisses me off. Like, if YOU'RE so damn happy being a Christian, don't you know how it feels from a Muslim's, or Buddhist's perspective? I'm not religious, but I don't judge people strictly based off of that - if they're a good person, they're a good person, that's all that matters to me. But some Christians really should just STFU and learn to respect people and stop putting THEMSELVES on a damn pedestal.
/rant.
@Never-ending party I do appreciate your effort, it seems you took the time to put this together, so thanks. However, I have to unfortunately, but respectfully, say, no, this does not answer my question as to why Jesus and no other.
It is heavily reminiscent of conversations I've had with ex-fellow church members (some of which are still close friends of mine to this day) who gave me similar responses in similar ways (looking up reasons within the Bible), which basically, paraphrase to "god is the true god because he says so". That, unfortunately, does not cut it for me I can explain why, but don't wish to stir the pot of that particular debate right now, so, I'd kindly ask that you accept that I simply do not accept the Bible as an authority. "God is the true god because the Bible says so" equates to me saying "I am a being from the 9th dimension to save humanity from evil lizard people because I say so"...it simply does not work that way.
I am not saying there isn't any good in the Bible - there are some very good lessons and morals to be learned there (as with all other of the world's religions), all I am saying is that through my journey through Christianity and through studying many of the world's religions staring in my college years, that I have come to discover similar good things in other religions as well. None of which tells me who is the one true god. Yet all of which with tid-bits of wisdom that can be found within.
I've concluded (until convinced otherwise) that for one to determine which god is the one to follow is all up to the individual. How and where they are raised, the culture they belong to, etc. Because I have yet, to this day, have heard something truly convincing as to which is the one true religion, so, if following my assertion that it's up to individual to decide who's the god to follow, I will follow my heart and not surrender myself to any one religion, but, to continue studying all the world's religions and various belief systems like atheism, agnosticism, etc. and do my best to cherry pick the good parts of each to apply to my life. Not at all easy and I'm bound to human error when doing this, but if I get some stuff right, that's good enough for me. Still...so many unanswered questions.
@Never-ending party The vast majority of gods claimed to create the earth/universe in one way or another. So that doesnt make jesus special.
Calling you a liar for not seeing whats not there is ignorance, not sure why you are happy your god is ignorant...
Zeus would regularly turn himself into a mortal and have sex with human women. Most of the greek and roman pantheon did that at some point.
Osirus, Odin, Baal, All died and were resurrected. Actually the majority of gods do that in some form.
And no Thor didnt judge you at your death, Odin did... he decided if you were worthy of valhalla...
So no that does NOT answer why jesus and no other since it was all garbage thats not unique to jesus...
@Never-ending party You should really read the epic of Gilgamesh. Most of the stories in the bible are in other older works like that. The bible was originally just a collection of stories. The original composers of the various stories didnt believe them. Its funny that so many people do now...
@@lmoral222 try not to encourage NEP. What you saw is just his usual copy-n-paste-n-spam. He doesn't give a flying f about yours or anybody else's opinion, just his opinion of himself.
@@blarglemantheskeptic also add lies to that. You can't have a decent reply from nepy, also he lies so much I really wouldn't trust him.
Why do pastors all sound so smug? It's like they're calling with a script and zero listening.
'Cause grifters every one of them.
Of course, he's PASTOR Cole, expert on all things life.
@@kathryngeeslin9509 Unless it involves humans or something else external to his delusions.
Pastor= has his very own chapter of a larger cult.
They're smug because they think they're going to spend eternity bowing at the feet of the tyrannical dictator. They don't seem to realise that might get tiresome after the first 100,000 billion years.
His position is, as they said, incredibly naive. The very notion of "If everyone had Jesus, than X would happen" is a rather infantile statement. What you're essentially saying is "If everyone agreed with me, than no one would disagree with me!" Gosh, thanks for the insightful commentary. Thing is, it's a completely useless statement that doesn't benefit anyone. You need to come up with a better way of convincing people than to just tell them "You need to think what I think! Then you'll see!"
"You need to think what I think! Then you'll see!" I'm going to steal that. I hope that you don't mind too much.
@@OsculatingPlane On the contrary, steal away!
Its also un-falsifiable. Kinda like saying "if everyone was rich, then there would be no murder." but everyone cant be rich, or it wouldnt be rich, it would be average. Or "if people had wings, they would stop having sex cuz flying would be too much fun". You know its wrong, but you cant prove it cuz you cant give everyone wings.
It reminds me of the scene in Revenge of the Sith when Palpatine says, "Once more the Sith will rule the galaxy and we shall have peace."
Exactly, because of course as we saw he was absolutely using the No True Scotsman reasoning as well.
"People just need to believe in Jesus!"
"There are people who do who disagree with you."
"Then they aren't _true_ Christians! If you look in the Bible..."
"They looked in the Bible too. That's what they're using to justify themselves, just as you are."
"Then they're interpreting scripture wrong"
"And they think _you're_ interpreting it wrong...and the other thousands of denominations of Christianity think you're _both_ readying it wrong, and that all the _other_ denominations are reading it wrong."
That's all it is, thousands of people coming up with and sticking to whatever particular interpretation of an old book that happens to make _themselves_ happiest, each of them seemingly immune to the irony of the whole ridiculous situation.
The Bible never condemns abortion. In fact, it even mandates a medicinal abortion in case when a wife is suspected to be unfaithful and got pregnant as a result. It even sets a fee for such medicinal abortion: one tenth of ephah of barley flour (1 ephah - about 22 liter, thus 1/10 would be 2.2 liter or a bit over half a gallon).
See Numbers 5
Then WHY is there a magical formula in Numbers 5 that is prescribed to administer to a suspected adulterous woman so that the fetus will be aborted if the woman is in fact pregnant?
Oh, that's when a MAN wants the pregnancy ended, you see....
/s
@Never-ending party - Oh, but there is. Verses 17 -27. Not that it would work. The part about an unfaithful wife's "thigh" rotting is merely a more polite interpretation of the passage from the earlier versions of the bible before King James' scribes put it into English.
@@theunholyhorseman7139 as much as I hate to even _slightly_ agree with numbnuts, abortion is only one possible interpretation of those verses, requiring that we assume that some of the terminology is code (i.e. "bitter water" is code for an abortifacient). This is definately done A LOT, particularly by theists trying to shoehorn modern scientific knowledge into the writings of superstitious neolithic people. Reading it more directly, it appears as a magic potion to establish guilt or innocence of an accusation of adultery by a jealous husband who has no evidence to determine guilt otherwise.
That said, NEP, you are *ALSO* wrong, for 2 reasons: the abortion reading is *definitely* a reasonable way to interpret the verses and you have provided exactly *ZERO* in the way of valid rebuttal, just the standard "all hail the great NEP, knower of everything" type pointless naysaying. FAIL!
@Never-ending party nice work there NEPy! I never said anything about miscarriage, nor did I use NIV. You didn't even bother to read what I wrote! However, since you pointed out that NIV interprets the passage to include "miscarriage", then my point *is backed up by you* that concluding the "bitter water" as an abortifacient is a reasonable interpretation.
You utter lightweight! That's an *own goal* LoL!
@Never-ending party your king nothing. You don't own these threads. You don't own anyone.
All hail the white pastor savior. Where would we be without him? 🙄🤮
Eric and Drag exhibited "God level" pun intended patience with Cole. He took several of my brain cells, and the boys helped stop the carnage! Thank you gentlemen. I was about to pop.
They let dis gai speak for himself about how he dun listen nor honestly care about anyone 😅
He implies he now knows better that he's hurting ppl..& has no intention to stop 😓
Eric, you took this conversation in a great direction :)
I really enjoy listening to Drag, he is intelligent, calm and has a good sense of humor. If I see him in a bar, I want to buy him a beer and have a discussion.
I often wonder how much time these people picket against the death penalty and gun ownership?
retired army!!A soldier- a living person charged and trained with killing living people, defending the unborn - has this guy thought about his position
Forcing people to have kids can lead to broken families.
But i bet he wouldnt be in favor of anything that would actually help people support kids. What about the living babies STRUGGLING NOW!
they would say “something something socialism communism” and then probably start chanting “USA”
Dragnauct! My man! Always so stoked to see you my guy! Don't be stranger we all appreciate you.
This caller says 200 years ago he would have been against slavery, wouldn't forcing a woman or girl who has been raped into forced childbirth be considered slavery? There are many reasons why a woman or girl may need or want an abortion and I as a man who will never understand what a female goes through have no right to say what she does given her circumstances.
Eric and Drag, I love you guys.
This call reminds me that we need prison reform for so many reasons. Our tax dollars fund prison pastors, like Cole here and privatized prisons profit from forced labor a.k.a. slavery.
Especially when the prison chaplain is teaching that homosexuality is sin and Islam is evil which I saw with my own two eyes. Now maybe he was a volunteer (I’m fuzzy on memory) but I don’t recall anyone else leading mass.
The other problem is the prison chaplain is always Christian.
Don't you just love when callers immediately poison the well by creating a loaded representation of the argument.
As a person who has had to walk past these self righteous people who stand outside of abortion clinics, I can tell you that they’re doing tremendous harm to those of us that were already struggling with having to get ourselves to an abortion clinic. It is a tormenting decision that I wouldn’t wish on anyone, only to be confronted by people like this pastor. It should be illegal, in my opinion.
"I stand in front of an abortion clinic with a sign every day.....I'm not a fanatic or anything...."
This caller will never get this, but I'll say it anyway- No woman is required to "justify" decisions she makes with her own body to any man. The caller won't get it because he comes from a culture that infantalizes women and believes they have to be "protected" (controlled) by men.
I’d agree up to the point where a mother forces the father to pay child support for a child that he didn’t want and she chose to keep.
@@AngryBoozer Nope, the guy doesn't get to tell the woman to abort or take care of a child made up of half his DNA on her own. He made the decision when he engaged in the Act. Wear protection next time.
Damn, Drag is a great co-host too! Great hosting teams on this channel!
I have a captive audience. Drag," Literally Captive" !!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Dragnauct you are a legend. Your articulation on complex issues is brilliant.
...fingers in his ears singing la la la lol
Hillarious! I protest at abortion clinics every weekend, but I’m not a like a fanatic or anything. 🤔
Yeah, that made me hiccup a bit too.
Deb Ideiosepius I blew coffee out of my nose!
@@BrianGay57 my brain flat-lined a bit. I had to pause, go back and listen to it again before I could believe what I heard.
Go Dragnauct! That impassioned speech at 18:30 was pure gold!
"let's go back 200 years. I would've opposed slavery" ☠️☠️☠️ I almost crashed my car I laughed so hard.
Cole just wants to preach. Not welcome here.
Cole should read the bible about test of the unfaithful wife and the statistics on abortions in the USA.
This guy is all over the place. I am a pastor, I am a veteran, I preach in a prison. I, I, I it ain't about you buddy.
Instead of men sitting around arguing about what women can do with their bodies, how about letting women decide what they can do with their bodies?
Ah, the age-old "baby murderer" strawman.
Let’s get down to business.
A man must be swift as a coursing river, with all the force of a great tyfoon, with all the strength of a raging fire, mysterious as the dark side of the moon.
Sure. That and pair of testicles.
@@marasmusine You must have been watching a different Disney movie.
@@michaeldeboer9940 Yeah, whichever one the Coen brothers wrote!
marasmusine You are really confused, aren’t you?
@@michaeldeboer9940 I see my reference has outstayed its welcome.
Briliant, from both of you guys
How about this: It's none of your damn business and it doesn't effect you in any way. So stay out of women's lives.
If you want to take away their freedom for this, then they can take away your freedom to own guns. Deal?
@Never-ending party Kid? I'm 42 years old. And what's this horse shit about being punished? The virus in South Korea started in a church. Do you really think it's only non-christians who die from this virus? That's assuming your god even exists, which if you could demonstrate would make you the first person to be able to in over 2000 years.
@@ufutz don't worry to much about the troll of NEP. He goes around calling atheist idiots, kids, your life is meaningless and so forth. Also he lies a lot.
@Never-ending party
Adam never existed, sin doesn't exist, there is no heaven, get an education.
@Never-ending party
@Never-ending party Look up the phrase 'die in a fire', then follow through. You profess tyranny, & vacuous deism.
Eric is still on the right here but I feel he gets too flustered when talking to these kind of callers.
The man has to support the woman and marry her. Yeah, straight from the bible verse that says a woman must marry her rapist. The bible is full of gems like that
The biggest issue this guy has is that he thinks people are making these decisions at the drop of a hat. That is not a good position to come from as it is not true and will only cause harm to the individual they are harassing. It doesn't matter if you use a nice tone if you are digging into one of the most personal situations they likely have faced. You can certainly offer counseling to those who seek you out, but you should not seek them out in front of the clinic. That is the same as asking rude and probing questions to people at a funeral. Have some respect for the decisions made and the people making them.
I think the Pastor should stick his busybody nose back it own his bible and mind his own business instead of everyone else's.
Cole: You say "if these women had Jesus, there would be no abortions?" Are you actually saying that these women who get abortions are nonbelievers? You should get an education before speaking so nonsensically. Also, please explain what it means to "have Jesus", an invisible entity, please.
I love your show
Thanks
Wow, Eric reaches his breaking point, , never seen that before
I’d be actually a nice change to see a Christian call in with a consistent and well thought out argument. Every show that I have seen appears to be nothing but batshit crazy assertions and assumptions from the Christian side of the wall.
Part of what makes this discussion so hard, and Eric did touch on this in the beginning of the conversation is that both sides have a significantly different view of what's happening during an abortion. I would even go as far as to admit, that if I shared the idea that it's a person from the moment of conception, one can only be against abortions completely. I don't agree with that, but I think we all agree that somewhere in the nine months of pregnancy the foetus turns into a human and that from that point onwards abortion can no longer be considered.
That being said, I myself am pro-choice, but I'd still call myself anti-abortionist, in the sense that I think that as a society we should strive to have as few abortions as possible. Not by taking away the choice from women, but by using methods we know reduce the number of women being forced to make this choice. The two major ones I can come up with right away would be:
- proper sexual education
- affordable birth control
I find it often so paradoxial, that those that fight against abortion the hardest, also seem oppose these methods most strongly. Which seems to indicate, however closely this edges towards making assumptions about other people's motives, that there's more at play here than just the 'I'm opposing murder' argument.
Proper sexual education should empower women, but it should also empower men. While obviously technically correct that abstaining from sex is the only way to protect oneself 100%, it's also disingeneous and not very helpful since it doesn't provide teens with any tools to be responsible once they've failed to abstain, as research shows that most do. I also have a problem with the fact that a lot of the time we feel we only need to teach boys that 'no means no', we need to teach that to both genders, but we're failing them if we don't also teach them in a meaningful way that someone rejecting a sexual activity with you at this moment in time, or someone not being comfortable to take the next step at this moment is not a rejecting of you nor of your intimacy.
In many ways I think that "You need enthusiastic consent" which I think I've heard Eric say and I'm sure others on here have said it as well is allready a much better starting point.
Secondly as sexual education teaches people how to protect themselves from pregnancy, and equally important from contracting and spreading certain diseases, we should also make those products available to them and be affordable. I personally think that both the pill and condoms should be considered part of healthcare and covered under insurance, at the same time I realise that many find this an extremist viewpoint and I'm also not completely blind to the argument that it could be considered unfair that things that are mainly used for 'happy happy funtime' shouldn't be raising the costs of medicine etc for people that are actually suffering from illnesses. But as I'm a practice what you preach kind of guy, my children know where in the house they can find condoms and they also know that I'll gladly pay for them if they want to get them from a pharmacy (provided they are comfortable at such a point of letting me and/or my wife know they're sexually active, if they're not they might need to get them for themselves). Am I not worried they might take them for friends and thus costing me a fortune? Heck no! As long as they're giving them for free and don't make money on them over my back... I'm thrilled that more people are protecting themselves.
But we're slowly getting of track, so I'll stop here.
Most women going into "abortion clinics" are going for prenatal care they can't afford anywhere else. Most women going for abortions are Christians, in the Bible Belt fundamentalist Christians. Most Christians who are adamantly opposed to abortion are also opposed to contraception and sex education, both of which prevent abortion. If he truly wants to prevent abortion he would work to provide comprehensive sex education and contraception, he would try to help alleviate the social and financial hardships that force couples to this decision (including prenatal care, possibly Medicare for all, universal basic income, childcare for working parents, domestic abuse intervention, etc.). By the way, many of these couples are married with children, and one more is one too many, a financial hardship that puts all at risk (forget college funds, think food and medicine).
cogent points! Yep, that is forgotten far too often. Drag hit the bullseye.
Love this channel
Eric and Drag love calls like this cuz in their minds they know callers like this are creating more atheists.
Dang I wicked love you guys ❤️
Usually guys like this caller profess all sorts of empathy for fetuses from conception to birth. After birth the kid and mother are on their own. After the birth no healthcare, no problem, no family assistance, no problem, poor or no education no problem. At the end of his day this guy goes home feeling he was a hero while mothers are faced with raising their children 24/7 365 days a year. Many pregnancies are forced on women while the males just get into their cars and drive off into the sunset. As a male this guy wants to wring his hands over this problem. If he is so terribly concerned, he should adopt an unwanted child and do his part. In short “Talk is Chep” he has nothing to say to me and does not deserve a forum to spout his BS.
Prison in the U.S.A. is worse than prison ought to be and it's not even the worst prison system in the world.
At the beginning, Cole said that he offered the women "alternatives". I would have liked to have heard what alternatives he offered.
As an outspoken Atheist I've always believed abortion must be legalized worldwide! Gods and various other religious delusions should never stick its immoral theology / dogma within this important issue.
Not disagreeing. Just curious if you think it should be government funded, or a private business practice. Just curious