Your determination in getting the old wire out of that conduit was next level! As a computer programmer who has done some embedded programming, the operation of the accumulator was fascinating. It's doing the work that nowadays we'd do with a tiny microcontroller, but in a completely mechanical way.
My upright Steinway Duo Art with the steamboat style pump has a similar motor to this. When I got it, it had the wrong modern motor. We did find a correct replacement but it had this two stage system like this one. Of course, it had to be rebuilt but I remember them talking about the mechanical parts switching. Not all Duo Arts used this style of motor. The coin mechanism on my Violano is a lot like this. Unfortunately when I got it someone had done some incorrect re wiring so Terry H had to redo that as well. Fascinating video. Rather than do a patch up or skip what seems to be okay, you are doing a full monty which means that this instrument should be spectacular when done.
I strongly considered that, but the cost of this project is already getting out of hand! It's a tough balance between time and money when reviving these these old things.
I have several old Emerson, Wagner and Century motors (all made in different factories in the same St. Louis neighborbhood) that are over 100 years old and they are just about bullet proof. As long as they aren't overloaded they will last forever. All you have to do is keep them lubricated. And not OVER lubricated. Nice job.
Fantastic project as always, except for the BX cable. I can't help thinking that it would have been safer to buy new BX. I remember discussion about the armor sometimes having sharp internal edges that could cut the conductor and cause a short. That's why they had all that additional insulation. Home Depot has 6ft lengths for just under $20, so it would be time efficient as well. I don't think the exterior design has changed significantly, although the internal insulation would be a modern material. Anyway, just my observation. I've been following your work and it's great. Thanks for sharing all your skills and techniques. Oh, and thanks for showing the Knipex pliers. They're pricey but worth it.
I love that table saw jig you got going there! Reminds me of my setup. I don't have any modern power tools. My tablesaw is from the 1930s and I have a General Electric hammerdrill from like the 40s or something. If I want a drill press, I have a rig I can clamp the drill into and use. Miter saw? I use the same hammer drill and a sawblade to make a homemade miter saw. I also use that drill as a handheld electric jigsaw with a special bit I made for it that clamps to the outside shell and has a bit connector for the spinning part that drives the saw. I have a similar bit to the jigsaw that is an orbital electric sander. They are janky and pretty dangerous, but they get the job done well and I have them baby proofed (me proofed). Poor drill has seen better days... Electronics aren't easy. Last time I worked with something like this, I shocked myself. Wasn't bad by any means, but it scared me enough to stay away from raw electronic components like this. You replicated that piece perfectly and the whole system looks brand new! Those old silent electric motors are satisfying. Modern motors that size are so loud and produce less torque. Great video as always! Sorry for the essay😅
Good to see you replacing the wires. On functional restorations that use mains electricity, safety MUST come before authenticity, no matter how much it hurts. I would even go so far as to suggest not to run anything more than 24V through that mechanism. On 120V or 240V it would arc like crazy, and after all you already found evidence of an electrical fire in that box. My suggestion would be to install a small PSU and run that mechanism off safe voltage, controlling a relay with it that in turn controls the motor. On how they got it in, have you considered the possibility that they might have wrapped the conduit around the wires?
@@nateoutsidethevacuum I'd be real careful about "seeing how it behaves". Know the old joke, what's the difference between a piano and a violin? Piano will burn longer. Those contacts will not only arc but also heat up due to the resistance, so you got a heat source AND an ignition source inside a giant box of wood. That's a potential recipe for disaster if I've ever seen one. At least make sure everything inside that connection box is self-extinguishing and you got a combined heat /smoke detector above the box.
Great segment! It should be mentioned that the coin counter mechanism is called an "accumulator" (*oh wait, you do name it at least twice). Also, you forgot to mention that the ratchet wheel is spun around by the action of a coil spring, like in a clock. This spring is visible in the open or side view of the components mounted outside the metal box, but not mentioned. In fact, the way the ratchet wheel is shaped, plus the pawls that push it and let it spring back, it basically functions as an escape wheel like in the escapement of a clock. I am curious: is the spring on the accumulator ratchet wheel normally WOUND DOWN when the piano plays the last tune and shuts off, or is it wound UP? I suspect the latter. That way the power to move the wheel and move the power switch is in the SPRING, not the coin, and the action of the coin on the trip lever/anchor merely RELEASES the springloaded wheel to rotate one notch and turn on the power... right?
If you were to figure the working load of the motor on startup and the lamp, multiply the resistance times ten, and put a resister across the contacts you'd likely do away with arcing. With mains power in that box i can see some lint or trash getting too hot for its own good in there. I know it would require step down of power, but would you be advantaged at all by using a doorbell transformer and a relay to make the contact that starts the motor and spoolbox lamp?
Wouldn't that resistor result in unnecessary waste of power and generate excessive heat when the machine is in standby? A relay or contactor might be a better idea
Want to see the bloopers for this episode? Check them out over on Patreon!
www.patreon.com/OutsidetheVacuum
If you want! No pressure.
Your determination in getting the old wire out of that conduit was next level!
As a computer programmer who has done some embedded programming, the operation of the accumulator was fascinating. It's doing the work that nowadays we'd do with a tiny microcontroller, but in a completely mechanical way.
Wow! You are so resourceful! Love your sense of humor, your editing and, of course, your knowledge.
That ratcheting mechanism was also used on EM pinball machines for various purposes, including counting credits.
Now that was interesting - mechanics of triggers/gears always fascinates me. Nice job as usual Nate. Your fabrication skills are amazing.
Thank you! I'm really happy with how this one turned out. As usual I make things up as I go until it all works!
So you felt screwed, didn't you? 🙂
Beautiful motor and a clever mechanism!
Good job Nate. Keep up the good work.
Hey, thank you!
My upright Steinway Duo Art with the steamboat style pump has a similar motor to this. When I got it, it had the wrong modern motor. We did find a correct replacement but it had this two stage system like this one. Of course, it had to be rebuilt but I remember them talking about the mechanical parts switching. Not all Duo Arts used this style of motor. The coin mechanism on my Violano is a lot like this. Unfortunately when I got it someone had done some incorrect re wiring so Terry H had to redo that as well. Fascinating video. Rather than do a patch up or skip what seems to be okay, you are doing a full monty which means that this instrument should be spectacular when done.
It sounds like you're a great steward of the instruments in your care!
Thank you for watching and for your kind words.
Can't wait for more!
Thank you!
i thoroughly enjoyed your antics here. lookin forward to more
There will certainly be more!
Always so much fun watching your stuff! Crazy work man
Hey, thank you! I learned a lot with this side project.
Good job! TBH, after the 3rd try I would have just bought new conduit and moved on. Your dedication to keeping this as original as possible is great.
I strongly considered that, but the cost of this project is already getting out of hand! It's a tough balance between time and money when reviving these these old things.
I have several old Emerson, Wagner and Century motors (all made in different factories in the same St. Louis neighborbhood) that are over 100 years old and they are just about bullet proof. As long as they aren't overloaded they will last forever. All you have to do is keep them lubricated. And not OVER lubricated. Nice job.
A lot of great products came out of St. Louis!
Nice work, that wiring might have been OK but I think I would have changed it too. Just in case ⚡😱 2x👍
really awesome project!
This one was definitely out of my wheelhouse! But still fun to tackle.
I often use CAD (cardboard-aided design) in my shop.
It's a must!
Fantastic project as always, except for the BX cable. I can't help thinking that it would have been safer to buy new BX. I remember discussion about the armor sometimes having sharp internal edges that could cut the conductor and cause a short. That's why they had all that additional insulation. Home Depot has 6ft lengths for just under $20, so it would be time efficient as well. I don't think the exterior design has changed significantly, although the internal insulation would be a modern material. Anyway, just my observation. I've been following your work and it's great. Thanks for sharing all your skills and techniques. Oh, and thanks for showing the Knipex pliers. They're pricey but worth it.
Thank you! I'm always learning as I go.
I love that table saw jig you got going there! Reminds me of my setup. I don't have any modern power tools. My tablesaw is from the 1930s and I have a General Electric hammerdrill from like the 40s or something. If I want a drill press, I have a rig I can clamp the drill into and use. Miter saw? I use the same hammer drill and a sawblade to make a homemade miter saw. I also use that drill as a handheld electric jigsaw with a special bit I made for it that clamps to the outside shell and has a bit connector for the spinning part that drives the saw. I have a similar bit to the jigsaw that is an orbital electric sander. They are janky and pretty dangerous, but they get the job done well and I have them baby proofed (me proofed). Poor drill has seen better days...
Electronics aren't easy. Last time I worked with something like this, I shocked myself. Wasn't bad by any means, but it scared me enough to stay away from raw electronic components like this. You replicated that piece perfectly and the whole system looks brand new! Those old silent electric motors are satisfying. Modern motors that size are so loud and produce less torque. Great video as always! Sorry for the essay😅
As long as your tools work for you (and not against you) that's all that matters!
Amazingly I didn’t get shocked once through this entire project.
Very fun video. So interesting!🎉 Early 20th century technology is faciNATEing!
Thank you for watching! This project was an enjoyable change of pace.
Great video, I just posted 2 videos of a Seeburg G we just rebuilt, for the museum.
I saw that! Congratulations!
It truly is amazing how all of it works!
It's an ingenious design. I'm glad I was able to fix it!
Good to see you replacing the wires. On functional restorations that use mains electricity, safety MUST come before authenticity, no matter how much it hurts.
I would even go so far as to suggest not to run anything more than 24V through that mechanism. On 120V or 240V it would arc like crazy, and after all you already found evidence of an electrical fire in that box. My suggestion would be to install a small PSU and run that mechanism off safe voltage, controlling a relay with it that in turn controls the motor.
On how they got it in, have you considered the possibility that they might have wrapped the conduit around the wires?
PS: You can actually SEE it arcing, and I think that's where the smoke comes from too.
I'll see how it behaves once everything is back together in the piano. Thank you!
@@nateoutsidethevacuum I'd be real careful about "seeing how it behaves". Know the old joke, what's the difference between a piano and a violin? Piano will burn longer. Those contacts will not only arc but also heat up due to the resistance, so you got a heat source AND an ignition source inside a giant box of wood. That's a potential recipe for disaster if I've ever seen one. At least make sure everything inside that connection box is self-extinguishing and you got a combined heat /smoke detector above the box.
Great segment! It should be mentioned that the coin counter mechanism is called an "accumulator" (*oh wait, you do name it at least twice).
Also, you forgot to mention that the ratchet wheel is spun around by the action of a coil spring, like in a clock. This spring is visible in the open or side view of the components mounted outside the metal box, but not mentioned.
In fact, the way the ratchet wheel is shaped, plus the pawls that push it and let it spring back, it basically functions as an escape wheel like in the escapement of a clock.
I am curious: is the spring on the accumulator ratchet wheel normally WOUND DOWN when the piano plays the last tune and shuts off, or is it wound UP? I suspect the latter. That way the power to move the wheel and move the power switch is in the SPRING, not the coin, and the action of the coin on the trip lever/anchor merely RELEASES the springloaded wheel to rotate one notch and turn on the power... right?
If you were to figure the working load of the motor on startup and the lamp, multiply the resistance times ten, and put a resister across the contacts you'd likely do away with arcing. With mains power in that box i can see some lint or trash getting too hot for its own good in there. I know it would require step down of power, but would you be advantaged at all by using a doorbell transformer and a relay to make the contact that starts the motor and spoolbox lamp?
Unfortunately such a modification is way over my head. The box does have a cast iron cover to keep it all enclosed.
Wouldn't that resistor result in unnecessary waste of power and generate excessive heat when the machine is in standby? A relay or contactor might be a better idea
I conduit...😂🤣
Gotta have the right attitude!
CAD stands for cardboard aided design?
Around here it does. To the cool kids I believe it means Computer Aided Design.