I am a former liberal Protestant, now Orthodox. From this perspective, I can say that Mailine Protestants in particular believe in ecumenism perhaps even more than the Trinity. When my Protestant friends found out that I refused to look for the lowest common denominator among the members of the "Jesus Fan Club," they were sometimes almost dismayed. One pastor wrote about me on FB: "He used to be such a big ecumenist!" As if I were rejecting some ultimate good now... I understand them, I've seen it that way too. I write this to outline the mentality of an ecumenist ideology based on the principle of love that is not guided by faith and therefore leads to the abyss.
Interesting take. I recently came into orthodoxy after a decade of being a Baha’i. That faith is really focused on ecumenism between interfaith discussions and I found it to be dishonest. It focused on similarities of faiths being good in unification, while disregarding differences as a negative “force” against unification. The problem with this type of perspective, whether applied in terms of interfaith relations or interdenominational relations, is that it is seeking to force a unity in lack of truthfulness and honesty, hence it should be considered satanic/demonic, as it is an embodiment of deception in its spiritual intent. The only interfaith discussions I’ve found somewhat fruitful is from the Traditionalist/perenialist movement, which didn’t ever seek to reduce unification of faith by ignoring differences, but rather a philosophical outlook of spiritual practices and beliefs have some common elements that ultimately aspire unification with god, however differing at the same time as their own tradition, culture and perspectives of reality
Regarding inter-faith prayers, what about more generally than just family dinners? Such as prayer during a Roman Catholic wedding or at the opening of a town council meeting of predominantly Protestant townsfolk?
Orthodox do not pray with the heterodox. Also, you should pray alone unless you're in Church. It leads to ecumenism which is the religion of the anti-Christ, by uniting of all the religions in one he will be worshiped as a god.
I really have 0 place to say because I am only an Inquirer to Orthodoxy, but I do know this question. What every priest (so 2) that I have talked to and what many very knowledgeable Orthodox people have told is that in that case, either just be respectful, or pray an Orthodox prayer to accommodate to the heterodox prayer.
The bishop you were talking about who was at a Buddhist temple was Archbishop elpidophoros the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America. And he is not liked by a lot of Greek americans. Especially for his Tendencies to be more Progressive and less conservative so a lot of conservative Orthodox don't like him. All in all I think your video is pretty good. I am not really a fan of open dialogue between Orthodox and other Christian sects because I believe it's not really useful I believe we should fix our own problems before trying to unite with other people but that's just me anyway great video
Are you sure it's Elpidophoros? I remember the photos and it definitely wasn't him. Unless there were multuple openings of Hindu temples with Greek bishops present (this was specifically a Hindu temple, maybe Elpidophoros was at the Buddhist one?)
My opinion is irrelevant but I think a good rule of thumb if youre wondering about how to interact at a protestant friends wedding or your Catholic family dinner is ask your priest and do what he says. God gave us priests and Bishops as a gift and i rely on mine heavily. As far as joint worship services ...... thats a hard no.....
From reading about the lives of various saints who did, often a few times, I think the answer is yes. However, it was usually instructed by the abbot or it was they who were moving on to found another monastery leaving a disciple as abbot of the last. I don't think it's ok to just decide oneself to go somewhere you think would suit you better without your Abbot.
Excellent and Thank you brother! 'One Faith, One Baptism' by Met. St. Philaret is a good ♾️☦️⚓ reading on this topic as well! +++ Our 'unworthy' though 'Priestly' Blessing! 👑😅🙏🤍📿
I think it's a good start, but they still believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son, much like the Eastern Catholics. They believe in other protestant beliefs. So in my humble opinion, it's a good thing, but still not good. I liked Lutherans, I found a few similarities to Orthodoxy, but again they should all become Orthodox. It's possible
Discernment is very much needed. If you're public school is teaching "alphabet ppl" nonsense. You might be safer in a heterodox school but if that school requires your kids to participate in their "worship" services it a automatic No.
Unpopular opinion: Christians will never be unified as one church because God doesn’t want it that way.. at least, not yet. It’s like the story of Babel when humanity tried to reach the heavens under the unity of one government and language and God created diversity to scatter them out. God simply likes diversity and there are some things different Christian communions/denominations can learn and appreciate from one another. Jesus, after all, chose twelve apostles who quarreled among themselves at times on who would be the greatest in heaven, who loved him the most, so it’s not surprising that we have so many branches of Christianity today. We will all be unified under Christ at the final judgement when we will no longer rely on bishops and other mortal men. Until then, we will remain separated and pray for one another
Ecclesiologically speaking, God has created one church. One Church is already united, which is the Orthodox Church. You have those inside of the Church, and those outside.
i believe the church may not be united anymore as a physical institution but will be united spiritually during persecution. theres no such thing as Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant in heaven since all the saints are one body. but if u look at Christians in the east wether Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant they faithfully follow Christ to the point of being martyrs for him and will be united in heaven.
Yeah but they take it way further than that. Both Moscow and Constantinople commune Roman Catholics and by father Seraphim roses words we become “crypto Uniates “ if we stay in communion with these people. At least in America we are having common prayers with Protestants!
Must say, you are wrong. Not all Christians to be united, but all humans to be united. Christ cares about all people, not only about those calling themselves Christians
@raudrauga you miss his point. He clearly said "all Christians ". Secondly, I did not say doing ecumenism toward other religions, but to promote Christ toward others in order to accept Him. Any ⚛️, 🕉, boudist, pagan .... could become Christian what is the goal of Christ himself. Honestly, many non-Christians are closer to Christ than many Christians. Just look those 🎪 🎪 🎪 of protestant ⛪️ or papists...
@@bezimenkostotebrigovic5149 Do you understand what you are talking about? Us orthodox do not regard protestants as Christians since they lack any sacramental life. Not even starting about catholicism cause of its complexity.
This video discusses ecumenism, which is an attempt to unify all Christians, that is why I didn't talk about 'all people'. Of course all people are to be united to Christ.
You, sir, seem to have a good view on the subject (unlike many, many world orthodox (to use st. Seraphim' term) pseudo-bishops) however I find your comments on common prayer somewhat confusing. I have addmitedly not read the entire Rudder, but I have read st. Nicodemus' comentaries on a few of the cannons pertaining to common prayer with heretics and I have not found a single instance of dispensation being given to pray with heretics or jews or heatens, neither in the home (at meals, as you have said) nor in a public space (attending a heretical consecration or coronation, as Jerusalem's patriarch recently did in England). I am not accusing you of any heresy, I mearly wish to know what source you have for your claims. Humbly asking your prayers and asking forgivness for any errors in my writting, John, a former new-calendarist
My comment was regarding Christian families, not a blanket endorsement of prayer with non-Christians or the heterodox Christians. Furthermore, canons in general are very strict, and in general are rarely directly applied (some are, when it comes to Church organization or similar, but anything else is applied very mildly). And finally, St. Nicodemus was a Anthone monk, not a bishop - it's not his job to apply the dispensations, but the bishops'.
@@BanterWithBojan Not to sound harsch, but you seem to self-contradict when you write that saint Nicodemus, being mearly a monk, cannot make suggestions on when to economize, when you yourself, being a reader and thus having no particular authority to teach, tell us to make unprecedented concessions. Again, sorry for sounding harsch, I have nothing against you personally and I really like your videos. :)
Don't worry, you're not harsh. :) Saint Nicodemus compiled the canons, he didn't give a list of how they're to be applied or not - again, that is the bishop's job. And I am not telling anyone to make concessions, I am just sharing my personal thoughts. Any "concessions" should be left to one's spiritual father. :)
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I am a former liberal Protestant, now Orthodox. From this perspective, I can say that Mailine Protestants in particular believe in ecumenism perhaps even more than the Trinity. When my Protestant friends found out that I refused to look for the lowest common denominator among the members of the "Jesus Fan Club," they were sometimes almost dismayed. One pastor wrote about me on FB: "He used to be such a big ecumenist!" As if I were rejecting some ultimate good now... I understand them, I've seen it that way too. I write this to outline the mentality of an ecumenist ideology based on the principle of love that is not guided by faith and therefore leads to the abyss.
An all around sober view on the matter. Thanks!
Interesting take. I recently came into orthodoxy after a decade of being a Baha’i. That faith is really focused on ecumenism between interfaith discussions and I found it to be dishonest. It focused on similarities of faiths being good in unification, while disregarding differences as a negative “force” against unification. The problem with this type of perspective, whether applied in terms of interfaith relations or interdenominational relations, is that it is seeking to force a unity in lack of truthfulness and honesty, hence it should be considered satanic/demonic, as it is an embodiment of deception in its spiritual intent. The only interfaith discussions I’ve found somewhat fruitful is from the Traditionalist/perenialist movement, which didn’t ever seek to reduce unification of faith by ignoring differences, but rather a philosophical outlook of spiritual practices and beliefs have some common elements that ultimately aspire unification with god, however differing at the same time as their own tradition, culture and perspectives of reality
Suddenly the Judge shall come and the deeds of each shall be revealed.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Please Come Soon!!!
I love Orthodox Bojan with Banter
The good news is the bishop who went to the Hindu temple apologized. Bad news is he was coerced by Elpidiphoros.
Thankyou Bojan this was insightful.
Regarding inter-faith prayers, what about more generally than just family dinners? Such as prayer during a Roman Catholic wedding or at the opening of a town council meeting of predominantly Protestant townsfolk?
Orthodox do not pray with the heterodox. Also, you should pray alone unless you're in Church. It leads to ecumenism which is the religion of the anti-Christ, by uniting of all the religions in one he will be worshiped as a god.
I really have 0 place to say because I am only an Inquirer to Orthodoxy, but I do know this question. What every priest (so 2) that I have talked to and what many very knowledgeable Orthodox people have told is that in that case, either just be respectful, or pray an Orthodox prayer to accommodate to the heterodox prayer.
There's a difference between witnessing people praying and participating in prayer with them.
As an ex Roman Catholic, and because of my bad experiences with RCC, I don't think I'll ever put my foot in the RC "church".
The bishop you were talking about who was at a Buddhist temple was Archbishop elpidophoros the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America. And he is not liked by a lot of Greek americans. Especially for his Tendencies to be more Progressive and less conservative so a lot of conservative Orthodox don't like him. All in all I think your video is pretty good. I am not really a fan of open dialogue between Orthodox and other Christian sects because I believe it's not really useful I believe we should fix our own problems before trying to unite with other people but that's just me anyway great video
Are you sure it's Elpidophoros? I remember the photos and it definitely wasn't him. Unless there were multuple openings of Hindu temples with Greek bishops present (this was specifically a Hindu temple, maybe Elpidophoros was at the Buddhist one?)
Beings this is being discussed, you should talk about the sacred heart and if its compatible with Orthodoxy
I think he already did henceforth!
As a Catholic: I don't know the finer points of our comparative theology. I'd rather deal with the EO than protestants any day of the week though.
My opinion is irrelevant but I think a good rule of thumb if youre wondering about how to interact at a protestant friends wedding or your Catholic family dinner is ask your priest and do what he says. God gave us priests and Bishops as a gift and i rely on mine heavily. As far as joint worship services ...... thats a hard no.....
Solid.
Out of topic question, can monk change monastery?
Yes, if they get a blessing to do so.
From reading about the lives of various saints who did, often a few times, I think the answer is yes. However, it was usually instructed by the abbot or it was they who were moving on to found another monastery leaving a disciple as abbot of the last. I don't think it's ok to just decide oneself to go somewhere you think would suit you better without your Abbot.
On the topic of ecumenism I greatly appreciated your previous video on this channel "Why I hate Antiecumenism"!
Thank you!
Interesting, thank you Bojan
Excellent and Thank you brother! 'One Faith, One Baptism' by Met. St. Philaret is a good ♾️☦️⚓ reading on this topic as well! +++ Our 'unworthy' though 'Priestly' Blessing! 👑😅🙏🤍📿
what do you think about the recent move of the lutheran churches to remove the filoque from the nicaean creed they use?
Lutherans are the best protestants❤
I think it's a good start, but they still believe that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and Son, much like the Eastern Catholics. They believe in other protestant beliefs. So in my humble opinion, it's a good thing, but still not good. I liked Lutherans, I found a few similarities to Orthodoxy, but again they should all become Orthodox. It's possible
Would you send your children to a Roman Catholic school if an Orthodox school were not available?
Definetely not. Catholicsm is a heresy and if you look into it you will some really really bad things about it.
My priest does
Discernment is very much needed. If you're public school is teaching "alphabet ppl" nonsense. You might be safer in a heterodox school but if that school requires your kids to participate in their "worship" services it a automatic No.
Hopeful for unity, but skeptical. I have my hard lines, just like anyone. Time will surely tell.
Is there a French language version of what you do?
Not as of yet :)
BTW I love your videos ty
Thank you! :)
Informed and nuanced take, and I couldn’t agree more! Thank you friend.
I knew that
Unpopular opinion: Christians will never be unified as one church because God doesn’t want it that way.. at least, not yet. It’s like the story of Babel when humanity tried to reach the heavens under the unity of one government and language and God created diversity to scatter them out. God simply likes diversity and there are some things different Christian communions/denominations can learn and appreciate from one another. Jesus, after all, chose twelve apostles who quarreled among themselves at times on who would be the greatest in heaven, who loved him the most, so it’s not surprising that we have so many branches of Christianity today. We will all be unified under Christ at the final judgement when we will no longer rely on bishops and other mortal men. Until then, we will remain separated and pray for one another
Ecclesiologically speaking, God has created one church. One Church is already united, which is the Orthodox Church. You have those inside of the Church, and those outside.
i believe the church may not be united anymore as a physical institution but will be united spiritually during persecution.
theres no such thing as Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant in heaven since all the saints are one body.
but if u look at Christians in the east wether Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant they faithfully follow Christ to the point of being martyrs for him and will be united in heaven.
Hope, you don't
No
Ecumenism for me =dialogue with people who go to churches that believes in Apostolic succession
Yeah but they take it way further than that. Both Moscow and Constantinople commune Roman Catholics and by father Seraphim roses words we become “crypto Uniates “ if we stay in communion with these people. At least in America we are having common prayers with Protestants!
Must say, you are wrong. Not all Christians to be united, but all humans to be united. Christ cares about all people, not only about those calling themselves Christians
I think you misunderstood his point, not uniting all Christians, uniting all in Christ. Doing ecumenism toward other religions is going against Christ
@raudrauga you miss his point. He clearly said "all Christians ". Secondly, I did not say doing ecumenism toward other religions, but to promote Christ toward others in order to accept Him. Any ⚛️, 🕉, boudist, pagan .... could become Christian what is the goal of Christ himself. Honestly, many non-Christians are closer to Christ than many Christians. Just look those 🎪 🎪 🎪 of protestant ⛪️ or papists...
@@bezimenkostotebrigovic5149 Do you understand what you are talking about? Us orthodox do not regard protestants as Christians since they lack any sacramental life. Not even starting about catholicism cause of its complexity.
This video discusses ecumenism, which is an attempt to unify all Christians, that is why I didn't talk about 'all people'. Of course all people are to be united to Christ.
You, sir, seem to have a good view on the subject (unlike many, many world orthodox (to use st. Seraphim' term) pseudo-bishops) however I find your comments on common prayer somewhat confusing. I have addmitedly not read the entire Rudder, but I have read st. Nicodemus' comentaries on a few of the cannons pertaining to common prayer with heretics and I have not found a single instance of dispensation being given to pray with heretics or jews or heatens, neither in the home (at meals, as you have said) nor in a public space (attending a heretical consecration or coronation, as Jerusalem's patriarch recently did in England). I am not accusing you of any heresy, I mearly wish to know what source you have for your claims.
Humbly asking your prayers and asking forgivness for any errors in my writting,
John, a former new-calendarist
Please come back to canonical orthodoxy.
My comment was regarding Christian families, not a blanket endorsement of prayer with non-Christians or the heterodox Christians. Furthermore, canons in general are very strict, and in general are rarely directly applied (some are, when it comes to Church organization or similar, but anything else is applied very mildly). And finally, St. Nicodemus was a Anthone monk, not a bishop - it's not his job to apply the dispensations, but the bishops'.
@@BanterWithBojan Not to sound harsch, but you seem to self-contradict when you write that saint Nicodemus, being mearly a monk, cannot make suggestions on when to economize, when you yourself, being a reader and thus having no particular authority to teach, tell us to make unprecedented concessions. Again, sorry for sounding harsch, I have nothing against you personally and I really like your videos. :)
Don't worry, you're not harsh. :) Saint Nicodemus compiled the canons, he didn't give a list of how they're to be applied or not - again, that is the bishop's job. And I am not telling anyone to make concessions, I am just sharing my personal thoughts. Any "concessions" should be left to one's spiritual father. :)