yes indeed!. I began my musical journey at 72, and just as you said, I gripped the neck too hard, causing CARPALtunnel. consequently, surgery was needed.I now take it slow, with focus, and am improving.
Thanks dude, I’ve been playing 13 years and have always struggled with managing wrist pain. I’ve watched countless UA-cam videos and they all vaguely said similar things. But your explanation of how the tendons work and what causes that extra strain on them is what I needed. I also needed the reassurance that it’s okay to feel like taking a couple steps back. I never wanted to change my play style because I felt I was really getting good and didn’t want to lose that. But after 13 years of cramped wrists it’s time to change my wrist angle lol. Thanks again man.
Howdy Kevin, thanks so much for making the time to do these videos to address the issues of proper guitar posture, I’m a 63 yr old beginner on a custom Jon Kammerer acoustic electric Pegasus guitar, he put .009 strings on it to aid in the learning process, but as a newbie, your detailed concise info on posture is priceless, besides the normal early fret finger pains, my left forearm was killing me, posture was all wrong, when I followed your advice and angled the guitar head stock further upward (like a flamenco guitarist), that made such an improvement, not only less forearm pain, but I was able to begin better finger placement on the fretboard. Interesting side note, I tried to teach myself acoustic guitar many years ago using a large bodied nylon string thrift store used guitar, it was so frustrating, the action was so bad, it didn’t fit comfortably against my side, plus being young and impatient….the internet hadn’t been invented yet ( yikes, I am old) the old saying “youth breeds impatience”, we’ll, I’m not so young anymore, I’m trying to be more patient by using wisdom and with your videos, do this thing we all guitarists are trying to accomplish, eeek out some tunes and enjoy the journey of learning! Thanks again, especially your replies to many of the commenters have been very helpful and encouraging. Keep rock in!
Wow! Good for you for picking up the guitar again. Thank you for the kind words. I’m glad you found this so helpful. You keep rockin’ as well! Best of luck to you.
Man I watched 2 of your videos and I thought like “why does this guy has so little subs?” You’re doing great stuff! Keep it up! You just helped me a lot with those posture tips! Thanks man!
TOTALLY underrated channel!!!! This is just so damn helpful, especially how you work through the physical/anatomic background! First time on youtube, I found such explanation and detailed step-by-step instruction. Thank you! I play only a year now and second time: tendonitis. It didn't even hurt, while playing, so no warning signs (which is really mean). But afterwards --> damaged wrist again! Been to the doctor: wrist joint all filled with liquid, not healthy at all. Totally disencouraged I started thinking, can I even learn the guitar with this (and my kid-size hands)? But here, and also seeing all the comments of those who successfully tried it out (thx guys/ladies): I for sure will follow this instruction and take special time just focussing on that. And then headn towards improving and enjoying my supercool hobby instead next pain episode.
This js really great. I've known guitar for 10 years now and stopped playing in college. Now I'm starting again and realized how wrong my hand positions were. I'm now trying to regain my guitar skills while correcting these bad habits. Your lesson is very informative. Rock on 🤘
Thank you Kevin for this (and other corrective posture videos). I've only been playing for 4 months, but have previous wrist and finger injuries from sports. That along with wrong positioning of my wrist while learning & practicing my first barre and power chords has been painful. Having small hands & short fingers I was also struggling with reaching certain notes. After applying what you taught us in this video, I had my first 1 hour pain free practice session tonight, and my barre chords were much easier to fret and strum correctly! The point you highlighted about the fingers needing to be parallel to the forearm and not the fretboard was a huge light bulb moment for me that helped me correct many wrong chord and scale hand positions. My wrist and forearms are much more relaxed while practicing now. Will be mindful of these corrective postural changes (also loved your back posture video) while practicing from now on to avoid future bad habits and recurring pain. Thank you so much!
Very interesting.. I began revamping my technique about 6 months ago to remove bad habits and my playing took a temporary nosedive.. however, now my playing is way smoother than I had imagined in such a short period. This is some very important information to have from the beginning. If only I had this 30 years ago! I wouldn’t have taken 20+ years off
I have developed so many bad habits within this short year & 1/2 or so. I'm trying to do that same thing myself. It's so hard "unlearning" what has became the norm. I'm glad that u was able to fix ur issues:)))
Hey thanks a lot! I've been looking on youtube for months trying to find a precise explanation of proper guitar fretting hand technique. I will certainly check out more of your guitar videos!
Glad you found it helpful. Be sure to subscribe if you haven't done so already so you can get notified when I add more. I should be adding some next month.
I love this video and found it very helpful. One thing you might add is that different people have different degrees of natural pronation. Analogous to how people hold golf clubs differently, some people, when they let their arms dangle loosely in front of them show more of their knuckles when they look at a mirror in front of them (pronators). Others show their thumb more or even their palm when they look in a mirror (supinators). The more you naturally pronate, the higher the neck of the guitar needs to be to feel comfortable.
That is good to know. I’ll have to look into that more. Thanks for mentioning that. By any chance are you a physical therapist, or something related? I mention throughout my videos that I am not so it’s always helpful to get feedback from people who really know this subject, and not just how it pertains to guitar.
Thank u so very very much for doing these Kevin. You have made alot of ppl happy with these becuz this is something that is vital in making one a good player & not many ppl do them. THAT IS WHY I AM 2 YEARS INTO PLAYING & STILL HAVE PROBLEMS. I WAS NEVER TAUGHT THIS & IT HAS CAUSED ME WAY TOO MUCH PAIN. But I am super appreciative & I have watched every single one. Multiple times.
This is a great lesson. I realized that my wrist position was wrong, and I felt a lot of pain till nowadays... Now I'm on physiotherapy Lubricant and all that 😢 But the real struggle started when I switched to 7 strings guitar... I also think that if you play on 7,8 strings guitar this technique not works... My problem is when I play on first fret and above, but in middle of the nech or after 12 fret it's fine
It's true, the wider necks do require a bit of adaptation. I never took the time to develop the feel for a 7 or 8 string guitar. Those lower frets may require a slight bend in the wrist or straighter fingers. I wonder if that's why I see so many 7-string Metal riffs focus on using the open strings while fretting notes mainly in the middle of the neck. That's just my observation; I haven't followed the genre in a while.
Great video, Kevin! This is my #1 issue - keeping my wrist straight so that I don't feel strain. I also liked the advice re: the amount of pressure to put on a string. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, wisdom and tips in an encouraging and motivating way. I look forward to each of your videos!
@Kevin O'Shaughnessy YW 😁 need to see if u do a painful finger joint vid, hoping its Tendonitis and not Arthritis, playing again after many years, appreciate your focused videos 👍
@@mikealman9259 That's a little out of my area of expertise. If I were to be experiencing joint pain, and simple shifts in orientation or reducing the amount of pressure I was appying to the strings didn't solve the problem over time, I would see a doctor. Hopefully, it's nothing serious.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Thanks for the reply, after laying off the acoustic since buying an electric guitar, I've noticed an improvement with it needing much lighter pressure so I'm relieved to say it's more than likely tendonitis, that and your excellent videos have emphasised the importance of correct posture, wrist angle etc, as I'm about to hit 60 😱 u just can't get away with things u could when younger lol. 👍
I'm kind of obsessive about correct position since I easily will suffer a strain, which sometimes puts my practice basically on hold. I will gladly step "backward" to slow everything down to acquire the skills to play for the rest of my life, comfortably and safely. I really appreciated the thoroughness of the video, especially the encouragement to accept the reality that re-learning fretting hand technique can be long and cumbersome, but the effort is completely worth the freedom to play. I almost wept finding that fleeting feeling I have felt before, but couldn't quite find a way to position it like "home base" kind of idea. Your description about how to get into position gives me hope that I can now improve my technique to hopefully prevent a relapse of pain from strain. Thank you!
Great vid, thanks for sharing! Trying to keep my wrist straight while playing now, but it's especially difficult for me when stretching the fingers over several frets up and down the neck. Maybe I just need to work on it. Also is it more important to keep your wrist straight or to keep the thumb completely on the back of the neck? Because I'm having some trouble doing both at the same time. Thanks again :)
Hey Lise. Thanks for the questions. First thing to keep in mind is that this will probably take a while to get used to. I didn't keep great track of it when I was having problems, but I'd say it took about 9 months for me to get this down, if I were to guess. In answer to your more specific question, it is WAAAAAY more important to keep the wrist straight then to have the thumb on the back of the neck. Your thumb can move as needed to give you the leverage you need for a given lick. Just work to economize that motion so you're not changing it all the time. As long as you're following this guide at least 80% of the time, you should be fine. Thanks for watching. I'm glad you got something out of it!
Kevin, I really like the way you do explain all this. It's alway is so reasonable and seems so simple that I wonder why I never figured that out myself... If I lived closer to you I knew whom to choose as guitar teacher. Greetings from Hamburg!
I came here from the other video, this is very helpful. I find that my main issue is reaching for that E string with my pinky without muting the A string, even when I bend the wrist. I cant' yet tell if it is simply something I will need to "develop my own technique" for, or if I can just work to get a better stretch the way most people do it. I have been practicing for about 1.5 months, not long at all, and started to develop some serious wrist pain (I think it's compounding with typing all day for my job the ) from having a 90° wrist to reach that string pretty much. I will try to focus on having as straight a wrist as possible from now on. Thanks so much for the help :)
I'm glad this is helpful. Yes, it does take a little while to adapt the technique to your own unique anatomy. Since you've been working at this for only a month and a half I recommend a lot of patience. Take your time. Also, put your focus on developing the technique rather than the resulting sound. Many beginners work too hard to get the note to sound clearly and end up sacrificing their technique. focus on the technique and the sound will come soon enough. Good luck!
Great Video! Anatomically it all makes sense! I will try to adapt my techniques to this logic. It works good with common chords but I can’t figure out how not to bend the wrist with chords like a major or the a shape bar chord down the fretboard and other bar chords. Can you help us out there please?
It takes time to figure that out, for sure. I found that the solution lies in making small adjustments to how you hold the guitar, place your hand on the neck, curl your fingers, etc.. It's a lot of trial and error to find the right fit, so to speak, but it should eventually come together for you. Also, keep two things in mind: 1) barre chords are hard so you'll need to be patient while you build up stamina. And 2) you should be fine as long as you're keeping your wrist straight around 70% of the length of each song you play. Bending your wrist for the occassional barre chord, or throwing your thumb on top of the neck to bend a note won't do much harm as long as you return to the neutral wrist described here. I'm sorry there's no magic bullet for this one but I hope you find the answer helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions. Good luck!
the one thing he did not mention was the softer you pick the easier it is to fret so when you are starting out pick very softly till you get the left hand to do what it needs to do and then you can naturally pick harder once the left hand gets used to its new position to get the normal desired effect ,...and yes it will take some time and feel unnatural at first but then u will notice a lot of good things ,like you will be able to play bar chords much easier than you ever had and eventually a lot of things will fall into place on their own then you will feel like it was all worth it and you are making real progress but no doubt about it you really have to have that desire to master the guitar ,...everyone can play the guitar lousy but few play it well but your need to get your fingers to be fluid and if u don't practice correctly you will be spinning your wheels forever and get absolutely NOwhere !!!
And also that thumb position is key to all of this ,...it belongs behind the neck in the middle behind the second finger or between the second and third finger and not be seen on the top of the neck ,..yes lower the thumb ,..with the exception of bending or vibrato and the common first position chords like A,E,D, etc
Hey Kevin. Thanks for sharing your insights. As this is a video about the fretting hand I deliberately chose to exclude information about the picking hand (I'll have other videos for that). It's true that if you pick aggressively your fretting hand may apply a matching amount of force on the fretboard, making the lick difficult to play. However, I've found over the years that picking lightly can have an adverse affect on the tone, which can create a false impression about whether or not the technique is being executed correctly. However you choose to approach it, the important part is making sure you've got good independence in both hands. Thanks for watching, and for your comments.
This is such a great video for me. Much needed. Thanks so much!!!! GREAT VIDEO!!!! More people need to know about you. You deserve ALOT more subscribers. So u definitely need to be out there. U have been a huge help to me I know that!!!!
Good lord, thank you so much. I've been turning with a teacher for about a month who has given .e 3 chords to work on.: C, G and G7. I've done well with the G, but had so much trouble making the C and G7 that he's downgraded me to playing these on a single string. Following two of your videos, I've had amazing success by making the adjustments in posture and hand orientation. I'm almost ready to find another teacher who knows how to teach a beginner the simple things you do. Question: how do you feel about using a footstool, which I have been encouraged to do to increase my comfort with my guitar?
I'm so glad to hear of your success! Don't be too hard on your teacher though. I was playing for 15 years (half of which, professionally) before I figured it this kind of information out. Posture, orientation, and (to a lesser extent) movement are simply not taught. My guess is that many guitarists had to figure this out on their own so it doesn't occur to them to break down their technique to share that information with their students. As for your footstool question, my thought is to try it. They generally run around $15 US, so there's very little risk and the benefit could be huge. The whole idea really is to make sure that your arms support little to no weight from the guitar. This leaves your fingers free to move about and play. If you haven't seen my video on sitting with the guitar, check it out (ua-cam.com/video/8g4ZyzQSgRM/v-deo.html). It's been a little while since I shot it, I don't think I demonstrate the footstool specifically, but I do talk about what's supposed to happen when sitting the guitar in different positions. Good luck and hit me up if you have any other questions.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar thanks for your further info, and for your answer to my question on using a footstool. I've already been using it - my guitar teacher gave me one at my request. It seems to be helping me in the way you suggested. Also, loved your video on stretching. Plan to use those also as they made some muscles less tight. Btw, do you teach online?
Hi Yvonne. Sorry about the late reply. Yes, I do havae a couple of openings available. You can find my email address in the "About" section. Message me there and we can discuss it.
The important question is, how is it not straight? If you're flexing your thumb and using the tip of it against the neck, then you have to reset your orientation as I demonstrate in the video (planting the thumb flat on the neck first) and let your guitar playing sound the way it sounds... even if that sound is horrible. Your other fingers will need time to adjust to the new thumb orientation. Have patience and your fingers will figure it out. If you try to force the notes to sound good, you'll likely end up right back where you started. If your thumb is oriented so the pad is flat against the neck but isn't perpendicular to the neck, don't worry about it. It's really not supposed to be. It's not clear in this video but once I drop my hand and curl my fingers over the strings, I open my thumb like a windshield wiper toward the nut. This puts it at around a 45-degree angle across the neck. Let me know if that helps. If I didn't address your issue, let me know and I'll see if I can make it into a topic for a future video.
It's my pleasure. I don't know if you've seen it yet but there's another video about standing with the guitar. I demonstrate it with three different guitars and you'll see how I need to adjust the position for each guitar. You may find some helpful information there as well.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar yes, I have watched it. Its a good one. I thought I was getting it & then it started hurting again. I am actually on a new medication for my wrist & thumb & it's doing a whole lotta NOTHIN'! I am so discouraged. I just cant figure out what I'm doing wrong to where I am in pain.
@@mrs.hollerbredkennels-jana7891 Hmm. What kind of guitar are you playing? Electric? Acoustic? Have you had it set up recently? If your strings are too thick and set too hight above the neck, it can feel like going to the gym and trying to left 500 pounds on your first day. I'm actually goin to address this in my next video. Regardless of what kind of guitar you play, I'd recommend going down to .009 or even .008 gauge strings. I'd also take it to a shop (I don't usually recommend it but even Guitar Center should be able to handle this) and have then straighten the neck and lower the action. You can actually do these steps yourself in most cases but if you're unsure, take it to a pro the first couple of times. The thinner strings will sound brighter and a little brittle, but the relief from the tension should help a lot. I hope that makes sense.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar actually it really does make alotta sense. I play both. I mainly play a Fender Squier & a Daisy Rock acoustic. I also have a "Chibson" Les Paul which needs it. And I have another one that's cheaper but it's a Rogue. It was my 1st electric. But that one was set-up. The others havent been. It seems as if it doesnt matter what I play it still hurts. Oh yeah, I have 10s on them all. That could be a problem too. Thank u so much for taking the time to help me. It's much appreciated & I am looking forward to another video. I keep watching them over & over everyday hoping that I can GET IT!!!!!! I like your teaching style. I know it takes time. I think I'm overloading myself with all these different problems & bad habits that I've acquired. I'm trying to fix TOO MANY things @ once when in actuality I'm not fixing anything.
@@mrs.hollerbredkennels-jana7891 I think you've hit the nail on the head--trying to fix it all. I'd recommend picking no more than two for now. If I were in your shoes I might choose posture and fret-hand pressure. The next step could be to find your baselines: how long can you sit/stand with good posture, and avoid pain in the fretting hand? This becomes your new practice time. At this stage, I believe it's better to practice for 5 minutes every day than to practice 20 minutes every three days. Hopefully, that should give you enough time to do a short warmup and run a tune. As that becomes more comfortable you can up the time. Hope that helps.
I once got very painful type of RSI located in the back of my right hand whilst intensive classical guitar playing. I don't play classical anymore , but play electric guitar. Most pains I now experience through extensive playing are in my left hand. My arms and fingers never hurt.
Kevin O'Shaughnessy .... The arch in-between the thumb and the index finger currently can hurt, which I think is from playing too much without resting.Plus the occasional electric shock.... but I am older than you! When studying classical at grade 8 [Royal Associated Boards in England] the RSI I had in the back of my hand was investigated by specialists at my local hospital to rule out tendon sheath damage and many other possibilities. After all the extensive scans , etcetera, they said that the only thing it could be was Repetitive Strain Injury, which can only be cured by resting he hand→ it abated approximately 3 months after the exam[which I should have re-scheduled as the pain impairs performance, however much one tries to ignore it] ;~)
Gotcha. Yeah sounds like overall you may be putting too much pressure on the back of the neck with your thumb. You could try repositioning your thumb behind the neck (without moving your hand) and see if a new thumb position relieves the pain. Also, and I'm sure you've thought of this all ready, try switching to lighter strings and see if the neck needs adjustment. It can be kind of a long haul to sort this out and I had been a professional for 15 years before I finally did something about my issues. Keep at it and remember, it's not supposed to hurt. :) So take breaks when you need too. Good luck!
Kevin O'Shaughnessy Thank you or taking time to reply. I will try out your various ideas, recently i actually think it may be my elbow not being able to move freely , ..as I have to have my whole spine and neck supported at an angle reclining backwards. This is due to disability.. I use Ernie Ball 8s on my 2 main guitars. [Ibanez and Vigier] And rev Willys 7s in my travel guitar. ;~) keep up the good work... John in England
Hey John. That makes a lot of sense. Many times, the cause of the problem is in a slightly different location than the symptom. That can make it difficult to localize. All you can do is experiment and be patient. Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with. Good luck!
I have a question regarding which muscles are activated during pull offs. From what I understand it is a compound movement which involves both the flexors and extensors in the forearm. The extensor is used to lift the finger off the string, whilst the flexor is used to give the finger a downward force (towards the floor), which effectually plucks the string. Did I grasp this correctly? I a way this is also a contradiction for me, as the use of two opposing muscles/forces will logically cause stiffness in the finger, hindering its mobility. Would you have any thoughts?
You seem to have the general concept down correctly. My guess though is that rather than the opposing muscles causing the stiffness, it's simply the amount of force being used to pluck the string during the pull-off. Hammer-ons and pull-offs work kinda like spinning kicks in martial arts in that a lot of the force comes from momentum, not the the actual firing of the muscles. It's hard to practice a spinning kick slowly because you need the momentum of spinning to help you maintain your balance. I've found that momentum is pretty critical here as well. When practicing pull-offs slowly, I was doing a lot of plucking because it seemed like the only way I could get the second note to sound. Oncer I got the lick closer to tempo I found I didn't have time do the plucking motion for the pull-off. I somewhat instinctively started using that finger like the fretboard was a trampoline and let the pull-off finger bounce naturally off the string. Does that make sense? It sounds pretty bad at slow speeds because the second note gets deadened but at higher speeds (and I'm not talking shredding by any means) it really sounds good and both notes come out clean. Hope that helps.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar hey thanks for the answer... it definitely makes sense what you are saying, and having practiced legatos for the last 2 months, I understand your *trampoline analogy* .
I jammed my fret ring finger pretty bad 3 weeks ago. Continued to play, now pinky side of wrist and entire forearm killing me... how long should I completely rest everything? how long should I rehab or practice each day to correct these things? thanks for this video and any additional help
Well, for starters I would say that you should go to a doctor if you haven't done so already. After that, I don't know if there is a typical amount of time. You have to rest it for as long as it takes. I've had injuries that have taken days to heal while seemingly similar injuries have taken months. Since I'm not a doctor, I have no way of predicting. General rule: if hurts, stop. For myself, I would test from time to time during a healing process but if it hurt I stopped. That's the best I can recommend. I'm sorry I couldn't give you anything more concrete but good luck with it, and I hope you're playing again soon.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar thanks so much for feedback. Have doc appt today to figure out what's going on... hate not playing but better fix all now. been playing 8 months and increase my time daily probably over doing it and not doing it correctly or in w ay that limits the over extending. thanks again!
@@jefferyabridges Sure thing. And keep in mind that there's a lot you can do to learn music while you're recovering. I find that's a great time to review theory, song forms, note reading, or mentally going through the songs you already know. That way, you're still progressing so picking up your instrument again shouldn't feel like so much of a set back.
Hey Kevin, thanks for this video. I'm trying to troubleshoot my issue, and will try to make sure that I'm doing what you're suggesting, but I wonder if you've ever heard something like what I'm experiencing. I don't have any pain when I play, but some time after playing I'll feel pain in my thumb joint whenever I apply any squeezing force with my thumb. This pain when squeezing with my thumb can last days or weeks. Opening jars is out of the question, and even holding something like a plate that requires squeezing with my thumb can be painful. It got so bad I stopped playing altogether and went to see a hand specialist, but he didn't find anything definitively wrong. I'd appreciate any advice you can give. Thanks.
I'm not sure what I can offer that a trained hand specialist can't, but there is one thing I can think of that might be contributing to your issue and that's the orientation of the thumb behind the neck. It's not clear in this video unfortunately, but I'll explain as best I can. When you get your hand in what you feel is an appropriate orientation, try opening your thumb like a windshield wiper along the back of the neck, toward the headstock. It will probably end up at around a 45-degree angle from the palm of your hand. Also, make sure that the pad of your thumb is making contact with the neck. I've seen a lot of students try to use the tip of their thumb and this puts a lot of pressure on the joints. Finally, I'd check to see if maybe you're using too much pressure on the neck to get a good sound on the strings. Relaxing your grip may also give you some relief. If that doesn't help, bring your guitar to a physical therapist and see if they can help you sort out the orientation. Let me know if you have any other questions and best of luck!
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Well, the hand surgeon didn't see anything obviously wrong with my hand that would explain the pain, and suggested surgery as the next possible step to reduce tension on the tendon - so I'm naturally weary. I think my thumb normally falls between my 1st and 2nd finger. I can try angling it more towards the nut. It's possible that I'm using too much tension. It wouldn't surprise me if I'm tensing up during more difficult passages where I'm struggling. The pieces I was practicing when this pain started were Paul Gilbert's The Curse of Castle Dragon and a fast fingerpicking piece with frequent F bar chords. Any advice on not tensing up during challenging pieces? I didn't know that bringing a guitar to a physical therapist was something you could do. I haven't been able to play at all for the past couple weeks without having pain afterwards, so I'm getting desperate. :) If it hurt while playing I could at least figure out what not to do, but it feels fine while playing and then hurts an hour later. Thanks for you advice.
@@alextimo Sounds like the thumb orientation may be you're problem. Try this: with your hand palm up (supinated) bring your thumb in between your first and second finger as if you're playing the guitar. Now, with a finger on your other hand, poke the muscle just underneath your thumb and feel how tight it is from being flexed like that. Finally, release the thumb and let it open naturally. Feel how soft that muscle gets. If I understand correctly, you're forcing the thumb to press too hard against the neck for too long a period of time. Imagine how tired your arms would be if you had to push as hard as you could against a wall for the length of time you practice. I think that's what's happening to your thumb. This may could be compressing the joints of the thumb or causing it to flex or extend in uncomfortable ways. Not having seen you play, that's my guess. As for practicing difficult passages--the first step is to become aware of the tension. Make a fist with your left hand and squeeze it as hard as you can, then let it go. Feel the tension and release. Then play the diffcult passage at half-speed, very relaxed. Maybe just start with one or two bars. Process what it feels like to have your hand relaxed. Then play the part at full speed, trying to only move your fingers faster. If you feel the tension, stop and try again. You may feel a lack of control for a while. Your playing may even sound like it's going backwards and sound bad. Let it. Your fingers will find their way in the new, relaxed orientation. Lastly, be patient. I had fret hand problems when I was younger and I learned that you have to give the muscles and joints time to heal. You then have to give yourself time to develop coordination and stamina. Keep at it. I'm sure you'll get there.
Thanks Kevin, just came across this I know this is a problem for me after 6 mo off playing. Additional question, my fretting hand seems to creep up and touch the neck when I’m playing low on the fretboard like in the C chord or A minor chord will this fix that problem too? Thanks.
My pleasure. This could help, but not having seen your playing I can't know for sure. Is it really a problem? The most critical aspect of this technique is the straight wrist. The exact position and orientation of your hand can change depending on where you are on the neck. This exercise may help you figure out where the actual problems are, ua-cam.com/video/4Yn1km5gOio/v-deo.html And this one should help you figure out how to make the chords more comfortable. ua-cam.com/video/LjeorOPBwnc/v-deo.html Good luck!
It's been a while but I think I talk about it briefly in another video. Try this link: ua-cam.com/video/BqEmoJ2cags/v-deo.html The bottom line is that as long as your wrist is straight, you can cradle the back of the neck in the inside curve of the thumb (if that makes sense), and there's no pain, it should be fine. I typically don't recommend fretting notes with the thumb (though others have done it) but I will occasionally let the thumb come over the top of the neck for certain open chords. Hope this helps!
I have a question if I may, where is the arm supposed to be really....beside ur body or what? I know this is probably a stupid question. That's why this is such a perfect video for me. I am having alotta pain.
It's not a stupid question at all. Unfortunately, there is no one, easy answer. It is always dependent on the physical parameters of the instrument and the player. I usually start with my arms hanging naturally by my side and then lift the fretting arm at the elbow until it meets the neck (as demonstrated). Depending on the length of your arm (forearm especially) you hand could end up in a different neck position than someone else. For you, this may place your hand at the 7th fret but it might be the 5th fret for anyone else. This is where you need to adjust the position of the to comfortably reach the needed frets. The secret is to remember that you can use the whole arm (up to the shoulder) to make that adjustment. So you might rotate your shoulder slightly out to bring the and closer to the neck, then extend the arm forward slightly so that you can get your hand around the neck. Your elbow may hang out away from your body but that doesn't matter as long as there is no pain and the notes sound good. Would it be helpful if I did a video on these variations?
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Thank u so very much for taking the time to explain this to me in detail. I really appreciate ya!!!! And yes that would be great. That is if u can. Like I said, I completely understand how busy life can get. Thanks again...so much. The detail in itself will help alot.
Hi Kevin, i found the video super helpful, however i still have an issue which i was wondering if you were familiar with ? my fingers seem to have a very hard time going down on the fret board in the correct place (they bunch up close together ) , which is therefore causing my fingers to hold down hard on the strings and my hand tenses up. in short what do i need to do to get my fingers to spread out on the fret board with ease in the correct frets ? thank you very much in advance. Mayer
Hey Mayer. I do have a couple of exercises that can help you with that. You can incorporate them into your warm-up. It's probably a little complicated to describe in a YT comment so look for a video on it in the next two weeks (I've got another one in process for next week). I post every Wednesday at 3pm. In the meantime, can you let me know what types of songs/exercises you're currently working on? It will help me make the video a little more useful to you.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar That is great to hear! and really appreciate the help, will definitely look out for those videos you mentioned .So honestly i am not working on anything in particular, i have picked up the guitar a week go after having not played in 11 years, so just doing everything i can to relearn with all the CORRECT habits. I want to keep away from old songs i used to play (Comfort zone) until i get the fingers exercises down pat the CORRECT way using all the fingers etc. would you say that is advisable or no? Thank you again for your time and expertise.
@@mayerbeno7338 Gotcha. I wouldn't avoid old songs though. For those students who are returning to the guitar after a hiatus, I usually suggest spending most of the time on old material. Remember, most people play an instrument because it's fun. What can be more fun than playing stuff you know you can play? This way, you treat it like starting a running routine. I've often heard it recommended to run for 30 seconds walk for a minute (or two). As you build more stamina, you add more running time and take away some walking time. Does that make sense? With guitar, you start with what you know and add one, small new thing. Then you can gradually shift the balance between new and old material. Hope that helps.
Sorry for thrid reply. If I'm sitting up straight i can't play claw style with my pinky or it hurts my back and wrist. I have to lay it flat muting all lower strings. I also can't stretch my fingers as far and most can't reach the fret lines. However if I'm hunched my shoulders hurt in a few minutes and my hand itself hurts.
@@booksmeow1633 What kind of guitar are you playing? And have you seen my video specifically on sitting with the guitar? That might clear up some of the issues you're describing.
I can't seem to keep the pad of my thumb on the back of the neck, it's mainly the bony part of my thumb that presses against the neck but even then, I'd have to bend my wrist quite a bit to reach the 6th string. The most comfortable position I've adapted so far is to have my thumb way above the neck (not hanging over), which has allowed me to keep my wrist straight and fret comfortably, is that normal for someone with a little above average hand size?
It's not uncommon and, aside from the chords you're having trouble playing, it's not bad but it's not ideal. If you watch the video again from around 5:04, I demonstrate how to position the hand. What is not clear in the video, and I just noticed this now, is HOW to move the thumb into proper postion. After I demonstrate dropping the hand so that the pinky touches the 6th string, I recommend dropping the thumb behind the neck so the pad of the thumb pushes against the neck. If you drop the thumb straight down it will force you to bend the wrist. Is that what you're experiencing? I'm actually rotating the thumb toward the headstock (like a windshield wiper) in order to achieve the right postion, which is not clear on the video. Hopefully that clears up the confusion. If not let me know and I'll do what I can to help you out, maybe even put it into a new video. Good luck!
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Thank you for the clarification! I think I’ve found the right position when the pads are touching the back of the neck. My wrist is not completely straight but it doesn’t curve to the point where it gets super tensed and painful.
@@kujaa1831 Awesome! And remember, none of this is absolute. Make adjustments to everything until it feels good for you. If your wrist has a little bend jbut doesn't hurt, that's totally cool. There is almost always a mechanical solution for almost every guitar plyaing issue and those solutions will be different for each player. Good work and keep rockin'!
Hey MIchael. No, you're not wrong. My wrist is a little bent at that time. What I think I neglected to mention in the video is that we're striving for a straight wrist MOST of the time. As your technique and your facility on the instrument develop, you'll likely find times where you need to fudge this guide a little. Many times when doing bends I have to put my thumb over the neck to get the right leverage. It's there for a second and then back to recommended orientation. In my observation, if you can keep your wrist straight 80% of the time (this number is a total guess by the way) you should be fine. Just remember that the wrist should almost never be rigid. Try to keep it as relaxed as you can, and use only the muscles you need. Hope that clears up any confusion.
Kevin O'Shaughnessy damn man, so quick, thanks for the response. Ye, I saw a similar answer of yours in the comments. It’s just, that to keep wrist straight at bar chords i am losing the space between the neck and the palm. Or it extremely tense. Or I can’t reach the low E. I am in the process of reworking my technique due to overplaying with bad wrist form and atm it’s extremely annoying, but I guess it’s part of the journey. p.s. I think thumb over neck has its time and place.
@@MGibsonJames I do what I can. :) And it's OK to lose space between the neck and the palm playing barre chords, especially if it helps your hand, wrist, whatever, relax. I generally recommend having that space to aoivd grabbing the neck like a baseball bat, and to give the fingers enough space to move quickly. But to play a barre chord it may be necessary to get closer to that bat-style grip. There's a certain give and take with all of this stuff. Let me know if you have any other questions.
The setup of the guitar is a little more important than whether it's acoustic or electric. What do your favorite artists play? If they're largely acoustic players, then get an acoustic. If not, then get an electric. After that, take it to a tech who can set it up with strings that are appropriate for the kind of music you want to learn to play, and make the action as low as the instrument will bare. The combination of the two characteristics should make the process more enjoyable. I hope that's helpful. Good luck!
You're right. It does appear a little bent, especially from that angle. One thing I forgot to mention is that while there are tendencies that show up often, few things are absolute. My wrist may look a little bent in the video but I felt no pain during the demonstration. A gentle curve to the wrist certainly is not a problem. And there are times when my hand changes orientations rather drastically when I play. The key is to discover what works for you to get the lick out correctly and with no pain. Hope that helps.
@@gibraanbutt6062 Happy to help! Yes, "slightly" is the key here. I would also add that it's a matter of time as well. For example, if 80% of the time that you play your wrist is basically neutral, then having to flex or extend it the other 20% of the time to get specific licks should be no problem. It's when your wrist is in those flexed or extended periods most of the time that you can develop some serious problems.
Kevin O'Shaughnessy Thank you again 😄. Maybe you can make a video on “how to hold a pick for fast picking on an acoustic guitar”in the future. I’ve Subbed BTW 👍🏻😄
Finally someone explains how and WHY you hold your hand in a certain position. This was an eye opener. Thank you!
I'm glad I could help!
yes indeed!. I began my musical journey at 72, and just as you said, I gripped the neck too hard, causing CARPALtunnel. consequently, surgery was needed.I now take it slow, with focus, and am improving.
It's easy to do. I almost ran into a similar problem when I was younger. I'm glad to hear you're improving. Rock on!
Thanks dude, I’ve been playing 13 years and have always struggled with managing wrist pain. I’ve watched countless UA-cam videos and they all vaguely said similar things. But your explanation of how the tendons work and what causes that extra strain on them is what I needed. I also needed the reassurance that it’s okay to feel like taking a couple steps back. I never wanted to change my play style because I felt I was really getting good and didn’t want to lose that. But after 13 years of cramped wrists it’s time to change my wrist angle lol. Thanks again man.
Glad you found it helpful!
I got into to this problem after decades of on and off playing I’ll check it out. Thanks
Howdy Kevin, thanks so much for making the time to do these videos to address the issues of proper guitar posture, I’m a 63 yr old beginner on a custom Jon Kammerer acoustic electric Pegasus guitar, he put .009 strings on it to aid in the learning process, but as a newbie, your detailed concise info on posture is priceless, besides the normal early fret finger pains, my left forearm was killing me, posture was all wrong, when I followed your advice and angled the guitar head stock further upward (like a flamenco guitarist), that made such an improvement, not only less forearm pain, but I was able to begin better finger placement on the fretboard.
Interesting side note, I tried to teach myself acoustic guitar many years ago using a large bodied nylon string thrift store used guitar, it was so frustrating, the action was so bad, it didn’t fit comfortably against my side, plus being young and impatient….the internet hadn’t been invented yet ( yikes, I am old) the old saying
“youth breeds impatience”, we’ll, I’m not so young anymore, I’m trying to be more patient by using wisdom and with your videos, do this thing we all guitarists are trying to accomplish, eeek out some tunes and enjoy the journey of learning!
Thanks again, especially your replies to many of the commenters have been very helpful and encouraging.
Keep rock in!
Wow! Good for you for picking up the guitar again. Thank you for the kind words. I’m glad you found this so helpful. You keep rockin’ as well! Best of luck to you.
I’m so glad, that I’ve found your videos right at the start of my guitar journey!
Man I watched 2 of your videos and I thought like “why does this guy has so little subs?”
You’re doing great stuff! Keep it up! You just helped me a lot with those posture tips! Thanks man!
Thanks! I'm glad it's helpful.
Great information, going to put this (hopefully) to good use.
TOTALLY underrated channel!!!! This is just so damn helpful, especially how you work through the physical/anatomic background! First time on youtube, I found such explanation and detailed step-by-step instruction. Thank you!
I play only a year now and second time: tendonitis. It didn't even hurt, while playing, so no warning signs (which is really mean). But afterwards --> damaged wrist again! Been to the doctor: wrist joint all filled with liquid, not healthy at all. Totally disencouraged I started thinking, can I even learn the guitar with this (and my kid-size hands)?
But here, and also seeing all the comments of those who successfully tried it out (thx guys/ladies): I for sure will follow this instruction and take special time just focussing on that. And then headn towards improving and enjoying my supercool hobby instead next pain episode.
Good lesson. Thank you, sir.
Literally the best video on this I’ve ever seen! You are such a good teacher.
This js really great. I've known guitar for 10 years now and stopped playing in college. Now I'm starting again and realized how wrong my hand positions were. I'm now trying to regain my guitar skills while correcting these bad habits. Your lesson is very informative. Rock on 🤘
Thank you Kevin for this (and other corrective posture videos). I've only been playing for 4 months, but have previous wrist and finger injuries from sports. That along with wrong positioning of my wrist while learning & practicing my first barre and power chords has been painful. Having small hands & short fingers I was also struggling with reaching certain notes. After applying what you taught us in this video, I had my first 1 hour pain free practice session tonight, and my barre chords were much easier to fret and strum correctly! The point you highlighted about the fingers needing to be parallel to the forearm and not the fretboard was a huge light bulb moment for me that helped me correct many wrong chord and scale hand positions.
My wrist and forearms are much more relaxed while practicing now. Will be mindful of these corrective postural changes (also loved your back posture video) while practicing from now on to avoid future bad habits and recurring pain. Thank you so much!
My pleasure! I'm so glad this helped you. Rock on!
Very interesting.. I began revamping my technique about 6 months ago to remove bad habits and my playing took a temporary nosedive.. however, now my playing is way smoother than I had imagined in such a short period.
This is some very important information to have from the beginning. If only I had this 30 years ago! I wouldn’t have taken 20+ years off
I have developed so many bad habits within this short year & 1/2 or so. I'm trying to do that same thing myself. It's so hard "unlearning" what has became the norm. I'm glad that u was able to fix ur issues:)))
Thank you for providing guideline about holdings the guitar I really appreciates regards,
Syed Asif Ali.
Brilliant video very insightful, thank you
So glad I found this video on my first day. Thanks a bunch! You saved my hand from an eternity of pain
Glad I could help! You'll find more videos on my channel that should prove useful as well.
Thanks you have just explained most clearly wrist position for me which been searching UA-cam for
Glad I could help. Be sure to check out my other videos.
Hey thanks a lot! I've been looking on youtube for months trying to find a precise explanation of proper guitar fretting hand technique. I will certainly check out more of your guitar videos!
Glad you found it helpful. Be sure to subscribe if you haven't done so already so you can get notified when I add more. I should be adding some next month.
This addressed every problem/ question i had. Thank you so much for this video
Glad it was helpful!
I love this video and found it very helpful. One thing you might add is that different people have different degrees of natural pronation. Analogous to how people hold golf clubs differently, some people, when they let their arms dangle loosely in front of them show more of their knuckles when they look at a mirror in front of them (pronators). Others show their thumb more or even their palm when they look in a mirror (supinators). The more you naturally pronate, the higher the neck of the guitar needs to be to feel comfortable.
That is good to know. I’ll have to look into that more. Thanks for mentioning that. By any chance are you a physical therapist, or something related? I mention throughout my videos that I am not so it’s always helpful to get feedback from people who really know this subject, and not just how it pertains to guitar.
Thank u so very very much for doing these Kevin. You have made alot of ppl happy with these becuz this is something that is vital in making one a good player & not many ppl do them. THAT IS WHY I AM 2 YEARS INTO PLAYING & STILL HAVE PROBLEMS. I WAS NEVER TAUGHT THIS & IT HAS CAUSED ME WAY TOO MUCH PAIN. But I am super appreciative & I have watched every single one. Multiple times.
It's my pleasure! I'm glad to hear you're getting so much out of them.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar thank u...I am.
This is a great lesson.
I realized that my wrist position was wrong, and I felt a lot of pain till nowadays...
Now I'm on physiotherapy
Lubricant and all that 😢
But the real struggle started when I switched to 7 strings guitar...
I also think that if you play on 7,8 strings guitar this technique not works...
My problem is when I play on first fret and above, but in middle of the nech or after 12 fret it's fine
It's true, the wider necks do require a bit of adaptation. I never took the time to develop the feel for a 7 or 8 string guitar. Those lower frets may require a slight bend in the wrist or straighter fingers. I wonder if that's why I see so many 7-string Metal riffs focus on using the open strings while fretting notes mainly in the middle of the neck. That's just my observation; I haven't followed the genre in a while.
This has to be the best video/lesson on how to position the fretting hand. No doubts
Thank you! I'm glad you found it helpful.
Great video, Kevin! This is my #1 issue - keeping my wrist straight so that I don't feel strain. I also liked the advice re: the amount of pressure to put on a string. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, wisdom and tips in an encouraging and motivating way. I look forward to each of your videos!
Thanks, Carolyn. I'm glad you're getting a lot out of them.
I appreciate your insight. I have a painful thumb on my fret hand. Not a good thing.
This might be the best video I've seen on the topic yet. Just subscribed. Thanks!
Thanks it really helped.
Vital content for any guitarist of any level IMHO, liked, subbed etc 👍👍
Thank you!
@Kevin O'Shaughnessy YW 😁 need to see if u do a painful finger joint vid, hoping its Tendonitis and not Arthritis, playing again after many years, appreciate your focused videos 👍
@@mikealman9259 That's a little out of my area of expertise. If I were to be experiencing joint pain, and simple shifts in orientation or reducing the amount of pressure I was appying to the strings didn't solve the problem over time, I would see a doctor. Hopefully, it's nothing serious.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Thanks for the reply, after laying off the acoustic since buying an electric guitar, I've noticed an improvement with it needing much lighter pressure so I'm relieved to say it's more than likely tendonitis, that and your excellent videos have emphasised the importance of correct posture, wrist angle etc, as I'm about to hit 60 😱 u just can't get away with things u could when younger lol. 👍
I'm kind of obsessive about correct position since I easily will suffer a strain, which sometimes puts my practice basically on hold. I will gladly step "backward" to slow everything down to acquire the skills to play for the rest of my life, comfortably and safely. I really appreciated the thoroughness of the video, especially the encouragement to accept the reality that re-learning fretting hand technique can be long and cumbersome, but the effort is completely worth the freedom to play. I almost wept finding that fleeting feeling I have felt before, but couldn't quite find a way to position it like "home base" kind of idea. Your description about how to get into position gives me hope that I can now improve my technique to hopefully prevent a relapse of pain from strain. Thank you!
Thanks for watching. I hope it helps.
Great vid, thanks for sharing! Trying to keep my wrist straight while playing now, but it's especially difficult for me when stretching the fingers over several frets up and down the neck. Maybe I just need to work on it. Also is it more important to keep your wrist straight or to keep the thumb completely on the back of the neck? Because I'm having some trouble doing both at the same time.
Thanks again :)
Hey Lise.
Thanks for the questions. First thing to keep in mind is that this will probably take a while to get used to. I didn't keep great track of it when I was having problems, but I'd say it took about 9 months for me to get this down, if I were to guess. In answer to your more specific question, it is WAAAAAY more important to keep the wrist straight then to have the thumb on the back of the neck. Your thumb can move as needed to give you the leverage you need for a given lick. Just work to economize that motion so you're not changing it all the time. As long as you're following this guide at least 80% of the time, you should be fine.
Thanks for watching. I'm glad you got something out of it!
Kevin, I really like the way you do explain all this. It's alway is so reasonable and seems so simple that I wonder why I never figured that out myself... If I lived closer to you I knew whom to choose as guitar teacher. Greetings from Hamburg!
Thank you. It took me 15 years to figure this stuff out, then probably another 5 to figure out how to teach it to people. Keep rockin'!
I came here from the other video, this is very helpful. I find that my main issue is reaching for that E string with my pinky without muting the A string, even when I bend the wrist. I cant' yet tell if it is simply something I will need to "develop my own technique" for, or if I can just work to get a better stretch the way most people do it. I have been practicing for about 1.5 months, not long at all, and started to develop some serious wrist pain (I think it's compounding with typing all day for my job the ) from having a 90° wrist to reach that string pretty much. I will try to focus on having as straight a wrist as possible from now on. Thanks so much for the help :)
I'm glad this is helpful. Yes, it does take a little while to adapt the technique to your own unique anatomy. Since you've been working at this for only a month and a half I recommend a lot of patience. Take your time. Also, put your focus on developing the technique rather than the resulting sound. Many beginners work too hard to get the note to sound clearly and end up sacrificing their technique. focus on the technique and the sound will come soon enough. Good luck!
Thanks for this one ❤️
I'm glad it's useful.
Great Video! Anatomically it all makes sense! I will try to adapt my techniques to this logic. It works good with common chords but I can’t figure out how not to bend the wrist with chords like a major or the a shape bar chord down the fretboard and other bar chords. Can you help us out there please?
It takes time to figure that out, for sure. I found that the solution lies in making small adjustments to how you hold the guitar, place your hand on the neck, curl your fingers, etc.. It's a lot of trial and error to find the right fit, so to speak, but it should eventually come together for you. Also, keep two things in mind: 1) barre chords are hard so you'll need to be patient while you build up stamina. And 2) you should be fine as long as you're keeping your wrist straight around 70% of the length of each song you play. Bending your wrist for the occassional barre chord, or throwing your thumb on top of the neck to bend a note won't do much harm as long as you return to the neutral wrist described here. I'm sorry there's no magic bullet for this one but I hope you find the answer helpful. Let me know if you have any other questions. Good luck!
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Thanx! You are right - Patience is part of the problem. 😜 And yes - the small things matter … have a good time!
Thanks kevin i will take your advice regards ian b.
the one thing he did not mention was the softer you pick the easier it is to fret so when you are starting out pick very softly till you get the left hand to do what it needs to do and then you can naturally pick harder once the left hand gets used to its new position to get the normal desired effect ,...and yes it will take some time and feel unnatural at first but then u will notice a lot of good things ,like you will be able to play bar chords much easier than you ever had and eventually a lot of things will fall into place on their own then you will feel like it was all worth it and you are making real progress but no doubt about it you really have to have that desire to master the guitar ,...everyone can play the guitar lousy but few play it well but your need to get your fingers to be fluid and if u don't practice correctly you will be spinning your wheels forever and get absolutely NOwhere !!!
And also that thumb position is key to all of this ,...it belongs behind the neck in the middle behind the second finger or between the second and third finger and not be seen on the top of the neck ,..yes lower the thumb ,..with the exception of bending or vibrato and the common first position chords like A,E,D, etc
And finally place all four fingers on all four frets so that you can hit any fret without moving your hand,..... been there ,...good luck !!!
Hey Kevin. Thanks for sharing your insights. As this is a video about the fretting hand I deliberately chose to exclude information about the picking hand (I'll have other videos for that). It's true that if you pick aggressively your fretting hand may apply a matching amount of force on the fretboard, making the lick difficult to play. However, I've found over the years that picking lightly can have an adverse affect on the tone, which can create a false impression about whether or not the technique is being executed correctly. However you choose to approach it, the important part is making sure you've got good independence in both hands. Thanks for watching, and for your comments.
This is such a great video for me. Much needed. Thanks so much!!!! GREAT VIDEO!!!! More people need to know about you. You deserve ALOT more subscribers. So u definitely need to be out there. U have been a huge help to me I know that!!!!
Thank you! I'm so glad to hear that.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar you are very welcome.
Good lord, thank you so much. I've been turning with a teacher for about a month who has given .e 3 chords to work on.: C, G and G7. I've done well with the G, but had so much trouble making the C and G7 that he's downgraded me to playing these on a single string. Following two of your videos, I've had amazing success by making the adjustments in posture and hand orientation. I'm almost ready to find another teacher who knows how to teach a beginner the simple things you do.
Question: how do you feel about using a footstool, which I have been encouraged to do to increase my comfort with my guitar?
I'm so glad to hear of your success! Don't be too hard on your teacher though. I was playing for 15 years (half of which, professionally) before I figured it this kind of information out. Posture, orientation, and (to a lesser extent) movement are simply not taught. My guess is that many guitarists had to figure this out on their own so it doesn't occur to them to break down their technique to share that information with their students.
As for your footstool question, my thought is to try it. They generally run around $15 US, so there's very little risk and the benefit could be huge. The whole idea really is to make sure that your arms support little to no weight from the guitar. This leaves your fingers free to move about and play.
If you haven't seen my video on sitting with the guitar, check it out (ua-cam.com/video/8g4ZyzQSgRM/v-deo.html). It's been a little while since I shot it, I don't think I demonstrate the footstool specifically, but I do talk about what's supposed to happen when sitting the guitar in different positions. Good luck and hit me up if you have any other questions.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar thanks for your further info, and for your answer to my question on using a footstool. I've already been using it - my guitar teacher gave me one at my request. It seems to be helping me in the way you suggested. Also, loved your video on stretching. Plan to use those also as they made some muscles less tight. Btw, do you teach online?
Hi Yvonne. Sorry about the late reply. Yes, I do havae a couple of openings available. You can find my email address in the "About" section. Message me there and we can discuss it.
Thanks for the tips. One problem I have is that my thumb doesn’t want to straighten when it’s behind the neck. Any thoughts?
The important question is, how is it not straight?
If you're flexing your thumb and using the tip of it against the neck, then you have to reset your orientation as I demonstrate in the video (planting the thumb flat on the neck first) and let your guitar playing sound the way it sounds... even if that sound is horrible. Your other fingers will need time to adjust to the new thumb orientation. Have patience and your fingers will figure it out. If you try to force the notes to sound good, you'll likely end up right back where you started.
If your thumb is oriented so the pad is flat against the neck but isn't perpendicular to the neck, don't worry about it. It's really not supposed to be. It's not clear in this video but once I drop my hand and curl my fingers over the strings, I open my thumb like a windshield wiper toward the nut. This puts it at around a 45-degree angle across the neck.
Let me know if that helps. If I didn't address your issue, let me know and I'll see if I can make it into a topic for a future video.
I'm so glad that u do these videos! They r so very helpful & I DEF need them!! Cuz I am without a doubt doing something wrong.
It's my pleasure. I don't know if you've seen it yet but there's another video about standing with the guitar. I demonstrate it with three different guitars and you'll see how I need to adjust the position for each guitar. You may find some helpful information there as well.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar yes, I have watched it. Its a good one. I thought I was getting it & then it started hurting again. I am actually on a new medication for my wrist & thumb & it's doing a whole lotta NOTHIN'! I am so discouraged. I just cant figure out what I'm doing wrong to where I am in pain.
@@mrs.hollerbredkennels-jana7891 Hmm. What kind of guitar are you playing? Electric? Acoustic? Have you had it set up recently? If your strings are too thick and set too hight above the neck, it can feel like going to the gym and trying to left 500 pounds on your first day. I'm actually goin to address this in my next video. Regardless of what kind of guitar you play, I'd recommend going down to .009 or even .008 gauge strings. I'd also take it to a shop (I don't usually recommend it but even Guitar Center should be able to handle this) and have then straighten the neck and lower the action. You can actually do these steps yourself in most cases but if you're unsure, take it to a pro the first couple of times. The thinner strings will sound brighter and a little brittle, but the relief from the tension should help a lot. I hope that makes sense.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar actually it really does make alotta sense. I play both. I mainly play a Fender Squier & a Daisy Rock acoustic. I also have a "Chibson" Les Paul which needs it. And I have another one that's cheaper but it's a Rogue. It was my 1st electric. But that one was set-up. The others havent been. It seems as if it doesnt matter what I play it still hurts. Oh yeah, I have 10s on them all. That could be a problem too. Thank u so much for taking the time to help me. It's much appreciated & I am looking forward to another video. I keep watching them over & over everyday hoping that I can GET IT!!!!!! I like your teaching style. I know it takes time. I think I'm overloading myself with all these different problems & bad habits that I've acquired. I'm trying to fix TOO MANY things @ once when in actuality I'm not fixing anything.
@@mrs.hollerbredkennels-jana7891 I think you've hit the nail on the head--trying to fix it all. I'd recommend picking no more than two for now. If I were in your shoes I might choose posture and fret-hand pressure. The next step could be to find your baselines: how long can you sit/stand with good posture, and avoid pain in the fretting hand? This becomes your new practice time. At this stage, I believe it's better to practice for 5 minutes every day than to practice 20 minutes every three days. Hopefully, that should give you enough time to do a short warmup and run a tune. As that becomes more comfortable you can up the time. Hope that helps.
I once got very painful type of RSI located in the back of my right hand whilst intensive classical guitar playing.
I don't play classical anymore , but play electric guitar. Most pains I now experience through extensive playing are in my left hand. My arms and fingers never hurt.
Hey. Sorry, I'm just seeing this now. Where in your hand does it hurt?
Kevin O'Shaughnessy ....
The arch in-between the thumb and the index finger currently can hurt, which I think is from playing too much without resting.Plus the occasional electric shock.... but I am older than you!
When studying classical at grade 8 [Royal Associated Boards in England] the RSI I had in the back of my hand was investigated by specialists at my local hospital to rule out tendon sheath damage and many other possibilities.
After all the extensive scans , etcetera, they said that the only thing it could be was Repetitive Strain Injury, which can only be cured by resting he hand→ it abated approximately 3 months after the exam[which I should have re-scheduled as the pain impairs performance, however much one tries to ignore it]
;~)
Gotcha. Yeah sounds like overall you may be putting too much pressure on the back of the neck with your thumb. You could try repositioning your thumb behind the neck (without moving your hand) and see if a new thumb position relieves the pain. Also, and I'm sure you've thought of this all ready, try switching to lighter strings and see if the neck needs adjustment.
It can be kind of a long haul to sort this out and I had been a professional for 15 years before I finally did something about my issues. Keep at it and remember, it's not supposed to hurt. :) So take breaks when you need too. Good luck!
Kevin O'Shaughnessy
Thank you or taking time to reply.
I will try out your various ideas, recently i actually think it may be my elbow not being able to move freely ,
..as I have to have my whole spine and neck supported at an angle reclining backwards. This is due to disability..
I use Ernie Ball 8s on my 2 main guitars.
[Ibanez and Vigier]
And rev Willys 7s in my travel guitar.
;~) keep up the good work...
John in England
Hey John. That makes a lot of sense. Many times, the cause of the problem is in a slightly different location than the symptom. That can make it difficult to localize. All you can do is experiment and be patient. Let me know if there's anything else I can help you with. Good luck!
I have a question regarding which muscles are activated during pull offs. From what I understand it is a compound movement which involves both the flexors and extensors in the forearm. The extensor is used to lift the finger off the string, whilst the flexor is used to give the finger a downward force (towards the floor), which effectually plucks the string.
Did I grasp this correctly?
I a way this is also a contradiction for me, as the use of two opposing muscles/forces will logically cause stiffness in the finger, hindering its mobility.
Would you have any thoughts?
You seem to have the general concept down correctly. My guess though is that rather than the opposing muscles causing the stiffness, it's simply the amount of force being used to pluck the string during the pull-off.
Hammer-ons and pull-offs work kinda like spinning kicks in martial arts in that a lot of the force comes from momentum, not the the actual firing of the muscles. It's hard to practice a spinning kick slowly because you need the momentum of spinning to help you maintain your balance. I've found that momentum is pretty critical here as well.
When practicing pull-offs slowly, I was doing a lot of plucking because it seemed like the only way I could get the second note to sound. Oncer I got the lick closer to tempo I found I didn't have time do the plucking motion for the pull-off. I somewhat instinctively started using that finger like the fretboard was a trampoline and let the pull-off finger bounce naturally off the string. Does that make sense?
It sounds pretty bad at slow speeds because the second note gets deadened but at higher speeds (and I'm not talking shredding by any means) it really sounds good and both notes come out clean.
Hope that helps.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar hey thanks for the answer... it definitely makes sense what you are saying, and having practiced legatos for the last 2 months, I understand your *trampoline analogy* .
I jammed my fret ring finger pretty bad 3 weeks ago. Continued to play, now pinky side of wrist and entire forearm killing me... how long should I completely rest everything? how long should I rehab or practice each day to correct these things? thanks for this video and any additional help
Well, for starters I would say that you should go to a doctor if you haven't done so already. After that, I don't know if there is a typical amount of time. You have to rest it for as long as it takes. I've had injuries that have taken days to heal while seemingly similar injuries have taken months. Since I'm not a doctor, I have no way of predicting. General rule: if hurts, stop. For myself, I would test from time to time during a healing process but if it hurt I stopped. That's the best I can recommend. I'm sorry I couldn't give you anything more concrete but good luck with it, and I hope you're playing again soon.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar thanks so much for feedback. Have doc appt today to figure out what's going on... hate not playing but better fix all now. been playing 8 months and increase my time daily probably over doing it and not doing it correctly or in w ay that limits the over extending. thanks again!
@@jefferyabridges Sure thing. And keep in mind that there's a lot you can do to learn music while you're recovering. I find that's a great time to review theory, song forms, note reading, or mentally going through the songs you already know. That way, you're still progressing so picking up your instrument again shouldn't feel like so much of a set back.
Hey Kevin, thanks for this video. I'm trying to troubleshoot my issue, and will try to make sure that I'm doing what you're suggesting, but I wonder if you've ever heard something like what I'm experiencing.
I don't have any pain when I play, but some time after playing I'll feel pain in my thumb joint whenever I apply any squeezing force with my thumb. This pain when squeezing with my thumb can last days or weeks. Opening jars is out of the question, and even holding something like a plate that requires squeezing with my thumb can be painful. It got so bad I stopped playing altogether and went to see a hand specialist, but he didn't find anything definitively wrong.
I'd appreciate any advice you can give. Thanks.
I'm not sure what I can offer that a trained hand specialist can't, but there is one thing I can think of that might be contributing to your issue and that's the orientation of the thumb behind the neck. It's not clear in this video unfortunately, but I'll explain as best I can. When you get your hand in what you feel is an appropriate orientation, try opening your thumb like a windshield wiper along the back of the neck, toward the headstock. It will probably end up at around a 45-degree angle from the palm of your hand. Also, make sure that the pad of your thumb is making contact with the neck. I've seen a lot of students try to use the tip of their thumb and this puts a lot of pressure on the joints. Finally, I'd check to see if maybe you're using too much pressure on the neck to get a good sound on the strings. Relaxing your grip may also give you some relief. If that doesn't help, bring your guitar to a physical therapist and see if they can help you sort out the orientation. Let me know if you have any other questions and best of luck!
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Well, the hand surgeon didn't see anything obviously wrong with my hand that would explain the pain, and suggested surgery as the next possible step to reduce tension on the tendon - so I'm naturally weary.
I think my thumb normally falls between my 1st and 2nd finger. I can try angling it more towards the nut.
It's possible that I'm using too much tension. It wouldn't surprise me if I'm tensing up during more difficult passages where I'm struggling. The pieces I was practicing when this pain started were Paul Gilbert's The Curse of Castle Dragon and a fast fingerpicking piece with frequent F bar chords. Any advice on not tensing up during challenging pieces?
I didn't know that bringing a guitar to a physical therapist was something you could do. I haven't been able to play at all for the past couple weeks without having pain afterwards, so I'm getting desperate. :) If it hurt while playing I could at least figure out what not to do, but it feels fine while playing and then hurts an hour later.
Thanks for you advice.
@@alextimo Sounds like the thumb orientation may be you're problem. Try this: with your hand palm up (supinated) bring your thumb in between your first and second finger as if you're playing the guitar. Now, with a finger on your other hand, poke the muscle just underneath your thumb and feel how tight it is from being flexed like that. Finally, release the thumb and let it open naturally. Feel how soft that muscle gets. If I understand correctly, you're forcing the thumb to press too hard against the neck for too long a period of time. Imagine how tired your arms would be if you had to push as hard as you could against a wall for the length of time you practice. I think that's what's happening to your thumb. This may could be compressing the joints of the thumb or causing it to flex or extend in uncomfortable ways. Not having seen you play, that's my guess.
As for practicing difficult passages--the first step is to become aware of the tension. Make a fist with your left hand and squeeze it as hard as you can, then let it go. Feel the tension and release. Then play the diffcult passage at half-speed, very relaxed. Maybe just start with one or two bars. Process what it feels like to have your hand relaxed. Then play the part at full speed, trying to only move your fingers faster. If you feel the tension, stop and try again. You may feel a lack of control for a while. Your playing may even sound like it's going backwards and sound bad. Let it. Your fingers will find their way in the new, relaxed orientation.
Lastly, be patient. I had fret hand problems when I was younger and I learned that you have to give the muscles and joints time to heal. You then have to give yourself time to develop coordination and stamina. Keep at it. I'm sure you'll get there.
Thanks Kevin, just came across this I know this is a problem for me after 6 mo off playing. Additional question, my fretting hand seems to creep up and touch the neck when I’m playing low on the fretboard like in the C chord or A minor chord will this fix that problem too? Thanks.
My pleasure. This could help, but not having seen your playing I can't know for sure. Is it really a problem? The most critical aspect of this technique is the straight wrist. The exact position and orientation of your hand can change depending on where you are on the neck. This exercise may help you figure out where the actual problems are, ua-cam.com/video/4Yn1km5gOio/v-deo.html
And this one should help you figure out how to make the chords more comfortable. ua-cam.com/video/LjeorOPBwnc/v-deo.html
Good luck!
how about the thumb over fretboard posture ?
It's been a while but I think I talk about it briefly in another video. Try this link: ua-cam.com/video/BqEmoJ2cags/v-deo.html
The bottom line is that as long as your wrist is straight, you can cradle the back of the neck in the inside curve of the thumb (if that makes sense), and there's no pain, it should be fine. I typically don't recommend fretting notes with the thumb (though others have done it) but I will occasionally let the thumb come over the top of the neck for certain open chords. Hope this helps!
I have a question if I may, where is the arm supposed to be really....beside ur body or what? I know this is probably a stupid question. That's why this is such a perfect video for me. I am having alotta pain.
It's not a stupid question at all. Unfortunately, there is no one, easy answer. It is always dependent on the physical parameters of the instrument and the player.
I usually start with my arms hanging naturally by my side and then lift the fretting arm at the elbow until it meets the neck (as demonstrated). Depending on the length of your arm (forearm especially) you hand could end up in a different neck position than someone else. For you, this may place your hand at the 7th fret but it might be the 5th fret for anyone else.
This is where you need to adjust the position of the to comfortably reach the needed frets. The secret is to remember that you can use the whole arm (up to the shoulder) to make that adjustment.
So you might rotate your shoulder slightly out to bring the and closer to the neck, then extend the arm forward slightly so that you can get your hand around the neck. Your elbow may hang out away from your body but that doesn't matter as long as there is no pain and the notes sound good.
Would it be helpful if I did a video on these variations?
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Thank u so very much for taking the time to explain this to me in detail. I really appreciate ya!!!! And yes that would be great. That is if u can. Like I said, I completely understand how busy life can get. Thanks again...so much. The detail in itself will help alot.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Also, I have watched ur video "Hand hurt playing guitar?" about a dozen times. It's been a huge help!!!! HUGE! THANK U:)
@@mrs.hollerbredkennels-jana7891 Thank you. It's my pleasure. You can look for that video next week.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar THANK U SO MUCH!!!!
You're so underrated it makes me sad...
Thanks! I'm sorry it makes you sad, but I'm glad you find the information helpful. :)
Hi Kevin, i found the video super helpful, however i still have an issue which i was wondering if you were familiar with ? my fingers seem to have a very hard time going down on the fret board in the correct place (they bunch up close together ) , which is therefore causing my fingers to hold down hard on the strings and my hand tenses up. in short what do i need to do to get my fingers to spread out on the fret board with ease in the correct frets ? thank you very much in advance. Mayer
Hey Mayer. I do have a couple of exercises that can help you with that. You can incorporate them into your warm-up. It's probably a little complicated to describe in a YT comment so look for a video on it in the next two weeks (I've got another one in process for next week). I post every Wednesday at 3pm. In the meantime, can you let me know what types of songs/exercises you're currently working on? It will help me make the video a little more useful to you.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar That is great to hear! and really appreciate the help, will definitely look out for those videos you mentioned .So honestly i am not working on anything in particular, i have picked up the guitar a week go after having not played in 11 years, so just doing everything i can to relearn with all the CORRECT habits. I want to keep away from old songs i used to play (Comfort zone) until i get the fingers exercises down pat the CORRECT way using all the fingers etc. would you say that is advisable or no?
Thank you again for your time and expertise.
@@mayerbeno7338 Gotcha. I wouldn't avoid old songs though. For those students who are returning to the guitar after a hiatus, I usually suggest spending most of the time on old material.
Remember, most people play an instrument because it's fun. What can be more fun than playing stuff you know you can play?
This way, you treat it like starting a running routine. I've often heard it recommended to run for 30 seconds walk for a minute (or two). As you build more stamina, you add more running time and take away some walking time. Does that make sense?
With guitar, you start with what you know and add one, small new thing. Then you can gradually shift the balance between new and old material.
Hope that helps.
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Yes! that definitely makes sense, i appreciate the advice.
When i lower my thumb my wrist bends a lot and trying to keep it straight hurts a massive amount
I went back and tested. If I'm sitting up straight it hurts massively
If I'm hunched over it's slightly uncomfortable trying to use my pinky correctly
Sorry for thrid reply.
If I'm sitting up straight i can't play claw style with my pinky or it hurts my back and wrist. I have to lay it flat muting all lower strings. I also can't stretch my fingers as far and most can't reach the fret lines.
However if I'm hunched my shoulders hurt in a few minutes and my hand itself hurts.
@@booksmeow1633 What kind of guitar are you playing? And have you seen my video specifically on sitting with the guitar? That might clear up some of the issues you're describing.
I can't seem to keep the pad of my thumb on the back of the neck, it's mainly the bony part of my thumb that presses against the neck but even then, I'd have to bend my wrist quite a bit to reach the 6th string. The most comfortable position I've adapted so far is to have my thumb way above the neck (not hanging over), which has allowed me to keep my wrist straight and fret comfortably, is that normal for someone with a little above average hand size?
It's not uncommon and, aside from the chords you're having trouble playing, it's not bad but it's not ideal. If you watch the video again from around 5:04, I demonstrate how to position the hand. What is not clear in the video, and I just noticed this now, is HOW to move the thumb into proper postion. After I demonstrate dropping the hand so that the pinky touches the 6th string, I recommend dropping the thumb behind the neck so the pad of the thumb pushes against the neck. If you drop the thumb straight down it will force you to bend the wrist. Is that what you're experiencing? I'm actually rotating the thumb toward the headstock (like a windshield wiper) in order to achieve the right postion, which is not clear on the video. Hopefully that clears up the confusion. If not let me know and I'll do what I can to help you out, maybe even put it into a new video. Good luck!
@@KevinOShaughnessyGuitar Thank you for the clarification! I think I’ve found the right position when the pads are touching the back of the neck. My wrist is not completely straight but it doesn’t curve to the point where it gets super tensed and painful.
@@kujaa1831 Awesome! And remember, none of this is absolute. Make adjustments to everything until it feels good for you. If your wrist has a little bend jbut doesn't hurt, that's totally cool. There is almost always a mechanical solution for almost every guitar plyaing issue and those solutions will be different for each player. Good work and keep rockin'!
Apparently my index finger is half an inch too short to follow your instructions...totally impossible to reach the low E string
9:13 am I getting this wrong? Isn’t your wrist is kinda bent here? And shouldn’t the wrist be as straight as possible?
Hey MIchael. No, you're not wrong. My wrist is a little bent at that time. What I think I neglected to mention in the video is that we're striving for a straight wrist MOST of the time. As your technique and your facility on the instrument develop, you'll likely find times where you need to fudge this guide a little. Many times when doing bends I have to put my thumb over the neck to get the right leverage. It's there for a second and then back to recommended orientation. In my observation, if you can keep your wrist straight 80% of the time (this number is a total guess by the way) you should be fine. Just remember that the wrist should almost never be rigid. Try to keep it as relaxed as you can, and use only the muscles you need.
Hope that clears up any confusion.
Kevin O'Shaughnessy damn man, so quick, thanks for the response. Ye, I saw a similar answer of yours in the comments. It’s just, that to keep wrist straight at bar chords i am losing the space between the neck and the palm. Or it extremely tense. Or I can’t reach the low E. I am in the process of reworking my technique due to overplaying with bad wrist form and atm it’s extremely annoying, but I guess it’s part of the journey. p.s. I think thumb over neck has its time and place.
@@MGibsonJames I do what I can. :) And it's OK to lose space between the neck and the palm playing barre chords, especially if it helps your hand, wrist, whatever, relax. I generally recommend having that space to aoivd grabbing the neck like a baseball bat, and to give the fingers enough space to move quickly. But to play a barre chord it may be necessary to get closer to that bat-style grip. There's a certain give and take with all of this stuff. Let me know if you have any other questions.
How do I get control of my fretting mind?😧😲😳
YEAHHHHH
Iam 70yrs old is it easier for me to learn on a electric guitar rather than a acoustic
The setup of the guitar is a little more important than whether it's acoustic or electric. What do your favorite artists play? If they're largely acoustic players, then get an acoustic. If not, then get an electric. After that, take it to a tech who can set it up with strings that are appropriate for the kind of music you want to learn to play, and make the action as low as the instrument will bare. The combination of the two characteristics should make the process more enjoyable.
I hope that's helpful.
Good luck!
But your wrist bends🤔
You're right. It does appear a little bent, especially from that angle. One thing I forgot to mention is that while there are tendencies that show up often, few things are absolute. My wrist may look a little bent in the video but I felt no pain during the demonstration. A gentle curve to the wrist certainly is not a problem. And there are times when my hand changes orientations rather drastically when I play. The key is to discover what works for you to get the lick out correctly and with no pain.
Hope that helps.
Kevin O'Shaughnessy Thank you for the clarification 😄. So it means we can bend our wrist slighty if it doesn’t hurt.
@@gibraanbutt6062 Happy to help! Yes, "slightly" is the key here. I would also add that it's a matter of time as well. For example, if 80% of the time that you play your wrist is basically neutral, then having to flex or extend it the other 20% of the time to get specific licks should be no problem. It's when your wrist is in those flexed or extended periods most of the time that you can develop some serious problems.
Kevin O'Shaughnessy Thank you again 😄. Maybe you can make a video on “how to hold a pick for fast picking on an acoustic guitar”in the future. I’ve Subbed BTW 👍🏻😄
Doesn't work for my short fingers; playing simple chords is impossible, and I keep hitting the E string with the flesh of my hand. Terrible advice.