www.patreon.com/TimmyTalks - Yes! After a year of making Old School Magic content on UA-cam, I feel that the time is right to launch my very own Patreon page! It would be great if you can take a moment to visit the site, let me know what you think and consider becoming a patron of the show 🤟
Juzam was a staple in mono black for like six months in 95. It was completely disregarded in 1994. There was a single day where Juzam went up from $5 to $50 for mono black but this was after Fallen Empires came out and you could play it with Hymn To Tourach and pump knights. Then after a couple months after Ice Age came in, Necropotence replaced Juzam going forward into 96-97. In the era where people played Walls, land regenerating creatures, Paralyze, Will O The Wisp and such, Juzam was seen as a liability and instead people played with Juggernaut.
I love how you put the Factory at #1. This is at the very top of my Mt. Rushmore of all-time magic cards. I have handed out so many beatdowns with this card. At first glance I thought the card sucked. 😆 Then I started playing it because my friend who loves playing counter magic kept beating me. I thought to myself that land can't be countered. Sure enough, I then put Mishra's Factory in a Oath of Druids deck and dropped it on my first turn against him. The look on his face was priceless as that smug look on his face got wiped clean as I handed down a vicious beating. He told me after the game that he knew he was in trouble as soon as he saw me play it. The card was soooo ahead of its time. It took WOTC another five years before they printed another manland as seen in Urza's Legacy at that time. Treetop Village being the best in that cycle. I cannot express how much the Factory has meant to my mtg deck building skills. I now play tempered steel with the Factory now that they finally printed tempered steel with a retro frame. Mishra's Factory = Unbelievable card.
this was a great video. id love to see your take on a list of underplayed creatures with good flavor that are still playable like Earth Elemental , Stone Giant, Wormwood Treefolk, Argothian Pixy. Granite Gargoyles, Killer Bees, Royal Assassin, Poltergeist to kill moxes. i watch all your content.
Fantastic video and list. Yeah I thought Serendib was going to be #1 as well and I didn't even know about Jared's list. I of course agree with your reasons for the factory in the top spot. Don't remember hearing you mention how it usually is immune to opponents sorceries, and immune to The Abyss. Did you mention that? I would have put Ernham above Juzam for sure. Also one of the other great combos with Triskelion is Tawnos Coffin
Hi Edwin, thank you for your feedback 👍 Good points about the factory. It's so annoying that it's hard to kill with sorcery spells, I remember playing Shatterstorm main board in one of my decks and constantly getting in trouble because I couldn't take care of the Mishras. I didn't mention them.
@@deeterful , yes everybody runs 4 factories and 3-5 land destruction in the deck...the diversity is significantly reduced with all these obligatory cards.
@@TimmytheSorcerer , I went 1-3 so while a lot of fun. Got mana flooded against two mono black decks. Lost my last match to a green weenie deck because I neglected to put Earthquake in.
Love this content and fully agree with your #1, it's not even close. You can debate forever about the rest of the list but most creatures I would list are up there. I think I would like to know more about Magic Reborn, would that be possible?
Almost no one played Ernham Djinn in 94. However people played it in 95 and it exploded in 96 as it was a great counter meta to mono-black Necro (green white vs. mono black). It getting reprinted in Chronicles was a huge deal.
Great list! It takes me back to the days when magic was FUN, before it became all about netdecking and spoilers. Newer players will never understand why a card like Killer Bees, Ball Lightning, or Woolly Spider was great even if it wasn't the most efficient. The thrill of discovering something new every time you played is what made the game MAGICAL. Today's game is still great, but for different reasons.
Couldn't agree more Shaun. I guess that's why I 93/94 so much. The card pool is limited and this means that you keep looking at what you have and how you can make more efficient use of the cards in this case the creatures.
@@TimmytheSorcerer BTW, I also like how you bluffed us with the screen cap. I was really expecting that you would put Shivan Dragon #1 in order to keep it truly old school, but your pick was clever and correct. It makes me wonder if Wizards understood how powerful the Factory was when they printed it.
These are by far my favorite videos you have on your channel. Just like I enjoy the deck tech at the beginning of every match because the amount of information you give really really helps us people, or me anyways who are still learning and gives great ideas for future decks. Best channel on UA-cam 🤘
Love the Top# discussion, Timmy! Of course, all lists are always situational and personal and it's not the place to argue, especially about the standings, but still but a nice occasion to discuss the topic. As for Mishra's, they sometimes even feel like cheating because they break so many fundamental rules of Old School balance, I even remember a league where they had a house rule for tapped attackers not dealing damage because of how powerful Factories are.
Hi Phil! How's life? That's why I love T10 lists, even after 25 years there is still no permanent top 10. In my opinion, it shows what a complex and great strategy game Magic the Gathering is 👍
Love your videos. I think Ball Lightning, Royal Assassin, Preacher, Old Man of the Sea, Juggernaut and Atog are all really good too, even if they see less play in the current modern old school meta. Whirling Dervish and Angus Mackenzie are both incredibly fun cards too that don't get enough love. And, of course, Birds of Paradise, which was voted Magic's best creature of all time (including modern cards) a few years back.
Thanks Distin, I also love those creatures. Atog is very popular again btw and also preacher is a fav with the spice builders :)) Angus is a rare site and I agree, it’s a super useful card. I actually should brew a deck around it 🙌
@@TimmytheSorcerer Angus Turbofog with Millstone, Wrath, Braingeyser, Ancestral, Holy Day, Fog, and a ton of walls! Of course you'll also want a full counterspell suite to stop the ol' Fireball.
ive been looking for a channel like yours for the longest time. thank you for showing love to the best era of the best card game! it just makes me wanna win the lottery so i can buy playsets and invite my buddies over to my new mansions game room for funyons, mountain dew, d&d and old school magic lol
You don't need a lot of money to play Old School. Budget decks can be extremely competitive, and there's so many possibilities when it comes to deck building. It really is a wonder how diverse and balanced the original game was/is. So get a couple of decks built, and have your friends over. Funyuns and Mountain Dew are still cheap too. 😉
@@grovelinggoblin2683 thats true. to be honest, being a collector since 1994, i have a majority of the high end cards, but singelton copies only. trading redundant moats for bazaars and the like over the years. maybe i will try it out, after all i do have playsets of libraries, hippies, rituals, counterspells, bolts, and factories etc. i will however need to bite the bullet and buy three more copies of my all time favorite card. after all, whats a mono black deck without the awesome art of the mighty juzam djinn!
The pleasure in your voice when you describe how you can shoot birds, elves and other 1/1s with the trike is so evil (though, appropriate for a Timmy). Great video!
@@TimmytheSorcerer what you said about it being able to kill itself was very useful in oath of druids decks too, circa 1999/2000 if memory serves. All in all, it's a very versatile creature, even more so in old school where creatures tend to be weak.
Yup agreed Mithras factory #1 old school creature I never realized it’s power when I was young but some years back I finally saw someone playing it to its potential and was blown away
I think one of the hidden advantages of Mishra's Factory is that it's both a land and a creature/wincon for deck construction. I can replace any 4 basics with 4 factories for little disadvantage and know I've added 4 more creatures at no cost to my mana base. Of course, it helps that it's a top threat in the format, but that makes it even better.
Once again a great video! Zephyr Falcon (mentioned before), Bartel Runeaxe and Rabid Wombat can also attack without being tapped. Mishra's Factory is indeed one of the best and most versatile "creatures" being played in the majority of Old School decks. A recent Flippin' Orbs podcast discussed the potential restriction of the card in the Swedish format next year. We'll see what happens...
True, I also listen to that podcast frequently 👍 Of course, the Falcon, Bartel and Rabid, I guess vigilance is not as special as it seems in os. Do you think Serra was listed too high?
@@Skjeggspir I'm the happy owner of a playset of Mishra's Factories, but I wouldn't shed a tear if they restricted it, it's become an omnipresent no-brainer. I'm actually happy the guys behind the Swedish format have the guts to address this card. In a format with a fixed cardpool, restrictions are one way of keeping things fresh and interesting.
@@TimmytheSorcerer Well, couting only 5 creatures and 3 colours (white, green and blue, not counting colourless as a colour) with vigilance, still makes it pretty rare in OS. I wouldn't consider Rabid Wombat, Bartel Runeaxe or Yotian Soldier tournament material. The Zephyr Falcon can make a nice replacement for the formidable Flying Men (to outsmart douchebags playing City in a Bottle :) ). Was Serra Angel listed too high? Now that's a complicated question. Looking at white alone the flying non-wall competition is not so great: Mesa Pegaus, Osai Vultures. Only Thunder Spirit has nice stats, but lacks the beef to keep up with Erhnams and stuff. I think Serra Angel is definitely a nice creature, but in how many decks is Serra Angel crucial? Brian Weissman's The Deck from 1996 plays Serra Angels, but later I've seen him play with Shivan Dragon and even creatureless (well, except for, you guessed it: Mishra's Factory). For mid-range decks that are serious about including white it's probably one of the best creatures. An interesting question would be: what are the next best 10 creatures in Old School (numbers 11 to 20)? Jared's list offers some insights, but it becomes clear that creature performance becomes contextual: Atog won't fit every deck, neither will Mahamoti Djinn. So is the "competitive creature" cardpool really that limited? Luckily, MtG has some ways to make the "lesser borthers" more awesome: creature enchantments! Some cards that are being played (not talking about Paralyze and the like) are cards like Unstable Mutation and Spirit Link. Personally, I love cards like Instill Energy (Prodigal Sorceror, Royal Assassin), Unholy Strength (Black Knight) and Anti-Magic Aura (Ali from Cairo). Unfortunately, creature removal has become a staple part of many decks which makes it risky to run creature enchantments as you risk losing 2 cards to 1. In later sets Wizards got it right with cards like Rancor, which returns to your hand when it leaves play.
Turn 1 Hypnotic Specter is great as a bait for your opponent's swords. If he don't use his swords, he is gonna have a problem next turn and if he use it, he waste a good response against a more problematic creature like a Guardian Beast or a Juzam.
that sounds great, may i suggest lumping the moxes together, otherwise its basically a top 4 lol. skies the limit though. land, enchantments, combos. then maybe even some more obscure lists with cards that are cool in concept but see no play like word of command or natural selection. sorry to give you so much work haha
How do those Triskelion combos work? It gets the counters when cast, so copying or reanimating would just bring it in without the counters themselves. Right?
It’s an etb trigger so when you reanimate it, you get the counters again, when you copy them, you get the counters on the copy and what do you think happens when you take them in and out of tawnos’s coffin ;) 🎉
@TimmytheSorcerer ohhh, okay. I see now that it's just the old school wording being different. On the old print, it says when cast. I've been enjoying the channel and seeing the old style cards again though. I first played back in Portal 2... the art just hits different for me. Are people who play this format generally accepting of proxies for the very expensive old prints?
i'm probably gonna sound like an idiot, but when you say mishra's can pump itself do you mean 2 mishra's being out in play and one pumps the other? or one single mishra in play can pump itself to be a 3/3? because now i'm starting to think that there is a trick in this card that i never noticed XD
@@onemancannon do you mind explaining how this works? i'm assuming you do this after blockers are declared right? and tapping it like an interrupt? and than going on to the damage step, and by that point the mishra is a 3/3?
@@XchucksteakX You got it. Declare blocks, then before moving to damage being dealt, you can activate it's ability as an instant/interrupt, turning it into a 3/3. Even though it is now tapped, it is still considered blocking the creature.
For what it's worth, welcome to old school. That special place where no one is an "idiot", and where winning is just as important as good company and a mediocre drink selection 😀
I'm sure it is. I didn't play any competitive magic in 95 (the year I started). Kitchen table is sill my favorite, although it's now the pub's tables instead of the kitchen. I remember those early days in the Magic Wombat (local game store) and creatures like Royal Assassin, Veteran Bodyguard (get some castles out and that thing was unbeatable!) and Gaea's Liege rained supreme!
@@TimmytheSorcerer yup, it's a bit like EDH/Commander nowadays...I have a good Commander deck although I don't take Commander play seriously...I just like to build/pimp out the deck, but it's not even playable against the cEDH decks.
Ravenous Giant - the Red Juzam in Modern Horizons sees no play at all. Weird thought when Juzam was considered such a beast. Juzam’s art wins, hands down, though. Zephyr Falcon from Legends has vigilance too. I used to play UW skies with 4 of each (Angel and Falcon) and 4 Yotians on the ground back in the day. Enjoyed the video 👍
Sounds like a vigilance power house! Good point about Ravenous Giant, I guess creatures are so much more powerful these days and they have so many abilities as well! In 93/94, Juzam sees some play in Deadguy Ale and definitely in mono black.
I can see Mishras factory not being able to pump itself AND block, but I think if it pumps itself to survive Tim or Trisk pings it's can. What do y'all think?
@@anthonyhansel9175 turn one draw to 8 play swamp, ritual, hippy. 5 cards in hand, turn 2 draw to 6 play swamp, jet, hippy.3 cards turn 3 draw to 4 play swamp hippy end turn 3 with 2 cards. Fixed it for you ☺️
@@hamsandwich152 The main point is that, turn one, you have 6 power in the air and forcing three random discards every turn. Opponent may aswell scoop at that point.
Serra Angel was at first a staple of UW permission, Stasis, Armageddon decks, etc. But by the time of the 2nd US Nationals, Serra Angel got phased out in favor of Mahamoti Djinn.
@@TimmytheSorcerer First Deck UW, splash black discard deck "The Deck" - Land: 4x Underground Sea, 4x Tundra, 4x Scrubland, 5 Island, Mox Sapphire, 3x Plains, Mox Pearl, Mox Jet, Black Lotus, Sol Ring (25) Demonic Tutor, Mind Twist (2) 1x Chaos Orb, 1x Ivory Tower, 3x Disrupting Scepter, 3x Jayemdae Tome (8) 4x Wrath Of God, 4x Swords To Plowshares, 2x Serra Angel, 3x Disenchant (14) 1x Ancestral Recall, 1x Time Walk, 1x Copy Artifact, 4x Mana Drain (since no mana burn), 4x Power Sink (best spell counter in 94) (11) The point of the deck is to let the guy run out of cards in hand and be topdecking while you're holding two spell counters, a Swords and a Wrath.
Back in the day, there was a list in a magazine, I think Hypnotic Spectre was #1, was wondering where it was on the list. #3 sounds right, it can be bolt fodder, but can just run away with games.
To me as a young lad I acquired a Shivan dragon and was completely hype it was my prized possession. I remember seeing Black lotus's for a few hundred bucks in the glass cases. If I only knew just how valuable the power would become I would of cut all the grass I could and allowances and invested in my future lol. I had a Lord of the Pitt and I had my dragon. My green bigun was a force of nature. I had one Colossus and of course all kinds of crummy creatures lol. Main decking grey ogres😂😂😂
I was exactly the same! I remember trading away my duals for mahamoti djinns and doppelgangers 😂 The only thing I did well was collect a full set of antiqueties 👍 Do you still have that Dragon and Lord?
Savannah Lions in 1994 was a $7 to $10 rare in a Revised booster. It was played 4x in mono white weenie (Crusade, Army Of Allah, Jihad, etc.)...best card in that deck. Later in 97-ish, in Type 1, it was tier 1 in the zoo deck.
@@TimmytheSorcerer U/W control with Savannah Lions? Super jank. I think when the meta has no tier 1-3 decks, things like Savannah Lions in UW and Mishra's Factory looking like a great card will pass, lol. I wish I could play with you guys, even using proxy decks. I could show just how insane things can get, especially with creatureless decks that topped all of 1994.
@Rorschachqp the meta has changed drastically and you should def play an os tournament and see how it’s warped. Lions allows you to play it out and keep counter magic etc open. You keep attacking for 2 forcing your opponent to do something and probably run into a counter spell or do nothing and keep taking dmg.
@@TimmytheSorcerer Yeah and that’s the thing, if the other decks were tuned correctly, they can’t attack through Kismet/Stasis, Time Walk+Fork, Black Knight, Moat+The Abyss, White Knight, Kird Ape+Taiga and many other things. The way Lions wins is to get it out turn 1 with other weenies turn 2 and wreck someone with Crusade/s. Mono white is a turn 3 kill if the other person isn’t running Ivory Tower or Earthquake. And I’m not talking about Mono white with jank Thunder Spirit. All the creatures should be 1 or 2 mana, the 2 mana creatures should have some sort of protection and be backed by global pump and a random Armageddon.
It’s def a good card and a must play in most aggro mono white strategies, but outside those decks you don’t see it often. In what deck do you play your Spirits?
Only just discovered your other top 10's, nicely done! I only disagree with your number 1 because you chose a land and not a creature ;) For my money Serendib Efreet is number one followed closely by Erhnam Djinn, which I think is even better than Juzam Djinn because it can be played in the most decks, because you have to pay only one colored mana to cast it. Su-Chi is just unfair when you're not playing with manaburn (and old school should ALWAYS be played with manaburn :) )
@@TimmytheSorcerer Smart! Just looked up the different formats and I guess Atlantic would be my favourite. A definite Yes on the manaburn and I've always had a soft spot for Fallen Empires.
Add moxen to cast it early, start copying them with copy artifact, get them back from the yard with animate or reconstruction.. super though to deal with 😩
Racing out in the beginning with black is so demoralizing.... swamp, mox.... x2 ritual, sol ring... juz and hippie.... watch ur opponent die inside...!
@@TimmytheSorcerer It's basically unplayable. When you take Storm Seeker + Fork on turn 4 for 20 damage to the face, you're not trying to block on the ground to regenerate. When you face 6 damage on upkeep from Black Vise, Sedge Troll won't help you.
@@TimmytheSorcerer My Suicide Blue deck has both! :p I like to have creatures of every casting cost to curve out my mana. Flying men=1, Zephyr=2, Serendib Efreet=3, and Serendib Djinn=4
Serendib Djinn is such a cool card! I used to play with three of them in my Fling deck bacnk in the nineties. Do you just sac islands to it and take the 3 (and hit your opponent for 5) or is there a secret game plan..?
Timmy the Sorcerer By the time I get a Djinn out I hopefully have either a few deserts or Mishra’s Factories to sac. But if not, you’re still dealing 5 damage and taking 3, so you’re still outpacing the opponent. I also run playsets of Psionic Blast and Mind Bomb, all very risky plays but powerful!
Su-Chi was a joke card in 94, no one wanted it to die on the other player's turn and lose 20% of their life due to mana burn...and they really didn't want to lose 8 life if they had two in play. You imagine the other player Earthquake's for 4 or more, you lose like 12 or more life...very bad.
I love to use my Su-Chies in combination with a Tome or even better cast an unexpected inferno 🔥🔥🔥🔥 It's a great value card if you have use for the 4 mana you get.
Hi David, what's your main reason for wanting to see it get restricted? What weapons do you currently use against Factories and have you considered that a rule change might help as well?
@@TimmytheSorcerer , when almost everybody use them(including me), almost everybody maindecks answers too them too, and then the whole meta has warped around them, reducing the diversity. Poor and fair guys like the Black Knight, Erg Raiders and Elvish Archers will get a new chance to shine again if the factories get restricted.
I’m really looking into getting into old skool. Thanks for the content. Would love to have you on my channel at one stage in the future if you’re free. MTG Control
2 and 3 are ok. #1 shouldn't even belong in top 10. If I see Factory turn 1, I don't Strip Mine the Factory, I strip their colored land that comes next turn!
Factory is amazing in control shells and has seen super results. Almost all top finishers run a 4 off (remember, most of us play formats with only 1 strip). I do agree, that some decks should play 2/3 instead the full 4 and some shouldn't play any at all.
@@TimmytheSorcerer In 1994, no tier 1 or tier 2 decks run any copies Factory. Factory is for games lasting like 10 turns. In tier 1 1994, you will be guaranteed to lose in 4-5 turns unless you play permission ("control" was dubbed later) and you are going for a lock. UW was there to force a long term lock and you needed spell counters to protect your important permanents or as last resort save your life spells. Factory doesn't lock, combo and it doesn't kill fast.
Mishra's Factory is #1 by a wide margin. Too wide of a margin. I hate to interject anything that resembles negativity into a well done and fun video, but this card needs to be banned. It's a 4 of in almost every deck for all the competitive decks. At the very least it needs to be restricted with the pump rule taken away. Don't we miss seeing the knights, kird apes, elvish archers, pendlehaven creatures, and any other ground creature with 2 power and less than 4 toughness? This card literally made me quit EC/ATL. In 1994 this card didn't deal damage, did it really need to be made stronger? Get rid of "Mishra's Moat".
The card is def super strong. Most decks have a lot of answers against artifacts and a lot of people play with 4 answers against lands (chaos orb, strip and 2 others). It's so risky to animate a factory, because you lose a land and a creature at the same time.
www.patreon.com/TimmyTalks - Yes! After a year of making Old School Magic content on UA-cam, I feel that the time is right to launch my very own Patreon page! It would be great if you can take a moment to visit the site, let me know what you think and consider becoming a patron of the show 🤟
Juzam was a staple in mono black for like six months in 95. It was completely disregarded in 1994. There was a single day where Juzam went up from $5 to $50 for mono black but this was after Fallen Empires came out and you could play it with Hymn To Tourach and pump knights. Then after a couple months after Ice Age came in, Necropotence replaced Juzam going forward into 96-97. In the era where people played Walls, land regenerating creatures, Paralyze, Will O The Wisp and such, Juzam was seen as a liability and instead people played with Juggernaut.
I love how you put the Factory at #1. This is at the very top of my Mt. Rushmore of all-time magic cards. I have handed out so many beatdowns with this card. At first glance I thought the card sucked. 😆 Then I started playing it because my friend who loves playing counter magic kept beating me. I thought to myself that land can't be countered. Sure enough, I then put Mishra's Factory in a Oath of Druids deck and dropped it on my first turn against him. The look on his face was priceless as that smug look on his face got wiped clean as I handed down a vicious beating. He told me after the game that he knew he was in trouble as soon as he saw me play it. The card was soooo ahead of its time. It took WOTC another five years before they printed another manland as seen in Urza's Legacy at that time. Treetop Village being the best in that cycle. I cannot express how much the Factory has meant to my mtg deck building skills. I now play tempered steel with the Factory now that they finally printed tempered steel with a retro frame. Mishra's Factory = Unbelievable card.
this was a great video. id love to see your take on a list of underplayed creatures with good flavor that are still playable like Earth Elemental , Stone Giant, Wormwood Treefolk, Argothian Pixy. Granite Gargoyles, Killer Bees, Royal Assassin, Poltergeist to kill moxes. i watch all your content.
Fantastic video and list. Yeah I thought Serendib was going to be #1 as well and I didn't even know about Jared's list.
I of course agree with your reasons for the factory in the top spot. Don't remember hearing you mention how it usually is immune to opponents sorceries, and immune to The Abyss. Did you mention that?
I would have put Ernham above Juzam for sure.
Also one of the other great combos with Triskelion is Tawnos Coffin
Hi Edwin, thank you for your feedback 👍 Good points about the factory. It's so annoying that it's hard to kill with sorcery spells, I remember playing Shatterstorm main board in one of my decks and constantly getting in trouble because I couldn't take care of the Mishras. I didn't mention them.
Mishra’s Factory should be restricted in old school 93/94.
@@Skjeggspir , just run four Strip Mines! LOL
@@deeterful , yes everybody runs 4 factories and 3-5 land destruction in the deck...the diversity is significantly reduced with all these obligatory cards.
Great list!
Just finished an event, was running Bartel Runeaxe. When he hit the battlefield he won me games.
That most've been one cool deck!
@@TimmytheSorcerer , I went 1-3 so while a lot of fun. Got mana flooded against two mono black decks. Lost my last match to a green weenie deck because I neglected to put Earthquake in.
Love this content and fully agree with your #1, it's not even close. You can debate forever about the rest of the list but most creatures I would list are up there.
I think I would like to know more about Magic Reborn, would that be possible?
Almost no one played Ernham Djinn in 94. However people played it in 95 and it exploded in 96 as it was a great counter meta to mono-black Necro (green white vs. mono black). It getting reprinted in Chronicles was a huge deal.
Great list! It takes me back to the days when magic was FUN, before it became all about netdecking and spoilers. Newer players will never understand why a card like Killer Bees, Ball Lightning, or Woolly Spider was great even if it wasn't the most efficient. The thrill of discovering something new every time you played is what made the game MAGICAL. Today's game is still great, but for different reasons.
Couldn't agree more Shaun. I guess that's why I 93/94 so much. The card pool is limited and this means that you keep looking at what you have and how you can make more efficient use of the cards in this case the creatures.
@@TimmytheSorcerer BTW, I also like how you bluffed us with the screen cap. I was really expecting that you would put Shivan Dragon #1 in order to keep it truly old school, but your pick was clever and correct. It makes me wonder if Wizards understood how powerful the Factory was when they printed it.
These are by far my favorite videos you have on your channel. Just like I enjoy the deck tech at the beginning of every match because the amount of information you give really really helps us people, or me anyways who are still learning and gives great ideas for future decks. Best channel on UA-cam 🤘
Love the Top# discussion, Timmy! Of course, all lists are always situational and personal and it's not the place to argue, especially about the standings, but still but a nice occasion to discuss the topic. As for Mishra's, they sometimes even feel like cheating because they break so many fundamental rules of Old School balance, I even remember a league where they had a house rule for tapped attackers not dealing damage because of how powerful Factories are.
Hi Phil! How's life?
That's why I love T10 lists, even after 25 years there is still no permanent top 10. In my opinion, it shows what a complex and great strategy game Magic the Gathering is 👍
Great to see some different content on the channel.
Fun to watch !
Great to hear, thinking about making more similar content in the future.
Love your videos. I think Ball Lightning, Royal Assassin, Preacher, Old Man of the Sea, Juggernaut and Atog are all really good too, even if they see less play in the current modern old school meta. Whirling Dervish and Angus Mackenzie are both incredibly fun cards too that don't get enough love. And, of course, Birds of Paradise, which was voted Magic's best creature of all time (including modern cards) a few years back.
Thanks Distin, I also love those creatures. Atog is very popular again btw and also preacher is a fav with the spice builders :)) Angus is a rare site and I agree, it’s a super useful card. I actually should brew a deck around it 🙌
@@TimmytheSorcerer Angus Turbofog with Millstone, Wrath, Braingeyser, Ancestral, Holy Day, Fog, and a ton of walls! Of course you'll also want a full counterspell suite to stop the ol' Fireball.
Jared is a great guy. Good to have him in the New England scene 😎
ive been looking for a channel like yours for the longest time. thank you for showing love to the best era of the best card game! it just makes me wanna win the lottery so i can buy playsets and invite my buddies over to my new mansions game room for funyons, mountain dew, d&d and old school magic lol
Hahaha, sounds like a great plan! Can you put me on the guest list? 🙋
if i win the lottery ill fly you out myself lol
You don't need a lot of money to play Old School. Budget decks can be extremely competitive, and there's so many possibilities when it comes to deck building. It really is a wonder how diverse and balanced the original game was/is. So get a couple of decks built, and have your friends over. Funyuns and Mountain Dew are still cheap too. 😉
@@grovelinggoblin2683 thats true. to be honest, being a collector since 1994, i have a majority of the high end cards, but singelton copies only. trading redundant moats for bazaars and the like over the years. maybe i will try it out, after all i do have playsets of libraries, hippies, rituals, counterspells, bolts, and factories etc.
i will however need to bite the bullet and buy three more copies of my all time favorite card. after all, whats a mono black deck without the awesome art of the mighty juzam djinn!
You could always build an old school cube. It would be sick to draft it.
The pleasure in your voice when you describe how you can shoot birds, elves and other 1/1s with the trike is so evil (though, appropriate for a Timmy). Great video!
Thanks Ricardo 🙌 Trike is one of those cards that doesn’t show its real power until you play with it.
@@TimmytheSorcerer what you said about it being able to kill itself was very useful in oath of druids decks too, circa 1999/2000 if memory serves. All in all, it's a very versatile creature, even more so in old school where creatures tend to be weak.
Guess what other creature has the same ability as the only creature in Alpha 🙌
Nice video. I think you forgot that Zephyr Falcon does not tap when attacking either :) I would have Birds and Kird Ape on my list of Top 10.
Thanks for your feedback Charles. You're right, totally forgot about the beautiful Falcon and I forgot about Bartel Runeaxe (such a bad ass card!).
@@TimmytheSorcerer Yotian Soldier from Antiquities also doesn't tap when attacking. I used to play with it, although it's not a very good card.
Yup agreed
Mithras factory #1 old school creature
I never realized it’s power when I was young but some years back I finally saw someone playing it to its potential and was blown away
Me too, I was just focused on the big boys, but now the game has changed so much.
I think one of the hidden advantages of Mishra's Factory is that it's both a land and a creature/wincon for deck construction. I can replace any 4 basics with 4 factories for little disadvantage and know I've added 4 more creatures at no cost to my mana base. Of course, it helps that it's a top threat in the format, but that makes it even better.
Once again a great video! Zephyr Falcon (mentioned before), Bartel Runeaxe and Rabid Wombat can also attack without being tapped.
Mishra's Factory is indeed one of the best and most versatile "creatures" being played in the majority of Old School decks. A recent Flippin' Orbs podcast discussed the potential restriction of the card in the Swedish format next year. We'll see what happens...
True, I also listen to that podcast frequently 👍 Of course, the Falcon, Bartel and Rabid, I guess vigilance is not as special as it seems in os. Do you think Serra was listed too high?
I would love it if the factory was restricted, today it really warps the whole meta around it...almost everybody plays 4 of it.
@@Skjeggspir I'm the happy owner of a playset of Mishra's Factories, but I wouldn't shed a tear if they restricted it, it's become an omnipresent no-brainer. I'm actually happy the guys behind the Swedish format have the guts to address this card. In a format with a fixed cardpool, restrictions are one way of keeping things fresh and interesting.
@@eelcotiggelman2974, agreed, it will make room for more diverse decks I think.
@@TimmytheSorcerer Well, couting only 5 creatures and 3 colours (white, green and blue, not counting colourless as a colour) with vigilance, still makes it pretty rare in OS. I wouldn't consider Rabid Wombat, Bartel Runeaxe or Yotian Soldier tournament material. The Zephyr Falcon can make a nice replacement for the formidable Flying Men (to outsmart douchebags playing City in a Bottle :) ).
Was Serra Angel listed too high? Now that's a complicated question. Looking at white alone the flying non-wall competition is not so great: Mesa Pegaus, Osai Vultures. Only Thunder Spirit has nice stats, but lacks the beef to keep up with Erhnams and stuff. I think Serra Angel is definitely a nice creature, but in how many decks is Serra Angel crucial? Brian Weissman's The Deck from 1996 plays Serra Angels, but later I've seen him play with Shivan Dragon and even creatureless (well, except for, you guessed it: Mishra's Factory). For mid-range decks that are serious about including white it's probably one of the best creatures.
An interesting question would be: what are the next best 10 creatures in Old School (numbers 11 to 20)? Jared's list offers some insights, but it becomes clear that creature performance becomes contextual: Atog won't fit every deck, neither will Mahamoti Djinn. So is the "competitive creature" cardpool really that limited?
Luckily, MtG has some ways to make the "lesser borthers" more awesome: creature enchantments! Some cards that are being played (not talking about Paralyze and the like) are cards like Unstable Mutation and Spirit Link. Personally, I love cards like Instill Energy (Prodigal Sorceror, Royal Assassin), Unholy Strength (Black Knight) and Anti-Magic Aura (Ali from Cairo). Unfortunately, creature removal has become a staple part of many decks which makes it risky to run creature enchantments as you risk losing 2 cards to 1. In later sets Wizards got it right with cards like Rancor, which returns to your hand when it leaves play.
Dude, you got me. I was sure Timmy would be number one...
👊
Turn 1 Hypnotic Specter is great as a bait for your opponent's swords. If he don't use his swords, he is gonna have a problem next turn and if he use it, he waste a good response against a more problematic creature like a Guardian Beast or a Juzam.
Good points 🤔, swopping two cards for a valuable swords can definitely be worth it in the long run.
Hard to see an hypnotic specter survive for more than one turn 😂 but agreed with your ranking list, expecially for serra and factory. Keep going !
btw, LOVE the top 10's. please make more!
Thanks Daniel, I think I will. What list would you like? Artifacts maybe?
that sounds great, may i suggest lumping the moxes together, otherwise its basically a top 4 lol.
skies the limit though. land, enchantments, combos. then maybe even some more obscure lists with cards that are cool in concept but see no play like word of command or natural selection.
sorry to give you so much work haha
Agreed! One of each card type would be great. Lands would be nice to see...Old School has so many excellent non-basics to choose from.
How do those Triskelion combos work? It gets the counters when cast, so copying or reanimating would just bring it in without the counters themselves. Right?
It’s an etb trigger so when you reanimate it, you get the counters again, when you copy them, you get the counters on the copy and what do you think happens when you take them in and out of tawnos’s coffin ;) 🎉
@TimmytheSorcerer ohhh, okay. I see now that it's just the old school wording being different. On the old print, it says when cast.
I've been enjoying the channel and seeing the old style cards again though. I first played back in Portal 2... the art just hits different for me. Are people who play this format generally accepting of proxies for the very expensive old prints?
Great list! I agree with your choices, though I might have included Atog or Kird Ape. Really surprised we didn't see Prodigal Sorceror. 😉
i'm probably gonna sound like an idiot, but when you say mishra's can pump itself do you mean 2 mishra's being out in play and one pumps the other? or one single mishra in play can pump itself to be a 3/3? because now i'm starting to think that there is a trick in this card that i never noticed XD
You can block as a 2/2 and pump itself to a 3/3 👍👍👍
@@onemancannon do you mind explaining how this works? i'm assuming you do this after blockers are declared right? and tapping it like an interrupt? and than going on to the damage step, and by that point the mishra is a 3/3?
@@XchucksteakX You got it. Declare blocks, then before moving to damage being dealt, you can activate it's ability as an instant/interrupt, turning it into a 3/3. Even though it is now tapped, it is still considered blocking the creature.
Hi Randy, not a stupid question at all and @onemancannon and @starnik pretty much explained it all 👍
For what it's worth, welcome to old school. That special place where no one is an "idiot", and where winning is just as important as good company and a mediocre drink selection 😀
I think overall this list shows the warping of how unlike the "94" format is compared to top tier constructed Magic was in actual 1994.
I'm sure it is. I didn't play any competitive magic in 95 (the year I started). Kitchen table is sill my favorite, although it's now the pub's tables instead of the kitchen. I remember those early days in the Magic Wombat (local game store) and creatures like Royal Assassin, Veteran Bodyguard (get some castles out and that thing was unbeatable!) and Gaea's Liege rained supreme!
@@TimmytheSorcerer yup, it's a bit like EDH/Commander nowadays...I have a good Commander deck although I don't take Commander play seriously...I just like to build/pimp out the deck, but it's not even playable against the cEDH decks.
Great list and insight on your decisions. Nice job
Hey, Timmy, so a year later, would you keep the list as is, or maybe some changes?
Interesting 🤔 I would first need to go through the list again, but I think number 1 wouldn’t change. What creature would you add/take out?
Ravenous Giant - the Red Juzam in Modern Horizons sees no play at all. Weird thought when Juzam was considered such a beast. Juzam’s art wins, hands down, though. Zephyr Falcon from Legends has vigilance too. I used to play UW skies with 4 of each (Angel and Falcon) and 4 Yotians on the ground back in the day. Enjoyed the video 👍
Sounds like a vigilance power house! Good point about Ravenous Giant, I guess creatures are so much more powerful these days and they have so many abilities as well! In 93/94, Juzam sees some play in Deadguy Ale and definitely in mono black.
That was a great video. Great list and thanks for the great content!
I remember shivan dragon and mahamoti djinn running around in my playgroup back in the 90s
🙌
I can see Mishras factory not being able to pump itself AND block, but I think if it pumps itself to survive Tim or Trisk pings it's can.
What do y'all think?
Nice list.
Next up are spells ?
Turn 1 swamp, dark ritual, hippy. Turn two swamp, mox jet hippy. Turn 3 swamp hippy....conceed
Turn 1 on the draw. Swamp, mox jet, lotus, 2x dark ritual, 3x hippy. Yes, you're out of cards. But you're still winning.
@@anthonyhansel9175 turn one draw to 8 play swamp, ritual, hippy. 5 cards in hand, turn 2 draw to 6 play swamp, jet, hippy.3 cards turn 3 draw to 4 play swamp hippy end turn 3 with 2 cards. Fixed it for you ☺️
@@hamsandwich152 The main point is that, turn one, you have 6 power in the air and forcing three random discards every turn. Opponent may aswell scoop at that point.
Serra Angel was at first a staple of UW permission, Stasis, Armageddon decks, etc. But by the time of the 2nd US Nationals, Serra Angel got phased out in favor of Mahamoti Djinn.
With the current OS card pool (leaving FE out,. modern rules and 1 strip) what would your UW deck look like?
@@TimmytheSorcerer First Deck UW, splash black discard deck "The Deck" -
Land: 4x Underground Sea, 4x Tundra, 4x Scrubland, 5 Island, Mox Sapphire, 3x Plains, Mox Pearl, Mox Jet, Black Lotus, Sol Ring (25)
Demonic Tutor, Mind Twist (2)
1x Chaos Orb, 1x Ivory Tower, 3x Disrupting Scepter, 3x Jayemdae Tome (8)
4x Wrath Of God, 4x Swords To Plowshares, 2x Serra Angel, 3x Disenchant (14)
1x Ancestral Recall, 1x Time Walk, 1x Copy Artifact, 4x Mana Drain (since no mana burn), 4x Power Sink (best spell counter in 94) (11)
The point of the deck is to let the guy run out of cards in hand and be topdecking while you're holding two spell counters, a Swords and a Wrath.
@@TimmytheSorcerer Second deck, BUW Millstone -
Land: 4x Underground Sea, 4x Tundra, 4x Scrubland, 4 Island, Mox Sapphire, 2x Plains, 1x Swamp, Mox Pearl, Mox Jet, Black Lotus, Sol Ring (24)
Demonic Tutor, 3x The Abyss (5)
1x Chaos Orb, 1x Ivory Tower, 3x Millstone (5)
3x Wrath Of God, 4x Swords To Plowshares, 4x Moat, 1x Balance 2x Disenchant (14)
1x Ancestral Recall, 1x Time Walk, 1x Copy Artifact, 3x Counterspell, 3x Mana Drain, 3x Power Sink (best spell counter in 94) (12)
Back in the day, there was a list in a magazine, I think Hypnotic Spectre was #1, was wondering where it was on the list. #3 sounds right, it can be bolt fodder, but can just run away with games.
My favourite thing to do against a Hippy is playing an Earthbind on it 😂
To me as a young lad I acquired a Shivan dragon and was completely hype it was my prized possession. I remember seeing Black lotus's for a few hundred bucks in the glass cases. If I only knew just how valuable the power would become I would of cut all the grass I could and allowances and invested in my future lol. I had a Lord of the Pitt and I had my dragon. My green bigun was a force of nature. I had one Colossus and of course all kinds of crummy creatures lol. Main decking grey ogres😂😂😂
I was exactly the same! I remember trading away my duals for mahamoti djinns and doppelgangers 😂 The only thing I did well was collect a full set of antiqueties 👍
Do you still have that Dragon and Lord?
I love these old cards
Welcome to the channel 👊
10.troll
9.leone
8.spettro
7.,su-chi
6..trisk
5.serendib
4.erhnam
3.juzam
2.serra
1.mishra
Great list 💪
Dear Timmy, sorry but a honor mention should be give to Serra Angel and I would add Kird Ape in the top 10!
Kird Ape was definitely on my mind. It's always great to play him out with Taiga in T1.
Savannah Lions in 1994 was a $7 to $10 rare in a Revised booster. It was played 4x in mono white weenie (Crusade, Army Of Allah, Jihad, etc.)...best card in that deck. Later in 97-ish, in Type 1, it was tier 1 in the zoo deck.
It's the only vanilla creature in OS that still sees solid play today. Very good in those white/blue control decks.
@@TimmytheSorcerer U/W control with Savannah Lions? Super jank. I think when the meta has no tier 1-3 decks, things like Savannah Lions in UW and Mishra's Factory looking like a great card will pass, lol. I wish I could play with you guys, even using proxy decks. I could show just how insane things can get, especially with creatureless decks that topped all of 1994.
@Rorschachqp the meta has changed drastically and you should def play an os tournament and see how it’s warped. Lions allows you to play it out and keep counter magic etc open. You keep attacking for 2 forcing your opponent to do something and probably run into a counter spell or do nothing and keep taking dmg.
@@TimmytheSorcerer Yeah and that’s the thing, if the other decks were tuned correctly, they can’t attack through Kismet/Stasis, Time Walk+Fork, Black Knight, Moat+The Abyss, White Knight, Kird Ape+Taiga and many other things. The way Lions wins is to get it out turn 1 with other weenies turn 2 and wreck someone with Crusade/s. Mono white is a turn 3 kill if the other person isn’t running Ivory Tower or Earthquake. And I’m not talking about Mono white with jank Thunder Spirit. All the creatures should be 1 or 2 mana, the 2 mana creatures should have some sort of protection and be backed by global pump and a random Armageddon.
You rock
For me thunder spirit should be on the top 10 very underrated card
It’s def a good card and a must play in most aggro mono white strategies, but outside those decks you don’t see it often. In what deck do you play your Spirits?
Only just discovered your other top 10's, nicely done! I only disagree with your number 1 because you chose a land and not a creature ;) For my money Serendib Efreet is number one followed closely by Erhnam Djinn, which I think is even better than Juzam Djinn because it can be played in the most decks, because you have to pay only one colored mana to cast it.
Su-Chi is just unfair when you're not playing with manaburn (and old school should ALWAYS be played with manaburn :) )
Thanks 🙏 I still play Su-Chi in Atlantic, but I do make sure that I have a book or a factory for my mana. Def more risky to play with mana burn 👍
@@TimmytheSorcerer Smart! Just looked up the different formats and I guess Atlantic would be my favourite. A definite Yes on the manaburn and I've always had a soft spot for Fallen Empires.
Fallen is a sweet set, I’m a big fan of the art of conch horn. Let me know when you have your deck ready 👍
triskelion is awesome. it can attack and after the damage resolve you just ping the opponent 3 times
Add moxen to cast it early, start copying them with copy artifact, get them back from the yard with animate or reconstruction.. super though to deal with 😩
@@TimmytheSorcerer or clone or shapeshifter. ping all day long
Racing out in the beginning with black is so demoralizing.... swamp, mox.... x2 ritual, sol ring... juz and hippie.... watch ur opponent die inside...!
Zephyr Falcon is your other old school vigilance.
Sedge Troll is a junk rare in 94. In 94, people were starting to play creatureless decks or hyper aggro decks (red green). Sedge Troll is neither.
Sedge plays a vital role in the disco troll decks and is also a welcome guest in the URB decks. A 3/3 regenerator for 3cmc is unmatched in the game.
@@TimmytheSorcerer It's basically unplayable. When you take Storm Seeker + Fork on turn 4 for 20 damage to the face, you're not trying to block on the ground to regenerate. When you face 6 damage on upkeep from Black Vise, Sedge Troll won't help you.
love your videos!!
Thanks David 🙌
How about a top 10 for removal spells in OS?
What would your top 3 look like?
1. Swords to plowshares, 2. Chaos Orb, 3. Lightning Bolt., I think 😊
@simonlovesyou4528 nice top 3 👍 I’ll think about my top 10
Zephyr Falcon is another with vigilance. Add unstable mutation and you have a Serra for only 2 blue and a colorless (with a downside, but still).
Most players seem to prefer Flying Men over Zephyr. Which one do you prefer?
@@TimmytheSorcerer My Suicide Blue deck has both! :p
I like to have creatures of every casting cost to curve out my mana. Flying men=1, Zephyr=2, Serendib Efreet=3, and Serendib Djinn=4
Serendib Djinn is such a cool card! I used to play with three of them in my Fling deck bacnk in the nineties. Do you just sac islands to it and take the 3 (and hit your opponent for 5) or is there a secret game plan..?
Timmy the Sorcerer By the time I get a Djinn out I hopefully have either a few deserts or Mishra’s Factories to sac. But if not, you’re still dealing 5 damage and taking 3, so you’re still outpacing the opponent. I also run playsets of Psionic Blast and Mind Bomb, all very risky plays but powerful!
No clone or V Dopplerganger? Or Royal Assassin?
I agree, they're epic creatures, but see little play in the top OS decks today.
Su-Chi was a joke card in 94, no one wanted it to die on the other player's turn and lose 20% of their life due to mana burn...and they really didn't want to lose 8 life if they had two in play. You imagine the other player Earthquake's for 4 or more, you lose like 12 or more life...very bad.
I love to use my Su-Chies in combination with a Tome or even better cast an unexpected inferno 🔥🔥🔥🔥 It's a great value card if you have use for the 4 mana you get.
@@TimmytheSorcerer with no mana burn, which is a very anti-94 rule in the 94 format, things like Su-Chi and Mirror Universe get totally changed.
Mishra’s Factory should be restricted.
Hi David, what's your main reason for wanting to see it get restricted? What weapons do you currently use against Factories and have you considered that a rule change might help as well?
Moat!
@@TimmytheSorcerer , when almost everybody use them(including me), almost everybody maindecks answers too them too, and then the whole meta has warped around them, reducing the diversity.
Poor and fair guys like the Black Knight, Erg Raiders and Elvish Archers will get a new chance to shine again if the factories get restricted.
@@deeterful , the irony is that even the guys who play Moat usually have the factories in their deck, that should tell you something...
Playing mishra's can be tricky, I dont like playing colorless mana unless im in a mono deck
I’m really looking into getting into old skool. Thanks for the content. Would love to have you on my channel at one stage in the future if you’re free. MTG Control
Hi MtG, always interested in collabs with mtg minded tubers 👍 Send me a msg on my insta, timmy_mtg and let’s see if we can make it happen :))
Timmy the Sorcerer just sent a follow. Thutchings90800 pal👍
very nice video
Thunder who ;) ? Doesn't see a lot of play in my group, but maybe that's because of the price tag. Love the art and it is definitely a good card!
@Manu Bla Bla Bla , Thunder Spirit is only good in conjunction with Jihad, IMHO.
How about the best combo deck
Colourless with a U... a fellow Canadian?
Nope, just a dutchman who unknowingly swaps between uk and us spelling 😅
@@TimmytheSorcerer Love it! Keep up the good work Timmy!!😉👌
2 and 3 are ok. #1 shouldn't even belong in top 10. If I see Factory turn 1, I don't Strip Mine the Factory, I strip their colored land that comes next turn!
Factory is amazing in control shells and has seen super results. Almost all top finishers run a 4 off (remember, most of us play formats with only 1 strip). I do agree, that some decks should play 2/3 instead the full 4 and some shouldn't play any at all.
@@TimmytheSorcerer In 1994, no tier 1 or tier 2 decks run any copies Factory. Factory is for games lasting like 10 turns. In tier 1 1994, you will be guaranteed to lose in 4-5 turns unless you play permission ("control" was dubbed later) and you are going for a lock. UW was there to force a long term lock and you needed spell counters to protect your important permanents or as last resort save your life spells. Factory doesn't lock, combo and it doesn't kill fast.
Factory ain't no creature! It's a land!
Tell that to my poor Kird Ape 😭
Thanks to unhinged magi I’m here. Like 50 videos and I unlock an achievement?
Great! Ed and OB are awesome 🙌. Glad to read that you're enjoying my vids. Do you play OS as well?
Played kitchen table mono black mostly during revised. I have an Ebay store now while Daughert young. I have a library :)
Consider yedwyn efreet and misleading efreet!
Mishra's Factory is #1 by a wide margin. Too wide of a margin. I hate to interject anything that resembles negativity into a well done and fun video, but this card needs to be banned. It's a 4 of in almost every deck for all the competitive decks. At the very least it needs to be restricted with the pump rule taken away. Don't we miss seeing the knights, kird apes, elvish archers, pendlehaven creatures, and any other ground creature with 2 power and less than 4 toughness? This card literally made me quit EC/ATL. In 1994 this card didn't deal damage, did it really need to be made stronger? Get rid of "Mishra's Moat".
The card is def super strong. Most decks have a lot of answers against artifacts and a lot of people play with 4 answers against lands (chaos orb, strip and 2 others). It's so risky to animate a factory, because you lose a land and a creature at the same time.