HDPE, How Much Processing Is Required; I Put It To The Test!: 043
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2017
- I cut HDPE to different sizes and shapes trying to determine how much processing is required to get a solid block of HDPE.
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Technical Notes and Corrections
After speaking with a neighbor in the comments he points out that air can be trapped when large pieces are used. This explains the pockets that were seen in the samples. Perhaps good mixing during the heating process might help with this (which is tricking to do), or heating under vacuum which is more difficult to do in a DIY shop. - Навчання та стиль
Okay boss so I have also been working with the HDPE plastics for a bit now and one thing I might offer is when you check your cooks, get an old wooden rolling pin from thrift store. so when you check it give it a good rolling with the kitchen tool. and as for cooling you can cut time down to nothing when you roll it a couple times during cook and then clamp it up before dropping it into a cold water bath until cool to the touch. I use cookie sheets as I have never seen any need for a thicker sheet. I have also used Atomic shrimps method of using a sandwich griddle again from thrift store. I have also used soup cans with cooking spray to make fence posts by
making several small beams and then using hot air gun to heat the ends and clamping to join several of them to reach desired lengths. Keep the videos coming .
I also tried the griddle and that worked really well. I now use silicon baking sheets and they are also awesome. Thanks for the tips
I love this approach to DIY project videos. Not so much "here's a my blueprints, here's a montage, here's the finished product" so much as all the messy, interesting stuff. The trials, the comparisons, evaluating what works, what doesn't, and why it does/n't. Instead of "Here's a thing I did!" it's more "Here are things I tried." That's way more informative, because a lot of people are going to experiment with the theoretical process and try different things. Having some previous results to draw on can save people time as well as teach us where new things can still be tried, and why one approach works differently than another. I also really appreciate the explanations for your reasoning, like here your goals are to produce as simplified version an existing process rather than try to get incrementally better end results.
My comment was going to be, you really need to cut that in half to see how well it fused, well just like all of your videos you covered that. Jeremy, Thank You for sharing all of your hard work.
wonderful bit of curiosity followed by a logical approach, resulting in very reasonable conclusions...and a splendid home-brew bandsaw! You're a man after my own heart! Salute!
Oh my god! That band saw is BEAUTIFUL! ! !
I enjoyed your presentation and your willingness to help other diy folks! I am still wanting to shred at home!
I am so grateful for this man and his videos. Like words can not explain. His interests FULLY align with mine and and he has taught me and is teaching me so much. I will pass this knowledge onto my children. I especially love reusing plastic. It's great for the earth!!!!!
8:50 Home built wooden badsaw! Nerd cred bonus achieved +20%!
Agree. I'm thinking when I build my shop, I'll add one of these.
Isn't it a thing of beauty?!?!
I like your excellence in clearly showing and explaining things and your passion to make things affordable. You're doing great work. Please keep it up.
Thank you!
Mould release spray or paste will help out with your sticking problem. By the way the cheapest grinding platform is the one you mentioned by Precious plastic. Well worth it in the end.
Silicone-based mould-release spray is quite effective. Alternatively I have used silicon-based car polish
I am using the silicone backing sheets and they work great
Excellent tutorial on the reclaiming methods.. Well done!
Thanks for your time and effort taken to experiment and share; really informative.
Haven’t been so excited by a near 20 min UA-cam video in a long time
Thanks for working this out, Jeremy. I'm working on similar projects, with far fewer resources than you have (money, space, and tools), so having someone work out more of the kinks is really useful. I could really use a shredder with attitude; I just made shoe-soles out of the rubber from old tennis balls. Without a rubber-shredder, this is not a quick or easy process. I love the results, but dang, what if it was the process of hours instead of days? So, again, thanks for working out designs for those of us who don't have the resources to go through all the R&D.
Jeremy, just a heads up. I cut flat pcs about 2 inches square or so, put them in a tin can one at a time, and hit it with a heat gun set high. I get almost perfect rounds, the thickness I want. as you melt them, you add a cold one and use something to compress and spin the already heated hdpe, and then melt the new sheet on. it works great, with no air or gaps. its also very easy to turn at that point, once it cools.
Non-Stick Silicone Baking Sheets. Can withstand temperatures up to 450°F.
:
Do you mean ABOVE 450°?
Check out BJB Industries, they have two part Silicon that pours, thus mold making becomes easy. Some of their products can go to 650 degrees as I recall. Essentially, you would be making reusable pan liners, top and bottom. Just a thought.
Thanks Jeremy, as usual, I'm coming up with problems at home and you're already there with a ton of research to add to my thoughts today. I've just started (this week) to make some things with recycled HDPE after dwelling on the idea for some months.
A mallet head was first and today, some soft jaws for my vice. The mallet head worked just fine, cutting a laundry detergent bottle into little (3-5mm) squares and layering. Cooking at 350° for 20 minutes, then compressing the form each time I removed from the oven before adding more material to the mold. I used steel for the mold and coated it with paste wax before I began. It stuck initially, but I drilled through the bottom of the mold and the drill bit pushed the form out in one swift motion. It was simply a case of breaking it free and since the form was cylindrical it had both the rotational force of the drill as well as my downward pressure acting upon it when I broke through the mold with a 3/4" drill.
Today, I've got fed up with cutting with scissors. Twice the plastic of the mallet head and I've only made one jaw, hence I began my search for shredding ideas. I've not coated the inside of the mold today, and it's still cooling so I don't know yet how much of a mistake that was. I need to use the mold for the second jaw so I'm unwilling to drill through this one unless I have to. I'm hoping the metal will shrink less than the plastic as it cools, but I'll see in a couple of hours if that hope was in vain. I've been using wood blocks today to compress and these do not seem to stick to the plastic. I've got a wooden block in the mold to make a void (just a piece of 2x4) and that takes up about 2/3rds of the space within so I'm hopeful I can get the thing out without damaging it. Maybe wooden molds are the way to go.
Thank you for your efforts. I'll go back through your uploads now to see if I can find some more conclusions from you. You're always, such a valuable source for me.
MAN! This was a GREAT video! Perfect length and balance of topic! Thanks!
Great video Jeremy, very interesting. For non stick lining - someone mentioned " teflon liner sheets" you can get these (in the UK anyway) as oven liners so that may be worth looking at. They are quite tough and have a PTFE coating. Look forward to more of your experiments.
I myself have been working on this and went through many of same problems very informative my friend awes work
This is excellent my man. I came across this bc I modified my kayak with some spare (LDPE) and now im trying to max out with it and just build a boat from recycle HDPE.
So im really glad you have done a lot of the trial and error here and shared your results with us for different methods.
Thank you!
Yo thank you so much for this. Your process videos are good science, and really inspiring.
I really like your presentation style, showing the thinking, experiments and outcomes. Subscribed!
Great video. Thanks for helping us all learn.
Oh my god!!! I've been looking for this exact project. As well as a furnace to melt aluminum. Wow.. I haven't even watched but I know I won't be disappointed!!! On to the video education. Goodness knows I need to be learned much more!
He made his frkn ban saw, nice! Been wanting to attempt to make canopies for my race quadcopters instead of the 3 d printer thing Good vid on the subject
I have best results with minimal shredding. Actually I think "chopping into chunks small enough to fit in the pot" describes the process better than "shredding."
I recommend long cooking times in a closed container, and a very slow cooling schedule. If I press something down on it while it's melting, it prevents the voids from bubbling out. If I let it cool as fast as room temperature will cool it, it warps something fierce. If I use very long cooking times without putting a lid on the melt container, I find that the surface may scorch or oxidize. So I hold it at 350F for a full hour after it's fully melted, then let it cool down no faster than 25F every couple of hours until it's under 200F. You can do this by just gradually turning down your oven, or by putting the melt pot into some very well-insulated container. If I'm pouring a complicated mold or a deep one, all these times are doubled because it takes longer for voids to bubble out.
Oh, about mold release: If I'm making blocks just to store plastic until use the way you're doing, parchment paper is the best thing to prevent it from sticking to the inside of the melt pot. If I'm melting it into molds, I rub the insides of the silicon rubber molds with a very light coating of Crisco (which is basically plain nontoxic vegetable oil).
Very informative. Great info. Thanks for doing this.
This video made me subscribe. Very professionally made and very intelligent presenter!
Welcome to the neighborhood!
I am most the way through your playlist on HDPE plastic recycling and have watched just about all of the precious plastics videos. I have certainly gained a lot of knowledge but have not come across the final answer to what I am trying to do. I will not be turning plastic on a lathe, I don't think some voids on the inside nor even a few pinholes on the surface will make a difference for my purpose, but what I do need is as close to perfectly flat and even thickness as possible (with no warping). What I am wanting to make are bats. Not the flying kind and not the sports kind, but rather the potter's kind. Simply a flat sheet in a circular shape that sits between the wheel head and the clay. When you are finished throwing the pot, you simply lift it off the wheel head by removing the bat. Later, after setting up a bit, you remove the pot from the bat. I could cut the circle out of a sheet of plastic but would prefer to just mold it and not have to re-recycle plastic. Would love for the surface to be pretty smooth but a light texture would be no problem. Many commercial plastic bats have a smooth side and a textured side, it is a matter of preference which side you use. I have used both and lean towards the smooth side but do not have a strong preference. How thick it is is not really an issue, I would simply want them as thick as needs to be to not flex or warp and no thicker. I guess I am asking for suggestions from you or you neighbors. I feel like my final product is very basic and there has to be a simple method involving few, if any, specialty tools like the ones precious plastic has designed. My question is not really about shredding, I will have to experiment with that to find the best/easiest method for my needs, it is more about how to shape and finish my final product, which again, is simply a flat sheet of a consistent thickness. And if it is already round (or roundish, honestly doesn't even have to be round, just my preference), all the better. Thanks, love all your videos, been watching them well before I ever thought to play around with plastic!
I currently use a Griddle and silicon baking sheets, which not only give me a uniform flat sheet, it doesn't have any voids if you are willing to open the lid and knead it once or twice during the cycle. Very easy, very cheap, and I just haven't made a follow-up video on it.
Your work makes youtube better thank you
really appreciate you analysis.
👍🏽
Thanks Jeremy! Just getting into this, need all the ideas I can get. I subscribed.
Awesome, and welcome to the neighborhood!
Hi Jeremey , absolutely love the enormous amount of different content you have, with every search it just gets more interesting. In relation to reusing/recycling HDPE , watch these two British brothers , they have a channel like yours called BROTHERS MAKE , they have some great tips and ideas, I'm sure everyone will learn a lot from them, cheers
safety police provoking shredder lol
thanks for the "learned from experience" wisdom
I found this very helpful ... many thanks.
Terrific work. Really interesting.
I had good luck using Teflon coated pans. The material "snapped" off fairly easily after it cooled. And you can find the pans dirt cheap at a Good Will Store.
Cole Dunlay this is exactly what we use in the hdpe industry, all of our heating plates/elements are sent to a teflon coating company that usually coates kitchen pans, its the same coating we use in the industry exactly, so you got it exactly right and you will get the best surface possible, only other tip i have is use isopropyl alcohol to clean all your plastic and all your teflon before every time u heat it and the teflon again if your do multiple pieces, iso wipes are the most convinient..
My thoughts exactly
I live near the goodwill on Dearborn in seattle. (Their biggest store)
It's my candy store.
My GF hates it when I go there.
@@elfpimp1 Haha that smell sure is interesting there
Baking HDPE is a bit of an art. I watched a guy on UA-cam and he had a convection oven. He was getting great results too. So I got myself a convection oven. Let me tell you, convection is the way to go. With convection you can run hotter without burning the plastic. That's all there is to it really. The hotter you can run the faster, and more complete the melt. My melts take me 16 minutes. As far as what temperature you should run I say run as hot as you can without burning the plastic. Ignore all melting point figures. So calibrate your oven. Take a little sample of plastic and keep cranking up the heat until you burn it. Then back off that 5, or 10 degrees. The critical number is burning temperature. In my oven I run what it says is 385F Before I went convection I could only run up to 365F. Even then I would get some surface burning. Don't cover your melt either. You can do all the weighting and pressing and what have you out of the oven. Burnt HDPE looks kind of like burnt sugar. It stinks too. You should know when you're burning the plastic. I've seen people do melts in glass and HDPE doesn't stick to smooth glass. As the melt shrinks it just pops right off. I melt in a custom metal box I made that I line neatly with non-stick parchment paper. i.imgur.com/RpqLjJq.jpg some blocks i.imgur.com/boPwUiN.jpg That's all translucent water jug plastic.
I always go ahead and hit the like button when I watch your videos.lol
Having said that, I've been watching a few videos and I saw some people use stone tiles ,large ones, they seem to help a lot with a smoother surface. Also you can make molds out of plywood and two-by-fours, or metal plates and maybe just whatever you can find, and press the plastic into squares Etc. Also I found out that you need to kind of work the plastic like you would Taffy for really stiff dough, using parchment paper a metal spatula & welders gloves. It works really well on the stone tile used to melt it in the oven.
The key is pressing, folding and molding to remove any air pockets, spaces and Bubbles.
I'm thinking of using two large stonel tiles to sandwich and press it in the oven and a weight of some sort. I'm wondering if a little flour sprinkled on some of the working areas would help while folding and working the hot plastic? Great video by the way as usual!
Hi, I work in a HDPE bottle making plant. the shredded stuff is called regrind and we grind it so it will mix with the virgin and so it will fit into the press screw. Our molds are made of polished chrome and we still use silicone spray to help it not to stick, till everything heats up. for the home jobber I would say process the stuff to minimize the air gap between pieces to minimize air pockets. the plastic bonds very well and easy so if there is air that gets sealed in you likely won't get it out without getting the plastic close to liquid (too hot).
Thank you
When I was 18 I worked at a safety factory making plastic safety gear, hard hats, glasses, etc.... The place is was in small pellets simular size of pellet rabbit food comes to mind. A powder dye was added when needed then placed in a hopper. As the plastic was melted it was injected into a mold. Mold opened there was the parts. So it is no surprise to me the smaller pieces work better. Perhaps a better clamping system to apply more pressure before it cools. Good luck Jeremy.
Great video very informative !
Non-stick Teflon sheets that are meant for grilling are cheap, very tough, and available at most grocery stores.
Love your channel. Best thing I have seen for cheap to cut plastic is a metal meat grinder.
Thank you! Near used a meat grinder. Interesting idea
Nice video. Americans used to have this... nature. I learned a lot here, you saved me time. High temperature mold release will save you time.
I started using silicon baking sheets and they work amazingly well. It was because someone like you recommended it.
Jeremy, thanks for all the valuable information. Just a thought. You might try a hydraulic press for a more uniform thickness with the HDPE. Simple frame and bottle jack might work. Thanks again, I really enjoy your presentations.
Jeremy Fieldings x Hudrolik press channel crossover episode, or riot 😄
Jeremy, i form mine in ingots in soda cans in a crockpot.
About 1/2” square flakes.
Not sure what you plan to make. Mine all get turned on the lathe. The hdpe shrinks enough to easily come out of their molds.
+Ty Goodman I prefer sheets. I want to cut it like plywood to make gears and things like that
Jeremy Fielding
Love your channel great content.
Ty Goodman what do you make with those on the lathe? And could you explain you ignot method a little please?
countrieboyz2009
I currently hand cut the hdpe with scissors or shears into roughly 1’ squares then put them in an aluminum can with the top cut off. At that point I put the aluminum can in the crockpot at about 250° and let it sit for a few hours until it starts to melt.
I make shaving handles with them and knobs for cabinets or drawers. They’re pretty fun to turn on the lathe because it shoots thin shavings in the air.
That’s what was so great about Jeremy‘s project. A shredder that so accessible as far as materials.
I haven’t tried to build it yet.
Try putting it in a vacuum chamber after Heating to get the air bubbles out. Reheat and then press with clamps or with a Arbor press maybe that will work with a good solid piece. Good luck .
Jeremy - Love your channel. I picked up a couple of blenders and garage sales for shredding the plastic. Does a good job but takes a long time to get enough to "cook" into sheets. Looking forward to see what you do next with the HDPE.
wow you got a blender to shred plastic? I tried that and the blender I got has zero chance of managing it. I tried using an Oster. I think the people that get that to work have one of those $400 Vitamix blenders.
I found an Oster for a couple of bucks at a garage sale and gave it a try. I had to cut the pieces small enough to fit in the blender and it was a lot if stop and start of the blender to get the pieces to drop down into the blades. I got it to work but was very time consuming. I simply wanted to see if I could get a few pieces large enough to turn on the lathe. It was not worth the time I put into it for what I got out of it - in my opinion. Just as I was finishing up, one of the blades broke off and I stopped.
I've never thought of reclaimed plastic as a building product. It's a great idea!
Great video neighbor maybe old teflon pans for pressing plates just a thought thanks for all your hard work
+Doug Van Allen I like it
I cut up my milk jugs (HDPE) to make round a plastic adapter for my RV Air Conditioner (I vented the AC/Heat to the back of the RV). As a mold, I stacked cardboard, then cut my form out, and taped the side to keep the HDPE from deforming. Took about 2 hours, but it worked really well. I used a blender to shred three containers, and it looked very consistent similar to your commercial shredder sample (it was a Ninja blender). Since the burning point of the paper is 451 deg, doing 350 deg keeps it well in limit. So try the cardboard (corrugated paper actually), it worked really well and the cutting was very similar to wood working.
Ayyyyyeeee it's a brother Doing maker stuff! Keep going!
That's the beauty of tech geeks, we are all too excited making stuff and enjoying each other's company to act like idiots. Jeremy is really good at what he does, and I hope young people of every race see him as a positive role model. I agree, keep up the good work Jeremy!
I earned a certificate for plastic pipe welding from the Laborers International Union> HDPE pipe is seamlessly welded using electrical irons in the field powered by AC generators . Such pipe is used for gas and other utility lines. We had hand held and bracket held irons with handles. Those sometimes have built in thermometers and there are handheld thermometers as well. However we were taught to use our eyes to see how liquid the HDPE becomes when heated. The heat needed varies with the materil size and the job. But generally speaking we worked fast at temperatures of 450 degrees fahrenheit for pipe around 2 inches and 650 degrees for heavy pipe with thick walls about 6 inches in diameter as I recall. ( It was in the early 90s.) At those temperatures flow is not a problem. I have used a soldering torch with a solid tip to make repairs and bond HDPE car parts at home successfully. Again, watching the shine of the material wihich emerges when it is hot enough to flow and seamlessly bond.
Thank you.
Good experimentation. Very thorough.
Change your baking paper when it starts to turn brown or it will turn your white plastic brown, plus it rips easier when it gets older,
The black pellets may not be HDPE. I've had a few that were something else entirely and needed much more heat than normal to melt.
UHMWPE = ultra high molecular weight polyethylene.
Lots of good information here. I’ve been wanting to learn this process & make pieces for projects on the lathe & mill.
Thanks
great work please keep going
Well done! Classic, textbook scientific method applied to a noble cause and outcome! I might suggest that comparing ultra high molecular weight poly-ethylene to more common high density poly-ethylene impacts your results more than you recognize in the video, otherwise I continue to be glad I subscribed! Keep teaching me!
Even if you remove the "special" plastic, consider that my "shop-shredded" plastic performed just as good. That was the real comparison. HDPE from the same source, some shredded to dust, and some barely shredded. The professionally shredded stuff just added another layer to the concept I think.
I agree, which is what I like about your approach. Well done!!
love your method with the madness genius sir bravo
Rad video!
Have you tried a teflon sheet? They are used in the screen printing/T-shirt industry to cure ink at up to 375° (I’m not sure of the max heat as I’ve never needed it higher) without sticking to the ink.
Only issue you may want to research is the duration of time the teflon sheet can handle 350°.
If you go that route and it’s mostly working, but a little is sticking...spray some silicone on the teflon sheet, let it sit for a few then wipe off the excess and you should be golden. Although you may want to do the same research on the silicone heat limits as well.
Good luck dude!
Looking forward to learning more here.
Thanks!
:)
I used to work in a color plastic master batch company. When we would press out pellets we used mylar sheets. I'm sure it would work wonderfully for you, but it is kinda pricey. Also note that you can reuse the sheets.
I also wanted to point out that the color pigments change the melting point of the plastic. In my memory I wanted to say that black plastic seemed to take longer to melt, but would hold the heat longer, which may have skewed the results of your industrial shredded plastic. I don't know the type of HDPE used but I know that some of the difference between plastic is the amount of wax in it. In the current company I work for we use process aid which is mainly wax. It helps to make the plastic look better when processed.
what I have found in my experience is that no matter what size the plastic pieces are when melted the air bubbles must be allowed to rise to the top and be popped prior to applying pressure. pressure must be applied 2 HDPE to avoid shrinkage. the trick to the process is letting the HDPE come to temperature and allow the bubbles to rise and be popped. color and swirling effects can be achieved when allowing the bubbles to rise. Tiny Bubbles or a lot slower at Rising and often do not. the reason why you get better results with tiny or flakes is because you are reducing the amount of air between the spaces. if you want to increase blending use larger bubbles that will surface to the top such as bottle caps
Thank you Jeremy, Very informative video. I am a new subscriber.
+twitchyourwhiskers welcome to the neighborhood!
I haven't finished every video yet, (love them) (or my thoughts for this idea) but I started wondering about punching the plastic. Even many layers at once and shearing the 'swiss cheese' leftovers. (hollow steel tube punch/multi layers of plasict per stroke or solid highspeed feeding one layer through like a saw) (High 'capacity' punch... zig-zag punch blade... I love my time watching yalls vids!
Sounds interesting
Let me over these thoughts I think if you would use wood block to fill the top pan , then add the weights you would get less voids Another thing you might try is to flash cool you finished peace as soon as you think its melted to the point you want drop it into a water bath ( you may have to empty the water and refill the water bath a time or two as the temp will often heat the water as fast as you put it in, size and ratios of work peace and water also adds to how many times you will need to change out the water ). I've used these methods myself for many years and get vary consistant results. This a great video and I very much like you're videos on building shop machines and tools. Thanks again
Are you going to do a follow up on the HDPE recycling and how it could be used, as well as other methods such as making and using extruders for making different sizes of plastic molds, shapes, etc, for larger projects?
Hey Jeremy, Ive had great results with a teflon coated skillets, the electric ones with the turn dial. Hdpe does not stick, which eliminates parchment paper. Also not using the oven for cooking plastic was a huge win with the roommates.
+Jesse Hughes that is similar to what I am trying right now.
...Did I just watch a plastic working video by Tim Meadows? lol great job! I have been using tin snips/aviation cutters to cut up my plastic into small bits. Takes more time. But I kind of enjoy it. Plus not electric cost lol.
Great coverage ! Are your samples from one to other by weight or by eye ?
Props on the dado shredder. The industrially shredded stuff might be a red herring, because it's not the same plastic. UHMWPE is Ultra High Molecular Weight PE, so it's essentially a different molecule. The melting and flow characteristics may or may not be the same as regular HDPE.
I didn't draw any world changing conclusions, only that the most shredded plastic had the least voids, the least shredded plastic had the most voids, and the others followed suit on the same scale. It wouldn't be published anywhere, but for back yard science that is pretty consistent results. My DIY shredded plastic also had no voids. What I learned is shredding makes enough difference that I want to continue shredding. But I also didn't want to pick a fight with those who insist you don't need to shred. That is why I pulled it back alittle at the end with the "you can probably make full sheets work with some trial and error.
@@JeremyFieldingSr I'm a chemist, although not a polymer specialist. I would expect UHMW HDPE to be more difficult to flow as the much longer molecules are more probably more tangled. Wikipedia says the melting temperature is approximately 130 C, somewhat higher than ordinary HPDE. It also notes that it is not recommended to heat at 130 for any length of time, as it changes the material - although it doesn't specify why.
I too am interested in a shredder and have no funds to purchase the real deal, so I'm enjoying your efforts. Thanks.
I enjoyed the shredder series and how motors work videos. I'm venturing shredding plastics in my area, because it's loaded with litter and I want to help. I'm trying to find solutions for a shredder, So far looks like i'm spending 500. Man I've learn a lot and gonna just keep on opening my mind to everything. Now when I see a something on the side of the road I'm like, " I wonder if the motor and gears are still good " lol
Try silpat® to line pans. Exceeds temperature 280c/480f, food safe (if that matters) and..stuff.
Might want to try the silicon mat and let the plastic melt then transfer it to another mold form to get the thickness and press out the air bubbles. Once cooled it will shrink and come out easy. I have seen a few guy on YT do it that way. I have done small batches of shredded plastic and will use that method because it melts better. I used a regular cross paper shredder for the little amount of plastic. But I am looking to amp it up. Looking forward to seeing your projects.
Also, if you don't want to get the mat, you might want to look into the silicon baking pans.
I got one of them silicone sheets now myself. I haven't fooled around with it yet though. Because I do want to start making plastic sheeting. I am looking for a sandwich press. I got loads of blocks of HDPE, I want sheets!
for those of you watching these videos 5 years later like I am, check out the Brothers Make channel - they get some surprisingly good results with a panini press and silicone baking sheets. They use a home-brew hydraulic press for their sheetmaking, but I've found a bench vice to work fairly well with my small plywood-and-sheet-metal molds.
Air bubbles are tricky-- it might not be entirely your molding materials alone, but your slab method. I base this on experience with stoneware ceramic slab making, and stoneware clay recycling.. There are a lot of problems in ceramics with air bubbles, or voids where foreign particles were included, which burn out or burst in firing, flecks of plaster, small rocks, for example. You could have had some dust or lint issues, or maybe your melt didn't have enough soak time at a critical mid temperature, air could have been included in settling.Another technology where air bubbles mess up sheets is in paper marbling, it takes a lot of practice and some tinkering to avoid.
thaliahelene - very nice analogy except in plastics u could ultimately just boil them real good. sort of like smelting. u could probably do that with clay but it would be more like making a slurry, and the heat evaporates the excess water. the problem with his slabs is not enough heat. in plastics particle size is important because it is a time factored engineered melt, otherwise it is more like playing with very dangerous wax.
Thanks, Michael. What I am saying is if the plastic particles don't fully heat up and perfectly slump, they may settle with trapped air. Boiling could introduce air, too, I would guess that slower heat is better. It could be that particle size is less important than the slab forming process than longer melting, maybe pressure. Who knows, there could even be additional issues with surface tension, static electricity. It's tricky to get air out of ceramic materials. You can't heat clay slurry directly into a solid, it will explode, must dry first. In ceramics you have to press air bubbles out of the malleable clay, in a procedure called wedging, and hope you got them all. I don't know much about plastics process, but some oversight of ceramics might be useful in identifying similar bottlenecks. I had hoped only to point out that air bubbles are common problems across crafting, and that there could be a range of fault causes in a slab, of which particle melt size is only one factor.
I understand the strong point is to build your own unit and I fully enjoy your thought process. I looked at Amazon and noted some paper shredders can shred DVD’s, credit cards and cd’s. Would you think that would be a small scale option?
Holy sh....that is a badass bandsaw!!
The factory I work at, makes plastic auto parts. We use heat and pressure to do injection moulding. Another thought to help remove voids is vacuum pressure when setting the melted plastic
I actually have a vacuum pump. It would require a chamber where in I could place a griddle, and cook the whole thing under vacuum. That would be interesting at a minimum, although not a cheap process to copy.
Jeremy Fielding maybe a process more like vacuum forming would work?
Great video. Thanks. Is plastic an insulator? Could the thickness you are attempting affect the quality due to uneven temp outside/inside? If that is the case, maybe you could you could heat incrementally in layers like 3d printing.
Jeremy, for solid adhesion with NO "voids", you need to apply more pressure while it is heated. I worked in the injection molding field for a number of years and to get a solid "no void" requires increasing the "back pressure" or, in the case of your concept, more weights in the pan
+Big Renegade we are on the same page. I am working on a press in combination with improvements to the shredder. I think the final product will be consistently uniform with those two together.
On my tests the best results come fairly small, a finger or two of size, not too big and not too small, the trick is getting them into similar sizes so they melt more or less the same, that's why using the sheets worked well enough, similar sizes similar melting places, also the clamp, to make tubes I use a caulking gun with a metal tube, that makes nice and solid pieces even tho they were scraps of different sides, the professional shred plastic is great is so small when you clamp it dosent create air bubles
Some have suggested silicone baking sheets, which I think would work, but you might also try cooking spray like PAM, or injection mold release spray. Try googling, "paintable food grade injection mold release spray".
stay away from oils. It gets in the plastic. If you're sensible and neat about it non-stick parchment paper is all you need to use.
Paul Frederick that depends on the plastic, and how heavily it is applied. You certainly would not want to spray the plastic directly, but a very light mist on the pans, or other pressing surfaces isn't going to hurt, especially if using any of the PE or PP based plastics. I agree though that an oil based spray is likely to be less effective than an industrial silicone based mold spray.
There are silicone lubricating sprays that I have used on vinyl windows. A spritz of it and wiping to cover the surface might work even with the Goodwill teflon.
Thank you for the time and effort you put into doing these different kinds of the test samples. Also, apparently you made your own shredder. Could you please tell me how you did that or give me some information of how I can make mine as well.
Which plastic is best to make a large yet foldable cutting mat to use to cut sewing fabric with a rotary cutter please?
Hey Jeremy, I have been a subscriber for quite a while under my channel The Fishing Hobby name and I recently started a second channel to focus on other interests.
I have been working with HDPE for a while now and get good results with minimal processing but using lots of clamping pressure (a small shop press is ideal). Making round cylinders for lathe use is the most practical use I have found for HDPE recycling. I haven't had as much luck with large flat pieces but I think HDPE grocery bags may be the best way to get flat sheets with minimal processing. Easy enough to cut the bags into large flat pieces. It would take a lot of them but you get them at almost any store so they are plentiful. Making round cylinders is easy enough using a soup can and a snug fitting round piece of wood pressed using a lot of pressure (again, a shop press is ideal).
Here is a video I uploaded about combining pieces of HDPE cutting boards to make a bushing that you may find interesting or useful: ua-cam.com/video/hHLwhoWdwTo/v-deo.html
Still Loving your channel, keep up the good work!
It takes a hill of bags to make a tiny block of plastic. Those bags are mostly air. There's a woman on UA-cam that irons the bags into sheets. Which is one of the most novel techniques I've ever seen. She has mad ironing skillz!
THANKSGIVING
It would be nice if you could test the breaking/bending strength of the pieces. Since they are different thicknesses, you would have to use a % formula for a approximate reading if you can't shave them to the same thickness. Thanks for another great video.
Hello Mr Fielding. I am wondering if a vacuum between the pans would help with the bubbles and has a bonus could help with making the size closer.
All my best.
Bobby
Likely yes that would make a big difference
For that white sticky plastic, you can use a mould spray.. Spray silicone.. Waxes, etc are not going to work very well because of the temps, but, you can try that also.. Will work if you don't lift, press, lift press.
Have you tried letting it cool just enough to still be pliable but not hardened and running it through sizing rollers? (like the old washing machine dryers had on them)
This may compress it enough to fill voids before it cools and should make uniform thickness blanks. Just an idea.
+Victor Strickland that is interesting. I have not tried that. It actually sounds pretty promising. The rollers would have to be hot. It cools very quickly.
The Farm Life, sounds like a good idea, and I believe if I had a lathe, I could turn a couple of DOM tubes to a smooth surface, pack with dry sand & cap them and have rollers that I could heat and run the 'melt' through.
Sean Flanagan, thats more in line with what was thinking. I think the real trick is going to be monitoring the exterior heat and finding that sweet spot where the exterior is pliable but not real sticky. It would have to be done quickly too. Maybe have the tubes geared together and have it all motor operated? (I know he hates motors but maybe he will try it lol)
Barry Manilowa, I do follow your train of thought and understand it. With the idea of rolling it out, the sweet spot in temperature and the pressure applied would be critical. If the inside is still near melting, the voids sides may bond together and seal under the pressure (like forge welding a piece of steel.. The perfect temp and pressure are critical). I don't know if it would work but, it would be a good experiment to try. If nothing else, it would make the blanks more uniform.
I was thinking the same thing. Jeremy, you can get a hand cranked pasta making roller for about 20 bucks at a yard sale. They are made out of stainless steel, so could easily be heated.
You are an Amazing Person, and seem to be Reading my mind. I am presently in the process of attempting to make a rudder and stabilizer for a Vintage Cox Airplane which does not seem to difficult, but I often ""Psych myself out"". So I have come to the conclusion, What the Heck, I have nothing to lose except a few bucks for the clay and resins. Keep up the Great Work Jeremy,
Respectfully, Jim P. Jenuine-Motor
+James Price thank you!
Use a pyrex glass baking dish or glazed bakeware and you WILL NOT need any paper, weights or kneedding needed. Bake around 300 F and as it melts down add more about every hour until thickness needed. For a cylinder type shape use a coffee cup or round glazed bakeware. I've had great success with fine chips as well as milk jugs cut in half, it will all self level and be bubble free with a little time. and let it cool in the vessel used to melt it in, it will shrink and self release. hope this helps.
I started using silicon baking sheets and they are perfect
Great Video as usual but WHAT are the weights you are using??? I do so enjoy your videos and you are probably one of the best engineers I have ever followed!!
Just blocks of iron
Have you tryed a rolling pin take some flat stock secure it to some plywood , melt the plastic put some foil over the stock put the melted plastic between the stock and roll it with the pin .put some foil or wax paper on the rolling pin .
Maybe you would show us how you was able to use the dado to shred this! Also this could be a way to ultimately reshred the plastic to make a uniform product!
Hi Jeremy, have just found your saw blades experiment, your experience is precious because I was going to try similar way for the same reason - making the schredding process cheaper. I see this video was published 6 years ago, do you have any progress since that?
Re: non-sticking surfaces: have you tried silicone coldering mat or PTFE sheets? Thank you.
For non-stick, maybe check out vacuum bagging film for fiberglass processes - it's probably reusable if it doesn't tear, not too expensive, and IIRC it's rated for up to 450F.
I also wonder if you could use Metal Conduit with threaded caps and a compression spring pushing a plunger against your stock. You would get round ingots to work with.
Maybe some grease or a spray of silicone to help it release (it should shrink quite a bit as it cools).
+Joseph Dunn I have been concerned about using grease... only because I don’t know if it will effect the plastic. But I can certainly sacrifice some plastic to find out.
Thanks for researching..it's been fun following along. I wonder if some kind of progressively intensive clamping while hot in a mold (v. transfer to a mold, then clamping as the mass cools) and returning to the oven will narrow the slight voiding difference between your shred and the professional shred. Thinking something along the lines of a bookbinder's press...maybe three or four intervals to tighten, putting the walls of the voids into contact & return to the oven to seal.
+Paul Campbell that is almost exactly what I am thinking. I want to use a large griddle modified to heat and apply pressure at the same time
+Sean Flanagan I prefer to make sheets and cut it like plywood
Jeremy Fielding I saw a video of someone making an hdpe mallet and he used a panini press which worked perfectly.
+Gary Pritchard I bought myself a griddle for the same purpose we shall see
If you melt the plastic right you should not have air bubbles. Jeremy is running too cold, and covering the melt isn't helping him get air out either. But getting a perfectly consolidated block of HDPE is kind of tricky.