A lot of people kept saying it's a bad ending, but for me this is the best ending, Iori got to live true to himself and die pursuing his craft, he also got a friend too. What could be more beautiful of an ending for a man who spend his entire life pursuing his craft?
I think all the endings are pretty good, and while this one isn't my favorite I like your way of looking at it. For me it's feels kinda sad that Iori felt the need to go this far, but I still think he's an amazing character. Wouldn't have made this video and be planning another (that won't be releasing for a loooong time) if I didn't like him. I also feel bad for Saber and Kaya in this ending. Saber looks more pained then Iori in that final scene between them, and Kaya is probably mostly in the dark and has no clue why her brother is dead.
I think I like the NG+ normal endings more than the NG+ ending. I like to imagine that after destroying the grail, Iori settled with the waxing moon ritual as being the most of how much he'll be able to push his craft further, and chose to not throw his peaceful life with Kaya away to change that. He was born in the wrong era, but there's nothing that can be done to fix that. It's painful, but it's the "Iori who wishes to do what's right" winning over the "Iori who wishes to be the best swordsman". It's his humanity winning over his will to dominate the way of the sword. His blade remains unsated, but he accepts to leave it as is.
Probably the best ending he could've gotten for himself, but it probably sucks to be Kaya in that situation. Just by his very nature a perfectly happy ending for everyone was never possible though, which is the tragedy of it all. In the more normal timelines he just wound up a retainer for Kaya's household rather than burning his life away, it's kind of a moral conundrum as to whether maximizing happiness for your surroundings at the expense of your not being perfectly satisfied is the correct choice. Either way, being Iori sucks.
My favorite ending is personally "A Ray of Light" since it's overall the happiest ending of the cast. And while Iori feels the most content in the NG+ ending, It's worth noting that it's far from impossible that he never finds contentment with a peaceful life. Accepting the pain of the incompatibility of his desires and his peaceful life would possibly be the first step in freeing himself from his obsession.
He's a tragic character to be sure. Adding to that his tragic flaw being obsession is pretty damning since it's a trait that directly blocks him from accepting the era of Peace.
A small note, the Sword Saint that saved Iori isn’t Musashi. If you look back at the flashback he not only looks pretty different form Musashi, but also only uses one sword. He also always talks about Musashi as “Master” and the Sword Saint as simply “the Sword Saint.” The Codex even has a seperate entry for him that’s just labeled “The Swordsman.” Iori never seeing the Sword Saint again probably made it worse, he was always trying to match his level but he could never test himself against that swordsman. It likely is because of this that his improvement didn’t have an end point, the Sword Saint was probably in his head just “somewhere ahead of me” in swordsmanship to Iori.
Completely went over my head! The fact that Musashi gets brought up at the same time as that event led me to that assumption. And your right that vagueness of Iori's goal could definitely cause his obsession. Thanks for the insight!
@@akiramidousuji3550Considering what we know about Musashi (the real life one i mean) he was quite the bizarre man who pretty much showed up somewhere, see a child that picked his interest and then offer to adopt him. I wouldn't be surprised if in this timeline Iori was living by himself until Musashi met him on one of his travels. This Iori however is kinda special in that he combines the stories of both of Musashi's adoptive sons so who knows really.
I just want to point out that none of the endings of Fate: Samurai Remnant are truly canon. Or perhaps more accurately, they're ALL canon -- merely different results in parallel universes. One can have desire driving them, but put aside those desires for the sake of peace. Iori does that in two of the three "main" endings (not counting the joke ending with Babylon-ia). Honestly, my take is that Iori's drive was twisted further by Musashi's rival, Sasaki Kojiro. Sasaki straight up says, "When fighting a stronger opponent you must not fight them head on." What better way to defeat the undefeatable Musashi than to corrupt his best student, and gentle Iori who Musashi praised before his death: "Iori, you are special; your mind works differently. You possess the flexibility to embrace the new, the humility to revere the old, and the gentleness to yearn for peace. Above all, you sense the rational path forward." So unless we're 1) going to blame Musashi for "corrupting" Iori by praising him, or 2) claim that an old man who has seen an immense measure of fighting doesn't know what he's talking about...Musashi is right. Iori was gentle and kind. But something happened between Musashi's death and the start of the game: Iori's apprenticeship to Sasaki Kojiro. And Iori using Sasaki Kojiro's technique to defeat the female Musashi is more than just fact -- it's symbolic. Sasaki Kojiro didn't fight Musashi head-on. He passed his knowledge (and bloodlust) down to Iori, who defeated Muashi. I think it's important to remember that in two of the three endings, Iori does still protect innocent civilians, sacrifice his desires for peace, and save his sister. He's not a monster, and Sasaki Kojiro's plan falls through more often than it succeeds. But in the universe where it does work, the female Musashi can sense it. She speaks about something being "inside" Iori. He becomes a Sword Demon. So yeah, different Iori's with different outcomes. Good video, by the way!
Interestingly enough, during the Rat ending, if you had completed all of Rogue Saber's digressions, then he will send a letter to Iori talking about the difference between a good Ogre (like Tomoe) and an evil one. This also hints at Iori's darker nature that we see in the Entreat the Darkness ending.
You were really right on that NG+ stuff. As Iori got really good to play in the late game, i really want to see more on how far Iori can go and the NG+ gives me exactly that. His endgame stuff is just nutty and fun to play, really makes you want to challange like the strongest this game can offer. Just seeing how Iori is when you start the game vs in the Entreat the Darkness ending is great, seeing his mask cracked bit by bit as you progress multiple playthrough. Also TM way of reminding that this their game with the Protagonist is not right in the head. I hope the FSR collab with FGO bring him into the game and just expands his character, like on what if Iori “wins” the Waxing Moon in the Entreat the Darkness ending
My god dude that analogy of "You have to be like iori" "Until we witness all of its secret, we are transfixed by it." describes perfectly how i felt having to go through this game like 3 or 4 times (some of it are my fault cause fucking up Rogue Saber's Digressions), nice vid. This game really did make me go crazy from the mind numbing gameplay after first playthrough
I did kinda felt cheated during the Secret Ending I already saw Iori having a dark side from a mile right at the very beginning, especially since I know how Nasu write his main characters Shiki Ryougi, Multiple Personalities disorder, her Origin is killing Shiki Tohno, Nanaya murderuous instincts Shirou Emiya, Survivor Guilt and crazy for Justice While there have been a good numbers of Protagonists who weren't crazy or had an hidden side or mental issue (Ritsuka, Hakuno, Prisma Ilya, Sieg, Erice etc.etc.) knowing the kind of person Nasu is I always expect these kind of things in his stories And I was right, Iori was choosen for apparently no reason, he wasn't a very strong mage nor he seemed having any big goal Yet the Waxing Moon choose him, which like for Shirou and Kirei could only mean he has some deep wish he want to be granted And considering how he soon said "This is an era of peace" and the "You were born in the wrong Era" it wasn't hard to put the dots together My only issue (and this is completly personal) is how I liked "goody two shoes" Iori, I like good people doing good things against evil people and prefer it over problematic people having convoluted reasons to do what they do And I was loving Iori interactions with everyone, so if the story never included that I would have been very happy with just that But that ending got me depressed, especially because of Shosetsu being so disappointed It make You question what was genuine and what was fake Normally I wouldn't be against this, they did the same to Oberon and I was fine with the idea But Iori struck more deeply since he IS the protagonist, not a side character who pretend to be a good guy Iori is still a great character and this is only my personal experience with it, I just would have wished a more happy ending, where maybe he even ends up dealing with those feelings and becoming a better person You can argue the first 2 endings do that but there the problem never get addressed in the first place, I want to see Iori confronting other characters about that issue of his and solving it in a satisfying way
Yeah I see where your coming from. Personally I was pretty dissapointed Iori acknowledges himself as not being kind. His dark side was pretty obvious so I actually spent a good chunk of the game really hoping the "Kind Iori" wasn't fake. So that scene between Saber and Iori in NG+ felt like a punch to the gut. This video actually took longer than I would've liked to write a script for, since when I started writing it I was still holding on to an interpretation of Iori still being a good person. I'm really hoping any story content from the DLC expands on him a little more. Just kinda hoping it reinforces Iori's good points, as I think Iori is more interesting if his lust for battle and efforts to do good are balanced out. Once I feel like I've got a better grasp on Iori's character I'll probably make a more comprehensive character analysis on him. I still don't think all his actions line up with how he describes himself, so I'm still trying to puzzle everything together. Also that bit with Shousetsu in the end almost had me in tears. I really enjoyed her and seeing her dissapointed was painful.
@@crazycrow9999 If it helps Iori sad and shocked reaction when Musashi disappear seem genuine Plus, he refused and never considered again the possibility of joining Zheng in China, which seemed quite the harsh and bloody situation where he could have killed to his heart content He was still "faking it" probably but that's as close as You can get to his wish withouth the Waxing Moon and yet he refused You may even think that he thought his plan was more "peaceful", since in Zheng case it's a conflict between factions of a foreign country where he has no reason to meddle with to which maybe someone don't even really want to take part in but have to because of their job or society The Waxing Moon Ritual is something only few people know, mostly Mages, and it's in general too dangerous for anyone to possess, so techniqually speaking there are less casualities, people who don't really need it or don't know what they're dealing with, and particularly strong and competent people with a greater chance to survive than some random soldier So he maybe did it to satisfy himself and still following the way of peace as far as he could even while accepting his true self Or maybe I'm reading too much into it and he fighting some random Chinese Soldier wasn't enough anymore after dealing with Mages and Servants so he scrapped that idea in favor of a better one I still think it's worth considering anyway how he refused the proposal of joining Zheng forces despite being his best bet even after losing in the Ritual, like, not even a "I will consider it" It's not like that would have exactly sold him out as a "Bloodthirsty Man", just someone who repaid his debt to what You could even call a friend, and it would also help Iori to have more money and who know, maybe he can help Chinese people to attain peace through his "teachings", You know, something as a pretext of doing good He didn't needed to fake it this hard if everything he cared about was being peaceful to understand his opponents, he was probably really trying to deny that life-style
@@crazycrow9999 I mean, Iori himself remarks that kindness and sympathy have their place within him. It's just that he ultimately chooses to discard those things in the NG+ Routes as "excess" when he obtains the Fire Style. I don't think Iori's initial motivations for joining the Waxing Moon Ritual were fake, I do think he genuinely wants to protect the people of Edo. It's just that over the course of the Waxing Moon Ritual, Iori tastes true combat for the first time and can no longer ignore his own desire for conflict to hone his own skills, and has to make a choice between giving up his best chance for fulfillment or continuing his happy, but unfulfilling peaceful life. Like, I don't think Iori's kindness is "fake." It has a selfish aspect to it, in that his kindness aids him in understanding people, and therefore allows him to better understand his enemies so he can kill them. But I don't think Iori secretly hates being kind to people. If Iori could pursue the sword to his heart's content and be kind to the people around him at the same time, I think he would try to do both. I think that's part of Iori's tragedy? In a time of war and conflict, Iori would have been a great hero, due to his kind nature and strength, much like most of the Heroic Spirits he meets during the Waxing Moon Ritual. But he's in an era where his desire to hone his sword skills is ultimately incompatible with the peace the people of Edo have finally obtained. I think it's also important to remember that the Iori in Entreat the Darkness is an Iori that has thrown away everything for the sake of honing his Way of the Sword. It's the most raw, "pure" version of who Iori is, but the mere existence of the other endings show that Iori isn't fated to throw away everything and that he can choose to abandon his desire for the sake of the people of Edo and Kaya.
@@Nothingness4907 I think Iori enjoyed his peaceful lifestyle, but he didn't find it fulfilling. I think the reason why Iori refuses to join Zheng is that even on New Game Plus, Iori can still choose to destroy the Waxing Moon Vessel. That very much implies that Iori was struggling with the decision of what exactly to do with the Waxing Moon up until the moment where you, the player, select the option to make Iori not destroy the Waxing Moon Ritual. Much like how Zheng was also implied to be struggling with his decision to give up on the Waxing Moon Ritual up until the diverging point in the Rat and Snake Routes.
I love this ending, it reminded me why i really like nasuverse characters. The complex blend of dark traits intermixed with positive traits to create a very interesting character This is what made me so attached to iori. Here’s hoping for a samurai remnant 2
What I didn't like is that in entreat the darkness, the wish from the waxing moon could go wrong. Keeping it meant he could answer people's wishes. Yes he always was a killer and the bad ending makes a great possibility of Lori messing up himself in order to be killed. The other endings and some conversations have shown that Lori wanted a life of more and adventure for a big cause. That I got from the game when Musashi and Kiso talked to him is he wanted on one hand. That is what I say A wish can go wrong and destroying a thing to save the world or achieve more with the waxing moon still being. Lori to me wasn't only bad, but like the guy from Hells Paradise, wanted more than swinging a blade, yet he did want to perfect his skill, he also wanted to do great. Musashi meant by he was born in the wrong age was Lori wanted more than Blade hunger and the other endings proved it.
His plan is also outright terrible. Rather than the constant bloodshed he's looking for it'd be more likely to get him assassinated within a year. Given the context of the scene though I'd argue this is Iori acting purely on impulse. It was the moment where the careful balance between Iori's halves was tipped in favor of the insane. If I ever decide to make a full analysis of his character, I might just point out all the times Iori doesn't think things through.
@@crazycrow9999 I argue that his plan was forced to show how taking things in your hands by yourself and not having selflessness can get you screwed. Also Lori does interact with Yamato many times and other characters to prove that "being kind is nothing" is nonsense because he bonded with other characters and goofed around with them genuinely and enjoyed their company always. The thing for the waxing moon is a wish can go wrong and destroying the very thing that can help you get what you want or others to be good is dumb. It is a possibility the wish can go wrong and what the Bad guy, Tshimhara did even if that if someone had a good counsel with the waxing moon, they can use the waxing moon for good. That doesn't mean that Lori is evil for wanting to keep the waxing moon, He could've been trying to give others what they want.
Good stuff. If there's one thing I'd disagree with (and it's arguably more a matter of framing rather than a proper contradiction) it's that I wouldn't call the last fight a matter of "Iori loses because he doesn't understand Saber" so much as "Saber wins because they understand Iori." That aside, I'm honestly left wondering if the game benefits from having multiple routes, or if they were a misstep made because multiple routes are just a thing inherited from the VN ancestory. After all, it's not like Chiemon stealing the Waxing Moon and kidnapping Kaya, Zheng and Caster making their play after Iori kills Chiemon and Iori refusing to destroy the Waxing Moon thus requiring Saber to stop him are mutually exclusive. If anything, if you play it up as Chiemon and Zheng only getting to make their move because Iori hesitates to destroy the Waxing Moon, while at the same time making those fights what really causes Iori to realize that as long as he doesn't destroy it, he gets to keep fighting, it builds very nicely into the ultimate conclusion. I do get what they were trying to do with the alternate endings, but in the end it feels like they subtract from the inevitability of Entreat the Darkness, which is a shame, because that really is the strongest narrative beat for the story to end out on.
I never really thought about it but I can definitely agree that this game having routes is odd. To add to that, with how each route will actively neglect plot threads and character depending on what it wants to depict, I think the structure actively harms the game. Doubly so for the NG+ exclusive digressions. I really can't see the use in hiding character details behind a second playthrough. Especially if you got the Flames of Resentment ending first. Since Jeanne and Chiemon have a lot of context hidden away in the digressions I don't think the ending would have resonated half as hard for me if it weren't for the fact I'd already seen them. And it isn't even like the deciding choice between routes amounts to much either. Events after the split are still largely the same up until the end, with the only real variance being who shows up in cutscenes. The most egregious example probably being Yoshinaka's absence from A ray of light. So yeah in addition to your point the routes just subtract from the narrative in a fairly major way. Definitely a lesser than the sum of it's part situation here. Which considering how much I already adore this game, I can only imagine how a more cohesive version of it would have impacted me.
@@crazycrow9999 This is why I hope the producer of this game gets their wish to come true, this isn't the end of us seeing these characters, and we get a more fleshed-out adaptation of this story distilled from gameplay, VN route elements, as enjoyable as the game was.
I disagree that Entreat the Darkness is inevitable though? It's the path that Iori finds fulfillment, but I don't think he made the choice to not destroy the Waxing Moon without any kind of struggle or deliberation over his final decision. That's why, even on New Game Plus, the game still let's Iori choose to destroy the Waxing Moon, because Iori doesn't make up his mind until that very moment. Like, Iori does actually care about Kaya and the people of Edo. It's just that in the Entreat the Darkness Ending, he chooses to place his own desires above his care for them. I do agree that maybe the Rat and Snake Routes could have been made into a single route though. But the way more of Iori's personality was revealed in a New Game Plus playthrough is something that I would keep.
@@Birthday888 I mean, yeah, the fact other endings exsists means Entreat the Darkness isn't actually inevitable. I'm just questioning whether or not that was for the better and leaning towards feeling that no, the result is worse than what we could have had. Like, I'm genuinely struggling with coming up with a good response here, because you talking about Iori struggling with the decision is completely missing the point. The struggle is good. In fact, I want them to expand on the struggle and really go into how the various stages of the war break down the restraint Iori has that kept him from truely becoming blood lusted this long. I want it to be an actual dedicated arc instead of an arbitrary choice that can go either way. In terms of tragedy "Inevitable" doesn't mean literally the only possible turn of action. It means there theoretical were other options, but the character ends up making the tragic choice because that's who they are. Mind you, if the other endings were better, this wouldn't necessarily be a problem, but they aren't. Straight up, they don't even stand on their own and purposefully end on a dissatisfied note to prime you for Entreat the Darkness. While fixing them up is a nice thought experiment, there's only so much time and resourcess that can go into game development and "take all our resourcess and use them to make our big showstopper ending as good as possible" is a lot closer to what realistically could have been than "how much would it have taken to really pull of the dream of multiple routes."
@@edgedancer4750 "In fact, I want them to expand on the struggle and really go into how the various stages of the war break down the restraint Iori has that kept him from truely becoming blood lusted this long." This is all of the New Game Plus additional scenes though? They all carry a similar theme of people (mostly Saber) watching and understanding Iori, and becoming concerned about how Iori changes over the course of the war? I wouldn't call that an arbitrary decision. ""take all our resourcess and use them to make our big showstopper ending as good as possible" is a lot closer to what realistically could have been than "how much would it have taken to really pull of the dream of multiple routes." What you're describing isn't a problem with resources though? It's entirely about the the plot structure of the game, and so has more to do with how the story was laid out and written than a lack of resources.
I noticed after I finish the game that there's an untranslated voice at the end of Entreat of Darkness ending which stated something like "I want more", hinting that there's another ending coming in future DLC. SO hopium for even more characterization for Iori when they come.
Yep. Even though historically Iori had a mostly successful life and didn't really lose his right to hold and swing the sword which is kinda why Nasu had to leave the implications this is a alternate historical world where what if Iori was denied all that glory he had historically lol
My blade was sated with ending B,, I just wanted that platinum. And suffered from it. Ironic how a "want" actually destroyed me. Crafty writers eh? I hope my joy for the game will come back, but at this point, I'm pretty much in distrust. Thanks for the analysis though: I was so unhappy about Iori's fate I didn't realize he could have been a good guy if that one night never happened (he might have been dead if it didn't happen though) That said, I'm still confused how his kindness was the reason why Musashi failed, when Musashi also lamented Iori was born in the wrong era, while he himself admits Nitenichiryu is a philosophy to ensure peace, no matter if it involves swordsmanship or not... Was he trying to shape Iori into a killer and in ending C he actually succeeded, or was he trying to make him a honest blade master who can live by the blade without seeking bloodshed?
Honestly I want to make a more comprehensive analysis over Iori, but I'm holding off to see if the DLC's for the game add anymore context to his character. I'm also still trying to figure Musashi's comments about Iori out. Both versions seem aware of Iori's darkness, but don't seem aware of it at the same time. The writing is solid in the game so I think it's intentional, but figuring out the meaning behind the contradiction has been difficult.
@@crazycrow9999 Musashi is absolutely aware of Iori's darkness because it's a darkness that exists in everyone that follows the Way of the Sword. Musashi would have been in the exact same position as Iori if their positions were reversed, except the difference is that Musashi wouldn't have been conflicted over their desire for conflict/violence unlike Iori. This is partly why Musashi laments that Iori is too kind and somewhat regrets teaching Iori, because as time went by and the era became more peaceful, it became clear to Musashi that Iori couldn't pursue the Way of the Sword in a peaceful era without needing to discard parts of who he was. That's why he remarks that teaching Iori the Way of the sword ultimately brought Iori suffering. "Was he trying to shape Iori into a killer and in ending C he actually succeeded, or was he trying to make him a honest blade master who can live by the blade without seeking bloodshed?" This is sort of a misunderstanding on the nature of swordsmen? All swordsmen are killers. Musashi is a killer. A good chunk of the warrior Heroic Spirits you meet in the game (Arjuna, Cu, Li Shuwen) are killers. It's just that they were born in eras where bloodshed and violence were common enough to where they could enjoy fights and polish their skills without needing to disrupt the peace or hurt innocent people. That's part of Iori's tragedy. That if he had been born in an era rife with violence or conflict, like Musashi had, he would have become a great hero because he wouldn't need to abandon his kindness to hone his skills and wouldn't have to resort to the Waxing Moon Ritual to find fulfillment in his life.
I still think the good ending was the main one considering saber was summoned for a serial killer who was trying to follow the way of peace. Yamato might have been summoned to show iori the good in other people and in himself which is worth protecting. Iori being a protector in the end makes more sense because even though his wish isn’t fulfilled, kaya and people who he started to care for, though he might deny, were all safe and his best friend left him a great adventure to reminisce on full of good deeds should he falter from being peaceful. So hoping iori’s true wish was to be shown what he needed and not what he wanted.
Great Video, but (at 7:50) I think Iori doesn't per se want an era of bloodshed. I think he knew when he took the Waxing Moon that Saber would fight an all-out battle against him I mean lets do not forget if Ioris goal really was wining (and granting his wish) that fight by any means necessary he could used his command spell so saber would commit suicide. I really think he wanted to beat Saber in a swordfight to death and for him it would be a good outcome to win or to lose since in both cases he wouldve either surpassed the greates swordfighter he ever saw or died to his blade with his ideals still intact. I hope I wrote it somewhat comprehensive since English isnt my first language. Much love to you my dude
Thanks for watching! I hadn't looked at it that way, but Iori baiting Saber into the situation feels like a very Musashi thing to do. No worries about comprehension, your comment is pretty well written!
Honestly, i looked up the ending a little bit online and i was a little put off at first. Like, another alternate ending that forces the character to do a complete 180 in personality? No thanks. But then i made the decision to platinum the game, and im glad i prefer this ending the best now
To be honest, I do hate the bad ending, and I just hated how the whole story just couldn’t let iori actually be a good guy, and what hurts is that this was the first fate game that I was able to play that wasn’t fgo. so it hurts that I had to play as him since I eventually feel guilty, especially for his little sister. And it Feels worse since I love his play style more than all of the other characters, like I was the person who was fighting, so it feels like I’m going against my nature playing I hate people who are like him, and feel like I’m going against who I am.
That's entirely fair. If I didn't find the writing as fascinating as I did I'd probably feel similarly since I don't really like Iori's mentality. Doing things the way they did is definitely risky since it can be so alienating to the player and it took a bit for me to appreciate the reasoning behind it. It sucks that it soured your experience and I hope whatever fate game you end up playing next goes better for you
Shame you not inputting Li Shuwen in your analysis. He's basically Dark Iori but get too strong to be killed and meet disgraceful end by poisoned to death
A lot of people kept saying it's a bad ending, but for me this is the best ending, Iori got to live true to himself and die pursuing his craft, he also got a friend too. What could be more beautiful of an ending for a man who spend his entire life pursuing his craft?
I think all the endings are pretty good, and while this one isn't my favorite I like your way of looking at it. For me it's feels kinda sad that Iori felt the need to go this far, but I still think he's an amazing character. Wouldn't have made this video and be planning another (that won't be releasing for a loooong time) if I didn't like him. I also feel bad for Saber and Kaya in this ending. Saber looks more pained then Iori in that final scene between them, and Kaya is probably mostly in the dark and has no clue why her brother is dead.
I think I like the NG+ normal endings more than the NG+ ending.
I like to imagine that after destroying the grail, Iori settled with the waxing moon ritual as being the most of how much he'll be able to push his craft further, and chose to not throw his peaceful life with Kaya away to change that.
He was born in the wrong era, but there's nothing that can be done to fix that. It's painful, but it's the "Iori who wishes to do what's right" winning over the "Iori who wishes to be the best swordsman". It's his humanity winning over his will to dominate the way of the sword. His blade remains unsated, but he accepts to leave it as is.
Probably the best ending he could've gotten for himself, but it probably sucks to be Kaya in that situation.
Just by his very nature a perfectly happy ending for everyone was never possible though, which is the tragedy of it all.
In the more normal timelines he just wound up a retainer for Kaya's household rather than burning his life away, it's kind of a moral conundrum as to whether maximizing happiness for your surroundings at the expense of your not being perfectly satisfied is the correct choice. Either way, being Iori sucks.
My favorite ending is personally "A Ray of Light" since it's overall the happiest ending of the cast. And while Iori feels the most content in the NG+ ending, It's worth noting that it's far from impossible that he never finds contentment with a peaceful life. Accepting the pain of the incompatibility of his desires and his peaceful life would possibly be the first step in freeing himself from his obsession.
He's a tragic character to be sure. Adding to that his tragic flaw being obsession is pretty damning since it's a trait that directly blocks him from accepting the era of Peace.
A small note, the Sword Saint that saved Iori isn’t Musashi. If you look back at the flashback he not only looks pretty different form Musashi, but also only uses one sword. He also always talks about Musashi as “Master” and the Sword Saint as simply “the Sword Saint.” The Codex even has a seperate entry for him that’s just labeled “The Swordsman.”
Iori never seeing the Sword Saint again probably made it worse, he was always trying to match his level but he could never test himself against that swordsman. It likely is because of this that his improvement didn’t have an end point, the Sword Saint was probably in his head just “somewhere ahead of me” in swordsmanship to Iori.
Completely went over my head! The fact that Musashi gets brought up at the same time as that event led me to that assumption. And your right that vagueness of Iori's goal could definitely cause his obsession. Thanks for the insight!
It's implied (but not explicitly stated) that the sword saint in question was Yagyu Munenori
@@hjt091 i'm confused then as to when musashi actually shows up in his life, how did he end up with his last name!?
@@akiramidousuji3550Considering what we know about Musashi (the real life one i mean) he was quite the bizarre man who pretty much showed up somewhere, see a child that picked his interest and then offer to adopt him. I wouldn't be surprised if in this timeline Iori was living by himself until Musashi met him on one of his travels. This Iori however is kinda special in that he combines the stories of both of Musashi's adoptive sons so who knows really.
@@hjt091i thought the saint was Saber as an old man? Im pretty sure there’s a voice-line where saber says something like “So it was YOU that night.”
I just want to point out that none of the endings of Fate: Samurai Remnant are truly canon. Or perhaps more accurately, they're ALL canon -- merely different results in parallel universes.
One can have desire driving them, but put aside those desires for the sake of peace. Iori does that in two of the three "main" endings (not counting the joke ending with Babylon-ia).
Honestly, my take is that Iori's drive was twisted further by Musashi's rival, Sasaki Kojiro.
Sasaki straight up says, "When fighting a stronger opponent you must not fight them head on." What better way to defeat the undefeatable Musashi than to corrupt his best student, and gentle Iori who Musashi praised before his death:
"Iori, you are special; your mind works differently. You possess the flexibility to embrace the new, the humility to revere the old, and the gentleness to yearn for peace. Above all, you sense the rational path forward."
So unless we're 1) going to blame Musashi for "corrupting" Iori by praising him, or 2) claim that an old man who has seen an immense measure of fighting doesn't know what he's talking about...Musashi is right. Iori was gentle and kind.
But something happened between Musashi's death and the start of the game: Iori's apprenticeship to Sasaki Kojiro. And Iori using Sasaki Kojiro's technique to defeat the female Musashi is more than just fact -- it's symbolic. Sasaki Kojiro didn't fight Musashi head-on. He passed his knowledge (and bloodlust) down to Iori, who defeated Muashi.
I think it's important to remember that in two of the three endings, Iori does still protect innocent civilians, sacrifice his desires for peace, and save his sister. He's not a monster, and Sasaki Kojiro's plan falls through more often than it succeeds. But in the universe where it does work, the female Musashi can sense it. She speaks about something being "inside" Iori. He becomes a Sword Demon.
So yeah, different Iori's with different outcomes. Good video, by the way!
As someone that recently finished the game 3 times I had a hard feeling satisfied with the endings. This video helped with that
Glad I could help ya see a new perspective!
Interestingly enough, during the Rat ending, if you had completed all of Rogue Saber's digressions, then he will send a letter to Iori talking about the difference between a good Ogre (like Tomoe) and an evil one. This also hints at Iori's darker nature that we see in the Entreat the Darkness ending.
You were really right on that NG+ stuff. As Iori got really good to play in the late game, i really want to see more on how far Iori can go and the NG+ gives me exactly that. His endgame stuff is just nutty and fun to play, really makes you want to challange like the strongest this game can offer.
Just seeing how Iori is when you start the game vs in the Entreat the Darkness ending is great, seeing his mask cracked bit by bit as you progress multiple playthrough. Also TM way of reminding that this their game with the Protagonist is not right in the head.
I hope the FSR collab with FGO bring him into the game and just expands his character, like on what if Iori “wins” the Waxing Moon in the Entreat the Darkness ending
Someone got that Clarvoyance EX
My god dude that analogy of "You have to be like iori" "Until we witness all of its secret, we are transfixed by it." describes perfectly how i felt having to go through this game like 3 or 4 times (some of it are my fault cause fucking up Rogue Saber's Digressions), nice vid. This game really did make me go crazy from the mind numbing gameplay after first playthrough
I did kinda felt cheated during the Secret Ending
I already saw Iori having a dark side from a mile right at the very beginning, especially since I know how Nasu write his main characters
Shiki Ryougi, Multiple Personalities disorder, her Origin is killing
Shiki Tohno, Nanaya murderuous instincts
Shirou Emiya, Survivor Guilt and crazy for Justice
While there have been a good numbers of Protagonists who weren't crazy or had an hidden side or mental issue (Ritsuka, Hakuno, Prisma Ilya, Sieg, Erice etc.etc.) knowing the kind of person Nasu is I always expect these kind of things in his stories
And I was right, Iori was choosen for apparently no reason, he wasn't a very strong mage nor he seemed having any big goal
Yet the Waxing Moon choose him, which like for Shirou and Kirei could only mean he has some deep wish he want to be granted
And considering how he soon said "This is an era of peace" and the "You were born in the wrong Era" it wasn't hard to put the dots together
My only issue (and this is completly personal) is how I liked "goody two shoes" Iori, I like good people doing good things against evil people and prefer it over problematic people having convoluted reasons to do what they do
And I was loving Iori interactions with everyone, so if the story never included that I would have been very happy with just that
But that ending got me depressed, especially because of Shosetsu being so disappointed
It make You question what was genuine and what was fake
Normally I wouldn't be against this, they did the same to Oberon and I was fine with the idea
But Iori struck more deeply since he IS the protagonist, not a side character who pretend to be a good guy
Iori is still a great character and this is only my personal experience with it, I just would have wished a more happy ending, where maybe he even ends up dealing with those feelings and becoming a better person
You can argue the first 2 endings do that but there the problem never get addressed in the first place, I want to see Iori confronting other characters about that issue of his and solving it in a satisfying way
Yeah I see where your coming from. Personally I was pretty dissapointed Iori acknowledges himself as not being kind. His dark side was pretty obvious so I actually spent a good chunk of the game really hoping the "Kind Iori" wasn't fake. So that scene between Saber and Iori in NG+ felt like a punch to the gut. This video actually took longer than I would've liked to write a script for, since when I started writing it I was still holding on to an interpretation of Iori still being a good person.
I'm really hoping any story content from the DLC expands on him a little more. Just kinda hoping it reinforces Iori's good points, as I think Iori is more interesting if his lust for battle and efforts to do good are balanced out.
Once I feel like I've got a better grasp on Iori's character I'll probably make a more comprehensive character analysis on him. I still don't think all his actions line up with how he describes himself, so I'm still trying to puzzle everything together.
Also that bit with Shousetsu in the end almost had me in tears. I really enjoyed her and seeing her dissapointed was painful.
@@crazycrow9999 If it helps Iori sad and shocked reaction when Musashi disappear seem genuine
Plus, he refused and never considered again the possibility of joining Zheng in China, which seemed quite the harsh and bloody situation where he could have killed to his heart content
He was still "faking it" probably but that's as close as You can get to his wish withouth the Waxing Moon and yet he refused
You may even think that he thought his plan was more "peaceful", since in Zheng case it's a conflict between factions of a foreign country where he has no reason to meddle with to which maybe someone don't even really want to take part in but have to because of their job or society
The Waxing Moon Ritual is something only few people know, mostly Mages, and it's in general too dangerous for anyone to possess, so techniqually speaking there are less casualities, people who don't really need it or don't know what they're dealing with, and particularly strong and competent people with a greater chance to survive than some random soldier
So he maybe did it to satisfy himself and still following the way of peace as far as he could even while accepting his true self
Or maybe I'm reading too much into it and he fighting some random Chinese Soldier wasn't enough anymore after dealing with Mages and Servants so he scrapped that idea in favor of a better one
I still think it's worth considering anyway how he refused the proposal of joining Zheng forces despite being his best bet even after losing in the Ritual, like, not even a "I will consider it"
It's not like that would have exactly sold him out as a "Bloodthirsty Man", just someone who repaid his debt to what You could even call a friend, and it would also help Iori to have more money and who know, maybe he can help Chinese people to attain peace through his "teachings", You know, something as a pretext of doing good
He didn't needed to fake it this hard if everything he cared about was being peaceful to understand his opponents, he was probably really trying to deny that life-style
@@crazycrow9999 I mean, Iori himself remarks that kindness and sympathy have their place within him. It's just that he ultimately chooses to discard those things in the NG+ Routes as "excess" when he obtains the Fire Style. I don't think Iori's initial motivations for joining the Waxing Moon Ritual were fake, I do think he genuinely wants to protect the people of Edo. It's just that over the course of the Waxing Moon Ritual, Iori tastes true combat for the first time and can no longer ignore his own desire for conflict to hone his own skills, and has to make a choice between giving up his best chance for fulfillment or continuing his happy, but unfulfilling peaceful life.
Like, I don't think Iori's kindness is "fake." It has a selfish aspect to it, in that his kindness aids him in understanding people, and therefore allows him to better understand his enemies so he can kill them. But I don't think Iori secretly hates being kind to people. If Iori could pursue the sword to his heart's content and be kind to the people around him at the same time, I think he would try to do both.
I think that's part of Iori's tragedy? In a time of war and conflict, Iori would have been a great hero, due to his kind nature and strength, much like most of the Heroic Spirits he meets during the Waxing Moon Ritual. But he's in an era where his desire to hone his sword skills is ultimately incompatible with the peace the people of Edo have finally obtained.
I think it's also important to remember that the Iori in Entreat the Darkness is an Iori that has thrown away everything for the sake of honing his Way of the Sword. It's the most raw, "pure" version of who Iori is, but the mere existence of the other endings show that Iori isn't fated to throw away everything and that he can choose to abandon his desire for the sake of the people of Edo and Kaya.
@@Nothingness4907 I think Iori enjoyed his peaceful lifestyle, but he didn't find it fulfilling. I think the reason why Iori refuses to join Zheng is that even on New Game Plus, Iori can still choose to destroy the Waxing Moon Vessel. That very much implies that Iori was struggling with the decision of what exactly to do with the Waxing Moon up until the moment where you, the player, select the option to make Iori not destroy the Waxing Moon Ritual.
Much like how Zheng was also implied to be struggling with his decision to give up on the Waxing Moon Ritual up until the diverging point in the Rat and Snake Routes.
I love this ending, it reminded me why i really like nasuverse characters.
The complex blend of dark traits intermixed with positive traits to create a very interesting character
This is what made me so attached to iori.
Here’s hoping for a samurai remnant 2
I was caught off guard by how well written Samurai Remnant was. Some of my favorite characters in the franchise are in here
What I didn't like is that in entreat the darkness, the wish from the waxing moon could go wrong. Keeping it meant he could answer people's wishes. Yes he always was a killer and the bad ending makes a great possibility of Lori messing up himself in order to be killed. The other endings and some conversations have shown that Lori wanted a life of more and adventure for a big cause. That I got from the game when Musashi and Kiso talked to him is he wanted on one hand. That is what I say A wish can go wrong and destroying a thing to save the world or achieve more with the waxing moon still being. Lori to me wasn't only bad, but like the guy from Hells Paradise, wanted more than swinging a blade, yet he did want to perfect his skill, he also wanted to do great. Musashi meant by he was born in the wrong age was Lori wanted more than Blade hunger and the other endings proved it.
His plan is also outright terrible. Rather than the constant bloodshed he's looking for it'd be more likely to get him assassinated within a year. Given the context of the scene though I'd argue this is Iori acting purely on impulse. It was the moment where the careful balance between Iori's halves was tipped in favor of the insane. If I ever decide to make a full analysis of his character, I might just point out all the times Iori doesn't think things through.
@@crazycrow9999 I argue that his plan was forced to show how taking things in your hands by yourself and not having selflessness can get you screwed. Also Lori does interact with Yamato many times and other characters to prove that "being kind is nothing" is nonsense because he bonded with other characters and goofed around with them genuinely and enjoyed their company always. The thing for the waxing moon is a wish can go wrong and destroying the very thing that can help you get what you want or others to be good is dumb. It is a possibility the wish can go wrong and what the Bad guy, Tshimhara did even if that if someone had a good counsel with the waxing moon, they can use the waxing moon for good. That doesn't mean that Lori is evil for wanting to keep the waxing moon, He could've been trying to give others what they want.
Good stuff. If there's one thing I'd disagree with (and it's arguably more a matter of framing rather than a proper contradiction) it's that I wouldn't call the last fight a matter of "Iori loses because he doesn't understand Saber" so much as "Saber wins because they understand Iori."
That aside, I'm honestly left wondering if the game benefits from having multiple routes, or if they were a misstep made because multiple routes are just a thing inherited from the VN ancestory. After all, it's not like Chiemon stealing the Waxing Moon and kidnapping Kaya, Zheng and Caster making their play after Iori kills Chiemon and Iori refusing to destroy the Waxing Moon thus requiring Saber to stop him are mutually exclusive. If anything, if you play it up as Chiemon and Zheng only getting to make their move because Iori hesitates to destroy the Waxing Moon, while at the same time making those fights what really causes Iori to realize that as long as he doesn't destroy it, he gets to keep fighting, it builds very nicely into the ultimate conclusion.
I do get what they were trying to do with the alternate endings, but in the end it feels like they subtract from the inevitability of Entreat the Darkness, which is a shame, because that really is the strongest narrative beat for the story to end out on.
I never really thought about it but I can definitely agree that this game having routes is odd. To add to that, with how each route will actively neglect plot threads and character depending on what it wants to depict, I think the structure actively harms the game. Doubly so for the NG+ exclusive digressions. I really can't see the use in hiding character details behind a second playthrough. Especially if you got the Flames of Resentment ending first. Since Jeanne and Chiemon have a lot of context hidden away in the digressions I don't think the ending would have resonated half as hard for me if it weren't for the fact I'd already seen them.
And it isn't even like the deciding choice between routes amounts to much either. Events after the split are still largely the same up until the end, with the only real variance being who shows up in cutscenes. The most egregious example probably being Yoshinaka's absence from A ray of light.
So yeah in addition to your point the routes just subtract from the narrative in a fairly major way. Definitely a lesser than the sum of it's part situation here. Which considering how much I already adore this game, I can only imagine how a more cohesive version of it would have impacted me.
@@crazycrow9999 This is why I hope the producer of this game gets their wish to come true, this isn't the end of us seeing these characters, and we get a more fleshed-out adaptation of this story distilled from gameplay, VN route elements, as enjoyable as the game was.
I disagree that Entreat the Darkness is inevitable though? It's the path that Iori finds fulfillment, but I don't think he made the choice to not destroy the Waxing Moon without any kind of struggle or deliberation over his final decision. That's why, even on New Game Plus, the game still let's Iori choose to destroy the Waxing Moon, because Iori doesn't make up his mind until that very moment. Like, Iori does actually care about Kaya and the people of Edo. It's just that in the Entreat the Darkness Ending, he chooses to place his own desires above his care for them.
I do agree that maybe the Rat and Snake Routes could have been made into a single route though. But the way more of Iori's personality was revealed in a New Game Plus playthrough is something that I would keep.
@@Birthday888 I mean, yeah, the fact other endings exsists means Entreat the Darkness isn't actually inevitable. I'm just questioning whether or not that was for the better and leaning towards feeling that no, the result is worse than what we could have had.
Like, I'm genuinely struggling with coming up with a good response here, because you talking about Iori struggling with the decision is completely missing the point. The struggle is good. In fact, I want them to expand on the struggle and really go into how the various stages of the war break down the restraint Iori has that kept him from truely becoming blood lusted this long. I want it to be an actual dedicated arc instead of an arbitrary choice that can go either way.
In terms of tragedy "Inevitable" doesn't mean literally the only possible turn of action. It means there theoretical were other options, but the character ends up making the tragic choice because that's who they are.
Mind you, if the other endings were better, this wouldn't necessarily be a problem, but they aren't. Straight up, they don't even stand on their own and purposefully end on a dissatisfied note to prime you for Entreat the Darkness. While fixing them up is a nice thought experiment, there's only so much time and resourcess that can go into game development and "take all our resourcess and use them to make our big showstopper ending as good as possible" is a lot closer to what realistically could have been than "how much would it have taken to really pull of the dream of multiple routes."
@@edgedancer4750 "In fact, I want them to expand on the struggle and really go into how the various stages of the war break down the restraint Iori has that kept him from truely becoming blood lusted this long."
This is all of the New Game Plus additional scenes though? They all carry a similar theme of people (mostly Saber) watching and understanding Iori, and becoming concerned about how Iori changes over the course of the war? I wouldn't call that an arbitrary decision.
""take all our resourcess and use them to make our big showstopper ending as good as possible" is a lot closer to what realistically could have been than "how much would it have taken to really pull of the dream of multiple routes."
What you're describing isn't a problem with resources though? It's entirely about the the plot structure of the game, and so has more to do with how the story was laid out and written than a lack of resources.
I noticed after I finish the game that there's an untranslated voice at the end of Entreat of Darkness ending which stated something like "I want more", hinting that there's another ending coming in future DLC. SO hopium for even more characterization for Iori when they come.
Yep. Even though historically Iori had a mostly successful life and didn't really lose his right to hold and swing the sword which is kinda why Nasu had to leave the implications this is a alternate historical world where what if Iori was denied all that glory he had historically lol
Didn't expect a Shura ending. I'm gonna be stuck with this boss for quite sometime.
My blade was sated with ending B,, I just wanted that platinum. And suffered from it. Ironic how a "want" actually destroyed me. Crafty writers eh?
I hope my joy for the game will come back, but at this point, I'm pretty much in distrust. Thanks for the analysis though: I was so unhappy about Iori's fate I didn't realize he could have been a good guy if that one night never happened (he might have been dead if it didn't happen though)
That said, I'm still confused how his kindness was the reason why Musashi failed, when Musashi also lamented Iori was born in the wrong era, while he himself admits Nitenichiryu is a philosophy to ensure peace, no matter if it involves swordsmanship or not... Was he trying to shape Iori into a killer and in ending C he actually succeeded, or was he trying to make him a honest blade master who can live by the blade without seeking bloodshed?
Honestly I want to make a more comprehensive analysis over Iori, but I'm holding off to see if the DLC's for the game add anymore context to his character. I'm also still trying to figure Musashi's comments about Iori out. Both versions seem aware of Iori's darkness, but don't seem aware of it at the same time. The writing is solid in the game so I think it's intentional, but figuring out the meaning behind the contradiction has been difficult.
@@crazycrow9999 Musashi is absolutely aware of Iori's darkness because it's a darkness that exists in everyone that follows the Way of the Sword. Musashi would have been in the exact same position as Iori if their positions were reversed, except the difference is that Musashi wouldn't have been conflicted over their desire for conflict/violence unlike Iori.
This is partly why Musashi laments that Iori is too kind and somewhat regrets teaching Iori, because as time went by and the era became more peaceful, it became clear to Musashi that Iori couldn't pursue the Way of the Sword in a peaceful era without needing to discard parts of who he was. That's why he remarks that teaching Iori the Way of the sword ultimately brought Iori suffering.
"Was he trying to shape Iori into a killer and in ending C he actually succeeded, or was he trying to make him a honest blade master who can live by the blade without seeking bloodshed?"
This is sort of a misunderstanding on the nature of swordsmen? All swordsmen are killers. Musashi is a killer. A good chunk of the warrior Heroic Spirits you meet in the game (Arjuna, Cu, Li Shuwen) are killers. It's just that they were born in eras where bloodshed and violence were common enough to where they could enjoy fights and polish their skills without needing to disrupt the peace or hurt innocent people.
That's part of Iori's tragedy. That if he had been born in an era rife with violence or conflict, like Musashi had, he would have become a great hero because he wouldn't need to abandon his kindness to hone his skills and wouldn't have to resort to the Waxing Moon Ritual to find fulfillment in his life.
Awesome stuff dude. You just got another subscriber!
Glad ya enjoyed, and thanks for the support!
I still think the good ending was the main one considering saber was summoned for a serial killer who was trying to follow the way of peace. Yamato might have been summoned to show iori the good in other people and in himself which is worth protecting. Iori being a protector in the end makes more sense because even though his wish isn’t fulfilled, kaya and people who he started to care for, though he might deny, were all safe and his best friend left him a great adventure to reminisce on full of good deeds should he falter from being peaceful. So hoping iori’s true wish was to be shown what he needed and not what he wanted.
5:48 at this point... I really thought he was gonna say, I choose... VIOLENCE
Nice video man
Thanks, glad you enjoyed!
Great Video, but (at 7:50) I think Iori doesn't per se want an era of bloodshed. I think he knew when he took the Waxing Moon that Saber would fight an all-out battle against him I mean lets do not forget if Ioris goal really was wining (and granting his wish) that fight by any means necessary he could used his command spell so saber would commit suicide. I really think he wanted to beat Saber in a swordfight to death and for him it would be a good outcome to win or to lose since in both cases he wouldve either surpassed the greates swordfighter he ever saw or died to his blade with his ideals still intact.
I hope I wrote it somewhat comprehensive since English isnt my first language. Much love to you my dude
Thanks for watching! I hadn't looked at it that way, but Iori baiting Saber into the situation feels like a very Musashi thing to do.
No worries about comprehension, your comment is pretty well written!
Honestly, i looked up the ending a little bit online and i was a little put off at first. Like, another alternate ending that forces the character to do a complete 180 in personality? No thanks.
But then i made the decision to platinum the game, and im glad i prefer this ending the best now
To be honest, I do hate the bad ending, and I just hated how the whole story just couldn’t let iori actually be a good guy, and what hurts is that this was the first fate game that I was able to play that wasn’t fgo. so it hurts that I had to play as him since I eventually feel guilty, especially for his little sister. And it Feels worse since I love his play style more than all of the other characters, like I was the person who was fighting, so it feels like I’m going against my nature playing I hate people who are like him, and feel like I’m going against who I am.
That's entirely fair. If I didn't find the writing as fascinating as I did I'd probably feel similarly since I don't really like Iori's mentality. Doing things the way they did is definitely risky since it can be so alienating to the player and it took a bit for me to appreciate the reasoning behind it. It sucks that it soured your experience and I hope whatever fate game you end up playing next goes better for you
Shame you not inputting Li Shuwen in your analysis. He's basically Dark Iori but get too strong to be killed and meet disgraceful end by poisoned to death
Idk why ppl consider this a bad ending
This is the best ending he became a savant (an immortal swordsman who fights other sevants on a reg)
Wtf