Yours is the only channel from which i see myself building a green house . I am planning to make a green house for our nee house so we could have food year round .
Thank you for the video, we went and saw the" green house in the snow" in Nebraska. We are thinking of getting one for our off grid build in Wyoming but wanted to see someone else actually using the system looks like you have the new design and are looking forward to more videos.
Yes. Definitely a Russ Finch flavor to it. But I think (maybe) Russ does it with lower-wattage fans. This guy's got some heavy-duty squirrel-cage action going on. The corrugations probably help the heat exchange, but may hinder laminar air flow, so that it takes more power to move the air through the corrugated pipes than maybe you want. I'm not sure I like East and West not getting any sun, but the idea is to make these structures very long, so the shade only affects the East and West ends of the structure. I think I'd try to get down closer to 8 feet in the ground. Every bit of earth I took out of the ground would be part of the eventual 8 feet I want the floor to be under ground. This guy was apparently unaware of how close his structure was to the water table. If it's 10 1/2 inches below the East end of your structure, you're just asking for trouble from the next 20-year flood. Needed to map out where the water wants to go, and may have to, to keep his feet dry.
This is very well done please continue to update with successes and/or failures the information is valuable. I am trying to engineer a system for the desert.
You should tie in your heating ground air loop in to your cooling thermostat as a first stage cooling. It will then help heat the ground on hot days, returning cool air, so that there may be better warm air when you need heating. The big air fan for cooling should be second stage set maybe 5 degrees warmer. The more heat you put into the ground in summer, the more available heat you may have in the winter. Easiest way to accomplish this is to add another thermostat in parallel to the heating thermostat, but wired so that it turns the fan on when it gets too warm.
I'd operate in different modes, seasonally. I'd draw air off the top and pump it under my beds to warm up the soil on a winter day. But in the summer? I'm just pumping that hot air straight out and bringing fresh air in through my buried pipes at 52 degrees. I think I'd make a loop around the yard and back to the house, for the air inlet, to keep it close to the house. If your pipes are unperforated, you might actually get a boost in performance from being in contact with groundwater, because it would PHYSICALLY transport the heat away from the buried pipe. I think heat exchange with ground water in that fashion would be far greater than the heat exchange from contact with the soil. In the winter, there'd be some advantage to having a static water reservoir that you pumped heat into during the day and drew heat from during the night. Maybe for winter mode, you have some pipes that run through an underground pond you built. All it would take would be an excavator and some of that insta-crete stuff they use to make drainage ditches and temporary shelters by laying it out and then soaking it with water. You could put your pipes through such a bowl and have your underground heat sink, and just tap into it with air tubes that run through it.
Maybe I missed it, but shouldn't you be running the main geothermal fan during both day and night? During the night it has the function as you mentioned in the video, to pull warmth from the ground up into the greenhouse, but during the day the opposite is true. Pushing the warm air (you mentioned it could get up to 100° during the day) into the ground will allow you to store that warmth and use the ground as a sort of battery, storing warmth during the day and drawing it back out at night.
Thanks for the update, did you show how you placed the pipes under ground in a prior video? I was a bit concerned about the soil quality when you get down 6-8 feet for pipe placement and if you stack the pipes or you had to dig 12 separate trenches etc. Thanks
That underground water might be useful for encouraging your tree roots to go deep. Unless prolonged exposure would cause them to be waterlogged and rot.
Thank you for documenting everything for people to learn from! Just a few questions for you, are the geothermal pipes perforated or solid ? and if they are perforated how do you keep that ground water out of them? And what depth are those geothermal pipes that run in the yard? Thank you again for sharing your experience!
Great information, thank you for sharing. can you explain the differences in heating and cooling. the heating is a seperate system than the cooling? can you heat and cool using the same 12 tubes?
yes, you can heat and cool using same tubes. You are just using the ground temperature to heat in winter and cool in summer. Sorry for late reply. Just saw this.
If you supplement with those same black pipes running under a large pile of wood chips decomposing. Then you would get 100+ degree air coming out instead of 57 degrees.
@@trailbreakfarms It takes some work to replenish the mulch when depleted but the resulting composted mulch is great for gardens. I think if setup correctly and timed right you would last over winter. I hope to put the idea into practice this year for next winter.
Can you please provide the make and model numbers of the fans and blowers. This green house looks great. I am looking to build one and help a friend to build one. Do you have any plans you followed?
It looks like a great system. I live in the Central Oregon Cascades and we normally have 24 to 48 inches of snow pack most of the winter. It looks to me that I would have to plow the snow away from a sunken greenhouse to keep the glazing exposed to sun light. What was your experience?
sorry, just saw this. Snow comes off the GH almost immediately. I've never had to remove it. I've never had to remove from around perimeter, either. Hoping for more snow!
just found your channel , i love the thought and for lack of a less crunchy term mindfulness, the use of the ladybugs to deal with your aphid problem is wonderful! have you had any issues with white flys? and do you have a predator insect recommendation?
sorry, just saw this. yes we have white flys too. I spray using a Neem Oil/water mix every other week. That helps. Lady Bugs are my favorite for dealing with Aphids/White Flys.
I purchased the Greenhouse in the snow $50 booklet for Russ. I understand everything but the tube metal portion. Can you please explain how and where you came up with the metal tube dimensions. Do you have shop drawings or cad drawings?
Sorry, Rashad. Just saw this comment. I don't have drawings. I took what Russ gave me and tried to figure it out from there. I started this Channel to try to reach out to others because it wasn't enough info to figure everything out. Got lots of input from youtube. Found others. We are a Village. Stronger together.
Could you circulate excess hot air through the long ground heat pipes when the temperature rises above 80 to cool the greenhouse and heat the ground that you will be drawing heat from at night? You might be able to draw hot air from the greenhouse during the day and cool air from the floor at night.
Since you mention this is a zone 10 greenhouse, have you measured the temperature in the ground where you will be planting tropicals? Are you going to try bananas? I have a regular greenhouse- and I take the plants out in the late spring(Kansas City) My issue is getting the heat down to the ground where the roots are. Citrus can handle cool temps but bananas stop growing around 55F. They really need heat in the rootzone.
sorry, just saw this. Yes we are trying Bananas. My ground temperature maintains 60 and above in winter. But Bananas don't grow much unless its warmer. Likely 65 and above.
Why is your hot air exiting through the pipes? At about 5:30 you show this. If you are just dumping hot air, why are you paying to do it, that is you are using extra energy to push the hot air down and through pipes. and I was just wondering if that is the only solution? It would be good to have vents alone the ceiling which would be the natural spot to vent hot air.
sorry, just saw this. We have pipes the hot air over to our Shop building so we aren't wasting it. Best idea would be to put a vent at the peak and pipe it below GH for thermal mass during night in winter. But have an exchanger so you can push it outside during summer.
I’m in Vernal and interested in this method. Funnily enough Alliance, NE is only 1.5 hours away from where my husband’s whole family is from ❤️ would you be up for a visitor to come check it out in person?
how will you keep the mango tree below 15 feet? I would love to grow a mango tree here in Asheville. Im from Florida and had 4 trees in the back yard. Looking at building something like what you have in a year so O have a zillion questions.
When u excavated did u not have water in the ground and how did u get rid of water 💧 l. Here in Russia if I dig 4 foot deep they will fill up with water, what to do
yes, we hit underground water in our trenches but kept GH above the water. I would keep GH above the water and find fill material to build up around perimeter of your GH. You want as much insulation as possible on anything that isn't a window or door. Good luck and keep us posted!
It wasn't cheap. I don't currently have plans to monetize this Greenhouse. It could definitely be done. I've have many opportunities fall into my lap but my current interest is to get educated and healthy (both are priceless). Over time, I will monetize it.
Wouldn't you be better off when cooling the greenhouse during "winter" to just circulate the hot air through your 275 ft of geothermal heating pipes? Wouldn't the hot air just come out around 56F? Also, wouldn't the hot air that is circulated in the geothermal heat some of the ground then release it at night?
yes. Using the Geothermal first is optimal. One of my problems is that some of my pipes have taken on water even though I used solid pipes (I knew I had groundwater when I started). So it limits the capability of the geothermal when some are clogged. The fan does a great job cooling and doesn't run that much. In hindsight, I would have built my north growbed wall with Rocks that retain heat to further aid in the thermal banking. I also would have run a pipe from the peak of the greenhouse underground and beneath the path to thermal bank that peak heat in the ground. I've learned much on this journey.
Sad that you are wasting the heat collected during the warm daytime in winter. You could pump the heat into the ground under the floor and it would rise during the night. If you read the oranges in the snow information and speak with them that is what they are doing on their new models.
Trail Break Farms Hi, Great video. Your greenhouse looks like 2 in this video.. ua-cam.com/video/ZD_3_gsgsnk/v-deo.html . I noticed in this video that the blowers sat right on top of the tubes to get the best results. Is there a reason you have not done this? Also, I noticed that Russ Finch did not insulate the metal wall. I wonder why you had to insulate and Russ did not. Please provide your thoughts..
Sorry for the late reply. Just saw this. I've had best luck with blower on top of tubes. Insulation on back wall (spray on - 2.5 inches or thicker) is the way to go. Anything that isn't a window or door needs insulation or below ground.
Your series of videos have been the most helpful to me! We are ordering a kit as well and are looking forward to your updates going forward!
Thank you for sharing. I am thinking about building one. It is wonderful to hear real world feedback from others who have made them.
Glad to see things are going well and it looks like you have the inside temperature under control.
Outstanding
Yours is the only channel from which i see myself building a green house . I am planning to make a green house for our nee house so we could have food year round .
Nice project , greetings from quebec city Canada
Back atcha - Quebec City is on my list to see!!!
thank you for sharing! I am planning on building one of these this summer, in northern Michigan
Love the videos!! Keep em comin!
Nice work ! Im going to copy some of your designs. I like all the back up systems.
this is a beautiful green house thank you for sharing this.
Thank you for the video, we went and saw the" green house in the snow" in Nebraska. We are thinking of getting one for our off grid build in Wyoming but wanted to see someone else actually using the system looks like you have the new design and are looking forward to more videos.
Yes. Definitely a Russ Finch flavor to it. But I think (maybe) Russ does it with lower-wattage fans. This guy's got some heavy-duty squirrel-cage action going on. The corrugations probably help the heat exchange, but may hinder laminar air flow, so that it takes more power to move the air through the corrugated pipes than maybe you want.
I'm not sure I like East and West not getting any sun, but the idea is to make these structures very long, so the shade only affects the East and West ends of the structure.
I think I'd try to get down closer to 8 feet in the ground. Every bit of earth I took out of the ground would be part of the eventual 8 feet I want the floor to be under ground.
This guy was apparently unaware of how close his structure was to the water table. If it's 10 1/2 inches below the East end of your structure, you're just asking for trouble from the next 20-year flood. Needed to map out where the water wants to go, and may have to, to keep his feet dry.
Cool bro!!
Great system! But that high ground water level is concerning for an underground structure...
This is very well done please continue to update with successes and/or failures the information is valuable. I am trying to engineer a system for the desert.
Make sure you put it below ground as much as possible for thermal mass.
You should tie in your heating ground air loop in to your cooling thermostat as a first stage cooling. It will then help heat the ground on hot days, returning cool air, so that there may be better warm air when you need heating. The big air fan for cooling should be second stage set maybe 5 degrees warmer. The more heat you put into the ground in summer, the more available heat you may have in the winter. Easiest way to accomplish this is to add another thermostat in parallel to the heating thermostat, but wired so that it turns the fan on when it gets too warm.
I'd operate in different modes, seasonally. I'd draw air off the top and pump it under my beds to warm up the soil on a winter day. But in the summer? I'm just pumping that hot air straight out and bringing fresh air in through my buried pipes at 52 degrees. I think I'd make a loop around the yard and back to the house, for the air inlet, to keep it close to the house.
If your pipes are unperforated, you might actually get a boost in performance from being in contact with groundwater, because it would PHYSICALLY transport the heat away from the buried pipe. I think heat exchange with ground water in that fashion would be far greater than the heat exchange from contact with the soil.
In the winter, there'd be some advantage to having a static water reservoir that you pumped heat into during the day and drew heat from during the night. Maybe for winter mode, you have some pipes that run through an underground pond you built. All it would take would be an excavator and some of that insta-crete stuff they use to make drainage ditches and temporary shelters by laying it out and then soaking it with water. You could put your pipes through such a bowl and have your underground heat sink, and just tap into it with air tubes that run through it.
you might try adding silver mylar bubble wrap to the back wall in the winter for reflective sun
Maybe I missed it, but shouldn't you be running the main geothermal fan during both day and night? During the night it has the function as you mentioned in the video, to pull warmth from the ground up into the greenhouse, but during the day the opposite is true. Pushing the warm air (you mentioned it could get up to 100° during the day) into the ground will allow you to store that warmth and use the ground as a sort of battery, storing warmth during the day and drawing it back out at night.
Thanks for the update, did you show how you placed the pipes under ground in a prior video? I was a bit concerned about
the soil quality when you get down 6-8 feet for pipe placement and if you stack the pipes or you had to dig 12 separate trenches etc. Thanks
That underground water might be useful for encouraging your tree roots to go deep. Unless prolonged exposure would cause them to be waterlogged and rot.
Thank you for documenting everything for people to learn from! Just a few questions for you, are the geothermal pipes perforated or solid ? and if they are perforated how do you keep that ground water out of them? And what depth are those geothermal pipes that run in the yard? Thank you again for sharing your experience!
Sorry, just saw this. Solid pipes because of ground water problem. They run 230 feet thru yard and come back in on other end of GH
👍
Great information, thank you for sharing. can you explain the differences in heating and cooling. the heating is a seperate system than the cooling? can you heat and cool using the same 12 tubes?
yes, you can heat and cool using same tubes. You are just using the ground temperature to heat in winter and cool in summer. Sorry for late reply. Just saw this.
If you supplement with those same black pipes running under a large pile of wood chips decomposing. Then you would get 100+ degree air coming out instead of 57 degrees.
interesting idea
@@trailbreakfarms It takes some work to replenish the mulch when depleted but the resulting composted mulch is great for gardens. I think if setup correctly and timed right you would last over winter. I hope to put the idea into practice this year for next winter.
Can you please provide the make and model numbers of the fans and blowers. This green house looks great. I am looking to build one and help a friend to build one. Do you have any plans you followed?
Good question on blowers. They came with kit. I'll see if I can find something on the blowers.
Really looking forward to updates! The space appears wider than the pictures at "Greenhouse in the Snow". Did you widen the original specs?
no. same specs. 17 x 72
It looks like a great system. I live in the Central Oregon Cascades and we normally have 24 to 48 inches of snow pack most of the winter. It looks to me that I would have to plow the snow away from a sunken greenhouse to keep the glazing exposed to sun light. What was your experience?
sorry, just saw this. Snow comes off the GH almost immediately. I've never had to remove it. I've never had to remove from around perimeter, either. Hoping for more snow!
just found your channel , i love the thought and for lack of a less crunchy term mindfulness, the use of the ladybugs to deal with your aphid problem is wonderful! have you had any issues with white flys? and do you have a predator insect recommendation?
sorry, just saw this. yes we have white flys too. I spray using a Neem Oil/water mix every other week. That helps. Lady Bugs are my favorite for dealing with Aphids/White Flys.
@@trailbreakfarms thanks, this is a problem most greenhoues face but i havent seen it adressed before
I purchased the Greenhouse in the snow $50 booklet for Russ. I understand everything but the tube metal portion. Can you please explain how and where you came up with the metal tube dimensions. Do you have shop drawings or cad drawings?
Sorry, Rashad. Just saw this comment. I don't have drawings. I took what Russ gave me and tried to figure it out from there. I started this Channel to try to reach out to others because it wasn't enough info to figure everything out. Got lots of input from youtube. Found others. We are a Village. Stronger together.
What is the brand and model of your back up heater and where did you purchase it?
Could you circulate excess hot air through the long ground heat pipes when the temperature rises above 80 to cool the greenhouse and heat the ground that you will be drawing heat from at night? You might be able to draw hot air from the greenhouse during the day and cool air from the floor at night.
sorry, just saw this. We send the hot air thru underground pipes (our vent pipes) to our Shop building to help heat that building.
Thanks for the video. About how much did all of this cost you for the full kit and other parts? Thanks
You should be able to do this kit for 25K. We spent more because we have a bunch of added stuff. sorry for late reply. just saw this comment.
Since you mention this is a zone 10 greenhouse, have you measured the temperature in the ground where you will be planting tropicals? Are you going to try bananas? I have a regular greenhouse- and I take the plants out in the late spring(Kansas City) My issue is getting the heat down to the ground where the roots are. Citrus can handle cool temps but bananas stop growing around 55F. They really need heat in the rootzone.
sorry, just saw this. Yes we are trying Bananas. My ground temperature maintains 60 and above in winter. But Bananas don't grow much unless its warmer. Likely 65 and above.
👌🖖
can you detail these pipes underground in the picture ?
Thanks. Im thinking if building one of these in Zone 7a. Whats the total cost of build? And what is the total square footage? Would you recommend it?
yes recommend. Been a good experience with this kit. Sorry for late reply. Total cost should be around 25K plus add ons.
Why is your hot air exiting through the pipes? At about 5:30 you show this. If you are just dumping hot air, why are you paying to do it, that is you are using extra energy to push the hot air down and through pipes. and I was just wondering if that is the only solution? It would be good to have vents alone the ceiling which would be the natural spot to vent hot air.
sorry, just saw this. We have pipes the hot air over to our Shop building so we aren't wasting it. Best idea would be to put a vent at the peak and pipe it below GH for thermal mass during night in winter. But have an exchanger so you can push it outside during summer.
I’m in Vernal and interested in this method. Funnily enough Alliance, NE is only 1.5 hours away from where my husband’s whole family is from ❤️ would you be up for a visitor to come check it out in person?
sorry, just saw this. yes you are welcome to visit.
Is that 12X230 LF 6" perf pipe? How far apart are the tubes? Are they in one trench?
yes. In trench. stacked on top of each other. 4" diameter pipes. 12 of them running 230'. Solid pipes because we have ground water.
What cfm is your fan you are using for the pipes
how will you keep the mango tree below 15 feet? I would love to grow a mango tree here in Asheville. Im from Florida and had 4 trees in the back yard. Looking at building something like what you have in a year so O have a zillion questions.
They have dwarf Mango varieties. Also, many producers are pruning the Mango Trees to keep them small.
When u excavated did u not have water in the ground and how did u get rid of water 💧 l. Here in Russia if I dig 4 foot deep they will fill up with water, what to do
yes, we hit underground water in our trenches but kept GH above the water. I would keep GH above the water and find fill material to build up around perimeter of your GH. You want as much insulation as possible on anything that isn't a window or door. Good luck and keep us posted!
@@trailbreakfarms will do please subscribe to our channel as that’s where I keep the updates. Bio-Veda academy zoya Alosha. Thank u so much.
What is the length of your greenhouse? Thanks for the videos!
17 x 72
What type blower are using ??
Looks like a big investment. How much do you have to grow and how long to make a profit after operating costs ?
It wasn't cheap. I don't currently have plans to monetize this Greenhouse. It could definitely be done. I've have many opportunities fall into my lap but my current interest is to get educated and healthy (both are priceless). Over time, I will monetize it.
have you had any problem with critters trying to move in?
Yes. But we like some of them as they help pollenate. Still an area of discussion among us.
Wouldn't you be better off when cooling the greenhouse during "winter" to just circulate the hot air through your 275 ft of geothermal heating pipes? Wouldn't the hot air just come out around 56F? Also, wouldn't the hot air that is circulated in the geothermal heat some of the ground then release it at night?
yes. Using the Geothermal first is optimal. One of my problems is that some of my pipes have taken on water even though I used solid pipes (I knew I had groundwater when I started). So it limits the capability of the geothermal when some are clogged. The fan does a great job cooling and doesn't run that much. In hindsight, I would have built my north growbed wall with Rocks that retain heat to further aid in the thermal banking. I also would have run a pipe from the peak of the greenhouse underground and beneath the path to thermal bank that peak heat in the ground. I've learned much on this journey.
where did you purchase the greenhouse frame?
Greenhouse in the Snow out of Alliance, NE
Can’t you just use the tubes for heat and cool? Ground temp is pretty consistent isn’t it?
sorry, just saw this. Ground temperature runs from 58 to 65 depending on time of year. Yes we use for heating and cooling.
What is the cost to keep it that warm?
Good question. My power bill covers 2 buildings and livestock heater so I'd guess it can be as high as $100 per month.
Why not suck the,air directly from the pipe?
What is the size of your greenhouse
sorry, just saw this. 17 x 72
Are you willing to consult? I live in Alpine, UT.
Happy to help. steve@amsource.com
sorry to say, I get seasick by your camera movements. But a nice greenhouse. ;-)
So what are you growing in this
Education, Health, live longer. I want to grow year 'round and be self sufficient.
Sad that you are wasting the heat collected during the warm daytime in winter. You could pump the heat into the ground under the floor and it would rise during the night. If you read the oranges in the snow information and speak with them that is what they are doing on their new models.
I have some additional questions, can I give you my email to discuss more in depth?
sure
Trail Break Farms Hi, Great video. Your greenhouse looks like 2 in this video.. ua-cam.com/video/ZD_3_gsgsnk/v-deo.html . I noticed in this video that the blowers sat right on top of the tubes to get the best results. Is there a reason you have not done this? Also, I noticed that Russ Finch did not insulate the metal wall. I wonder why you had to insulate and Russ did not. Please provide your thoughts..
Sorry for the late reply. Just saw this. I've had best luck with blower on top of tubes. Insulation on back wall (spray on - 2.5 inches or thicker) is the way to go. Anything that isn't a window or door needs insulation or below ground.