Microsoft definitely don't love the Linux desktop and just take an interest in what suits them, like most companies. Their whole "love Linux" thing is definitely like typical business PR.
The only reason they did that and other things around the same time was because they were bleeding Windows developers left and right. Most all Silicon Valley runs macOS and not Windows. At one point, Google banned the use of Windows without CIO exception approval. They got hacked and had source code stolen due to a Windows laptop. Nobody wants to run PuTTY so they added native ssh/sshd. They finally created a new terminal app that didn't look like it was from DOS. WSL/WSL2, VS Code, they ported SQL Server to Linux because MySQL / MariaDB / PostgreSQL were winning and SQL Server wasn't a choice. Then they bought Atom & GitHub.
Roflmao. My name happens to be bob. Im 63 1/2, but ive been using Linux since before it had a gui. My 1st "desktop" experience in linux was bear-ops. I now use linux mint cinnamon with ubuntu studio on top (musician). Absolutely love mint, regular ubuntu studio not so much, now i have the best of both worlds.
What might become an issue for some people is the installation. I have dual booted Linux mint on a Windows 11 mini PC but it wasn't so straight forward this time and found myself scrolling through a bunch of online forums for a solution. The solution ended up being renaming some file on the USB stick and then disabling the secure boot feature for installation. The error was now gone I could continue with the installation. Other PCs Mint had installed without any issues. Unless I am gaming I much prefer linux it handles all the basics and more without Microsofts large amount of data collection.
I know a business owner who received a 2007 sony laptop running Linux mint. I don't think the person knows of Linux but the laptop works great for email ✔️ ng
The way you approach the subject using exquisite rhetoric is really interesting, congratulations. I feel sorry for Bob Greetings Note: if there is any mistake I apologize in advance, I watch the videos subtitled in Spanish and I write in the same language, through a translator.
The misinformation that Microsoft has removed the requirement of having a TPM module has to stop now. You can still get around it with registry hacks of course.
Well, as I understand it, Microsoft have changed their mind on making is an absolute necessity to be able to use Windows 11, even if it's still a "requirement".
@@JamesChampionLinux I saw a video on this site of a young man trying to install Win11 on a non-TPM computer. It stopped cold and said this hardware is incompatible (this was in the last few days, so it's not stale info). So, as a tech person, who probably has access to a PC that is without TPM, go ahead and try it. I know you are a Linux guy, but you owe it to your viewers to speak the truth, and in this case, the truth might actually support Linux fans hope that more people will switch to Linux. (IMO Linux is only for people who are intimate with how a command line OS works and are not "casual" users. Yes, Chrome will allow you to limp along oblivious to what's under the hood, but try installing something that doesn't have a dedicated Linux build.)
He probably will! It does feel that extensions are not well moderated in web browsers and that it could be quite easy to put something malicious in there.
Great roleplay. Despite dabbling with Linux in some form since around 1999 and more seriously since 2006, I'm facing this Windows 10 EoL issue myself now. I think I've mentioned it, but have a Win10 laptop that is my main hobby/personal machine. I bought it used & refurbished from a big chain (Microcenter) and it was at the time the same model of HP Elitebook that that my company had issued to me, so it was very familiar and I could use the same AC charger and need to bring my work charger home with me. The used HP came with Windows 10, which was good because some software I wanted to use for personal projects worked better on Windows (esp. the FPGA tools from Xilinx, but also some dev tools for Atari 2600 that I wanted to use), although today I believe good Linux options exist. I did set up the HP with dual boot with Linux, but I messed it up and haven't been arsed with setting that back up again. I occasionally use a USB stick to boot Linux on it for fun, but I mostly use the ThinkPad T440p that I have now to do that sort of thing. However, with Win10 EoL now, I may get dual boot working again on the HP and mostly use LInux on it. Maybe I'll replace this HP within a year or two, so I may just bide time. I could probably live with the T440p, but the fan is a bit loud and maybe the FPGA stuff would be even slower on that.
Linux market share will definitely grow but more thanks to steam deck than M$. The truth is that most people will continue to use Windows 10 even after it stops getting security patches. You will surprised to know how few people care about these security patches, which includes some folks who have formal degree in CS/ IT (I am talking about my country - India). And since most folks here use pirated software anyway, patch / security was not a concern in the first place. And I think this phenomenon of pirated software usage is dominant in not just India but most economically backward countries. The price/subscription of software are far too high for most users to afford. And a substantial % of people won't buy it even if they can afford.
If I had to rank OS's based on consistency, attention to detail, high quality end user experiences, etc. Then macOS is at the top of the heap followed by Windows and Linux Desktop comes in last. It takes tremendous effort and time to get things setup and working reliably. I find it to be worth the effort for the freedom. But I am a highly skilled technical worker who has the ability to research issues and resolve them on Linux. But no way is Bob going to be issued a Linux desktop.
Smart Bob first searches on line what is Linux, how to install it, how to use it. What Linux operating systems are there? And when he has chosen like for instance Linux Mint, how to install and how to use it? Can I use the things I use on Windows on Mint. If not what are the alternatives? I did in 2017 and installed Peppermint 8. Liked it and never wnet back to Windows again. Used it until the main developer died in 2020. Tried several other distro's like Mint, Ubuntu, KDE neon, Pops OS, several Arch based, open Suse Tumbleweed. Currently using MX Linux Xfce. Not a developer, gamer or programmer, just a simple user.
Clearly someone needs to tell Bob to go to the menu software manager to install stuff etc and also that it is "chromium" Also there is simply no excuse for all the e-waste that is being created. At the very least, the older computers should be getting Linux Mint on them and being given to family members or those on limited budgets. They can be set up ready to browse the web and ga9n some use rather than ending up in the local landfill.
@@JamesChampionLinux My main point was really about the e-waste. Right up front, though, Bob should be told about the software manager. That means that at the same time he is being told how to make the bootable USB, he can be told that fact. The bootable USB stick is harder.
I love this. This is exactly how I think when evaluating using LInux as a daily driver - not because I'm a "bob" but I just imagine for a minute what your average "bob" would be thinking during the process. Its never been good. Your "Bob" did quite well, although his requirements were simple and he was willing to compromise on the web 365 and web spotify. I just installed LDME to try it out. Immediately was unhappy that my Kensington fingerprint reader isn't recognized. Not a show stopper, but for a "Bob"... ugg.
I have helped people to convert to Linux - in to all sorts of distributions. I have converged to Linux Mint. That is the best for people coming from (years of) Windows.
Microsoft is appears to be heading towards forcing Windows users pay a subscription to run Windows streaming from Azure. Also, the latest 365 has gotten so much better with the web interfaces. It's not that bad. It's getting better all the time. New Outlook is actually an electron app just like Teams. They seem to have plans to do the same with Word / Excel / PowerPoint, etc. ala Electron web wrapper.
My issue is drivers. I tried to move my Mint from a NuC to an AMD Mini Pc. Which with Windoze would be a breeze. But with Mint I need to roll up my sleeves and find geek-forums to figure out the AMD APU that is just not working. I gave up and put the SSD back into the Intel NuC
@@erickdomingo6579 Plus the Liquorix kernel which is in the MX-Linux repos which I find fixes just about any driver issue, or the Xanmod kernel which can be added.
Hmm, can't reply to my own post, so a new comment: I will be sticking with Firefox and Thunderbird. Getting an SSD for a clean Linux install, then accessing current HD as needed, mostly for image and video files which -- I hope - Linux will be able to read. (RawTherapee and Gimp, VLC) Thinking of going with Ubuntu.
Many Windows users can't use Windows correctly so it's very unlikely they will consider moving to Linux.The average everyday user only goes online to browse the web,game or use social media so they will never consider making the effort to learn a new system.
It will interesting to hear how many people keep running their Windows 10 install in the coming years. There are still a sizable number running Wndows 7 and even XP.
Valve has the keys to the Linux (desktop) adoption with Steam. Gaming determines what os the next generation of IT people are proficient with when they enter the workforce. If there is nobody to support Windows there will be no Windows. And one of the first jobs for young IT tech is usually the desktop support. It's a question of 10-15 years...
I also don't think a significant amount of W10 users will migrate. These people have been indoctrinated to not be able to choose: non-techies don't even understand what an OS is - Windows is just "the computer". When your oven is out of warranty, you don't go and buy a new oven - you use the old one until it's broken and then you either fix it or buy a new oven. That's how most Windows 10 users will treat W10 EoL: continue to use it "without warranty" until it breaks and then buy a new PC with whatever windows it comes with.
For most computer owners the Win10 computer they own is going to be good enough for quit a long time. This will cause big security problem. Some government will not allow this and maybe make Microsoft solve this problem.
@boazsayar1193 this didn't happen when XP ended, or 7 - which were as popular. Speaking of - my health service provider is still running the user facing data kiosks on XP...
Two things: 1. Yes, people are google users. Very much so now. I deal with them every day. They "just do Google." I quote. In terms of apps people just want google everything. Many do not know about Microsoft Office now. So Linux serves well there. 2. Normies never switch to Linux or anything else without techie support. It's all about hand holding. Windows remains the standard because normies have six friends who understand Windows who can install apps for them and sort out problems. Linux can ONLY gain traction when there are enough techie users who are using Linux and can help the normies. Normies just want their laptop "To work." They are not even interested in installing apps. They want a techie friend to come and do it all for them. I am endlessly asked, both in Windows days and Linux days, "Er, can you do it for me?" Techies must convert first and then they bring normies over. But where there is no techie to hand hold Linux CANNOT be used.
Normies learned to use Android and iOS even without techies around. It is all about a very strong reason to switch. People will force themselves to switch and learn when given no choice but a viable alternative
@erickdomingo6579 I partly agree but Android and IOS come pre-installed. That makes a HUGE difference! At that point people need a techie. Also, the user case of smartphones is different to laptops. Smartphones are mainly content consumption devices with minimal app functionality required. Laptops are more content creation - even if it be Google apps. And Google and IOS come with the apps most user want pre-installed. Laptop, the software functionality needs to be more varied and more intensive, even when using Google apps. Example: I have had students who were SO into their smartphones they figured they could write their 4,000 word AP thesis using Google Docs via smartphone. Fer real. Until they ended up using Google docs on their Macs. They found out that smartphones CANNOT handle a 4,000 word these with citations. The software required for real world creation is a different scale to smartphone use and then… they user want a techie. I do agree that people CAN learn a new system and I have shown normies how to use Linux effectively VERY quickly! It’s not hard, DE tastes withstanding. But people will go with what their techie friends RECOMMEND and will SUPPORT. And, yeah, that often includes installing apps.
the granddad isnt gonna be the user demographic that spikes linux use in 2025. its gonna be the gamer, think about valve and steam, steam os, the steam deck. linux gaming is really really good. then factor in a bunch of inflation which makes it harder for people to justify new hardware so switching over to a lighter operating system is key especially to run web browsers with the internet becoming more over-engineered and bloated
Yes, I see a lot of comments on YT about people waiting for SteamOS. It seems valve is seen as a company that can be trusted and an OS from them that can do games will get traction.
@@varenneriocha8712 Yes but a LOT of people want an OS supported by a Big Name which OFFICIALLY handles games. I know Steam runs under Linux. A lot of gamers know Steam runs under Linux. But I am reading a LOT of comments from gamers and night on normies saying "I want SteamOS when it comes out!" Also, an OS like SteamOS means some degree of official support and normies want support. Actually, they want hand holding but that's another thread.
If there is any way possible to get Windows 11 up and running on my 2016 desktop PC, once Microsoft stops the updates, that is what I'm gonna do. If not, then I will just have to install Linux on a spare HDD and do my online stuff within Linux. I think the only way Linux will see any significant increase in users is if Microsoft ends up making it impossible for older hardware to get security updates for Windows 11. I'm sure I could figure out Linux, and eventually be somewhat happy with the experience, but I'm not going to make that attempt unless Microsoft forces me to.
Optimistically,Linux share might raise to 10 percent but most people will believe that they need to buy a new PC.I'm 69 years old and most people my age will bite the bullet and get a shiny new PC. I am a nerd and cheap so I am rocking Mint and Linux Lite on various pcs .I do have Win 11 capable machines but refuse to put 11 on them. If necessary,I can run Win 10 with Zero Parch for quite a while. Your "Bob" does seem like the average consumer,though.
@PC4USE1 Like you say, my feeling is that most people will just replace their PC, but there might a sizeable minority who install Linux on their old machines.
Over the last year I've made the switch and been very happy. There is nothing that I can do in Windows that I can't do in Linux, but then I do use Adobe or any other pay as you go subscription based application. The only problem I have is that the computers now run too fast. My old Win7 Laptop run programs faster then my newer desktop with an i5 and twice the memory ran Win10. Bob must be brain dead. All he has to do is go to the Linux Software Manager and install what he wants. Dang, MS would never have a software store to install software would they? Why would he want to keep using 365. Mint comes with a full office suite that works off line and he never has to worry about paying for. Also if Bob didn't need anyone to hold his hand he would know that he could still use 365 without the 365 desktop. I guess he was never told. As for the rest, If Bob doesn't want to spend and hour or less and do any research to learn about the different distros I hope he has someone to help him dress because he probably never learned to tie his shoes. Does he even know that Mac's don't run Windows? I'm a bit facetious above about Bob,. However you are correct that 2025, or any other year, will not be the year of the Linux desktop. This won't happen until it is possible to walk into a store and buy a computer already set up with Linux. It is just too hard for most to put forth the effort to do something for themselves.
Bob might do his research in the future, but right now Bob is being Bob. :) Yep, Windows definitely has complete dominance with desktop and laptop computers shipping with Windows.
"As for the rest, If Bob doesn't want to spend and hour or less and do any research to learn about the different distros I hope he has someone to help him dress because he probably never learned to tie his shoes" That wasn't the best analogy considering many people are taught how to tie their shoes, lmao.
Personally I think the Linux world is wasting time with developing hundreds of Linux Distros instead of developing apps that average users can use with ease when switching from Windows to Linux. Average users want point and click options to install needed apps and not command line where they can easily damage their system.
There are probably way too many distros, but I guess it's happened as Linux, Open Source, and Free Software afforded developers the possibility to make as many different distributions as can be imagined.
Lol. Apparently, Bob is a man of selective knowledge: Knows what distro to try, where to find and download the correct version, how to burn it to a flash drive, how to boot from said flash drive and even that he can mock-install software into the live environment. Simultaneously, Bob is oblivious of Mint's software manager.
I would have used ChromeFlex but the file manager stinks, and no Playstore like a Chromebook. Linux Mint Cinnamon works fine. We should encourage people to understand their options and avoid E-waste. There are many quality UA-cam videos on Linux.
My prediction is, valve releases steam OS for Desktop soon. Half life 3 maybe, or cheaper, or runs better or just will be released exclusivly on Linux or at least first. Thats when we see Linux Desktop going wie mainstream.
I think Bob will just go out and buy a new PC with Windows 11.....no PC reseller ever mentions about there is no need to buy new hardware as Linux is the answer.....a they are in the business of selling new hardware, and transferring their old settings to their new PC...at a cost..... My name is Bob....but use Mint22.....Bob is happy....
im 16, just changed on linux mint since a few hours, i agree with you about 2025 not being the year of linux, its slowly getting there, also bob needs to learn more about linux lol
That is the whole point: Not knowingly, just through years of use, people have "learned" Windows. They overlook that and think Linux "should work" with zero learning!
Well, the purpose is at it arrives at the recipient. My impression was that, the author tried not to fall in the the euphorie, "now Microsoft is commiting suicide, Linux will boom" slip in to the shoes of a "commoner" and see how the reality is.
@@JamesChampionLinux I think there is another question first: why does a person use a computer? The operations you described in the video can very well be done with a smartphone or tablet. So, why use a computer? I think this question comes first, because if one uses the computer only to navigate, read mail or listen to music, one can do it from a phone. Among my friends, for example, the majority don't have a computer at home, they only use it at work. Other types of users? those who want to get into programming? to content creation? those are curious enough to delve a little more into the use of a computer and therefore also the use of unixlike systems.
... it is clear to me that, it's a miracle your Bob could use a computer ... it's obvious, he likes to eat, but does not want to chew, too much effort, likes to dance, but can not bother to get up, and so on ... every one of us who switched to Linux, never did it overnight ... Microsoft was the reason of course ... and, I had to do a great deal of reading and learning totally strange stuff and "language" ... the first distro was, Ubuntu 5.0, and a dual boot for a year and a half, till I settled on Mint, confident I knew enough for permanent switch ... I'm happily using Mint 22 LTS... since the switch, no stack overflows, no crashes, no viruses and endless reinstallations, no drive defragmentations no missing or corrupt DLLs ... ... so, Bob, get a pen and a notebook, start reading and make notes, for all the commands and terminology you need to learn, regardless of your age ... otherwise, stay on MS Windows and keep tearing up what's left of your pubes ...
Got to love that Microsoft "embraces" Linux with WSL, but won't ship an Electron or Tauri app to get Office 365 on Linux.
Microsoft definitely don't love the Linux desktop and just take an interest in what suits them, like most companies. Their whole "love Linux" thing is definitely like typical business PR.
The only reason they did that and other things around the same time was because they were bleeding Windows developers left and right. Most all Silicon Valley runs macOS and not Windows. At one point, Google banned the use of Windows without CIO exception approval. They got hacked and had source code stolen due to a Windows laptop. Nobody wants to run PuTTY so they added native ssh/sshd. They finally created a new terminal app that didn't look like it was from DOS. WSL/WSL2, VS Code, they ported SQL Server to Linux because MySQL / MariaDB / PostgreSQL were winning and SQL Server wasn't a choice. Then they bought Atom & GitHub.
Well, I don't think Bob is the best example.
Most regular Bobs not even capable to lace their shoes.
It's true, if Bob can't read anything, anything, that is not flashing in his face in the web browser
Classic Bob.
2076 will be the year of the linux desktop
Way too optimistic. ;)
Nice joke 🤣😂
Roflmao. My name happens to be bob. Im 63 1/2, but ive been using Linux since before it had a gui. My 1st "desktop" experience in linux was bear-ops. I now use linux mint cinnamon with ubuntu studio on top (musician). Absolutely love mint, regular ubuntu studio not so much, now i have the best of both worlds.
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Nice one on using Linux before a gui. :)
What might become an issue for some people is the installation. I have dual booted Linux mint on a Windows 11 mini PC but it wasn't so straight forward this time and found myself scrolling through a bunch of online forums for a solution. The solution ended up being renaming some file on the USB stick and then disabling the secure boot feature for installation. The error was now gone I could continue with the installation. Other PCs Mint had installed without any issues. Unless I am gaming I much prefer linux it handles all the basics and more without Microsofts large amount of data collection.
Cool video i was Bob on 2003 i Just love Linux and i3wm since 2016.
Thanks.
Thanks. Good to hear you're a long time Linux user now.
Google/Microsoft vs GNU/Linux is gold.
The state of desktop computing 2009 - 2025+
I know a business owner who received a 2007 sony laptop running Linux mint. I don't think the person knows of Linux but the laptop works great for email ✔️ ng
Good to hear that it's just working for him and his business. Google/Linux (Mint) is definitely a thing.
The way you approach the subject using exquisite rhetoric is really interesting, congratulations.
I feel sorry for Bob
Greetings
Note: if there is any mistake I apologize in advance, I watch the videos subtitled in Spanish and I write in the same language, through a translator.
Many thanks! No worries, the translation is great. :)
James must be a teacher. ;-)
Bob should enjoy the slideshow while Linux Mint is installed on his computer.
Bob loves a slideshow, it reminds him of 500000 hour long meetings with PowerPoint presentations on his Windows XP work laptop.
The misinformation that Microsoft has removed the requirement of having a TPM module has to stop now. You can still get around it with registry hacks of course.
Well, as I understand it, Microsoft have changed their mind on making is an absolute necessity to be able to use Windows 11, even if it's still a "requirement".
@@JamesChampionLinux I saw a video on this site of a young man trying to install Win11 on a non-TPM computer. It stopped cold and said this hardware is incompatible (this was in the last few days, so it's not stale info). So, as a tech person, who probably has access to a PC that is without TPM, go ahead and try it. I know you are a Linux guy, but you owe it to your viewers to speak the truth, and in this case, the truth might actually support Linux fans hope that more people will switch to Linux. (IMO Linux is only for people who are intimate with how a command line OS works and are not "casual" users. Yes, Chrome will allow you to limp along oblivious to what's under the hood, but try installing something that doesn't have a dedicated Linux build.)
Will he install Google Chrome after that its extensions is malware? You can se the video ThioJoe have made just yesterday
He probably will! It does feel that extensions are not well moderated in web browsers and that it could be quite easy to put something malicious in there.
Zorin OS is an excellent option for those new to Linux and anyone else who wants a simple, elegant, and stable experience.
A nice looking distro.
Great roleplay. Despite dabbling with Linux in some form since around 1999 and more seriously since 2006, I'm facing this Windows 10 EoL issue myself now. I think I've mentioned it, but have a Win10 laptop that is my main hobby/personal machine. I bought it used & refurbished from a big chain (Microcenter) and it was at the time the same model of HP Elitebook that that my company had issued to me, so it was very familiar and I could use the same AC charger and need to bring my work charger home with me. The used HP came with Windows 10, which was good because some software I wanted to use for personal projects worked better on Windows (esp. the FPGA tools from Xilinx, but also some dev tools for Atari 2600 that I wanted to use), although today I believe good Linux options exist.
I did set up the HP with dual boot with Linux, but I messed it up and haven't been arsed with setting that back up again. I occasionally use a USB stick to boot Linux on it for fun, but I mostly use the ThinkPad T440p that I have now to do that sort of thing. However, with Win10 EoL now, I may get dual boot working again on the HP and mostly use LInux on it. Maybe I'll replace this HP within a year or two, so I may just bide time. I could probably live with the T440p, but the fan is a bit loud and maybe the FPGA stuff would be even slower on that.
That's a shame that your Linux dual-boot broke. Let us know how you get on with the Windows 10 EOL.
Linux market share will definitely grow but more thanks to steam deck than M$. The truth is that most people will continue to use Windows 10 even after it stops getting security patches. You will surprised to know how few people care about these security patches, which includes some folks who have formal degree in CS/ IT (I am talking about my country - India). And since most folks here use pirated software anyway, patch / security was not a concern in the first place. And I think this phenomenon of pirated software usage is dominant in not just India but most economically backward countries. The price/subscription of software are far too high for most users to afford. And a substantial % of people won't buy it even if they can afford.
Yeah, the steam deck and Steam on Linux are good incentives for a lot of people to use Linux.
If I had to rank OS's based on consistency, attention to detail, high quality end user experiences, etc. Then macOS is at the top of the heap followed by Windows and Linux Desktop comes in last. It takes tremendous effort and time to get things setup and working reliably. I find it to be worth the effort for the freedom. But I am a highly skilled technical worker who has the ability to research issues and resolve them on Linux. But no way is Bob going to be issued a Linux desktop.
It would be interesting to see what you think of COSMIC desktop once it's finished its alpha and beta releases.
Smart Bob first searches on line what is Linux, how to install it, how to use it. What Linux operating systems are there? And when he has chosen like for instance Linux Mint, how to install and how to use it? Can I use the things I use on Windows on Mint. If not what are the alternatives?
I did in 2017 and installed Peppermint 8. Liked it and never wnet back to Windows again. Used it until the main developer died in 2020. Tried several other distro's like Mint, Ubuntu, KDE neon, Pops OS, several Arch based, open Suse Tumbleweed. Currently using MX Linux Xfce. Not a developer, gamer or programmer, just a simple user.
I had completely forgotten about Peppermint.
Poor Bob hahaha! Only laughing with him, not at him. Nice video James!
Don't worry, in a few years Bob will be a full free software fundamentalist running Parabola on a 32-bit 2000 year old ThinkPad. :)
@JamesChampionLinux Love it!
Clearly someone needs to tell Bob to go to the menu software manager to install stuff etc and also that it is "chromium"
Also there is simply no excuse for all the e-waste that is being created. At the very least, the older computers should be getting Linux Mint on them and being given to family members or those on limited budgets. They can be set up ready to browse the web and ga9n some use rather than ending up in the local landfill.
I'm sure Bob will eventually learn about the software manager, but right now, everything will be about the Chrome web browser.
@@JamesChampionLinux My main point was really about the e-waste. Right up front, though, Bob should be told about the software manager. That means that at the same time he is being told how to make the bootable USB, he can be told that fact. The bootable USB stick is harder.
I love this. This is exactly how I think when evaluating using LInux as a daily driver - not because I'm a "bob" but I just imagine for a minute what your average "bob" would be thinking during the process. Its never been good. Your "Bob" did quite well, although his requirements were simple and he was willing to compromise on the web 365 and web spotify.
I just installed LDME to try it out. Immediately was unhappy that my Kensington fingerprint reader isn't recognized. Not a show stopper, but for a "Bob"... ugg.
Thanks. For Bob, right now, Linux Mint is just his way to get to his web browser and all of his "apps".
Good thing you started with Linux Mint and not Arch.
I have helped people to convert to Linux - in to all sorts of distributions. I have converged to Linux Mint. That is the best for people coming from (years of) Windows.
Yeah, Linux Mint is going to make most people coming from Windows happy.
Microsoft is appears to be heading towards forcing Windows users pay a subscription to run Windows streaming from Azure. Also, the latest 365 has gotten so much better with the web interfaces. It's not that bad. It's getting better all the time. New Outlook is actually an electron app just like Teams. They seem to have plans to do the same with Word / Excel / PowerPoint, etc. ala Electron web wrapper.
Interesting developments. Thanks for sharing.
My issue is drivers. I tried to move my Mint from a NuC to an AMD Mini Pc. Which with Windoze would be a breeze. But with Mint I need to roll up my sleeves and find geek-forums to figure out the AMD APU that is just not working. I gave up and put the SSD back into the Intel NuC
That's a shame as I would assume that Linux Mint would just work on it.
Nothing to lose if you try MX Linux ahs version
@@erickdomingo6579 Plus the Liquorix kernel which is in the MX-Linux repos which I find fixes just about any driver issue, or the Xanmod kernel which can be added.
Hmm, can't reply to my own post, so a new comment:
I will be sticking with Firefox and Thunderbird. Getting an SSD for a clean Linux install, then accessing current HD as needed, mostly for image and video files which -- I hope - Linux will be able to read. (RawTherapee and Gimp, VLC) Thinking of going with Ubuntu.
Good luck and I'm sure it will work great!
Many Windows users can't use Windows correctly so it's very unlikely they will consider moving to Linux.The average everyday user only goes online to browse the web,game or use social media so they will never consider making the effort to learn a new system.
It will interesting to hear how many people keep running their Windows 10 install in the coming years. There are still a sizable number running Wndows 7 and even XP.
Valve has the keys to the Linux (desktop) adoption with Steam. Gaming determines what os the next generation of IT people are proficient with when they enter the workforce. If there is nobody to support Windows there will be no Windows. And one of the first jobs for young IT tech is usually the desktop support. It's a question of 10-15 years...
It could be an interesting decade for the Linux desktop.
I also don't think a significant amount of W10 users will migrate. These people have been indoctrinated to not be able to choose: non-techies don't even understand what an OS is - Windows is just "the computer". When your oven is out of warranty, you don't go and buy a new oven - you use the old one until it's broken and then you either fix it or buy a new oven. That's how most Windows 10 users will treat W10 EoL: continue to use it "without warranty" until it breaks and then buy a new PC with whatever windows it comes with.
That is the reality. But, never give up!
@guss77 spot on.
For most computer owners the Win10 computer they own is going to be good enough for quit a long time. This will cause big security problem. Some government will not allow this and maybe make Microsoft solve this problem.
@boazsayar1193 this didn't happen when XP ended, or 7 - which were as popular. Speaking of - my health service provider is still running the user facing data kiosks on XP...
Two things:
1. Yes, people are google users. Very much so now. I deal with them every day. They "just do Google." I quote. In terms of apps people just want google everything. Many do not know about Microsoft Office now. So Linux serves well there.
2. Normies never switch to Linux or anything else without techie support. It's all about hand holding. Windows remains the standard because normies have six friends who understand Windows who can install apps for them and sort out problems.
Linux can ONLY gain traction when there are enough techie users who are using Linux and can help the normies. Normies just want their laptop "To work." They are not even interested in installing apps. They want a techie friend to come and do it all for them. I am endlessly asked, both in Windows days and Linux days, "Er, can you do it for me?"
Techies must convert first and then they bring normies over. But where there is no techie to hand hold Linux CANNOT be used.
Good points.
Normies learned to use Android and iOS even without techies around. It is all about a very strong reason to switch. People will force themselves to switch and learn when given no choice but a viable alternative
@erickdomingo6579 I partly agree but Android and IOS come pre-installed. That makes a HUGE difference! At that point people need a techie.
Also, the user case of smartphones is different to laptops. Smartphones are mainly content consumption devices with minimal app functionality required. Laptops are more content creation - even if it be Google apps. And Google and IOS come with the apps most user want pre-installed.
Laptop, the software functionality needs to be more varied and more intensive, even when using Google apps. Example: I have had students who were SO into their smartphones they figured they could write their 4,000 word AP thesis using Google Docs via smartphone. Fer real.
Until they ended up using Google docs on their Macs. They found out that smartphones CANNOT handle a 4,000 word these with citations. The software required for real world creation is a different scale to smartphone use and then… they user want a techie.
I do agree that people CAN learn a new system and I have shown normies how to use Linux effectively VERY quickly! It’s not hard, DE tastes withstanding. But people will go with what their techie friends RECOMMEND and will SUPPORT. And, yeah, that often includes installing apps.
I actually just use Edge. It is basically the same with perhaps slightly less spying.. maybe not but its just Chrome with a Microsoft layer on top
Like you say, it's just Chrome with a Microsoft skin.
bob needs abandon the google ecosystem as much as the windows way of doing.
Classic Bob being Bob.
Google too, as of Microsoft wouldn't be big enough!
I mean, I agree with what you said, but holy shit why did it take you 16 minutes to say it?
16 minutes is quick to explain something on this channel! :)
the granddad isnt gonna be the user demographic that spikes linux use in 2025. its gonna be the gamer, think about valve and steam, steam os, the steam deck. linux gaming is really really good. then factor in a bunch of inflation which makes it harder for people to justify new hardware so switching over to a lighter operating system is key especially to run web browsers with the internet becoming more over-engineered and bloated
Great point. Gaming on Linux is getting a lot more desirable. I forgot to cover that Bob would want to probably install Steam.
Yes, I see a lot of comments on YT about people waiting for SteamOS. It seems valve is seen as a company that can be trusted and an OS from them that can do games will get traction.
Steam is available for Linux. And has even better alternatives like Nobara.
@@varenneriocha8712 Yes but a LOT of people want an OS supported by a Big Name which OFFICIALLY handles games.
I know Steam runs under Linux. A lot of gamers know Steam runs under Linux. But I am reading a LOT of comments from gamers and night on normies saying "I want SteamOS when it comes out!"
Also, an OS like SteamOS means some degree of official support and normies want support. Actually, they want hand holding but that's another thread.
@@jedipadawan7023 You mean people are obedient (to feel confident they need Big Names)?
I installed Redhat Linux back in the day from a book :)
Did it, but GOD was it hard, so many problems :p
From a book? Must have been in the 90s. That was the stone age compare to today, three decades later!
@@SillySausage-mq3so today it is as easy as windows and fedora is free.
@SillySausage-mq3so Good job for toughing it out through the hazing period and getting the installation up and running!
If there is any way possible to get Windows 11 up and running on my 2016 desktop PC, once Microsoft stops the updates, that is what I'm gonna do. If not, then I will just have to install Linux on a spare HDD and do my online stuff within Linux. I think the only way Linux will see any significant increase in users is if Microsoft ends up making it impossible for older hardware to get security updates for Windows 11. I'm sure I could figure out Linux, and eventually be somewhat happy with the experience, but I'm not going to make that attempt unless Microsoft forces me to.
That's fair enough. To be honest, I only switched to Linux years ago because I couldn't get the custom experience I needed from Windows.
Optimistically,Linux share might raise to 10 percent but most people will believe that they need to buy a new PC.I'm 69 years old and most people my age will bite the bullet and get a shiny new PC. I am a nerd and cheap so I am rocking Mint and Linux Lite on various pcs .I do have Win 11 capable machines but refuse to put 11 on them. If necessary,I can run Win 10 with Zero Parch for quite a while. Your "Bob" does seem like the average consumer,though.
10% would be huge! A stable 7-8% would be great IMO.
@PC4USE1 Like you say, my feeling is that most people will just replace their PC, but there might a sizeable minority who install Linux on their old machines.
Over the last year I've made the switch and been very happy. There is nothing that I can do in Windows that I can't do in Linux, but then I do use Adobe or any other pay as you go subscription based application. The only problem I have is that the computers now run too fast. My old Win7 Laptop run programs faster then my newer desktop with an i5 and twice the memory ran Win10.
Bob must be brain dead. All he has to do is go to the Linux Software Manager and install what he wants. Dang, MS would never have a software store to install software would they?
Why would he want to keep using 365. Mint comes with a full office suite that works off line and he never has to worry about paying for. Also if Bob didn't need anyone to hold his hand he would know that he could still use 365 without the 365 desktop. I guess he was never told.
As for the rest, If Bob doesn't want to spend and hour or less and do any research to learn about the different distros I hope he has someone to help him dress because he probably never learned to tie his shoes. Does he even know that Mac's don't run Windows?
I'm a bit facetious above about Bob,. However you are correct that 2025, or any other year, will not be the year of the Linux desktop. This won't happen until it is possible to walk into a store and buy a computer already set up with Linux. It is just too hard for most to put forth the effort to do something for themselves.
Bob might do his research in the future, but right now Bob is being Bob. :)
Yep, Windows definitely has complete dominance with desktop and laptop computers shipping with Windows.
"As for the rest, If Bob doesn't want to spend and hour or less and do any research to learn about the different distros I hope he has someone to help him dress because he probably never learned to tie his shoes"
That wasn't the best analogy considering many people are taught how to tie their shoes, lmao.
@@LaZd- True, but I know several that haven't yet learned. I suspect that is one reason for the Velcro equipped shoes.
@@harveybc Eh, fair point.
Personally I think the Linux world is wasting time with developing hundreds of Linux Distros instead of developing apps that average users can use with ease when switching from Windows to Linux.
Average users want point and click options to install needed apps and not command line where they can easily damage their system.
There are probably way too many distros, but I guess it's happened as Linux, Open Source, and Free Software afforded developers the possibility to make as many different distributions as can be imagined.
Lol. Apparently, Bob is a man of selective knowledge: Knows what distro to try, where to find and download the correct version, how to burn it to a flash drive, how to boot from said flash drive and even that he can mock-install software into the live environment. Simultaneously, Bob is oblivious of Mint's software manager.
Bob will eventually find the software manager, but Bob being Bob, just uses the web browser for most things anyway.
I'm on Linux Mint in Virtual Box in Windows 11 on my Asus laptop.
Good to hear!
Nice Video!
You didn't make clear enough that installing Software on Linux isnt done as you showed. Or at least that there are better ways.
Thanks. Yeah, maybe I should do a video on setting up Linux Mint through its software center etc...
Most people don't know that Linux exists!!
This is true.
"Bob is pleased" LoL
I would have used ChromeFlex but the file manager stinks, and no Playstore like a Chromebook. Linux Mint Cinnamon works fine. We should encourage people to understand their options and avoid E-waste. There are many quality UA-cam videos on Linux.
I hadn't heard of ChromeFlex and just looked it up. Thanks.
My prediction is, valve releases steam OS for Desktop soon. Half life 3 maybe, or cheaper, or runs better or just will be released exclusivly on Linux or at least first.
Thats when we see Linux Desktop going wie mainstream.
I have heard that some games run better on Linux than Windows.
micro$ofts "recall" has made me start migrating, tried Nobara, but still looking for a distro not infested with woke developers
Interesting, I don't think I've heard of Nobara. Thanks.
Your VM is extremely slow
Yeah, I need to look at some optimisations in the near future. :)
good thought experiment
Thanks. :)
2025 will be the year of the plan9 desktop
I think Bob will just go out and buy a new PC with Windows 11.....no PC reseller ever mentions about there is no need to buy new hardware as Linux is the answer.....a they are in the business of selling new hardware, and transferring their old settings to their new PC...at a cost.....
My name is Bob....but use Mint22.....Bob is happy....
You are spot on Bob.
... and Bob's your uncle! 😁
im 16, just changed on linux mint since a few hours, i agree with you about 2025 not being the year of linux, its slowly getting there, also bob needs to learn more about linux lol
That is the whole point: Not knowingly, just through years of use, people have "learned" Windows. They overlook that and think Linux "should work" with zero learning!
@xycoflos Good luck with Linux Mint.
>"actually lets not say COS play"
haha - good choice
Bob needs to work in a real pc not in a virtual pc😁
Bob didn't realise how capable he really was by running a virtual machine by accident. :)
I didn't understand what your purpose was when you made this video
Well, the purpose is at it arrives at the recipient. My impression was that, the author tried not to fall in the the euphorie, "now Microsoft is commiting suicide, Linux will boom" slip in to the shoes of a "commoner" and see how the reality is.
I just wanted to be as honest as possible about a regular user trying to switch from Windows to Linux Mint would actually look like.
@@JamesChampionLinux I think there is another question first: why does a person use a computer? The operations you described in the video can very well be done with a smartphone or tablet. So, why use a computer? I think this question comes first, because if one uses the computer only to navigate, read mail or listen to music, one can do it from a phone. Among my friends, for example, the majority don't have a computer at home, they only use it at work.
Other types of users? those who want to get into programming? to content creation? those are curious enough to delve a little more into the use of a computer and therefore also the use of unixlike systems.
... it is clear to me that, it's a miracle your Bob could use a computer ... it's obvious, he likes to eat, but does not want to chew, too much effort, likes to dance, but can not bother to get up, and so on ... every one of us who switched to Linux, never did it overnight ... Microsoft was the reason of course ... and, I had to do a great deal of reading and learning totally strange stuff and "language" ... the first distro was, Ubuntu 5.0, and a dual boot for a year and a half, till I settled on Mint, confident I knew enough for permanent switch ... I'm happily using Mint 22 LTS... since the switch, no stack overflows, no crashes, no viruses and endless reinstallations, no drive defragmentations no missing or corrupt DLLs ...
... so, Bob, get a pen and a notebook, start reading and make notes, for all the commands and terminology you need to learn, regardless of your age ... otherwise, stay on MS Windows and keep tearing up what's left of your pubes ...
Lots of good points made.