I also had adventures with regulators for 25 USD. 🙃 And finally I invested in a very old Polish brand (the best on the market) for about 220 USD, except that I bought a new storage lounger for half the price. 😁 The quality of workmanship makes a difference, but it has another advantage over other regulators, it reduces the pressure from the cylinder by 2 stages. 😛 Thanks to this, it maintains a much more stable flow during long welding (end of tank). I also use quick connectors like miller for coling and gas (all types of threads and barbs are awalible), except that I also have the option of making a hose with a diameter of OD 1/4" as long as I need from a polyurethane pneumatic hose without reinforcement (standard 2m/7ft). In our country it is called Tekalen, a standard in the industry and very cheap, and it does not stretch (no balloon effect😚) and you do not lose gas because of it.
Glad the video helped you. If you use a cheap regulator and a better one you will understand why it's worth spending the money. Leaks, wasted gas due to inaccurate meters, etc all are issues. Treat yourself to a decent one 😀.
When you talked about quick connect fittings, I realized that most HF type welder does not have the threaded gas inlet. Much more common is the cheap straight pipe to fit a tube and hose clamp/jubilee clip. Something to be aware if quick connect couplings is important on the welder side.
Great info- I've never actually used a ball type flow meter, since the two gauge style came with my Miller. Speaking of leak testing......I purchased a Harris O/A torch (with bottles) at auction years ago.....and had noticed a pressure loss on the acetylene side (not fast; but faster than the oxygen). I used soapy water & checked the tank/regulator/torch, and attributed it to a relatively minor leak coming out the tip of the torch..... until using it the other day when I had a "SHAKE HANDS WITH DANGER" moment 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 as the line fitting below the check valve was loose enough to leak & caught fire- All is fine (I dropped the torch & ran to shut off the acetylene bottle) but things were sure exciting for a moment...😂😂
Haha be proud you didn’t panic lol. I have heard wild stories where people didn’t go and shut the bottles down while the gas lines were wide open flying around like a whip that was on fire lol. The ball type is definitely more accurate since it’s directly measuring the gas flow, vs a calculated cfh based on pressure. I find the main differences (and I of course failed to mention them) is the flow meter style is accurate over a broad range of tank pressures. The dial type that function off pressure tend to be more inaccurate below 1/4 tank. It’s not a huge deal if you don’t weld a lot, but if you do the savings in getting the exact flow you need can add up. It can be hard to tell the difference between 18 and say 24cfh, and over a few tanks worth of welding it will amount to a decent chunk of money.
I had an instance like that about 2 years ago with some Western Enterprise quick disconnects on oxy\acetylene torch. Like you I shut the tank valves off quickly disconnected everything. Later that day after I inspected it all I was able to put it back together and never had an issue. The leak was right at the couplers.
I bought a 20$ Amazon special for a new inverter cheapo tig welder. I thought I was having current problems with the welder but turns out I was having gas surge. There are gas saving devices to lower line pressure so I threw on a 5$ gauge regulator in line. The line pressure was something like 60 psi. I lowered it to 30 psi....I believe most welding operates @ 20-30. A 2nd double flowmeter regulator Amazon special (30$) had line pressure much closer to the ball park. I don't know if there's a way to adjust the set pressure on these but I picked up an old victor one that appears to have a hex screw for adjustment. Just something to keep in mind.....20cfh at 60 psi is much different than 20cfh @ 30 psi.
You are 100% correct on pressure vs cfh. Most ball flow meters are regulated. The ones I run are factory set to 20psi. The glass/plastic flow tube is calibrated for flow based on the regulated 20psi pressure. If the regulator ever fails the calibrations will be off, definitely worth paying attention to. That old victor you found could likely be calibrated to be accurate by adjusting that hex screw. The ones I have also have adjustability, but it’s a PITA to do and it’s pretty much assumed you wouldn’t mess with it lol. Most regulators will have a surge of gas because the resting pressure in the closed line (welder solenoid shut) is higher than the pressure in a open line. Obviously if you had a regulator that puts out 60 like you said, that would cause all sorts of issues. If the molten pool was in existence I bet it would blow the metal around 😮.
My bottles are chained to the walls or the work benches. I have small bottles if I need to do a job outside of my workshop. It’s so much cheaper swapping big bottles of gas over smaller ones. I only pay 75$ for a 300cuft argon tank swap out. A 125 is like 60$ lol.
The tanks I use comes with regulators so for precise flow rates I have a hand held flow meter. Little trouble I can live with. Tanks comes with quick connectors. Have the same oxy-acetylene regulators I bought 50 years ago. Never releases the adjustment. Even have the same hoses. Never leaked. They made quality products back then. Was taught that when finished gas welding or cutting to close tank valves and check pressure. When leaving (at least half an hour later for fire safety reasons) check pressure meters and then release pressure. To know if any leaks.
@@Comm0ut Sweden. Air Liquide. Have better price from them than from AGA (now part of Linde group). In Sweden we have a efficient exchange system for gas tanks. Can add a bit of history. Gustaf Dahlen, Swedish founder of AGA invented the use of acetone for dissolving acetylene. Making storage of acetylene in tanks possible.He also made inventions used in unmanned lighthouses around the world.
I do have same Harris 355 flow meter like you do but found out that is nor very accurate when I tested flow on tig torch end . Actually when tested two gauge regulator the flow was more accurate than Harris . I end up to taking Allen wrench and adjusted Harris flow meter on bottom, even when sticker say don't do that. Was off like 7 CFH
Mine has been dead on, interesting yours wasn’t. Keep in mind that your gas blend affects the flow meter. Most of the regulators have multiple gases they can work with, and the density of them differs. They will place the ball at different levels/scales. Depending on how you measured the accuracy of the meter (tig or mig gun nozzle mini flow meter) that testing meter will likely be more inaccurate than the gauge, since it may not be calibrated for the specific gas your using. For setup I generally run a #8 tig cup with a gas lens, and lower the gas flow to the point I barely get good coverage welding flat position 1/4inch steel at 120a fusion weld. It’s somewhere between 10 and 12 cfh on miller and Harris meters. All of the other meters I have with the same setup read between 8 and 18cfh. It’s probably most important to set based on the lowest acceptable performance as a starting point, more so than actual flow. The real problem lies with the cheaper meters having serious drift as the gas bottle pressure drops. It might read 12cfh at 2k bottle pressure and 12cfh at 600psi, but it might be at 16cfh at 2k and 10 at 600. The ball type should indicate the change visually, and require you to open the valve more (better meters tend to drift less) but many of the cheap dial ones won’t say anything.
Harris 355 Argon/Helium (355-2Ar/He-58010) has a scale of 45 SCFH Flow Capacity instead of 70. Does it mean adjusting it will be easier and more precise? (20PSI is around the middle of the scale.)
Great question. So if the scale covers less of a range the resolution will be higher provided the scale is the same height on the tube. It would be easier to adjust it precisely because of the higher resolution. To adjust flow you turn the knob and its very precise, it’s not like some gauges that 1/16th of a turn is 10cfh.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for the reply. Just ordered that version only because the scale is 45 instead of 70 :) I'm a newbie and I hope 45 SCFH will cover all my needs.
Other than on acetylene tank valves I've always been taught, ( according to Linde and Victor at least) to fully open the valves on oxygen and shielding gas cylinder valves and back seat them to prevent possible gas loss at the packing. I have not had issue with that practice but then I've never actually checked any of my tank valves over the decades either for a possible leak. What are your thoughts on back seating the valve? Some great content your putting out Greg, and at a prolific rate too I might add. Not always easy, keep it up, just don't burn yourself out in the process. LOL
Great question. So the oxygen tank I always backseat, I was taught that and due to the nature of the gas I abide by that. Now for argon and inert gasses, I generally don’t and I have never discovered a leak. I have had tanks with minor leaks from the stem/ handle, but back seating them didn’t change a thing about the leak. My general test is to pressurize a line, purge the hose through the welder, and then shut the tank valve. If after 5 minutes the pressure has barely dropped, I know there is no leak. If I do determine there is a leak I leak soapy water the valve stem/handle/regulator and most of the time it’s at the regulator threads into the valve. I have found 2 tanks (out of 100+ that leaked at the stem. A minor leak on a tank of any inert gas while you’re using it would have no danger. If you left said tank in a confined space for a week with the valve open and it had a leak it could be deadly I suppose. Thanks for the nice comments too 😀. I won’t burn myself out. I am used to working 80-90 hours a week (48 to 60 at my normal job and 20 to 40+ on “projects”). My main project (12,000 hour restoration of a old building) came to a end last year, so I needed something to fill the gap in my time. That’s why I started shooting videos, it gave me something to do vs sitting around 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks Greg for the follow-up. Your comments and procedure for checking the system for leaks on the system echo mine. On new installations that are yet unproven I'll leave the system pressurized for a few hours and if it maintains the same pressure after having closed the valve I'll know it's good. I think I may save some time and follow your lead and forego the backseating procedure on the shielding gas valves. Sounds like you're a bit of a workaholic, much like I used to be. I went for decades were a 16 hr day was a short one. Amazing what a guy can accomplish in a week what used to take a month. Now that the yoke is off I must admit though that life in the slow lane is good too. I put off more things by 9 AM than most folks do all day. LOL But yeah as long as you're having fun it isn't work is it. Have a good one Greg!
@@74willy81 if it’s fun and feeds my need to build stuff it definitely isn’t work 😀. I like building stuff so doing it on my own terms at my own pace makes it tolerable lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Doesn't your line pressure test omit potential leak at the tank valve though since you're closing it? IOW, it wouldn't detect if 1/4 turn is leaking vs full open no?
@@idontwantcorporateretaliat6301 if you pressurize the line and then shut the tank, if the tank has a leak at the valve stem packing you will loose pressure. I have had a few tanks that were like this, mainly because the threads on the valve seat were wore plumb out and the packing was shot too. Because the tank pressure gauge on the regulator is directly reading the pressure between the seat and regulator, it will pickup a leak on a valve stem packing. If the internal seat was leaking you wouldn’t know though. Although generally you would hear it when you go to put your regulator on it because 1k psi makes a lot of noise even with a minor leak.
So c02 bottles commonly use a different fitting than other compressed gas bottles. Larger co2 bottles use cga-320 fittings and most small to medium compressed gas cylinders use cga-580. If you want to use a larger gas bottle to feed an aquarium you will likely need a cga-320 flow meter. I don’t know much about aquariums, but I would assume they would need a very small amount of c02, and most welding regulators are not designed to flow super small amounts accurately. They are designed to flow cubic feet per minute, which may be too high for your use.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Hi, we use around 1 or 3 bubbles per second, that the popular measurement. Im checking aliex for a co2 aquarium regulator. a guy told me we use CGA 320 for the 9kg cylidner
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I saw a hack for that somewhere, it involved using a candle and a metal funnel or something hung under the regulator. I don't really need it in S. Louisiana though.🤔
![Mig welding with Argon and Co2 [ Etch Testing]](/img/n.gif)
I also had adventures with regulators for 25 USD. 🙃 And finally I invested in a very old Polish brand (the best on the market) for about 220 USD, except that I bought a new storage lounger for half the price. 😁 The quality of workmanship makes a difference, but it has another advantage over other regulators, it reduces the pressure from the cylinder by 2 stages. 😛 Thanks to this, it maintains a much more stable flow during long welding (end of tank). I also use quick connectors like miller for coling and gas (all types of threads and barbs are awalible), except that I also have the option of making a hose with a diameter of OD 1/4" as long as I need from a polyurethane pneumatic hose without reinforcement (standard 2m/7ft). In our country it is called Tekalen, a standard in the industry and very cheap, and it does not stretch (no balloon effect😚) and you do not lose gas because of it.
I really am just learning about welding, and your kind of introduction has lot of details I can consider. ☀🌞🌟
Brilliant!, just the info I wanted.
Glad the video helped you. If you use a cheap regulator and a better one you will understand why it's worth spending the money. Leaks, wasted gas due to inaccurate meters, etc all are issues. Treat yourself to a decent one 😀.
When you talked about quick connect fittings, I realized that most HF type welder does not have the threaded gas inlet. Much more common is the cheap straight pipe to fit a tube and hose clamp/jubilee clip. Something to be aware if quick connect couplings is important on the welder side.
Great info- I've never actually used a ball type flow meter, since the two gauge style came with my Miller.
Speaking of leak testing......I purchased a Harris O/A torch (with bottles) at auction years ago.....and had noticed a pressure loss on the acetylene side (not fast; but faster than the oxygen). I used soapy water & checked the tank/regulator/torch, and attributed it to a relatively minor leak coming out the tip of the torch..... until using it the other day when I had a "SHAKE HANDS WITH DANGER" moment 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 as the line fitting below the check valve was loose enough to leak & caught fire- All is fine (I dropped the torch & ran to shut off the acetylene bottle) but things were sure exciting for a moment...😂😂
Haha be proud you didn’t panic lol. I have heard wild stories where people didn’t go and shut the bottles down while the gas lines were wide open flying around like a whip that was on fire lol.
The ball type is definitely more accurate since it’s directly measuring the gas flow, vs a calculated cfh based on pressure. I find the main differences (and I of course failed to mention them) is the flow meter style is accurate over a broad range of tank pressures. The dial type that function off pressure tend to be more inaccurate below 1/4 tank. It’s not a huge deal if you don’t weld a lot, but if you do the savings in getting the exact flow you need can add up. It can be hard to tell the difference between 18 and say 24cfh, and over a few tanks worth of welding it will amount to a decent chunk of money.
I had an instance like that about 2 years ago with some Western Enterprise quick disconnects on oxy\acetylene torch. Like you I shut the tank valves off quickly disconnected everything. Later that day after I inspected it all I was able to put it back together and never had an issue. The leak was right at the couplers.
I bought a 20$ Amazon special for a new inverter cheapo tig welder. I thought I was having current problems with the welder but turns out I was having gas surge. There are gas saving devices to lower line pressure so I threw on a 5$ gauge regulator in line. The line pressure was something like 60 psi. I lowered it to 30 psi....I believe most welding operates @ 20-30. A 2nd double flowmeter regulator Amazon special (30$) had line pressure much closer to the ball park. I don't know if there's a way to adjust the set pressure on these but I picked up an old victor one that appears to have a hex screw for adjustment. Just something to keep in mind.....20cfh at 60 psi is much different than 20cfh @ 30 psi.
You are 100% correct on pressure vs cfh. Most ball flow meters are regulated. The ones I run are factory set to 20psi. The glass/plastic flow tube is calibrated for flow based on the regulated 20psi pressure. If the regulator ever fails the calibrations will be off, definitely worth paying attention to. That old victor you found could likely be calibrated to be accurate by adjusting that hex screw. The ones I have also have adjustability, but it’s a PITA to do and it’s pretty much assumed you wouldn’t mess with it lol.
Most regulators will have a surge of gas because the resting pressure in the closed line (welder solenoid shut) is higher than the pressure in a open line. Obviously if you had a regulator that puts out 60 like you said, that would cause all sorts of issues. If the molten pool was in existence I bet it would blow the metal around 😮.
NICE, what do you do for welding carts to move around your shop or do you leave your bottles stationary?
My bottles are chained to the walls or the work benches. I have small bottles if I need to do a job outside of my workshop. It’s so much cheaper swapping big bottles of gas over smaller ones. I only pay 75$ for a 300cuft argon tank swap out. A 125 is like 60$ lol.
I recently upgraded from a 80 ft to a 155, and the cost difference to swap them is 7 or 8 dollars. Bigger bottles pay for themselves quickly.
@@philthyphil3324 I'm getting setup for 150cf soon(fcaw and smaw so far)....anything bigger and my bad back is gonna scream
@yurimodin I think 150 is the perfect size for a home setup. Still fairly easy to load/unload, but its a good amount of volume.
@@philthyphil3324 yep, 100% worth it
The tanks I use comes with regulators so for precise flow rates I have a hand held flow meter. Little trouble I can live with. Tanks comes with quick connectors. Have the same oxy-acetylene regulators I bought 50 years ago. Never releases the adjustment. Even have the same hoses. Never leaked. They made quality products back then. Was taught that when finished gas welding or cutting to close tank valves and check pressure. When leaving (at least half an hour later for fire safety reasons) check pressure meters and then release pressure. To know if any leaks.
What country are you in and who supplies cylinders with integral regulators?
@@Comm0ut Sweden. Air Liquide. Have better price from them than from AGA (now part of Linde group). In Sweden we have a efficient exchange system for gas tanks.
Can add a bit of history. Gustaf Dahlen, Swedish founder of AGA invented the use of acetone for dissolving acetylene. Making storage of acetylene in tanks possible.He also made inventions used in unmanned lighthouses around the world.
I do have same Harris 355 flow meter like you do but found out that is nor very accurate when I tested flow on tig torch end . Actually when tested two gauge regulator the flow was more accurate than Harris . I end up to taking Allen wrench and adjusted Harris flow meter on bottom, even when sticker say don't do that. Was off like 7 CFH
Mine has been dead on, interesting yours wasn’t. Keep in mind that your gas blend affects the flow meter. Most of the regulators have multiple gases they can work with, and the density of them differs. They will place the ball at different levels/scales.
Depending on how you measured the accuracy of the meter (tig or mig gun nozzle mini flow meter) that testing meter will likely be more inaccurate than the gauge, since it may not be calibrated for the specific gas your using. For setup I generally run a #8 tig cup with a gas lens, and lower the gas flow to the point I barely get good coverage welding flat position 1/4inch steel at 120a fusion weld. It’s somewhere between 10 and 12 cfh on miller and Harris meters. All of the other meters I have with the same setup read between 8 and 18cfh.
It’s probably most important to set based on the lowest acceptable performance as a starting point, more so than actual flow. The real problem lies with the cheaper meters having serious drift as the gas bottle pressure drops. It might read 12cfh at 2k bottle pressure and 12cfh at 600psi, but it might be at 16cfh at 2k and 10 at 600. The ball type should indicate the change visually, and require you to open the valve more (better meters tend to drift less) but many of the cheap dial ones won’t say anything.
I totally agree that a ball type flow meter is the only kins that will work consistently.
Consistency is a major reason to go to them for sure. It’s nice to know what you’re dealing with is accurate, and doesn’t leak.
Harris 355 Argon/Helium (355-2Ar/He-58010) has a scale of 45 SCFH Flow Capacity instead of 70. Does it mean adjusting it will be easier and more precise? (20PSI is around the middle of the scale.)
Great question. So if the scale covers less of a range the resolution will be higher provided the scale is the same height on the tube. It would be easier to adjust it precisely because of the higher resolution. To adjust flow you turn the knob and its very precise, it’s not like some gauges that 1/16th of a turn is 10cfh.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks for the reply. Just ordered that version only because the scale is 45 instead of 70 :) I'm a newbie and I hope 45 SCFH will cover all my needs.
Other than on acetylene tank valves I've always been taught, ( according to Linde and Victor at least) to fully open the valves on oxygen and shielding gas cylinder valves and back seat them to prevent possible gas loss at the packing. I have not had issue with that practice but then I've never actually checked any of my tank valves over the decades either for a possible leak.
What are your thoughts on back seating the valve?
Some great content your putting out Greg, and at a prolific rate too I might add. Not always easy, keep it up, just don't burn yourself out in the process. LOL
Great question. So the oxygen tank I always backseat, I was taught that and due to the nature of the gas I abide by that. Now for argon and inert gasses, I generally don’t and I have never discovered a leak. I have had tanks with minor leaks from the stem/ handle, but back seating them didn’t change a thing about the leak. My general test is to pressurize a line, purge the hose through the welder, and then shut the tank valve. If after 5 minutes the pressure has barely dropped, I know there is no leak. If I do determine there is a leak I leak soapy water the valve stem/handle/regulator and most of the time it’s at the regulator threads into the valve. I have found 2 tanks (out of 100+ that leaked at the stem. A minor leak on a tank of any inert gas while you’re using it would have no danger. If you left said tank in a confined space for a week with the valve open and it had a leak it could be deadly I suppose.
Thanks for the nice comments too 😀. I won’t burn myself out. I am used to working 80-90 hours a week (48 to 60 at my normal job and 20 to 40+ on “projects”). My main project (12,000 hour restoration of a old building) came to a end last year, so I needed something to fill the gap in my time. That’s why I started shooting videos, it gave me something to do vs sitting around 😀
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Thanks Greg for the follow-up. Your comments and procedure for checking the system for leaks on the system echo mine. On new installations that are yet unproven I'll leave the system pressurized for a few hours and if it maintains the same pressure after having closed the valve I'll know it's good.
I think I may save some time and follow your lead and forego the backseating procedure on the shielding gas valves.
Sounds like you're a bit of a workaholic, much like I used to be. I went for decades were a 16 hr day was a short one. Amazing what a guy can accomplish in a week what used to take a month. Now that the yoke is off I must admit though that life in the slow lane is good too. I put off more things by 9 AM than most folks do all day. LOL
But yeah as long as you're having fun it isn't work is it.
Have a good one Greg!
@@74willy81 if it’s fun and feeds my need to build stuff it definitely isn’t work 😀. I like building stuff so doing it on my own terms at my own pace makes it tolerable lol.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Doesn't your line pressure test omit potential leak at the tank valve though since you're closing it? IOW, it wouldn't detect if 1/4 turn is leaking vs full open no?
@@idontwantcorporateretaliat6301 if you pressurize the line and then shut the tank, if the tank has a leak at the valve stem packing you will loose pressure. I have had a few tanks that were like this, mainly because the threads on the valve seat were wore plumb out and the packing was shot too. Because the tank pressure gauge on the regulator is directly reading the pressure between the seat and regulator, it will pickup a leak on a valve stem packing. If the internal seat was leaking you wouldn’t know though. Although generally you would hear it when you go to put your regulator on it because 1k psi makes a lot of noise even with a minor leak.
cant find a co2 regulator to use on my aquarium, what other can work with co2? maybe a gas regulator? gas use on kitchen
So c02 bottles commonly use a different fitting than other compressed gas bottles. Larger co2 bottles use cga-320 fittings and most small to medium compressed gas cylinders use cga-580. If you want to use a larger gas bottle to feed an aquarium you will likely need a cga-320 flow meter. I don’t know much about aquariums, but I would assume they would need a very small amount of c02, and most welding regulators are not designed to flow super small amounts accurately. They are designed to flow cubic feet per minute, which may be too high for your use.
@@makingmistakeswithgreg Hi, we use around 1 or 3 bubbles per second, that the popular measurement. Im checking aliex for a co2 aquarium regulator. a guy told me we use CGA 320 for the 9kg cylidner
I do wish I had a Co2 heater
I do too on my off road tire filling tank. Trying to fill a 38+ in tire slows my regulator a lot due to flow rate 😅
@@makingmistakeswithgreg I saw a hack for that somewhere, it involved using a candle and a metal funnel or something hung under the regulator. I don't really need it in S. Louisiana though.🤔
Jesse Ventura talking flow meters