The problem with aviation oils is the lack of metalic detergents, as opposed to car oils... Detergents fight accidification in oils. The acids leads humidity to touch the metals and that IS what makes rust. A car oil with 50 hours of operation use has less accidification than an aviation oil with only 15 hours, because of detergents on it. Aviation oils has Just dispersants and It can't fight the produced acids.
So to summarise, everything we learned about automotive engines just do the opposite. PS full synthetics have been standard in diesel car applications for many years.
I've been using aeroshell 15 50 during the winter in St. Paul Minnesota. I will try the Phillips 20 50 along with the cam guard that you recommend instead. Hopefully this will keep the gunk from forming. A clump came out of my breather tube last spring. I use w100 in the warmer months. Do you recommend adding the cam guard to the w100 as well? Thanks for doing these videos. I have a 1956 Cessna 182 with a Continental O -470-g with 375 SMO. It's my first plane.
I am now thinking the same. I have been running Aeroshell multi grade since overhaul but now think Phillips xc with camgaurd is a better option. What about the fact or myth of not changing from brand (aeroshell) to another Phillips? More myth than fact?
I have been told hot. If it sits too long after reaching normal operating temp, the sludge goes out of suspension/to bottom of pan, and won't get drained out. Sludge is a problem for our air cooled engines. Here's what I've learned to do in my Mooney w 4 banger Lycoming. After landing and hangaring plane, I immediately pull off cowling and attach hose to drain and open. After at least 1 quart flows into bucket, I take oil sample (for oil analysis). Then I leave and come back next day. At this point, when I remove oil filter, very little oil comes out of filter! I don't even have to wash engine down like I used to. (previously, I would drain oil for a few minutes, then remove filter making a HUGE mess).
@@Randy29209 GOOD PLAN!!! I let the oil drain for a couple hours and the filter is mostly empty. Oil drains from filters that are horizontal but not hanging vertical below the attachment, so when you start an engine, keep the RPM low, less than 1,000 rpm, until the oil has filled the filter and is pumping through the engine and lubrication has sufficiently started. Lycoming says do not run the engine above 1,900 rpm until the oil temperature is at least 140F. They say warm up at about 900 to a maximum of 1,200 rpm until the oil temperature is sufficient. During the run-up the oil temperature will increase. Cycle the propeller through the full travel a number of times to keep sludge from building up in the full travel of the piston in the propeller. I usually make about 5 full travels of the propeller range and like to have the Oil Temperature above 160F before take-off. I have very little engine wear problems.
Mike what do you think of Microlon Engine Treatment Kit for airplanes ? I watch all your videos and have learned a lot about my airplane by just watching your videos. I know you promote Cam guard so ever oil change now I use it. What’s your thoughts on Microlon?
God love him (Mike Busch, that is), After listening to his webinar on Engines (replete with P a u s e s...) and a significant number of “uhs” as time fillers, I hauled out my runners lap counter (also used by museum security guards to count & track gallery visitors) then became distracted by a Grandchild entering my office sometimes after 511 clicks
Mike, you always have a LOT of good information, BUT, when you are suggesting that people carry LESS oil in the crankcase that is required by regulation and the manufacturer, you are leaving yourself hanging out for a great liability. Crankcase OIL CAPACITY is determined by the quantity of FUEL that the tanks can hold. Look at the CAR3 regulations that most general aviation aircraft have been designed under. The MINIMUM Oil Quantity is 75% of the required Oil Capacity of the Oil System, such as the 12 quarts in the Lycoming 540 series or the Continental 520 / 550 series. I have heard the "old pilot's tale" of the engine blowing out oil, but I have never had that problem with any aircraft engine of any size. The minimum oil quantity for any take off is 75% of the Sump Capacity. MORE Oil also gives better cooling. IF an oil leak or engine problem causes excessive oil consumption, the possibility of loss of oil pressure is much greater if someone starts out with less than the minimum quantity of oil, such as 60%, than they would if they started out with 100% of the oil capacity. Your statements have put you into a bad liability situation.
Good information about capacity. I always keep it 1 qt low. Didn't know lower is ok.
exccelent explanation
The problem with aviation oils is the lack of metalic detergents, as opposed to car oils... Detergents fight accidification in oils. The acids leads humidity to touch the metals and that IS what makes rust. A car oil with 50 hours of operation use has less accidification than an aviation oil with only 15 hours, because of detergents on it. Aviation oils has Just dispersants and It can't fight the produced acids.
Is all corrosion related to combustion products (water vapor) in the engine and oil?
So to summarise, everything we learned about automotive engines just do the opposite.
PS full synthetics have been standard in diesel car applications for many years.
Diesel engines doesn't make 6,000 ppm of lead in 25 hours of operation, unless it is failing.
I've been using aeroshell 15 50 during the winter in St. Paul Minnesota. I will try the Phillips 20 50 along with the cam guard that you recommend instead. Hopefully this will keep the gunk from forming. A clump came out of my breather tube last spring. I use w100 in the warmer months. Do you recommend adding the cam guard to the w100 as well? Thanks for doing these videos. I have a 1956 Cessna 182 with a Continental O -470-g with 375 SMO. It's my first plane.
I am now thinking the same. I have been running Aeroshell multi grade since overhaul but now think Phillips xc with camgaurd is a better option. What about the fact or myth of not changing from brand (aeroshell) to another Phillips? More myth than fact?
Very good
Should you change the oil on warm or cold engine?
I have been told hot. If it sits too long after reaching normal operating temp, the sludge goes out of suspension/to bottom of pan, and won't get drained out. Sludge is a problem for our air cooled engines.
Here's what I've learned to do in my Mooney w 4 banger Lycoming. After landing and hangaring plane, I immediately pull off cowling and attach hose to drain and open. After at least 1 quart flows into bucket, I take oil sample (for oil analysis). Then I leave and come back next day. At this point, when I remove oil filter, very little oil comes out of filter! I don't even have to wash engine down like I used to. (previously, I would drain oil for a few minutes, then remove filter making a HUGE mess).
@@Randy29209 GOOD PLAN!!! I let the oil drain for a couple hours and the filter is mostly empty. Oil drains from filters that are horizontal but not hanging vertical below the attachment, so when you start an engine, keep the RPM low, less than 1,000 rpm, until the oil has filled the filter and is pumping through the engine and lubrication has sufficiently started. Lycoming says do not run the engine above 1,900 rpm until the oil temperature is at least 140F. They say warm up at about 900 to a maximum of 1,200 rpm until the oil temperature is sufficient. During the run-up the oil temperature will increase. Cycle the propeller through the full travel a number of times to keep sludge from building up in the full travel of the piston in the propeller. I usually make about 5 full travels of the propeller range and like to have the Oil Temperature above 160F before take-off. I have very little engine wear problems.
Mike what do you think of Microlon Engine Treatment Kit for airplanes ? I watch all your videos and have learned a lot about my airplane by just watching your videos. I know you promote Cam guard so ever oil change now I use it. What’s your thoughts on Microlon?
Microlon is PTFE, aka Teflon, do not use it. Do some reading on the problem with Teflon.
What about cam guard?
Clearly you didn't watch the video.
God love him (Mike Busch, that is), After listening to his webinar on Engines (replete with P a u s e s...) and a significant number of “uhs” as time fillers, I hauled out my runners lap counter (also used by museum security guards to count & track gallery visitors) then became distracted by a Grandchild entering my office sometimes after 511 clicks
“sometimes” should have been “some time”
Mike, you always have a LOT of good information, BUT, when you are suggesting that people carry LESS oil in the crankcase that is required by regulation and the manufacturer, you are leaving yourself hanging out for a great liability. Crankcase OIL CAPACITY is determined by the quantity of FUEL that the tanks can hold. Look at the CAR3 regulations that most general aviation aircraft have been designed under. The MINIMUM Oil Quantity is 75% of the required Oil Capacity of the Oil System, such as the 12 quarts in the Lycoming 540 series or the Continental 520 / 550 series. I have heard the "old pilot's tale" of the engine blowing out oil, but I have never had that problem with any aircraft engine of any size. The minimum oil quantity for any take off is 75% of the Sump Capacity. MORE Oil also gives better cooling. IF an oil leak or engine problem causes excessive oil consumption, the possibility of loss of oil pressure is much greater if someone starts out with less than the minimum quantity of oil, such as 60%, than they would if they started out with 100% of the oil capacity. Your statements have put you into a bad liability situation.
Great information. One thought GA pilots have is to fill more oil in hot summer months because it helps cool the engine better. Myth?