I had a great time going through bees and discussing Formic Pro use with Tom. If you have any additional questions about the product you can ask them here. Hopefully Tom will see it and be able to address your concerns.
Glad you enjoyed it Ian. Hope it was helpful. I think I am going to give it a try. Though it still makes me nervous. Of course the Apiguard made me a bit nervous last year as well but it turned out ok.
💯. Last year I had the dilemma of what to use with the pollination bees. OAV is somewhat ineffective for knocking down numbers of mites if brood in the colony. Apivar takes too long. Apiguard and Formic are options. Formic is a 14 day treatment. I will be ok will a little slow down when they come back. Then hope they come out of treatment clean and ready to explode. We shall see.
Well its good to bring the ship up to speed while scientist keep working it out. They are hard to correct if Mites eat the bees liver while growing and grown up walking around making the bees sick on top of not living as long.
@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog Thanks for the kind comment, Ian. I am looking forward to getting together with you at the end of the month at the Manitoba Beekeepers Conference. I am confident that working Formic Pro into your IPM program will be beneficial for your operation.
Thank you for doing this interview. Been on the fence on even trying formic but would definitely feel comfortable trying it after this. Will definitely be adding formic to my tool belt! Thanks again Bruce!!
Bruce, this is an outstanding interview in my book. This information has answered some of my questions. I am about to use formic for the 3rd time in a few weeks. Overall I love this product. I could see a clear difference in my colonies post application. There is another in our local club that has had great success with formic pro. We are about 70 miles north of tuscaloosa, al.
Good stuff Bruce. What an opportunity to sit and chat with Tom. I’ve used Formic Pro, and it does scare me. Our weather fluctuates so much in Ohio anymore it could be 68 one day and 88 the next. Definitely is a great product though if used in proper conditions.
Yes I think I am going to try it. The key is that temps don’t exceed high end for 3 days. After that it seems it will be ok. Most of the treatment occurs in those first 3 days if I understand correctly.
I agree Castle Hives. Temps here in NYC fluctuate as well considering climate change. We just gotta bee careful with the weather forecast with this product. I use it too. Looking forward to another epic beekeeping season. Cheers !
Thank you Bruce on allowing Tom to explain how to use Formic Pro I used Formic Pro on one of my hives way past the temperature ramifications southern Oklahoma it was in the high 90s probably around 96-98 degrees. I kept the entrance wide open and vented the top. The bees definitely didn’t like it and hung on the outside of the hive. Luckily I had a queen less than a year old. After the 2 strip method between two deeps for 14 day a piece on the brood. The hive took off and and I could have taken another 70lbs of honey off but left it for the winter and this spring it is the strongest hive I have.
Great educational video. If you put 2 pads in between a double deep and 1 or 2 pads on top of the other deep you will definitely create a brood break! Don't ask me how I know. Lol! What's crazy is I have been using Formic Pro for 3 years. This will be my fourth but completely had a brain malfunction and I was rushing when treating last year. One thing was certain is that I definitely cleaned up the mite issue. Geez. All of my hives but 2 made it through with a smaller colony but rebounded nicely by winter. Definitely a great product if all the guidelines Mr. Nolan discussed in this video are followed. Great queens, dead mites and great nutrition is key to success as Kamon Reynolds tells us.
Bruce, Tom, I used " MAQS" 10-12 years ago. Baton Rouge area. Bought enough to treat all the hives i owned. Mistake. Treated one yard first. Out of 30 or so hives I probably had 15 queen events. Threw away the rest of the treatments. It was many years before I tried it again. Been using "FormicPro" in the spring for 2 years. Ocasional 90⁰ highs during treatments. Offset 1/2" lives like Tom said . It works fine. I'm happy with results. From what Tom said I have been putting too much. If I had 2 brood boxes of bees I have been putting in 4 treatments. Thanks for info.
Bruce this video has been so needed! Bless you for filming! Even I as a northern beekeeper using MAQS for years (no queen loss and queens live 3 years having had multiple treatments) I learned a thing or two from the discussion. Spot on with the issue of brood loss and perhaps the queen stopping laying I've witnessed this every time with applications but the good news is the hives are healthier, more productivity and brilliant (to steal a word from Ian) after treatment. Will be sharing youtube link with club members.
Really great that you've got an expert on this stuff talking about the risks and best practices. Sure, it might not be the right treatment for everyone but better that decision is informed by facts rather than I heard this and that about it"
@@brucesbees I am in Massachusetts. I just pulled supers and it just happened that the weather turned nice and cooler in the high 70s to 80s so I jumped at the chance. Otherwise I would have gone with Apiguard. I can't believe how much anxiety mites cause me!
Formic Pro saved my apiary when Apivar failed in the late summer/fall 2021. FP is now part of our mite treatment program and our colonies looked awesome going into winter 2022-23.
The 3 day window below 85 was great info, there were multiple times that I could have used it here in NC in late spring. This fall we will test it out!
Great Joey. Glad you enjoyed it and that we addressed your concerns. Tom is very good at resolving concerns so folks can make well-informed decisions about whether or not to use Formic Pro.
Educating people on more ways to treat mites. Doing beekeepers a great service with this video. And Tom being up front with the advantages and disadvantages of formic pro sure helps :)
Formic pro has it's appropriate times to use. But below 50 deg during the day is not one of them. If the bees can't fly the vapor is way to strong and I've had whole bee yards of queens become drone layers because of the temperature being to cool. Again not knocking formic pro. Just the instructions really really need to be followed. The stuff works. It just demands respect.
I used the formic last year and it was hard on my bees cut em way back seemed like over half of my bees requeened but this year I'm looking at 100 percent right now on the treated with formic pro bees but some may still die being we have more winter weather to come for sure
Really enjoyed the information. The superseding of queen and using Formica pro was interesting. This has always been a concern but it could be a good thing to cull weak queens especially used early spring. Thanks for the video. Take care.
Thank you for this great video! I've been using Formic Pro for 4 years now here in Central New York. Question 1 - What is the recommended use of Formic Pro on a 30 frame Langstroth long hive? Question 2 - Is there any advantage to 2 strip method versus 1 strip method? I've done both but prefer the 2 strip method as it's one less time lifting heavy boxes.
Thanks so much for watching. Maybe Tim will be able to see and respond to this comment. As far as question 1 goes I am not sure what to tell you. We touched Question 2 a little bit in the video but if still unclear maybe Tom will be able to clarify a bit more.
Hi David, thanks for the comment and the questions. Question 1 - Our Honey Bee Health Researcher Dr. Heather Broccard-Bell has been do some trials with Formic Pro on horizontal hives, long Langstroth hives, and Layens hives. I can send you some links via pm. Question 2 - Yes the advantage with the two strip method is that this is the recommended method to kill mites below the brood cap. This is the method I use when I have strong colonies with lots of capped brood and my mite levels are at or over the recommended treatment threshold for my area.
I'm curious about 8 frame hives. I'm a first year North Oregon coast beekeeper. I got two very strong NUCS at the end of April. This past weekend May 18th, 6 of my 8 frames were full of bees so I added a second brood box. Just did my first my mite check this weekend as well and had a very high mite count, almost 7% in both hives. Our current temps are low 40's at night with high 50's during the day but this weekend we are getting into the 70's for a while. Would two strips per hive be too much in a case like this? I was thinking of maybe doing 1 strip for ten days followed by a second strip for ten days although I really want to do the two for 14. Just curious what your thoughts are on this.
@disillusioned070 haha! I probably look at my phone too much!🐝😎 But I do like to respond as soon as I can. I appreciate all who watch and feel like you deserve as much of my attention as I can give. Thanks so much for being a part of the community.
i used it on 5 colonies in late fall,since my OA, vaporizor was stolen,i had this formic pro,aporoaching it's 2 yr shelf life,they have survived,and appear queenright,use care handling,i did leave half the foil wrapper on 14 days,for a slow release
Great question! This is what I found online: “feeding of any type that comes in contact with the hive (frame, hive-top feeder) is NOT recommended during treatment. Barrel feeding is acceptable. For optimal success with Formic Pro, ensure your bees are well nourished before treatment.”
It might be helpful to emphasize the mortality risk associated with the use of expired product. Occasionally retailers will mark down or otherwise recommend the use of these products. RJB, Veterinarian
Thanks for the heads up. It’s always a good idea to not use expired product. Didn’t even think to ask that question even though I tried it think of everything I could.
I used this on 2 thriving hives. Tested for mites and found 0. Thought Id treat for mites just in case . It was the beginning of fall. Outside temp nice within the suggested safe treatment temperature. Had good ventilation. Started with two strips. 30 Hrs later not 2 days or 2 weeks later, 30 hrs i had 2 dead queens on the ground and approx 250 bees per hive. If they know it will kill queens why is this info not more available.
@@brucesbees 2 ten frame hives . I thought that maybe i had gotten a box of strips that might have had too much of the chemical during production. I was asked for the lot number but that was as far as it went. They were not interested to test the strips. I have no confidence it is a safe product . And to think he said it was safe to leave honey on during a treatment that kills.
Bruce , Formic Pro is a good product and the people at NOD will help you with issues. I have killed queens with it but it was when temperature shot up unexpectedly. Your plan of using it early is good if temps are low but I would shoot for no higher than 80° to be safe and they will stop laying. I didn't want chance cutting honey production. I'm hoping they legalize extended release oxalic so I can use that. Randy Oliver is doing a lot of testing on that and it looks good. Dick Brickner is also testing it in Tennessee. It has shown to keep mite numbers low while it's on , then after honey pull and temps get low enough, use the formic. Randy Oliver has a model on his site you can use. The one that Ian Stepper used on his video.
Hi, Thomas. Thanks for the comment and pointing out that oversight. One of the reasons that the founders of NOD Apiary Products developed the Mite Away Quick Strips and now Formic Pro was the need for a safer alternative than the liquid formic acid. Both Mite Away Quick Strips and Formic Pro and very safe to use when following some simple safety procedures with proper PPE. You do not want the strips to come into contact with skin, so long sleeves are recommended as well as using suitable formic acid resistant gloves (PVC, neoprene, or nitrile). I personally use the disposable nitrile gloves. Unlike vaporizing with oxalic acid a respirator is not required. When opening the sachet to remove the pads it is recommended to hold the sachet away from your face by extending your arms. It is also a good idea that if it is a windy day to open the sachet with the winding blowing the vapours away. A complete over view of application instructions including PPE requirements can be found on our website www.nodglobal.com
Great video, one question, I’ve heard with single brood box you shouldn’t treat without adding at least a medium box, can you confirm or can I treat with a single 10 frame deep? Thanks Bruce!
Hi Todd, thanks for the comment and they question. I run single 10 frame boxes all year. I also almost always treat with 2 strips. In my area when running single brood boxes it is part of my management to super very early in the spring. So even when i do my spring treatment of Formic Pro I always have at least one or two medium supers on. When I treat mid summer I usually have a honey super or two on as well. The only time I put two strips on a single brood box is when going through a growth period, I did not have any supers so I treated a few singles without a super, but I don't recommend doing this. I really think the super helps by giving the bees room to expand the cluster and to move away from from the vapours which makes the treatment a bit less stressful on the colony.
You know we discussed it a bit earlier in the day. Certainly would have been a good idea to ask him for the video. Maybe he will see this question and respond.
MAQS uses a gel like base that the formic acid is applied to and off gasses a little faster than the formic pro hence the shorter treatment time. Formic pro uses a saw dust/wood chip base and has a slightly longer release time and so the treatment is a few days longer than the MAQS. Both use formic acid, both are temp dependent, both are biodegradable, the only difference is treatment time.
Hi Srae, thanks for the comment. The reason that NOD Apiary Products developed Formic Pro was to address two of the challenges we had with the Mite Away Quick Strips. 1- Mite Away Quick Strips had a 12 month shelf life. This was a big challenge for our resellers as well as some of our large commercial users. 2- Mite Away Quick Strips also had to be stored below 77F (25C) away from direct sunlight. This could be a real challenge for resellers and commercial users who do not have climate controlled storage facilities. This is especially a problem for beekeepers in the south who may be storing strips in hot barns, metal sheds, or even leaving product in vehicles for extended periods of time. If Mite Away Quick Strips was stored properly and used within the 12 month expiry period it was and still is an excellent product. I used Mite Away Quick Strips for several years before Formic Pro was developed. So to answer these two challenges NOD developed Formic Pro. By adding some organic binders to the Mite Away Quick Strips formulation. NOD developed a product that now has a 24 month shelf life and is not affected by storage temperature. Formic Pro just needs to be stored out of direct sunlight in a dry location. For these two reasons I believe Formic Pro is ideally suited for beekeepers in the southern states. Again you can find more info on our website. www.nodglobal.com
Formic pro killed every bee in my hive about 40000. Used as directed. 70 degrees day. Would never use that again. Might as well pour gasoline on beehive
This is Bruce from brucesbees. I aam not a spokesperson for the product. Tom is. I have never used it. But I am open minded and willing to listen to various sides of the story. And I believe the best way to learn about something is to go straight to the source. I had many questions. Tom answered them. Didn’t sugar coat anything. I don’t recommend anyone use it or not use it. Each person should weigh the pros and cons and do what is best for them. I am still nervous about this product. I am probably going to try it. To me it is simply another tool in the toolbox. If you watched the video you would see that is the direction we went with the interview. Honestly I don’t care if people use it or not. I am not sure why your bees died and I hate to hear it. But I have had many comments in this thread of people who have had positive results. I hope you can figure out a solution that works better for you. This having been said I really appreciate you watching my channel. I do at times share what I am using and if I like a product I will provide a link or may even recommend it. I feel like folks watch the channel to see what I am doing and maybe get some ideas. But I never expect anyone to think they have to do one thing or another. As Mike Barry says my channel is mostly about “how I do” and not “how to.” I am simply a beekeeper sharing my story. Just out here doing my best to keep the bugs in a box alive and healthy. Just like everyone else. I still have a long way to go.
The product label doesn’t say anything about using in certain humidity levels. I’ve never heard of or have had any issues in high or low humidity levels. I use it in the humid early spring and warm dry late summer in my location.
Yep everybody has to figure out their own deal. I know a lot of people have used it with success. But I have also heard some folks that had issues. I always recommend folks talk to Tom and see if he can help figure out what is going on. Interestingly it sounds like in Ian’s case some breeds of queens have had no issues with it and others struggle. When I did this interview I was just trying to get some questions answered. It’s up to each person to figure out what they want to do with it.
@@brucesbees I somewhat wonder if there's a relationship between queens raised from keepers that use formic and have accidentally made queens that are formic tolerate. Seems Ian never used it and his raised queens got kicked hard, which is the same experience I had with my limited treatment queens. I know randy oliver uses formic now and seemed his queens weren't affected much in Ians experiment. Could be Toms bees have been bred to be tolerate as well. It's hard to have a conclusion on the matter, seems some keepers stick with it and find a method that works (could simply be they bred resistance while developing a method) or keepers like myself they get burnt hard and can't risk using it again.
@stuffnsuch631 makes sense but I am really not sure. My preferred treatments are Apivar and OAV. But not opposed to using the Formic Pro again if I need to try a different approach. Hopefully as genetics evolve bees will become more naturally resistant to all the problems. It is good to see so many people attacking the problem from so many different angles.
I have not heard a response to that but imagine it would be ok as long as hive strength is sufficient and there is plenty of ventilation. But I am not very familiar with Layens hives
@@brucesbees Not yet. I have read up on formic acid from the information provided by the Honey Bee Health Coalition and listened to Tom talk about it at a few shows. I would like to give it a try.
The window will close pretty quickly here but I think I will try it out on my pollination bees when they return. Should be a good time to give it a try. Much later than that and it may get too hot.
It is known to be good pracrice to rotate chemical treatments as to avoid creating a treatment resistant organism. You mention treating with formic twice per year, and jumping to conclusions as i imagine the testing process doesnt want other variables while determining the efficacy or your product. Is there a chance your practices of developing new treatments is in fact also breeding resistant mites?
Not sure if Tom will see this but I don’t think he is at all opposed to people use of all the tools in the toolbox. I think it is definitely wise to rotate as you suggest. Thanks for checking in.
I think that yes the bees can build up a resistance to some of the treatments and have in the past. Not sure if they can actually build up a resistance to Formic Acid. Are you asking if it is flawed to treat period due to the ability of mites to become resistant? I know there are people working how to eliminate mites most effectively and there are others working on breeding mite resistant bees. I think that two tiered approach is the best way to move forward. Not sure if this answers your question? What are your thoughts of the best way to move forward?
But the direct answer to your question is…probably. But the only way to overcome something is to attack it and adjust as needed to get better. I am curious as to what your opinion is on the matter and what might be a better approach in your opinion.
Good to know. I probably just need to go ahead and order some. Still makes me a little nervous. But I feel way better about to now than I did in the past.
I had a great time going through bees and discussing Formic Pro use with Tom. If you have any additional questions about the product you can ask them here. Hopefully Tom will see it and be able to address your concerns.
Tom is a stand up guy, he dosent hide anything, straight talk. That’s what beekeepers want 👍
Glad you enjoyed it Ian. Hope it was helpful. I think I am going to give it a try. Though it still makes me nervous. Of course the Apiguard made me a bit nervous last year as well but it turned out ok.
It’s all about teaching ourselves how to appropriately use our product options . I missed the window on earning that experience… until now :)
💯. Last year I had the dilemma of what to use with the pollination bees. OAV is somewhat ineffective for knocking down numbers of mites if brood in the colony. Apivar takes too long. Apiguard and Formic are options. Formic is a 14 day treatment. I will be ok will a little slow down when they come back. Then hope they come out of treatment clean and ready to explode. We shall see.
Well its good to bring the ship up to speed while scientist keep working it out. They are hard to correct if Mites eat the bees liver while growing and grown up walking around making the bees sick on top of not living as long.
@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog Thanks for the kind comment, Ian. I am looking forward to getting together with you at the end of the month at the Manitoba Beekeepers Conference. I am confident that working Formic Pro into your IPM program will be beneficial for your operation.
Thank you for doing this interview. Been on the fence on even trying formic but would definitely feel comfortable trying it after this. Will definitely be adding formic to my tool belt! Thanks again Bruce!!
Bruce, this is an outstanding interview in my book. This information has answered some of my questions. I am about to use formic for the 3rd time in a few weeks. Overall I love this product. I could see a clear difference in my colonies post application. There is another in our local club that has had great success with formic pro. We are about 70 miles north of tuscaloosa, al.
Hey thanks for this comment. Glad you enjoyed the interview. I need to get some ordered.
What a great interview.
Thanks Jason. It was a good day.
Good stuff Bruce. What an opportunity to sit and chat with Tom. I’ve used Formic Pro, and it does scare me. Our weather fluctuates so much in Ohio anymore it could be 68 one day and 88 the next. Definitely is a great product though if used in proper conditions.
Yes I think I am going to try it. The key is that temps don’t exceed high end for 3 days. After that it seems it will be ok. Most of the treatment occurs in those first 3 days if I understand correctly.
I agree Castle Hives. Temps here in NYC fluctuate as well considering climate change. We just gotta bee careful with the weather forecast with this product. I use it too. Looking forward to another epic beekeeping season. Cheers !
Hi Brian, thanks for the comment. I plan to be in Ohio the second week of March. Perhaps we can get together for a chat. I will send you a pm.
@@Hivetown That would be great. My email is brian.koper@gmail.com
Great interview Bruce! You and Tom did a real nice job!
Thanks Greg. Lots of fun.
Thank you Bruce on allowing Tom to explain how to use Formic Pro
I used Formic Pro on one of my hives way past the temperature ramifications
southern Oklahoma it was in the high 90s probably around 96-98 degrees.
I kept the entrance wide open and vented the top. The bees definitely didn’t like it and hung on the outside of the
hive. Luckily I had a queen less than a year old.
After the 2 strip method between two deeps for 14 day a piece on the brood.
The hive took off and and I could have taken another 70lbs of honey off but left it for the winter
and this spring it is the strongest hive I have.
Good to know. Thanks for checking in. It was great having Tom here to explain.
Thanks for the great info guys.
Thanks for checking in
Great educational video. If you put 2 pads in between a double deep and 1 or 2 pads on top of the other deep you will definitely create a brood break! Don't ask me how I know. Lol! What's crazy is I have been using Formic Pro for 3 years. This will be my fourth but completely had a brain malfunction and I was rushing when treating last year. One thing was certain is that I definitely cleaned up the mite issue. Geez. All of my hives but 2 made it through with a smaller colony but rebounded nicely by winter. Definitely a great product if all the guidelines Mr. Nolan discussed in this video are followed. Great queens, dead mites and great nutrition is key to success as Kamon Reynolds tells us.
Bruce, Tom, I used " MAQS" 10-12 years ago. Baton Rouge area. Bought enough to treat all the hives i owned. Mistake. Treated one yard first. Out of 30 or so hives I probably had 15 queen events. Threw away the rest of the treatments. It was many years before I tried it again. Been using "FormicPro" in the spring for 2 years. Ocasional 90⁰ highs during treatments. Offset 1/2" lives like Tom said . It works fine. I'm happy with results. From what Tom said I have been putting too much. If I had 2 brood boxes of bees I have been putting in 4 treatments. Thanks for info.
Thanks for checking in.
Great interview! I've always been nervous about using it but may give it a try this year. Thanks for sharing!
Yeah I am still a bit nervous but may just give it a try.
Bruce this video has been so needed! Bless you for filming! Even I as a northern beekeeper using MAQS for years (no queen loss and queens live 3 years having had multiple treatments) I learned a thing or two from the discussion. Spot on with the issue of brood loss and perhaps the queen stopping laying I've witnessed this every time with applications but the good news is the hives are healthier, more productivity and brilliant (to steal a word from Ian) after treatment. Will be sharing youtube link with club members.
Great. Thanks. I hope it goes well for me. I think I am going to give it a try.
Really great that you've got an expert on this stuff talking about the risks and best practices. Sure, it might not be the right treatment for everyone but better that decision is informed by facts rather than I heard this and that about it"
I agree. I am grateful Tom reached out to me. I am a lot less nervous about the product than o was before.
The stuff works. Keep an eye of temps and you will be fine.
That has been my experience in the few colonies I have used it in. Excited to have a new tool in the toolbox.
@@brucesbees I am in Massachusetts. I just pulled supers and it just happened that the weather turned nice and cooler in the high 70s to 80s so I jumped at the chance. Otherwise I would have gone with Apiguard. I can't believe how much anxiety mites cause me!
Yes. Down here mites and beetles are the definite cause of anxiety.
@@brucesbees They are so nasty.
Yes. SHB slime outs are absolutely disgusting!
I put a strip on my 5 frame hives, no problems yet.
Formic Pro saved my apiary when Apivar failed in the late summer/fall 2021. FP is now part of our mite treatment program and our colonies looked awesome going into winter 2022-23.
I am gaining confidence and am less concerned. I think I’m gonna try it.
The 3 day window below 85 was great info, there were multiple times that I could have used it here in NC in late spring. This fall we will test it out!
With my brief experience it seems like the bees are back to business as usual within a couple of days.
No, it kills too many bees no matter the temperature. Also high rates of queen supercedures and I live in Michigan.
Ok.
I think every question I have ever heard asked about this product just got answered in this video.
Great Joey. Glad you enjoyed it and that we addressed your concerns. Tom is very good at resolving concerns so folks can make well-informed decisions about whether or not to use Formic Pro.
Educating people on more ways to treat mites. Doing beekeepers a great service with this video. And Tom being up front with the advantages and disadvantages of formic pro sure helps :)
Good stuff Bruce, lots of good info that many beekeepers can use. Nice interview.
Thanks Grayson.
That was a great video! Thanks so much for clearing that up Tom and Bruce. Great info.
Formic pro has it's appropriate times to use. But below 50 deg during the day is not one of them. If the bees can't fly the vapor is way to strong and I've had whole bee yards of queens become drone layers because of the temperature being to cool.
Again not knocking formic pro. Just the instructions really really need to be followed. The stuff works. It just demands respect.
Agreed
I used the formic last year and it was hard on my bees cut em way back seemed like over half of my bees requeened but this year I'm looking at 100 percent right now on the treated with formic pro bees but some may still die being we have more winter weather to come for sure
Thanks for the input.
First year Beekeepers and used last spring with success. I enjoyed video
Thanks for watching and for checking in.
Great interview Bruce, we appreciate you taking the time!
Really enjoyed the information. The superseding of queen and using Formica pro was interesting. This has always been a concern but it could be a good thing to cull weak queens especially used early spring. Thanks for the video. Take care.
Could be. It all depends on goals and what you are trying to accomplish.
Would definitely freak some people out. But if willing to risk it possibly a chance to identify and replace weak queens.
Another great video. Cleared up a lot of questions thank you and keep the videos coming.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it
Tommy is in the South!
Thank you for this great video! I've been using Formic Pro for 4 years now here in Central New York.
Question 1 - What is the recommended use of Formic Pro on a 30 frame Langstroth long hive?
Question 2 - Is there any advantage to 2 strip method versus 1 strip method? I've done both but prefer the 2 strip method as it's one less time lifting heavy boxes.
Thanks so much for watching. Maybe Tim will be able to see and respond to this comment. As far as question 1 goes I am not sure what to tell you. We touched Question 2 a little bit in the video but if still unclear maybe Tom will be able to clarify a bit more.
@@brucesbees thank you
Hi David, thanks for the comment and the questions.
Question 1 - Our Honey Bee Health Researcher Dr. Heather Broccard-Bell has been do some trials with Formic Pro on horizontal hives, long Langstroth hives, and Layens hives. I can send you some links via pm.
Question 2 - Yes the advantage with the two strip method is that this is the recommended method to kill mites below the brood cap. This is the method I use when I have strong colonies with lots of capped brood and my mite levels are at or over the recommended treatment threshold for my area.
I'm curious about 8 frame hives. I'm a first year North Oregon coast beekeeper. I got two very strong NUCS at the end of April. This past weekend May 18th, 6 of my 8 frames were full of bees so I added a second brood box. Just did my first my mite check this weekend as well and had a very high mite count, almost 7% in both hives. Our current temps are low 40's at night with high 50's during the day but this weekend we are getting into the 70's for a while. Would two strips per hive be too much in a case like this? I was thinking of maybe doing 1 strip for ten days followed by a second strip for ten days although I really want to do the two for 14. Just curious what your thoughts are on this.
Grata question! I reached out to Tom. Hopefully he will respond soon.
@@brucesbees Wow, Thank you very much for the quick response.
@disillusioned070 haha! I probably look at my phone too much!🐝😎 But I do like to respond as soon as I can. I appreciate all who watch and feel like you deserve as much of my attention as I can give. Thanks so much for being a part of the community.
i used it on 5 colonies in late fall,since my OA, vaporizor was stolen,i had this formic pro,aporoaching it's 2 yr shelf life,they have survived,and appear queenright,use care handling,i did leave half the foil wrapper on 14 days,for a slow release
Is it too late to use this material in Slocomb Alabama because if heat
If highs are above 85 degrees it is too hot.
Hi, Tom I am still at Elmgrove , 15 hives moving to Polystyrene boxes this Spring.
Can I use this product when I feed my bees?
Great question! This is what I found online: “feeding of any type that comes in contact with the hive (frame, hive-top feeder) is NOT recommended during treatment. Barrel feeding is acceptable. For optimal success with Formic Pro, ensure your bees are well nourished before treatment.”
Awesome, video! Lots of information I appreciate this one.
Here I am in New Jersey, waiting for it to get warm enough so I can use formic.
It might be helpful to emphasize the mortality risk associated with the use of expired product. Occasionally retailers will mark down or otherwise recommend the use of these products.
RJB, Veterinarian
Thanks for the heads up. It’s always a good idea to not use expired product. Didn’t even think to ask that question even though I tried it think of everything I could.
Great info! I've always been scared to use this product, but I will definitely be giving it a go this fall!
I hear ya. I am still a little nervous. I just have to remember that it does shut down queen laying for a few days and plan accordingly.
I used this on 2 thriving hives. Tested for mites and found 0. Thought Id treat for mites just in case . It was the beginning of fall. Outside temp nice within the suggested safe treatment temperature. Had good ventilation. Started with two strips. 30 Hrs later not 2 days or 2 weeks later, 30 hrs i had 2 dead queens on the ground and approx 250 bees per hive. If they know it will kill queens why is this info not more available.
Thanks for sharing. I am interested in hearing from folks that have had both positive and negative experiences.
What size colonies were you treating?
@@brucesbees 2 ten frame hives . I thought that maybe i had gotten a box of strips that might have had too much of the chemical during production. I was asked for the lot number but that was as far as it went. They were not interested to test the strips. I have no confidence it is a safe product . And to think he said it was safe to leave honey on during a treatment that kills.
Bruce , Formic Pro is a good product and the people at NOD will help you with issues. I have killed queens with it but it was when temperature shot up unexpectedly. Your plan of using it early is good if temps are low but I would shoot for no higher than 80° to be safe and they will stop laying. I didn't want chance cutting honey production.
I'm hoping they legalize extended release oxalic so I can use that. Randy Oliver is doing a lot of testing on that and it looks good. Dick Brickner is also testing it in Tennessee.
It has shown to keep mite numbers low while it's on , then after honey pull and temps get low enough, use the formic.
Randy Oliver has a model on his site you can use. The one that Ian Stepper used on his video.
Yeah I watched that. Very interesting.
Loved the interview please keep them coming. One thing didn't hear about what personal protection equipment you should be wearing while applying...
Hi, Thomas. Thanks for the comment and pointing out that oversight.
One of the reasons that the founders of NOD Apiary Products developed the Mite Away Quick Strips and now Formic Pro was the need for a safer alternative than the liquid formic acid.
Both Mite Away Quick Strips and Formic Pro and very safe to use when following some simple safety procedures with proper PPE.
You do not want the strips to come into contact with skin, so long sleeves are recommended as well as using suitable formic acid resistant gloves (PVC, neoprene, or nitrile). I personally use the disposable nitrile gloves.
Unlike vaporizing with oxalic acid a respirator is not required.
When opening the sachet to remove the pads it is recommended to hold the sachet away from your face by extending your arms. It is also a good idea that if it is a windy day to open the sachet with the winding blowing the vapours away.
A complete over view of application instructions including PPE requirements can be found on our website
www.nodglobal.com
Great video Bruce! Tom is very educational! Always love learning one more tidbit of info!
Thanks man. Appreciate the support.
@@brucesbees You know it!
Bruce will two strips work on two deep box 10 frames each.
Yes. That was the configuration of this colony.
I'd like to hear from people that use it in the south that don't have a bias.
You will be hearing from me soon. I think. Have always been afraid to use it.
I’m in South Carolina. Used it according to directions. In 48 hours. I had about 40000 dead bees.
Great video, one question, I’ve heard with single brood box you shouldn’t treat without adding at least a medium box, can you confirm or can I treat with a single 10 frame deep? Thanks Bruce!
Maybe Tom will be able to check in and respond. My understanding is that you just treat on top of the frames.
Or between boxes in double deeps.
Hi Todd, thanks for the comment and they question.
I run single 10 frame boxes all year. I also almost always treat with 2 strips.
In my area when running single brood boxes it is part of my management to super very early in the spring.
So even when i do my spring treatment of Formic Pro I always have at least one or two medium supers on.
When I treat mid summer I usually have a honey super or two on as well.
The only time I put two strips on a single brood box is when going through a growth period, I did not have any supers so I treated a few singles without a super, but I don't recommend doing this. I really think the super helps by giving the bees room to expand the cluster and to move away from from the vapours which makes the treatment a bit less stressful on the colony.
Hey this is great clarification Tom. Thanks.
That is what I do.
Great info guys! Thanks!
Thanks Bruce for sharing this. Great interview. Cheers from NYC.
Thanks for watching!
Can FP be used with a better bee robber screen installed? Would it give adequate ventilation?
I would say no. Want to keep the entrance all the way open for ventilation purposes.
Great video with awesome information!
Thanks my friend!
Great interview Bruce with Tom. It was very informative.
Thank you for watching. It was a good day. I learned a lot.
They still offer Mite Away Quick Strips,, that is what i have used. I wish he would have spoke about the differences between them .
You know we discussed it a bit earlier in the day. Certainly would have been a good idea to ask him for the video. Maybe he will see this question and respond.
MAQS uses a gel like base that the formic acid is applied to and off gasses a little faster than the formic pro hence the shorter treatment time. Formic pro uses a saw dust/wood chip base and has a slightly longer release time and so the treatment is a few days longer than the MAQS. Both use formic acid, both are temp dependent, both are biodegradable, the only difference is treatment time.
Hi Srae, thanks for the comment.
The reason that NOD Apiary Products developed Formic Pro was to address two of the challenges we had with the Mite Away Quick Strips.
1- Mite Away Quick Strips had a 12 month shelf life. This was a big challenge for our resellers as well as some of our large commercial users.
2- Mite Away Quick Strips also had to be stored below 77F (25C) away from direct sunlight.
This could be a real challenge for resellers and commercial users who do not have climate controlled storage facilities. This is especially a problem for beekeepers in the south who may be storing strips in hot barns, metal sheds, or even leaving product in vehicles for extended periods of time.
If Mite Away Quick Strips was stored properly and used within the 12 month expiry period it was and still is an excellent product. I used Mite Away Quick Strips for several years before Formic Pro was developed.
So to answer these two challenges NOD developed Formic Pro.
By adding some organic binders to the Mite Away Quick Strips formulation. NOD developed a product that now has a 24 month shelf life and is not affected by storage temperature. Formic Pro just needs to be stored out of direct sunlight in a dry location.
For these two reasons I believe Formic Pro is ideally suited for beekeepers in the southern states.
Again you can find more info on our website. www.nodglobal.com
Formic pro killed every bee in my hive about 40000. Used as directed. 70 degrees day. Would never use that again. Might as well pour gasoline on beehive
Hmm. I have heard of some negative experiences but never hear of all the bees in a hive dying before. Hate to hear it.
Thanks. Is this really Bruce from Bruce bees or a spokesperson? I watch all his videos
This is Bruce from brucesbees. I aam not a spokesperson for the product. Tom is. I have never used it. But I am open minded and willing to listen to various sides of the story. And I believe the best way to learn about something is to go straight to the source. I had many questions. Tom answered them. Didn’t sugar coat anything. I don’t recommend anyone use it or not use it. Each person should weigh the pros and cons and do what is best for them. I am still nervous about this product. I am probably going to try it. To me it is simply another tool in the toolbox. If you watched the video you would see that is the direction we went with the interview. Honestly I don’t care if people use it or not. I am not sure why your bees died and I hate to hear it. But I have had many comments in this thread of people who have had positive results. I hope you can figure out a solution that works better for you. This having been said I really appreciate you watching my channel. I do at times share what I am using and if I like a product I will provide a link or may even recommend it. I feel like folks watch the channel to see what I am doing and maybe get some ideas. But I never expect anyone to think they have to do one thing or another. As Mike Barry says my channel is mostly about “how I do” and not “how to.” I am simply a beekeeper sharing my story. Just out here doing my best to keep the bugs in a box alive and healthy. Just like everyone else. I still have a long way to go.
Do we need to be concerned about any relative humidity levels.
The product label doesn’t say anything about using in certain humidity levels. I’ve never heard of or have had any issues in high or low humidity levels. I use it in the humid early spring and warm dry late summer in my location.
Good to know. Tom didn’t mention anything about it. Didn’t even think to ask
Before I do a spray application at the garden center I always check what the temperature is going to be and the RH.
Just killed 30% of my queens and took a bite out of the honey revenue. 10-24c solid time windows. Won't be using that again.
Sorry to hear that. I did not have those issues. But have not used it much.
@@brucesbees Ian steppler is currently 5 days behind me on treatment. You can tell he's pretty hesitant on the stuff now..
Yep everybody has to figure out their own deal. I know a lot of people have used it with success. But I have also heard some folks that had issues. I always recommend folks talk to Tom and see if he can help figure out what is going on. Interestingly it sounds like in Ian’s case some breeds of queens have had no issues with it and others struggle. When I did this interview I was just trying to get some questions answered. It’s up to each person to figure out what they want to do with it.
@@brucesbees I somewhat wonder if there's a relationship between queens raised from keepers that use formic and have accidentally made queens that are formic tolerate. Seems Ian never used it and his raised queens got kicked hard, which is the same experience I had with my limited treatment queens. I know randy oliver uses formic now and seemed his queens weren't affected much in Ians experiment. Could be Toms bees have been bred to be tolerate as well. It's hard to have a conclusion on the matter, seems some keepers stick with it and find a method that works (could simply be they bred resistance while developing a method) or keepers like myself they get burnt hard and can't risk using it again.
@stuffnsuch631 makes sense but I am really not sure. My preferred treatments are Apivar and OAV. But not opposed to using the Formic Pro again if I need to try a different approach. Hopefully as genetics evolve bees will become more naturally resistant to all the problems. It is good to see so many people attacking the problem from so many different angles.
Is there a way to use this with a layens hive?
I have not heard a response to that but imagine it would be ok as long as hive strength is sufficient and there is plenty of ventilation. But I am not very familiar with Layens hives
@@brucesbees thank you!
I use wintergreen oils and jojoba oil and no mites
Great Stuff.
Hey Richard have you used this product before?
@@brucesbees Not yet. I have read up on formic acid from the information provided by the Honey Bee Health Coalition and listened to Tom talk about it at a few shows. I would like to give it a try.
The window will close pretty quickly here but I think I will try it out on my pollination bees when they return. Should be a good time to give it a try. Much later than that and it may get too hot.
It is known to be good pracrice to rotate chemical treatments as to avoid creating a treatment resistant organism. You mention treating with formic twice per year, and jumping to conclusions as i imagine the testing process doesnt want other variables while determining the efficacy or your product.
Is there a chance your practices of developing new treatments is in fact also breeding resistant mites?
Not sure if Tom will see this but I don’t think he is at all opposed to people use of all the tools in the toolbox. I think it is definitely wise to rotate as you suggest. Thanks for checking in.
@@brucesbees i wasn't really asking that.
Is the current practice flawed?
I think that yes the bees can build up a resistance to some of the treatments and have in the past. Not sure if they can actually build up a resistance to Formic Acid. Are you asking if it is flawed to treat period due to the ability of mites to become resistant? I know there are people working how to eliminate mites most effectively and there are others working on breeding mite resistant bees. I think that two tiered approach is the best way to move forward. Not sure if this answers your question? What are your thoughts of the best way to move forward?
But the direct answer to your question is…probably. But the only way to overcome something is to attack it and adjust as needed to get better. I am curious as to what your opinion is on the matter and what might be a better approach in your opinion.
@@brucesbees I'm afraid I can't suggest a better approach while also satisfying the scientists and developers needs in regards to an untainted trial.
🙄
I have used Formic Pro for the last two years. Will again use it in the next couple of months. Keeps my mite counts down or at zero. SML BEEs / SWVA
Good to know. I probably just need to go ahead and order some. Still makes me a little nervous. But I feel way better about to now than I did in the past.