honestly suigets is the realest dude, I really like his self awareness. It appears that good sense of humor gets passied within the hozuki clan considering suigetsu and second mizukage.
It's amazing to me that Tobirama is expected to understand the Uchiha's side, and ironically enough he actually does, but nobody wants to accept him. He was not a bad hokage, nor a bad person. Every side was taken into account except his own because he appears to be racist against the Uchiha and so immediately fuck his opinion, which in itself is the most genuine form of discrimination. A complete hostility against anything coming out of a person because of one misunderstood opinion of theirs, that in this case was literally just a fact shown to be completely true by Madara, Sasuke and Obito
Funny how ppl throw sh*t at Tobirama because of how He HaTeD tHe UcHiHa but forget that Hashirama himself said that he’d kill anyone who threatens the village even if it’s a friend or family, and also Itachi saying he was tired and overwhelmed about how arrogant, selfish and power-seekers the Uchiha were
Karin: "Lord Orochimaru, can you believe what Sasuke did to me? He had the gull to stab me!" Orochimaru: "Me too dear, quite the coincidence." I love this new Orochimaru :D
I didn't got it first time that I watched, but when Hashirama says that he'll not forgive anyone who threatens the village that's exactly what lived Itachi for
And for Tobirama, he was born, grew and died during war time so it's kinda harsh to say that he is racist, only Hashirama and Naruto could still be good people in this conditions. For his time as the Hokage I think that even before he was the Hokage he already had some asignments in the village, so even if he was Hokage for the shortest time he was making decisions for more time than that
No matter what happens I will protect our… no my village. I still believe that protecting the village is the best way to protect people, shinobi, and children…! Anyone who tries to harm it, whether they are my friends, siblings or my own children… I won't forgive them. I still love that quote from the first
Tobirama is cautious of a clan that he fought against for years that destroyed his family that almost destroyed the village he and his brother worked hard to build and are literally predisposed to emotional outbursts and God like power and yet still gave them ample opportunity to do good for and contribute to the village. Sorry he's proven he is not to be racist and is bar none the best hokage in terms of policy and one of the best kage in the series.
That being said, I think his main concern was the fact that the Uchiha can lose themselves every time they lose the people they love, which he said he witnessed quite a few times, so not mainly because he was at war with them
Of course leaf shinobi know who he is, while shinobi from the other villages dont. There are some people who knew beforehand tobis idendity. One of them is Itachi, the others are Kabuto and Orochimaru likely when he revived and stole kabutos knowledge
@@RikudoSennin47 True. Maybe even some outside the village heard about his "name" because of the storys about the heros of Hanabi bridge. And about Konoha, there are way more shinobis that knew him if he was a classmate of Kakashi and Guy.
I absolutely love the fact that you get to see the moment Hashirama changed, the moment he took the big wrong step, and you really can't blame him at all even as Madara calls him out on it. You see it in his face that he finally decides he has to kill Madara, that's he's willing to kill even his own child for the village which was built specifically to protect that theoretical child. It's honestly really sad to see him corrupt his dream while "having" to kill his best friend, even if it's the only realistic option he had.
its not corrupt when its madara's fault anyways. Madara is just a loser, he couldnt even accept a democratic choise lol. I dont blame the other clans voting for hashirama instead of madara or the uchia considering the base of the uchia power is on hatred/losing love and their reputation on killing each other sometimes for power... when tobirama gave them the responsibility for the police force they could have used it for the better as well. There are plenty of uchiah that could have been hokague, and all of them put the village over the clan, because after all the clan is part of the village, like all the other clans. Even kagami if he volunteared to be a decoy (when iruzen was named the 3rd) i see no reason for the 2nd to not name him hokague because he probably would. (iruzen was sarutobi, not even senju). The same with shisui or itachi but once again loser madara already planted the seeds on obito and the 9 tails invasion only made sht far worse.
@@Andrew-px9fj Hashirama's dream was a place where no child would die because of Shinobi conflicts. There mere fact that he says he "would not forgive" i.e. kill anyone, even his own child, if they threatened the village is what corrupts the dream. Madara creates the situation, but Hashirama changes his own mindset from building a place to protect every child regardless to willing to kill Madara, even his own child to protect an idea(which that exact act is contrary to). He changed and that's not Madara's fault.
Like fr bro, he is probably the most misunderstood character in the show, everything he did can be justified besides pushing the uchihas to the outskirts of the village and again that was mostly danzo’s doing after the nine tails attack
true, not only that but the main reason all that happened was because of how volatile madara and the history on the uchia clan of murdering close comrades for power... im not surprised tobirama wanted to be cautious... specially since when hashirama dies then there is possibly no one who can fight someone that can become as strong as madara. And later we even now that there is more laying arround manipulating....
@@kadeemmarajeen1879 he never pushed the uchiha to one side of the village that was danzo doing he was the one who soil the seeds by establishing the leaf police within the uchiha clan
@@kadeemmarajeen1879 no orochimaru only said he started by establishing the police force within the uchiha clan danzo was the one who pushed them to the outskirt of the village after the nine tails attack and had the black ops spying on them
Madara saying that Hashirama’s priorities are backwards was partially true. They both set out to protect their brothers and created a village for that purpose. Hashirama eventually came to the conclusion that he would even kill his own child if it was to protect the village from destruction. It’s the opposite of what he and Madara originally wanted. Madara always put his family first, whereas Hashirama was willing to sacrifice those he loved to save even more lives. (Tobirama took that a step further) I think they are both understandable and if the village leaders had found the middle ground, maybe they could have avoided things like the Uchiha massacre eventually happening.
Yes absolutely. That’s why Hashirama even concedes that Madara may have been right from the start. The village created to stop children from killing each other turned into a child murdering his own family for the sake of the village.
well i wouldn't exactly call the 8 inner gates true power as its only temporary. especially the 8th gate as you sacrifice your life for only like 2 minutes of battle
@@kadeemmarajeen1879 yes i know im not denying that. What im saying is that its not something he can use all the time continuously hence im saying its not true power. He has to give up his life to use the 8th gate and he cant even use it for long and dude was out of commission after fighting kisame. but dude is strong no doubt, im not trying to take that away from him. Now if it were reworded where someone would say guy's peak power is near the top of the shinobi world i would agree with that
I love the metaphor of madara getting stabbed in the back. He doesn’t let anyone get behind him. And the people he does let behind him stab him in the back. Also this is an issue for a leader- what madara desires is to be the ruler of the world and you can’t be a leader without walking in front of everyone. Also itachi was only 14 when he slaughtered his clan. 21 at his death. He was a kid which adds to the tragedy
I don't think it's fair to write off the Tobirama character as simply a racist. That's way too low-resolution an analysis. It's like when Lindsay was experiencing Pain's character, dialogue and plan for the first time, got emotional and wrote him off as an idiot who was purely immoral. As I recall, she was criticized relatively widely for not considering the complexities of the circumstance and the character. He does a good job of revealing interesting information and explaining his point of view in this episode, but I think Carson was busy dismissing him as a racist, which is ironic. He didn't hate the Uchiha, he was wary of their unpredictable, emotionally unstable tendencies. He was a pragmatist, he thought things through rationally. He probably didn't believe they'd serve the interests of the village well in senior government positions given their more tribal nature, but I don't think the police positions were offered to them as a snub. I actually believe he intended for them to serve honorably and with purpose, use their superior strength and skills to ensure domestic peace, be seen as upstanding members of the community so they would remain satisfied and once they'd proven themselves responsible and trustworthy--I don't think he'd object to future generations of Uchiha serving directly in government, even as Hokage. Also, an added benefit of working in the police force is most of your clan is away from the battlefield and away from the risk of dying in conflict. Also, fewer deaths and tragedies mean less Uchiha awaken the Mangekyo and go blind and crazy. Actually, given how much he seems to understand about the nature of their people, their biology and the expression of their duality, I wouldn't be surprised if he knows the clan better than most know themselves. He's really interested in them and studied them well. He's even allowed the possibility he could work with them in earnest as comrades if they shared his ideals on protecting and fortifying the cornerstone of the village. I also don't believe he's saying any of this right now to Sasuke to cover his ass. Tobirama ain't no bitch, he speaks his mind and says what he wants to who he wants the way he wants. He's more about getting results and following through on duty than about appearances. I take him at his word over how he felt about what he did over the mask-wearing Obito who was telling his story about Tobirama in order to invoke Sasuke's ire. It was a bad idea to make ONLY one clan responsible for policing because of how the psychology and distrust develops between an authoritative force and the populace they oversee, but that was discovered only through hindsight. Like he said, Tobirama had to implement a lot of policy and structure that was probably at the time very new and experimental to make the village function properly. Even though some things he put in place didn't work out, given how well it runs now I can assume he did a pretty good job for the most part. It's fair to say, he might've been better served to be a little more trusting and that he made mistakes that he shouldn't have, but definitely deserves more comprehensive analysis and room for discussion than just, "he a racist". I actually think he's one of the more well-rounded Hokage we've had and I've not heard a bad word about him from the people who actually live in the village. Things were tense with the Uchiha, but that was exacerbated by Madara and Obito, not Tobirama.
I think you are overrating him a little bit. Yeah it’s true that reducing him to a mere racist is a little simplistic, but that doesn’t dismiss the fact that he is was very prejudiced against the uchiha. At first, Hashirama wanted to give Madara the tittle of hokage because Hashirama wanted to give something to protect to Madara for he had no siblings alive, but Tobirama frustrated that plan based on the prejudice that Madara could not be trusted (and I say prejudice because at the time he didn’t have a real reason to distrust Madara as he was willing to cooperate with them even when all his siblings died to the Senju). And I don’t think that he gave the uchiha the military police just because they were more suited for the task and wanted them to be good, he right away admitted that he gave them that task in order to deal with a new Madara as fast as possible so even when he allegedly wanted the uchiha to serve the leaf, he was also distrustful of them. And even if his policies stop the rise of a new madara those polices also created unnecessary unrest among the uchiha and a say unnecessary because the uchiha were willing to cooperate and maintain the village, they even turned their backs on Madara when he proposed to leave the leaf (and yet tobirama was distrustful of them for no reason even when they showed that they wanted peace by turning their backs on Madara's plans) those polices led ironically to the rise of madara followers in further generations and made the uchiha coup d’état inevitable in the future. Tobirama also failed to keep the peace that his brother strived so hard for (let’s not forget that the first ninja war began in his era) since Hashirama never wanted to be at war with the other nations and a proof of that is that he captured all the tailbeasts and gave them away to the other nations to demonstrate that he intended to maintain peace with them. This doesn’t make him a bad character, in fact he’s a really good one. It is these flaws that make him more interesting rather than the stereotypical ruler of the past who did everything right and got nothing wrong. But yeah, I still agree with you that dismissing him as a mere racist is stupid.
Saying the tobirama frustrated the plan for madara to become hokage is simply incorrect because that wasn’t in his control, all he did was stated the facts the hashirama should and would become hokage not only because he was the sole source of creating the village but also because the people wanted it, u really can’t blame tobirama for that. Secondly, your belief that him giving the uchiha the power of being the police force was only to deal with the next madara isn’t exactly a bad thing considering that madara had just attempted to destroy the entire village. As the hokage that would actually be a great decision. And lastly blaming tobirama for the first great ninja war is a stretch because it started while hashirama was hokage and because it takes more than one side to start a world war, even if it started while tobirama was hokage, the war was inevitable considering that the creation of villages would also create new problems that they would have to deal with eventually. I think everything tobirama did was justifiable besides him starting the process of pushing the uchiha to the outskirts out the village( he started it but it was mainly danzo that forced them to the edge of the village). And we can use his relationship with kagami uchiha as proof that he didn’t hate uchihas, it was just him being cautious of them to keep his promise to hashirama of protecting the village
@@brandonchavez6409 The structural grammar of your sentences is a bit hard to read, but I'm going to try to address your points in sequence. 1. I understand what Hashirama was trying to do by making Madara Hokage and giving him new purpose in protecting the village as he would a "family". Ironically, it's not that different from Tobirama tasking the Uchiha with the protection and promotion of the general welfare of the village. The problem was Madara couldn't bring himself to extend his love or trust to the villagers and see them as his family. Blaming Tobirama for that is near-sighted. Madara was shaken because he couldn't believe in himself after failing to protect his brother and comrades. It's understandable that Madara bares hatred and distrust of Tobirama, since he was the once who killed Izuna, but Tobirama also had comrades that were killed by Madara. They were life-long enemies made fresh allies. They are on equal footing at this point. Tobirama didn't object to Madara submitting his candidacy and "trying" to become Hokage, but made a lot of salient points for why you can't just arbitrarily select him as the leader without consent from the people or the Land of Fire. Hashirama tried to do that, and that's not right. Tobirama believed his brother would make a better leader because everyone loves and respects him, even the Uchiha. He was the driving force behind the alliance. He worked the hardest to make it happen. Almost killed himself at Madara's request to finalize it. Madara would've been a bad choice given his state of mind at the time. Because of his ego, and he didn't think he'd become leader and do things his way, he abandoned the village and came back to destroy it. 2. He did believe the Uchiha were suited to the task of being the police, he says this verbatim. I think you're confused. He doesn't say, "I gave them the task of policing so that any new Madara would be dealt with". He says, "I gave them posts they were very qualified for AND (separate issue) if another Madara emerged I thought he could just be dealt with right away". How are those two issues connected? 3. As far as all of Tobirama's policies that created unnecessary unrest among the Uchiha, you'll have to name the specific policy and cite your source. We've already covered the policing thing extensively. As far as that didn't work out for the Uchiha, that's more a consequence of oversight than a result of Tobirama's prejudice. I don't think anybody could have predicted at the time that the policing would've gone the way that it did. Not the Uchiha, nor Tobirama. He wanted things to go smoothly in the village. He even says, "I thought I had guided and arranged things so that Uchiha's power could be used to serve the village", after learning what happened after the fact. A lot of information is scattered throughout guidebooks and 3rd party media sources, so I don't know how reliable it is in terms of cannon, but Kishimoto unfortunately leaves out a lot of finer specific details when it comes to the 1st and 2nd Hokage and the timelines of the wars in the manga and the anime. Again, I've already said and HE'S already said that what made Tobirama distrustful of the Uchiha was their tendency to revert to tribalism and their emotional instability combined with the sharingan. I agree you always have to be careful to judge people on the basis of the individual rather than on the group, but the Uchiha have been shown to be ticking time bombs. Plus, he has been shown to show grace to Uchiha who conquer their more base instincts. Also again, I think I can safely say that Madara and Obito who are both Uchiha I should point out, contributed far more to the circumstances that led to the coup d'etat and massacre through their actions than anything Tobirama did. 4. I don't know how the 1st Hokage died for sure. I've heard some sources say he died in the 1st Great Ninja War and others say he died from his cells dividing themselves to death. In case the war started when Tobirama was in power, I feel I should point some things out. We don't have the specifics for how it started, so for you to lay the war at Tobirama's feet is disingenuous. Also, when you and Lindsay talk about how great things were under the 1st Hokage, something you have to remember is that the 1st is THE STRONGEST NINJA IN THE WORLD. He's able to get and maintain what he wants because no one can fuck with him. If he wants peace, he'll have peace. He just chose to do it through a noble/peace negotiating way, but that wouldn't have been an option if people didn't respect his strength. He was also the only one who could tame the Tailed Beasts with wood style. The other Hokage don't have access to that kind of influence, unfortunately. So once he dies, yeah I can see everyone returning to war to try and fill the vacuum of power he left behind. We shall agree on the point that dismissing him as a racist is lame and stupid.
I really like Sasuke's arc here. Everything that leads him to help out in the war just feels so organic. Kishimoto took the time to give him his own story apart from Naruto's and it really fleshes him out.
I'm on the side of "Tobirama is racist". It is true that it was Hashi who begged and was willing to die for the chance that there would be peace between Senju and Uchiha, so of course, the villagers looked up to him more. So I can understand if Tobirama disapproved of Hashi one-sidedly appointing Madara as Hokage. Just because Hashi trusted Madara, Madara still doesn't have the trust of other clans and villagers. Even if Hashi managed to get his way to appoint Madara on his own, that does not mean anything if Madara was not acknowledged by the rest of the village. Itachi said "You do not become Hokage to be acknowledged. You become Hokage when everyone acknowledges you" Tobirama only had large distrust of Madara. Maybe he also felt negatively about the rest of Uchiha, but that's unfair. The Uchiha may have killed a lot of people Tobirama cared about, but the Senju did the same to the Uchiha. Even before the village was formed, there were Uchihas who defected to the Senju, willing to put aside their pain in order to stop the fighting. And even after Madara left the village, the rest of the Uchiha declined Madara's offer to leave the village. Meaning they were very willing to build this village that can have a future. But because Tobirama saw the power of Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, and feared it, he decided to color the entire Uchiha in his bias against Madara. We can argue that Tobirama didn't necessarily want the Uchiha to be disliked as a police force, or cut them off from political power, but he literally said he wanted to keep an eye on them in case another Madara appeared. It's all because his mindset is of "these people are PREDISPOSED to hatred". That's racism. It was only later in Hiruzen's era that the accumulative effects of Tobirama and Danzo's discrimination that the Uchiha was forced to go up against such discrimination.
I can't quite agree with the 2nd Hokage being racist. Keep in mind he lived through the war between clans and lost many members/family to the Uchiha. It has nothing to do with the race but those people that they fought with in the wars were still alive and there. Think of it like this. Lets say the Taliban was a clan. No country trusts the Taliban at all. Now while we have agreed to try to play nice with them for the sake of peace. No country trusts them fully and every leader around the world is extremely weary. Why? because it wasn't that long ago that we were at war with them. the memories of 9/11 are still fresh in a lot of our minds that were alive to experience it even though that was 19 years ago. It's a lot more complicated than just calling him a racist. That's just the easy way of thinking about it. Not the correct way. To add onto that from what a friend told me. It wasn't even the whole clan's decision. It was the decision of 1 person. Their leader Hashirama that they just followed. That would be like President Biden allowing the Taliban into the country with open arms without restrictions. No one would trust them. Does that make those people racists. No it doesn't because of the shit they have done to this world. (I know Taliban isn't a race but for this example with the Uchiha please just think of them as their own race) Also one more thing to add. You like myself don't like racists. Racists is a group of people we don't like because of the shit that they have done that we don't agree with. So if you think about it We are technically just Tobirama against the Uchiha (Racists in this example). So This whole Tobirama being racist isn't black and white. It's full of grey and I'd appreciate some thought into it before just calling someone a racist because others that haven't put thought into the full situation have named him as that.
21:21 No, he had to be Hokage for quite some time, he had many establishments in the village that needed much time to be established. Minato was the Hokage for the shortest amount of time, probably.
I don't think he is racist at all. If you really think about it, think of this. The fact of the matter is Tobirami was a child of war against the Uchiha Clan. Many friends/family members died by their hands and many of those that killed Senju members were still alive within this alliance. It's not like this was 100s of years ago where the generations had nothing to do with the war between them. At this time of the story with Naruto about 16 years old, the Hidden leaf is around 70-80 years old. The 3rd hokage was a young adult while the 2nd looked not much older than he does in the flashbacks. And at the time for Tobirama the war against the Uchiha that he fought all his life. That he trained all his life to do to protect his people, When his own brother was killed by Uchiha. This was just years ago to him. Barely any time passed. So if you really put thought into it that's like our current situation with the Taliban. While our countries are agreeing to play nice for the sake to prevent another war. No country trusts them and is watching them closely with weary eyes. Then Hashirama just invited them in on his orders not to attack Uchiha members that his clan just had to follow. That's exactly like Biden or who ever your country leader is just inviting the Taliban into your country with no restrictions. Would you fully trust the taliban? Considering the fact we have recently been at war with them and they have killed thousands including stuff like 9/11. Even though that was 19 years ago it's still fresh in a lot of people's minds that were alive to experience that. I'm pretty sure deep down 99% of people wouldn't trust the Taliban. So why they feel the need to label someone who is reacting just like they would a racist is beyond me, I hate the fact that people have just labelled him as a racist. Because that's the easy thing to do because they don't want to put real thought into his whole situation.
Suigetsu never was holding his own against 8 tails. What i remember was Bee playing with him, Sasuke and Yugo while not really using full power. Hashirama is above or at leas at the same lvl as 9 tails who is above 8 tails, so ofcourse Suigetsu gets a little frightened. Especially when helping them has nothing to do with his own interests. I mean he doesn't need Sasuke like Yugo or isnt in love with him like Karin 😂
The 3rd hokage is by far the worst hokage. He got an entire clan killed. He let naruto have a shitty childhood. Allowed orochimaru to get away and let him go. And the worst thing he did was empowering danzo. And to all those people saying danzo did a lot of the bad things that happened under the 3rd hokage, the 3rd hokage empowered him. Danzo caused kabuto and nagato to go bad, which was under the 3rd hokage. Danzo tried to assassinate the 3rd multiple times, but the 3rd still didn't do anything. Literally every other hokage was better.
Agreed... thinking about the timeline of Hokage too much just screws with things.. every way i've tried to figure it I end up with the 1st still being alive when the 3rd is chosen, and Hiruzen dying at around 65yrs old, would mean the Village is still less than or just a little over 100 years old before shippuden.. And then in barely 20 years they leap to not only having electric trains and televison, but also full colour video games.. The timeline is very messy.
I will say you're probably the most understanding of Hiruzen's inaction, at least you're not one of the people that really hates him as a character for it... I think
tbh I'm not sure about how he was in his first term, but I don't really blame Hiruzen for the quality of his second term. He probably retired in the first place since he realized he was no longer a great fit for the role, for reasons other than his age.
Fun fact(no spoilers past like next ep I think): Minato didnt teleport to the battlefield cuz he didn't have seals there so that have to have been just his body flicker. That's how fast he was
I mean tobirama is pragmatic hes nowhere near as biased against the uchiha as danzo,he freely admits hes worked fine with plenty of uchiha who could put the village first and he certainly isn't a racist,the uchiha aren't a race and were equals and opposite players in deadly conflicts with tobiramas clans so any prejudice he feels isn't unfounded or illogically blind. Looking at him through a lense of him being a racist simply isn't correct
Pretty certain that Minato wins the title for the least amount of time. Kakashi was 13 at Kanabi bridge, and 14 when Naruto was born (thus when Tobito killed Minato).
God damn. Tobirama is by far the most misunderstood character in the entire show. People like you just can't see reason. No offense, you guys have great reactions, but fucking hell.
After this episode I respected both sasuke and orochimaru's a bit more because they sure have balls, although they seemed not very inteligent... Imagine the guts on orochimaru to even propose sasuke if he was going to destroy the village when the god Hashirama Senju cant even be controlled by him.... Hashirama would destroy all of them if sasuke made the wrong decision lmao.
Suigetsu is literally at rock bottom in terms of strength when compared to the rest of the major players in the war. The eight tails fight is not proper compression as bee wasn't taking the fight seriously and half time it was Sasuke doing the most damage. If bee was fight Suigetsu one on one then his done for. No disrespect to him still a good character.
The only thing Sarutobi could of changed is the Uchihas dying and that has nothing to do with the current war. Madara already had all of that planned and it wouldnt of made a difference
If I could live in Naruto, I would never choose to live in the Leaf Village. After everything that happened there, I'd rather live in the Hidden Mist Village.
@@a.mseymour180 "if it wasnt", but it is tho... and he unserstood the problems on it, and was cautious for the overall village (including the uchiha). Choosing the hokague was literally democratically between clans (including the uchiha) and its also true that hashirama was the begger driving force to create the village... Further more, giving them the leafe force, can infact be a burden of make them object of repudiation, but it could also be a blessing if they bet on it as so, they could haveimproved their ways, use the dark past of their clans history to try and paint a better path to the future by leading the police force towards being respected and the pride of the clan. Furthermore i dont agree it would displace them that much from the governance of teh village... kagami had theoretically the same chance as did dazo or hiruzen, of becoming hokague.. considering all of them trully understood the will of fire and were capable. But the worst in my opinion, was how much madara doomed the uchiha.. and their "fated history".. but yea, i wouldnt consider tobirama a racist like the ones we see in our real world, but a sometime overly cautious.
@@muchoyurdem5260 ofc he didnt, nither did madara like tobirama sice he killed his younger brother... also after give that garbage ultimatum to hashirama to test his guts when he literally knew him from childhood... and the proof is how easely manipulated he was...
@@Andrew-px9fj Maybe i worded it wrong. Both didnt like each other but it was not mainly because Tobirama killed Izuna, because back then Madara cared for his whole clan, which was all the Uchihas and not only his brother. Remember Hashirama also killed many Uchihas, but Madara still got along with Hashirama. It's more like Tobirama didn't trust Madara, was suspicious of him and didnt want him to have a leader position while Madara and Hashirama were the one who established the village. There is a difference in not liking someone and being against someone. And Tobirama wasn't only against Madara he was against the Uchihas having any leader role. Madara just didn't like Tobirama nothing more
It's hard to say who is bad and who is good. Technically both sides are their own good and both sides are each other's bad. But it goes without saying that Tobirama went of his way to try to understand the Uchiha. He was one of the few that knew that the Uchiha are very emotional and have a strong sense of love to them. But he also knew that they potentially were extremely dangerous and considering that they were recently at war with each other. That they had to stop fighting and try to get along on 1 mans word (Hashirama's) when these are the same people that killed many of his friends / family including his own brother. I'd be weary also and very cautious as I'm sure many here would be also. Shit I may get along with my uncle just fine after finally making up with him which took years to do. but I'm extremely cautious with him because he has stolen and fucked over my father many times in the past. I certainly don't trust him enough to lend him money anymore. The same applies to Tobirama with the Uchiha. He doesn't trust them because the those are the exact same people he has been fighting with all his life.
@@aisukage1990 But that's not how a truce works. If you being wary of someone you made a truce, putting tabs at them, watching over them and not trusting them, you literally breaking the truce you promised, and you even make the other clan scared that you aren't really in peace with them. You know what we call people that are watching over another clan of any suspicious actions? It's called a spy. And spying on someone and being suspicious you made a truce isn't actually making peace. Nomatter who is good or bad they both did evil deeds but Madara wasn't the one that started a war it was Tobirama. Even if Madara would have stayed in the village, it would still be the same outcome sooner or later, because there is one thing that would never change, and that is that Tobirama was suspicious about the Uchihas. Not only about Madara.
Am I the only one confused why they were just laughing when Hashirama said he killed his friend? Like it wasn't funny or anything so I sont really get it.
Why are you confused? They laugh because "Hashirama killed Madara" as he stated, didnt happen. Its not funny because its a joke, its funny cuz of the irony. (Its even more irony that Madara lived off his cells, though thats not the reason for their response). Thats all it is.
Madara was right, he saw the dark future of the village, Hashirama want to make that everyone would be equal to the leaf village and give the other great nations some tail-beast to them, but it incurs military build-up of conflict and war, Tobirama is the worst to me because he made the Uchiha that they can't be trusted and a government that was so corrupted and created the reanimations Jutsu, Hiruzen was so naive that he stop or kill Orochimaru so he let him go and Orochimaru has done so many horrible things, so because of Hiruzen Naivete has brut problems, and lastly Minato he was kind and gentle but it made him that he slowly dropping his guard down and starting to believe in Jiraiya's words of "The Child of Prophecy", you see prophecy are foolish to believe and dangers as well. It's just like what Madara said in "episode 364" when told Obito about the reality, for what choices the privies Hokage did it never ends well, only bad things.
honestly suigets is the realest dude, I really like his self awareness. It appears that good sense of humor gets passied within the hozuki clan considering suigetsu and second mizukage.
He be like a viewer that got into the show and wants tp tag along 😂
I like how at hashirama is having so much fun when there is literally a world war going around.
You'll understand when you see Madara excitment next episodr 😉
@@xhulio4124 the fact that madara sense his chakra from far away was epic
@@oshanegreen1954 the only chakra that made him excited ...the beast comes later
It's amazing to me that Tobirama is expected to understand the Uchiha's side, and ironically enough he actually does, but nobody wants to accept him. He was not a bad hokage, nor a bad person. Every side was taken into account except his own because he appears to be racist against the Uchiha and so immediately fuck his opinion, which in itself is the most genuine form of discrimination. A complete hostility against anything coming out of a person because of one misunderstood opinion of theirs, that in this case was literally just a fact shown to be completely true by Madara, Sasuke and Obito
Funny how ppl throw sh*t at Tobirama because of how He HaTeD tHe UcHiHa but forget that Hashirama himself said that he’d kill anyone who threatens the village even if it’s a friend or family, and also Itachi saying he was tired and overwhelmed about how arrogant, selfish and power-seekers the Uchiha were
Karin: "Lord Orochimaru, can you believe what Sasuke did to me? He had the gull to stab me!"
Orochimaru: "Me too dear, quite the coincidence."
I love this new Orochimaru :D
he is sarcastic after all
@@kshitizsrivastava9429 No.
14:44 lmao at Carson when Lindsays talking about how Sasuke has grown
I didn't got it first time that I watched, but when Hashirama says that he'll not forgive anyone who threatens the village that's exactly what lived Itachi for
And for Tobirama, he was born, grew and died during war time so it's kinda harsh to say that he is racist, only Hashirama and Naruto could still be good people in this conditions. For his time as the Hokage I think that even before he was the Hokage he already had some asignments in the village, so even if he was Hokage for the shortest time he was making decisions for more time than that
Tobirama supremacy😎😎
Tobirama is pretty accurate in most things he says and does.
@@MrSupertallblackman Seriously. Everyone complaining and insulting him can't see that.
It kinda makes sense that Hashirama wouldn’t be phased by a war. Him and Madara constantly fought in open conflicts just to go get groceries. 😂
Basically anyone Sasuke stabs falls in love with him, a strong Jutsu indeed.
He got it from kakashi
@@uchihazoro256 I can’t believe you’ve done this😂
@@uchihazoro256 kakashi's jutsu was better. He stabed her, after she fell in love.
The red eyed uchias is a clan full of love
That's my Ninja way
I really find Minato standing there with the other 3 so funny, like my man is just there listening to all of this completely unrelated
lmao, he had no idea 😭😭
@@inumakigod6170 "damn that's crazy, so uhh... Why am I here again?"
😁
@@SomeDudeOG "Damn it :-(
I want to see my son."
My man just want to meet his son lol
No matter what happens I will protect our… no my village. I still believe that protecting the village is the best way to protect people, shinobi, and children…! Anyone who tries to harm it, whether they are my friends, siblings or my own children… I won't forgive them.
I still love that quote from the first
Lindsey : Madara is going to freak out
Madara : i've been waiting Hashirama .
Tobirama is cautious of a clan that he fought against for years that destroyed his family that almost destroyed the village he and his brother worked hard to build and are literally predisposed to emotional outbursts and God like power and yet still gave them ample opportunity to do good for and contribute to the village. Sorry he's proven he is not to be racist and is bar none the best hokage in terms of policy and one of the best kage in the series.
Agreed
Agreed X2
+
That being said, I think his main concern was the fact that the Uchiha can lose themselves every time they lose the people they love, which he said he witnessed quite a few times, so not mainly because he was at war with them
I… don’t think anyone knows who Tobi even was, right? So I think that would explain why the ninja didn’t recognize him?
Of course leaf shinobi know who he is, while shinobi from the other villages dont.
There are some people who knew beforehand tobis idendity. One of them is Itachi, the others are Kabuto and Orochimaru likely when he revived and stole kabutos knowledge
@@RikudoSennin47 True. Maybe even some outside the village heard about his "name" because of the storys about the heros of Hanabi bridge. And about Konoha, there are way more shinobis that knew him if he was a classmate of Kakashi and Guy.
I’m waiting for the part when Madara realizes Hashirama is alive 😂
That was episode 366.
Ngl, Lindsay having her hair like that reminded me so much of Videl (DBZ).. she'd be a good cosplayer for that
Damn, SO TRUE, I was freaking out trying to remember who she looked like
I absolutely love the fact that you get to see the moment Hashirama changed, the moment he took the big wrong step, and you really can't blame him at all even as Madara calls him out on it. You see it in his face that he finally decides he has to kill Madara, that's he's willing to kill even his own child for the village which was built specifically to protect that theoretical child. It's honestly really sad to see him corrupt his dream while "having" to kill his best friend, even if it's the only realistic option he had.
its not corrupt when its madara's fault anyways. Madara is just a loser, he couldnt even accept a democratic choise lol. I dont blame the other clans voting for hashirama instead of madara or the uchia considering the base of the uchia power is on hatred/losing love and their reputation on killing each other sometimes for power... when tobirama gave them the responsibility for the police force they could have used it for the better as well. There are plenty of uchiah that could have been hokague, and all of them put the village over the clan, because after all the clan is part of the village, like all the other clans. Even kagami if he volunteared to be a decoy (when iruzen was named the 3rd) i see no reason for the 2nd to not name him hokague because he probably would. (iruzen was sarutobi, not even senju). The same with shisui or itachi but once again loser madara already planted the seeds on obito and the 9 tails invasion only made sht far worse.
@@Andrew-px9fj Hashirama's dream was a place where no child would die because of Shinobi conflicts. There mere fact that he says he "would not forgive" i.e. kill anyone, even his own child, if they threatened the village is what corrupts the dream. Madara creates the situation, but Hashirama changes his own mindset from building a place to protect every child regardless to willing to kill Madara, even his own child to protect an idea(which that exact act is contrary to). He changed and that's not Madara's fault.
That's really nice insight
Tobirama is not a rasist tho, if I had to choose between the village and dudes whom hatred is stronger then basic logic, I will go for the village.
Like fr bro, he is probably the most misunderstood character in the show, everything he did can be justified besides pushing the uchihas to the outskirts of the village and again that was mostly danzo’s doing after the nine tails attack
true, not only that but the main reason all that happened was because of how volatile madara and the history on the uchia clan of murdering close comrades for power... im not surprised tobirama wanted to be cautious... specially since when hashirama dies then there is possibly no one who can fight someone that can become as strong as madara. And later we even now that there is more laying arround manipulating....
@@kadeemmarajeen1879 he never pushed the uchiha to one side of the village that was danzo doing he was the one who soil the seeds by establishing the leaf police within the uchiha clan
@@roxasbaker according to orochimaru he did
@@kadeemmarajeen1879 no orochimaru only said he started by establishing the police force within the uchiha clan danzo was the one who pushed them to the outskirt of the village after the nine tails attack and had the black ops spying on them
Madara saying that Hashirama’s priorities are backwards was partially true. They both set out to protect their brothers and created a village for that purpose. Hashirama eventually came to the conclusion that he would even kill his own child if it was to protect the village from destruction. It’s the opposite of what he and Madara originally wanted. Madara always put his family first, whereas Hashirama was willing to sacrifice those he loved to save even more lives. (Tobirama took that a step further) I think they are both understandable and if the village leaders had found the middle ground, maybe they could have avoided things like the Uchiha massacre eventually happening.
Yes absolutely. That’s why Hashirama even concedes that Madara may have been right from the start. The village created to stop children from killing each other turned into a child murdering his own family for the sake of the village.
When she ranked Gai just above average shinobi, I was just thinking girl you couldn't be more wrong then that, just wait few more episodes 😂😂
😂even without knowing what's to come he should be more than above average
@@muchoyurdem5260 fax bro he one shotted kisame without using full power
well i wouldn't exactly call the 8 inner gates true power as its only temporary. especially the 8th gate as you sacrifice your life for only like 2 minutes of battle
@@mastixencounter his 7th gate alone puts him on par with high ranking akatsuki members, that’s wayyyyy above Jonin level
@@kadeemmarajeen1879 yes i know im not denying that. What im saying is that its not something he can use all the time continuously hence im saying its not true power. He has to give up his life to use the 8th gate and he cant even use it for long and dude was out of commission after fighting kisame. but dude is strong no doubt, im not trying to take that away from him. Now if it were reworded where someone would say guy's peak power is near the top of the shinobi world i would agree with that
First of tobirama isn’t racist because uchihas aren’t a race. And second of all his hate towards the Uchiha is completely justified
No it's not, what the hell. The lengths you all go to protect prejudistic behaviour is baffling
Carson's take on Tobirama is as stupid as Lindsay's take on Pain's speech
I love the metaphor of madara getting stabbed in the back. He doesn’t let anyone get behind him. And the people he does let behind him stab him in the back.
Also this is an issue for a leader- what madara desires is to be the ruler of the world and you can’t be a leader without walking in front of everyone.
Also itachi was only 14 when he slaughtered his clan. 21 at his death. He was a kid which adds to the tragedy
Also hashiramas lines when he stabs madara always get me
I don't think it's fair to write off the Tobirama character as simply a racist. That's way too low-resolution an analysis. It's like when Lindsay was experiencing Pain's character, dialogue and plan for the first time, got emotional and wrote him off as an idiot who was purely immoral. As I recall, she was criticized relatively widely for not considering the complexities of the circumstance and the character.
He does a good job of revealing interesting information and explaining his point of view in this episode, but I think Carson was busy dismissing him as a racist, which is ironic. He didn't hate the Uchiha, he was wary of their unpredictable, emotionally unstable tendencies. He was a pragmatist, he thought things through rationally. He probably didn't believe they'd serve the interests of the village well in senior government positions given their more tribal nature, but I don't think the police positions were offered to them as a snub. I actually believe he intended for them to serve honorably and with purpose, use their superior strength and skills to ensure domestic peace, be seen as upstanding members of the community so they would remain satisfied and once they'd proven themselves responsible and trustworthy--I don't think he'd object to future generations of Uchiha serving directly in government, even as Hokage. Also, an added benefit of working in the police force is most of your clan is away from the battlefield and away from the risk of dying in conflict. Also, fewer deaths and tragedies mean less Uchiha awaken the Mangekyo and go blind and crazy. Actually, given how much he seems to understand about the nature of their people, their biology and the expression of their duality, I wouldn't be surprised if he knows the clan better than most know themselves. He's really interested in them and studied them well. He's even allowed the possibility he could work with them in earnest as comrades if they shared his ideals on protecting and fortifying the cornerstone of the village.
I also don't believe he's saying any of this right now to Sasuke to cover his ass. Tobirama ain't no bitch, he speaks his mind and says what he wants to who he wants the way he wants. He's more about getting results and following through on duty than about appearances. I take him at his word over how he felt about what he did over the mask-wearing Obito who was telling his story about Tobirama in order to invoke Sasuke's ire. It was a bad idea to make ONLY one clan responsible for policing because of how the psychology and distrust develops between an authoritative force and the populace they oversee, but that was discovered only through hindsight. Like he said, Tobirama had to implement a lot of policy and structure that was probably at the time very new and experimental to make the village function properly. Even though some things he put in place didn't work out, given how well it runs now I can assume he did a pretty good job for the most part. It's fair to say, he might've been better served to be a little more trusting and that he made mistakes that he shouldn't have, but definitely deserves more comprehensive analysis and room for discussion than just, "he a racist". I actually think he's one of the more well-rounded Hokage we've had and I've not heard a bad word about him from the people who actually live in the village. Things were tense with the Uchiha, but that was exacerbated by Madara and Obito, not Tobirama.
this!! 👆
Fax bro everything he did is justifiable, and was a great decision at the time
I think you are overrating him a little bit. Yeah it’s true that reducing him to a mere racist is a little simplistic, but that doesn’t dismiss the fact that he is was very prejudiced against the uchiha. At first, Hashirama wanted to give Madara the tittle of hokage because Hashirama wanted to give something to protect to Madara for he had no siblings alive, but Tobirama frustrated that plan based on the prejudice that Madara could not be trusted (and I say prejudice because at the time he didn’t have a real reason to distrust Madara as he was willing to cooperate with them even when all his siblings died to the Senju). And I don’t think that he gave the uchiha the military police just because they were more suited for the task and wanted them to be good, he right away admitted that he gave them that task in order to deal with a new Madara as fast as possible so even when he allegedly wanted the uchiha to serve the leaf, he was also distrustful of them. And even if his policies stop the rise of a new madara those polices also created unnecessary unrest among the uchiha and a say unnecessary because the uchiha were willing to cooperate and maintain the village, they even turned their backs on Madara when he proposed to leave the leaf (and yet tobirama was distrustful of them for no reason even when they showed that they wanted peace by turning their backs on Madara's plans) those polices led ironically to the rise of madara followers in further generations and made the uchiha coup d’état inevitable in the future.
Tobirama also failed to keep the peace that his brother strived so hard for (let’s not forget that the first ninja war began in his era) since Hashirama never wanted to be at war with the other nations and a proof of that is that he captured all the tailbeasts and gave them away to the other nations to demonstrate that he intended to maintain peace with them.
This doesn’t make him a bad character, in fact he’s a really good one. It is these flaws that make him more interesting rather than the stereotypical ruler of the past who did everything right and got nothing wrong.
But yeah, I still agree with you that dismissing him as a mere racist is stupid.
Saying the tobirama frustrated the plan for madara to become hokage is simply incorrect because that wasn’t in his control, all he did was stated the facts the hashirama should and would become hokage not only because he was the sole source of creating the village but also because the people wanted it, u really can’t blame tobirama for that. Secondly, your belief that him giving the uchiha the power of being the police force was only to deal with the next madara isn’t exactly a bad thing considering that madara had just attempted to destroy the entire village. As the hokage that would actually be a great decision. And lastly blaming tobirama for the first great ninja war is a stretch because it started while hashirama was hokage and because it takes more than one side to start a world war, even if it started while tobirama was hokage, the war was inevitable considering that the creation of villages would also create new problems that they would have to deal with eventually.
I think everything tobirama did was justifiable besides him starting the process of pushing the uchiha to the outskirts out the village( he started it but it was mainly danzo that forced them to the edge of the village). And we can use his relationship with kagami uchiha as proof that he didn’t hate uchihas, it was just him being cautious of them to keep his promise to hashirama of protecting the village
@@brandonchavez6409 The structural grammar of your sentences is a bit hard to read, but I'm going to try to address your points in sequence.
1. I understand what Hashirama was trying to do by making Madara Hokage and giving him new purpose in protecting the village as he would a "family". Ironically, it's not that different from Tobirama tasking the Uchiha with the protection and promotion of the general welfare of the village. The problem was Madara couldn't bring himself to extend his love or trust to the villagers and see them as his family. Blaming Tobirama for that is near-sighted. Madara was shaken because he couldn't believe in himself after failing to protect his brother and comrades. It's understandable that Madara bares hatred and distrust of Tobirama, since he was the once who killed Izuna, but Tobirama also had comrades that were killed by Madara. They were life-long enemies made fresh allies. They are on equal footing at this point. Tobirama didn't object to Madara submitting his candidacy and "trying" to become Hokage, but made a lot of salient points for why you can't just arbitrarily select him as the leader without consent from the people or the Land of Fire. Hashirama tried to do that, and that's not right. Tobirama believed his brother would make a better leader because everyone loves and respects him, even the Uchiha. He was the driving force behind the alliance. He worked the hardest to make it happen. Almost killed himself at Madara's request to finalize it. Madara would've been a bad choice given his state of mind at the time. Because of his ego, and he didn't think he'd become leader and do things his way, he abandoned the village and came back to destroy it.
2. He did believe the Uchiha were suited to the task of being the police, he says this verbatim. I think you're confused. He doesn't say, "I gave them the task of policing so that any new Madara would be dealt with". He says, "I gave them posts they were very qualified for AND (separate issue) if another Madara emerged I thought he could just be dealt with right away". How are those two issues connected?
3. As far as all of Tobirama's policies that created unnecessary unrest among the Uchiha, you'll have to name the specific policy and cite your source. We've already covered the policing thing extensively. As far as that didn't work out for the Uchiha, that's more a consequence of oversight than a result of Tobirama's prejudice. I don't think anybody could have predicted at the time that the policing would've gone the way that it did. Not the Uchiha, nor Tobirama. He wanted things to go smoothly in the village. He even says, "I thought I had guided and arranged things so that Uchiha's power could be used to serve the village", after learning what happened after the fact. A lot of information is scattered throughout guidebooks and 3rd party media sources, so I don't know how reliable it is in terms of cannon, but Kishimoto unfortunately leaves out a lot of finer specific details when it comes to the 1st and 2nd Hokage and the timelines of the wars in the manga and the anime. Again, I've already said and HE'S already said that what made Tobirama distrustful of the Uchiha was their tendency to revert to tribalism and their emotional instability combined with the sharingan. I agree you always have to be careful to judge people on the basis of the individual rather than on the group, but the Uchiha have been shown to be ticking time bombs. Plus, he has been shown to show grace to Uchiha who conquer their more base instincts. Also again, I think I can safely say that Madara and Obito who are both Uchiha I should point out, contributed far more to the circumstances that led to the coup d'etat and massacre through their actions than anything Tobirama did.
4. I don't know how the 1st Hokage died for sure. I've heard some sources say he died in the 1st Great Ninja War and others say he died from his cells dividing themselves to death. In case the war started when Tobirama was in power, I feel I should point some things out. We don't have the specifics for how it started, so for you to lay the war at Tobirama's feet is disingenuous. Also, when you and Lindsay talk about how great things were under the 1st Hokage, something you have to remember is that the 1st is THE STRONGEST NINJA IN THE WORLD. He's able to get and maintain what he wants because no one can fuck with him. If he wants peace, he'll have peace. He just chose to do it through a noble/peace negotiating way, but that wouldn't have been an option if people didn't respect his strength. He was also the only one who could tame the Tailed Beasts with wood style. The other Hokage don't have access to that kind of influence, unfortunately. So once he dies, yeah I can see everyone returning to war to try and fill the vacuum of power he left behind.
We shall agree on the point that dismissing him as a racist is lame and stupid.
Finally, someone gives Konohamaru the respect he deserves.. He took down a path of Pain on his own, of course Sasuke is no match
I really like Sasuke's arc here. Everything that leads him to help out in the war just feels so organic. Kishimoto took the time to give him his own story apart from Naruto's and it really fleshes him out.
I'm on the side of "Tobirama is racist".
It is true that it was Hashi who begged and was willing to die for the chance that there would be peace between Senju and Uchiha, so of course, the villagers looked up to him more. So I can understand if Tobirama disapproved of Hashi one-sidedly appointing Madara as Hokage. Just because Hashi trusted Madara, Madara still doesn't have the trust of other clans and villagers. Even if Hashi managed to get his way to appoint Madara on his own, that does not mean anything if Madara was not acknowledged by the rest of the village. Itachi said "You do not become Hokage to be acknowledged. You become Hokage when everyone acknowledges you"
Tobirama only had large distrust of Madara. Maybe he also felt negatively about the rest of Uchiha, but that's unfair. The Uchiha may have killed a lot of people Tobirama cared about, but the Senju did the same to the Uchiha. Even before the village was formed, there were Uchihas who defected to the Senju, willing to put aside their pain in order to stop the fighting. And even after Madara left the village, the rest of the Uchiha declined Madara's offer to leave the village. Meaning they were very willing to build this village that can have a future. But because Tobirama saw the power of Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, and feared it, he decided to color the entire Uchiha in his bias against Madara. We can argue that Tobirama didn't necessarily want the Uchiha to be disliked as a police force, or cut them off from political power, but he literally said he wanted to keep an eye on them in case another Madara appeared. It's all because his mindset is of "these people are PREDISPOSED to hatred". That's racism. It was only later in Hiruzen's era that the accumulative effects of Tobirama and Danzo's discrimination that the Uchiha was forced to go up against such discrimination.
I can't quite agree with the 2nd Hokage being racist. Keep in mind he lived through the war between clans and lost many members/family to the Uchiha. It has nothing to do with the race but those people that they fought with in the wars were still alive and there.
Think of it like this. Lets say the Taliban was a clan. No country trusts the Taliban at all. Now while we have agreed to try to play nice with them for the sake of peace. No country trusts them fully and every leader around the world is extremely weary. Why? because it wasn't that long ago that we were at war with them. the memories of 9/11 are still fresh in a lot of our minds that were alive to experience it even though that was 19 years ago. It's a lot more complicated than just calling him a racist. That's just the easy way of thinking about it. Not the correct way.
To add onto that from what a friend told me. It wasn't even the whole clan's decision. It was the decision of 1 person. Their leader Hashirama that they just followed. That would be like President Biden allowing the Taliban into the country with open arms without restrictions. No one would trust them. Does that make those people racists. No it doesn't because of the shit they have done to this world. (I know Taliban isn't a race but for this example with the Uchiha please just think of them as their own race)
Also one more thing to add. You like myself don't like racists. Racists is a group of people we don't like because of the shit that they have done that we don't agree with. So if you think about it We are technically just Tobirama against the Uchiha (Racists in this example). So This whole Tobirama being racist isn't black and white. It's full of grey and I'd appreciate some thought into it before just calling someone a racist because others that haven't put thought into the full situation have named him as that.
7:10 Fun Fact: They never stated it in the show, but Kagami Uchiha is actually Shisui's father.
In the manga there are two versions, one says father, one says descendant
21:21 No, he had to be Hokage for quite some time, he had many establishments in the village that needed much time to be established. Minato was the Hokage for the shortest amount of time, probably.
"I'm not racist my best friend was an Uchiha" lol
Exactly lol
Tobirama is just based.
ah yes those darn black Uchihas damn that racist Tobirama tsk tsk
I don't think he is racist at all. If you really think about it, think of this.
The fact of the matter is Tobirami was a child of war against the Uchiha Clan. Many friends/family members died by their hands and many of those that killed Senju members were still alive within this alliance. It's not like this was 100s of years ago where the generations had nothing to do with the war between them. At this time of the story with Naruto about 16 years old, the Hidden leaf is around 70-80 years old. The 3rd hokage was a young adult while the 2nd looked not much older than he does in the flashbacks. And at the time for Tobirama the war against the Uchiha that he fought all his life. That he trained all his life to do to protect his people, When his own brother was killed by Uchiha. This was just years ago to him. Barely any time passed.
So if you really put thought into it that's like our current situation with the Taliban. While our countries are agreeing to play nice for the sake to prevent another war. No country trusts them and is watching them closely with weary eyes. Then Hashirama just invited them in on his orders not to attack Uchiha members that his clan just had to follow. That's exactly like Biden or who ever your country leader is just inviting the Taliban into your country with no restrictions. Would you fully trust the taliban? Considering the fact we have recently been at war with them and they have killed thousands including stuff like 9/11. Even though that was 19 years ago it's still fresh in a lot of people's minds that were alive to experience that. I'm pretty sure deep down 99% of people wouldn't trust the Taliban.
So why they feel the need to label someone who is reacting just like they would a racist is beyond me, I hate the fact that people have just labelled him as a racist. Because that's the easy thing to do because they don't want to put real thought into his whole situation.
It wasn't just 'an Uchiha', he acknowledged quite a few of them
When this chapter came out in the manga years ago, the hype waas sooooo real!!!!
That moment in the end is so hype with The hokage and showing The Stone faces was so Sick
Such a buildup this episode
Yeah
It was hype as hell
Suigetsu never was holding his own against 8 tails.
What i remember was Bee playing with him, Sasuke and Yugo while not really using full power. Hashirama is above or at leas at the same lvl as 9 tails who is above 8 tails, so ofcourse Suigetsu gets a little frightened. Especially when helping them has nothing to do with his own interests. I mean he doesn't need Sasuke like Yugo or isnt in love with him like Karin 😂
Sasuke is the most complex character in the show.
definitely not
@@mastixencounter who's the most complex in your opinion?
Agree,he so underated as character
@KA sasuke living in ur head rent free
it's naruto shippuden......nothing is really that complex
lindsay 'kakashi and guy are here and then madara is up here'
me *I Madara declare ......*
For that one moment move. then youre dead
@@Haz1Art in that one moment ,he literally drove madara to death , any other character would have died
16:54 she doesn’t know about the red beast of the leaf yet, can’t blame her lol
9:00 Lmao basically a nicer way of saying it was definitely your fault
You two missed so many small jokes when u two speak eachother in middle.
9:20 They actually showed that in the what if filler arc later on.
13:25 the third hokage was like pause
5:16 I was thinking about the Matrix everytime I've heard this plan
One of the most intelligent Shinobi for a reason
The 3rd hokage is by far the worst hokage. He got an entire clan killed. He let naruto have a shitty childhood. Allowed orochimaru to get away and let him go. And the worst thing he did was empowering danzo. And to all those people saying danzo did a lot of the bad things that happened under the 3rd hokage, the 3rd hokage empowered him. Danzo caused kabuto and nagato to go bad, which was under the 3rd hokage. Danzo tried to assassinate the 3rd multiple times, but the 3rd still didn't do anything. Literally every other hokage was better.
I couldn't agree more. He is a disgrace
Agreed... thinking about the timeline of Hokage too much just screws with things.. every way i've tried to figure it I end up with the 1st still being alive when the 3rd is chosen, and Hiruzen dying at around 65yrs old, would mean the Village is still less than or just a little over 100 years old before shippuden.. And then in barely 20 years they leap to not only having electric trains and televison, but also full colour video games.. The timeline is very messy.
I will say you're probably the most understanding of Hiruzen's inaction, at least you're not one of the people that really hates him as a character for it... I think
tbh I'm not sure about how he was in his first term, but I don't really blame Hiruzen for the quality of his second term. He probably retired in the first place since he realized he was no longer a great fit for the role, for reasons other than his age.
Fun fact(no spoilers past like next ep I think): Minato didnt teleport to the battlefield cuz he didn't have seals there so that have to have been just his body flicker. That's how fast he was
And then Hiruzen arrived next. Maybe he was faster than we thought lol
I mean tobirama is pragmatic hes nowhere near as biased against the uchiha as danzo,he freely admits hes worked fine with plenty of uchiha who could put the village first and he certainly isn't a racist,the uchiha aren't a race and were equals and opposite players in deadly conflicts with tobiramas clans so any prejudice he feels isn't unfounded or illogically blind. Looking at him through a lense of him being a racist simply isn't correct
Ok boomer 😬
Based and kekpilled
The Uchiha aren't a race??? Lolll dude, What would you call it when German who hated Jews? Or a Hutu who despised Tutsi?
Tobirama supremacy
@@goranstojanov1160 Maybe if you write like a normal human people will read your comments 🤷♂️
oh lets not forget about how the 3rd completely failed minato by letting all the villagers treat his son like trash..
It was actually Danzo who spread the information about Naruto being the nine-tails jinchuriki.
Thats Danzo'a fault.
“We’ll with Konahamaru there he can’t”💀
Pretty certain that Minato wins the title for the least amount of time. Kakashi was 13 at Kanabi bridge, and 14 when Naruto was born (thus when Tobito killed Minato).
“If Konahamaru is there he stands no chance” Bro WHAT 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hey Carson, question. Why did you have her skip both I itachi’s and kakashi’s backstory arcs? They weren’t filler last I checked…
Two episodes until _Something To Fill That Hole,_ my very favorite episode of the war arc.
Minato was the Hokage for about 18 months, in the kakashi fillers that y’all skipped, it showed the time period where minato was Hokage
God damn. Tobirama is by far the most misunderstood character in the entire show. People like you just can't see reason. No offense, you guys have great reactions, but fucking hell.
That's cuz Tobirama doesn't know how to show empathy in comparison to other characters lmao. He's earned any annoyances himself.
What Lindsey was sayin about hiruzen and Danzo rings true
That ending, hahahahah. Sweet.
Looking forward to next ones. It's gonna be quite a reunion.
Tobirama not racist, he Clan-sist or uchiha-phobic or senju-supremacist
Of course he is...because the Uchiha suck and are literally predisposed to emotional outbursts.
No he just doesnt tolerate any threats to the leaf. it doesnt matter where you from.
After this episode I respected both sasuke and orochimaru's a bit more because they sure have balls, although they seemed not very inteligent... Imagine the guts on orochimaru to even propose sasuke if he was going to destroy the village when the god Hashirama Senju cant even be controlled by him.... Hashirama would destroy all of them if sasuke made the wrong decision lmao.
Minato: I died during the nine tails attack
Hashirama: Wait that kitty can kill people?
Tobirama supremacy😎😎
Who is waiting for ep 372 hokage entry ⛔🥶
Suigetsu is literally at rock bottom in terms of strength when compared to the rest of the major players in the war. The eight tails fight is not proper compression as bee wasn't taking the fight seriously and half time it was Sasuke doing the most damage. If bee was fight Suigetsu one on one then his done for. No disrespect to him still a good character.
7:23 💀💀💀Carson is to funny
10:05😹
He wrong tho
The only thing Sarutobi could of changed is the Uchihas dying and that has nothing to do with the current war. Madara already had all of that planned and it wouldnt of made a difference
If I could live in Naruto, I would never choose to live in the Leaf Village. After everything that happened there, I'd rather live in the Hidden Mist Village.
Konohamaru vs Sasuke would have been so epic!
- I've been waiting hashiramaaaaa
- i'll deal with you later
- 0_0
I didn't really think it was Lord third fault to be honest because it was inevitable
"an average ninja is at the bottom, kakashi and guy are a little bit above that".....
You will correct yourself soon enough :D
Tombirama be like :“Now I’m not racist but those uchiha am I right?”
how dafuk is tobirama a racist lmao
@@Andrew-px9fj ut a meme
@@a.mseymour180 what made tobirama a racist then lol?
@@Andrew-px9fj just the fact tamhat if it wasnt for the uchihas biology then he would seem very racist
@@a.mseymour180 "if it wasnt", but it is tho... and he unserstood the problems on it, and was cautious for the overall village (including the uchiha). Choosing the hokague was literally democratically between clans (including the uchiha) and its also true that hashirama was the begger driving force to create the village... Further more, giving them the leafe force, can infact be a burden of make them object of repudiation, but it could also be a blessing if they bet on it as so, they could haveimproved their ways, use the dark past of their clans history to try and paint a better path to the future by leading the police force towards being respected and the pride of the clan. Furthermore i dont agree it would displace them that much from the governance of teh village... kagami had theoretically the same chance as did dazo or hiruzen, of becoming hokague.. considering all of them trully understood the will of fire and were capable. But the worst in my opinion, was how much madara doomed the uchiha.. and their "fated history".. but yea, i wouldnt consider tobirama a racist like the ones we see in our real world, but a sometime overly cautious.
Tobirama didn't hate uciha, tobirama just hates bad guy
Madara wasn't bad before leaving the village, but he still didn't like him
@@muchoyurdem5260 ofc he didnt, nither did madara like tobirama sice he killed his younger brother... also after give that garbage ultimatum to hashirama to test his guts when he literally knew him from childhood... and the proof is how easely manipulated he was...
@@Andrew-px9fj Maybe i worded it wrong. Both didnt like each other but it was not mainly because Tobirama killed Izuna, because back then Madara cared for his whole clan, which was all the Uchihas and not only his brother. Remember Hashirama also killed many Uchihas, but Madara still got along with Hashirama. It's more like Tobirama didn't trust Madara, was suspicious of him and didnt want him to have a leader position while Madara and Hashirama were the one who established the village. There is a difference in not liking someone and being against someone. And Tobirama wasn't only against Madara he was against the Uchihas having any leader role. Madara just didn't like Tobirama nothing more
It's hard to say who is bad and who is good. Technically both sides are their own good and both sides are each other's bad. But it goes without saying that Tobirama went of his way to try to understand the Uchiha. He was one of the few that knew that the Uchiha are very emotional and have a strong sense of love to them. But he also knew that they potentially were extremely dangerous and considering that they were recently at war with each other. That they had to stop fighting and try to get along on 1 mans word (Hashirama's) when these are the same people that killed many of his friends / family including his own brother.
I'd be weary also and very cautious as I'm sure many here would be also. Shit I may get along with my uncle just fine after finally making up with him which took years to do. but I'm extremely cautious with him because he has stolen and fucked over my father many times in the past. I certainly don't trust him enough to lend him money anymore. The same applies to Tobirama with the Uchiha. He doesn't trust them because the those are the exact same people he has been fighting with all his life.
@@aisukage1990 But that's not how a truce works. If you being wary of someone you made a truce,
putting tabs at them, watching over them and not trusting them, you literally breaking the truce you promised,
and you even make the other clan scared that you aren't really in peace with them.
You know what we call people that are watching over another clan of any suspicious actions?
It's called a spy. And spying on someone and being suspicious you made a truce isn't actually making peace.
Nomatter who is good or bad they both did evil deeds but Madara wasn't the one that started a war it was Tobirama. Even if Madara would have stayed in the village,
it would still be the same outcome sooner or later,
because there is one thing that would never change,
and that is that Tobirama was suspicious about the Uchihas. Not only about Madara.
They keep taking over the good stuff
Kakashi and Gai is not strong shinobe 😂😂😂😂 but no one can blame her
Next Episode "There is no mistake this chakra Hashiramaaaaaaa 🔥🔥🔥"
Hashirama is a wise Naruto
I'll keep asking...what is the intro music you guys use??? (Liked and commented for the algo)
Suiegetsu 🤣🤣🤣🔥 . I like him 🤣.
The real fun begins from here 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Please react to filthy frank - WEEABOOS
Yeah . The combined force of the hokages, orochimaru, suigetsu, sasuke, and juugo stand no chance against konohamaru
Would you please react to some sports animes like kuroko no basket or haikyuu, We'd love to see you.
They did a livestream and it looks like they're considering Haikyuu.
16:45
That's interesting line.
Wait till ..... You know what I mean 😝 🤣🤣🤣🤣
There is a filler about what would have happened if Minato stayed alive
5 more eps till the best fight in naruto
what time zone do you guys live in?
The Hokage are so damn cool lol
Next episode is the best out of the whole show
Karin seriously needs a therapist 😂
Am I the only one confused why they were just laughing when Hashirama said he killed his friend? Like it wasn't funny or anything so I sont really get it.
Because he didn't actualy kill him
because it's premonition for sasuke dying by naruto hands
They thought Hashirama and Madara were gay.
Why are you confused? They laugh because "Hashirama killed Madara" as he stated, didnt happen. Its not funny because its a joke, its funny cuz of the irony. (Its even more irony that Madara lived off his cells, though thats not the reason for their response). Thats all it is.
Madara was right, he saw the dark future of the village, Hashirama want to make that everyone would be equal to the leaf village and give the other great nations some tail-beast to them, but it incurs military build-up of conflict and war, Tobirama is the worst to me because he made the Uchiha that they can't be trusted and a government that was so corrupted and created the reanimations Jutsu, Hiruzen was so naive that he stop or kill Orochimaru so he let him go and Orochimaru has done so many horrible things, so because of Hiruzen Naivete has brut problems, and lastly Minato he was kind and gentle but it made him that he slowly dropping his guard down and starting to believe in Jiraiya's words of "The Child of Prophecy", you see prophecy are foolish to believe and dangers as well.
It's just like what Madara said in "episode 364" when told Obito about the reality, for what choices the privies Hokage did it never ends well, only bad things.
All your girl was saying dude is that compared to The kage, and the 3 monsters, he was fodder.
in which episode do u 2 realized that 4th hokage was naruto's dad? I wanna see that reaction.
Not body is racist in Naruto that what I think.
Ya
Tobirama is not a racist
Sheesh, the hokage slander.
Fucking Hell, you guys are getting on my nerves with the "racist" remarks. What, you guys got TDS too?
she will change her opinion about guy’s ranking soon 😈