I flew on the MD-11 about 4 years after they entered passenger service. Very smooth and quiet, even in economy, and best of all it had much larger passenger windows with incredible views. I miss them.
Funny enough, I think I did the same, and it's one of my very 1st memories - of my entire life that is. I recall laying down to sleep on a 5 seat middle aisle in an airplane with blue seat livery, years later (tho before I knew of the MD-11 and DC-10 2-5-2 seating arrangement) I always thought I must be miss remembering it as such a young kid. Then I learned about that seating arrangement and it all clicked. Either the MD-11 or the DC-10. Obviously I wasn't aware of my surroundings enough to know which of the two.
@@Kalvinjj I can totally relate I did not know I had flown on a 707 as a kid until I saw a video shot through a passengers window. The view of the left inboard engine pylon made me remember. It is difficult to realize these planes when we were so young we did not know there was any difference between them. Thanks for your message.
I flew in 777 during sars pandemic. Everyone could lie flat on seats. I tried and somehow I couldn't get asleep so i was back to normal seating position.
I had the same experience. Very smooth and modern inside especially compared to 747-400. It did land extremely hard though. The hardest landing and bounce I’ve ever experienced.
As a MD11 pilot for 13 years, it is a great pilots aircraft. Unbelievable performance that needs to be respected . You have to be on your top game all of time especially during landing. High approach speeds during landing and the aerodynamics make it a challenging experience.
That’s what I heard. As an airline A&P and pilot i never had any desire to fly on one. How many did Fed Ex lose? And the UPS accident that killed the crew in Japan? I have friends here in SoCal who worked for Douglas, and they were of the opinion the airplanes tail was too small. I’ll never forget changing the #2 engine with a huge Hyster forklift on a windy spring day, no thank you.
I flew all over the world as a Field Engineer for General Electric Company in the late 1970's to mid 1980's. The 747 and the DC-10 were my favorite aircraft. On May 25, 1979, I was booked to fly home for my vacation at my parent's house in Los Angeles. I was booked on Eastern from Albany, NY, to Chicago O'Hare, where I would take American 191 to LAX. Right out in front of the Schenectady Holiday Inn while waiting for a cab to the airport, I got a very strange feeling of dread, hopelessness, and despair for no reason at all. I was never afraid to fly. But that morning, as soon as it hit me that ''I'm not getting on any airplane today, even if they fire me'', the feeling evaporated and was replaced with a feeling like standing under a warm tropical waterfall. I cancelled my plan to go home, had the cab take me to the office where they assigned me to a job in Venezuela. I had several pre paid open return tickets to fly from Albany to JFK, a very nice 1 hour flight in a Metroliner.....but I took a miserable 4 hour ride by Greyhound Bus instead because of that strange feeling. I got my passport stamped at the Venezuelan Consulate in Manhattan, checked into the Lexington Hotel, and booked flights for the next day from JFK to Miami to Caracas to Maracaibo. It had been a terribly stressful week so I took a nap all afternoon until evening. I awoke and called my parents in LA to tell them of my change in plans and they were crying and sobbing badly. They assumed that I was coming home on AA191 as planned and was killed in the big crash. AA191 crashed just taking off from Chicago and killed all 271 people on board and 2 poor guys at work on the ground. The very next day, I flew on two DC-10's and a DC-9 to get to Maracaibo. I did not have the slightest apprehension about flying and rather enjoyed the ride over the Caribbean Sea. I loved window seats. The FAA grounded all DC-10's and it left me stranded in Venezuela for 8 more days. I was the last standby passenger to board an ancient worn out Boeing 707 to get back to Miami. It was my first and last 707 ride. I loved DC-10's even after the crash but never flew on an MD-11.
@@FlyingNL At the time, I was 26, an indestructible world traveler, and often spent the first few minutes after waking in a strange hotel trying to hear sounds, sniff the air, listen to voices to see which country I was in, let alone which continent. My honest attitude? Wow, it sucks for them but this kind of thing never happens to me. That changed years later. Then in 2001, I randomly met a lady who was an off duty AA Flight Attendant. The coincidences started stacking up. Her friend and roommate was a FA who perished on 191. I had met FA Nancy Sullivan on a flight 5 days before the crash that ended her life. She had been poking fun at me and used some sassy terms. When I repeated what she said, the Flight Attendants staying with us started to cry . These were HER quips that she used on single men...her trademark. Over 9 years together, I met tons of flight crew and told my story many times, learned inside info. For the last 20+ years, on May 25th, I spend a quiet day by myself and read all 273 names of those who perished. I never will forget the day that almost ended my life. Cheers!
That crash was caused by Mx errors and using an unapproved procedure. Also, many people have reported these feelings (way out of the ordinary) before skipping out on crashes - lockerbie and 911 flights also come to mind.
@@ghostrider-be9ek I rode on Pan Am Clipper Maid of the Seas from Heathrow to JFK in my travels. It still haunts me to see photos of the nose lying on the ground at Lockerbie.
I flew the MD11 as FO & Captain for Fedex. The HUD was a great addition, especially in crosswind landings. Still, you had to bring your A game everyday. Loved it.
Didn’t fly it but worked with the MD-11 for years as a load master for FedEx. This airplane was so easy for those of us that did the weight and balance. So very forgiving. Topside was a breeze to load bellies sometimes caused us a little difficulty. I know the pilots didn’t always like it but the flare at landing was always a site to see. Nothing like it. All the newer aircraft land so flat.
My father ended a nearly 40 year aviation career flying DC-10s for National and the Pan Am. He retired in 1991. Since 1942 he had flown large aircraft from all of the large companies- Douglas, Boing and Lockheed. The DC-10 was one of his favorites, with the Lockheed Electra being a close second.
@@ronparrish6666 Do realize that that the MD-Boeing merger took place years after the C-17 was designed and put into production. Checkout the YC-15 by M-D - that was part of a competition to replace the C-130 in the late 1970s. They ended up keeping the C-130, but nose section of the YC-15 was from a DC-10. The YC-15 has the lines of the much larger C-17.
I recall one airline was unhappy with the MD-11 because they were promised performance that wasn't delivered. They wanted to fly from San Jose, CA to Tokyo non-stop but with that performance short-fall and runway length, they couldn't take-off with a full passenger/cargo load in San Jose. So they ended up flying to Oakland to get full fuel load and then fly to Tokyo. Cargo doesn't care about fuel-stops whereas passengers don't like it.
I actually flew American Airlines out of San Jose to Tokyo on an MD11 and it was a great flight. I do remember that I was surprised to see San Jose to Japan flights, but that service ended shortly after that. It was much more convenient than having to deal with LAX or SFO
Excellent, hopped on a KLM from Memphis to Amsterdam. MD 11 had 80 hours on it, super sweet I think seven primary flight displays, crew members were taking turns switching out doing a thing or two while at Cruise. This is when they let us into the cockpit to check it out. 1996.
Worked as a subcontractor for UPS as a ramp agent, and the MD-11 crews despised it, due to it often being delayed 1hr+ for about 3-4 days a week. They considered it a good day if it got off the ground without any delays. And over the last winter season I worked as a deicer, and these things were a pain if it was snowing, since you had to check the third engine intake for contamination, but to get close enough you needed one of the wing engines shut down so the truck could move into position. But despite that, they are always an incredible sight to see flying, and it's a shame to know their numbers are dwindling.
So the MD-11 succeeded in freight service for much the same reason as a great many Hondas were sold in my city recently - they all popped onto the market at the perfect time to get scooped up by willing buyers, and being quality machines they tend to serve their new operators well.
Look .. the single bigges reason the dc10 /md11 lives on in cargo is because of the cross section of the 747 combie frieghter. It set the standard before douglas even thought about making it a cargo variant. These tri jets can take the identical frieght that a 747 can handle ( lower MGTOW ) . Other than the 777 no other airframe can match its capabilities of these flying fossils
Russian here. About 6 or 8 years ago in the waiting lines to the doctor's office i ran into some older crew who said, they used to fly them. I was surprised to learn, that airlines in my country owned MD-11s at some point. Those pilors said, they loved them, by that time (in the 90ies) they seemed better designed than Boeings.
@@aviator8583 I don't know which, probably not Aeroflot, otherwise i'd knew about them. There used to be plenty tiny regional airlines across the country in the 90ies and 00s, who specialized on charter flights.
I was lucky enough to fly on the KLM MD-11 when I was only 18 months old MEM-AMS, along with flying on the NWA DC-10 when I was 9. Now I get to see all the FedEx MD-11's when spotting.
At the time, three engines were less than the previously common four, and three was enough to stay away from the then restrictive ETOPS rules. Those big birds were intended to go intercontinental, and so "two" was not an option. Remember the distantly comparable A340/A330 saga ... with the quadjet to be intended for long range and the ETOPS-cursed A330 limited to a more regional role. Only now - after numerous upgrades - the A330neo (the smaller one) can fly over 15,000 km and over water.
At the time it was designed, ETOPS rule required more than 2 engines for LONG overwater flights. That changed while the MD-11 was still the DC-10 and still being sold, which killed most of the market for it and the L-1011. (The 727 was pretty much gone long before that in new production, though some lower-end airlines still used them).
Love flying MD-11F's on flight sims when they have a good one available, it's usually a unique experience. Especially keeping it from bouncing down the runways, apparently something that was a feature in the real planes as well. I like flying the UPS livery because my Grandfather built avionics in the military and became a UPS driver shortly after
Worked with FedEx and Lufthansa Cargo on the MD11F. Not easy to get in trim as it was very nose heavy when full (blame the big stretch forward of the wing) but you felt good when you did it right. Good cooperation with the warehouse guys was key. They needed to load the really dense stuff on the pallets that would go in the tail and the last few pallets had quite specific contours due to the fuselage tapering. loading had to be done in proper sequence. At FedEx we had a weight cart that we strapped the nosewheel to but at LH we did without.
Looking at the 90s and early 2000s, MD-11 was pretty much the only airplane its size class on the cargo market. Below it was Boeing 767-300 and Airbus A300, and above only the giants such as Boeing 747 and military planes like Antonov AN-124 and Lockheed C-5. Not until the end of the 2000s did cargo planes at similar size come around with A330-200F and Boeing 777F.
Loaded/unloaded for a freight company last year, got qualified on Boeings, MD’s, and A300’s. We all sighed deeply whenever we were assigned an MD. Smart aircraft for a purchaser, a maintenance crew, and for a ramp agent, but a nightmare for a loading crew. The strange center of gravity means that you have to load it in a sequence. Front bellies are ALWAYS first, or the plane would rip out its nose tether and fall on its back. If there’s an unlocked ULD (we called ‘em cans) halfway thru loading, it could tear a hole thru the tail. You need the opposite sequence for unloading. This load sequence wouldn’t be a problem, but planes are unloaded by 2 crews at a time who had to communicate. Oh, and let’s talk about the ‘90’s technology in the door locks, the ULD rails (some had old quick-detach rails, some had “butterflies” borrowed from Boeing), and the almost-useless auto-loaders in the belly compartments. Essentially, one in 4 cans would get stuck, to various severity each time. It took strapping young lad strength to wiggle them loose or push them in place. Oh, and remember this thing’s carrying capacity? Yeah, it’s unreal. But that means the heaviest cans, heavier by tons, got assigned to these. Well, these and 777F’s… but those were a dream. Upper deck on 777F is done with auto-rollers and joysticks. Uppers on MD’s are entirely manual. We hated loading MD’s but took pride in it. The freight companies love this ugly plane but probably won’t miss it.
One thing about this plane. When you're loading the cargo pallets you got to be careful. The plane has a aft CG its tail heavy with that aft engine. Use step loading procedure
Flew on DC-10s a number of times. Favorite ride: Across the Pacific from LA to Honolulu to Micronesia and back. A very comfortable round trip. Also, a very nice ride from MSP to Paris and back.
Used to be working for the cargo office of Thai Airways Zurich, Switzerland, which was served with a daily turn around BKK-ZRH-BKK service, sometimes with extensions to both AMS and BRU with a fleet of four MD11s, registered HS-TMD/E/F and G. Although those were long haul PAX flights, the aircraft offered a good cargo payload capacity of 20 metic tons with a full PAX load for an eleven hour flight. We frequently were limited in the available volume in the cargo holds rather than by TOFW limitations.
Do keep in mind that the MD11 was a Douglass DC-10 from after the merger - SAME basic design, some updates mostly to stuff like the electronics and engines, to try to keep it competative. But it still lost out on efficiency to the larger twin-jets that were starting to show up at the time, thanks to ETOPS rule easing. But cargo airlines are not as worried about squeezing every last cent, they can afford to use older LOW COST used aircraft.
First comment I've seen that addresses the change in economics that ETOPS caused. With the improvements in engine reliability, thrust and efficiency that occurred over the years, ETOPS was government recognition that a twin engine could be operated the the same degree of safety, with certain operating limitations, as a three or four engine design. So, if an aircraft operator can utilize a twin engine design, that operator will experience a significant costs reduction.
@@n1ydy It's exactly why the DC-10 family and the L-1011 both had low sale runs - the change to ETOPS rules meant that the "niche" they were specifically designed for disappeared before they sold enough copies to break even.
There are still cargo companies flying DC-3's wildly enough. Douglas/McD had some dogs over the years for sure but some of their damn planes have stuck around forever
My last trip aboard an MD11 (back in 2004) we were over the Atlantic when you could smell a sort of burning plastic odor. The pilots informed us that the aircraft was experiencing an "electrical issue" and we would be making an unscheduled landing in Frankfurt. Probably wasn't too serious, as there were many other, closer airports to choose from if there was any sort of real, we need to get on the ground ASAP emergency, but it still makes me wonder to this day just what exactly happened. Been flying for over 30 years and that's the only incident I've experienced.
Flew the MD-11 many times with SR and then LX, and twice with KL as well. They felt dated compared to an A340 or 777 to be honest, and the landings were harsh. But boy did they look cool! To this day I have a model of an LX MD-11 on my desk.
I once went plane spotting in Frankfurt when Lufthansa Cargo still operated this beast, in the terrace of terminal 2, when an MD11 took off from 25C it was the only aircraft that day that managed to shake the ground of the terrace, no kidding, and it was beautiful
I flew in a DC10 from MSP to AMS and I remember it being fast and (sitting in the back) a bit odd having noise from above on take off 😂😂😂. I'm glad I flew on one, just the once tho 🥰🥰
The predecessor DC-10 didn’t do as well with passengers as a result of the Turkish crash near Paris (cargo door) and the AA crash at ORD (engine separation due earlier flawed maintenance procedure) Between the bad PR associated with the 10 carrying over to the 11, and more fuel-efficient twins, the MD-11 never had much passenger success.
I agree the MD-11F is definitely a solid choice; but only on short to medium routes. Being less expensive than the 777F is effectively it's only advantage, as current 777Fs can do the same thing but with lower operating costs the further the flight goes. That extra fuel burn on the old McD is really going to hurt if you take it out too far.
I wish McDonnel Douglas was a separate company again. They built some of the greatest iconic jets ever. F-4, A-4, F/A-18, A-1, C-17, MD-11, DC-9/MD80/B717 (Yes the A-12 was a debacle) Convince me Otherwise....
Ass a passenger, I found it the best plane for long flights, both in business and economy. I must have had very good pilots, because difficult landing is new to me. Now that I know that it was not fuel efficient, I won’t miss it anymore.
Excellent video! Well-researched and an exceptional presentation! While waiting for a flight at Heathrow, I tried to get a closer look at an MD 11on a jetway but was chased away by a British pilot coming the opposite way. Come to think of it, it was in 1980 and it was actually a Lockheed TriStar!
@@Airborne380 If you do, I've read that the El Ten Eleven was highly desirable to the Crew in both cockpit and cabin but the aircraft was so new when the first fatal crash occurred. Investigations take a long time. That and other factors reduced the number purchased and to me, had a huge role in the demise of Lockheed, the takeover from Martin Marietta and the fictional aircraft that do what the rain/snow line cannot; hide.
I’m pretty sure I flew on a contracted trijet when my unit deployed to Iraq in 2009. Might have been an MD-11. It was some company that I’d never heard of before or since.
I flew on one of these years ago, with KLM. Have to say I didn't notice anything bad about the landing, despite being nervous about flying on a non Boeing or Airbus aircraft. I also had no idea they were not that common for passenger services.
Not entirely sure about takeoffs and landings per flight hour. They fly both medium and long haul, just like they would have in passenger ops. But they still do have fewer cycles overall. One big reason for using older jets like these in cargo flying is simple: ground time. A jet on the ground makes no money. And cargo aircraft spend A LOT of time sitting. They have greatly reduced daytime schedules compared to airlines where they generally go 24/7 except for maintenance cycles and some overnights. I have been lucky to be able to jumpseat on the MD-11. It is quite a machine. Coasting out over the grass on the other side of the runway in that long nose before lining up and then the seriously steep initial climb is something else.
Some companies had issue with at least one version of engine built in MD11, at least before some upgrade fixed it : under specific circumstances, fan blades would crash against hauling at rotation. So a usual jokes under MD11 pilots asked where they were heading to was to answer : "Well -next waypoint of start place- and then we make a decision" For readers non familiar with aviation: it equates being asked by your neighbour where you are driving today to answer : "Well, until next road cross and then assess if my car may go further"
So the lower fuel efficiency demands makes this less desirable for passenger planes, thus the price drops and the cargo companies are willing to take it on because they care more about size. Got it, this took way too long to say that.
Also as a pilot you can't just go from one airframe to another you have to get certified on the new plane that means if you flew for Fed Ex back when all they had was DC-10' s and MD-11's which you had to be certified on both even though they are just about the same when Fed Ex switched to the 767 all their pilots had to get certified in the new plane and someone has to pay for that and my guess is since Fed Ex did away with the MD11 they had to pay for all the new training and certifications
If they didn't make bigger planes that burn less juice nowadays they would. MD-11's themselves aren't ancient planes yet but they're based on planes that are certainly getting long in the tooth
The md11 is decent and it runs well as a freighter though it had a massive issue from it’s theirs engine were it breaks itself Mid flight A lot of bad crashes occurred from it Like fed ex 14 Which landed to hard United airlines flight 93 ? Still have no clue what happened to it There’s a funeral for it in my city San jose
Pilots of the MD11 usually say they loved to fly the MD, but say it’s just great until 500ft when it turns into the exorcist and it’s trying to kill you. As a mechanic, it was a great money maker.
Hey, dude. Only relaying what some of them said. But, you sound like an expert…so good on you. But I know quite a few MD pilots, including instructors who would beg to differ. Such is life.
@@RobtheAviator I flew it for 17 years and never had the slightest problem with it. It's a great flying plane. Any reputation comes from those who aren't doing it right.
I flew on the MD-11 about 4 years after they entered passenger service. Very smooth and quiet, even in economy, and best of all it had much larger passenger windows with incredible views. I miss them.
Funny enough, I think I did the same, and it's one of my very 1st memories - of my entire life that is. I recall laying down to sleep on a 5 seat middle aisle in an airplane with blue seat livery, years later (tho before I knew of the MD-11 and DC-10 2-5-2 seating arrangement) I always thought I must be miss remembering it as such a young kid. Then I learned about that seating arrangement and it all clicked. Either the MD-11 or the DC-10. Obviously I wasn't aware of my surroundings enough to know which of the two.
@@Kalvinjj I can totally relate I did not know I had flown on a 707 as a kid until I saw a video shot through a passengers window. The view of the left inboard engine pylon made me remember. It is difficult to realize these planes when we were so young we did not know there was any difference between them. Thanks for your message.
I flew in 777 during sars pandemic. Everyone could lie flat on seats. I tried and somehow I couldn't get asleep so i was back to normal seating position.
Guess it,s way better than the DC-10
I had the same experience. Very smooth and modern inside especially compared to 747-400. It did land extremely hard though. The hardest landing and bounce I’ve ever experienced.
As a MD11 pilot for 13 years, it is a great pilots aircraft. Unbelievable performance that needs to be respected . You have to be on your top game all of time especially during landing. High approach speeds during landing and the aerodynamics make it a challenging experience.
That’s what I heard. As an airline A&P and pilot i never had any desire to fly on one. How many did Fed Ex lose? And the UPS accident that killed the crew in Japan? I have friends here in SoCal who worked for Douglas, and they were of the opinion the airplanes tail was too small. I’ll never forget changing the #2 engine with a huge Hyster forklift on a windy spring day, no thank you.
Great plane. Thanks for sharing 👍
I flew all over the world as a Field Engineer for General Electric Company in the late 1970's to mid 1980's. The 747 and the DC-10 were my favorite aircraft. On May 25, 1979, I was booked to fly home for my vacation at my parent's house in Los Angeles. I was booked on Eastern from Albany, NY, to Chicago O'Hare, where I would take American 191 to LAX. Right out in front of the Schenectady Holiday Inn while waiting for a cab to the airport, I got a very strange feeling of dread, hopelessness, and despair for no reason at all. I was never afraid to fly. But that morning, as soon as it hit me that ''I'm not getting on any airplane today, even if they fire me'', the feeling evaporated and was replaced with a feeling like standing under a warm tropical waterfall.
I cancelled my plan to go home, had the cab take me to the office where they assigned me to a job in Venezuela. I had several pre paid open return tickets to fly from Albany to JFK, a very nice 1 hour flight in a Metroliner.....but I took a miserable 4 hour ride by Greyhound Bus instead because of that strange feeling. I got my passport stamped at the Venezuelan Consulate in Manhattan, checked into the Lexington Hotel, and booked flights for the next day from JFK to Miami to Caracas to Maracaibo. It had been a terribly stressful week so I took a nap all afternoon until evening. I awoke and called my parents in LA to tell them of my change in plans and they were crying and sobbing badly. They assumed that I was coming home on AA191 as planned and was killed in the big crash. AA191 crashed just taking off from Chicago and killed all 271 people on board and 2 poor guys at work on the ground.
The very next day, I flew on two DC-10's and a DC-9 to get to Maracaibo. I did not have the slightest apprehension about flying and rather enjoyed the ride over the Caribbean Sea. I loved window seats. The FAA grounded all DC-10's and it left me stranded in Venezuela for 8 more days. I was the last standby passenger to board an ancient worn out Boeing 707 to get back to Miami. It was my first and last 707 ride. I loved DC-10's even after the crash but never flew on an MD-11.
That’s a quite interesting story, I can’t imagine how it must have felt to learn it crashed.
@@FlyingNL At the time, I was 26, an indestructible world traveler, and often spent the first few minutes after waking in a strange hotel trying to hear sounds, sniff the air, listen to voices to see which country I was in, let alone which continent. My honest attitude? Wow, it sucks for them but this kind of thing never happens to me. That changed years later.
Then in 2001, I randomly met a lady who was an off duty AA Flight Attendant. The coincidences started stacking up. Her friend and roommate was a FA who perished on 191. I had met FA Nancy Sullivan on a flight 5 days before the crash that ended her life. She had been poking fun at me and used some sassy terms. When I repeated what she said, the Flight Attendants staying with us started to cry . These were HER quips that she used on single men...her trademark.
Over 9 years together, I met tons of flight crew and told my story many times, learned inside info. For the last 20+ years, on May 25th, I spend a quiet day by myself and read all 273 names of those who perished. I never will forget the day that almost ended my life. Cheers!
That crash was caused by Mx errors and using an unapproved procedure. Also, many people have reported these feelings (way out of the ordinary) before skipping out on crashes - lockerbie and 911 flights also come to mind.
@@ghostrider-be9ek I rode on Pan Am Clipper Maid of the Seas from Heathrow to JFK in my travels. It still haunts me to see photos of the nose lying on the ground at Lockerbie.
@@kimmer6 thats gotta be surreal .... wow
I flew the MD11 as FO & Captain for Fedex. The HUD was a great addition, especially in crosswind landings. Still, you had to bring your A game everyday. Loved it.
LOL try taking it into KBL in the snow, with a decent crosswind and no HUD ,, toilet paper anyone??
Didn’t fly it but worked with the MD-11 for years as a load master for FedEx. This airplane was so easy for those of us that did the weight and balance. So very forgiving. Topside was a breeze to load bellies sometimes caused us a little difficulty. I know the pilots didn’t always like it but the flare at landing was always a site to see. Nothing like it. All the newer aircraft land so flat.
My father ended a nearly 40 year aviation career flying DC-10s for National and the Pan Am. He retired in 1991. Since 1942 he had flown large aircraft from all of the large companies- Douglas, Boing and Lockheed. The DC-10 was one of his favorites, with the Lockheed Electra being a close second.
My fav back then was the Constallation...the Connie. Would love to fly on one. I wasnt born till 1959. To this day my fav is the L-1011.
Interestingly, MD-11's production as a freighter continued even after MD's acquisition by Boeing.
Because the acquisition resulted in the death of Boeing in heart, and MD has sat in its name since then with it's scummy personnel
And few people realize that Boeing still put the nose section of the DC 10 MD 11 on the C_17
Why would they fire you for canceling your flight when you where heading home for vacation?
@@ronparrish6666 The C-17 was designed by Mcdonnell Douglas. So Boeing didnt.
@@ronparrish6666 Do realize that that the MD-Boeing merger took place years after the C-17 was designed and put into production. Checkout the YC-15 by M-D - that was part of a competition to replace the C-130 in the late 1970s. They ended up keeping the C-130, but nose section of the YC-15 was from a DC-10. The YC-15 has the lines of the much larger C-17.
I recall one airline was unhappy with the MD-11 because they were promised performance that wasn't delivered. They wanted to fly from San Jose, CA to Tokyo non-stop but with that performance short-fall and runway length, they couldn't take-off with a full passenger/cargo load in San Jose. So they ended up flying to Oakland to get full fuel load and then fly to Tokyo. Cargo doesn't care about fuel-stops whereas passengers don't like it.
American Airlines
I actually flew American Airlines out of San Jose to Tokyo on an MD11 and it was a great flight. I do remember that I was surprised to see San Jose to Japan flights, but that service ended shortly after that. It was much more convenient than having to deal with LAX or SFO
I flew the MD11 for over 16 years as captain. Great airplane.
The DC-10 and MD-11 were always my favorite airplanes and in my opinion the nicest to look at!
Excellent, hopped on a KLM from Memphis to Amsterdam. MD 11 had 80 hours on it, super sweet I think seven primary flight displays, crew members were taking turns switching out doing a thing or two while at Cruise. This is when they let us into the cockpit to check it out. 1996.
It’s probably still running.
Worked as a subcontractor for UPS as a ramp agent, and the MD-11 crews despised it, due to it often being delayed 1hr+ for about 3-4 days a week. They considered it a good day if it got off the ground without any delays. And over the last winter season I worked as a deicer, and these things were a pain if it was snowing, since you had to check the third engine intake for contamination, but to get close enough you needed one of the wing engines shut down so the truck could move into position. But despite that, they are always an incredible sight to see flying, and it's a shame to know their numbers are dwindling.
So the MD-11 succeeded in freight service for much the same reason as a great many Hondas were sold in my city recently - they all popped onto the market at the perfect time to get scooped up by willing buyers, and being quality machines they tend to serve their new operators well.
Let me guess... you Drive a Honda? 😂
Look .. the single bigges reason the dc10 /md11 lives on in cargo is because of the cross section of the 747 combie frieghter. It set the standard before douglas even thought about making it a cargo variant. These tri jets can take the identical frieght that a 747 can handle ( lower MGTOW ) . Other than the 777 no other airframe can match its capabilities of these flying fossils
Let’s see what the A350F will be able to bring.
Algorithm brought you to me, glad it did. Very well done video.
Welcome aboard!
It was great view to see many Northwest DC-10s and MD-11 parked in PHX
Russian here. About 6 or 8 years ago in the waiting lines to the doctor's office i ran into some older crew who said, they used to fly them. I was surprised to learn, that airlines in my country owned MD-11s at some point. Those pilors said, they loved them, by that time (in the 90ies) they seemed better designed than Boeings.
Which airlines? Aeroflot?
@@aviator8583 I don't know which, probably not Aeroflot, otherwise i'd knew about them. There used to be plenty tiny regional airlines across the country in the 90ies and 00s, who specialized on charter flights.
The fact that no doors fly off the md11 during flight makes em still better than Boeing's.
@@bukkaratsuppa6414Aeroflot cargo had some
I guess after the Soviet Union crashed MD-11 we're cheaper than Boeings and less thirsty than the Tupolevs
I was lucky enough to fly on the KLM MD-11 when I was only 18 months old MEM-AMS, along with flying on the NWA DC-10 when I was 9. Now I get to see all the FedEx MD-11's when spotting.
The MD-11 should have been a twin-engine jet. McDonnell Douglas might still be around.
I don't believe there were engines large enough at that time to allow for only two.
At the time, three engines were less than the previously common four, and three was enough to stay away from the then restrictive ETOPS rules. Those big birds were intended to go intercontinental, and so "two" was not an option.
Remember the distantly comparable A340/A330 saga ... with the quadjet to be intended for long range and the ETOPS-cursed A330 limited to a more regional role. Only now - after numerous upgrades - the A330neo (the smaller one) can fly over 15,000 km and over water.
At the time it was designed, ETOPS rule required more than 2 engines for LONG overwater flights.
That changed while the MD-11 was still the DC-10 and still being sold, which killed most of the market for it and the L-1011.
(The 727 was pretty much gone long before that in new production, though some lower-end airlines still used them).
McDonnell Douglas is still around .... running Boeing into the ground now after the "merger."
McDonnell Douglas failed because of poor management and lack of innovation. Even if the MD-11 came out as a twin it wouldn't have saved the company.
I flew a few times on that plane with KLM between YUL and AMS. I've always had a good travel experience.
Love flying MD-11F's on flight sims when they have a good one available, it's usually a unique experience. Especially keeping it from bouncing down the runways, apparently something that was a feature in the real planes as well. I like flying the UPS livery because my Grandfather built avionics in the military and became a UPS driver shortly after
I flew on an MD-11 from SFO to LHR many years ago. It was a KLM half passenger half cargo. An amazing aircraft.
Worked with FedEx and Lufthansa Cargo on the MD11F. Not easy to get in trim as it was very nose heavy when full (blame the big stretch forward of the wing) but you felt good when you did it right. Good cooperation with the warehouse guys was key. They needed to load the really dense stuff on the pallets that would go in the tail and the last few pallets had quite specific contours due to the fuselage tapering.
loading had to be done in proper sequence. At FedEx we had a weight cart that we strapped the nosewheel to but at LH we did without.
I still get to fly on them…it really is a beast.
Looking at the 90s and early 2000s, MD-11 was pretty much the only airplane its size class on the cargo market. Below it was Boeing 767-300 and Airbus A300, and above only the giants such as Boeing 747 and military planes like Antonov AN-124 and Lockheed C-5. Not until the end of the 2000s did cargo planes at similar size come around with A330-200F and Boeing 777F.
Love the DC-10/MD-11 line!
I had the pleasure of flying on an MD-11 three times, twice with Swissair and once with KLM. Great video, very informative and concise!
Many thanks!
Very high quality video for a small channel! good luck!
Thanks, Comments like yours keep me motivated🙂.
Loaded/unloaded for a freight company last year, got qualified on Boeings, MD’s, and A300’s. We all sighed deeply whenever we were assigned an MD.
Smart aircraft for a purchaser, a maintenance crew, and for a ramp agent, but a nightmare for a loading crew.
The strange center of gravity means that you have to load it in a sequence. Front bellies are ALWAYS first, or the plane would rip out its nose tether and fall on its back. If there’s an unlocked ULD (we called ‘em cans) halfway thru loading, it could tear a hole thru the tail. You need the opposite sequence for unloading. This load sequence wouldn’t be a problem, but planes are unloaded by 2 crews at a time who had to communicate.
Oh, and let’s talk about the ‘90’s technology in the door locks, the ULD rails (some had old quick-detach rails, some had “butterflies” borrowed from Boeing), and the almost-useless auto-loaders in the belly compartments.
Essentially, one in 4 cans would get stuck, to various severity each time. It took strapping young lad strength to wiggle them loose or push them in place.
Oh, and remember this thing’s carrying capacity? Yeah, it’s unreal. But that means the heaviest cans, heavier by tons, got assigned to these. Well, these and 777F’s… but those were a dream. Upper deck on 777F is done with auto-rollers and joysticks. Uppers on MD’s are entirely manual.
We hated loading MD’s but took pride in it. The freight companies love this ugly plane but probably won’t miss it.
lol it sucks to work on , that number 2 engine was pain but it guaranteed overtime,
I only flew an MD-11 once with JAL (J-Bird) from Frankfurt (FRA) to Kansai (KIX) . I very smooth flight .
One thing about this plane. When you're loading the cargo pallets you got to be careful. The plane has a aft CG its tail heavy with that aft engine. Use step loading procedure
At UPS we use a tether over the nose gear when loading/unloading the MD-11 because of its tail heavy nature.
The bloodthirsty trijet who refused to die. Weird body but amazing computers that made it smart as hell. I miss it.
MD-11's fatal flaw was the flame isolation wich made it a fire hazard
Yet it was comfortable and good
Wish trijets could come back 😢
One of the coolest planes ever!
The coolest cars and the coolest planes are always the most unreliable and unsafe.
Lovely video....this is A+ production.....you will become a major youtuber if you keep this up.....greetings from the Caribbean :) !!!
Thank you so much!
Flew on DC-10s a number of times. Favorite ride: Across the Pacific from LA to Honolulu to Micronesia and back. A very comfortable round trip. Also, a very nice ride from MSP to Paris and back.
That fourth set of wheels is just bizarre!
Used to be working for the cargo office of Thai Airways Zurich, Switzerland, which was served with a daily turn around BKK-ZRH-BKK service, sometimes with extensions to both AMS and BRU with a fleet of four MD11s, registered HS-TMD/E/F and G. Although those were long haul PAX flights, the aircraft offered a good cargo payload capacity of 20 metic tons with a full PAX load for an eleven hour flight. We frequently were limited in the available volume in the cargo holds rather than by TOFW limitations.
Do keep in mind that the MD11 was a Douglass DC-10 from after the merger - SAME basic design, some updates mostly to stuff like the electronics and engines, to try to keep it competative.
But it still lost out on efficiency to the larger twin-jets that were starting to show up at the time, thanks to ETOPS rule easing.
But cargo airlines are not as worried about squeezing every last cent, they can afford to use older LOW COST used aircraft.
First comment I've seen that addresses the change in economics that ETOPS caused. With the improvements in engine reliability, thrust and efficiency that occurred over the years, ETOPS was government recognition that a twin engine could be operated the the same degree of safety, with certain operating limitations, as a three or four engine design. So, if an aircraft operator can utilize a twin engine design, that operator will experience a significant costs reduction.
@@n1ydy It's exactly why the DC-10 family and the L-1011 both had low sale runs - the change to ETOPS rules meant that the "niche" they were specifically designed for disappeared before they sold enough copies to break even.
There are still cargo companies flying DC-3's wildly enough. Douglas/McD had some dogs over the years for sure but some of their damn planes have stuck around forever
My last trip aboard an MD11 (back in 2004) we were over the Atlantic when you could smell a sort of burning plastic odor. The pilots informed us that the aircraft was experiencing an "electrical issue" and we would be making an unscheduled landing in Frankfurt. Probably wasn't too serious, as there were many other, closer airports to choose from if there was any sort of real, we need to get on the ground ASAP emergency, but it still makes me wonder to this day just what exactly happened. Been flying for over 30 years and that's the only incident I've experienced.
Flew the MD-11 many times with SR and then LX, and twice with KL as well. They felt dated compared to an A340 or 777 to be honest, and the landings were harsh. But boy did they look cool! To this day I have a model of an LX MD-11 on my desk.
I once went plane spotting in Frankfurt when Lufthansa Cargo still operated this beast, in the terrace of terminal 2, when an MD11 took off from 25C it was the only aircraft that day that managed to shake the ground of the terrace, no kidding, and it was beautiful
0:21 1:20 “mcdonald” 😭😭
The best window seat in aviation is the jump seat behind the captain on the DC10/MD11. It is absolutely huge.
Ive flown on a DC10 from Manchester to Orlando with monarch
Flew roundtrip STO-HON on a Delta DC-10 back in the 90s. It was an enormous aircraft and the flights had many empty seats. It was a bit noisy.
I use to fly back and forth to the Far East back in the mid and late 70's. I always stayed clear of flying the MD-11.
I flew in a DC10 from MSP to AMS and I remember it being fast and (sitting in the back) a bit odd having noise from above on take off 😂😂😂. I'm glad I flew on one, just the once tho 🥰🥰
The predecessor DC-10 didn’t do as well with passengers as a result of the Turkish crash near Paris (cargo door) and the AA crash at ORD (engine separation due earlier flawed maintenance procedure) Between the bad PR associated with the 10 carrying over to the 11, and more fuel-efficient twins, the MD-11 never had much passenger success.
I agree the MD-11F is definitely a solid choice; but only on short to medium routes. Being less expensive than the 777F is effectively it's only advantage, as current 777Fs can do the same thing but with lower operating costs the further the flight goes. That extra fuel burn on the old McD is really going to hurt if you take it out too far.
I wish McDonnel Douglas was a separate company again. They built some of the greatest iconic jets ever. F-4, A-4, F/A-18, A-1, C-17, MD-11, DC-9/MD80/B717 (Yes the A-12 was a debacle)
Convince me Otherwise....
F18 was made by boeing
@@gabrielquinones3343 Tha Fuh you say??!! Its McD from day one!
It was very tail heavy and had a tendency to pitch nose up. I would have still preferred the L-1011 for it's smoother ride.
Ass a passenger, I found it the best plane for long flights, both in business and economy. I must have had very good pilots, because difficult landing is new to me. Now that I know that it was not fuel efficient, I won’t miss it anymore.
Excellent video! Well-researched and an exceptional presentation! While waiting for a flight at Heathrow, I tried to get a closer look at an MD 11on a jetway but was chased away by a British pilot coming the opposite way. Come to think of it, it was in 1980 and it was actually a Lockheed TriStar!
Glad you enjoyed the video, I might do a video about Lockheed L1011 in the future.
@@Airborne380 If you do, I've read that the El Ten Eleven was highly desirable to the Crew in both cockpit and cabin but the aircraft was so new when the first fatal crash occurred. Investigations take a long time. That and other factors reduced the number purchased and to me, had a huge role in the demise of Lockheed, the takeover from Martin Marietta and the fictional aircraft that do what the rain/snow line cannot; hide.
My first international flight to Brazil was on the MD - 11
I’m pretty sure I flew on a contracted trijet when my unit deployed to Iraq in 2009. Might have been an MD-11. It was some company that I’d never heard of before or since.
World Airways had some.
My first flight was with an LTU MD11.
0:57 ‘twin-engined widebodies’ *shows clip of A320*
My first trip to Europe was on a Martinair MD11. I’m an air traffic controller at Memphis and we love MD11s for their amazing climb rate
Memphis is full of FedEx birds right? I bet you've seen an MD11 or two for sure
I flew on one of these years ago, with KLM.
Have to say I didn't notice anything bad about the landing, despite being nervous about flying on a non Boeing or Airbus aircraft.
I also had no idea they were not that common for passenger services.
Hahaha weird.... A lot of old heads I know say "if it's Boeing, I ain't going" --- this saying going back to at least World War II
If fuel economy is so problematic? Why can't they turn of 3rd engine while cruising? Or may be run only on 3rd engine while cruising?
My favorite plane...sadly never got to ride it.
Not entirely sure about takeoffs and landings per flight hour. They fly both medium and long haul, just like they would have in passenger ops. But they still do have fewer cycles overall. One big reason for using older jets like these in cargo flying is simple: ground time. A jet on the ground makes no money. And cargo aircraft spend A LOT of time sitting. They have greatly reduced daytime schedules compared to airlines where they generally go 24/7 except for maintenance cycles and some overnights.
I have been lucky to be able to jumpseat on the MD-11. It is quite a machine. Coasting out over the grass on the other side of the runway in that long nose before lining up and then the seriously steep initial climb is something else.
I ended up on a ex-swiss now NWA dc10-30 in 2002 on DTW-AMS.
I was scheduled to fly on KLM & I dont know whether It was to be a md11 or 747-400 or 767
Some companies had issue with at least one version of engine built in MD11, at least before some upgrade fixed it :
under specific circumstances, fan blades would crash against hauling at rotation.
So a usual jokes under MD11 pilots asked where they were heading to was to answer : "Well -next waypoint of start place- and then we make a decision"
For readers non familiar with aviation:
it equates being asked by your neighbour where you are driving today to answer : "Well, until next road cross and then assess if my car may go further"
In early days it must have had a significant advantage not having to fly ETOPS routes over twin engine cargo carriers.
Flew on a couple with Swiss Air about 20 years ago to the States and back to South Africa.
Would have been better to show one of the "tail stall" nose slam landings.
I lived in Memphis so I have a special place for the MD11s
The old CAPEX vs OPEX proposition.
So the lower fuel efficiency demands makes this less desirable for passenger planes, thus the price drops and the cargo companies are willing to take it on because they care more about size. Got it, this took way too long to say that.
I think the MD-11 was an excellent passenger aircraft. I flew it to europe many times from both LAX and DTW.
Also as a pilot you can't just go from one airframe to another you have to get certified on the new plane that means if you flew for Fed Ex back when all they had was DC-10' s and MD-11's which you had to be certified on both even though they are just about the same when Fed Ex switched to the 767 all their pilots had to get certified in the new plane and someone has to pay for that and my guess is since Fed Ex did away with the MD11 they had to pay for all the new training and certifications
Wasn't that plane fast as heck?
Even on a flight sim this thing is sketchy and fast lol.... Big plane to be going over the fence at 160 knots dirty as a pig
DC10, most comfortable airliner I ever flew.
I love the look. Honestly.
I can see cargo carriers using the MD-11 for another 100 years.
If they didn't make bigger planes that burn less juice nowadays they would. MD-11's themselves aren't ancient planes yet but they're based on planes that are certainly getting long in the tooth
0:38 is that the twin towers?
It is
I can’t be the only one who noticed then Twin Towers at 0:38?
LOVE this airplane!!!
KLM was the last airline that operated the passenger version.
MD should have stay independent of Boing. It just wasn't a good fit.
Flew on both pax and cargo MD11,s
Wants to KC10 was on its wheels I worked on it until it was delivered to the Air Force 🤔
The way things are going right now with Boeing, the 777f will go bust before it even gets a chance to haul anything.
Everything sounds like AI
Frrr
The md11 is decent and it runs well as a freighter though it had a massive issue from it’s theirs engine were it breaks itself
Mid flight
A lot of bad crashes occurred from it
Like fed ex 14
Which landed to hard
United airlines flight 93 ? Still have no clue what happened to it
There’s a funeral for it in my city
San jose
It crashed in a field because passengers fought back against Saudi hijackers.
This is a rocket on 12 wheels.
The full name of MD-11 is: Manufactured Defectively, 1-by-1. 😎
Nice video
Thanks
The Dodge Viper of widebodies.
Keep up the good work 💪
Thanks, will do!
Air Nederland?! Do you mean KLM?
I helped build this bird.
Me, too!
Pilots of the MD11 usually say they loved to fly the MD, but say it’s just great until 500ft when it turns into the exorcist and it’s trying to kill you. As a mechanic, it was a great money maker.
Then those are pilots who don't know how to fly it. This plane was very easy to fly at all phases of a flight.
Hey, dude. Only relaying what some of them said. But, you sound like an expert…so good on you. But I know quite a few MD pilots, including instructors who would beg to differ. Such is life.
@@huwleonard9261 The ones who would say that just don't know how to fly it. Most people I knew loved it.
@@johnschmidt8440you flew it John? I am current on the MD and it has a reputation for a reason.
@@RobtheAviator I flew it for 17 years and never had the slightest problem with it. It's a great flying plane. Any reputation comes from those who aren't doing it right.
I helped build this plane in Long Beach, CA.
Why does it have 202 feet?
Pushing cargo in a md 11 is not a star is down right dangerous
Trijet or Three Holer