Great video as always, Phoenix is such a great thing for film photography. it might not suit everyone with how the lab scans come out but people cant deny this is a very positive step in the right direction for film. Plus the branding is bangin!
I print my Xpan shots 30'x10' inches or 76x25 centimeters and they look fantastic. You could easily print the frames coming from that Fuji to be the size of your wall. lol I'm not in love with Phoenix 200 but I've purchased several rolls simply to support Harman. Anyone investing this much money into the world of film deserves support from the community. Thanks for the video!
I knew you were gonna do a video on it! Had found a website that had sample photos of it on it from different photogs & a couple of the photos had your name on it 😁
@@Shaka1277 🫣🤭 I'm just suprised they released Phoenix in 120 in less than a year after releasing it in 35mm! And with some small (but noticable) improvements to it too is always a good thing 👍🏽🐻👍🏽
It was nice to see what you took it out to experiment on and the meetup you went and saw all those people at! Oh hey, it's your Zeiss Ikon that I've seen in the details on many of your instagram posts! The Voigtlander 35mm looks so nice and compact on it! OMG A 617, INSANE! Those shots you took on it were excellent! I always feel like you need to find _certain_ places to make some formats work. The ones you took it to were great uses of it! I found the stories just as interesting interwoven with what you decided to test out each time! Even though you found a lot of it out in 35mm already (due to your EXTENSIVE testing), seeing the results of the smaller grain and halation due to the larger format were nice examples of the difference it makes! Also that Rollei looks super cool! Another awesome video!
Those tourists are pretty well known film photographer youtubers. I schoot film sometimes not at box speed and I also schoot certain frames at different film speeds but always get it developed at box speed..
It's getting there. I don't shoot much colour film and am quite fussy about what I use and the conditions I use it, so right now this still isn't something I'd go for, but if they continue to work on it then it might be something I'll be trying one day.
Love your vids Alex I’ve got no interest in this film - or colour neg in general - due to neuro issues with colour at the best of times, so had not watched any of the 418 vids on the 120 stock that YT recommended… including one of the random American tourists 😂 But had to watch yours, and the enthusiasm you bring to all your work made me imagine for a moment that I could have a bit of fun with this. Thanks for all the effort you put into these.
Hey Brendan, thank you for this. I am very passionate about film (including those other than Phoenix believe it or not) and I'm glad it comes through well. One nice thing about not doing this for a living is that I can stick to stuff I want to talk about, which makes it easier! Sorry to hear about the issues you have with colour neg film, but I get it. Many of my friends are totally disenfranchised with it for a range of reasons.
I’m looking forward to shooting some of the new 120 Harman Phoenix, I’ve rewatched the mastering phoenix vids again and want to develop c41 with a -1 stop pull. I was wondering how you calculated this and adjusted times for this pull. I’m also using the Bellini 3 step C41 Kit and wondered how you calculated this. Cheers 👍
Times I use for pulling -1 or pushing +1 to +2 are taken from some Kodak doc I found a while back - it's a 30 second adjustment per step within the (-1 to +2) range, so 2:45 for -1, 4:15 for +2, etc. times assuming fresh chems obviously - apply exhaustion compensation on top!
This is all great information! Thank you for doing all of this. I'm really curious, however, why you chose 200asa for the 6x17 vs. 100asa? I'm looking at different color negative films for a project using 6x12 panoramic format for both landscapes and portraits. This work is for publication, so getting the best possible image possible is really important.
Not having the orange mask might be the way to go forward - it makes camera scanning and especially color negative conversion much, much easier! No longer compatible with RA-4, but just tell on the tin, and I'm fine with that! Now, I want this in 4x5 (with a more reasonable price point than Ektar 100) … 😁
Oops it seems I didn't read the comment properly xD tbf, I wasn't expecting anyone to express a wish for aerochrome in a specific format, usually I see people wishing for aerochrome in general
You absolutely killed this! I'm curious to cut some down and reload into a 110 cartridge and use my Pentax Auto 110. Just to see how terrible the grain would be. Do you think it would be worth visiting in 120 format trying E6 again with a warming filter?
Thank you! I put a ton of work into it and I'm glad people are enjoying it. The idea of shooting Phoenix 110 is terrible, please do it! Filters aren't enough for E-6, so I'm not entirely sure where to go next.
Hey, I just found your channel. Thanks for this review, nice images and very helpful. I am in Montreal, too bad I just saw this. Not sure who your friend 'Marc' is here, I will try to find him. I've been shooting Phoenix in 35mm, can't wait to try it with my Bronica GS-1 in medium format, although I don't know if it's available in Canada yet. I like the retro look, these days when color film gets scanned anyway (when I have time I print my b&w in the darkroom), a color film should not aspire to look 'perfect' like digital. The somewhat saturated and grainy look of Phoenix is perfect for urban subjects. I haven't tried either pulling or cross-processing in ECN2, thanks for the tips I will get to it. One problem I've had twice, with the 35mm, is film jamming in the cartridge and not advancing at all even after seemingly loaded correctly, so the rolls were completely unexposed. This happened on two different cameras, both Pentax although I don't know if that is relevant, I have not had this problem with other film stocks. The company said their machine that crimps the slot on the canister sometimes crimps it too tight, so the film can get stuck and not advance and then pop off the takeup sprockets. Harman replaced my roll the first time, the second was just last week. Not going to be an issue with medium format of course. Cheers!
@@Shaka1277 Thanks. Other shops I buy film are Borealis Labs, Photo Service, Camtec, and Studio Argentique (which tends to have a higher markup than the others). Looking forward to using it. BTW according to his web site your friend Marc is not in Montreal any more, he is in Ireland?
@@Shaka1277 Ha ha his website is not up to date then. I will reach out and see if maybe he wants to shoot together sometime! Meanwhile a couple of shops here supposedly will be getting or have already gotten the Phoenix 120, so I will try it out soon.
Standard ECN-2 processing is sufficiently better than C-41 or a one-stop C-41 pull that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it, but a pull does help slightly more. The difference between ECN-2 (+0) and ECN-2 (-1) is just much smaller than the gargantuan improvement from C-41 (+0) to ECN-2 (+0)!
very interesting, esp. since Ilford ( the Harman tech subsidiary which does the B&W films, at least to date) has done only black and white [D76?] and a few other darkroom based products, like paper, developer, fixers, etc. Nice to see Harman/Ilford break into the colour film market, hopefully filling some of the gap left by Fujifilm and its declining stock inventory.
Do you think there’s a weird reason people seem to like phoenix in 120 better: 120 fim is usually DSLR scanned while 35mm is usually lab scanned. So most people are inadvertently getting better results because of the scanning method and thinking it’s better film.
Would you believe somebody actually asked me the same thing over coffee yesterday? Their argument was that most 120 shooters will be more careful about their exposure since it's often handled manually, and that many scan their own stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why it has already been "accepted" more openly than in 35 mm.
Hey Alex, one question about the scanning if I may. Do you know if there's any chance to get good scanning results with Epson scanners + Phoenix? I'm asking for all of us mortals who don't have digital MF camera to scan Phoenix. Ps. Your videos make me wanna cross process all the color film in ECN-2 :)
As matter of fact I can answer that! I have a V600 and the auto correction gives me excellent results without further adjustment. I'd go so far as to say Epson Scan with no adjustments is better than a Noritsu / Frontier with adjustments.
It's definitely possible to make a novel patent-safe set of masking dyes but I presume with these newer films the answer is always the same: it means more passes through the coating line, reducing yield, so they omit it. A B&W film may need 2-4 passes for all layers where a higher end colour film takes anywhere from 12ish to >20. That's a significant manufacturing challenge and if your goal is to get out the door, the mask is one thing that can be omitted and still give you a working film.
Wait, you mean Phoenix doesn't render fluorescent light green anymore ? Your photo at 8:06 clearly show a fluorescent tube anf it looks white. That was the reason I liked phoenix...
@@Shaka1277 fluorescent tubes have the same emmission spectrum throughout the world from what I know. You may have seen the sensitivity curves of the the phoenix, they are very spiky, especially in the green and red sensitive layer. The sensitivity spikes of the phoenix and the emmissivity spikes of fluorescent tubes align perfectly in the green region but completely miss each other in the red area. This is why fluorescent tubes have this strange monochromatic tint on phoenix. It's just like in the movie Paris, Texas !
@@Shaka1277 I ordered the film immediately when I got an email before I saw any of the videos posted. I figured "support this like you supported the Cinestill 400D when it was announced 220 film". Plus, it gave me an excuse to fill up my cart with another $100 worth of film to "save" on free shipping. I'll give it a go or 4 when it comes in. Maybe Harman will be the one to finally bring back 220.
I think it’s great that they’re making this film but it is absolutely not for me. I don’t like the colours and the lack of anti-halation layer is a deal breaker for me, it’s why I cannot stand cinestill.
Very enjoyable Alex, some beautiful images, and the images from the 617, wow! I hope you're enjoying the big film hungry Fuji!!
phoenix in 617 is absolutely insane
Thank you 🙏
where is the video bro
american tourists XD
Great video Alex. Thanks for all of your help:)
Thank you again for the opportunity - your trust and appreciation mean tons 🙏
these are probably the best images i've seen from this film
Pretty much the only review you need to watch! I'm so amazed by the ECN-6 cross processing. love the results!
awesome thabk you. got my roll today
The Pheonix guy is back!
Great video as always, Phoenix is such a great thing for film photography. it might not suit everyone with how the lab scans come out but people cant deny this is a very positive step in the right direction for film. Plus the branding is bangin!
Thank you Steve 🙏
Comprehensive as always! Great work Alex 👍 Those last 6x17 shots were a nice addition, and the night shot worked quite well!
Thanks Hashem, means a ton :)
lovely photos
Excellent review and wonderful images Shaka. Thank you for sharing.
Hi alex, i agree very much with the way how this phoenix renders on overcast day which i dont usually like! Thanks for the video
@ me being extremely clueless @11:09 😂 lovely video, and lots of respect for all the hard work that went into it in such a short amount of time!
I print my Xpan shots 30'x10' inches or 76x25 centimeters and they look fantastic. You could easily print the frames coming from that Fuji to be the size of your wall. lol
I'm not in love with Phoenix 200 but I've purchased several rolls simply to support Harman. Anyone investing this much money into the world of film deserves support from the community. Thanks for the video!
That's part of why I'm happy with "just" my XPan; the 5x economy of film is worth it😅
@@Shaka1277 Yea 4 frames per roll on the Fuji is pretty wild!
Phoenix in 4x5 😮 14:50
Next up, Harman Phoenix 8x10!
@@pg-l4469 ULF special order Phoenix!
Really looking forward to trying this and also hoping that a 4x5 version comes out someday lol
Me too :(
That 6x17 architectural shot was pretty nuts
Amazing video!! I love how much detail you go into, always learn a lot and will be taking your recommendations absolutely so thank you!!!
Thank you as always for the moral support :)
Thanks for this. Really enjoyed!
The Rolleiflex SL 66 was Barry,s favourite camera.
Thank you for your thoughts.
And looking forward to grab a few rolls.
I knew you were gonna do a video on it! Had found a website that had sample photos of it on it from different photogs & a couple of the photos had your name on it 😁
I have no idea what you're talking about ;)
@@Shaka1277 🫣🤭 I'm just suprised they released Phoenix in 120 in less than a year after releasing it in 35mm! And with some small (but noticable) improvements to it too is always a good thing 👍🏽🐻👍🏽
Can’t wait to get it in 120 now, looking forward to using in 6x7. Great series on Phoenix, you look to be the reference source for this film stock.
It's looking that way 😅
RIP my moustache. Thank you for memorialising it on UA-cam
(Moustache will return)
I wasn't expecting to see a Twin Cam at 7:40 😂
It was nice to see what you took it out to experiment on and the meetup you went and saw all those people at!
Oh hey, it's your Zeiss Ikon that I've seen in the details on many of your instagram posts! The Voigtlander 35mm looks so nice and compact on it!
OMG A 617, INSANE! Those shots you took on it were excellent! I always feel like you need to find _certain_ places to make some formats work. The ones you took it to were great uses of it!
I found the stories just as interesting interwoven with what you decided to test out each time! Even though you found a lot of it out in 35mm already (due to your EXTENSIVE testing), seeing the results of the smaller grain and halation due to the larger format were nice examples of the difference it makes! Also that Rollei looks super cool!
Another awesome video!
I really appreciate that, thanks! The Voigt 35 is one of my favourite lenses now, it's very hard to beat the balance of size and performance.
9:48 those two American tourists look like trouble! 😹😹 Karin is an internet treasure 😸
Got one of those tourists videos queued up once this current one is done 😸😹
I only do digital photography but this was so interesting to watch! You're making me want to pick up an SLR to try out shooting film...
I am happy to be a terrible influence. :)
Those tourists are pretty well known film photographer youtubers. I schoot film sometimes not at box speed and I also schoot certain frames at different film speeds but always get it developed at box speed..
It's getting there. I don't shoot much colour film and am quite fussy about what I use and the conditions I use it, so right now this still isn't something I'd go for, but if they continue to work on it then it might be something I'll be trying one day.
Totally agree - hoping that the second "generation" behaves a bit more normally so has broader appeal.
Love your vids Alex
I’ve got no interest in this film - or colour neg in general - due to neuro issues with colour at the best of times, so had not watched any of the 418 vids on the 120 stock that YT recommended… including one of the random American tourists 😂
But had to watch yours, and the enthusiasm you bring to all your work made me imagine for a moment that I could have a bit of fun with this. Thanks for all the effort you put into these.
Hey Brendan, thank you for this. I am very passionate about film (including those other than Phoenix believe it or not) and I'm glad it comes through well. One nice thing about not doing this for a living is that I can stick to stuff I want to talk about, which makes it easier!
Sorry to hear about the issues you have with colour neg film, but I get it. Many of my friends are totally disenfranchised with it for a range of reasons.
does the backingpaper also reduce the halations?
As far as I can tell, it's just the larger neg itself!
617 shots are always 🤯
I’m looking forward to shooting some of the new 120 Harman Phoenix, I’ve rewatched the mastering phoenix vids again and want to develop c41 with a -1 stop pull. I was wondering how you calculated this and adjusted times for this pull. I’m also using the Bellini 3 step C41 Kit and wondered how you calculated this. Cheers 👍
Times I use for pulling -1 or pushing +1 to +2 are taken from some Kodak doc I found a while back - it's a 30 second adjustment per step within the (-1 to +2) range, so 2:45 for -1, 4:15 for +2, etc. times assuming fresh chems obviously - apply exhaustion compensation on top!
This is all great information! Thank you for doing all of this. I'm really curious, however, why you chose 200asa for the 6x17 vs. 100asa? I'm looking at different color negative films for a project using 6x12 panoramic format for both landscapes and portraits. This work is for publication, so getting the best possible image possible is really important.
I opted for 200 over 100 (pulled, or developed normally) so i could showcase the IQ without anybody saying "oh that's just because you did XYZ".
Not having the orange mask might be the way to go forward - it makes camera scanning and especially color negative conversion much, much easier! No longer compatible with RA-4, but just tell on the tin, and I'm fine with that! Now, I want this in 4x5 (with a more reasonable price point than Ektar 100) … 😁
14:18 I wish I could get aerochrome in 120…
Reflx lab sells it...even in 220!
That's Aerocolor, a nice but very different film.
Oops it seems I didn't read the comment properly xD
tbf, I wasn't expecting anyone to express a wish for aerochrome in a specific format, usually I see people wishing for aerochrome in general
You absolutely killed this! I'm curious to cut some down and reload into a 110 cartridge and use my Pentax Auto 110. Just to see how terrible the grain would be.
Do you think it would be worth visiting in 120 format trying E6 again with a warming filter?
Thank you! I put a ton of work into it and I'm glad people are enjoying it. The idea of shooting Phoenix 110 is terrible, please do it!
Filters aren't enough for E-6, so I'm not entirely sure where to go next.
the biggest shock for me is not how good phoenix looks pulled, but seeing those random american tourists with digital leicas
Hey, I just found your channel. Thanks for this review, nice images and very helpful. I am in Montreal, too bad I just saw this. Not sure who your friend 'Marc' is here, I will try to find him. I've been shooting Phoenix in 35mm, can't wait to try it with my Bronica GS-1 in medium format, although I don't know if it's available in Canada yet. I like the retro look, these days when color film gets scanned anyway (when I have time I print my b&w in the darkroom), a color film should not aspire to look 'perfect' like digital. The somewhat saturated and grainy look of Phoenix is perfect for urban subjects. I haven't tried either pulling or cross-processing in ECN2, thanks for the tips I will get to it. One problem I've had twice, with the 35mm, is film jamming in the cartridge and not advancing at all even after seemingly loaded correctly, so the rolls were completely unexposed. This happened on two different cameras, both Pentax although I don't know if that is relevant, I have not had this problem with other film stocks. The company said their machine that crimps the slot on the canister sometimes crimps it too tight, so the film can get stuck and not advance and then pop off the takeup sprockets. Harman replaced my roll the first time, the second was just last week. Not going to be an issue with medium format of course. Cheers!
Thanks! Check out PhotoStDenis - I saw them post about having it in stock. Have fun :)
@@Shaka1277 Thanks. Other shops I buy film are Borealis Labs, Photo Service, Camtec, and Studio Argentique (which tends to have a higher markup than the others). Looking forward to using it. BTW according to his web site your friend Marc is not in Montreal any more, he is in Ireland?
Marc moved to Ireland a few years ago and back to Montreal last year!
@@Shaka1277 Ha ha his website is not up to date then. I will reach out and see if maybe he wants to shoot together sometime! Meanwhile a couple of shops here supposedly will be getting or have already gotten the Phoenix 120, so I will try it out soon.
Thanks for the testing! To clarify, do you recommend pulling if developing in ECN2 as well? Or just C41?
Standard ECN-2 processing is sufficiently better than C-41 or a one-stop C-41 pull that I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it, but a pull does help slightly more. The difference between ECN-2 (+0) and ECN-2 (-1) is just much smaller than the gargantuan improvement from C-41 (+0) to ECN-2 (+0)!
very interesting, esp. since Ilford ( the Harman tech subsidiary which does the B&W films, at least to date) has done only black and white [D76?] and a few other darkroom based products, like paper, developer, fixers, etc. Nice to see Harman/Ilford break into the colour film market, hopefully filling some of the gap left by Fujifilm and its declining stock inventory.
Do you think there’s a weird reason people seem to like phoenix in 120 better: 120 fim is usually DSLR scanned while 35mm is usually lab scanned. So most people are inadvertently getting better results because of the scanning method and thinking it’s better film.
Would you believe somebody actually asked me the same thing over coffee yesterday? Their argument was that most 120 shooters will be more careful about their exposure since it's often handled manually, and that many scan their own stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why it has already been "accepted" more openly than in 35 mm.
Hey Alex, one question about the scanning if I may. Do you know if there's any chance to get good scanning results with Epson scanners + Phoenix? I'm asking for all of us mortals who don't have digital MF camera to scan Phoenix. Ps. Your videos make me wanna cross process all the color film in ECN-2 :)
As matter of fact I can answer that! I have a V600 and the auto correction gives me excellent results without further adjustment. I'd go so far as to say Epson Scan with no adjustments is better than a Noritsu / Frontier with adjustments.
@@Shaka1277 Great to hear! Thank you Alex!
Ive always wondered why this film, and other like Inoviscoat-made Orwo lacks the orange mask. Is the specific dye patented or something?
It's definitely possible to make a novel patent-safe set of masking dyes but I presume with these newer films the answer is always the same: it means more passes through the coating line, reducing yield, so they omit it. A B&W film may need 2-4 passes for all layers where a higher end colour film takes anywhere from 12ish to >20. That's a significant manufacturing challenge and if your goal is to get out the door, the mask is one thing that can be omitted and still give you a working film.
@@Shaka1277 Ok, thanks
Aight but when we going into large format.
I'm experiencing a loud audio glitch at 6:01, sounds like a sparkle from my speakers
Yep, it's not there in the editor and has something to do with the jumpcut. I tried cutting a few different ways and it didn't go away.
Noice
Wait, you mean Phoenix doesn't render fluorescent light green anymore ? Your photo at 8:06 clearly show a fluorescent tube anf it looks white. That was the reason I liked phoenix...
I'm unsure. It was a different country so the specific type of lighting could be entirely different to what gets used here.
@@Shaka1277 fluorescent tubes have the same emmission spectrum throughout the world from what I know. You may have seen the sensitivity curves of the the phoenix, they are very spiky, especially in the green and red sensitive layer. The sensitivity spikes of the phoenix and the emmissivity spikes of fluorescent tubes align perfectly in the green region but completely miss each other in the red area. This is why fluorescent tubes have this strange monochromatic tint on phoenix. It's just like in the movie Paris, Texas !
Has anyone tried scanning these on the Nikon Coolscan 9000 with Nikon Scan software? Or am I the guineapig?
Sounds like something you have to try :)
@@Shaka1277 I ordered the film immediately when I got an email before I saw any of the videos posted. I figured "support this like you supported the Cinestill 400D when it was announced 220 film". Plus, it gave me an excuse to fill up my cart with another $100 worth of film to "save" on free shipping. I'll give it a go or 4 when it comes in. Maybe Harman will be the one to finally bring back 220.
Looks like I have to see how much my lab charges for pulling dev…
the price is just too outrageous for a novelty roll of film...
I think it’s great that they’re making this film but it is absolutely not for me. I don’t like the colours and the lack of anti-halation layer is a deal breaker for me, it’s why I cannot stand cinestill.
That's entirely fair. They have to start somewhere and made great progress - let's hope they keep it up.
@@Shaka1277 Yeah I really hope they continue to develop colour film, maaaaybe even some positive film? That would be exciting.
Absolutely! Harmanchrome 400 🙏
@@Shaka1277 Dare to dream!