This entire political move was so well planned and executed. First, credit humans with inspiring the alliance. Then, describe the benefits. Thirdly, terrify with a fleet of super advanced ships. After that calm everyone down and while they are still shocked make Sheridan president of the alliance
There were a big problem though: For few years Clark's regime had been warning about hostile aliens. Then after a massive orbital battle regular people see vast fleet of alien ships flying over them. This would have caused insane amount of panic among regular people. There would have been a lot of property damage and deaths. I mean in the previous episode Clark intended to use advanced Omega destroyer fleet to wipe out every defected Earth Alliance ship..to convince people that it's just aliens causing trouble. I would have used a lot of Thunderbolt-fighters in this formation. That way people would have realized the human involvement and it would have been even greater show of force.
I need to see that scene where they announce Sheridan as the president of the Alliance. Whichever party took over after Clark didn't like Sheridan; they wanted him as a hero to take over Babylon 5, but didn't like what he stood for after that.
I've always loved this scene. Ominous music and show of force included. The ISA is what the UN here in the real world should be. Any organization dedicated to creating peace should be prepared to fight to create it and preserve it. "If you want peace, prepare for war".......... true words never spoken. Even Delen and Sheridan find this out in Season 5. And how badly it backfired when they had to support an ISA attack on Centauri, which played right into the Drakh's hands.
It's sad that to remain independent and impartial requires military might, otherwise risk being overtaken or forced to take a side by the powerful of the time.
The thing that on reflection I forsee a problem is that while the Rangers currently have the most advanced fleet they can not improve over time. Over time races will discover new tech or rediscover lost tech from the old ones which will outclass what the Rangers are using. What do they do when that point nears? Do the Rangers resort to terrorist tactics to maintain their advantages? Who builds the ships as well? Does the new Alliance foot the bill for the Rangers, their training, housing and everything else a merc company requires to function? If so does that mean they will create a tax for all member races now? You see how the fantasy becomes a nightmare?
She specifically said the alliance would not enforce the peace so they would not fight to preserve it or get involved between neighbours other than with information.
And Delen and Sheridan did not support the attack on Centauri Prime. They said they would if the rest of the alliance thought it was necessary but the alliance pulled the attack off without telling them and Sheridan was pissed about it. They were finding out about the shadow tech that was used in Centauri ships at that point and would never have agreed to it.
Funny thought really. The donny surely has the drive power to basically brute force an ascend.... it would probably also torch the next few miles of the planet.
@@elizabethjansen2684 It's pragmatism. Technology is overutilized as it is. And we see the negative impact everywhere. But then the only other position of most people seems to be ban all technology, which is equally ridiculous. Right tool for the right job. Nothing more, nothing less. Using antigravity for a bed or something, would be like using a nuke where one of those little snap-popper fireworks would suffice...or using the oar of an ancient greek warship to eat a bowl of cereal.
1:38 Look at Londo. Is it just me or is he getting a very unpleasant flashback of the day he looked up... and saw the Shadow fleet flying in the skies of Centauri Prime?
You apparently missed the huge fleet of whitestars which are the other shoe should tbe kimba ya shoe fail. The UN was always marred by 2 things: Veto powers, held by exactly tbe same people who basically start half the shitfires on the planet. Total Lack of military power.
The music was so ominous that you'd almost think that the Alliance wasn't the good guys. For real the musical cues made it sound like Delenn was saying something sinister or that as soon as she was done speaking something bad was gonna happen. Just a funny choice of music there.
But in the time-jump episode at the end of season 4, you see that the alliance and rangers don't give up on earth, even after earth has given up on them and almost destroyed itself in world war x.
Yup ! Spot on observation, Meta. i'll go as far as saying it's one of the worst musical miss uses i ever heard in a sci fi show. It took me out of the moment a lil bit.
The Ranger fly-over reminds me of the Allied fly-over over Tokyo on September 2, 1945 when the Japanese signed 'the instrument of surrender. Wondering out loud if this historical fact provided the inspiration for Straczynski to do the same.
"General" What's the meaning of this who was manning Earth's defence grid "Captain" Lt. Smith sir "General" Lt. Smith, where did those ships come from "Lt. Smith" Sir, they just jumped out of Hyperspace and just as quickly jumped back in "General" Captain, I want Pvt. Smith manning a weather station on Pluto by the end of the day, just mail him his clothes
Wait, so the White Star ships arrived there unannounced? Just imagine some human commander mistaking that for an invasion or a raid or something and opening fire right there and then. If you come in peace with a surprise warfleet, you might want to avoid misundestandings.
@@SantomPh That wouldn't have helped. Had I been a commander on the ground I would have scrambled everything to intecept immediately and began firing whatever weapons I could sceaming at those ships to indetify themselves and power down immeditly as they are violating earth space and a intersteller confrance.
Just to break this down, G'Kar announces the new alliance and then Delenn goes on to introduce the Rangers and has them fly over the Earth government to prove her point about how powerful they are. She is talking about "peace," but the fly over just demonstrates that they will kick your ass if you try to attack them. Basically it is her saying "Look puny Earthlings our ships are more powerful than anything you have and we can fly them over your seat of government any time we want."
+hagamapama there's projecting force and there's plain intimidation. They could have just mentioned the White Stars, but to have them flyover the Earth parliament just seems overkill.
Kevin Bolton No. Projecting force and intimidation are close enough to the same thing that a distinction is not significant. If you're doing it right, anyone considering opposing you is intimidated.
+hagamapama look at where they are though. They are over the parliament. What would Americans think if a new alliance flew over The Capitol or the British if they flew over the Houses of Parliament? They could have made a reference to them and the role they played in the Shadow and Earth Civil Wars and just flown a few over.
The hunter "Take life without giving back" The Farmer " Recycle in an infinite cycle of life and death" Meanwhile The Gardener "expand life and creation itself into a more diversified form like a spiraling vortex expanding outward toward infinity and sustainability "
So many odd people in the comments listening to "You may decline if you wish. We will leave in peace and honor your decision" and somehow hearing "join us or die".
@@thedarkprinceVvvvV nice quote from ceremonies of light and darkness the episode after servered dreams even in that episode mira furlan does one of the best quotes . This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw, .. or be destroyed." [in the White Star!] "Negative. We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship." "Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.
@@alternativefashiongothicga7 Very true, this series is one of my favorites ive been sharing it with friends who have never seen it since it came out before they were around.
@@thedarkprinceVvvvV true but there is episodes like into the shadow of a z ha dum and zh ha dum where you see the icarus go to that planet and you here kosh say z ha dum and then the camera pans towards a dark cave then in that cave the most evil and horror alien in the Babylon 5 franchise a shadow alien that has 3 eyes on top and 4 on the bottom and one of the most strange insect sounds it puts a shiver when I see it I prefer them getting shot by PPG fire by Sheridan and londo guards . Do you see what I mean plus they have claws so that's how they must fight like Sheridan was injured in a z ha dum . Before kosh said jump jump now . Even Species8472 put a shiver in my body too from star trek voyager
@@alternativefashiongothicga7 yes I remember that, the shadows definitely had their own creepy scary vibe about them. especially the scream their vessels made when they went by or just the way they modified people in general.
They then named Sheridan, the man to be punished by Earthforce for everything, President as a way of saying: "Yeah a lot of stuff happened beyond your little blue sphere."
I hope they never try to do a reboot of this series. Maybe improve the CGI. But nothing else. There is nothing else they can do to improve it. They certainly can't out do it.
The music that plays when the Whitestars fly past Earthdome always make me a little unnerved. It just feels a tiny bit wrong, because it has sort of an intimidating tone and it always made me think of a show of force by an authoritarian power.
Yes, but at the time, I also felt that it was necessary to show that the rangers are a serious obstacle to any kind of "oh yeah, let's just take the benefits and ignore the rules" ambition.
I think that's at least part of the point. Also, how she describes the Rangers... They are more like a spy agency which can fight than a military: space CIA or Mossad. However, they aren't authoritarian. The Rangers are independent. Each world in the alliance is independent and sovereign in all but how they deal with other worlds. Not sure that sort of structure could last long-term, but I'm not sure any political structure can.
I love this scene, and am a huge B5 fan. I know I will be in the minority here, but I have always been bothered by the White Star fly-over. Earth had just come out of a devastating and divisive civil war where many from the losing side were still at large. Sending the White Stars over the heart of the Earth Alliance government unannounced could easily have been seen as provocative, and undermined the Alliance offer for Earth to join.
I agree 100%. This was actually a BAD move by the ISA. You want a strong, but semi-defeated, power to join you? So you unexpectedly bring in a fleet of warships to intimidate them? What choice did they have?
Probably because it's not at all inspiring. Because it's political gobbledygook. A series of platitudes that have no basis in reality, let alone history.
Pretty sure that it was meant as a threat. The Interstellar Alliance may have been a peaceful organization. But they were not defenseless and powerless. The White Stars alone were feared by just about everyone.
@ Cassandra Stjarna I don't think it was meant as a threat, more to show that if Earth would join the ISA they would have a strong partner/ally and be part of an Alliance who can also defend its member worlds from outside threats. Delenn said that Humans and Minbari were part of the Rangers, which already is reassuring for Earth.
Wrong Babylon 5 is a globalist propaganda wank fest like Star Trek. You are no different than the Trekkie cult in their irrational devotion to these series that spit in your face. Babylon 5 and Star Trek teach to accept being a second class citizen and give up everything for the sake of the one world order aka the New World Order aka one world government aka globalism.
Actually that is the UN and European Union both are attempts to take the right to self determination and sovereignty only in this show's case it's entire planets and civilizations and not just individual nations. Pretty much it is the cancer that is globalism or continental unions just in space.
Yea, you don't understand the ISA of Babylon 5... The ISA respected each Nations rights, such as electing their own leaders, as long as they kept to the ideals of the ISA
So basically, you'd favor a situation were states would fight it out roughly once every generation with millions dead and great potential lost, is that it? Thanks, but me as an European would prefer to get rid of those petty nation states then fight and die for the insanity of a "chosen" few
@@kamenridernephilim UN is impotent, castrated, worthless, stronger countries can always invade weak ones under "humanitarian" clause even if it violates sovereignty of another nation, and is expressly forbidden by UN charter, and yet UN regularly ignores this if U.S. , Germany, France, England are the ones doing it. Globalism always existed, nationalism is a recent thing really, we can argue of which shade of grey is the darkest one but it's pointless. No no it's the corporations that are the problem, large multinational corporations, but just banning them won't solve anything, nor that you would be able to, U.S. itself is bought, and paid for by these large conglomerates, why would they want to change they have no incentive, i say they should get some, form a tax on accumulated wealth and tax 1% heavy, use that money to pay rest of the people fixed addition to their salaries, and expect standards to triple in quality.
That was a terrible idea to fly that fleet overhead. That would have and should have lead to an outright shoot out and battle right there. Not to mention that would have terrfied people on earth.
I assume the higher-up authorities were asked for permission in advance to allow this fly-over at this moment otherwise I entirely agree this would be a very dangerous move.
You can recreate the visuals, update the CGI...but...it will be hollow. G`Kar, Londo, Vir and all the others can`t be recreated. They where giants walking amongst the stars
The way they've been ruining series? No! They completely ruined Dune. Rented the first one out of sequence things not even implied in the books ,Or the other films. Characters changed and warped.
@@TheKingTywinLannister I have to say I rented the newest dune movie and it was beyond awful. Out of sequence events is only the beginning but I've read the books more than a few times.
That show of force in the middle of the earth capital, delenn really did not research earth history properly. Humans tend to don't react to such threats well. Still they were lucky, maybe humans were done fighting after the civil war.
This was the Episode when B5 actualy did achive its goal : To promote peace throughout earth and their allies. And with the Whitestar Fleet and the Rangers protecting said peace (Victory proves without a doubt that they can (RIP Excalibur thou, fine ship with fine commander went down to give the Victory the shot needed). Also... What Delen said is wrong. "Not on military force" yeaaaaa... shuuuure... Thats why you basicaly INVENT the White Star Destroyers, because it is not needed through military power.
Why did Delenn mention the First Ones? Thanks to Clark's regime, the people of Earth wouldn't have any idea who the First Ones are as they didn't even know about the Shadow War.
I have no idea why JMS thought this was a good idea. Earth was just coming out of a civil war, where many even among the victors felt Sheridan's way was hasty - that the outright war left them weak and vulnerable to aliens. The losing side believed Sheridan was under the influence of aliens, in particular Delenn. So what do they do? Sheridan steps down, as per the deal he made with the new Earth president - but then he has a delegation of aliens with him who wish to make a speech on the occasion. Why? This was an Earth conflict, a civil war, a conflict where John had tried to keep aliens out as much as possible because of the bad optics. And from Earth's perspective, they would have no interest in alien input anyway. So aliens are giving a victory speech now? Maybe Clark was right after all 🤔 Worse still, when Delenn speaks, there's a power demonstration with a huge Ranger fleet of White Stars doing a fly-by, as she talks about the new alliance that she invites Earth to join. Oh god. How is this going to look? "Oh, the fleet is completely neutral, honest, and will be used for your protection - if you join. No, even if you join you will not get any White Star ships, they will not be under your command at all - but they're completely neutral, honest to god. And as you see, you certainly don't want to be on the _wrong_ side of this fleet." From Earth's perspective, this must have seemed as a threat and an ultimatum. Those who wished to court martial Sheridan would be proven right: "See, now we are completely vulnerable and defenceless to alien forces, and they are taking advantage of it". And those who had sided with Clark were likewise vindicated: "See, that's what we've been warning against all along!" Now, none of this is unrealistic. But JMS clearly wants us to think of Delenn as benevolent and wise; that this new alliance, that's the side of the _good_ guys. But in point of fact this is a protection racket at best, and an overture to a hostile takeover at worst.
The white stars took the group by surprise, how did they all gather for this fly by and not get detected???? They were already at earth for its liberation post battle, but how???? Was earth force just missed it???? Kinda hard to miss 50+ ships in formation approaching your most important government building on earth and not detect it, even if they are friendly...
Earthforce couldn't detect Minbari vessels, and the White Stars are Vorlon+Minbari tech. They CAN'T detect them until they are close enough to be seen with the naked eye...
@@toatahu2003 And white star are pretty small ships if you think of the battles where some white stars suicided by flying in the hangar bays of omegas.
Also they opened there hyperspace exits rightvinsightvearth atmosphere, so where fo you want a detection network to be placed? If in hyperspace e, well I think Prior battles against Clarks Earth force weakened or even destroyed it and this accuracy of jumping right into the atmosphere in Formation, would have even impressed a group of warrior caste minbari captains.
Looking back on this it looks like a group of aliens have formed an alliance and invaded earth, threatening them into signing a treaty with a fleet of warships circling above. Pretty sketchy xD
It's a callback to the misunderstanding that started the Earth-Minbari war. The Minbari show peaceful intent by showing their guns as silent. Delenn is showing Earth that the Interstellar Alliance's guns are silent.
Actually during incident that started the Earth/Minbari war, it was the Warrior caste's way to approach unknown ships with their gun ports open (they can see their weapons as can the others). But the White Stars were under the control of both the Rangers and the Religious caste, who do not share that same tactic of the warrior caste.
Earth is already controlled by the Rothschild, just look it up on google they don't even care we know as they can think on bigger scales. Like the first one's we are mere Ants to the Rothschilds. The U.N is just one of their many tools to enforce the coming new world order. The NWO will become a oppressive system, it will be either comply or die. One prime example is the international refugee crisis is funded/promoted by them to destroy the western world (society) and create a new society in which they control all. Don't believe me just look on YT and read up about them.
@OriginalTharios it is factually and logical and completely relevant to this post, it's not my fault that you're oblivious to the truth. Insanity/stupidity is going around you're daily life, and believing that one world order is actually a good thing.
@OriginalTharios also you think I am the insane one look up this video and explain why the previous U.S administration would do this, and why U.N done and said nothing about this evil act. ua-cam.com/video/K1GK9KhooTY/v-deo.html all this is true and was done to protect the petrol dollar. If you still think I am insane, then you are beyond hope!
Delenn is the women every man dreams of. Beautiful, kind, intelligent, but when she encounters a giant spider in the house, she squeezes the life out of it. :D
Hmmm, does this not sound like the same ultimatum the Persians gave the Spartans. "Give us your best people so that we can plus up our military forces and we will not crush you. Do this as a sign of your submission." Hey delenn, if that were true then there wouldn't have been a human civil war. A war in which you were a part of.
Always hated this speech, it goes against everything the show was about. Join our alliance or else, straight out of President Clark's playbook. The White Star Destroyer wasn't even that good a ship and is shown to be weak against most cruisers available at the time
it was more join our alliance or be left behind, technologically and economically. President Clark had already isolated Earth the moment he stepped into office. So the Invitation was given to the earth to join the rest of the worlds who did join them alliance or be left in its isolated state. Yes, the earth had just been beaten militarily and pushed into a corner, but they didn't lose their entire military force either like the Narns did. The White Star was never really a destroyer class ship, probably why they could mass produce them as many as they did, but even in season 5, they mentioned how they were running out of them, to begin with. The Excaliber that followed was designed as a destroyer.
@@robertbusek30 I wouldn't say bluffing, they already had shown the combined forces of the alliance which did include Earth ships was able to beat Earth force. They didn't outright destroy them as Clarks forces were doing they disabled them so they could be bypassed. Capture the ships to be used later instead of destroying the resource, saving Earth's military as a whole to be used later. Which would come in handy when the Drakh showed up. Delenn's Message about the Rangers to earth's military pretty much was like hey This is our police force and every member in the alliance recognizes the rangers and their strength and authority which is above all local authorities. IF you join us you will need to do so as well.
This entire political move was so well planned and executed.
First, credit humans with inspiring the alliance. Then, describe the benefits. Thirdly, terrify with a fleet of super advanced ships. After that calm everyone down and while they are still shocked make Sheridan president of the alliance
There were a big problem though: For few years Clark's regime had been warning about hostile aliens. Then after a massive orbital battle regular people see vast fleet of alien ships flying over them. This would have caused insane amount of panic among regular people. There would have been a lot of property damage and deaths. I mean in the previous episode Clark intended to use advanced Omega destroyer fleet to wipe out every defected Earth Alliance ship..to convince people that it's just aliens causing trouble.
I would have used a lot of Thunderbolt-fighters in this formation. That way people would have realized the human involvement and it would have been even greater show of force.
Sounds suspiciously like the hagellian dialectic, yes sorry my cynicism is showing.
Of course, being being a wussy or an appeaser gets you nothing but pain and suffering. History has proven that.
I need to see that scene where they announce Sheridan as the president of the Alliance. Whichever party took over after Clark didn't like Sheridan; they wanted him as a hero to take over Babylon 5, but didn't like what he stood for after that.
@@sandal_thong8631 I know I can't find it on youtube...any idea what season episode this is?
Well said, beautiful lady.
Rest in peace now, somewhere beyond the Rim...
💖
Great moment in this epic series. R.I.P Delenn. You are now free among the stars.
I can see Delenn has been reading some old earth history. She certainly knows how to "speak softly and carry a big( or in this case, loud) stick"
Teddy wasn't much of a space cowboy.
TR would have liked Delenn...
I've always loved this scene. Ominous music and show of force included. The ISA is what the UN here in the real world should be. Any organization dedicated to creating peace should be prepared to fight to create it and preserve it.
"If you want peace, prepare for war".......... true words never spoken.
Even Delen and Sheridan find this out in Season 5. And how badly it backfired when they had to support an ISA attack on Centauri, which played right into the Drakh's hands.
It's sad that to remain independent and impartial requires military might, otherwise risk being overtaken or forced to take a side by the powerful of the time.
The thing that on reflection I forsee a problem is that while the Rangers currently have the most advanced fleet they can not improve over time. Over time races will discover new tech or rediscover lost tech from the old ones which will outclass what the Rangers are using. What do they do when that point nears? Do the Rangers resort to terrorist tactics to maintain their advantages? Who builds the ships as well? Does the new Alliance foot the bill for the Rangers, their training, housing and everything else a merc company requires to function? If so does that mean they will create a tax for all member races now? You see how the fantasy becomes a nightmare?
@aF Kayzar I got the impression the Alliance pays for it through a tax. It's the price for being part of the Alliance.
She specifically said the alliance would not enforce the peace so they would not fight to preserve it or get involved between neighbours other than with information.
And Delen and Sheridan did not support the attack on Centauri Prime. They said they would if the rest of the alliance thought it was necessary but the alliance pulled the attack off without telling them and Sheridan was pissed about it. They were finding out about the shadow tech that was used in Centauri ships at that point and would never have agreed to it.
I love the shot of the EarthForce officers right after she says "It is their goal to CREATE the peace... not enforce the peace."
Delenn was the perfect example of a strong but not infallible woman..
Who wouldn't marry her 😊
I met and interviewed the actress at an industry event; oh, those eyes, so green, piercing...
me
I wouldn't. Her husband would kill me. XP
Me I'd get down on one knee
@@DEMETRIUSblaze
👍
The announcement of the Rangers.
Not only does it make you proud to be human, it makes you proud to be a human that is part of something greater!
This takes me back to my childhood years when I see this. I miss Babylon 5.
I watched this show for years, and I just realized the White Stars have their own "scream" just like the Shadow ships.
But their "scream" is more pleasant on the ears.
Think the got it from XH558
ua-cam.com/video/xJlsDiC9TBI/v-deo.html
Of course. The White Stars are based off Vorlon technology, and like Vorlon and Shadow vessels they're based on living organic technology.
@@patrickstivers7387 I don't think the telepaths think so.
I don't remember telepaths having an issue with being on or around the White Stars. The only one who did was Anna and we all know why.
Making a fleet of the most advanced ships fly over the conference in Earth air space is a power move and a half
It's a show of strength which is always needed when dealing with a major power, since Nations respect strength above all else
A White Star is actually roughly the same length as a Donnager class from The Expanse, so imagine dozens of Donnagers flying through the atmosphere.
Amos and Alex looking out the window: HOLY SHIT! Holden: How's their coffee?
Funny thought really.
The donny surely has the drive power to basically brute force an ascend.... it would probably also torch the next few miles of the planet.
Has anyone else noted that despite the giant leaps in technology, they still have those uncomfortable plastic chairs?
that's realistic progression.
And still have those uncomfortable bunks on ships despite now having artificial gravity technology .and better materials
That's bureaucracy
Maybe that's the zenith of chairs? I'd hope not, but I've been wrong before.
@@elizabethjansen2684 It's pragmatism. Technology is overutilized as it is. And we see the negative impact everywhere. But then the only other position of most people seems to be ban all technology, which is equally ridiculous. Right tool for the right job. Nothing more, nothing less. Using antigravity for a bed or something, would be like using a nuke where one of those little snap-popper fireworks would suffice...or using the oar of an ancient greek warship to eat a bowl of cereal.
Look at Sheridan... he is looking like yes that is why i married this woman.
Who wouldn't?
Except she's not a woman.
Actually he's thinking "that's not even the best part...wait until you ass hats find out who the top dog of the ISA is... bitches"...
@@Hiraghm She's both human and minbari. She's female.
Message from Delenn is simple" get in line and cut the nonsense of conquest."
whitestars are hands down the COOLEST ships in all of scifi
I dunno....I have a little model of the Normandy SR-2 sitting in my room.
SR-2 Normandy, Ebon Hawk, Millennium Falcon want a word.
1:38 Look at Londo. Is it just me or is he getting a very unpleasant flashback of the day he looked up... and saw the Shadow fleet flying in the skies of Centauri Prime?
Very possibly.
Klaatu's speech from the end of "The Day the Earth Stood Still" (the original) would have fit perfectly in this scene. Love B-5!!
It's all NWO programming crap, and you fell for it twice.
I remember this speech, super powerful. This is what the UN should have been. Information and building, not enforcement
You apparently missed the huge fleet of whitestars which are the other shoe should tbe kimba ya shoe fail.
The UN was always marred by 2 things:
Veto powers, held by exactly tbe same people who basically start half the shitfires on the planet.
Total Lack of military power.
Honestly if governments did what they're supposed to we wouldn't need the UN.
The UN never could do this. They are run by men, prideful, arrogant, cowardly men.
I love the flyby - making her point so that no one mistakes it.
I would have loved it if the scene had been set up to have Sheridan behind her as the fleet flew over, with the Earthforce generals in front of her.
I love how giddy Sheridan is when the Whitestars fly over.
They are definitely one of the most deadly warships in science fiction.
“Could I love her more.”
B5 was and still beyond what we ever thought great deep show
The music was so ominous that you'd almost think that the Alliance wasn't the good guys. For real the musical cues made it sound like Delenn was saying something sinister or that as soon as she was done speaking something bad was gonna happen. Just a funny choice of music there.
But in the time-jump episode at the end of season 4, you see that the alliance and rangers don't give up on earth, even after earth has given up on them and almost destroyed itself in world war x.
Yup ! Spot on observation, Meta.
i'll go as far as saying it's one of the worst musical miss uses i ever heard in a sci fi show. It took me out of the moment a lil bit.
This is the White Star fleet, requesting flyby, over.
Bookwyrm Hang on to your coffee mug!
Whitestar requesting to buzz the tower...
"Negative, Ghost Rider. The pattern is full."
Gosh, I miss this show....
The Ranger fly-over reminds me of the Allied fly-over over Tokyo on September 2, 1945 when the Japanese signed 'the instrument of surrender. Wondering out loud if this historical fact provided the inspiration for Straczynski to do the same.
It really fits.
Could be wrong, but first ever use of the shaky hand-held camera jump-zoom effect in CGI? (Much used in Firefly, BSG etc...)
Just loving it look at those faces of the human generals.
I'm amazed the Earth Alliance Military were not shitting kittens when the White Star Fleet flew overhead.
They were too busy peeing their trousers.
Especially given they had no idea they were there until the fly over...
it was a brown trouser alert moment.
"General" What's the meaning of this who was manning Earth's defence grid
"Captain" Lt. Smith sir
"General" Lt. Smith, where did those ships come from
"Lt. Smith" Sir, they just jumped out of Hyperspace and just as quickly jumped back in
"General" Captain, I want Pvt. Smith manning a weather station on Pluto by the end of the day, just mail him his clothes
@@dragonson72 Conveniently Earth's defensive grid was just recently destroyed by the fleet in which these whitestars were included.
Wait, so the White Star ships arrived there unannounced?
Just imagine some human commander mistaking that for an invasion or a raid or something and opening fire right there and then. If you come in peace with a surprise warfleet, you might want to avoid misundestandings.
That was always one thing I found a bit risky. Earthdome must be one of the heaviest defended places on Earth.
@@JH24821 she showed that she means business, and that the Vorlon tech allows the White Stars to be almost invisible to sensors.
@@SantomPh That wouldn't have helped.
Had I been a commander on the ground I would have scrambled everything to intecept immediately and began firing whatever weapons I could sceaming at those ships to indetify themselves and power down immeditly as they are violating earth space and a intersteller confrance.
Rangers got to flex their fleet.
“I wish you would….. Go ahead test us!!!”
Whitestar is still one of the best design ship in SciFi.
Just to break this down, G'Kar announces the new alliance and then Delenn goes on to introduce the Rangers and has them fly over the Earth government to prove her point about how powerful they are. She is talking about "peace," but the fly over just demonstrates that they will kick your ass if you try to attack them. Basically it is her saying "Look puny Earthlings our ships are more powerful than anything you have and we can fly them over your seat of government any time we want."
+Kevin Bolton If an Alliance can't project force, it cannot protect its people.
+hagamapama there's projecting force and there's plain intimidation. They could have just mentioned the White Stars, but to have them flyover the Earth parliament just seems overkill.
+Kevin Bolton It's making a Point. Without it some guy would look the other. "What's a whitestar?"
Kevin Bolton No. Projecting force and intimidation are close enough to the same thing that a distinction is not significant. If you're doing it right, anyone considering opposing you is intimidated.
+hagamapama look at where they are though. They are over the parliament. What would Americans think if a new alliance flew over The Capitol or the British if they flew over the Houses of Parliament? They could have made a reference to them and the role they played in the Shadow and Earth Civil Wars and just flown a few over.
The hunter "Take life without giving back" The Farmer " Recycle in an infinite cycle of life and death" Meanwhile The Gardener "expand life and creation itself into a more diversified form like a spiraling vortex expanding outward toward infinity and sustainability "
So many odd people in the comments listening to "You may decline if you wish. We will leave in peace and honor your decision" and somehow hearing "join us or die".
Unfortunately she has passed mira furlan today I would recommend watching this at 0:55 because there is a whitestar pass over
Yes From the stars we came to the stars we shall return.
We now comment the bodies to the deep.
@@thedarkprinceVvvvV nice quote from ceremonies of light and darkness the episode after servered dreams even in that episode mira furlan does one of the best quotes .
This is Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari. Babylon 5 is under our protection. Withdraw, .. or be destroyed." [in the White Star!]
"Negative. We have authority here. Do not force us to engage your ship."
"Why not? Only one human captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me. You are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.
@@alternativefashiongothicga7 Very true, this series is one of my favorites ive been sharing it with friends who have never seen it since it came out before they were around.
@@thedarkprinceVvvvV true but there is episodes like into the shadow of a z ha dum and zh ha dum where you see the icarus go to that planet and you here kosh say z ha dum and then the camera pans towards a dark cave then in that cave the most evil and horror alien in the Babylon 5 franchise a shadow alien that has 3 eyes on top and 4 on the bottom and one of the most strange insect sounds it puts a shiver when I see it I prefer them getting shot by PPG fire by Sheridan and londo guards .
Do you see what I mean plus they have claws so that's how they must fight like Sheridan was injured in a z ha dum . Before kosh said jump jump now .
Even Species8472 put a shiver in my body too from star trek voyager
@@alternativefashiongothicga7 yes I remember that, the shadows definitely had their own creepy scary vibe about them. especially the scream their vessels made when they went by or just the way they modified people in general.
They then named Sheridan, the man to be punished by Earthforce for everything, President as a way of saying: "Yeah a lot of stuff happened beyond your little blue sphere."
This is very reminiscent of the formation of the UN. A shocked and war weary populace willing to embrace radical ideas to prevent another war.
Not really as the UN doesn't have the teeth
I hope they never try to do a reboot of this series. Maybe improve the CGI. But nothing else. There is nothing else they can do to improve it. They certainly can't out do it.
Unfortunately they announced a reboot:(
@@Kenneth2413 That JMS is running. Though my skepticism could form a jump gate alone.
The music that plays when the Whitestars fly past Earthdome always make me a little unnerved. It just feels a tiny bit wrong, because it has sort of an intimidating tone and it always made me think of a show of force by an authoritarian power.
Yes, but at the time, I also felt that it was necessary to show that the rangers are a serious obstacle to any kind of "oh yeah, let's just take the benefits and ignore the rules" ambition.
I think that's at least part of the point.
Also, how she describes the Rangers... They are more like a spy agency which can fight than a military: space CIA or Mossad.
However, they aren't authoritarian. The Rangers are independent. Each world in the alliance is independent and sovereign in all but how they deal with other worlds. Not sure that sort of structure could last long-term, but I'm not sure any political structure can.
We are here.
I love this scene, and am a huge B5 fan. I know I will be in the minority here, but I have always been bothered by the White Star fly-over. Earth had just come out of a devastating and divisive civil war where many from the losing side were still at large. Sending the White Stars over the heart of the Earth Alliance government unannounced could easily have been seen as provocative, and undermined the Alliance offer for Earth to join.
I agree 100%. This was actually a BAD move by the ISA. You want a strong, but semi-defeated, power to join you? So you unexpectedly bring in a fleet of warships to intimidate them? What choice did they have?
It's sad how inspiring the speech is only to know that humans fuck it up in a couple of hundred years for no real reasons...
Probably because it's not at all inspiring. Because it's political gobbledygook. A series of platitudes that have no basis in reality, let alone history.
You can't rewrite history . This is Babylon 5.
We get it.
You want peace.
Straight through Earth gov's defence network...
Blown up due to Clark's sociopathic ending
As much i loved this scene. It was a pretty aggressive move and could easily been seen as a thread.
Pretty sure that it was meant as a threat. The Interstellar Alliance may have been a peaceful organization. But they were not defenseless and powerless. The White Stars alone were feared by just about everyone.
So, join us or else ...
@ Cassandra Stjarna I don't think it was meant as a threat, more to show that if Earth would join the ISA they would have a strong partner/ally and be part of an Alliance who can also defend its member worlds from outside threats. Delenn said that Humans and Minbari were part of the Rangers, which already is reassuring for Earth.
Delenn says " Earth Alliance. Resistance is Futile. We will add your biological and technological distinctive to our own".
I think Delenn had to be firm with the Earth Alliance, after the crap Clark had just pulled.
Among my people they are called the An’lashok...
Among your people..they are called the rangers..
President Clark has a clone...like Palpatine
awesome!
Helluva a lot of White Stars. But, it is called ' power projection ' .
Why am i getting vibes of finland forming OSCE From this speech.
Basically, Earth was given a choice: join the Alliance or get left behind the rest of the galaxy and become Mississippi.
No, Earth was given a choice: Join the Alliance or become western civilization surrounded by a parasitic 3rd world.
Found the Clark sympathizer.
Wrong Babylon 5 is a globalist propaganda wank fest like Star Trek. You are no different than the Trekkie cult in their irrational devotion to these series that spit in your face. Babylon 5 and Star Trek teach to accept being a second class citizen and give up everything for the sake of the one world order aka the New World Order aka one world government aka globalism.
No one stands alone. Nietzsche was a fool, and Ayn Rand was a sociopath.
california*
That female Presidents look as if she is getting ready to run for your life. LOL
NATO.... never watched this.
Actually that is the UN and European Union both are attempts to take the right to self determination and sovereignty only in this show's case it's entire planets and civilizations and not just individual nations. Pretty much it is the cancer that is globalism or continental unions just in space.
Yea, you don't understand the ISA of Babylon 5...
The ISA respected each Nations rights, such as electing their own leaders, as long as they kept to the ideals of the ISA
So basically, you'd favor a situation were states would fight it out roughly once every generation with millions dead and great potential lost, is that it?
Thanks, but me as an European would prefer to get rid of those petty nation states then fight and die for the insanity of a "chosen" few
@@kamenridernephilim UN is impotent, castrated, worthless, stronger countries can always invade weak ones under "humanitarian" clause even if it violates sovereignty of another nation, and is expressly forbidden by UN charter, and yet UN regularly ignores this if U.S. , Germany, France, England are the ones doing it.
Globalism always existed, nationalism is a recent thing really, we can argue of which shade of grey is the darkest one but it's pointless.
No no it's the corporations that are the problem, large multinational corporations, but just banning them won't solve anything, nor that you would be able to, U.S. itself is bought, and paid for by these large conglomerates, why would they want to change they have no incentive, i say they should get some, form a tax on accumulated wealth and tax 1% heavy, use that money to pay rest of the people fixed addition to their salaries, and expect standards to triple in quality.
That was a terrible idea to fly that fleet overhead. That would have and should have lead to an outright shoot out and battle right there. Not to mention that would have terrfied people on earth.
I assume the higher-up authorities were asked for permission in advance to allow this fly-over at this moment otherwise I entirely agree this would be a very dangerous move.
@@JH24821 Judging by their look of shock and Suprise... I would guess not,
The greatest written show. Imagine a reboot!
You can recreate the visuals, update the CGI...but...it will be hollow. G`Kar, Londo, Vir and all the others can`t be recreated. They where giants walking amongst the stars
The way they've been ruining series? No! They completely ruined Dune. Rented the first one out of sequence things not even implied in the books ,Or the other films. Characters changed and warped.
@@elizabethjansen2684 yes all reboots sucks except Dune. I loved dune.
@@TheKingTywinLannister I have to say I rented the newest dune movie and it was beyond awful. Out of sequence events is only the beginning but I've read the books more than a few times.
whats funny is the fact i have a video labeled retirement has part of that scene in it.
"Vimāna are mythological flying palaces or chariots described in Hindu texts"
That show of force in the middle of the earth capital, delenn really did not research earth history properly. Humans tend to don't react to such threats well. Still they were lucky, maybe humans were done fighting after the civil war.
... and we have a Vorlon planet killer hidden in a secret subspace location. It is your choice, chose wisely.
I love that scene, but I keep wondering how jms can reboot B5 without Sinclair, G’Kar,, Delenn, Vir, and Zathras.
And Zach, and Garibaldi, and Franklin.
Well they did destroy the station so it could be doable with other characters.
It might be doable if you have it set during the Dilgar War, or from the perspective of an Omega class Destroyer.
Like League of Nations in the UN now you in troops are almost everywhere
Love the White Stars just the sound the make takes me back to watching the show
Kate Ground I have the entire DVD set for the entire five years series I watched it numerous times it never gets old
This was the Episode when B5 actualy did achive its goal : To promote peace throughout earth and their allies. And with the Whitestar Fleet and the Rangers protecting said peace (Victory proves without a doubt that they can (RIP Excalibur thou, fine ship with fine commander went down to give the Victory the shot needed).
Also... What Delen said is wrong. "Not on military force" yeaaaaa... shuuuure... Thats why you basicaly INVENT the White Star Destroyers, because it is not needed through military power.
Why did Delenn mention the First Ones? Thanks to Clark's regime, the people of Earth wouldn't have any idea who the First Ones are as they didn't even know about the Shadow War.
Imagine alternative ending where whitestar fleet opens fire and bombs the building to the ground
A fleet of 50 alien ships does a flyover of Earth without its military or government knowing beforehand or detecting them arrive.
There was at least 1000 white star in the fly over.
Those chairs though....
We got this show in 1994. So well written it’s scary. Now all we get is woke crap that has no heart. We are regressing as a society.
What is the name of this episode????
I have no idea why JMS thought this was a good idea. Earth was just coming out of a civil war, where many even among the victors felt Sheridan's way was hasty - that the outright war left them weak and vulnerable to aliens. The losing side believed Sheridan was under the influence of aliens, in particular Delenn. So what do they do? Sheridan steps down, as per the deal he made with the new Earth president - but then he has a delegation of aliens with him who wish to make a speech on the occasion. Why? This was an Earth conflict, a civil war, a conflict where John had tried to keep aliens out as much as possible because of the bad optics. And from Earth's perspective, they would have no interest in alien input anyway. So aliens are giving a victory speech now? Maybe Clark was right after all 🤔
Worse still, when Delenn speaks, there's a power demonstration with a huge Ranger fleet of White Stars doing a fly-by, as she talks about the new alliance that she invites Earth to join. Oh god. How is this going to look? "Oh, the fleet is completely neutral, honest, and will be used for your protection - if you join. No, even if you join you will not get any White Star ships, they will not be under your command at all - but they're completely neutral, honest to god. And as you see, you certainly don't want to be on the _wrong_ side of this fleet." From Earth's perspective, this must have seemed as a threat and an ultimatum. Those who wished to court martial Sheridan would be proven right: "See, now we are completely vulnerable and defenceless to alien forces, and they are taking advantage of it". And those who had sided with Clark were likewise vindicated: "See, that's what we've been warning against all along!"
Now, none of this is unrealistic. But JMS clearly wants us to think of Delenn as benevolent and wise; that this new alliance, that's the side of the _good_ guys. But in point of fact this is a protection racket at best, and an overture to a hostile takeover at worst.
Garibaldi was right
💖👏
Flying warships over Earth like that would be one of the dumbest things the ISA could do...
Listen carefully
no one who watches the skies for a living gave them a heads up for this shit -cinemasins
From Delenn's lips to God's ears.
Susan is death incarnate. Wouldn't need the Rangers' fleet of ships 😂
Sounds quite similar to the United Federation of Planets or The Commonwealth of Nations
If this was the EU they'd charge a big fee to the rich planets an exploit the poor planets.
The white stars took the group by surprise, how did they all gather for this fly by and not get detected???? They were already at earth for its liberation post battle, but how???? Was earth force just missed it???? Kinda hard to miss 50+ ships in formation approaching your most important government building on earth and not detect it, even if they are friendly...
Earthforce couldn't detect Minbari vessels, and the White Stars are Vorlon+Minbari tech. They CAN'T detect them until they are close enough to be seen with the naked eye...
@@toatahu2003 And white star are pretty small ships if you think of the battles where some white stars suicided by flying in the hangar bays of omegas.
Also they opened there hyperspace exits rightvinsightvearth atmosphere, so where fo you want a detection network to be placed?
If in hyperspace e, well I think Prior battles against Clarks Earth force weakened or even destroyed it and this accuracy of jumping right into the atmosphere in Formation, would have even impressed a group of warrior caste minbari captains.
1:58-2:22 isnt that a bit of a contradiction
It does seam like what Clark was saying came true. Just saying
😍
This is how you flex.
Looking back on this it looks like a group of aliens have formed an alliance and invaded earth, threatening them into signing a treaty with a fleet of warships circling above. Pretty sketchy xD
It's a callback to the misunderstanding that started the Earth-Minbari war. The Minbari show peaceful intent by showing their guns as silent. Delenn is showing Earth that the Interstellar Alliance's guns are silent.
Actually during incident that started the Earth/Minbari war, it was the Warrior caste's way to approach unknown ships with their gun ports open (they can see their weapons as can the others).
But the White Stars were under the control of both the Rangers and the Religious caste, who do not share that same tactic of the warrior caste.
@@ApolloXL5 it is the traditional Minbari greeting regardless of caste.
There's a story in there about someone resenting the minbari and hunting the rangers down for her spectacle.
The alliance good idea shame we can’t grow up and do it now
Another problem, in the real world: a force that strong can easily become itself an oppressor. Might only makes right while right wields might.
Earth is already controlled by the Rothschild, just look it up on google they don't even care we know as they can think on bigger scales. Like the first one's we are mere Ants to the Rothschilds. The U.N is just one of their many tools to enforce the coming new world order. The NWO will become a oppressive system, it will be either comply or die. One prime example is the international refugee crisis is funded/promoted by them to destroy the western world (society) and create a new society in which they control all.
Don't believe me just look on YT and read up about them.
@OriginalTharios it is factually and logical and completely relevant to this post, it's not my fault that you're oblivious to the truth.
Insanity/stupidity is going around you're daily life, and believing that one world order is actually a good thing.
@OriginalTharios also you think I am the insane one look up this video and explain why the previous U.S administration would do this, and why U.N done and said nothing about this evil act. ua-cam.com/video/K1GK9KhooTY/v-deo.html all this is true and was done to protect the petrol dollar. If you still think I am insane, then you are beyond hope!
Delenn is the women every man dreams of.
Beautiful, kind, intelligent, but when she encounters a giant spider in the house,
she squeezes the life out of it.
:D
I prefer Susan. She sees a spider, it sees her, and drops dead on the spot.😂
Gimme Lyta. She'll just look at the spider....
"Yes, Mistress." And goes to kill the other spiders in the house.
Hmmm, does this not sound like the same ultimatum the Persians gave the Spartans. "Give us your best people so that we can plus up our military forces and we will not crush you. Do this as a sign of your submission." Hey delenn, if that were true then there wouldn't have been a human civil war. A war in which you were a part of.
Is it me or did the music get needlessly ominous?
1:09 uh oh ...
Disney Star Wars wishes it was half the show B5 was.
What about a false flag effort to blame another so that the alliance can destroy your enemy?
Sh!t - they're even worse/more interfering than the Vorlons.....
So join us or die. I'd rather die.
humans value mutual cooperation and respect.
The creation of the An'la Shok (Rangers)!
The Rangers had existed since the first Shadow War.
Robert A. Heinlein... "Solution Unsatisfactory".
I dunno. If I was a regular Joe watching tis, it'd look like an invasion and an ultimatum to me. Not the best foot to start on.
Always hated this speech, it goes against everything the show was about. Join our alliance or else, straight out of President Clark's playbook. The White Star Destroyer wasn't even that good a ship and is shown to be weak against most cruisers available at the time
it was more join our alliance or be left behind, technologically and economically. President Clark had already isolated Earth the moment he stepped into office. So the Invitation was given to the earth to join the rest of the worlds who did join them alliance or be left in its isolated state. Yes, the earth had just been beaten militarily and pushed into a corner, but they didn't lose their entire military force either like the Narns did.
The White Star was never really a destroyer class ship, probably why they could mass produce them as many as they did, but even in season 5, they mentioned how they were running out of them, to begin with. The Excaliber that followed was designed as a destroyer.
@@thedarkprinceVvvvV - So in a way, Delenn is bluffing Earth here.
@@robertbusek30 I wouldn't say bluffing, they already had shown the combined forces of the alliance which did include Earth ships was able to beat Earth force. They didn't outright destroy them as Clarks forces were doing they disabled them so they could be bypassed. Capture the ships to be used later instead of destroying the resource, saving Earth's military as a whole to be used later. Which would come in handy when the Drakh showed up.
Delenn's Message about the Rangers to earth's military pretty much was like hey This is our police force and every member in the alliance recognizes the rangers and their strength and authority which is above all local authorities. IF you join us you will need to do so as well.