Linear Workflow: Gamma 2.2 Setup in 3ds max and Vray, Working with Correct math!
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- Опубліковано 6 гру 2014
- Watch this step by step Practical Video Tutorial that shows you how to work with correct math inside 3ds max and vray in order to get realistic 3d renderings.
This is follow up to Understanding Linear Workflow - Working In Floating Point in which you learned the value of this process and how it works.
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Hey thanks so much, I've been trying to wrap my head around linear non linear workflows for a long time and this is the first tutorial video I've seen that made it really easy and straight forward to grasp the basics. great examples and my renders are already looking a lot better so thanks a million.
Happy to hear that! best regards, Anakin!
Love your tutorials. Straight to the point and no unnecessary bla blas. Thanks.
Excellent tutorial. Tinkering with gamma has always been my one true nightmare. This totally summed it up. The only thing you left out was how to match Vray camera exposure with the perspective exposure. Standard Vray camera settings are
f-number - 8
shutter speed - 200
ISO - 100
vignetting - Enabled (1.0)
white balance - D65
This gives you a much darker image then the perspective view.
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To match your Vray camera with the perspective exposure, use settings
F-number - 8
shutter speed - 15.5
ISO - 250.
vignetting - Disabled
white balance - Neutral
Of coarse all these settings may vary depending on your project, but to match the neutral base settings of your Vray camera according to this tutorial, this is what you want. :)
Thanks again, dude!
Your welcome Lenny, glad it helped!
great points on the camera, i usually use a Vray physical Camera.
for the settings, as you said it depends on what light situation " Interior, Exterior" and what lighting technique " Vray light, Vray sun, HDRI Dome etc ...".
again if you have full float data, you can always change those settings in post, white balance etc..
all the best,
Ismail
First of all: Amazing video! :^)
So.. I'm probably watching this video for the 3rd time or so. It really took me some time and experimenting on my own to truly understand everything.
After doing some comparisons of several settings, I came to the conclusion that the linear workflow is *not usable for my editing and color grading workflow in Photoshop*. As shown in the video, a lot of editing tools are not available in 32bpc mode. LUTs work in 32bpc, but the result is way to extreme and are meant to be used in a non-linear color space.
Well, the actual reason why I'd like to have 32bpc is to have a lot of room to fix (like you would do in photography). But in CG the image is in most cases already perfect (in terms of composition, overall exposure, etc.). So, I really don't need 32bpc. It's not like a photo that I accidentally shot underexposed and have to push the exposure +3 or something.
16bpc is enough for me. The best settings for me are currently *"Linear Multiply" and "Linear exposure control"*. Exponential HSV is too saturated, Exponential is too flat, Logarithmic exposure control is pretty much like LOG video footage. All of them require tweaking and adjusting to make it look natural first so that you can start color grading etc.
My settings, "Linear Multiply" and "Linear exposure control", just solves the issue of overexposed areas and clamps it very smoothly without changing the whole image.
This means, that it really depends on what you're trying to to with your render. If you want to make important changes in post e.g. change the intensity/color of lights, reflections, etc. (for previz) then you should use multipass compositing in 32bpc. What I'm trying to say is that people who work with real life footage (video, film) already waste too much time with color correction. In CG we should avoid that as much as possible to have more time to focus on the actual creative part :^)
THANKS BRO even ur tutorial is 6.5 years and ur speech sometimes not on point but this is difenetly very good explanation on how this things work! i was realy trying to find myself what is linear workflow but u did the most)
Great tutorial! Thank you for this. I would like to mention that in my case, the image in AE looked darker after checking Linearize Working Space in Project Settings. I had to go to the View tab and make sure that "Use Display Color Management" was checked, so that the linearized working profile colors are actually converted to my display profile. Just posting this here in case somebody else had the same issue.
Very well explained. Thank you
The best Tutorial i ever seen!
No words!!! Just the best!
Thanks a lot!
Your welcome!
thanks for your kind words!
all the best,
Ismail
Fantastic video!
An awesome tutorial, indeed. Thanks! :) :) :)
awsm info bro..thankqqq so much....
Thanks so much :D
Congratulations, complete explanation!
Your very Welcome, João!
Great explanations, many thanks !!!
Your Welcome Philippe!
Very nice video, witch made me want to install my 3Ds Max back on my laptop :D thx keep them coming.
thanks! stay tuned for more videos like this ;)
-Ismail
It's very helpful
Thank you so much
Your Welcome, Samuel!
thanks brother for amazing video
Your Welcome!
Cool! Great and complete explanation.
Thanks STROB, glad you find it useful!
Love your Iron Baby Animation!
-Ismail
CGalter Thanks I appreciate!
you are a beast! thx
Thank You Very much for the amazing tutorial, but i have a problem with Magic bullet pluginn when working on linear space.
I rendered a 32 bit open exr sequence in 3ds max and when editing in after effects, in the main window it looks fine but when editing using magic bullet looks the gamma is way off, image looks darker. Can you please help me on this.
Thank you it was great explanation ~
Your Welcome Bayan.
tnx a lot.. it helps me in many ways....
You're, Welcome.
hi Ismail once again useful video ,thanks for that , here i have a small doubt ,hdri multiplier you said its 1 , but in exterior night scene im using viz ppl v1 night hdris , if im using 1 multiplier its so dark , so how much i can increase it ,please advice
hey buddy... i just need to know if we can work with both the version of vray 2.4.0003 & 3.00? which is the one you using in this tut. Btw great job .
Very helpful and neat tutorial. Thank you. Is the gamma settings are same for 3ds max 2015?
your welcome Ali,
and yes, the some approach apply to 2015 version.
best,
Ismail
thanks a lot. but when working in strict linear workflow like you show us in your video, i always have difficulties to adjust materials specially for pure white wall which always burn. of course we can do tone mapping after rendering in compositing but it's difficult to see directly in max if render is good or not! Also when lighting with hdri the highlight problem is more important and i have to always save render image to see in compositing if it's good or not. if you have any advise for this kind of problems it will be nice. best regards, eric.
Thanks for this tutorial this helped me a lot 🙂🙂
if possible can you share your material library by uploading it to Google drive and passing us the link to it?? to that will help a lot 🙂
bravo chef ... m3atel chwiya :D
Thanks Khalid! more to come :)
Hey Ismael :) What if i wanna use reinhard with really low values like 0.1 etc. How i keep the linear workflow? Reinhard gives me this fine control over the burned areas which is very hard to achieve with linear color mapping set to 1.0.
So what works for me till now: i set my export to "color mapping only" (and i get the same rgb pass with my original image) and then i try to composite from the elements. Im like 85% match though with add mode (all are a bit brighter and maybe burn in some areas). With screen im getting a bit closer. Any workarounds for that? cheers bro
How do you battle the issues with the displacement modifier in gamma 2,2?
Ok, just gotta import the displacement map with corrected gamma
Great One. I am activating the VraySpawner on a PC on my network rendering by DR. But one of the machines is Restarting the 3dsMax all the time. Can someone help me?
Thansk Alot Man
Glad it was useful, Ahmed! best regards.
Really great tutorial Ismail! very nice produced BTW
However I still have this question. While testing some renders I don´t want to save in full float and go to photosop to see my renders corrected so, would you then set your color mapping mode to "color mapping and gamma" and uncheck the sRGB button on the VFB? I mean, just for render tests that you actually keep in your folders.
Thanks a lot and keep it up!
Your welcome Julio,
To answer you question, you don't need to change anything, the workflow shown in the video is the some, just when you're about to save you image here is what you should do:
Option 1 - If you want to save a full float then save an exr using the "Vray Raw image file Option", under Frame buffer settings.
Option 2 - If you like to save a jpeg. Or png etc... 8bits images in general, in this case you need to set the output to 2.2, you can do that easily by entering a value of 2.2 in the Override value which is by default 1.
If you need more clarification, don't hesitate to email me.
all the best,
Ismail.
CGalter Yeah! that´s much easier :)
Thanx a lot, everything great. Just waiting for your next tuts!
Little confused, Display gamma 2.2 and max automatically de-gamma while render calculation and final rendering. Do you mean all calculation will be done in linear space if i go with mental ray and vray. is vray color map setting overrides 3ds max calculation if i choose gamma1 or 2.2 in vray? Is 8 and 16 bit image really embed gamma value inside it and 32 bit images embed float intensity value thatwhy they called linear
Hello, how do u composite ur lights? Is it with lightselect pass? and if yes, how u composite that without affecting the overall exposure (i guess u already have a rawlight+dif or just a light pass). thanks
thanks for your question Thanos,
how do u composite ur lights?
yes i normally use the vray light select pass:
01 - If you are using Photoshop > use the blending mode "Linear Dodge Add"
02 - If you are using Nuke, use the operation " Plus " in your Merge Node.
Hope that helps,
----------
I just added a tutorial to the channel that shows the process for Multipass Compositing in Photoshop, check it out. ua-cam.com/video/q0WpIzi8sc4/v-deo.html
and a case study > cgalter.com/multipass-compositing-case-study/
best,
Ismail.
ty mate!
Thanos Kagkalos your welcome
hello guy ! My name is Sam m from Cambodia..i have problem with Weird Light effects on 3d max after rendering . could you help me how to fix it ? Thank in advance .
No matter what I do, my renders always look different in Photoshop...its just not the same as in the VRay frame Buffer or in Nuke.
Stephen Davidson
Hi,
I got you Stephen, it could be very frustrating, it took me months to get used to this process when i first started using it.
I want you to answer a few questions:
1. Which version of 3ds max you're using? ( Very important )
2. Which version of vray you're using?
3. Are you exporting exr through the V-Ray raw image file under the FrameBuffer options. Or, using the 3ds max render output under Common Tab? ( Very important )
4. Can you send screenshots of you're settings? if possible you're scene file, send it to coldframe1(at)gmail.com
best regards,
Ismail
I'd like to add Gamma in Photoshop other than in Max, so, I chose the option "Color Mapping only (no gamma)" under the Vray color mappuing tab. I added 2.2 in gamma.
However, when I render the scene out, the render gets really dark (figures, right? There's no gamma). But my tutor's render gets bright even without gamma. He opens photoshop and his render is bright, whereas, when I open mine, it's really dark. You can barely see anything. Is it normal? Can I add gamma in Photoshop even when the render is really dark this way? I'm going crazy. I add 0.454 in Gamma in Photoshop and the picture gets dark still. Any tip??
after nuke,how to savıng pıcture?Jpeg png other formats?
Heads up: I use this which provides the same functionality that OpenEXR used to fill.
www.exr-io.com/
The photoshop plugin works fine (Tested with PS 2017).
Cheers,
Colin
thanks for sharing Colin Senner :) btw I use Affinity Photo and it supports 32bits fully. even multilayer workflow etc. cheers.
Fantastic! Now, can Adobe just step up their damn game?
Hey guys, Make sure Windows Colour management is not dicking with Photoshop and other image programs.
My rendered scene is still too bright.
I dont get whats wrong ?
Hi Marium,
Can you share more details about your 3d scene, camera used, lighting, maybe settings etc..
in general make sure that you use a Vrayphysicalcamera, if it's bright still then it's the camera settings, change the shutter speed option to a higher number.
hope that helps,
best,
Ismail
hey man, sometimes, when i save the files as png and make gamma correction in photoshop, i get very weird results. so basically, linear workflow simply wont work with any other img format expect the one u showed in the video? the exr format?
Hey, Cliff.
exact. your right, but you can use other file types as well like a TIFF file.
The key here basically is a File format that can hold 32 bit float.
It has a more dynamic range that will allow you to apply adjustments( Math) like Multiply etc.. in a correct way.
Usually, if you use PNG and apply heavy adjustments, you start noticing artifacts. because the math is broken.
hope this helps,
best regards.
Thank you a lot. a finally got my head into it. its simply stunning the amout of control you have over the render elements. and the pro exr is free right now. its so sad photoshop does not allow you to use curve tools and other tools. i need to dowload this plugin you have shown us. thx mate!!!
My man, it looks like the plugin called PhotoLooks simply was discontinued after 2015, so do you have other plugins to share?
Cliff burton Cliff burton
Hey, Cliff,
Speaking of proexr, there is a free recent plugin shared by @colinsenner in the comments bellow, that you can use to extract passes in photoshop called : www.exr-io.com
If you want to be able to use the curves etc..
try : affinity photo. It supports linear workflow fully. It’s very powerful! I use it in my current workflow.
Best regards,
Ismail
Your greatness deserves to be shared! thx man!!!
Fes?
Dude, turn down your background music, speak clearly and get closer to your mic.
Thanks for the Notice, great point!
Your tutorials are in high professional level, but you lost me at the point where you said that i can't use curves and levels to adjust the rendered elements.
To be honest, i can't really see myself having a workflow without those adjustments. I guess it is just me.
I have experimenting over photography and architectural visualization, and those components are the hart of my work.
Having the "Raw" feature on rendering started so exciting, and plumped very hard. The pluggins to do not seem to fit for me.
In any case, i will give a shot to your following tutorials, as i like your style.
But oh man, it seemed too good to be true!
Hey, Helias,
here is why the curves don't work, also an alternative solution:
1 . The curves are not supported because they are not 32bits adjustments, they only work with 16bits and 8bits images. I'm not sure if they will support the 32bit workflow in the future.
But there is a great alternative that I personally started using.
2. Affinity Photo, which has full support to 32bit workflow, It has also advanced tools that you can only find in compositing software like fusion, notably scopes...etc
It opens exr layers automatically, no need for a plugin like photoshop.
I wanted to record a video about this software for weeks but never got the time :)
check it out here > affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/
best regards,
Ismail
that music is too loud, and you speack too fast
Great point, Thanks!