'You're not worthy, I'd have RUINED your love, you'll REGRET LEAVING ME...' Five seconds later 'Um so can we still be evil collegues ... that like, kiss when an evil plan goes off perfectly....?'
Ascended Astarion says a lot of heinous things. But his most chilling line has to be at the beginning: "I can't believe you let me do that. Killing all those people." A part of Astarion knew he was going too far with the ritual. Deep down he expected his partner, his equal, to push back against his worst impulses. Instead, he was driven by his fear until the last traces of him die in this scene.
Exactly. Especially if you have such high approval. He knew deep down that if you had told him that killing all of those people was wrong, he wouldn’t have done it. A part of him wanted to be that better person, and he knew that if anyone could make him that, it would be Tav. That’s why when the game progresses and you’re playing a “goody two shoes” run, he has a conversation with you about how your approaches are too nice, but eventually you being nice no longer loses his approval and he even starts taking on some of those caring traits (like towards children like Yenna)
The 'I can't resist playing the hand I know' line is so sad, because that's a big part of the reason he didn't want to have physical relations for so long. He was scared he could not stop seeing the person he cares for as just another victim. Seems like after the ascensions his mindset switches to 'but that's exactly what you are'. The disapproval when you tell him you just wanted him to feel safe is rough, especially when you know from the Nymph that this is his greatest desire 💀
I think that’s one of the biggest differences between ascended Astarion and spawn Astarion - as ascended he wants to rule over and control everyone (especially you), but as spawn he just wants to learn to live again (and maybe kill/eat a bunch of bad guys along the way). Astarion just fundamentally doesn’t want to be alone, as that as what he felt for 200 years (utter loneliness), so now he has you he wants to hold on, so as ascended he uses control and manipulation to try to force you to stick around, but as spawn he shows you love and care so that you’ll want to stay with him of your own free will.
Hence why I don't understand why girls go puppy eyes for Ascended Astarion. No matter the relationship before, he doesn't love Tav after Ascension. He CAN'T love, he's incapable of love. Infatuation, lust, obsession, yes, but not love. Sorry girls, Ascended Astarion is the BAD ending. It's the ending where he didn't overcome or heal from his trauma, he succumbed to it. It's the worst possible scenario (besides dying). His body is alive, but his soul is dead.
The fact that there’s the option to say “I want you, I want your body” and he responds positively is so icky, it’s how you know he is really no longer himself, especially when only recently (in Shadowcursed lands) he admitted that he wanted someone for once to want him for something other than his body. He wanted to wait to get into bed with you again because he wanted you to want him for him, and not for what he could do for you.
@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan yeah ascended Astarion gets PISSED if you even mention Cazadors name, but spawn Astarion is basically like “yeah I’m glad the bastard is dead now” but doesn’t get mad at you just for mentioning him. And if you become his spawn (technically a vampire bride) then he gives you “rules” just like Cazador did, only he doesn’t outright say they are rules because he is much better at manipulating people than Cazador was. Cazador had the rule about “thou shall not drink the blood of thinking creatures” and AA gives you the line like “oh there’s no need to worry about you finding blood to drink, I’ll handle all that” (therefore still controlling who/what/when you can drink blood)
@@elenalizabeth Ascended Astarion gets pissed if you call him Cazador. You can bring up how he felt at Cazador and he tells you he felt great killing him. At the epilogue you can bring up Cazador again if unromanced and he tells you that he knows you are trying to hurt him, but it wont work
@@SquirrellySkeptical that still sounds like he never “heals from it” then if even bringing up Cazador makes Astarion think you are trying to hurt him - because that is what ascended Astarion thinks - that everyone wants to hurt him and so that is why he needed to be more powerful than them all. Because that is what he was told by Cazador for 200 years - that he was weak, stupid, powerless, that his body was his only useful trait, etc, and so by letting him ascend you confirm his fears/beliefs. But spawn Astarion (especially if romanced) realises that you have his back, that you are his friend, his confidant, his equal, and that will be there for him (even when he is being a bit of an ass), so he realised that he could be better than Cazador by not becoming the new master and not killing all those innocents, because with you as his friend (or lover) he didn’t really need that ascendent power to be powerful.
@@elenalizabethwhat? He doesn’t control where/how you drink your blood. He even openly encourages you to drink from the drow twins (and Halsin) if you visit them, and from himself the morning after he turns you. Not sure where you got that line from
When he talks about how we will regret keeping him, he looks as if he already regrets it, more than anything else in the world. Considering his psychotype, I admit that this is actually the case.
“you came so far-only to slip now” that line just fucks with me hard. it’s like AA believes you’re the one who needed healing, you’re the one HE was fixing. he truly believes that HE is the savior in your story, just like cazador believes he was the savior in astarion’s story.
Oh Interesting, I haven't seen it like that before. it shows that his views have now really adapted to those of cazador. that you are weak just because you are not powerful.
if you look into how cazador presents himself to astarion, it’s very clear he has a savior complex. he used enthralled gur hunters to track him down and unalive him, only so cazador could show up and “save” him. that’s what AA is doing too. hes believing himself to be tav’s savior, saving you from yourself. he is so deluded that he truly believes that this entire time, he’s been saving you. you’re not “fixing” him, he’s fixing you. just as cazador fixed him.
@@teriyaki_chick and when you suggest to Astarion that’s “it’s rather suspicious that Cazador just happened to show up right at that point to save him”, Astarion tries to brush it off like “maybe he was just drawn to the scent of blood”, like no hun, the bastard planned it all so he could get you under his control and make you his pretty little mind-controlled puppet. And then when we got to Cazadors palace and actually met him, I was like WTF this little squirrelly motherf*cker is the one who has been hurting you 🤬🤬 as soon as Cazador spoke and was an a**hole to Astarion I was like “why is there no torture him before killing option” 🤬🤬
I'm not saying you're wrong at all, and you could very well be correct. However, my personal take is that he started to believe that Tav cared and loved him, only to slip and show that they never really did. He has a line where he says, "There you are. The real you shows yourself at last. We are bound until the end, you and I. But there will be an end. Until then, you can enjoy my company. You can benefit from my power. But you will not be in my heart," after telling him, "You're a hypocrite, and I don't want to be with you". He'll also say a version of the same thing before leaving for good if Tav says, "I don't want to look at you again. Get out of my camp". To me, it seems like he had a feeling Tav was saying all the right things to get him to care about them, using him, and biding their time only to betray him. While it is with good reason, breaking up with him is a betrayal after everything, especially since he literally couldn't have done the ritual without Tav's help and then they kind of put all the blame on him after when they're just as much to blame. To quote him, "Your hands are as bloody as mine, darling. Why would you go along with any of this just to pretend you're innocent now?".
With AA like this, I really don’t get the people that see this as a happy ending for him. I feel like there must be a media literacy issue there. You can call it a satisfying ending for a tragic character, but that’s pretty much it. It is not a happy ending. If you listened to Astarion at all, especially in the second act, this is not what he wanted. He might have wanted power, but only not to be abused anymore and to be free of cazador. What he also wanted was a healthy relationship with someone, not even necessarily romantic. Just someone who actually cared about him and wants to stay with him just for him. He will never have this now.
And he is absolutely and completely free, while spawn Astarion only thinks about freedom. He says about that in the epilogue. "I was thinking about freedom... " VS Ascended says "freedom! Finally! "
I like the point about media literacy. I see many only referring to the things Ascended Astarion SAYS, not taking into consideration any subtext or more subtle forms of communicating a story, such as the references to Cazador's rules in his own dialogue, the forewarnings he gave about no vampire every intending to make a competitor (meaning he is obviously lying when he tells Tav he'll make them one eventually), as well as the fact that Neil puts on that manipulative, theatrical performance we know from when Astarion was being deceitful earlier in the game. Potential media literacy issue that people only capture what is stated explicitly, and do not read between the lines?
The fact that Tav saying "I wanted you to feel safe" gives DISAPPROVAL at this point omg. Also the language he uses, calling you a pet like you're some kind of dog, AND the fact he literally tells you he could turn you against your will... Probably the most creepy thing in this game tbh. I wish there was a way to stay with him without having to become his spawn. I know you kinda can if you go straight to the brain after Cazador without long resting, but it's kinda an exploit. The only time I ascended him, I was playing as evil Dark Urge and I was really ready to lean into the toxic power couple but she would've NEVER given him a total control of herself (as spawn) and all that came with her position (I finished the Dark Urge quest before going to Cazador).
You get a disapproval whichever option you pick there....its the line after it that gives you the disapproval (Astarions line)..but basically you are telling him you want to break up and all of those options give you disapproval
Their has to be consequence for killing 7,000 people, making them die horribly by having them exploded from the inside out including children and then sending them to one of the worst demons in hell 🤷♀ . Considering the other bad endings for character you basically get of Scott free
Oh this is so sad. He reminds me a bit of other fallen heroes like Anakin Skywalker or Arthas Menethil, but instead of being good and then turning evil, you have someone who was on his way to being better and then you yank the rug out from underneath him. It's kind of worse, in a way. He's so wonderfully, beautifully tragic. And the tragedy was all penned by the player.
I think it does show some of the original Astarion is still in there given he doesn't try to make you a spawn. His enslavement broke him and he can't bring himself to do the same thing to someone he does still care about, even if he's pissed off and now morally disagrees with you.
He doesn't because he can't control you as your tadpoled. When you go straight to netherbrain and don't become his spawn. He makes you one off screen, which may imply he forced it onto you.
He does still love you. Astarion will always- spawn or ascended- lash out when he feels powerless. If you betray his trust or his love, he will act like he NEVER loved you, like he NEVER had feelings for you- when it reality, he did develop feelings for you and loves you deeply. While he does have dialogues that make it seem as though he doesnt love you as ascended Astarion, he still does- and im not just saying that because I like Astarion. It's all a facade, an act. He finally feels powerful for the first time in his life- but every now and then he slips up and lets the cracks show for a moment. He is still the same Astarion, he just acts like a cocky brat and a monster because he wants people to know he is powerful now. But he does still love you more than anything in the world. He COULD have made you a spawn, but he made you his bride. He toys with the idea, of course, so you THINK youre a spawn hes graciously gifted free will- because, again, he wants to keep that sense of power he has for the first time in two hundred years as a slave- you can tell when he tells you that you were his mad love, that he will miss you for the rest of eternity if you leave. He just doesnt want to show weakness. Because he fears winding up in the same spot. So no, hes not gonna be a good person anymore- but he's still the same Astarion. Just... doing what he feels like he has to do to keep that power.
I prefer the vulnerability and open softness of spawn Astarion. Where he finally learns to let the walls down. I love the tenderness. But they're both still the real him. It's just the difference between learning to come to terms with his vulnerability or not doing that and keeping the walls up- just, letting you live within them, too. I literally only ascended him because I can't bear the thought of him being unable to see the sun ever again. It hurt my heart. So even though I preferred the tenderness, I went with the ascension- but that doesn't mean I'm gonna defend it blindly. I'm not saying he's good as an ascended vampire, just that he's still the same man. The outer shell, how he presents himself, is all that changes. And I feel like there are several scenes that really show that. The entire way he speaks feels like a performance after ascension, but then he says certain things in his normal voice- like the "oh shit"
@@foxbiscuit ascended is, what cazador showed him to be like. May he love Tav, but can not handle the feeling of been vulnerable. And love becomes Obsession and Obsession is always a sign of fear. However, ascended kind of love (relationship) is not a healthy or Beautiful one. Not for him.
Argh this video is a little late for me since I thought there was a possibility he loved the player and so I mentioned it in a video essay, but now I'm not so sure. But thank you for sharing these clips. They really help form a comprehensive idea about the character. (Edit: grammar)
I also think that he loves the player in a way. But I think there are different ways to deal with love. Some are jealous and control their partner etc. and there is sincere, equal love. The former is a love that maintains the self-image, they love someone because they love and adore them. Which would explain his obsessive behavior and controlling. He must have power over u at all costs even if it doesn't make you happy.
@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan @KOOLPLUG I don't know if it's a good thing to stamp such an obviously toxic relationship with love. What is this supposed to convey to those who are stuck in such relationships? 'He decides about my life but at least he loves me?'
@@Arvania90 absolutely. If there's something I don't like, it's when he's portrayed as romantic and trivialize his abusive actions. This is the tragic end, where he gives in to his trauma and hates everyone and everything. (A relief to no longer have mercy) and there is no room for sincere love tbh
Someone that tells tou you'll regret it/something between those lines is only trying to hurt you in order to convince himself that the relationship was not that big of a deal. He's still insecure af 😅
Huh... The way Astarion gets past you is by telling himself that being beholden to you would be like being enslaved. Even though he thinks it's ridiculous that you'd feel that way the other way round before the break up. I'm not an AA girl, but I definitely believe he cares about Tav/Durge, no matter what baggage he's taking into ascension that colours his view of the dynamic. Heard something recently that some people see obedience as love. The other side of that is that control is love; on the insight check during ascension he genuinely believes Tav wants to be degraded. Imo he's giving Tav what they want... In my Tav's case it's a bit incorrect, lol, but that's to do with my own baggage tbh. Some Tavs/Durges/people are comfortable with their own power and totally happy to have that dynamic! I can see why other people would think it's unhealthy, but it definitely doesn't have to be imo.
I think Larian makes it clear that he uses love as manipulation. But I also think that AA loves Tav/Durge in a way, a different love than Spawns. But an obsession is always the fear of losing your self-image. Possessiveness is the fear of losing control over the person (love). I don't wish that kind of love for him tbh. With the Ascension you convey to him that the worldview he had through Cazador is correct. That he is weak and has to be strong, he doesn't allow himself weakness and therefore feelings that can seem weak. love, compassion. everything is just about more power. For him, true feelings like friendship means playing machinations. I don't wish that for him either. During the insight check he thinks you are degrading yourself staying with him - his goal is freedom and body autonomy - by becoming his spawn you give that up. Therefore he finds you degrading yourself. But if u break up with him, he Respekt u for that.
Okay, I want to chime in on the obedience and control equals love part, because that mindset usually comes from a lifetime of ab*se and is a coping mechanism. It is NOT healthy and will only hurt you in the long term. It keeps you alive in a toxic environment, but only causes you more harm as soon as you leave. PLEASE let's not normalize this. If you are into this dynamic, try bdsm, but don't stay with an abusive person. They will grind you to dust until nothing is left of you.
@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan true! I agree with a lot of that, but maybe with a couple of caveats and a different spin. The mechanical method he uses to turn T/D is consistent with making a vampire bride, not a spawn. I read in that relationship you have an eternal link to each other and the bride can't be controlled like a spawn, you are beholden to each other, and traditionally vampires trick their brides into it. It is a duplicitous way of securing the relationship, although he's very clear about the whole "aeterna amantes" thing (iirc he says that T/D will be his, but he also says he will be yours) to get your consent, he just omits how much power you'll have. And if you go through with it pretty much every single thing Astarion says about freedom and control is... Total posturing. Like, he says he doesn't "need" to control you because you'll do whatever he says anyway. Because he probably _can't_ control you (as a bride). He says you can't break up... Because yeah you have an eternal undying bond that you consented to. He's also got a very secure attachment style; if you get turned and go away for several months with Karlach and meet him again at the epilogue, he's like "Yeah no that's totally cool! I figure you're coming back and we have eternity, of course you can have a gallivant with your friends." and both versions of Astarion seem totally fine with Halsin. Ultimately, for all that he wants a power dynamic, I do think his starting position with the mortal T/D is be driven by love and a desire to secure you forever, but that the evolution of that relationship isn't driven by insecurity and control. I see it a bit like Titania and Oberon, or Hera and Zeus; manipulation and deceit are tools AA and T/D can both wield. If T/D just obeys, that would "ruin" their love. If they turn it back on AA like only a consort can, they're just taking on the (perhaps flawed) roles that eternal lovers of legend often have, in a way that mortals maybe can't. I can see why the breakup scenario looks like this, but I don't think it's true to the non-breakup scenario.
Also, when he meets you he thinks you're just a pawn to manipulate with love and sex. That changes completely, obviously. When he ascends I think it just puts him back to square 1 because the power dynamic is sooo over the top: sure, he thinks you're degrading yourself because in his experience he would have been, too, if he was in your shoes. I don't usually like to believe in "I can change him", but given that you already did it before I'm 80% confident it won't be a problem doing it again. Gotta address baggage step by step, this might just be the next step.
But I think it's totally okay to not feel that way. Even if you agreed there's an 80% chance your relationship will evolve, 80% is great odds for one shot in ranged combat, it's not great odds for an eternal relationship.
You can tell by Neil's performance. He did a great job with developing and establishing Astarion's deceitfulness, and he brings it back up that performance again with so many of AA's lines. That last clip here is brutal honesty - if not what he inteded from the start, then it would turn that way eventually, anyway. Tav would be no one special after a couple of hundred years.
@@EvelinaNinudottir Sorry your Tav would be no one special at that point. That's not what happens in my roleplay with my Tav though. Hope your Tav can find happiness somewhere else!
I supported Astarion's assention cause at least in that case he won't need help anymore and be his own master. Better outcome than having to live in shadows again even if Cazador dead. I just wish he was smarter with his powers😅
So. Much. Hate towards the Ascended Astarion. You guys are no better than him. If you make a person angry in real life, if you are rude to him, do you think he will thank you? Astarion's reaction is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL in this situation.
@@MaryJay1988 It's not hate, it's pity. because what you see as happy, we see as madness. what you see as the real astarion, we see the traumatized one. hence the pity
Disliking someone who pushes you to commit mass genocide and crying bout how it's hateful is really deranged lol. Also Astarion isn't Tav slave master, they are the leader of the party and his behavior isn't above being question. I sese you on all deranged Astarion video's defending abuse girlie :)- Threating to force someone into a spawn because they "made you mad" shows that your just an evil person
'You're not worthy, I'd have RUINED your love, you'll REGRET LEAVING ME...'
Five seconds later
'Um so can we still be evil collegues ... that like, kiss when an evil plan goes off perfectly....?'
hahahahah
people who're genuinely like "but he's so happy when he's ascended!!" need to go back to english class or get a therapist or SOMETHING
a simple like button isn't enough so i will leave a comment too because holy shit yes
Ascended Astarion says a lot of heinous things. But his most chilling line has to be at the beginning: "I can't believe you let me do that. Killing all those people." A part of Astarion knew he was going too far with the ritual. Deep down he expected his partner, his equal, to push back against his worst impulses. Instead, he was driven by his fear until the last traces of him die in this scene.
@@thecheck968 exactly !!!
Exactly. Especially if you have such high approval. He knew deep down that if you had told him that killing all of those people was wrong, he wouldn’t have done it. A part of him wanted to be that better person, and he knew that if anyone could make him that, it would be Tav. That’s why when the game progresses and you’re playing a “goody two shoes” run, he has a conversation with you about how your approaches are too nice, but eventually you being nice no longer loses his approval and he even starts taking on some of those caring traits (like towards children like Yenna)
The 'I can't resist playing the hand I know' line is so sad, because that's a big part of the reason he didn't want to have physical relations for so long. He was scared he could not stop seeing the person he cares for as just another victim. Seems like after the ascensions his mindset switches to 'but that's exactly what you are'.
The disapproval when you tell him you just wanted him to feel safe is rough, especially when you know from the Nymph that this is his greatest desire 💀
I think that’s one of the biggest differences between ascended Astarion and spawn Astarion - as ascended he wants to rule over and control everyone (especially you), but as spawn he just wants to learn to live again (and maybe kill/eat a bunch of bad guys along the way).
Astarion just fundamentally doesn’t want to be alone, as that as what he felt for 200 years (utter loneliness), so now he has you he wants to hold on, so as ascended he uses control and manipulation to try to force you to stick around, but as spawn he shows you love and care so that you’ll want to stay with him of your own free will.
Hence why I don't understand why girls go puppy eyes for Ascended Astarion. No matter the relationship before, he doesn't love Tav after Ascension. He CAN'T love, he's incapable of love. Infatuation, lust, obsession, yes, but not love. Sorry girls, Ascended Astarion is the BAD ending. It's the ending where he didn't overcome or heal from his trauma, he succumbed to it. It's the worst possible scenario (besides dying). His body is alive, but his soul is dead.
@/iamkittybg3 is one of those delusional puppy girls.
The fact that there’s the option to say “I want you, I want your body” and he responds positively is so icky, it’s how you know he is really no longer himself, especially when only recently (in Shadowcursed lands) he admitted that he wanted someone for once to want him for something other than his body. He wanted to wait to get into bed with you again because he wanted you to want him for him, and not for what he could do for you.
Exactly, actually every dialogue with AA is tragic, sad or frightening on some level.
@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan yeah ascended Astarion gets PISSED if you even mention Cazadors name, but spawn Astarion is basically like “yeah I’m glad the bastard is dead now” but doesn’t get mad at you just for mentioning him.
And if you become his spawn (technically a vampire bride) then he gives you “rules” just like Cazador did, only he doesn’t outright say they are rules because he is much better at manipulating people than Cazador was.
Cazador had the rule about “thou shall not drink the blood of thinking creatures” and AA gives you the line like “oh there’s no need to worry about you finding blood to drink, I’ll handle all that” (therefore still controlling who/what/when you can drink blood)
@@elenalizabeth Ascended Astarion gets pissed if you call him Cazador. You can bring up how he felt at Cazador and he tells you he felt great killing him.
At the epilogue you can bring up Cazador again if unromanced and he tells you that he knows you are trying to hurt him, but it wont work
@@SquirrellySkeptical that still sounds like he never “heals from it” then if even bringing up Cazador makes Astarion think you are trying to hurt him - because that is what ascended Astarion thinks - that everyone wants to hurt him and so that is why he needed to be more powerful than them all. Because that is what he was told by Cazador for 200 years - that he was weak, stupid, powerless, that his body was his only useful trait, etc, and so by letting him ascend you confirm his fears/beliefs.
But spawn Astarion (especially if romanced) realises that you have his back, that you are his friend, his confidant, his equal, and that will be there for him (even when he is being a bit of an ass), so he realised that he could be better than Cazador by not becoming the new master and not killing all those innocents, because with you as his friend (or lover) he didn’t really need that ascendent power to be powerful.
@@elenalizabethwhat? He doesn’t control where/how you drink your blood. He even openly encourages you to drink from the drow twins (and Halsin) if you visit them, and from himself the morning after he turns you. Not sure where you got that line from
When he talks about how we will regret keeping him, he looks as if he already regrets it, more than anything else in the world. Considering his psychotype, I admit that this is actually the case.
Do you mean leaving him? 😅
“you came so far-only to slip now” that line just fucks with me hard. it’s like AA believes you’re the one who needed healing, you’re the one HE was fixing. he truly believes that HE is the savior in your story, just like cazador believes he was the savior in astarion’s story.
Oh Interesting, I haven't seen it like that before. it shows that his views have now really adapted to those of cazador. that you are weak just because you are not powerful.
if you look into how cazador presents himself to astarion, it’s very clear he has a savior complex. he used enthralled gur hunters to track him down and unalive him, only so cazador could show up and “save” him. that’s what AA is doing too. hes believing himself to be tav’s savior, saving you from yourself. he is so deluded that he truly believes that this entire time, he’s been saving you. you’re not “fixing” him, he’s fixing you. just as cazador fixed him.
@@teriyaki_chick and when you suggest to Astarion that’s “it’s rather suspicious that Cazador just happened to show up right at that point to save him”, Astarion tries to brush it off like “maybe he was just drawn to the scent of blood”, like no hun, the bastard planned it all so he could get you under his control and make you his pretty little mind-controlled puppet.
And then when we got to Cazadors palace and actually met him, I was like WTF this little squirrelly motherf*cker is the one who has been hurting you 🤬🤬 as soon as Cazador spoke and was an a**hole to Astarion I was like “why is there no torture him before killing option” 🤬🤬
Wow this is so interesting, true narcissistic abuse going on at this point
I'm not saying you're wrong at all, and you could very well be correct. However, my personal take is that he started to believe that Tav cared and loved him, only to slip and show that they never really did. He has a line where he says, "There you are. The real you shows yourself at last. We are bound until the end, you and I. But there will be an end. Until then, you can enjoy my company. You can benefit from my power. But you will not be in my heart," after telling him, "You're a hypocrite, and I don't want to be with you". He'll also say a version of the same thing before leaving for good if Tav says, "I don't want to look at you again. Get out of my camp". To me, it seems like he had a feeling Tav was saying all the right things to get him to care about them, using him, and biding their time only to betray him. While it is with good reason, breaking up with him is a betrayal after everything, especially since he literally couldn't have done the ritual without Tav's help and then they kind of put all the blame on him after when they're just as much to blame. To quote him, "Your hands are as bloody as mine, darling. Why would you go along with any of this just to pretend you're innocent now?".
This version of Astarion is the absolute worst, but the way he says "LAAUHVE" at 3:42 sent me 😂
He is incerdible :D
I HATE how the way he said that made me laugh ASCENDED ASTARION WHEN I CATCH YOU
With AA like this, I really don’t get the people that see this as a happy ending for him. I feel like there must be a media literacy issue there. You can call it a satisfying ending for a tragic character, but that’s pretty much it. It is not a happy ending. If you listened to Astarion at all, especially in the second act, this is not what he wanted. He might have wanted power, but only not to be abused anymore and to be free of cazador. What he also wanted was a healthy relationship with someone, not even necessarily romantic. Just someone who actually cared about him and wants to stay with him just for him. He will never have this now.
And he is absolutely and completely free, while spawn Astarion only thinks about freedom. He says about that in the epilogue. "I was thinking about freedom... " VS Ascended says "freedom! Finally! "
@@MaryJay1988 He says he is free in the epilogue in both versions
I like the point about media literacy. I see many only referring to the things Ascended Astarion SAYS, not taking into consideration any subtext or more subtle forms of communicating a story, such as the references to Cazador's rules in his own dialogue, the forewarnings he gave about no vampire every intending to make a competitor (meaning he is obviously lying when he tells Tav he'll make them one eventually), as well as the fact that Neil puts on that manipulative, theatrical performance we know from when Astarion was being deceitful earlier in the game.
Potential media literacy issue that people only capture what is stated explicitly, and do not read between the lines?
And people STILL defend this guy 😭 when I catch you AA 🤺
Especially if you play as Karlach. 😭
Lmfao 😂
Well it is the player's fault he's like that. Making a deal with an archdevil isn't gonna give you rainbows and a shower of rose petals 😅
The fact that Tav saying "I wanted you to feel safe" gives DISAPPROVAL at this point omg. Also the language he uses, calling you a pet like you're some kind of dog, AND the fact he literally tells you he could turn you against your will... Probably the most creepy thing in this game tbh.
I wish there was a way to stay with him without having to become his spawn. I know you kinda can if you go straight to the brain after Cazador without long resting, but it's kinda an exploit. The only time I ascended him, I was playing as evil Dark Urge and I was really ready to lean into the toxic power couple but she would've NEVER given him a total control of herself (as spawn) and all that came with her position (I finished the Dark Urge quest before going to Cazador).
You get a disapproval whichever option you pick there....its the line after it that gives you the disapproval (Astarions line)..but basically you are telling him you want to break up and all of those options give you disapproval
Mizora calls Wyll a 'pet" too by the way.
Their has to be consequence for killing 7,000 people, making them die horribly by having them exploded from the inside out including children and then sending them to one of the worst demons in hell 🤷♀ . Considering the other bad endings for character you basically get of Scott free
Oh this is so sad. He reminds me a bit of other fallen heroes like Anakin Skywalker or Arthas Menethil, but instead of being good and then turning evil, you have someone who was on his way to being better and then you yank the rug out from underneath him. It's kind of worse, in a way.
He's so wonderfully, beautifully tragic. And the tragedy was all penned by the player.
I think it does show some of the original Astarion is still in there given he doesn't try to make you a spawn. His enslavement broke him and he can't bring himself to do the same thing to someone he does still care about, even if he's pissed off and now morally disagrees with you.
He doesn't because he can't control you as your tadpoled. When you go straight to netherbrain and don't become his spawn. He makes you one off screen, which may imply he forced it onto you.
He does still love you. Astarion will always- spawn or ascended- lash out when he feels powerless.
If you betray his trust or his love, he will act like he NEVER loved you, like he NEVER had feelings for you- when it reality, he did develop feelings for you and loves you deeply.
While he does have dialogues that make it seem as though he doesnt love you as ascended Astarion, he still does- and im not just saying that because I like Astarion. It's all a facade, an act. He finally feels powerful for the first time in his life- but every now and then he slips up and lets the cracks show for a moment. He is still the same Astarion, he just acts like a cocky brat and a monster because he wants people to know he is powerful now.
But he does still love you more than anything in the world. He COULD have made you a spawn, but he made you his bride. He toys with the idea, of course, so you THINK youre a spawn hes graciously gifted free will- because, again, he wants to keep that sense of power he has for the first time in two hundred years as a slave- you can tell when he tells you that you were his mad love, that he will miss you for the rest of eternity if you leave.
He just doesnt want to show weakness. Because he fears winding up in the same spot. So no, hes not gonna be a good person anymore- but he's still the same Astarion. Just... doing what he feels like he has to do to keep that power.
I prefer the vulnerability and open softness of spawn Astarion. Where he finally learns to let the walls down. I love the tenderness.
But they're both still the real him. It's just the difference between learning to come to terms with his vulnerability or not doing that and keeping the walls up- just, letting you live within them, too.
I literally only ascended him because I can't bear the thought of him being unable to see the sun ever again. It hurt my heart. So even though I preferred the tenderness, I went with the ascension- but that doesn't mean I'm gonna defend it blindly. I'm not saying he's good as an ascended vampire, just that he's still the same man. The outer shell, how he presents himself, is all that changes. And I feel like there are several scenes that really show that. The entire way he speaks feels like a performance after ascension, but then he says certain things in his normal voice- like the "oh shit"
@@foxbiscuit ascended is, what cazador showed him to be like.
May he love Tav, but can not handle the feeling of been vulnerable. And love becomes Obsession and Obsession is always a sign of fear.
However, ascended kind of love (relationship) is not a healthy or Beautiful one. Not for him.
Astarion has the best dialogues
Argh this video is a little late for me since I thought there was a possibility he loved the player and so I mentioned it in a video essay, but now I'm not so sure. But thank you for sharing these clips. They really help form a comprehensive idea about the character. (Edit: grammar)
I also think that he loves the player in a way. But I think there are different ways to deal with love. Some are jealous and control their partner etc. and there is sincere, equal love. The former is a love that maintains the self-image, they love someone because they love and adore them.
Which would explain his obsessive behavior and controlling. He must have power over u at all costs even if it doesn't make you happy.
@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan
@KOOLPLUG I don't know if it's a good thing to stamp such an obviously toxic relationship with love. What is this supposed to convey to those who are stuck in such relationships?
'He decides about my life but at least he loves me?'
@@Arvania90 absolutely. If there's something I don't like, it's when he's portrayed as romantic and trivialize his abusive actions.
This is the tragic end, where he gives in to his trauma and hates everyone and everything. (A relief to no longer have mercy) and there is no room for sincere love tbh
Someone that tells tou you'll regret it/something between those lines is only trying to hurt you in order to convince himself that the relationship was not that big of a deal. He's still insecure af 😅
Huh... The way Astarion gets past you is by telling himself that being beholden to you would be like being enslaved. Even though he thinks it's ridiculous that you'd feel that way the other way round before the break up.
I'm not an AA girl, but I definitely believe he cares about Tav/Durge, no matter what baggage he's taking into ascension that colours his view of the dynamic.
Heard something recently that some people see obedience as love. The other side of that is that control is love; on the insight check during ascension he genuinely believes Tav wants to be degraded. Imo he's giving Tav what they want... In my Tav's case it's a bit incorrect, lol, but that's to do with my own baggage tbh. Some Tavs/Durges/people are comfortable with their own power and totally happy to have that dynamic! I can see why other people would think it's unhealthy, but it definitely doesn't have to be imo.
I think Larian makes it clear that he uses love as manipulation.
But I also think that AA loves Tav/Durge in a way, a different love than Spawns.
But an obsession is always the fear of losing your self-image. Possessiveness is the fear of losing control over the person (love). I don't wish that kind of love for him tbh.
With the Ascension you convey to him that the worldview he had through Cazador is correct. That he is weak and has to be strong, he doesn't allow himself weakness and therefore feelings that can seem weak. love, compassion. everything is just about more power. For him, true feelings like friendship means playing machinations. I don't wish that for him either.
During the insight check he thinks you are degrading yourself staying with him - his goal is freedom and body autonomy - by becoming his spawn you give that up. Therefore he finds you degrading yourself.
But if u break up with him, he Respekt u for that.
Okay, I want to chime in on the obedience and control equals love part, because that mindset usually comes from a lifetime of ab*se and is a coping mechanism. It is NOT healthy and will only hurt you in the long term. It keeps you alive in a toxic environment, but only causes you more harm as soon as you leave. PLEASE let's not normalize this.
If you are into this dynamic, try bdsm, but don't stay with an abusive person. They will grind you to dust until nothing is left of you.
@@OonalovesAstarionssimpleplan true! I agree with a lot of that, but maybe with a couple of caveats and a different spin.
The mechanical method he uses to turn T/D is consistent with making a vampire bride, not a spawn. I read in that relationship you have an eternal link to each other and the bride can't be controlled like a spawn, you are beholden to each other, and traditionally vampires trick their brides into it. It is a duplicitous way of securing the relationship, although he's very clear about the whole "aeterna amantes" thing (iirc he says that T/D will be his, but he also says he will be yours) to get your consent, he just omits how much power you'll have. And if you go through with it pretty much every single thing Astarion says about freedom and control is... Total posturing. Like, he says he doesn't "need" to control you because you'll do whatever he says anyway. Because he probably _can't_ control you (as a bride). He says you can't break up... Because yeah you have an eternal undying bond that you consented to. He's also got a very secure attachment style; if you get turned and go away for several months with Karlach and meet him again at the epilogue, he's like "Yeah no that's totally cool! I figure you're coming back and we have eternity, of course you can have a gallivant with your friends." and both versions of Astarion seem totally fine with Halsin.
Ultimately, for all that he wants a power dynamic, I do think his starting position with the mortal T/D is be driven by love and a desire to secure you forever, but that the evolution of that relationship isn't driven by insecurity and control. I see it a bit like Titania and Oberon, or Hera and Zeus; manipulation and deceit are tools AA and T/D can both wield. If T/D just obeys, that would "ruin" their love. If they turn it back on AA like only a consort can, they're just taking on the (perhaps flawed) roles that eternal lovers of legend often have, in a way that mortals maybe can't.
I can see why the breakup scenario looks like this, but I don't think it's true to the non-breakup scenario.
Also, when he meets you he thinks you're just a pawn to manipulate with love and sex. That changes completely, obviously. When he ascends I think it just puts him back to square 1 because the power dynamic is sooo over the top: sure, he thinks you're degrading yourself because in his experience he would have been, too, if he was in your shoes. I don't usually like to believe in "I can change him", but given that you already did it before I'm 80% confident it won't be a problem doing it again. Gotta address baggage step by step, this might just be the next step.
But I think it's totally okay to not feel that way. Even if you agreed there's an 80% chance your relationship will evolve, 80% is great odds for one shot in ranged combat, it's not great odds for an eternal relationship.
So everything he says is a lie, except when he says this. Yay!
You can tell by Neil's performance. He did a great job with developing and establishing Astarion's deceitfulness, and he brings it back up that performance again with so many of AA's lines.
That last clip here is brutal honesty - if not what he inteded from the start, then it would turn that way eventually, anyway. Tav would be no one special after a couple of hundred years.
@@EvelinaNinudottir Sorry your Tav would be no one special at that point. That's not what happens in my roleplay with my Tav though. Hope your Tav can find happiness somewhere else!
i really wanted to be a vampire and with astarion live in this castle... why they did astarion so evil in this version...so annoying
I supported Astarion's assention cause at least in that case he won't need help anymore and be his own master. Better outcome than having to live in shadows again even if Cazador dead. I just wish he was smarter with his powers😅
So. Much. Hate towards the Ascended Astarion. You guys are no better than him. If you make a person angry in real life, if you are rude to him, do you think he will thank you? Astarion's reaction is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL in this situation.
@@MaryJay1988 It's not hate, it's pity. because what you see as happy, we see as madness. what you see as the real astarion, we see the traumatized one. hence the pity
Disliking someone who pushes you to commit mass genocide and crying bout how it's hateful is really deranged lol. Also Astarion isn't Tav slave master, they are the leader of the party and his behavior isn't above being question. I sese you on all deranged Astarion video's defending abuse girlie :)- Threating to force someone into a spawn because they "made you mad" shows that your just an evil person
meanwhile the Tav in the videos big great sin is.. not wanting to be controlled. And being told that yes, in fact, he would’ve forced stuff upon her