@@sageofthickcalves Early War Kakashi is my favourite scaling for a variety of reasons but specifically because his visual prowess with kamui can keep up with the velocity of kcm1 and 2 characters. Although I say that DMS Kakashi is the strongest character in the series and the most intriguing scaling.
I feel like a lot of people who underestimate Kakashi forget about the lesson on what is chakra that was given BY SAKURA at the very start of Naruto. Chakra is made of >physical< and >spiritual energy.< Kakashi has struggled with depression since Sakumo's death, and it got horribly worse with Obito, Rin, Minato and Kushina's deaths. And what depression does to people? It fucks up their mind. Their spirit. He found some solace in Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke (and Gai, of course) but then Sasuke going insane pushed him back into this dark hole he had barely gotten out of. He pushed through it for Naruto and Sakura, but nevertheless felt terrible, because he saw himself in Sasuke. So, up until right before Pain's attack, Kakashi is still struggling with mental health issues and has a sharingan that sucks tons of his chakra, but he was already a living legend, even though he was hurting, and that's a fucking powerful statement to anyone suffering with mental illnesses. I'd like to point out his fight against Kakuzu and Hidan during this period of time. For me, that is one of Kakashi's best fights, if not the best. And then, he dies during his fight with pain. I cried oceans of bitter tears, and almost quit watching Naruto. But now i see that his encouter with Sakumo in the limbo had a pretty fucking good reason for happening. It was the true start of Kakashi's road to full emotional recovery. So, his power up in late shippuden and during the war make quite a lot of sense. He got closure with his father, and that was one weight taken off of his heart. Not to mention he obviously kept on training like crazy during shippuden and going on missions off screen. And then he got closure with Obito, Rin and Minato during the war. AND THEN the physical and emotional burden of the sharingan was taken off of him. AND THEN, the cherry on top: Naruto saves Sasuke. Hokage Kakashi is a fully healed man, both emotionally and physically. His chakra levels are boosted, no sharingan strain or spiritual pains holding him back. That's why Hokage Kakashi is the strongest version of the character, and we urgently need to see his fights in this period animated. Kakashi is a incredible character. One of the best in anime.
With the exeption of double MS kakashi who is arguably the strongest character in shipuuden. Spamming gaint kamui shuriken while making yourself intangible is just too OP.
Another note for Kakashi in the Kage Summit is he might have gotten a buff from the Pain arc due to having had a talk with his father in purgatory and getting some closer, which could possibly lift some of his depression that's been nerfing him. That could also be part of the reason for his increase to the early War arc. And while this does hurt the Pain > Kakashi ~ Sasuke speed meta, I sadly do what I must and provide all I know lol.
@@jason15212 Well I wouldn't say it was meant as a scaling justification moment, I definitely think it was just some good character stuff for Kakashi from Kishimoto, but it works out that it also works for scaling.
That 5KS kakashi scaling was Crazy. He literally compares himself to the third hokage about fighting his pupil (who kakashi trained actively and took an interest into his development and mental state more than with Naruto and Sakura). I’ve never seen the guide statement that direct confirms he has a darkness surrounding him during that fight too which adds more evidence to it.
Thank you soooo much for doing this. I love seeing some love for Kakashi. I do believe Kakashi is not enough credit for his strength and this makes me very happy. Good job!
i love kakashi and he's my favorite caracter. i think that the problem he suffer is that kishimoto just used kakashi as a benchmark for other, but he needed to stick to the history, so he has be become more and more strong to keep up
Yeah I honestly think that's why we see so much correction coming post-series. Kishimoto clearly intended for Kakashi to be one of the strongest in the verse, but he had to put him up against a lot of characters who were also super strong.
Outside of the haku and kaguya stuff, which i think there's a lot if context for both. I think this is pretty solid, maybe some minor stuff that could be debated but very well researched.
One point regarding KCM Naruto vs the Jinchuriki is that he was visibly uncoordinated throughout the fight before he went KCM2, even the V2 Jinchuriki concentrating their attacks at him and jumping him together, all while he was not at full power...
6:00 Something that's overlooked, Itachi warned Kisame not to engage part 1 Kakashi in combat, yet had no problem watching rain fall as Kisame captured Four-Tails (Chapter 353, page 3), implying that Itachi considered part 1 Kakashi to be a greater threat than a considerably experienced Biju host, which speaks volumes. Itachi also considered Kakashi a greater threat than Orochimau. A younger Itachi defeated Oro in seconds with a three tomoe Sharingan Genjutsu & took his arm, whereas in order to take down Kakashi he felt pressured to brute force a win with MS Genjutsu. Part 1 Kakashi implied that he had the power to take down Orochimaru irrespective of his Sanin status (Chapter 70, page 1). However, in order to instil fear in Kakashi, causing him to second guess his capabilities, Orochimaru used a Genjutsu to have him imagine his death (head being cut off) Chapter 70, page 3. He did the same to Sasuke & Sakura in the forest of death, except they had Kunai sticking through their heads. Sasuke described it to be an illusion/Genjustu (Chapter 47, page 9). They didn’t show Kakashi’s sliced head in the anime for some reason, probably to keep it PG. Anyway, he wasn’t afraid of Orochimaru, After the Genjutsu wore off, Kakashi was prepared to encounter Orochimaru again incase he sought after Sasuke for another round who was on bed rest, but it happened to be Kabuto instead (Chapter 88). Kakashi felt fully capable that he could handle Orochimaru without the need to report back to Hiruzen, which gives some credence to databook 1 confirming that he was Konoha's strongest ninja. 11:58 Also, Yamato considered himself vastly inferior to Kakashi when filling in for him as team 7's captain (Chapter 284, page 15). And there's no indication that he knew Kakashi could use Kamui at that given time since he was away on ANBU duty all those years. Yet that same Yamato was confident that if he stopped holding back so much, he'd be able to neutralize Hebi Sasuke. That said, according to Yamato -- Early shippuden Kakashi (without Kamui) >> Yamato > base Hebi Sasuke. 14:17 He could've wiped out the Deva path in a literal second. He caught the Deva path completely off-guard upon his arrival, yet instead of blitzing the Deva with Lightning blade like he did Kakuzu, he grabbed his chakra receiver instead (clear nerf to provoke a battle). Besides that, durability is the lifeblood of a shinobi's strength and despite your scaling being superb, it's a shame that you didn't take Kakashi's into account. During his fight against Kakuzu and Hidan, he managed to tank a wind style jutsu so powerful that it swept away the surrounding forest in one clean blow (Chapter 334, page 11-12). Hidan was expected to tank the jutsu because he's immortal, Kakashi wasn't, which means his durability is comparable to that of an immortals which is insane. He was also remarked to be the only shinobi who survived that attack despite Kakuzu and Hidan previously defeating a fully transformed Nibi (two-tails) off-screen. And against Pain, he tanked a total of *three* shinra Tensei, the last of which generated enough force to wipe out a man of Choza's size completely. During the war arc, he tanked his abdomen being sliced by Zabuza's Kubikiribocho, tanked being stabbed and sliced by Obito's fuma shuriken repeatedly leaving him with massive lacerations (Chapter 608) and tanked some of Minato's Senjutsu amped Rasengan prior to whisking it away with Kamui (Chapter 677, page 7). Chakra massively enhances durability levels, so he should be significantly more durable in the Boruto Era (without the chakra eating Sharingan).
Lastly, during the Early war arc segment, it suffices to say that Kakashi was adamant in his ability to wipe out *Five* Tailed-Beast bombs via Kamui (Chapter 571, page 2). And we can safely rely on his judgement because upon seeing Kaguya's massive truth-seeker orb that was about to swallow up her dimension, Kakashi professed that he wouldn't be able to warp an object that sizeable despite having dual MS, meaning he knows Kamui's boundaries extensively yet was still confident in his ability to erase Five beast bombs. To put that into perspective, teen Minato, Jiraiya and a few other shinobi quickly retreated upon encountering just two Tailed-Beast bombs (Chapter 700.5). For late war arc Kakashi's scaling, you should've mentioned that he was confident in his ability to erase the entire Ten-tails (Chapter 628, page 12) and was gonna erase it with Kamui until Obito quickly intercepted him. Obito intercepting him indicates that he thought Kakashi could pull it off. Keep in mind that this same Ten-tails that gave the entire shinobi alliance the hardest time of their lives (including the Edo Hokage later) was about to be put down with a single one of Kakashi's ocular jutsu. Subtly implying that he was the single most deadly shinobi on the battle field until Obito became Juubi's jinchuriki host. Top tier scaling video nonetheless. In my opinion, you make Swagkage look like a joke comparatively.
Completely agree with your point about him being stronger than haku. pre chunin exam sasuke tagged him Multiple times. There’s no way he’s not getting negged by kakashi. Also kakashi killed him… TWICE!
Well to be fair, haku didnt really want to kill sasuke, and getting beat by kyubi amped kid naruto isnt an anti feat as in part one kyubi amp was insane. Kakashi being weaker than haku at that point in time is not an anti feat either, haku was ridiculously strong, and he did managed to blitz kakashi mid raikiri to save zabuza. I just think its a case of the story having a significantly lower powerceiling early on, to the point that characters like haku and kimimaro, who were initially presented as anomalies in terms of power and potential now seem like fodder.
The goat is back and cooking! Never gave the Haku argument much thought. Nice job debunking it! I feel you could've made a stronger case for Part 1 Kakashi by bringing up the fanbook statement ("anyone going up against him risks death", and that was about pre-retraining Kakashi), and Kabuto's performance against Tsunade. Also, at 9:00 Kakashi outright states that he considers himself strong enough to take down a Sannin. A pre-retraining, Sharingan-covered Kakashi. I see no reason why a post-retraining Kakashi with Sharingan would be "vaguely below the Sannin" (base Sannin, that is), maybe except Orochimaru. 11:01-12:00 Awesome find! There's also an interesting bit of dialogue during team Kakashi's fight with Itachi's clone, where Kakashi says that he "probably" can't take on Itachi alone. Meaning early Shippuden Kakashi thinks himself capable of _potentially_ beating Part 1 Itachi. I mean, Jiraiya didn't think himself capable of beating in-base Animal Path alone. Furthermore, Kakashi being Konoha's top dog (pre-Sage Mode Naruto, obviously) is reaffirmed by the Third Databook, putting him above base Naruto, Gai, and Tsunade. Also, where do you get the suppressed Pain part from? 15:55 another great find! Btw. would you consider making a 5KS Kakashi vs Danzo video? After all, Danzo snuffed the Hokage title from Kakashi back then xD 18:53 damn, that birthday column is a gift that keeps on giving! 19:04 and that is a tired Kakashi after his battles with the Seven Swordsmen. The same guys who prompted Might Dai to go for the Eighth Gate immediately, without even bothering with the Seventh Gate. 24:00 Throw in Kamui blitzing KCM Minato's perception when Kakashi attempted to Kamui Gedo Mazo. 28:33 Damn... Excellent video, as usual. Your editing and argumentation are Otsutsuki-tier. Keep it up!
@@sageofthickcalves Pain arc Kakashi can be safely scaled over Tendo, as Nagato saw fitting to send Asura as a backup. This is pretty crazy, seeing as a CST-weakened Tendo was still able to react to Sage Naruto's kick.
Kakashi is my goat & for some reason is criminally underrated throughout the whole series somehow 🗣️🗣️. It’s like after part 1 people in general just started to sleep on him idgi
@@sageofthickcalves for that to happen, 12yo Kakashi who can't even use chidori properly have to be stronger than This Adult Kakashi. Which doesn't even make sense. So No. That statement was not reffering to a young version of himself.
@sageofthickcalves Didn't Kakashi become a jonin same time when Obito became a Chunin !? And being Jonin at that time doesn't mean he was Well into Jonin lvl. That was war time. The screening process wouldn't be as strict later ones
@ ok two things 1: Kakashi became a jonin right before Kannabi Bridge. Obito was 13 at Kannabi Bridge, but became a Chunin 2 years prior, at 11 years old. Since there’s a 4-ish year gap between Kakashi and Obito, as they graduated together at 5 and 9. 2: There’s no evidence that the criteria for becoming a JONIN was lower, only graduating the academy is stated to have been expedited. There’s no real reason to promote him to jonin early if he’s not already jonin level. In fact, it would be disadvantageous, whereas graduating people early in order to develop them faster and get them ready to join the battlefield makes practical sense. 3: Kakashi body bags Kakko, someone who’s called an “extremely powerful” jonin. This verifiably gets Kakashi firmly into the jonin tier.
Kakashi can pretty reasonably be put on the tier of adult rinnegan sasuke maybe even stronger, as there is another statement within the novel stating his feat is only replicable by the adult Naruto and adult sasuke. It’s good to note hokage Kakashi is one of few who has yin Yang release. To put into perspective the same rinnegan sasuke thinks he can take down kaguya threats without much issue, Kakashi also stated he’s orders of magnitudes stronger than he was in the war. So he should easily be in the ostuski combatant range The crazy thing is, Kakashi has yet to debut in the boruto manga, and the creator said Kakashi will play a extremely important role in the future, so this guy could potentially make his rerun even more busted than our estimate. Who’s knows what kind of training or things this guy has done throughout the time has hasn’t appeared, note how crazy this is, boruto in blue vortex effortlessly defeated no limiter code who stronger than jigen who then folded Naruto and sasuke, and effortlessly defeated hidari who’s stronger than full power adult sasuke. So people who are sasuke tier aren’t even that relevant or hyper impressive in blue vortex, so it’s hard to imagine what kind of power Kakashi would show up with to be a extremely important figure in the series moving forward stated by the author. It’s a shame a creator with a big following like NChammer put Kakashi in such bad light portraying him as someone weaker than tsunade or itachi
@3:30 :It's just like your nickname sensei - Kakashi @13:30 : But how?! I didn't even sense your approach. You were able to read... and interpret my signs...so quickly. And your mastery of lightning style jutsu? Thats it! You're Kakashi of the Sharingan! - Kakuzu
Love to see some Kakashi content! Before watching the video, I think 5KS Kakashi gets insanely underrated. Bro fought a Sasuke that was stronger than the one that 4th Raikage Aye fought. He was also chosen over Danzo, whose main claim to Hokage was logic and reason and not power (by his own admission, btw), this same Danzo also fought a version of Sasuke that was stronger than the one 4th Raikage Aye fought. 4th Raikage Aye himself also acknowledges he needed to take Kakashi seriously and knew of his fame
This was peak glad to see you noticed Kakashi had a mental nerf during the FKS and that Hokage Kakashi is up there wirh DMS Kakashi if not just flat out more powerful.
Great video, agree with 95% of it... Though I think the nail Kamui going unnoticed by Pain shouldn't really be considered a perception blitz. Remember Pain is just Nagato remotely controlling 6+ bodies, he's doing shit all over the village consistently. And we know Nagato also sees what his summons see, and we know he has summons out. And can see what his main body sees too. Plus all the other senses. Him not noticing something as small as a nail is reasonable. It's like shoplifting a store and stealing a pack of gum, when they have a security guard monitoring a wall of TVs with security camera feed. You didn't perception blitz the security guard, he just didn't notice a small pack of gum being stolen, because he probably doesn't care as much, he's got bigger things to worry about. And KCM Naruto in the early war is such a fluctuating power level it's really hard to quantify much, as he's constantly getting fatigued, then resolve amped and such back and forth.
Thank you for freeing us from the weakest Hokage allegations. But we really shouldn't be trusting Yamato when he said he could kill sasuke then proceeds to get blized and have his jutsu overpowered. Hell if by this definition Naruto technically didn't surpass Kakashi then he wouldn't have surpassed sasuke either
@sageofthickcalves chapter 307, Yamato notes how fast Sasuke. Whether a perception blitz or not, he is unable to block nor react to Sasuke swinging his sword at him after he tries to defend sakura. He then gets pinned to the wall and rendered unable to move by lightning current
So today I translated the whole “kids stronger than me statement and it matches up with what you said here. I still interpret Haku>Kakashi based on the blitz and Zabuza’s later statement. But the first statement shouldn’t mean crap since Kakashi hasn’t seen anything from Haku aside from him 3rd partying Zabuza
I'm at the end of the Pain arc section and I'm enjoying the video a lot so far! I will add I think Pain Arc Kakashi should be bare minimum marginally stronger than early Shippuden Kakashi because there is an implied six month time skip between Akatsuki suppression and the hunt for Itachi. In the Kazekage rescue arc it's stated Orochimaru has about six months left before he can switch bodies again. But by the time Sasuke attacks and kills Orochimaru, he was already able to switch and attempted to do it. So this implies a 6 month time skip, during which the characters, Kakashi included, could have gotten more training in.
This man had EVERY right to become rogue and no one would’ve blamed him yet he still chose to stay loyal to konoha even becoming hokage when he really didn’t want to
2:24 even before this, he created the Chidori on his own. and, when he first used it, he took out... i forget exactly. it was either 20 shadow clones of an Hidden Stone Shinobi. or 20 Hidden Stone Shinobi. and Minato made him Captain of the team whenever he wasn't around. so even pre-Sharingan Kakashi is impressive. 30:31 i personally would not put Kakashi above Rinnegan Sasuke. he's the third strongest in the village, sure. right below Naruto & Sasuke. but, Naruto and Sasuke fought a full power Jigen and then later Isshiki who outclasses Kashin Koji by a country mile. and when him and Kakashi fought, they were not going all out.
Best lightspeed kid Kakashi I can think of is the cutting lightning striking s tree feet. I mean the visible part you see and can therefore cut is the return stroke is is a third of the speed of light. And all of this was while he was exhausted, nearly out of chakra, and running all the way up a treethe moment he probably sees or anticipates a lightning strike
Thank you for making this video. I never see anyone adressing the aage gap between Obito and Kakashi and when i try to address it people come at me saying the databooks list them as the same age. It doesn't because all the information regarding their ages come from the databooks and it is clear they are different ages.
7:14 kakashi also doesnt know haku's abilities at this point either, he's just going off the fact that he took out zabuza (which was rehearsed) so even if he was implying haku was stronger than him, he'd be basing it completely off of misinformation
Just a slight correction, Kaguya getting an exponential boost isnt 10x, kaguya^2(kaguya squared) would be an exponential boost that is just Kaguya x Kaguya. So her speed and such did at least double. You were probably thinking orders of magnitude which are min 10x
@@damonwade6591 yeah, but if Kaguya is 10, then 10x10 or 10^2 is a 10x increase. You are correct, though. I definitely should’ve clarified. The reason why I went with the 10x is because the kanji used for “order of magnitude” and “exponentially” are used interchangeably A LOT in Naruto media. That’s my b for not clarifying
I don't think we can estimate Kid Kakashi’s age based on Obito’s, because Obito’s appearance-his age, skin color, face, and everything else-keeps changing. Still, Kakashi is most likely the youngest jonin, but not necessarily due to skill or experience; it was because of the wartime context. During the war, they were promoting people quickly, and Kakashi’s skill at his age was impressive, largely thanks to his father, the White Fang, who was said to be as strong as the Three Sannin. Having him as a mentor gave Kakashi a solid foundation, which helped him develop his skills early on. I also agree that Anbu Kakashi is probably one of the most underrated versions of Kakashi. His strength at that point was likely only a bit below what we saw in the war arc, or maybe even higher, as his Sharingan wasn’t as strained like in the war arc, he says that he starting to lose light. Even though many of his abilities against Kaguya came from Obito, Kakashi was able to use them effectively without any issues.
Just two things I need to address here. 1: We’re not really estimating Obito’s or Kakashi’s age here. We’re just going off of what’s most consistent with the manga and databooks, which would be that there’s a 3-4 year gap between Kakashi and Obito. I go over it in depth at the end of my Naruto Canon video. 2: Kakashi was not promoted to jonin due to war time. The only rank promotion that was stated or implied to have happened early at that time was the promotion to genin since they needed to get the academy students into training with a jonin teacher as soon as possible. It makes sense to try to rush the development of shinobi in order to have more warriors for the battlefield, but it does not make sense to promote an unqualified shinobi into a position of leadership and risk the lives of an entire shinobi team because of it. Also, the Naruto website birthday columns tell us that Kakashi was “one of the foremost shinobi in konoha” when promoted to jonin. This means he’s one of the strongest shinobi in the village, which would lend credence to the idea that he wasn’t promoted to jonin early due to war time, but rather ability.
@@sageofthickcalves At the end of the show, it’s stated that Kakashi is 30 and Obito is 31. So, it’s not even a matter of estimation-it’s right there, even though their ages were retconned multiple times. Obito’s age could have been estimated as 11, 5, or 3 years older than Kakashi at different points, but only the last estimate remained consistent and not retconned yet. So, if you’re ignoring that, it’s just false information. As for your second point-how could war not affect promotions and hirings? That makes no sense. have ever livied in the real world, war impacts everything everywhere. Obito clearly failed his genin test but was still given the rank because they were low on manpower. The Third Hokage and Minato even talk about how severely the war is affecting them and how desperate they are for soldiers, meaning they were willing to employ anyone who could help. A lot of people die in war, so with less competition for jonin positions, they promoted anyone who was close to the skill level. Kakashi’s father, the White Fang, was a big deal, known for his strength and character, which gave Kakashi a head start and influenced his reputation. To be clear, I’m not saying Kakashi wasn’t skilled or strong, he is by far one the most skilled ninjas in the show, its just that he wasn’t quite jonin level yet at that point, and was promoted a bit early. The show repeatedly shows Kakashi struggling in battles against other jonin, your just one blind mf for Ignoring the truth so often, and relying on age differences and false claims is just pathetic, because he was at best low level jonin, because naruto and saskue at the end are just 16 or 17, and they are still genin.
@ yeah the problem is that the databook 4 entry for Obito’s age is incompatible with the manga and previous databook statements. Singe the manga is the primary canon, anything that directly contradicts that in lower tiers of canon are to be considered an error. Again, I cover this in depth at the end of my Naruto Canon video. It’s FAR more consistent to say there’s a 3-4 year age gap, as the only piece of evidence against that is the databook 4 age given to Obito. I already explained this. It makes no sense to promote someone into a position of leadership early. It does make sense to promote someone into a position where they can get ready to be a solider faster. Also, again, Kakashi just being stated to be one of the foremost shinobi in konoha contributes to the idea that he’s strong enough to be a jonin, as being a “foremost” of anything means you’re one of the best. It’s indisputable that Kakashi is jonin level at that time.
@@sageofthickcalves again why do i have to tell you this? everytime kakashi fought a jonin what happend he struggled hard or almost died which proofs my point, take off those glazingans already. dont defend such clearly bad take. anbu kakashi would have been way better to glaze you kinda under glazed him, but no you decide to do this garbage about age like bro that is so cringe age in anime should never be taken srsly. yujiro hanma was born and he told his mom and dad to stop crying I rest my case.
@ Kakashi took down 18 shadow clones from a jonin while testing out his new technique. I don’t think that’s struggling. He body bagged Kakko almost instantly after getting the sharingan. That’s not struggling. He struggled a bit vs Kakko when he was half blind, but you know…he was half blind. Also, again, he’s called one of the foremost shinobi in the village, meaning he’s one of the strongest. You haven’t even addressed that because you know it’s a position that you can’t argue against 💀 As far as the age, I already showed that it’s the most consistent interpretation. You don’t have to like it, but it’s the facts.
It’s like Kakashi gave the entire Anbu unit a depression nerf when he left them. They’re all trash tier now, but used to have several arguably Kage level members.
Haku was holding back in two ways. 1: Not going into the ice mirrors immediately 2: Not going for kill shots Zabuza actually concedes that Sasuke may be Haku’s equal, but that he’d still lose in the mirrors. Zabuza also could’ve just been referring to Kakashi not being able to take down Haku after taking down Zabuza himself because of fatigue from fighting Zabuza first.
@@sageofthickcalves 1. Yes which is kind of huge to consider 2. Haku is considered a lot stronger than Zabuza multiple times and Zabuza is rivaling Kakashi. Kakashi won but he was pushed to his limits both fights
@@sageofthickcalves Also Kakashi could legit consider Haku to be above him with the statement even if the first part is wrong. Plus Haku scales to a Naruto that just has more chakra than Kakashi and is probably stronger than his part 1 kyung cloak self
@ 1: Yeah I agree…what I’m saying is that Haku is relative to Sasuke base to base, but with the mirrors he’s able to be above him. In a fight with Kakashi, you could argue that Haku is so far below him base to base that Kakashi wouldn’t even let him use the mirrors. 2: Haku is never stated to be “a lot” stronger than Zabuza, just stronger. Also, Zabuza never rivaled Kakashi in a true, standard 1v1. In the first fight, Zabuza had to use Team 7 against Kakashi to get him into a disadvantageous position. That doesn’t happen if Team 7 isn’t there. In the 2nd fight, Zabuza had Haku help him to develop a strategy to counter the sharingan, and still only landed a hit when Kakashi wanted him to so that he could mark his weapons with his blood, allowing the hounds to track him. So, Kakashi and Zabuza were never on the same level. The way I see it is Kakashi is a 100, Zabuza is an 85-90, and Haku (in the mirrors) is a 95.
@ so first, yeah you can say that Kakashi was talking about Haku, but the text itself doesn’t indicate that. You’d have to make an unfounded assumption. It’s more pragmatic to say that he was making a general statement about the shinobi world to Naruto, since Naruto was complaining about being weak. Second, Haku does not scale to that Naruto, and that Naruto does not verifiably scale above Kakashi.
5:35 isn't donzo talking about anbu Itachi and shisui being over fugaku? Especially because he would be their "boss" and know what they could do more than ever?
@sageofthickcalves no I'm asking if donzo made that statement of them being the strongest after they killed mukai? Because if it was then donzo only said that because they killed someone like mukai to his knowledge with no MS. Meaning that donzo doesn't know their full capability and is unreliable.
@ why would that mean he doesn’t know their full capabilities? If he’d have his spies gathering intel on them as well, which is actually why he finds out about the MS later.
@@sageofthickcalves yeah later. Because if the spies did see the whole fight then would they not have told donzo about shushi MS that same day? That's like if you told me to go fight a prime mike Tyson and sent someone to watch me fight him. And I win but he only seen the end of it or missed me poisoning him or something. But he doesn't really know how I won and told you that, wouldn't you have to say I'm better than Mike? At least into you find out how I really won.
Lowkey DMS Kakashi kind of just beats every version of Naruto in the entire series in a straight up 1v1 due to abilities and feats (including BM Naruto). He's just blatantly above EOS SO6P Naruto in Shippuden by a lot, blitzes Kaguya who would be comparable to Fused Momoshiki who keeps up with Naruto and Sasuke in speed as adults meaning that Adult SO6P Naruto gets blitzed or at most, Kamui'ed away, and BM Naruto has a likely lower time limit than DMS Kakashi so he could just Kamui himself away in the Kamui Dimension and chill until Naruto dies - or just use Kamui to make himself intangible, find an opening at which he can decapitate Naruto via Kamui, and win that way. He's arguably Top 1 in both Naruto and Boruto excluding Two Blue Vortex, Daemon, and Shibai because the scaling for them is kind of weird currently.
Question: If Obito didn’t have the Gold and Silver Brothers' Nine-Tails' chakra to give to the Gedo Statue for the Ten Tails' revival, he would’ve needed to find another way to obtain Nine-Tails chakra, right? And if only a piece of a Biju’s chakra is required for the Ten Tails' revival, couldn’t Obito just absorb a Supermini Biju Bomb from Biju Mode Naruto using the Gunbai fan and feed it to the Gedo Statue? The chakra absorbed by the fan doesn’t automatically convert into Wind nature; it remains in an absorbed state until the "Uchiha Reflection" technique is triggered. So, wouldn’t it be possible for Obito to store the chakra and provide it to the Gedo Statue?
@@Normal_guy9 it depends on if there’s a certain amount that’d be required, or if it has to be purely nine tails chakra. I’m not sure, but it could work
LMAO thank you for calling 00:17 out, he really has a huge boner for trashing on Kakashi have no idea why. Also CAN NEVER GET ENOUGH KAKASHI GLAZING LETSGOOOOOO
Though DMS Kakashi is quite impressive, the whole "Stronger Kaguya dunked by Kakashi" isn't really a good argument. For one, Kaguya absorbing chakra from the people stuck in genjutsu isn't some exponential amp, infact Kaguya had been constantly spamming jutsu left and right while the chakra she absorbs is really fodder in comparison, and even then the people all survive after the genjutsu is undone, not even showing any signs of "deathly low amounts" of chakra. And it's also hard to say that Kakashi's Kamui raikiri feat can be instaantly deemed "blitz tier" since he was being heavily underrrated by them and didnt expect him to be so fast and powerful...
@@UNKNOWNL3G3ND it’s stated that her power and speed had grown exponentially RIGHT BEFORE Kakashi blitzes her. This comes from Black Zetsu who’s literally attached to her when he makes that claim
@@sageofthickcalves he also downplays kakashi and gets surprised by that. its all too vague. not to mention the reasoning that he gives isnt satisfactory. he claims kaguya has been constantly absorbing chakra, but what she has been doing even more is exhausting chakra. if he's going by the fact that she was absorbing the chakra from the people stuck in the genjutsu (half of the nine tails has more quantity and quality than that), than it could either be his wrong judgement or just maybe kishimoto wasnt cooking with the powerscaling. i mean theres a lot of weird areas when it comes to Post Kaguya revival power scaling, so that doesnt mean its not a likely case. but ig thats proves us why Sakura (will of fire + outlier + acceleration due to gravity + mental amp + 5% costco member stat boost) perception blitzes naruto and sasuke gg ez cause why not 🤣🤣🤣
@@sageofthickcalves i mean i already stated the issue? does that make naruto get that much slower when he distributes his chakra? theres just overall no sense in her becoming stronger or faster after absorbing a piece of candy's worth of chakra leading to zetsu's statements to just be inaccurate, i mean he even said how kaguyas far superior to the rest
@@Espota not sure. Since he can make the quartz wall, which is considered to only be theoretically possible, as it’s literally him rearranging molecules, I’d say he SHOULD be able to apply lightning release to the rasengan. Maybe he’s just not concerned enough to.
@@sageofthickcalvesCan you expatiate on this. I'm not even sure if we could scale some genins that high tbh, genins like Lee and Neji to be exact, Gaara as well. Thanks in advance.
@@Kiyokoji23 Yeah, so we can easily get the likes of Lee and Neji > Gaara's automatic sand defense, which has been calced to a minimum of Mach 25-35. Then we have Hayate, a special jonin (ranked below full fledged jonin), blitzing Neji from across the battlefield. Obviously your standard jonin would be above that to some degree, as even Kurenai, a relatively newly promoted jonin, is able to blitz Neji there to an even crazier degree. If you look at the distance that she covered vs the distance Neji covered, we're looking at legitimately 30-40x his speed. So if you low ball Neji to Mach 25, this easily gets her above Mach 500, which is a MASSIVE low ball when you consider that she's able to somewhat react to Itachi's combat speed, and he's easily relativistic. The same thing can be applied to AP/durability as well, with Sasuke's fire ball from the bell test being able to vaporize a large area of the ground, with calcs putting it at small town level. Obviously, your average jonin will be above someone like genin Sasuke, who's just stated to have chunin level abilities.
@@sageofthickcalves thank you very much for this explanation. I really appreciate it. I really do understand now. I guess seeing some people who bring up some statement Kishimoto made about guns being some legitimate threat to the verse was what prompted me to ask this question. Do you think the Kumo jonins scaling would be reasonable or will it be a highball? Coz they can produce the laser circus and possibly react to them. The fact that samurais can also produce light speed slashes can also be considered. Can we even consider them average Jonins in the first place?
I wouldnt say Kakashi over Sasuke in the boruto era(as much as id love it) but i consider the most likely place to put him is above base Naurto, and Sasuke but below their powered up forms of ems and sage mode though not super drastically
10:50 Naruto wasn’t paying attention to him until Kakashi was right in front of him. He was looking for Deidara and we are not really sure how mindless this Naruto is considering 1 tail Naruto still has consciousness and 2 tails Naruto gets mad at remarks about Sasuke.
@ Yes but by the time Naruto notices he might not have had time to move or even wanted to move as Naruto is not completely mindless so Naruto could just be like “Oh Kakashi what are you-?” Seal
@@akasakasad6271 only indications we get for that are A) he didn’t go into his ice mirrors off rip and B) he didn’t try to kill Naruto or Sasuke, but he DID try to inflict critical wounds
@@sageofthickcalves Haku didn't go all out. This was clearly stated in the manga. He could have easily killed Sasuke if he wanted to. And I believe he was above Kakashi at that time since Kakashi had no answer to Haku's mirror technique
5:55 I have seen the video I am just very hesitant due to a number of factors including Fugaku being kage level. Plus the fact Danzo might not know Fugaku fully like his entire arsenal. It’s complicated sort of. Plus the Boruto is vague because we don’t know if the mangekyo is in fact Fugaku’s or just a small reference.
Fugaku being considered viable for that role should make him at least low kage, and the MS we see in Boruto is identical to the one we see for Fugaku in the Naruto anime, so it’s likely that it’s his. Also, Konoha has a file on it with a drawing of the design, so Danzo would definitely know about it
@@sageofthickcalves How are we sure that file was Fugaku’s though? Did it say his name or was it just a reference? Because again the file could just be an anime reference and we don’t know how old the file is so it could be around the time of the massacre.
@@sageofthickcalves 1. When was he considered viable outside the Uchihas thinking he was 2. Even if we say he did know about the mangekyo which is highly debatable he wouldn’t know how strong it is or his abilities
bro debunk what he said rn instead of saying things with no explanation or statement to back them up.the thing is they guy is right and u cant accpet that cuz u r an itachi fan who is sad that kakashi cut off tentails arm faster than minato could realize and itachi died
22:47, i feel like you’re heavily down playing nagato and itachi, base sharingan itachi was able to match KCM naruto in taijutsu, so he should be pretty comparable to kakashi w/o kamui, and with his susanoo/Ms be comparable to kamui kakashi
@ the potentially sage level amp MS would give itachi to be above KCM Naruto his relativity to early EMS sasuke who with almost no fights(or at least unquantifiable stronger than his fight with kabuto) was able to perform comparably if not better than a “KCM 1.5” Naruto who should be relative to an early KCM2 Naruto, or at least not too much weaker than a masters KCM 2 Naruto I could be high balling a bit, but it’s not too hard to argue for it
@@sageofthickcalves I personally see early EMS sasuke as a little above KCM 1.5 since he did save him against juubito a couple of times and able to balance his chakra with him when combining attacks, and KCM 1.5 is arguably comparable to early KCM 2
In my opinion Kakashi aside from Naruto and Sasuke (not considering the Boruto people) he is the strongest alive. This may be wrong, I'm not saying he is, but I see him in that range
Question sage doesn’t kakashi learn to teleport in and out of the kamui dimension in the war arc or am i misremembering something I remember him teleporting out of the dimension twice and I think I remember him teleporting him and obito into the dimension maybe im wrong I haven’t watched or read the war arc in awhile
@@SRVaris so same level? if so then your right kamui does perception blitz him. seeing as it also perception blitzed the naruto who fought against kaguya
13:13 It’s just Yamato hasn’t really seen Sasuke go all out and Kakashi is I feel not as smart Shikaku overall anyways. Sasuke overall has way higher scaling in terms of speed that I feel Yamato would not know about and the curse mark of Sasuke is implied higher than most curse mark 2 which Kakashi should not know about.
To be fair, Yamato is stated to be in the top of the ANBU, so I think his reports are trustworthy. As far as the curse mark, CM2 doesn’t give a physical amp to Sasuke, so I’m not sure it would really matter.
@ It maybe trustworthy as far as holding back Sasuke but not all out Sasuke. Also Curse mark 2 does give you at least 10 times your chakra considering the heaven seal is considered more special than the other curse seals. Not to mention Sasuke is inarguably way stronger as he broke Naruto’s arm with a wing hit despite being 1 tails I highly doubt Sasuke could do that in base hell base chidori might not be as strong as that wing hit
11:18 Maybe it’s weird because he doesn’t have any knowledge on curse mark 2 at least useful knowledge to help deduce Sasuke’s strength not to mention Sasuke barely used the sharingan and was barely trying against team 7 so maybe he can deduce something but I don’t think he could be accurate
Which Kakashi scale was your favorite and why???
@@sageofthickcalves I’ll reply when I’m finished watching the video brother Sage.
@@sageofthickcalves Early War Kakashi is my favourite scaling for a variety of reasons but specifically because his visual prowess with kamui can keep up with the velocity of kcm1 and 2 characters. Although I say that DMS Kakashi is the strongest character in the series and the most intriguing scaling.
@ 🫡
@@sageofthickcalves 🫡
@@sageofthickcalves defiently early war arc no need to explain
I feel like a lot of people who underestimate Kakashi forget about the lesson on what is chakra that was given BY SAKURA at the very start of Naruto. Chakra is made of >physical< and >spiritual energy.<
Kakashi has struggled with depression since Sakumo's death, and it got horribly worse with Obito, Rin, Minato and Kushina's deaths. And what depression does to people? It fucks up their mind. Their spirit. He found some solace in Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke (and Gai, of course) but then Sasuke going insane pushed him back into this dark hole he had barely gotten out of. He pushed through it for Naruto and Sakura, but nevertheless felt terrible, because he saw himself in Sasuke.
So, up until right before Pain's attack, Kakashi is still struggling with mental health issues and has a sharingan that sucks tons of his chakra, but he was already a living legend, even though he was hurting, and that's a fucking powerful statement to anyone suffering with mental illnesses.
I'd like to point out his fight against Kakuzu and Hidan during this period of time. For me, that is one of Kakashi's best fights, if not the best.
And then, he dies during his fight with pain. I cried oceans of bitter tears, and almost quit watching Naruto. But now i see that his encouter with Sakumo in the limbo had a pretty fucking good reason for happening. It was the true start of Kakashi's road to full emotional recovery.
So, his power up in late shippuden and during the war make quite a lot of sense. He got closure with his father, and that was one weight taken off of his heart. Not to mention he obviously kept on training like crazy during shippuden and going on missions off screen.
And then he got closure with Obito, Rin and Minato during the war. AND THEN the physical and emotional burden of the sharingan was taken off of him. AND THEN, the cherry on top: Naruto saves Sasuke.
Hokage Kakashi is a fully healed man, both emotionally and physically. His chakra levels are
boosted, no sharingan strain or spiritual pains holding him back. That's why Hokage Kakashi is the strongest version of the character, and we urgently need to see his fights in this period animated.
Kakashi is a incredible character. One of the best in anime.
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More Kakashi glaze? LET'S GOOOO!! 😱😱😱😱😱
Since when fax=glaze?
@@Viroh Glaze is not always a bad thing. 😅😅😅😅😅
@@i.q.1979 oh ok, I am not a pro in zoomer lingo
yet
@@Viroh 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you for making Hokage Kakashi look good. He’s much more powerful as Hokage than any other previous version.
@@Salomão-y6m 🙏🏼
@@sageofthickcalves 🙏🏾
Definitely not every version
Double MS Kakashi is actually crazy 😂
With the exeption of double MS kakashi who is arguably the strongest character in shipuuden. Spamming gaint kamui shuriken while making yourself intangible is just too OP.
The damage NChammer has done to the naruto community is irreversible
🤣
He has irrational anti sharingan and anti uchiha bias. Also he likes Boruto so you really shouldn’t take him seriously
I'm all for the Uchiha slander, but I hate Boruto, nc hammer also makes mistakes in his vids, time and time again.@@ChromiumCastle
@@ADM.II. ye ahe says nkakashi isnt the weakest hokage but he rated kakashi below raikages and all hokages in recent vids
@@ChromiumCastle the fuck's wrong with liking boruto? its peak right now so your literally just hating to hate
Another note for Kakashi in the Kage Summit is he might have gotten a buff from the Pain arc due to having had a talk with his father in purgatory and getting some closer, which could possibly lift some of his depression that's been nerfing him. That could also be part of the reason for his increase to the early War arc. And while this does hurt the Pain > Kakashi ~ Sasuke speed meta, I sadly do what I must and provide all I know lol.
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I thought the same thing too, that is one like there first mental weight off his shoulder
That is 100% kishimoto’s intention in putting that moment with his father in the manga.
A wild SatoriYT appears
@@jason15212 Well I wouldn't say it was meant as a scaling justification moment, I definitely think it was just some good character stuff for Kakashi from Kishimoto, but it works out that it also works for scaling.
My glorious white haired King getting the respect he deserves
THE GLORIOUS KAKASHI GLAZING CONTINUES..❤️🔥🙏🏾,APPRECIATE YOU BIG DAWG YUR TOO GOOD TO US !!!
Always spreading the Kakashi gospel!
@sageofthickcalves a true saint indeed😭😂
That 5KS kakashi scaling was Crazy. He literally compares himself to the third hokage about fighting his pupil (who kakashi trained actively and took an interest into his development and mental state more than with Naruto and Sakura). I’ve never seen the guide statement that direct confirms he has a darkness surrounding him during that fight too which adds more evidence to it.
@@spicyboi544 YESSIR 🫡
Thank you soooo much for doing this. I love seeing some love for Kakashi. I do believe Kakashi is not enough credit for his strength and this makes me very happy. Good job!
@@miwamosukito thanks for the support!
Finally someone who understands Kakashi and doesn't downplay him, thanks for this video💜💜
Thank you! It was a pleasure to make 😊
No he overhyped Kakashi. There is no way Kakashi can defeat Hashirama or even Madara
@ DMS Kakashi and Hokage Kakashi slam Madara and Hashirama simultaneously 💀
YESSS KAKASHI THE GOAT, not only underrated in powerscaling but also in terms of writing and character development
i love kakashi and he's my favorite caracter. i think that the problem he suffer is that kishimoto just used kakashi as a benchmark for other, but he needed to stick to the history, so he has be become more and more strong to keep up
Yeah I honestly think that's why we see so much correction coming post-series. Kishimoto clearly intended for Kakashi to be one of the strongest in the verse, but he had to put him up against a lot of characters who were also super strong.
Now we wait for the DMS Kakashi vs Hokage Kakashi video
Thank you for this video my white hair goat is really powerful ❤️
Anytime 🫡
Bros skill alone carried him in a 2v1 against an immortal and a mf that miraculously survived an encounter with Hashirama fucking Senju😂😂😂
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Thank you big dog. Needed this. Long live Kakashi Hatake.
@@musicoruu yessir! 🔥
Outside of the haku and kaguya stuff, which i think there's a lot if context for both. I think this is pretty solid, maybe some minor stuff that could be debated but very well researched.
Kakashi is my favorite character from this series, Its nice seeing a video give him justice
💯
One point regarding KCM Naruto vs the Jinchuriki is that he was visibly uncoordinated throughout the fight before he went KCM2, even the V2 Jinchuriki concentrating their attacks at him and jumping him together, all while he was not at full power...
Best Kakashi video I’ve seen, and he’s STILL underrated!!
@@treb2915 thanks brother!
Let’s start the glaze the rightful glaze my man Kakashi is underrated! Thanks for the video Sage.
@@Salomão-y6m no problem brother! Hope you enjoy 🫡
@ I’m enjoying the video very much by the time I’m done I will reply to your question: which version you spoke about is my favourite.
Currently watching ill leave my opinion after so far 🔥🔥
your so right hashirama vs kakashi isnt fair kakashi takes highish diff at most
6:00 Something that's overlooked, Itachi warned Kisame not to engage part 1 Kakashi in combat, yet had no problem watching rain fall as Kisame captured Four-Tails (Chapter 353, page 3), implying that Itachi considered part 1 Kakashi to be a greater threat than a considerably experienced Biju host, which speaks volumes. Itachi also considered Kakashi a greater threat than Orochimau. A younger Itachi defeated Oro in seconds with a three tomoe Sharingan Genjutsu & took his arm, whereas in order to take down Kakashi he felt pressured to brute force a win with MS Genjutsu.
Part 1 Kakashi implied that he had the power to take down Orochimaru irrespective of his Sanin status (Chapter 70, page 1). However, in order to instil fear in Kakashi, causing him to second guess his capabilities, Orochimaru used a Genjutsu to have him imagine his death (head being cut off) Chapter 70, page 3. He did the same to Sasuke & Sakura in the forest of death, except they had Kunai sticking through their heads. Sasuke described it to be an illusion/Genjustu (Chapter 47, page 9). They didn’t show Kakashi’s sliced head in the anime for some reason, probably to keep it PG. Anyway, he wasn’t afraid of Orochimaru, After the Genjutsu wore off, Kakashi was prepared to encounter Orochimaru again incase he sought after Sasuke for another round who was on bed rest, but it happened to be Kabuto instead (Chapter 88). Kakashi felt fully capable that he could handle Orochimaru without the need to report back to Hiruzen, which gives some credence to databook 1 confirming that he was Konoha's strongest ninja.
11:58 Also, Yamato considered himself vastly inferior to Kakashi when filling in for him as team 7's captain (Chapter 284, page 15). And there's no indication that he knew Kakashi could use Kamui at that given time since he was away on ANBU duty all those years. Yet that same Yamato was confident that if he stopped holding back so much, he'd be able to neutralize Hebi Sasuke. That said, according to Yamato -- Early shippuden Kakashi (without Kamui) >> Yamato > base Hebi Sasuke.
14:17 He could've wiped out the Deva path in a literal second. He caught the Deva path completely off-guard upon his arrival, yet instead of blitzing the Deva with Lightning blade like he did Kakuzu, he grabbed his chakra receiver instead (clear nerf to provoke a battle).
Besides that, durability is the lifeblood of a shinobi's strength and despite your scaling being superb, it's a shame that you didn't take Kakashi's into account. During his fight against Kakuzu and Hidan, he managed to tank a wind style jutsu so powerful that it swept away the surrounding forest in one clean blow (Chapter 334, page 11-12). Hidan was expected to tank the jutsu because he's immortal, Kakashi wasn't, which means his durability is comparable to that of an immortals which is insane. He was also remarked to be the only shinobi who survived that attack despite Kakuzu and Hidan previously defeating a fully transformed Nibi (two-tails) off-screen. And against Pain, he tanked a total of *three* shinra Tensei, the last of which generated enough force to wipe out a man of Choza's size completely.
During the war arc, he tanked his abdomen being sliced by Zabuza's Kubikiribocho, tanked being stabbed and sliced by Obito's fuma shuriken repeatedly leaving him with massive lacerations (Chapter 608) and tanked some of Minato's Senjutsu amped Rasengan prior to whisking it away with Kamui (Chapter 677, page 7). Chakra massively enhances durability levels, so he should be significantly more durable in the Boruto Era (without the chakra eating Sharingan).
Lastly, during the Early war arc segment, it suffices to say that Kakashi was adamant in his ability to wipe out *Five* Tailed-Beast bombs via Kamui (Chapter 571, page 2). And we can safely rely on his judgement because upon seeing Kaguya's massive truth-seeker orb that was about to swallow up her dimension, Kakashi professed that he wouldn't be able to warp an object that sizeable despite having dual MS, meaning he knows Kamui's boundaries extensively yet was still confident in his ability to erase Five beast bombs. To put that into perspective, teen Minato, Jiraiya and a few other shinobi quickly retreated upon encountering just two Tailed-Beast bombs (Chapter 700.5).
For late war arc Kakashi's scaling, you should've mentioned that he was confident in his ability to erase the entire Ten-tails (Chapter 628, page 12) and was gonna erase it with Kamui until Obito quickly intercepted him. Obito intercepting him indicates that he thought Kakashi could pull it off. Keep in mind that this same Ten-tails that gave the entire shinobi alliance the hardest time of their lives (including the Edo Hokage later) was about to be put down with a single one of Kakashi's ocular jutsu. Subtly implying that he was the single most deadly shinobi on the battle field until Obito became Juubi's jinchuriki host.
Top tier scaling video nonetheless. In my opinion, you make Swagkage look like a joke comparatively.
Shisui appreciation followed by kakashi appreciation, sage doing Gods work
@@Reggin_ald 🫡
Completely agree with your point about him being stronger than haku. pre chunin exam sasuke tagged him Multiple times. There’s no way he’s not getting negged by kakashi. Also kakashi killed him… TWICE!
Well to be fair, haku didnt really want to kill sasuke, and getting beat by kyubi amped kid naruto isnt an anti feat as in part one kyubi amp was insane.
Kakashi being weaker than haku at that point in time is not an anti feat either, haku was ridiculously strong, and he did managed to blitz kakashi mid raikiri to save zabuza.
I just think its a case of the story having a significantly lower powerceiling early on, to the point that characters like haku and kimimaro, who were initially presented as anomalies in terms of power and potential now seem like fodder.
The goat is back and cooking!
Never gave the Haku argument much thought. Nice job debunking it!
I feel you could've made a stronger case for Part 1 Kakashi by bringing up the fanbook statement ("anyone going up against him risks death", and that was about pre-retraining Kakashi), and Kabuto's performance against Tsunade. Also, at 9:00 Kakashi outright states that he considers himself strong enough to take down a Sannin. A pre-retraining, Sharingan-covered Kakashi. I see no reason why a post-retraining Kakashi with Sharingan would be "vaguely below the Sannin" (base Sannin, that is), maybe except Orochimaru.
11:01-12:00 Awesome find!
There's also an interesting bit of dialogue during team Kakashi's fight with Itachi's clone, where Kakashi says that he "probably" can't take on Itachi alone. Meaning early Shippuden Kakashi thinks himself capable of _potentially_ beating Part 1 Itachi.
I mean, Jiraiya didn't think himself capable of beating in-base Animal Path alone. Furthermore, Kakashi being Konoha's top dog (pre-Sage Mode Naruto, obviously) is reaffirmed by the Third Databook, putting him above base Naruto, Gai, and Tsunade. Also, where do you get the suppressed Pain part from?
15:55 another great find! Btw. would you consider making a 5KS Kakashi vs Danzo video? After all, Danzo snuffed the Hokage title from Kakashi back then xD
18:53 damn, that birthday column is a gift that keeps on giving!
19:04 and that is a tired Kakashi after his battles with the Seven Swordsmen. The same guys who prompted Might Dai to go for the Eighth Gate immediately, without even bothering with the Seventh Gate.
24:00 Throw in Kamui blitzing KCM Minato's perception when Kakashi attempted to Kamui Gedo Mazo.
28:33 Damn...
Excellent video, as usual. Your editing and argumentation are Otsutsuki-tier. Keep it up!
@@mc_rysiek5277 thanks for the love, brother!
@@sageofthickcalves Pain arc Kakashi can be safely scaled over Tendo, as Nagato saw fitting to send Asura as a backup. This is pretty crazy, seeing as a CST-weakened Tendo was still able to react to Sage Naruto's kick.
When I watched the Og Naruto for first time Kakashi was my favorite and still is great video
@@TheRavishingOne thank you!
Kakashi is my goat & for some reason is criminally underrated throughout the whole series somehow 🗣️🗣️. It’s like after part 1 people in general just started to sleep on him idgi
Spittin
Yay! I always love listening about the man ✨️🤍
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9:00 Kakashi kinda implies that he could’ve straight up killed Orochimaru saying “The man I am today can take you down!”
16:24 I love this fan animation so much
Which fan animation?
@@Mlenge-l3n Sasuke vs Kakashi
A kid kakashi in the valley of the end would scenario be greatly appreciated!
@@lazairance bet
@@sageofthickcalves bruh how didn’t you have a stroke reading that comment. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
10:46 A thing to keep in mind here is that Naruto is still somewhat in control of himself and keeping the chakra suppressed...
7:12 Imo I think this statement is actually referring to Itachi, or at least that’s who I think Kakashi had in mind at the time
Totally agree. Could also be referring to himself at 12 tbh
@@sageofthickcalves for that to happen, 12yo Kakashi who can't even use chidori properly have to be stronger than This Adult Kakashi. Which doesn't even make sense.
So No.
That statement was not reffering to a young version of himself.
@ Kakashi joined the ANBU at 12. He already had the sharingan and had been a jonin for 2-3 years.
@sageofthickcalves Didn't Kakashi become a jonin same time when Obito became a Chunin !?
And being Jonin at that time doesn't mean he was Well into Jonin lvl.
That was war time. The screening process wouldn't be as strict later ones
@ ok two things
1: Kakashi became a jonin right before Kannabi Bridge. Obito was 13 at Kannabi Bridge, but became a Chunin 2 years prior, at 11 years old. Since there’s a 4-ish year gap between Kakashi and Obito, as they graduated together at 5 and 9.
2: There’s no evidence that the criteria for becoming a JONIN was lower, only graduating the academy is stated to have been expedited. There’s no real reason to promote him to jonin early if he’s not already jonin level. In fact, it would be disadvantageous, whereas graduating people early in order to develop them faster and get them ready to join the battlefield makes practical sense.
3: Kakashi body bags Kakko, someone who’s called an “extremely powerful” jonin. This verifiably gets Kakashi firmly into the jonin tier.
people find it easy to accept shikamaru doing big brains plays in vs battles, but always wanna argue if you say Kakashi will do the same zzz
@@spit-fire spittin
i really needed this today thank u bro
You're welcome 🙏🏼
Kakashi can pretty reasonably be put on the tier of adult rinnegan sasuke maybe even stronger, as there is another statement within the novel stating his feat is only replicable by the adult Naruto and adult sasuke. It’s good to note hokage Kakashi is one of few who has yin Yang release. To put into perspective the same rinnegan sasuke thinks he can take down kaguya threats without much issue, Kakashi also stated he’s orders of magnitudes stronger than he was in the war. So he should easily be in the ostuski combatant range
The crazy thing is, Kakashi has yet to debut in the boruto manga, and the creator said Kakashi will play a extremely important role in the future, so this guy could potentially make his rerun even more busted than our estimate. Who’s knows what kind of training or things this guy has done throughout the time has hasn’t appeared, note how crazy this is, boruto in blue vortex effortlessly defeated no limiter code who stronger than jigen who then folded Naruto and sasuke, and effortlessly defeated hidari who’s stronger than full power adult sasuke. So people who are sasuke tier aren’t even that relevant or hyper impressive in blue vortex, so it’s hard to imagine what kind of power Kakashi would show up with to be a extremely important figure in the series moving forward stated by the author.
It’s a shame a creator with a big following like NChammer put Kakashi in such bad light portraying him as someone weaker than tsunade or itachi
@3:30 :It's just like your nickname sensei - Kakashi
@13:30 : But how?! I didn't even sense your approach. You were able to read... and interpret my signs...so quickly. And your mastery of lightning style jutsu? Thats it! You're Kakashi of the Sharingan! - Kakuzu
THE GOAT
Love to see some Kakashi content!
Before watching the video, I think 5KS Kakashi gets insanely underrated. Bro fought a Sasuke that was stronger than the one that 4th Raikage Aye fought. He was also chosen over Danzo, whose main claim to Hokage was logic and reason and not power (by his own admission, btw), this same Danzo also fought a version of Sasuke that was stronger than the one 4th Raikage Aye fought. 4th Raikage Aye himself also acknowledges he needed to take Kakashi seriously and knew of his fame
@@CH1C4N0444 w take
This was peak glad to see you noticed Kakashi had a mental nerf during the FKS and that Hokage Kakashi is up there wirh DMS Kakashi if not just flat out more powerful.
Great video, agree with 95% of it... Though I think the nail Kamui going unnoticed by Pain shouldn't really be considered a perception blitz. Remember Pain is just Nagato remotely controlling 6+ bodies, he's doing shit all over the village consistently. And we know Nagato also sees what his summons see, and we know he has summons out. And can see what his main body sees too. Plus all the other senses. Him not noticing something as small as a nail is reasonable. It's like shoplifting a store and stealing a pack of gum, when they have a security guard monitoring a wall of TVs with security camera feed. You didn't perception blitz the security guard, he just didn't notice a small pack of gum being stolen, because he probably doesn't care as much, he's got bigger things to worry about.
And KCM Naruto in the early war is such a fluctuating power level it's really hard to quantify much, as he's constantly getting fatigued, then resolve amped and such back and forth.
Actually very well researched. I didnt think early war kakashi could 1v1 itachi, but you made excellent points
Thank you!
Thank you for freeing us from the weakest Hokage allegations.
But we really shouldn't be trusting Yamato when he said he could kill sasuke then proceeds to get blized and have his jutsu overpowered.
Hell if by this definition Naruto technically didn't surpass Kakashi then he wouldn't have surpassed sasuke either
Yamato didn’t get blitzed
@sageofthickcalves chapter 307, Yamato notes how fast Sasuke. Whether a perception blitz or not, he is unable to block nor react to Sasuke swinging his sword at him after he tries to defend sakura. He then gets pinned to the wall and rendered unable to move by lightning current
@@jiero3253to be fair, Yamato is able to block, he just uses the incorrect block
@@jiero3253 Yamato was able to block and Sasuke compliments him on such but his lightning amped grass cutter can't be blocked.
@@jiero3253 what Jackson said
@Sage of thick calves•
I need some killer B glaze rn.
Bet
So today I translated the whole “kids stronger than me statement and it matches up with what you said here. I still interpret Haku>Kakashi based on the blitz and Zabuza’s later statement. But the first statement shouldn’t mean crap since Kakashi hasn’t seen anything from Haku aside from him 3rd partying Zabuza
IT’S TIME 🔥🔥🔥
I'm at the end of the Pain arc section and I'm enjoying the video a lot so far! I will add I think Pain Arc Kakashi should be bare minimum marginally stronger than early Shippuden Kakashi because there is an implied six month time skip between Akatsuki suppression and the hunt for Itachi. In the Kazekage rescue arc it's stated Orochimaru has about six months left before he can switch bodies again. But by the time Sasuke attacks and kills Orochimaru, he was already able to switch and attempted to do it. So this implies a 6 month time skip, during which the characters, Kakashi included, could have gotten more training in.
I can’t wait to see how people try to discredit these valid and accurate points
@@jason15212 🫡
Please make a video on hypothetical. How much powerful would DMS Obito would've been??
Interesting video👍🏾
@@laskurtanceixixii thanks!
This the strongest thumbnail gets used for everybody and they granny fr💀
He can one shot any normal ninja meaning if you don't have broken healing or require a heart to live he can one shot you
Great video, happy ny
@@NeithKraft thank you! Happy new year to you as well
This man had EVERY right to become rogue and no one would’ve blamed him yet he still chose to stay loyal to konoha even becoming hokage when he really didn’t want to
W
2:24 even before this, he created the Chidori on his own. and, when he first used it, he took out... i forget exactly. it was either 20 shadow clones of an Hidden Stone Shinobi. or 20 Hidden Stone Shinobi. and Minato made him Captain of the team whenever he wasn't around. so even pre-Sharingan Kakashi is impressive.
30:31 i personally would not put Kakashi above Rinnegan Sasuke. he's the third strongest in the village, sure. right below Naruto & Sasuke. but, Naruto and Sasuke fought a full power Jigen and then later Isshiki who outclasses Kashin Koji by a country mile. and when him and Kakashi fought, they were not going all out.
Kakashi the 🐐
Best lightspeed kid Kakashi I can think of is the cutting lightning striking s tree feet. I mean the visible part you see and can therefore cut is the return stroke is is a third of the speed of light. And all of this was while he was exhausted, nearly out of chakra, and running all the way up a treethe moment he probably sees or anticipates a lightning strike
Thank you for making this video. I never see anyone adressing the aage gap between Obito and Kakashi and when i try to address it people come at me saying the databooks list them as the same age. It doesn't because all the information regarding their ages come from the databooks and it is clear they are different ages.
@@adamdonovan7269 thanks for the love! Check out my Naruto Canon Explained video. I talk about it at the end of that vid 🙏🏼
@sageofthickcalves Will do man. Keep up the good work.
@ thanks brother! Will do 🫡
The thing is that you could wank DMS Kakashi to unknown heights, that can basically make him THE STRONGEST!
@@UNKNOWNL3G3ND w
Kakashi is him
@@abk.gmt713 w
7:14 kakashi also doesnt know haku's abilities at this point either, he's just going off the fact that he took out zabuza (which was rehearsed) so even if he was implying haku was stronger than him, he'd be basing it completely off of misinformation
YES THANK U I don't know why people started believing Kakashi is some bum ... like god let's leave these people in 2024
@@antonio19xy 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Sage stays servin🔥🥶
🍛
Gotta go with Anbu Kakashi as my favorite. The dude is just a menace.
@@StevenFrazier5 🔥
Love to see some will done Naruto content
Don't have much these days
🫡
We need hashirama glaze video asap 🙏
@@akiraman7664 bet
Just a slight correction, Kaguya getting an exponential boost isnt 10x, kaguya^2(kaguya squared) would be an exponential boost that is just Kaguya x Kaguya. So her speed and such did at least double. You were probably thinking orders of magnitude which are min 10x
@@damonwade6591 yeah, but if Kaguya is 10, then 10x10 or 10^2 is a 10x increase. You are correct, though. I definitely should’ve clarified. The reason why I went with the 10x is because the kanji used for “order of magnitude” and “exponentially” are used interchangeably A LOT in Naruto media. That’s my b for not clarifying
@@sageofthickcalves nah thats fair, i just think saying kaguya x kaguya at a minimum(which is still bonkers) is just the safest. Great video!
@ thanks bro!
I don't think we can estimate Kid Kakashi’s age based on Obito’s, because Obito’s appearance-his age, skin color, face, and everything else-keeps changing. Still, Kakashi is most likely the youngest jonin, but not necessarily due to skill or experience; it was because of the wartime context. During the war, they were promoting people quickly, and Kakashi’s skill at his age was impressive, largely thanks to his father, the White Fang, who was said to be as strong as the Three Sannin. Having him as a mentor gave Kakashi a solid foundation, which helped him develop his skills early on.
I also agree that Anbu Kakashi is probably one of the most underrated versions of Kakashi. His strength at that point was likely only a bit below what we saw in the war arc, or maybe even higher, as his Sharingan wasn’t as strained like in the war arc, he says that he starting to lose light. Even though many of his abilities against Kaguya came from Obito, Kakashi was able to use them effectively without any issues.
Just two things I need to address here.
1: We’re not really estimating Obito’s or Kakashi’s age here. We’re just going off of what’s most consistent with the manga and databooks, which would be that there’s a 3-4 year gap between Kakashi and Obito. I go over it in depth at the end of my Naruto Canon video.
2: Kakashi was not promoted to jonin due to war time. The only rank promotion that was stated or implied to have happened early at that time was the promotion to genin since they needed to get the academy students into training with a jonin teacher as soon as possible. It makes sense to try to rush the development of shinobi in order to have more warriors for the battlefield, but it does not make sense to promote an unqualified shinobi into a position of leadership and risk the lives of an entire shinobi team because of it. Also, the Naruto website birthday columns tell us that Kakashi was “one of the foremost shinobi in konoha” when promoted to jonin. This means he’s one of the strongest shinobi in the village, which would lend credence to the idea that he wasn’t promoted to jonin early due to war time, but rather ability.
@@sageofthickcalves At the end of the show, it’s stated that Kakashi is 30 and Obito is 31. So, it’s not even a matter of estimation-it’s right there, even though their ages were retconned multiple times. Obito’s age could have been estimated as 11, 5, or 3 years older than Kakashi at different points, but only the last estimate remained consistent and not retconned yet. So, if you’re ignoring that, it’s just false information.
As for your second point-how could war not affect promotions and hirings? That makes no sense. have ever livied in the real world, war impacts everything everywhere. Obito clearly failed his genin test but was still given the rank because they were low on manpower. The Third Hokage and Minato even talk about how severely the war is affecting them and how desperate they are for soldiers, meaning they were willing to employ anyone who could help. A lot of people die in war, so with less competition for jonin positions, they promoted anyone who was close to the skill level. Kakashi’s father, the White Fang, was a big deal, known for his strength and character, which gave Kakashi a head start and influenced his reputation.
To be clear, I’m not saying Kakashi wasn’t skilled or strong, he is by far one the most skilled ninjas in the show, its just that he wasn’t quite jonin level yet at that point, and was promoted a bit early. The show repeatedly shows Kakashi struggling in battles against other jonin, your just one blind mf for Ignoring the truth so often, and relying on age differences and false claims is just pathetic, because he was at best low level jonin, because naruto and saskue at the end are just 16 or 17, and they are still genin.
@ yeah the problem is that the databook 4 entry for Obito’s age is incompatible with the manga and previous databook statements. Singe the manga is the primary canon, anything that directly contradicts that in lower tiers of canon are to be considered an error. Again, I cover this in depth at the end of my Naruto Canon video. It’s FAR more consistent to say there’s a 3-4 year age gap, as the only piece of evidence against that is the databook 4 age given to Obito.
I already explained this. It makes no sense to promote someone into a position of leadership early. It does make sense to promote someone into a position where they can get ready to be a solider faster. Also, again, Kakashi just being stated to be one of the foremost shinobi in konoha contributes to the idea that he’s strong enough to be a jonin, as being a “foremost” of anything means you’re one of the best. It’s indisputable that Kakashi is jonin level at that time.
@@sageofthickcalves again why do i have to tell you this? everytime kakashi fought a jonin what happend he struggled hard or almost died which proofs my point, take off those glazingans already. dont defend such clearly bad take. anbu kakashi would have been way better to glaze you kinda under glazed him, but no you decide to do this garbage about age like bro that is so cringe age in anime should never be taken srsly. yujiro hanma was born and he told his mom and dad to stop crying I rest my case.
@ Kakashi took down 18 shadow clones from a jonin while testing out his new technique. I don’t think that’s struggling. He body bagged Kakko almost instantly after getting the sharingan. That’s not struggling. He struggled a bit vs Kakko when he was half blind, but you know…he was half blind. Also, again, he’s called one of the foremost shinobi in the village, meaning he’s one of the strongest. You haven’t even addressed that because you know it’s a position that you can’t argue against 💀 As far as the age, I already showed that it’s the most consistent interpretation. You don’t have to like it, but it’s the facts.
It’s like Kakashi gave the entire Anbu unit a depression nerf when he left them. They’re all trash tier now, but used to have several arguably Kage level members.
7:40 Haku is literally holding back though and Zabuza was confident Haku could beat Kakashi and Zabuza is not an idiot.
Haku was holding back in two ways.
1: Not going into the ice mirrors immediately
2: Not going for kill shots
Zabuza actually concedes that Sasuke may be Haku’s equal, but that he’d still lose in the mirrors.
Zabuza also could’ve just been referring to Kakashi not being able to take down Haku after taking down Zabuza himself because of fatigue from fighting Zabuza first.
@@sageofthickcalves 1. Yes which is kind of huge to consider
2. Haku is considered a lot stronger than Zabuza multiple times and Zabuza is rivaling Kakashi. Kakashi won but he was pushed to his limits both fights
@@sageofthickcalves Also Kakashi could legit consider Haku to be above him with the statement even if the first part is wrong. Plus Haku scales to a Naruto that just has more chakra than Kakashi and is probably stronger than his part 1 kyung cloak self
@ 1: Yeah I agree…what I’m saying is that Haku is relative to Sasuke base to base, but with the mirrors he’s able to be above him. In a fight with Kakashi, you could argue that Haku is so far below him base to base that Kakashi wouldn’t even let him use the mirrors.
2: Haku is never stated to be “a lot” stronger than Zabuza, just stronger. Also, Zabuza never rivaled Kakashi in a true, standard 1v1. In the first fight, Zabuza had to use Team 7 against Kakashi to get him into a disadvantageous position. That doesn’t happen if Team 7 isn’t there. In the 2nd fight, Zabuza had Haku help him to develop a strategy to counter the sharingan, and still only landed a hit when Kakashi wanted him to so that he could mark his weapons with his blood, allowing the hounds to track him. So, Kakashi and Zabuza were never on the same level. The way I see it is Kakashi is a 100, Zabuza is an 85-90, and Haku (in the mirrors) is a 95.
@ so first, yeah you can say that Kakashi was talking about Haku, but the text itself doesn’t indicate that. You’d have to make an unfounded assumption. It’s more pragmatic to say that he was making a general statement about the shinobi world to Naruto, since Naruto was complaining about being weak.
Second, Haku does not scale to that Naruto, and that Naruto does not verifiably scale above Kakashi.
5:35 isn't donzo talking about anbu Itachi and shisui being over fugaku? Especially because he would be their "boss" and know what they could do more than ever?
@@blackflames1994 this is right after Itachi joins the ANBU and a bit before Shisui does
@sageofthickcalves no I'm asking if donzo made that statement of them being the strongest after they killed mukai? Because if it was then donzo only said that because they killed someone like mukai to his knowledge with no MS. Meaning that donzo doesn't know their full capability and is unreliable.
@@sageofthickcalves just to be as clear as possible. Is it not anbu Itachi (when under kakashi) < shushi (no MS)
@ why would that mean he doesn’t know their full capabilities? If he’d have his spies gathering intel on them as well, which is actually why he finds out about the MS later.
@@sageofthickcalves yeah later. Because if the spies did see the whole fight then would they not have told donzo about shushi MS that same day? That's like if you told me to go fight a prime mike Tyson and sent someone to watch me fight him. And I win but he only seen the end of it or missed me poisoning him or something. But he doesn't really know how I won and told you that, wouldn't you have to say I'm better than Mike? At least into you find out how I really won.
Lowkey DMS Kakashi kind of just beats every version of Naruto in the entire series in a straight up 1v1 due to abilities and feats (including BM Naruto). He's just blatantly above EOS SO6P Naruto in Shippuden by a lot, blitzes Kaguya who would be comparable to Fused Momoshiki who keeps up with Naruto and Sasuke in speed as adults meaning that Adult SO6P Naruto gets blitzed or at most, Kamui'ed away, and BM Naruto has a likely lower time limit than DMS Kakashi so he could just Kamui himself away in the Kamui Dimension and chill until Naruto dies - or just use Kamui to make himself intangible, find an opening at which he can decapitate Naruto via Kamui, and win that way.
He's arguably Top 1 in both Naruto and Boruto excluding Two Blue Vortex, Daemon, and Shibai because the scaling for them is kind of weird currently.
Question: If Obito didn’t have the Gold and Silver Brothers' Nine-Tails' chakra to give to the Gedo Statue for the Ten Tails' revival, he would’ve needed to find another way to obtain Nine-Tails chakra, right? And if only a piece of a Biju’s chakra is required for the Ten Tails' revival, couldn’t Obito just absorb a Supermini Biju Bomb from Biju Mode Naruto using the Gunbai fan and feed it to the Gedo Statue? The chakra absorbed by the fan doesn’t automatically convert into Wind nature; it remains in an absorbed state until the "Uchiha Reflection" technique is triggered. So, wouldn’t it be possible for Obito to store the chakra and provide it to the Gedo Statue?
@@Normal_guy9 it depends on if there’s a certain amount that’d be required, or if it has to be purely nine tails chakra. I’m not sure, but it could work
Very peak video my video only went over part 1😭
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
@@sageofthickcalves by any chance you got a cord I would love to discuss Naruto with you and get some tips I just started out doing videos
@ here’s my server brother: discord.gg/BvfA7zBH
@@sageofthickcalves oh shit I gotchu gang
PREACH THE KAKASHI GOSPEL LETS GOOOO
LMAO thank you for calling 00:17 out, he really has a huge boner for trashing on Kakashi have no idea why. Also CAN NEVER GET ENOUGH KAKASHI GLAZING LETSGOOOOOO
Super sagetastic vid
Best compliment I’ve seen
@@sageofthickcalves only natural for one of the goats
Though DMS Kakashi is quite impressive, the whole "Stronger Kaguya dunked by Kakashi" isn't really a good argument. For one, Kaguya absorbing chakra from the people stuck in genjutsu isn't some exponential amp, infact Kaguya had been constantly spamming jutsu left and right while the chakra she absorbs is really fodder in comparison, and even then the people all survive after the genjutsu is undone, not even showing any signs of "deathly low amounts" of chakra. And it's also hard to say that Kakashi's Kamui raikiri feat can be instaantly deemed "blitz tier" since he was being heavily underrrated by them and didnt expect him to be so fast and powerful...
@@UNKNOWNL3G3ND it’s stated that her power and speed had grown exponentially RIGHT BEFORE Kakashi blitzes her. This comes from Black Zetsu who’s literally attached to her when he makes that claim
@@sageofthickcalves he also downplays kakashi and gets surprised by that. its all too vague. not to mention the reasoning that he gives isnt satisfactory. he claims kaguya has been constantly absorbing chakra, but what she has been doing even more is exhausting chakra. if he's going by the fact that she was absorbing the chakra from the people stuck in the genjutsu (half of the nine tails has more quantity and quality than that), than it could either be his wrong judgement or just maybe kishimoto wasnt cooking with the powerscaling.
i mean theres a lot of weird areas when it comes to Post Kaguya revival power scaling, so that doesnt mean its not a likely case.
but ig thats proves us why Sakura (will of fire + outlier + acceleration due to gravity + mental amp + 5% costco member stat boost) perception blitzes naruto and sasuke gg ez cause why not 🤣🤣🤣
@ brother, Kaguya is exponentially faster than she was prior to absorbing that chakra. This is a fact. There’s no way around it
@@sageofthickcalves i mean i already stated the issue? does that make naruto get that much slower when he distributes his chakra? theres just overall no sense in her becoming stronger or faster after absorbing a piece of candy's worth of chakra leading to zetsu's statements to just be inaccurate, i mean he even said how kaguyas far superior to the rest
@ however you want to slice it, it’s just stated that she’s exponentially faster and stronger. There’s no way around that statement.
Why can't hokage kakashi apply lightening to the rasengan at this point?
@@Espota not sure. Since he can make the quartz wall, which is considered to only be theoretically possible, as it’s literally him rearranging molecules, I’d say he SHOULD be able to apply lightning release to the rasengan. Maybe he’s just not concerned enough to.
Great video bro.
I do have a question tho, where do you think average jonins or average shinobis in general scale??
Thanks brother! Your average jonin is massively hypersonic+ with small town + levels of AP/durability
@@sageofthickcalvesCan you expatiate on this.
I'm not even sure if we could scale some genins that high tbh, genins like Lee and Neji to be exact, Gaara as well.
Thanks in advance.
@@Kiyokoji23 Yeah, so we can easily get the likes of Lee and Neji > Gaara's automatic sand defense, which has been calced to a minimum of Mach 25-35. Then we have Hayate, a special jonin (ranked below full fledged jonin), blitzing Neji from across the battlefield. Obviously your standard jonin would be above that to some degree, as even Kurenai, a relatively newly promoted jonin, is able to blitz Neji there to an even crazier degree. If you look at the distance that she covered vs the distance Neji covered, we're looking at legitimately 30-40x his speed. So if you low ball Neji to Mach 25, this easily gets her above Mach 500, which is a MASSIVE low ball when you consider that she's able to somewhat react to Itachi's combat speed, and he's easily relativistic. The same thing can be applied to AP/durability as well, with Sasuke's fire ball from the bell test being able to vaporize a large area of the ground, with calcs putting it at small town level. Obviously, your average jonin will be above someone like genin Sasuke, who's just stated to have chunin level abilities.
@@sageofthickcalves thank you very much for this explanation.
I really appreciate it.
I really do understand now.
I guess seeing some people who bring up some statement Kishimoto made about guns being some legitimate threat to the verse was what prompted me to ask this question.
Do you think the Kumo jonins scaling would be reasonable or will it be a highball?
Coz they can produce the laser circus and possibly react to them.
The fact that samurais can also produce light speed slashes can also be considered.
Can we even consider them average Jonins in the first place?
@ no problem bro! Yeah I think Kumo jonin are relative to Konoha jonin
I wouldnt say Kakashi over Sasuke in the boruto era(as much as id love it) but i consider the most likely place to put him is above base Naurto, and Sasuke but below their powered up forms of ems and sage mode though not super drastically
@@damonwade6591 I agree 🔥
10:50 Naruto wasn’t paying attention to him until Kakashi was right in front of him. He was looking for Deidara and we are not really sure how mindless this Naruto is considering 1 tail Naruto still has consciousness and 2 tails Naruto gets mad at remarks about Sasuke.
There’s an exclamation mark by Naruto before Kakashi completes his last jump, so he notices him for sure
@ Yes but by the time Naruto notices he might not have had time to move or even wanted to move as Naruto is not completely mindless so Naruto could just be like “Oh Kakashi what are you-?” Seal
Dang it, too late
7:54 wasn’t Haku not going all out on them specifically?
@@akasakasad6271 only indications we get for that are
A) he didn’t go into his ice mirrors off rip and
B) he didn’t try to kill Naruto or Sasuke, but he DID try to inflict critical wounds
@@sageofthickcalves Haku didn't go all out. This was clearly stated in the manga. He could have easily killed Sasuke if he wanted to. And I believe he was above Kakashi at that time since Kakashi had no answer to Haku's mirror technique
@ I already explained the 2 ways Haku held back. Neither of them change the scaling
Kakashi and underrated in the same sentence is Wild 💀
i debate normally in this community and nearly everyone i debate has no idea where hokage kakashi scales. so yes hes underrated
Fr
@@derekseago9647 Hokage Kakashi does not exactly have any feats in the manga or anime.
Other Versions of Kakashi are overrated themselves
This entire video Sage goes over why Kakashi is underrated 💀
I go over Kakashi's feats from the anime in this video brother
Now make a Zabuza vs Hidan video
Bet
5:55 I have seen the video I am just very hesitant due to a number of factors including Fugaku being kage level. Plus the fact Danzo might not know Fugaku fully like his entire arsenal. It’s complicated sort of. Plus the Boruto is vague because we don’t know if the mangekyo is in fact Fugaku’s or just a small reference.
He definitely doesn't know Fugaku basically no one even knows he has the MS.
Konoha has a file on it with a drawing of the design. They definitely know about it
Fugaku being considered viable for that role should make him at least low kage, and the MS we see in Boruto is identical to the one we see for Fugaku in the Naruto anime, so it’s likely that it’s his. Also, Konoha has a file on it with a drawing of the design, so Danzo would definitely know about it
@@sageofthickcalves How are we sure that file was Fugaku’s though? Did it say his name or was it just a reference? Because again the file could just be an anime reference and we don’t know how old the file is so it could be around the time of the massacre.
@@sageofthickcalves 1. When was he considered viable outside the Uchihas thinking he was
2. Even if we say he did know about the mangekyo which is highly debatable he wouldn’t know how strong it is or his abilities
Nagato/ Pain is underrated
On the list 🫡
@ I don’t share my email on here
@ what do you need to send to me?
@@sageofthickcalves you too good for emails ain’t it 💀
@ nah I just don’t want my email floating around out there. I already get way too many as it is 💀
Underrated is an absolute insane take
@@Stew4102 🤨
bro debunk what he said rn instead of saying things with no explanation or statement to back them up.the thing is they guy is right and u cant accpet that cuz u r an itachi fan who is sad that kakashi cut off tentails arm faster than minato could realize and itachi died
@@NateKh-i6t what the fuck are you on about lmao
22:47, i feel like you’re heavily down playing nagato and itachi, base sharingan itachi was able to match KCM naruto in taijutsu, so he should be pretty comparable to kakashi w/o kamui, and with his susanoo/Ms be comparable to kamui kakashi
@@sergperez5484 what gets Itachi’s Susano’o to KCM2 Naruto?
@ the potentially sage level amp MS would give itachi to be above KCM Naruto
his relativity to early EMS sasuke who with almost no fights(or at least unquantifiable stronger than his fight with kabuto) was able to perform comparably if not better than a “KCM 1.5” Naruto who should be relative to an early KCM2 Naruto, or at least not too much weaker than a masters KCM 2 Naruto
I could be high balling a bit, but it’s not too hard to argue for it
@ early EMS Sasuke is stated equal to Edo Itachi and that Sasuke is relative to or slightly below KCM1.5 Naruto
@@sageofthickcalves I personally see early EMS sasuke as a little above KCM 1.5 since he did save him against juubito a couple of times and able to balance his chakra with him when combining attacks, and KCM 1.5 is arguably comparable to early KCM 2
@ well he’s definitely not capable of being scaled to KCM2, and Kakashi’s Kamui scales above KCM2
In my opinion Kakashi aside from Naruto and Sasuke (not considering the Boruto people) he is the strongest alive. This may be wrong, I'm not saying he is, but I see him in that range
Now where's Kushina is underated
Question sage doesn’t kakashi learn to teleport in and out of the kamui dimension in the war arc or am i misremembering something I remember him teleporting out of the dimension twice and I think I remember him teleporting him and obito into the dimension maybe im wrong I haven’t watched or read the war arc in awhile
@@Robbieuchiha yeah he learned to teleport right before he fought Obito. It’s around 629
Kinda crazy how dms kakashi unironically stomps juubi madara 🔥
his immortality poses a problem tho. so kakashi low diffs two eye.
@@derekseago9647 Here's the thing though Madara has zero way to escape Kamui so Kakashi could just send him there and that would be a victory.
@@SRVaris thats a good argument actually. do you think jubimadarras reaction time is higher than naruto who fought against kaguya?
@@derekseago9647 I think if it is its unquantifiable as Naruto had been growing stronger throughout the Kaguya fight.
@@SRVaris so same level? if so then your right kamui does perception blitz him. seeing as it also perception blitzed the naruto who fought against kaguya
early shippuden kakashi scales to tenchi bridge sasuke lmaooooooooooooo
Who lied to you?
@@sageofthickcalves ditto
@@AbegazNap I explained the scaling in the vid. What part did you disagree with specifically?
9:29 what source is this please?
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13:13 It’s just Yamato hasn’t really seen Sasuke go all out and Kakashi is I feel not as smart Shikaku overall anyways. Sasuke overall has way higher scaling in terms of speed that I feel Yamato would not know about and the curse mark of Sasuke is implied higher than most curse mark 2 which Kakashi should not know about.
To be fair, Yamato is stated to be in the top of the ANBU, so I think his reports are trustworthy. As far as the curse mark, CM2 doesn’t give a physical amp to Sasuke, so I’m not sure it would really matter.
@ It maybe trustworthy as far as holding back Sasuke but not all out Sasuke. Also Curse mark 2 does give you at least 10 times your chakra considering the heaven seal is considered more special than the other curse seals. Not to mention Sasuke is inarguably way stronger as he broke Naruto’s arm with a wing hit despite being 1 tails I highly doubt Sasuke could do that in base hell base chidori might not be as strong as that wing hit
11:18 Maybe it’s weird because he doesn’t have any knowledge on curse mark 2 at least useful knowledge to help deduce Sasuke’s strength not to mention Sasuke barely used the sharingan and was barely trying against team 7 so maybe he can deduce something but I don’t think he could be accurate