In a way, I think Corrie is actually doing her own "life coaching" practice a disservice. She's advocating for a type of relative morality which says "do whatever is best for you." Great, so if that's what you're going to tell me, then why should I listen to you if there is no firm right or wrong in my situation? She also said that she doesn't claim to know what is best for other people, but she does know what's best for herself. But if she's figured it out for herself, wouldn't she want the people who listen to her to adopt her ideas on how she lives? If not, why is she in the practice of telling other people what they should do? It seems like she's in the mindset of "if I can do it, there is no reason why I shouldn't do it. Else, why would I be able to do it?
This is such a blatant example of self-worship that’s been created on a fluffy foundation of life coach platitudes. Glad to see Jacob push on this because any amount of pushback exposes the lack of depth. It just doesn’t hold up under logical thought and reasoning.
The messaging I got as a YW about modesty was not the source of making me feel shame about my body. My shame came from places like TEEN Magazine or from my friends who had dancer/athlete bodies. Modesty messaging in the church reminded me that it wasn’t about bodies and showing them off. I was grateful for that. Grateful for the permission, so to speak, to dress not for the attention on my body, but to dress for respect of my body and others.
It’s more about dressing how YOU want and not be shamed for it. Could you dress how you wanted in church without fear of backlash of any kind? That was not my experience in church. Just presenting another view. All the best.
@@Bigbluedome It's not shame people feel when they dress immodestly. It's guilt and it's important because it's what God uses to lead us to repent and change.
@@Bigbluedome I simply cannot relate to desiring a dress standard contrary to what my covenants require. I don’t know why this is not a temptation for me but I understand that it is for some. I’m curious the reason why women desire so strongly to dress with less, other than for the attention on their body. Genuinely, that’s a conversation I’d like to have.
@@Bigbluedome Also, I think you’ve missed my point entirely in my original comment. Women are blaming the church and modesty for the shame they feel. I’m certain that women also feel shame when they can see around them what other women look like and feel pressure to look like them. The church is not the source of the shame. The source is the world. The source is other women, believing themselves to be liberated, who dress contrary to the Lord’s standard. Women who declare “we are not objects” but dress as objects.
"I'm not endorsing hedonism." Precedes to endorse hedonism. There are those out there who know that certain philosophies are damaging or not look at well. So, they change the word, but the underlying definition is still there. Also, this philosophy CAN ONLY EXIST because of birth control. If we ever lose that, this philosophy will die a very painful death.
So I usually don’t stop listening to comment but something really annoyed me. Jacob asks a totally legit question of would you be alright in having your daughter participate in X relationship and the guest totally uses the whole “ Im not bringing my children into the conversation” card. That was totally avoiding the question. So irritating.
Not all life coaches follow that thought. A lot are pretty good at differentiating false beliefs and conclusions based on assumptions. Many stay close to God and faith in his truth. You just need to discern who you are following and what path they are heading on. I'm just sad because I knew her. She was in my ward years ago. And I followed her a bit. But I saw anger and resentment setting in awhile ago. Trauma can create questions. The problem comes when we stop asking God for his opinion on the information we're given. When logic starts to override the spirit, and bitterness and resentment start looking like self empowerment, we delude ourselves into certainty. @@GODISMYSTERIOUS
"The church didn't say the words but I went to church and somehow the idea ended up in my brain so the church must have taught it." Had that happen to me about a topic, fortunately I read through the scriptures and conference talks and ended up wondering how on Earth I ever thought the church taught what I thought it did. I couldn't ever even point to it being taught to me at the local level, it was just my conception of things. The church isn't the only one putting ideas into our mind.
It's almost as if there is some kind of adversary trying to influence us. Weird, right? I'm sure I've had the same thing happen where I was for SURE thinking that something was doctrine, but when I went looking for it, it wasn't there. It was probably something from Mormon Doctrine by McConkie. HAHA. That book got a little cooky at times.
So often I hear someone say “growing up I always was taught that repentance was a punishment, but now I realize that it is a beautiful thing!” From my experience, the only times I have heard someone in the church connecting “repentance” as a “punishment” is when someone makes a statement that is is not, or that that is what they use to think. Where is this idea coming from? Even when I look us old talks or teachings I don’t see it as a punishment. There is punishment for sin (and punishments accepted in the old endowment), but that is not what repentance is.
Jacob: What are your sexual norms? Woman: Don’t have any. Jacob: So you believe in sexual hedonism? Woman: No because that word sounds bad. Jacob: So how are you different from hedonism. Woman: Well it is a bit hedonistic yes.
Having a hard time watching this for the following reasons: 1. right right right right right right right right right right right right.... 2. Corrie mocking Jacob multiple times when he's trying to give a detailed answer to be very clear by saying, "you're saying a lot of words Jacob..." and in relation to that... 3. Her inability to actually give any answer AT ALL. Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge. How can you be a life coach if you have absolutely nothing to say at all except "do what you want". Great, glad I paid you all that money for absolutely no help at all. STAND FOR SOMETHING!
So sad to see people like this lady who has so clearly lost her way. She has abandoned the truths she once had and admits she is in a void. I hope she finds her way back.
An hour an eleven minutes in and it’s finally clear what she believes-“you can do whatever the hell you want.” There is no good or bad. Just what you want.
@@carlislefindlay1834 that’s exactly part of the plan. The other part of the plan is consequences. Remember when you pick up the stick, you pick up both ends.
@carlislefindlay1834 no agency isn't doing whatever you want. David Bednar had some fiery words for that thought. If you look up the word agency in the legal definition, you can get some new insights into that.
Uncertain if this is sarcasm or sincerity. I’m responding as if it’s sincerity. You almost have the lyrics right. Just one slight correction. The lyrics are “do what IS right”
@@Aunntie Yes, that is what he is pointing out lol. You're all good. He saying that it's dumb to just do what "feels" right and we instead must do what actually IS right.
You should definitely do more videos like this having real conversations from two differing points of view. Well done. I appreciate how respectful both sides were.
I liked when she called him out for "his privilege" for not knowing what its like having sex outside of marriage in trying to relate to someone who has. He turns around and says do you use your "privilege" with working with people who have committed adultery which she said her divorce did not include adultery. She all the sudden says I use my opinion. She went from using privilege on him to mean he has no voice to all the sudden saying with privilege you can have an opinion.
Ya.. And She really doesn't want a world where we are sexually free.. being the weaker sex.. women will eventually pay the price.. after 60 years of women suffrage, her principles put women right back into the deficit. so everything she says, and to your point, is that she has to navigate that dilemma where she can fulfill her selfish desires while simultaneously trying to maintain control over a brute beast. Total hypocrisy.. it clearly benefits all of society , and especially women, when we all live by principles outside of our most base nature.
People in the church sometimes ask “Why doesn’t the church talk to its opponents? Why don’t the brethren try to respond to attacks more firmly and directly?” This. This is why. Oh my gosh what a waste of time trying to make sense of nonsense. Thanks for taking one for the team, bro.
She doesn't want to be labeled a Hedonist even though it's what she is promoting. She's a moral relativist. She's not interested in God's morality or even data driven standards.
Perhaps her god is a hedonist. 😐 Perhaps god created hedonistic ppl since they are promoting it. Nature is kinda nasty. All animals, birds, fish, etc and even insects like to do the nasty and are force to based on thier libido or sex drive or in order to reproduce thier own kind.
Back in my day, Bible teaching as well as my mom’s constant advice every night at the dining table, I knew discipline. Sex before marriage was a western cultural thing and it was not normal in Chinese culture in my era. Now immoral cultural behaviour is a normal, global thing to many people no matter they are Europeans, Chinese, Japanese or any other ethnic groups. The world is corrupted.
Thanks to both parties for participating! I love articulate and civil conversations about deep topics and this hit the spot for me. Jacob, you are so flippin good at articulating everything I feel in every one of your videos. You put into words exactly how I feel but would never be able to articulate myself. I think every church member should binge the heck out of your videos. So logical and consistent in defending truth while remaining Christ like.
While I'm glad you took this opportunity to visit with this woman...I found it hard to get through. It's just so painfully short sighted and shallow the path she's on and the path that she coaches from. Sure... sexuality is a tough topic...and there are probably ways that it has been taught in the church that aren't always helpful. The problem I have is that the way she characterized those teachings were always with the caveats "not in these words exactly"...which is just another way of saying that the church didn't teach what she learned or thought the church taught. Unfortunately I heard some of her same "facts" from my oldest daughter who has abandoned the faith as well. Her guiding principles are unmoored and while she lives like she could be back in church...she doesn't want to be. I want accountability for what you learned not what you were taught. If you learned the wrong lesson then maybe you weren't really listening.
1. Her philosophy is such a regurgitation of destructive mores of the sexual revolution, and she doesn’t even know what she advocating for. 2. It’s not as if the two parent household is completely unattainable broadly, until recent decades it was much more common. 3. Divorce is such a destructive event for all persons involved, and it’s so evident here with her.
“What, now that I’m divorced, I’m just supposed to stop having sex?” Yes. 100%. That is exactly what you are supposed to do. Until you find someone else to get married to.
Exactly, the Law of Chastity is clear no matter what age you're at. Have sexual relations only with those you're legally and lawfully wedded to. Not hard to understand.
17:35 - And there it is. I was wondering if she was going to bring some kind of a new viewpoint, but it's just plain old "woke" ideology. This is Woke 101. "I'm on the right track because I was born like this (Lady Gaga). I'm not broken. I don't need a savior because I don't need saving. I am my own authority. Live your truth." And so on, and so on. The writer of Ecclesiastes was right. "There is nothing new under the sun." Anyways, my initial reaction. Haven't watched the rest yet. Just paused it and commented. Maybe it gets better?
She was broken from trauma and heart break and instead of building herself from the ground up with God's help, she rebuilt God from the ground up in her own image.
Jacob: "Is there anything wrong with cheating on my wife?" "Absolutely not!" Jacob: "But it is not just about me, it will affect a lot of other people." "Right! Right!" This woman is just lost.
My wife and I listened to this in the car and I wish we had a camera rolling to capture the number of times our jaws dropped as as we listened to this woman speak.
What a bunch of self absorbed deconstructionists dribble. Nothing she claimed to know/understand made any logical sense unless viewed through a self centered lens. I feel bad for her kids any anyone with whom she fools into coaching.😢 time will tell and I hope she knows it’s never too late to comeback. Korihor(ita)
It’s so funny for me as someone who’s never been a Mormon to listen to women who have left the church. They all talk the way I did when I was about 17. It’s like these adult humans are so stunted in their growth & then they take a course & become a life coach. To be clear cause i know what I said could sound harsh, it’s just the reality & that doesn’t mean she’s a bad person or that she can’t help some people. I also do have great empathy for her in regards to the situation she ended up in with her kids & financial issues etc & I do wish her the best.
Yeah I’m pretty young(college age) and she seems to have the same level of maturity as a college aged girl. They even talk the same. I feel no malice to her or course I think she’s just a lost daughter of God that’s been through some hard stuff. It’s an easy trap to fall into in this world.
Cardon likes to compare you to Matt Walsh for your flannels. He should be comparing you to him for your ability not to go crazy talking to people with worldviews like this.
The fact that she doesn't believe in "should" (good/more ideal) and "should not" and can't distinguish between them is sad. "This is so privileged" is her Turette's response to being wrong and unwilling to admit there is wrong.
Aw, Jacob almost made me cry in this video when he empathized with her on spiritual abuse... I feel like this Melchizedek thing is happening where he has become me, and him in me, lol. This has been such a great video. I'm still only halfway through.
A comment for Corey: I think a better way to think about the second sealing is that that for the sealing with second spouse, the new process is our previous spouses as asked for COMMENT, rather than PERMISSION. . The church wants to be sure that all marital, divorce, and child support obligations are satisfied before a Saint allowed to take on a new spouse. Snd to ensure that the new spouse did not spring from an adulterous relationship. This protects both men and women.it also provides for order and transparency in church congregations so a sociopath doesn’t churn through dozens of husbands or wives without proper accountability. The sealing, and all, covenants us serious business.
Thank you for letting her speak and dig her own grave. I do feel very sorry for this woman and hope she can come to find some philosophical consistency, but her ideas are just atrocious.
Jacob, I gotta compliment you on how you managed this interview. You did a much better job than in the past with being sympathetic and understanding of someone else’s perspective and didn’t behave judgmentally or condescendingly. You were easier to listen to in this episode.
Praying for all of us to be able to overcome the pain and rationalizations we use to cope with the trauma that we’ve experienced. 🙏🏼Hopefully this sister realizes she’s mourning the failure of her marriage. All of this is related to divorce. She’s trying to make sense of her new reality as a single person. Husbands / Wives, love your spouse and avoid the pain and suffering that comes from divorce.
No way! Feel so bad for this lady. She is completely lost. She is also very confused. I don’t think she knows what she believes. I don’t know how someone who was raised a member can just start believing all of this. So dumb. So if I feel like it’s okay to kill someone then there is nothing wrong with that? Are you kidding me? You don’t know what is best for you. You just do what you want.
I think the question wasn't whether or not it's OK to kill someone, but whether or not someone can rationalize it is OK to kill someone. Someone could make a case for, Hitler, for example.
I've read all of the comments (that I totally agree with) and listened to the video. All I have to say is wow! When she said privilege, wow, that sounds familiar. I wish her the best.
As for the family ideals.. my parent’s marriage suffered for 15+ years and they stuck it out to raise me and my siblings if it meant that we’d have both parents present and at least trying to make it work in their marriage for the time being. Grateful for them in doing that
I think you're right. It can then be justified by "In this life I can do no wrong. I'm perfectly human and creating my own reality." Whatever that means. As she says in this discussion.
Listened to the first 20 seconds. "I do what I like to do and introspect." This is gonna be a gem. And a train wreck. Lots of my truth and I feel, is my guess.
Because of sex abuse (1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10-20 boys), rapes, STD's, AIDS, divorces due to adultery, sexual harassment, sex addiction, abortions, and pregnancies out of a committed pair; it seems appropriate to have some sexual discipline. Especially when you realize that single parent homes create most of the poverty, crime, drug usage, violence, under education, mental and emotional problems, and underage pregnancies. Not to mention emotional hurt due to rejection. "Bridle your passions so that you may be filled with love". Alma. Humans have emotional, physical, and mental needs that require a committed relationship. So who is your God? Sex, money, power, fame, material goods, or food? Without God there is no right and wrong or eternal consequences. Modesty goes 2 ways. If it is wrong to wear immodest clothing, it should also be wrong to look at immodest clothing. Eternal marriage is only promised to those who make and keep eternal e renal commitments. Which includes caring for your spouses emotional, educational, spiritual, and physical. Needs.
What Elder Oaks said in April 2005 general conference, “And young women, please understand that if you dress immodestly, you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you.”
He's identifying that girls and women who walk around with their body parts exposed are objectifying themselves. If that's their intention, fine, but they need to be willing to own that.
This is the wrong message for both men and women. Men, you can not control yourselves. you are all looking at pornography. Women you are all sluts under your clothes and you are to be scared of men. I could go on. I think the lds church tries to teach sexual morality but has missed the mark.
People always have issues with this idea, because they say that men should have enough discipline to not look. The problem with that thinking is that it is a direct contradiction to our baptismal covenants to bear one another's burdens that they may be light and to lift those around us. Why would we purposely choose to do anything to make it more difficult for others to keep the commandments? Whose work are we aiding when we intentionally do this? It's not Heavenly Father's.
Her ultimate truth is that nothing is untrue: and her ultimate good is that nothing is morally wrong (except maybe not being tolerant of any conceivable “lifestyle.”)
I also noticed how deftly she slides from not believing in Christ, to bearing testimony of her sister’s relationship with Christ “because” she slept around. A “testimony,” in any form, is always handy when you want to avoid clear thinking with us Mormons.
As I go through this podcast, in my opinion I feel the ideal sexual connection is anything consensual with both husband and wife that creates a spiritual, mental, physical, emotional, loving connection between them.
Some takeaways: Moral relativism on a personal level seems like a way to justify what you do and never make mistakes. Rather than repent and strive to become better, you look at why you do things and if it feels good, it wasn't wrong. Moral relativism on a larger scale, like society, doesn't work because we'd never be able to convict people. The system would be based on what's "true" for you and if it felt right when you did it. Based on what I wrote above, that would always be the case 😅 Moral objectivity with clear definitions seems to be the only way to bring chaos and destruction into order.
I'm very curious how other divorced people handle this discussion. Was breaking away from your first (or most intimate) partner a revelation in sexuality for you? Was it difficult not to want to jump right into another sexual relationship?
She is simultaneously claiming the privilege to coach and no authority to morality. That’s what happens when we are grounded and nothing but our own emotions. If everything is individualism (I, me, my) then we’re not living in a community. Selfishness does not a community make. I do hope conversations like this continue to shed a light on this type of a philosophy and help bring people to a place where they need to contend with bigger issues than their personal emotions.
Pretty clear that Corrie hasn’t fully thought out her moral philosophy just yet. I almost feel bad for some of the guests Jacob has on his channel because of how subtly he destroys their arguments.
1:03:42 at the start of the video she says that she’s a single mother of five. Obviously I don’t know the whole story, but something here isn’t adding up.
She suggests that being born to two parents who take care of and feed their children in the home is “privileged.” How many decades has it been since everyone in this country viewed that as “normal?”
The language shift is interesting. It went from people having less-than-ideal situations being labeled "disadvantaged", as a neutral description, to those who have any part of the ideal being labeled "privileged", as a negative. Like having something good is a bad thing.
@@FebbieG it's all Marxist garbage that's been around since the 1800s, just slightly morphed as time went on to apply to more and more parts of life. it's just Satan. "good is bad and bad is good" is no different than the modern woke ideas of this "life coach". I'm baffled that anyone pays her for advice given that all she seems capable of saying is "do what you want to do and it's fine"
I was divorced in 1990 and had to get permission from my wife to remarry in the temple. So you are not being honest in this discussion. Your whole thought process is pointing towards you. You don't think of the societal consequences of your world.
I feel sad for her. She is so empty and void of any truth. Truth brings peace of mind and body. She definitely lacks real peace that can only come from living the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Bruh, you made me pull out the last 3 hairs on my head. I couldn't tell if you were being nice or you aren't as philosophically savvy as I thought you were. This is all the is/ought problem in philosophy. She contradicted herself moment to moment and has no clue.
Her ethic is the secular view of sexuality-there is no right or wrong because there is no afterlife and there is no god. What’s right is what I think is right. So there is no right or wrong. It’s what you want. You have to come up with your own moral compass.
In other words, "Do what thou wilt," eh? No wonder she's left the church. When you find yourself agreeing with Aleister Crowley, you need to take a long, hard look at your morals... or lack therof.
Kudos to her for coming on. But oof. All she did was give license to people to have zero standards. I wonder why she even says that consent is required. I mean, if it’s all about you at the end of the day….
She’s a fancy way of priestcraft. I feel so sad when I hear her speak. I feel so unenlightened when I hear her. I feel like it’s a waste of time trying to figure out her life views. I feel so sad that she has fallen so far from God and that she no longer believes in the Savior.
I think most people who stumble off the covenant path do so becuase they are ultimatly hurt and than blame christ or his church to seek that validation for the hurt they expirence and so they attack certain doctrines and beliefs. When she first started speaking I was wondering what must have happened to her to cause her to leave the path and as soon as she mentioned that she was upset that in order to live the law of chasity she couldnt have sex anymore becuase she was no longer married. That was it. Instead of turning to Christ for that healing and comfort and to have faith in him that he understood her sexual needs and that all will be made right in the end, she chose her pleasure of herself to find that comfort which will never be fufilling to the point as she wants it to be. Honestly my heart breaks for her and for her kids.
She really is getting tripped up on "should" and "should not". I don't know if she understands that, or if she is purposefully ignoring it. Like, if I'm going to build a car, I *SHOULD* use round wheels. Now, can I make a car with square wheels or triangular wheels. Sure! Of course I can! But, *SHOULD* I? Well no, not if I want it to be the best functioning car it can be. That's what Jacob is saying and I don't know if she doesn't get it, or if she is purposely avoiding it.
Any divorced woman or man wanting to remarry in the temple must get a letter from their previous spouse. My girlfriend had to send a letter and she was not kind. Her previous husband was still able to be sealed to his second wife. My elderly girl friend had to get a letter from her previous husband to be sealed to her 2nd husband by proxy after many, many years. This is the policy not that men control women. I believe it is respectful to the previous spouse and could instigate conversations between the general church leaders and the Bishop or Stake President about an individual’s worthiness.
I feel sorry for this sister. Korihor is alive in her. From what I understand from this conversation is that any sexual behavior is okay. I can understand better why her marriage failed.
@dr33776 Just commenting about how her current belief system contrasts from her previous belief system. I should probably not have made a comment about why she divorced her husband. That portion was speculative.
@@dr33776 my comment back to you said nothing about which is better. I used the word contrast to differentiate her current and prior belief systems. But there is a lot of supporting data to show that intact families and traditional familial relationships have more positive outcomes than those relationships that are less committed.
I never once had the impression that my body was for my husband growing up in the church. Perhaps I got lucky that church culture wasn't horrid where I lived...I was taught that my body is MINE. Sacred and beautiful. And to marry a man who will see the value and beauty of my body. Not because it is his but because it is MINE. A body that God created to house my spirit. I 1000% guarantee that most of those men women casually sleep with are not viewing your body as sacred but something to take and use. I was sexually abused when i was 16 by a boy who is not a member, who was taught sex is normal at that age....there is a God given reason to keep sex sacred and to teach teens the beauty of waiting. That experience as a young girl is what made me hate my body. Not anything the church said. When I was sexually abused I never got a choice. I suffered from the consequences of his actions...not mine. When you teach people to own their sexuality and to go by their own moral compass, that leads to people abusing that power. (Im a woman using my husband's account in case thats not obvious)
On the fifth Sunday of every month, in my Ward, the Bishop gets to choose a topic for both men and women together. A Sister had a husband who had an issue with pornography. The subject was on the misuse of porn, given by the Sister. One of the Senior guys, who's had every Calling, said, " as long as men have testocerone, they will most likely look at pornography." There is a difference between teacjhing or promoting healthy sex between people and the difference of sex being about lust or used for devious means. There is a difference.
Jacob, I do so appreciate your faith and faithfulness, I’m linked with you. And I feel bad for Corrie, I feel like she is so introspective and self centred she will be much like the onion scenario, ever peeling the layers away, and in the end, finding nothing. I feel like she will be back home in the church with Jesus Christ again ❤
I got that same impression from her. Listen to the Come Back Podcast and this is the way they all think in the beginning after leaving the church. I also appreciate Jacob's faithfulness and ability to have these types of conversations. It takes a lot of skill.
Not sure i agree with Jacob the church views or ever talk that masturbating is on the same level as swearing. Also we don't view women's body as belonging to or for the pleasure of men anymore than mens body belong to women for the use and pleasure of them (provide for them work be a workhorse, a protector that gives his body for his wife). She acts like it's a double standard without mentioning what is expected or messaged about men. Our body is for women, just typically not in the sexual sense. Men you're for women's providing. Get her things, pay her bills, create/buy her house, die for her and her kids
My takeaway from this is to avoid life coaches like the plague.
Guessing by the women I've seen turn themselves into "life coaches" they probably do have a plague at this point.
I am inclined to agree with you. It is truly sad to watch someone lose their connection with God and view themselves as the authority.
😂😂😂
Haha no duh right? Self help and life coaches are worthless morons
In a way, I think Corrie is actually doing her own "life coaching" practice a disservice. She's advocating for a type of relative morality which says "do whatever is best for you." Great, so if that's what you're going to tell me, then why should I listen to you if there is no firm right or wrong in my situation?
She also said that she doesn't claim to know what is best for other people, but she does know what's best for herself. But if she's figured it out for herself, wouldn't she want the people who listen to her to adopt her ideas on how she lives? If not, why is she in the practice of telling other people what they should do?
It seems like she's in the mindset of "if I can do it, there is no reason why I shouldn't do it. Else, why would I be able to do it?
This is such a blatant example of self-worship that’s been created on a fluffy foundation of life coach platitudes. Glad to see Jacob push on this because any amount of pushback exposes the lack of depth. It just doesn’t hold up under logical thought and reasoning.
Yes, great comment.
The messaging I got as a YW about modesty was not the source of making me feel shame about my body.
My shame came from places like TEEN Magazine or from my friends who had dancer/athlete bodies. Modesty messaging in the church reminded me that it wasn’t about bodies and showing them off. I was grateful for that. Grateful for the permission, so to speak, to dress not for the attention on my body, but to dress for respect of my body and others.
Beautifully said! Thank you! 🌟
It’s more about dressing how YOU want and not be shamed for it. Could you dress how you wanted in church without fear of backlash of any kind? That was not my experience in church. Just presenting another view. All the best.
@@Bigbluedome It's not shame people feel when they dress immodestly. It's guilt and it's important because it's what God uses to lead us to repent and change.
@@Bigbluedome I simply cannot relate to desiring a dress standard contrary to what my covenants require. I don’t know why this is not a temptation for me but I understand that it is for some. I’m curious the reason why women desire so strongly to dress with less, other than for the attention on their body. Genuinely, that’s a conversation I’d like to have.
@@Bigbluedome Also, I think you’ve missed my point entirely in my original comment. Women are blaming the church and modesty for the shame they feel. I’m certain that women also feel shame when they can see around them what other women look like and feel pressure to look like them. The church is not the source of the shame. The source is the world. The source is other women, believing themselves to be liberated, who dress contrary to the Lord’s standard. Women who declare “we are not objects” but dress as objects.
"I'm not endorsing hedonism." Precedes to endorse hedonism.
There are those out there who know that certain philosophies are damaging or not look at well. So, they change the word, but the underlying definition is still there.
Also, this philosophy CAN ONLY EXIST because of birth control. If we ever lose that, this philosophy will die a very painful death.
I’d like to point out that Jacob is also a hedonist. View is moral philosophy videos if you don’t believe me..
@latterdayskeptic Tell me you're a low order, click bait, thinker without telling me you're a low order, click bait, thinker.
So I usually don’t stop listening to comment but something really annoyed me. Jacob asks a totally legit question of would you be alright in having your daughter participate in X relationship and the guest totally uses the whole “ Im not bringing my children into the conversation” card. That was totally avoiding the question. So irritating.
That is why I don’t trust the so called life coach’s advice. My Bible is my ultimate life coach. Lord Jesus is my advisor.
And Jacob agreed with that. Boundaries may not be something you’re familiar with but they are a healthy thing to consider and set.
@@Allthoseopposed They can also be detrimental and dismissive to a serious conversation which is trying to get to the bottom of things.
Not all life coaches follow that thought. A lot are pretty good at differentiating false beliefs and conclusions based on assumptions. Many stay close to God and faith in his truth. You just need to discern who you are following and what path they are heading on.
I'm just sad because I knew her. She was in my ward years ago. And I followed her a bit. But I saw anger and resentment setting in awhile ago.
Trauma can create questions. The problem comes when we stop asking God for his opinion on the information we're given. When logic starts to override the spirit, and bitterness and resentment start looking like self empowerment, we delude ourselves into certainty. @@GODISMYSTERIOUS
Exactly. Would these who say sex misuse is fun, allow their own family members to partake in it...
"The church didn't say the words but I went to church and somehow the idea ended up in my brain so the church must have taught it."
Had that happen to me about a topic, fortunately I read through the scriptures and conference talks and ended up wondering how on Earth I ever thought the church taught what I thought it did. I couldn't ever even point to it being taught to me at the local level, it was just my conception of things.
The church isn't the only one putting ideas into our mind.
It's almost as if there is some kind of adversary trying to influence us. Weird, right? I'm sure I've had the same thing happen where I was for SURE thinking that something was doctrine, but when I went looking for it, it wasn't there. It was probably something from Mormon Doctrine by McConkie. HAHA. That book got a little cooky at times.
a good point
So often I hear someone say “growing up I always was taught that repentance was a punishment, but now I realize that it is a beautiful thing!” From my experience, the only times I have heard someone in the church connecting “repentance” as a “punishment” is when someone makes a statement that is is not, or that that is what they use to think. Where is this idea coming from? Even when I look us old talks or teachings I don’t see it as a punishment. There is punishment for sin (and punishments accepted in the old endowment), but that is not what repentance is.
Jacob: What are your sexual norms?
Woman: Don’t have any.
Jacob: So you believe in sexual hedonism?
Woman: No because that word sounds bad.
Jacob: So how are you different from hedonism.
Woman: Well it is a bit hedonistic yes.
Couldn't even bother to remember her name?
Having a hard time watching this for the following reasons:
1. right right right right right right right right right right right right....
2. Corrie mocking Jacob multiple times when he's trying to give a detailed answer to be very clear by saying, "you're saying a lot of words Jacob..." and in relation to that...
3. Her inability to actually give any answer AT ALL. Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge. How can you be a life coach if you have absolutely nothing to say at all except "do what you want". Great, glad I paid you all that money for absolutely no help at all. STAND FOR SOMETHING!
I thought I read somewhere that she was going to be Kamala Harris's press secretary if Kamala got elected 🤣.
@@michaelnicholas5587 if giving non-answers was what Kamala was seeking then she would be a good fit! lol
to be clear, respect to her going on the channel and having the conversation. I just think a lot of her ideology was exposed as being a nothing burger
So sad to see people like this lady who has so clearly lost her way. She has abandoned the truths she once had and admits she is in a void. I hope she finds her way back.
An hour an eleven minutes in and it’s finally clear what she believes-“you can do whatever the hell you want.” There is no good or bad. Just what you want.
What’s wrong with that? Isn’t that exactly the plan of agency?
@@carlislefindlay1834 that’s exactly part of the plan. The other part of the plan is consequences. Remember when you pick up the stick, you pick up both ends.
The Psalmist wrote:
*"..let not any iniquity have dominion over me."*
_-119:133._
@carlislefindlay1834 no agency isn't doing whatever you want. David Bednar had some fiery words for that thought. If you look up the word agency in the legal definition, you can get some new insights into that.
That's almost verbatim one of the antichrists in the BoM
There is no greater misuse of privilege than to tell those who don't have it, not to do the things that will give them privilege.
Oh!!!! Nailed it! Tikla - this is genius. Thank you for this comment!! Love it.
How can I give this a thousand likes?!
How does that Hymn go? "Do what feels right 🎶 let the consequence follow🎶..."
Uncertain if this is sarcasm or sincerity. I’m responding as if it’s sincerity.
You almost have the lyrics right. Just one slight correction. The lyrics are “do what IS right”
Hahaha! 😂
@@Aunntie Yes, that is what he is pointing out lol. You're all good. He saying that it's dumb to just do what "feels" right and we instead must do what actually IS right.
Thanks Jacob for pushing on this house of cards. It so easily reveals itself as hollow and weak
While listening, I am reminded that Eternal Love can only exist if there is a foundation of Eternal Law.
Okay
Makes sense
She’s the living embodiment of the meme “women can rationalize everything”
She seemed embarrassed for Jacob to read her own words back to her.
Took the words right out of my mouth
You should definitely do more videos like this having real conversations from two differing points of view. Well done. I appreciate how respectful both sides were.
I liked when she called him out for "his privilege" for not knowing what its like having sex outside of marriage in trying to relate to someone who has. He turns around and says do you use your "privilege" with working with people who have committed adultery which she said her divorce did not include adultery. She all the sudden says I use my opinion. She went from using privilege on him to mean he has no voice to all the sudden saying with privilege you can have an opinion.
Ya..
And She really doesn't want a world where we are sexually free.. being the weaker sex.. women will eventually pay the price.. after 60 years of women suffrage, her principles put women right back into the deficit. so everything she says, and to your point, is that she has to navigate that dilemma where she can fulfill her selfish desires while simultaneously trying to maintain control over a brute beast. Total hypocrisy..
it clearly benefits all of society , and especially women, when we all live by principles outside of our most base nature.
People in the church sometimes ask “Why doesn’t the church talk to its opponents? Why don’t the brethren try to respond to attacks more firmly and directly?”
This. This is why. Oh my gosh what a waste of time trying to make sense of nonsense.
Thanks for taking one for the team, bro.
I think the fact that she wasn’t willing to answer the question about what she’d want for her daughters was very telling.
She's so condescending. "Do you know much about how the brain works, Jacob?" "Do you know what a top down system is?" And a bunch of platitudes 🤦♂️
She doesn't want to be labeled a Hedonist even though it's what she is promoting. She's a moral relativist. She's not interested in God's morality or even data driven standards.
Fair assesment.
Perhaps her god is a hedonist. 😐 Perhaps god created hedonistic ppl since they are promoting it. Nature is kinda nasty. All animals, birds, fish, etc and even insects like to do the nasty and are force to based on thier libido or sex drive or in order to reproduce thier own kind.
Scam artist: I don't give people adive
Later : literally gave a client advice to display her body.
Exactly….
Back in my day, Bible teaching as well as my mom’s constant advice every night at the dining table, I knew discipline. Sex before marriage was a western cultural thing and it was not normal in Chinese culture in my era. Now immoral cultural behaviour is a normal, global thing to many people no matter they are Europeans, Chinese, Japanese or any other ethnic groups. The world is corrupted.
Thanks to both parties for participating! I love articulate and civil conversations about deep topics and this hit the spot for me. Jacob, you are so flippin good at articulating everything I feel in every one of your videos. You put into words exactly how I feel but would never be able to articulate myself. I think every church member should binge the heck out of your videos. So logical and consistent in defending truth while remaining Christ like.
This comment articulates the way I feel but could never describe to a tea
While I'm glad you took this opportunity to visit with this woman...I found it hard to get through. It's just so painfully short sighted and shallow the path she's on and the path that she coaches from. Sure... sexuality is a tough topic...and there are probably ways that it has been taught in the church that aren't always helpful. The problem I have is that the way she characterized those teachings were always with the caveats "not in these words exactly"...which is just another way of saying that the church didn't teach what she learned or thought the church taught. Unfortunately I heard some of her same "facts" from my oldest daughter who has abandoned the faith as well. Her guiding principles are unmoored and while she lives like she could be back in church...she doesn't want to be. I want accountability for what you learned not what you were taught. If you learned the wrong lesson then maybe you weren't really listening.
I LOVE that Jacob is always “just asking questions” 😂😂😂😂 Doubt your doubts, baby!
1. Her philosophy is such a regurgitation of destructive mores of the sexual revolution, and she doesn’t even know what she advocating for.
2. It’s not as if the two parent household is completely unattainable broadly, until recent decades it was much more common.
3. Divorce is such a destructive event for all persons involved, and it’s so evident here with her.
“What, now that I’m divorced, I’m just supposed to stop having sex?”
Yes. 100%. That is exactly what you are supposed to do. Until you find someone else to get married to.
I nearly spat my drink out when I heard that 🤦🏻♂️
@@ItsSnagret 😂 And I love how she actually "unsaid" that she wouldn't advise the same for her daughters! 🤣
Exactly, the Law of Chastity is clear no matter what age you're at. Have sexual relations only with those you're legally and lawfully wedded to. Not hard to understand.
17:35 - And there it is. I was wondering if she was going to bring some kind of a new viewpoint, but it's just plain old "woke" ideology. This is Woke 101. "I'm on the right track because I was born like this (Lady Gaga). I'm not broken. I don't need a savior because I don't need saving. I am my own authority. Live your truth." And so on, and so on. The writer of Ecclesiastes was right. "There is nothing new under the sun."
Anyways, my initial reaction. Haven't watched the rest yet. Just paused it and commented. Maybe it gets better?
It doesn't get better.
@@eddshoell7065 - Nope. It didn't. It just got worse and worse. Oof.
@@harmonillustration you nailed it. Got painfully worse.
She was broken from trauma and heart break and instead of building herself from the ground up with God's help, she rebuilt God from the ground up in her own image.
@@dward7781 are you assuming trauma and heart break? She didn't elaborate other than saying that neither of them cheated.
@g71816 You didn't listen closely enough.
Jacob: "Is there anything wrong with cheating on my wife?"
"Absolutely not!"
Jacob: "But it is not just about me, it will affect a lot of other people."
"Right! Right!"
This woman is just lost.
My wife and I listened to this in the car and I wish we had a camera rolling to capture the number of times our jaws dropped as as we listened to this woman speak.
What a bunch of self absorbed deconstructionists dribble. Nothing she claimed to know/understand made any logical sense unless viewed through a self centered lens. I feel bad for her kids any anyone with whom she fools into coaching.😢 time will tell and I hope she knows it’s never too late to comeback. Korihor(ita)
I really enjoyed this conversation. Jacob, you shine when you communicate in this way. 🙏🏼
It’s so funny for me as someone who’s never been a Mormon to listen to women who have left the church. They all talk the way I did when I was about 17. It’s like these adult humans are so stunted in their growth & then they take a course & become a life coach. To be clear cause i know what I said could sound harsh, it’s just the reality & that doesn’t mean she’s a bad person or that she can’t help some people. I also do have great empathy for her in regards to the situation she ended up in with her kids & financial issues etc & I do wish her the best.
Yeah I’m pretty young(college age) and she seems to have the same level of maturity as a college aged girl. They even talk the same. I feel no malice to her or course I think she’s just a lost daughter of God that’s been through some hard stuff. It’s an easy trap to fall into in this world.
It’s so clear to me that her worldview is not coherent.
Why does she and others have to lie about what elder oaks has said about womens modesty.
It's a lack of character, morals, or intelligence.
What did he actually say then?
Cardon likes to compare you to Matt Walsh for your flannels. He should be comparing you to him for your ability not to go crazy talking to people with worldviews like this.
Me, me, me! Let me guess, she was not "happy" which lead to her divorce?
Modern women are doomed😐
If they are doomed then men...nevermind.
She said she was abused. Let's not discount that. Abuse sucks and I totally support divorce in that.
@logankearl8115 not believing that claim.
The fact that she doesn't believe in "should" (good/more ideal) and "should not" and can't distinguish between them is sad. "This is so privileged" is her Turette's response to being wrong and unwilling to admit there is wrong.
Aw, Jacob almost made me cry in this video when he empathized with her on spiritual abuse...
I feel like this Melchizedek thing is happening where he has become me, and him in me, lol.
This has been such a great video.
I'm still only halfway through.
She now subscribes to moral relativism and hedonism. That’s her prerogative but she should come out and claim it.
I'm giving up halfway through. Sorry Jacob I want to give you this view til the end for the stats, but this woman is too much. See ya next time.
A comment for Corey: I think a better way to think about the second sealing is that that for the sealing with second spouse, the new process is our previous spouses as asked for COMMENT, rather than PERMISSION. . The church wants to be sure that all marital, divorce, and child support obligations are satisfied before a Saint allowed to take on a new spouse. Snd to ensure that the new spouse did not spring from an adulterous relationship. This protects both men and women.it also provides for order and transparency in church congregations so a sociopath doesn’t churn through dozens of husbands or wives without proper accountability. The sealing, and all, covenants us serious business.
I am both surprised and not surprised that Corrie Woods fails to recognize the circular reasoning she employs on multiple levels.
She’s definitely talking about hedonism.🤦🏼♀️
Thank you for letting her speak and dig her own grave.
I do feel very sorry for this woman and hope she can come to find some philosophical consistency, but her ideas are just atrocious.
Jacob, I gotta compliment you on how you managed this interview. You did a much better job than in the past with being sympathetic and understanding of someone else’s perspective and didn’t behave judgmentally or condescendingly. You were easier to listen to in this episode.
Praying for all of us to be able to overcome the pain and rationalizations we use to cope with the trauma that we’ve experienced. 🙏🏼Hopefully this sister realizes she’s mourning the failure of her marriage. All of this is related to divorce. She’s trying to make sense of her new reality as a single person. Husbands / Wives, love your spouse and avoid the pain and suffering that comes from divorce.
No way! Feel so bad for this lady. She is completely lost. She is also very confused. I don’t think she knows what she believes. I don’t know how someone who was raised a member can just start believing all of this. So dumb. So if I feel like it’s okay to kill someone then there is nothing wrong with that? Are you kidding me? You don’t know what is best for you. You just do what you want.
I think the question wasn't whether or not it's OK to kill someone, but whether or not someone can rationalize it is OK to kill someone. Someone could make a case for, Hitler, for example.
I've read all of the comments (that I totally agree with) and listened to the video. All I have to say is wow! When she said privilege, wow, that sounds familiar. I wish her the best.
As for the family ideals.. my parent’s marriage suffered for 15+ years and they stuck it out to raise me and my siblings if it meant that we’d have both parents present and at least trying to make it work in their marriage for the time being. Grateful for them in doing that
I heard, "as a woman" and said nope.
It has been my observation that poor choices that are not repented of, can lead to where she is. I could be wrong.
I think you're right. It can then be justified by "In this life I can do no wrong. I'm perfectly human and creating my own reality." Whatever that means. As she says in this discussion.
Yeah, or the poor choice of husband, or to stay in it so long..
Listened to the first 20 seconds. "I do what I like to do and introspect." This is gonna be a gem. And a train wreck. Lots of my truth and I feel, is my guess.
Because of sex abuse (1 in 5 girls and 1 in 10-20 boys), rapes, STD's, AIDS, divorces due to adultery, sexual harassment, sex addiction, abortions, and pregnancies out of a committed pair; it seems appropriate to have some sexual discipline. Especially when you realize that single parent homes create most of the poverty, crime, drug usage, violence, under education, mental and emotional problems, and underage pregnancies. Not to mention emotional hurt due to rejection. "Bridle your passions so that you may be filled with love". Alma. Humans have emotional, physical, and mental needs that require a committed relationship. So who is your God? Sex, money, power, fame, material goods, or food? Without God there is no right and wrong or eternal consequences. Modesty goes 2 ways. If it is wrong to wear immodest clothing, it should also be wrong to look at immodest clothing. Eternal marriage is only promised to those who make and keep eternal e renal commitments. Which includes caring for your spouses emotional, educational, spiritual, and physical. Needs.
A real life Korihor. Amazing.
What Elder Oaks said in April 2005 general conference, “And young women, please understand that if you dress immodestly, you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you.”
Great quote, and he is absolutely right!
He's identifying that girls and women who walk around with their body parts exposed are objectifying themselves. If that's their intention, fine, but they need to be willing to own that.
This is the wrong message for both men and women. Men, you can not control yourselves. you are all looking at pornography. Women you are all sluts under your clothes and you are to be scared of men. I could go on. I think the lds church tries to teach sexual morality but has missed the mark.
@@fightingfortruth9806 Agreed. Causing vs influencing are two different things.
People always have issues with this idea, because they say that men should have enough discipline to not look. The problem with that thinking is that it is a direct contradiction to our baptismal covenants to bear one another's burdens that they may be light and to lift those around us. Why would we purposely choose to do anything to make it more difficult for others to keep the commandments? Whose work are we aiding when we intentionally do this? It's not Heavenly Father's.
Her ultimate truth is that nothing is untrue: and her ultimate good is that nothing is morally wrong (except maybe not being tolerant of any conceivable “lifestyle.”)
I also noticed how deftly she slides from not believing in Christ, to bearing testimony of her sister’s relationship with Christ “because” she slept around. A “testimony,” in any form, is always handy when you want to avoid clear thinking with us Mormons.
As I go through this podcast, in my opinion I feel the ideal sexual connection is anything consensual with both husband and wife that creates a spiritual, mental, physical, emotional, loving connection between them.
Anything?
Anything
As long as both partners are comfortable and it’s not degrading.
Some takeaways:
Moral relativism on a personal level seems like a way to justify what you do and never make mistakes. Rather than repent and strive to become better, you look at why you do things and if it feels good, it wasn't wrong.
Moral relativism on a larger scale, like society, doesn't work because we'd never be able to convict people. The system would be based on what's "true" for you and if it felt right when you did it. Based on what I wrote above, that would always be the case 😅
Moral objectivity with clear definitions seems to be the only way to bring chaos and destruction into order.
Life coaching is the worship of the self.
Thanks for sharing your insights Corrie and Jacob. Great discussion.
1:02:55 she already said that she would tell someone to cheat on their spouse a few minutes ago. Is there consistency?
She also said she told someone to wear a two piece swimming suit, after she said she doesn't give advice.
Interesting that she looks miserable and dark. He looks happy and full of light 😊
1:25:50 This woman is not safe for society.
Interesting discussion! Def outside the usual box. Good job!
I normally hate watch your videos, Jacob, but I enjoyed this one, and you seem earnist and empathetic in it.
I'm very curious how other divorced people handle this discussion. Was breaking away from your first (or most intimate) partner a revelation in sexuality for you? Was it difficult not to want to jump right into another sexual relationship?
It must be rebound sex - relationship warped by unresolved issues.
Being your own God will not end well.
She is simultaneously claiming the privilege to coach and no authority to morality. That’s what happens when we are grounded and nothing but our own emotions. If everything is individualism (I, me, my) then we’re not living in a community. Selfishness does not a community make. I do hope conversations like this continue to shed a light on this type of a philosophy and help bring people to a place where they need to contend with bigger issues than their personal emotions.
Anyone who uses the word "privileged" to try to invalidate someone elses position is an immediate turn off.
Pretty clear that Corrie hasn’t fully thought out her moral philosophy just yet. I almost feel bad for some of the guests Jacob has on his channel because of how subtly he destroys their arguments.
Hat off to Jacob, I’m less than 10 minutes in and I don’t think I can go the distance on this one.
You ABSOLUTELY CAN speak to another person’s experience! And it is NOT privilege to do so.
It is literally the foundation of social science 🤦🏻♂️
It is an excellent conversation and provides many insights into our lives. Thanks for making this useful video.
1:03:42 at the start of the video she says that she’s a single mother of five. Obviously I don’t know the whole story, but something here isn’t adding up.
Wait until you find out the race of her husband, and it will.
Later she says that her husband lives out of state and she is the full time parent.
@Spenwall meaning the black father has 0 parental rights. After 4 kids, that's very sus.
She suggests that being born to two parents who take care of and feed their children in the home is “privileged.” How many decades has it been since everyone in this country viewed that as “normal?”
The language shift is interesting. It went from people having less-than-ideal situations being labeled "disadvantaged", as a neutral description, to those who have any part of the ideal being labeled "privileged", as a negative. Like having something good is a bad thing.
@@FebbieG it's all Marxist garbage that's been around since the 1800s, just slightly morphed as time went on to apply to more and more parts of life. it's just Satan. "good is bad and bad is good" is no different than the modern woke ideas of this "life coach". I'm baffled that anyone pays her for advice given that all she seems capable of saying is "do what you want to do and it's fine"
I was divorced in 1990 and had to get permission from my wife to remarry in the temple. So you are not being honest in this discussion. Your whole thought process is pointing towards you. You don't think of the societal consequences of your world.
I feel sad for her. She is so empty and void of any truth. Truth brings peace of mind and body. She definitely lacks real peace that can only come from living the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Bruh, you made me pull out the last 3 hairs on my head. I couldn't tell if you were being nice or you aren't as philosophically savvy as I thought you were. This is all the is/ought problem in philosophy. She contradicted herself moment to moment and has no clue.
He’s letting her speak. She’s destroying her own credibility.
Exactly. And instead of taking the bait he let her sink her own ship. This was an excellent conversation
Jacob was as calm as a cucumber so she could delegitimize herself
Her ethic is the secular view of sexuality-there is no right or wrong because there is no afterlife and there is no god. What’s right is what I think is right. So there is no right or wrong. It’s what you want. You have to come up with your own moral compass.
In other words, "Do what thou wilt," eh? No wonder she's left the church. When you find yourself agreeing with Aleister Crowley, you need to take a long, hard look at your morals... or lack therof.
Kudos to her for coming on. But oof. All she did was give license to people to have zero standards. I wonder why she even says that consent is required. I mean, if it’s all about you at the end of the day….
TLDR I’m mad at my ex so now I’m justified to sleep around…
Her quote" the reality is people can do whatever the hell they want." The reality is choices have consequences.
She’s a fancy way of priestcraft. I feel so sad when I hear her speak. I feel so unenlightened when I hear her. I feel like it’s a waste of time trying to figure out her life views. I feel so sad that she has fallen so far from God and that she no longer believes in the Savior.
I think most people who stumble off the covenant path do so becuase they are ultimatly hurt and than blame christ or his church to seek that validation for the hurt they expirence and so they attack certain doctrines and beliefs. When she first started speaking I was wondering what must have happened to her to cause her to leave the path and as soon as she mentioned that she was upset that in order to live the law of chasity she couldnt have sex anymore becuase she was no longer married. That was it. Instead of turning to Christ for that healing and comfort and to have faith in him that he understood her sexual needs and that all will be made right in the end, she chose her pleasure of herself to find that comfort which will never be fufilling to the point as she wants it to be. Honestly my heart breaks for her and for her kids.
Yes, me too. She is equating her "true self" to mere hormones.
She really is getting tripped up on "should" and "should not". I don't know if she understands that, or if she is purposefully ignoring it. Like, if I'm going to build a car, I *SHOULD* use round wheels. Now, can I make a car with square wheels or triangular wheels. Sure! Of course I can! But, *SHOULD* I? Well no, not if I want it to be the best functioning car it can be. That's what Jacob is saying and I don't know if she doesn't get it, or if she is purposely avoiding it.
Any divorced woman or man wanting to remarry in the temple must get a letter from their previous spouse. My girlfriend had to send a letter and she was not kind. Her previous husband was still able to be sealed to his second wife. My elderly girl friend had to get a letter from her previous husband to be sealed to her 2nd husband by proxy after many, many years. This is the policy not that men control women. I believe it is respectful to the previous spouse and could instigate conversations between the general church leaders and the Bishop or Stake President about an individual’s worthiness.
I feel sorry for this sister. Korihor is alive in her. From what I understand from this conversation is that any sexual behavior is okay. I can understand better why her marriage failed.
Cheez talk about judgmental Mormons, careful with which stick you measure others.
@dr33776 Just commenting about how her current belief system contrasts from her previous belief system. I should probably not have made a comment about why she divorced her husband. That portion was speculative.
@@glcsprince what makes your belief system superior than hers?
@@dr33776 my comment back to you said nothing about which is better. I used the word contrast to differentiate her current and prior belief systems. But there is a lot of supporting data to show that intact families and traditional familial relationships have more positive outcomes than those relationships that are less committed.
@ so you don’t know if she was cheated on or abused but you’re out here casting stones about her life.
I never once had the impression that my body was for my husband growing up in the church. Perhaps I got lucky that church culture wasn't horrid where I lived...I was taught that my body is MINE. Sacred and beautiful. And to marry a man who will see the value and beauty of my body. Not because it is his but because it is MINE. A body that God created to house my spirit. I 1000% guarantee that most of those men women casually sleep with are not viewing your body as sacred but something to take and use.
I was sexually abused when i was 16 by a boy who is not a member, who was taught sex is normal at that age....there is a God given reason to keep sex sacred and to teach teens the beauty of waiting. That experience as a young girl is what made me hate my body. Not anything the church said. When I was sexually abused I never got a choice. I suffered from the consequences of his actions...not mine. When you teach people to own their sexuality and to go by their own moral compass, that leads to people abusing that power. (Im a woman using my husband's account in case thats not obvious)
Life coaching with Corrie, sounds awfully familiar to how people incorrectly understand the separation between Church and State.
Jordan Peterson's new book, "we who wrestle with God" chapter 2.2, is a good insertion to this conversation.
This was an excellent conversation!
On the fifth Sunday of every month, in my Ward, the Bishop gets to choose a topic for both men and women together. A Sister had a husband who had an issue with pornography. The subject was on the misuse of porn, given by the Sister. One of the Senior guys, who's had every Calling, said, " as long as men have testocerone, they will most likely look at pornography." There is a difference between teacjhing or promoting healthy sex between people and the difference of sex being about lust or used for devious means. There is a difference.
Jacob, I do so appreciate your faith and faithfulness, I’m linked with you. And I feel bad for Corrie, I feel like she is so introspective and self centred she will be much like the onion scenario, ever peeling the layers away, and in the end, finding nothing. I feel like she will be back home in the church with Jesus Christ again ❤
I got that same impression from her. Listen to the Come Back Podcast and this is the way they all think in the beginning after leaving the church. I also appreciate Jacob's faithfulness and ability to have these types of conversations. It takes a lot of skill.
Not sure i agree with Jacob the church views or ever talk that masturbating is on the same level as swearing. Also we don't view women's body as belonging to or for the pleasure of men anymore than mens body belong to women for the use and pleasure of them (provide for them work be a workhorse, a protector that gives his body for his wife). She acts like it's a double standard without mentioning what is expected or messaged about men. Our body is for women, just typically not in the sexual sense. Men you're for women's providing. Get her things, pay her bills, create/buy her house, die for her and her kids
Yes, she doesn't understand that there is more happiness in living outside of oneself, for others.
She found Nosticism 🙄
This comment section has helped me understand why people leave the church.
Its absolutely vile.