@@timbonjovi One day at a time. Get whatever help feels right to you; be honest with yourself. I’ve been there and I promise, you are worth the effort; there can be something better. Naval history and some music that hit home helped me a lot so I feel you there too
Same here with my health. Currently have a herniated disk that is causing nerve pain down my left leg. Wishing everyone the best in their recovery. Much thanks for these well researched and educational videos.
The earliest I’ve ever been…only took sitting in my cube with the cc on during lunch. I’ve been appreciating your channel for over a year and just wanted to say it’s nice to see you and Important (Naval) History grow! You both deserve it.
It's truly astounding the level of punishment Musashi took before sinking, 19 torpedoes and 17 bomb hits. The amount of focus she took during Leyte basically ensured most of the rest of Center Force largely escaped any serious damage from the air attacks on the way to the target.
The US navy learned from that action. Don't bother bombing, and don't torpedo each side. The Yamato went down much more quickly when they just kept torpedoing ONE side so she just capsized, and much less time. That being said, they were truly massive and majestic ships. I love the oriental style. They just didn't come any prettier. Too bad they never really fulfilled any real function, especially the Musashi.
Many of those torpedo impacts were encountered after her fate was already sealed. Her actual fatal damage was caused by far less. The first torpedo hit alone listed her more than 5 degrees requiring massive counter flooding.
@@brianw612 investigation of the half-sister Shinano's wreck disclosed a design flaw in the joint between the underwater armor belt and torpedo blisters common to the class. The ship just wasn't ready.
@@greenflagracing7067 Shinano’s wreck was never even found, so where did you get the idea her wreck was investigated? The defective joint part is real, but the Yamatos took significant levels of damage to sink even with that flaw. This design flaw was also found from design analysis based on the limited surviving documentation on the class, NOT from any kind of wreck analysis.
I've read elsewhere (not sure where) that the ordinary Japanese servicemen referred to the super-battleships and their entourage of smaller ships as the "Hashirajima fleet", as they seemed to spend all of their time in that anchorage, where they looked powerful, carried great prestige, and did nothing.
The Yamatos actually spent more time at Truk than at Hashirajima, and weren’t prestigious (due to the level of secrecy around them). They were derided within the IJN by various officers and servicemen, but that occurred at Truk, not at the main anchorage at Hashirajima.
I own Akira Yoshimura's book on her, titled Build The Musashi, and alludes to this fact, after both Yamamoto, and Koga died, while being the flagship for both, the crew thought she was spooked. Take care, and all the best.
I own a copy of “Build the Musashi!” as well. An excellent book. Unfortunately for all Battleships by June 1942 it was obvious the Aircraft Carrier was now supreme, not Battleships.
I read somewhere that the US Navy changed tactics after the engagement with Musashi, apparently someone thought she'd have capsized and sank more quickly if all the torpedoes had impacted the same side. Kind of makes sense to me, any truth in it?
it is true, they actually did do that when they sank yamato, the focused the torpedoes on the port side and eventually they ran out of compartments to counterflood and she capsized, thats why she took significantly less torps than musashi
It’s kinda funny that either Mk14 were in effective or Musashi was extremely lucky ship able to avoid literally any Submarine put a scratch on her. Ofcorse until Yukikaze decided to suck all of her luck out dry.
I was surprised to find that Musashi had a narrower beam - 121ft 1in vs 127 ft 7 in on Yamato. I don't think any other class of ship changed the beam, unless it is one of the destroyer tweaks
Out of famous ship classes off the top of my head, the Olympic class saw Britannic get a revised beam - Olympic and Titanic were built with a 92 foot and someodd inches beam, whereas Britannic was completed with a 94 foot beam, accounting for revised expansion joints and larger holding bulkheads which were designed after the loss of Titanic. Not as dramatic as the difference between Yamato and Musashi, but it did happen at times even with very large ships.
If they survived the war, they would have been used for atomic bomb testing, like what the US did to most captured Japanese ships. They would want to know how the ship will react to the bombs. Like the Japanese submarines, they were just scuttled. The US mostly destroyed the captured Japanese vessels soon after they studied them, they don't want any future enemies like the Soviets to get any possible tech and designs from these vessels.
It's strange how these American submarines kept missing a target THAT large, and one that probably cruised no faster than most of Japan's aircraft carriers would.
@@barryguerrero6480 Submarines were slow, they had a hard time against aircraft carriers as well (yes, subs did sink carriers in WWII, but there were far more failed attempts to do so)
Ditto GeorgeBenta. Criminal how the war department refused to believe skipper reports on the faults until late 43 or 44. They wouldn’t run at set depth, maintain heading, or (a real b*ch), hit and. It explode because the firing pin collapsed without igniting the charge. Also, subs max speed submerged is below 10kn. This particular battleship, and many other “major” targets, had top speeds of mid 20’s to low 30’s, 2 or 3 times faster. Add in zig-zag, and fails can be as simple as not being able to get into a good firing position. Also, these targets are usually surrounded by smaller, faster and meaner (to subs) warships, which can make it difficult to,get close.
Surface vessels operate in two dimensions, on the surface of the sea. Airplanes and submarines operate in three dimensions. Surface vessels become targets.
If the Yamato and Musashi were built to the Shinano type, and the IJN had enough adequately-trained pilots with planes to load these carriers with... ...they still would have lost, but damn, there'd be a lot more USN aces! :v
idk, its an iteresting thought tbh, if they were well designed carriers they would have been much harder to sink at idk like the phillipine sea or something, as ive heard shinano was designed with a hanger that could be opened incase of a possible hangar explosion like those suffered at midway so there might be some merit behind this....
Good work. I understand that the wreck was discovered by a team helped by David Mearns in 2015 and found it mostly destroyed by a magazine explosion when she sank.
That's 600 shells per magazine (1460kg each) plus ANOTHER roughly 500-600kg (x 600!) of propellant one thin deck above. 2.6 million kg of shells plus another ~1 million kg for the powder.... that's a BIG boom.
Cool video on the Musashi! Out of all three Yamato class battleships completed, Musashi is my favorite, not only did she take the longest to sink during and after the Battle of the Subuyan Sea, but she also held up for an incredibly long time, demonstrating just how powerful and well armored the Yamato Class were.
i agree with the guy below, also yamato got to be the flagship at midway and also participated in the attack on kure, plus got the most poetic end in the world so ima stick with yamato. but musashi's deth was quite nice ill be honest
IMHO Musashi is less famous than Yamato because the latter was named for Japan itself ("Yamato" being an ancient name for Japan) and thus was seen as carrying the hope and luck of the nation.
Yamato wasn’t named after Japan, but after Yamato Province (which does have the same name as Japan itself due to that being where the first regime to control a unified Japan arose) The idea of Yamato being symbolic of Imperial Japan as a whole is complete postwar fabrication; the Yamatos were held in such secrecy that only the people who served aboard them and the top brass cared about them and many didn’t even know they existed until well after both of them had been sunk. You can thank SBY and postwar American misinformation for the Yamatos being misrepresented in media as propaganda pieces.
@@simonkevnorris No, that depends on the kanji used. In Yamato’s case (for the ship, the province she was named after, and the country named after the province) it doesn’t, because in that case the name comes from the kanji for Ya (= “Great”) and Mato (= “harmony”).
The(sisal) curtains built to obscure the construction of the _Yamato_ class caused a serious shortage of material for fishing nets. Their construction impacted Japan's food supply...they _really_ needed a short war.
I’ve seen this claim said in several places, but it’s often said to have been only a very short-term shortage rather than a chronic issue. Any primary sources?
@@bkjeong4302 Only from a friend whose grandparents grew up in Nara Prefecture (as did she). Fish became somewhat scarce and pricy for a few years before the war, and the vendors blamed a shortage of nets and ropes for cutting down the usual efficiency of their suppliers.
In your opinion, was Japan a much more formidable naval opponent than Germany? Why? If the IJN Yamashiro was replaced by the Yamato and Musashi, what would’ve been the outcome at Surigao Straight?
@@johnnash5118 Germany wasn't that big of a naval opponent, sure the U-boats were a problem for sometimes but the surface fleet was pretty weak and small. Japan on the other hand had just more of everything plus carriers which Germany didn't had at all.
Germany built a couple of pocket battleships and two full fledged battleships. No carriers (one was laid down but never completed). The brits did immediately hunt these down whenever and wherever they could and succeded later in war. In 1945 Germany had nothing left but some cruisers and smaller vessels. Of the pocket battleships, only one survived and was given to the U.S. and sunk in nuclear tests.
@@robertsolomielke5134 No, they would still have been useless because the fundamental problem for battleships was a lack of OFFENSIVE capability. Big guns are irrelevant when your enemy is attacking from a couple hundred miles away.
@@bkjeong4302 Yes, I agree to that. Carrier aircraft changed things forever for BB,s . I was just bemoaning how easy they were to butcher without effective light AA. A turkey shoot of heavy units by the US naval air.
Banzai! Thank you so much for covering one of my favorite ships in all of naval history! The Tragic sister of an equally tragic class, but one that took one of the most savage punishments in naval history before finally rolling over. While Yamato has more of a public name, Musashi always reminds me of the sister in the background, only occasionally being remembered with her name being used in various businesses, and products such as a Japanese kitchen knife company (of which I am a happy customer). I always tear up a bit when I think of her final battle. The rest of center force had to watch on as she was mercilessly pummeled from the air, and eventually was forced to make the bitter choice of leaving her to her fate. Musashi's captain also was determined to go down with her and reprimanded a young lieutenant for suggesting he stay with him onboard. Unlike her sister, and someone correct me on this if I'm wrong, but she never actually fired her main guns in anger against anything except air targets. A ship designed to be the Pax Ultima of an armored warship...never got the chance to show her metal against other surface targets. She also reminds me of the doomed Fuso sisters, in that all three of the Yamato class hulls suffered catastrophic losses of personal when they went under. I never realized she carried Yamamoto's ashes. I always thought that was done by her sister, so thank you for the new bit of info! I really like your photos of Musashi from the perspective of the planes attacking her. I have only seen a few of those, so I really appreciate you using some that I have never seen before. Thank you for another awesome vid! One thing for everyone, is there any news of the search for the wreck of Shinano? I haven't really heard much, but I was curious if anyone here has heard anything about that.
Pretty much ALL battleship classes of this time were tragic classes given that very few of them ever got to do their job and all of them were obsolete upon commissioning.
I will say this. She got a better end than Yamamoto. Sunk in a battle she was actively trying to win is much better than sacrificial lamb sent out a suicide mission to salve the butt hurt of higher ups who felt the emperor had bruised their pride when he questioned the Navy's commitment to the defense of Okinawa
@@skyneahistory2306 Same topic (WW2 navy) similar voices. If you wish to distinguish yourself then I guess show your face, though then you must dress well etc. Navyreviewer is also good! Nice video.
Mitscher: Alright, well that’s the only mission for today. So, uh what do you girls want to do. Intrepid: Can we have a piñata party? Halsey: Don’t see why not. (Musashi piñata drops down and TF 38 breaks out the baseball bats). TF 38: Yaay!
Too bad it( or the remainder of the 3rd fleet) didn't stick around, then waiting for the Center force to get back into range to continue pummeling it. After which detach the heavy surface element for an epic meeting at San Bernardino straight, thus eliminating the need for the Taffy's to enter this fray( of course they fought epically themselves). Halsey, being a carrier admiral, chose to go after the Northern force instead...,.
Musashi is personally my least favorite of the Yamatos. I find Shinano kind of hilarious because of all the blunders that could go wrong went wrong with her, and I unironically love Yamato for being the first, the most iconic, surviving longer, and being able to display an ink drop of her power curb stomping a few escort carriers and destroyers off Samar. Musashi did take a LOT of damage to sink, but other than that, there’s not much to her.
😂unlucky, in the sense of THE sister ship which rose to fame after being sunk @ 45, regardless, risen again in 74 which conquered all TV, ASIA/ EUROPE😮, & finally america
It would have been very interesting to see a BB vs BB fight including those monstrous battlewagons. They were designed to take on 3 US standard type BBs at once, I wonder if this would have worked out in real life.
Against the Iwoa class? Probably not that great for either IJN ship. In fact the Iwoa's had some advatanges, like with the main armor and speed, even if the main guns where less powerful.
@@gamerxt333 During daylight hours it would actually be a pretty even fight; yes the Iowas have a nice speed advantage, but in daylight optics can match radar for effective range (mostly because WWII FC radar isn’t as good as often assumed; see NavWeaps page for 16”/50 gun under the Accuracy in WWII section), so if they tried to use their speed advantage to remain out of the effective range of the Yamatos they would also be taking themselves out of the fight (because neither side would be able to land enough hits to sink the other before they run out of shells). If anything it’s far better for the Iowas to risk taking a bunch of hits and use their speed to try and close the range, since their guns are still powerful enough to seriously hurt or kill a Yamato (but the reverse also applies) and getting in close would increase the number of hits. As for armour, the Iowas are actually still at a disadvantage there, because the inferior steel quality of Japanese armour wasn’t by enough of a margin to offset the sheer amount of it, and because armor quality is far less relevant than layout anyways and the Yamatos had proper AoN layouts (contrast this with, say, Bismarck). At night the radar advantage of the Iowas would kick in and might actually allow them to pummel the Yamatos from a safe distance.
@@bkjeong4302Nah, Japanese optics were well equipped for long range night fighting, and the Yamatos had basic sets of fire control radar. Example at the battle of the Java Sea, at 16,000 yards without the use of floatplanes or starshells, with no radar and optics a fraction of Yamato’s size, the heavy cruisers Haguro and Nachi launched a torpedo attack that sank the light cruisers De Ruyter and Java respectively
@@bkjeong4302 the standards in their upgraded 1944 configuration might be too much, but against 3 standards in their prewar configuration Yamato might prevail. Do you have any knowledge about the prewar fire control on the standards? I'd assume Yamato could comfortably outrange them. Drachinifel has once said on stream that the German firecontrol equipment on the Bismarck and Scharnhorst classes was far superior to them, Yamato probably has a similar advantage. I'm also somewhat sceptical about Iowa's chances against Yamato. Yes, Iowa has some qualitative advantages but at the end of the day, you are comparing a 45000 ton BB (which has the armour scheme of a 35000 ton BB, although certainly a very well armoured one) to a 60000+ ton BB, and Yamato's armour scheme was pretty extensive in both coverage and thickness + her optics were pretty decent. This sounds like conparing the 28000 ton Strasbourg to the 38000 ton KGV, although Iowa has probably a bit more potential to hurt Yamato than Strasbourg has against KGV.
Yes, the only reason why she and Yamato contributed little is because the Japanese were afraid to risk them in battle, finally using them only when it was too late and the US had complete air superiority.
It’s not just a matter of being afraid to use them. The ships were resource hogs to an extreme. It’s for this reason they were in port most of the time. It took a *lot* of fuel to run those monsters. The Japanese made a tactical choice to not use them in the Solomons as a result. (Although, yes, part of it was being adverse to risking them)
@@skyneahistory2306 and in the end they went down with only one of them actually sinking another ship and only a couple at that. Not even sure that that can be said that the Yamato fired the fatal shots It is so telling that even though as November came both the IJA and IJN realized that Guadalcanal was the decisive battle and they still did not use all they had. Now Musashi was not yet active but imagine trying to sink the Yamato. Maybe with the Mutsu and Nagato with her. Real battleships rather than battle cruisers. Friday the 13th would have been a slaughter and Henderson Field a crater
@@skyneahistory2306 I recall from Richard Frank's book on Guadalcanal that fuel was in such short supply prior to the Battle of Santa Cruz that the moored YAMATO's bunkers were tapped to fuel ships that were in action at sea. She did have a lot of fuel capacity!
The problem with these battleships is that they became too much of an asset if you lose one you lose a whole lot of national pride as well as a lot of treasure invested And of course these could be destroyed by throwing waves of aircraft at them without having to risk getting a large warship within range of their primary armament The only reason why the Guadalcanal campaign devolved back to surface combat is because after Midway and the loss of the hornet the carrier fleets of both sides had been severely depleted Another threat to warships would be the submarine which were themselves relatively cheap and stealthy enough to get close enough to one of these behemoths to even if it doesn't send it to the bottom can put one of these battleships out of service 4 months on end To end this rant just like the iowa-class battleships the yamato-class battleships didn't cause a whole lot of trouble in their intended role and never got close enough to enemy Capital ships to fulfill their destiny so to speak
While most of your comment is accurate (and thanks for calling out the Iowas for having the same issues), the Yamatos were actually free of the issue of national pride because they WEREN’T sources of national pride for Japan (that’s a postwar fabrication). That role actually went to the Nagatos, and the Yamatos were held in secrecy even after their siblings to the point many people never found out they existed until postwar. No use in making a secret weapon if you then advertise it for propaganda.
@@ernestimken6969 Yamato was already capsizing by that point, her magazine detonation wasn’t why she sank (the actual reason is torpedo bomber strikes).
I’d say Yamashiro, simply for getting to shoot at another battleship in a situation where aircraft couldn’t do the job, which was rare even for Allied battleships.
Really, Musashi's bad luck was in being built at all. She and Yamato were born into a time when the battleship was becoming obsolete. And her basic concept was bad: she tied up much too much time, treasure, and effort in one hull that could too easily be dogpiled by the enemy, either by carrier-based planes or by surface ships.
The first part is completely accurate (but applies to every WWII-era battleship design), the second part is false. Japan simply lacked the infrastructure to build larger numbers of smaller capital ships, and the Yamatos were the RESULT of this deficit in numbers, not the cause. Japan couldn’t build more than 4 capital ships at a time for lack of infrastructure and they were already planning to build 2 new carriers, meaning you were only ever going to get another 2 new capital ships regardless of their size. This is also why Japan ended up going down the same path of quality over quantity with the Shokakus (the aforementioned 2 new carriers).
Even though it was wartime it’s bad to know it took years to build this ship and same for Yamato but how quickly it took to destroy these ships and how they are totally destroyed and how they lay on the ocean floor musashi is totally absolutely ablituated and Yamato is in two pieces all the work the Japanese took to build these ships for it to be sunk same with bismarck war is awful killing a lot of innocent people no need for it we live on this planet as one we don’t need to be at war with each other there is no reason for war just like the Russia /ukraine war what’s the point,
Love your content, I'm going through the worst time of my life right now and your videos kind of help with my depression and anxiety. Thank you
I feel you bro, yesterday I found my cat split in half in my garden and now I even got sick, not a good start of the week.
Same here. Please get mental help like I am right now
yo, good luck dude i pray for you
@@timbonjovi One day at a time. Get whatever help feels right to you; be honest with yourself. I’ve been there and I promise, you are worth the effort; there can be something better.
Naval history and some music that hit home helped me a lot so I feel you there too
Same here with my health. Currently have a herniated disk that is causing nerve pain down my left leg. Wishing everyone the best in their recovery. Much thanks for these well researched and educational videos.
The earliest I’ve ever been…only took sitting in my cube with the cc on during lunch. I’ve been appreciating your channel for over a year and just wanted to say it’s nice to see you and Important (Naval) History grow! You both deserve it.
Yamato got upgraded with the Wave Motion Gun in later years.
More than a century later in fact!
the picture at 17:03 is Yamato at Truk at least according to the Kure museum
It's truly astounding the level of punishment Musashi took before sinking, 19 torpedoes and 17 bomb hits. The amount of focus she took during Leyte basically ensured most of the rest of Center Force largely escaped any serious damage from the air attacks on the way to the target.
The US navy learned from that action. Don't bother bombing, and don't torpedo each side. The Yamato went down much more quickly when they just kept torpedoing ONE side so she just capsized, and much less time. That being said, they were truly massive and majestic ships. I love the oriental style. They just didn't come any prettier. Too bad they never really fulfilled any real function, especially the Musashi.
Many of those torpedo impacts were encountered after her fate was already sealed. Her actual fatal damage was caused by far less. The first torpedo hit alone listed her more than 5 degrees requiring massive counter flooding.
on the other hand, USS Arizona, one bomb; HMS Hood, one shell; IJN Hiei, destroyer-cruiser group.
@@brianw612 investigation of the half-sister Shinano's wreck disclosed a design flaw in the joint between the underwater armor belt and torpedo blisters common to the class. The ship just wasn't ready.
@@greenflagracing7067
Shinano’s wreck was never even found, so where did you get the idea her wreck was investigated?
The defective joint part is real, but the Yamatos took significant levels of damage to sink even with that flaw. This design flaw was also found from design analysis based on the limited surviving documentation on the class, NOT from any kind of wreck analysis.
I've read elsewhere (not sure where) that the ordinary Japanese servicemen referred to the super-battleships and their entourage of smaller ships as the "Hashirajima fleet", as they seemed to spend all of their time in that anchorage, where they looked powerful, carried great prestige, and did nothing.
The Yamatos actually spent more time at Truk than at Hashirajima, and weren’t prestigious (due to the level of secrecy around them). They were derided within the IJN by various officers and servicemen, but that occurred at Truk, not at the main anchorage at Hashirajima.
I own Akira Yoshimura's book on her, titled Build The Musashi, and alludes to this fact, after both Yamamoto, and Koga died, while being the flagship for both, the crew thought she was spooked.
Take care, and all the best.
I own a copy of “Build the Musashi!” as well. An excellent book. Unfortunately for all Battleships by June 1942 it was obvious the Aircraft Carrier was now supreme, not Battleships.
Poor Musashi, she doesn’t get to be a space battleship
Really great content. Just be you. It's working
13:51 hold up is this actually phillipine sea?
I read somewhere that the US Navy changed tactics after the engagement with Musashi, apparently someone thought she'd have capsized and sank more quickly if all the torpedoes had impacted the same side. Kind of makes sense to me, any truth in it?
it is true, they actually did do that when they sank yamato, the focused the torpedoes on the port side and eventually they ran out of compartments to counterflood and she capsized, thats why she took significantly less torps than musashi
Spitting fire
Great video! You forgot the link to the Musashi wreck video.
It’s kinda funny that either Mk14 were in effective or Musashi was extremely lucky ship able to avoid literally any Submarine put a scratch on her. Ofcorse until Yukikaze decided to suck all of her luck out dry.
can you make a video about ijn takao as well
What a amazing ship
NONE of these three ships even came close to justifying their original expense. The 'Beehive' rounds for the main guns were marginally effective.
@@bertha4304
Neither did any other battleship class of WWII (as in none of them even came close to justifying the expense), so what’s your point?
I was surprised to find that Musashi had a narrower beam - 121ft 1in vs 127 ft 7 in on Yamato. I don't think any other class of ship changed the beam, unless it is one of the destroyer tweaks
Out of famous ship classes off the top of my head, the Olympic class saw Britannic get a revised beam - Olympic and Titanic were built with a 92 foot and someodd inches beam, whereas Britannic was completed with a 94 foot beam, accounting for revised expansion joints and larger holding bulkheads which were designed after the loss of Titanic. Not as dramatic as the difference between Yamato and Musashi, but it did happen at times even with very large ships.
Mistake on Wikipedia
Would have been quite todays show if Musashi or Yamato had been captured and displayed as a museum .
If they survived they would have probably be se sented to Cross Road and if they weren't Japan would have scrap them for metal
@SeveralWeezelsInaTrenchcoat True, but we can dream
@@SeveralWeezelsInaTrenchcoat They'd have swapped her for Nevada.
There is no way an Axis Capital Ship was going to survive for long after World War II ended.
If they survived the war, they would have been used for atomic bomb testing, like what the US did to most captured Japanese ships. They would want to know how the ship will react to the bombs. Like the Japanese submarines, they were just scuttled. The US mostly destroyed the captured Japanese vessels soon after they studied them, they don't want any future enemies like the Soviets to get any possible tech and designs from these vessels.
Her life may have been quiet, but her wreck shows that her sinking more than made up for it...
It's strange how these American submarines kept missing a target THAT large, and one that probably cruised no faster than most of Japan's aircraft carriers would.
The early American Mark 14 torpedoes were faulty.
@@barryguerrero6480
Submarines were slow, they had a hard time against aircraft carriers as well (yes, subs did sink carriers in WWII, but there were far more failed attempts to do so)
Ditto GeorgeBenta. Criminal how the war department refused to believe skipper reports on the faults until late 43 or 44. They wouldn’t run at set depth, maintain heading, or (a real b*ch), hit and. It explode because the firing pin collapsed without igniting the charge. Also, subs max speed submerged is below 10kn. This particular battleship, and many other “major” targets, had top speeds of mid 20’s to low 30’s, 2 or 3 times faster. Add in zig-zag, and fails can be as simple as not being able to get into a good firing position. Also, these targets are usually surrounded by smaller, faster and meaner (to subs) warships, which can make it difficult to,get close.
Surface vessels operate in two dimensions, on the surface of the sea. Airplanes and submarines operate in three dimensions. Surface vessels become targets.
If the Yamato and Musashi were built to the Shinano type, and the IJN had enough adequately-trained pilots with planes to load these carriers with...
...they still would have lost, but damn, there'd be a lot more USN aces! :v
idk, its an iteresting thought tbh, if they were well designed carriers they would have been much harder to sink at idk like the phillipine sea or something, as ive heard shinano was designed with a hanger that could be opened incase of a possible hangar explosion like those suffered at midway so there might be some merit behind this....
Good work. I understand that the wreck was discovered by a team helped by David Mearns in 2015 and found it mostly destroyed by a magazine explosion when she sank.
That's 600 shells per magazine (1460kg each) plus ANOTHER roughly 500-600kg (x 600!) of propellant one thin deck above. 2.6 million kg of shells plus another ~1 million kg for the powder.... that's a BIG boom.
For the record, she was already submerged when she exploded so the explosion was not the cause of her sinking-it was the effect.
For 25mn AA guns read useless peashooters only on board for morale purposes.
Actually there were plans for 3 ships. But the 3rd was converted into the IJN Shinano....
shes still bassically a yamato in my heart :)
Cool video on the Musashi! Out of all three Yamato class battleships completed, Musashi is my favorite, not only did she take the longest to sink during and after the Battle of the Subuyan Sea, but she also held up for an incredibly long time, demonstrating just how powerful and well armored the Yamato Class were.
Yamato got to sink a few escort carriers and destroyers off Samar, which is why I like her significantly more
i agree with the guy below, also yamato got to be the flagship at midway and also participated in the attack on kure, plus got the most poetic end in the world so ima stick with yamato.
but musashi's deth was quite nice ill be honest
Yamato and Musashi were completed as battleships. The third hull was completed as the ill-fated carrier Shinano.
@@hadial-saadoon2114 shinano my beloved
@@metaknight115 it sank one CVE and one DD and was chased out of the battle by another DD.
the class was an underused failure.
The shortage of fuel is mostly to blame. The sinkng of Musashi and Yamato made clear, that battleships had become obsolete.
@@peterkoch3777 yes, but imagine the presence of Yamato at the Henderson Field bombardments with a more aggressive commander.
Every single WWII-era battleship class was a failure strategically.
@@bkjeong4302 don't say that too loud or the Bismarck crowd will come after you.
@@greenflagracing7067
More worried about the Iowa fanboys as they can’t accept those aren’t exempt either. Biggest, most expensive CLAAs ever built.
IMHO Musashi is less famous than Yamato because the latter was named for Japan itself ("Yamato" being an ancient name for Japan) and thus was seen as carrying the hope and luck of the nation.
Yamato wasn’t named after Japan, but after Yamato Province (which does have the same name as Japan itself due to that being where the first regime to control a unified Japan arose)
The idea of Yamato being symbolic of Imperial Japan as a whole is complete postwar fabrication; the Yamatos were held in such secrecy that only the people who served aboard them and the top brass cared about them and many didn’t even know they existed until well after both of them had been sunk. You can thank SBY and postwar American misinformation for the Yamatos being misrepresented in media as propaganda pieces.
Yama in Japanese is mountain.
@@simonkevnorris So "Yamato" would mean ... ?
@@simonkevnorris
No, that depends on the kanji used. In Yamato’s case (for the ship, the province she was named after, and the country named after the province) it doesn’t, because in that case the name comes from the kanji for Ya (= “Great”) and Mato (= “harmony”).
The(sisal) curtains built to obscure the construction of the _Yamato_ class caused a serious shortage of material for fishing nets. Their construction impacted Japan's food supply...they _really_ needed a short war.
I’ve seen this claim said in several places, but it’s often said to have been only a very short-term shortage rather than a chronic issue. Any primary sources?
@@bkjeong4302 Only from a friend whose grandparents grew up in Nara Prefecture (as did she). Fish became somewhat scarce and pricy for a few years before the war, and the vendors blamed a shortage of nets and ropes for cutting down the usual efficiency of their suppliers.
In your opinion, was Japan a much more formidable naval opponent than Germany? Why?
If the IJN Yamashiro was replaced by the Yamato and Musashi, what would’ve been the outcome at Surigao Straight?
@@johnnash5118 Germany wasn't that big of a naval opponent, sure the U-boats were a problem for sometimes but the surface fleet was pretty weak and small.
Japan on the other hand had just more of everything plus carriers which Germany didn't had at all.
Germany built a couple of pocket battleships and two full fledged battleships. No carriers (one was laid down but never completed). The brits did immediately hunt these down whenever and wherever they could and succeded later in war. In 1945 Germany had nothing left but some cruisers and smaller vessels. Of the pocket battleships, only one survived and was given to the U.S. and sunk in nuclear tests.
@@peterkoch3777 you're thinking of the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen, none of the three pocket battleships survived the war
@@SeveralWeezelsInaTrenchcoat yeah, Prinz Eugen. Okay, heavy cruiser... what's really the difference between pocket battleship and heavy cruiser...
@@peterkoch3777 pocket battleship isn't a real classification, they were all heavy cruisers, also Prinz Eugen had smaller guns
If only they had better light AA they may have had a chance. A fatal weakness for many IJN vessels, as we all know.
@@robertsolomielke5134
No, they would still have been useless because the fundamental problem for battleships was a lack of OFFENSIVE capability. Big guns are irrelevant when your enemy is attacking from a couple hundred miles away.
@@bkjeong4302 Yes, I agree to that. Carrier aircraft changed things forever for BB,s . I was just bemoaning how easy they were to butcher without effective light AA. A turkey shoot of heavy units by the US naval air.
Banzai! Thank you so much for covering one of my favorite ships in all of naval history! The Tragic sister of an equally tragic class, but one that took one of the most savage punishments in naval history before finally rolling over. While Yamato has more of a public name, Musashi always reminds me of the sister in the background, only occasionally being remembered with her name being used in various businesses, and products such as a Japanese kitchen knife company (of which I am a happy customer).
I always tear up a bit when I think of her final battle. The rest of center force had to watch on as she was mercilessly pummeled from the air, and eventually was forced to make the bitter choice of leaving her to her fate. Musashi's captain also was determined to go down with her and reprimanded a young lieutenant for suggesting he stay with him onboard. Unlike her sister, and someone correct me on this if I'm wrong, but she never actually fired her main guns in anger against anything except air targets. A ship designed to be the Pax Ultima of an armored warship...never got the chance to show her metal against other surface targets. She also reminds me of the doomed Fuso sisters, in that all three of the Yamato class hulls suffered catastrophic losses of personal when they went under.
I never realized she carried Yamamoto's ashes. I always thought that was done by her sister, so thank you for the new bit of info! I really like your photos of Musashi from the perspective of the planes attacking her. I have only seen a few of those, so I really appreciate you using some that I have never seen before. Thank you for another awesome vid!
One thing for everyone, is there any news of the search for the wreck of Shinano? I haven't really heard much, but I was curious if anyone here has heard anything about that.
KMS Bismarck .. Mushashi.. HOLD MY BEER...... just how many battleships DID YOU TAKE ON !!!!
Pretty much ALL battleship classes of this time were tragic classes given that very few of them ever got to do their job and all of them were obsolete upon commissioning.
Musashi was big transport ship
Thanks for the knowledge, Skynea. Take care, keep safe.
I will say this. She got a better end than Yamamoto. Sunk in a battle she was actively trying to win is much better than sacrificial lamb sent out a suicide mission to salve the butt hurt of higher ups who felt the emperor had bruised their pride when he questioned the Navy's commitment to the defense of Okinawa
You mean Yamato, cause Yamamoto was the Marshal Admiral of the Navy of Japan.
@@Hardcase_Kara You're right. But she got a better end than him too. LOL
bruh we needs a vid on yamato lol
There is English dub documentary of Musashi Sinking on youtube show sinking animation after last sight photo taken when Musashi Bow goes down.
There was a proposal to make the Musashi into a museum ship since it was thought she sank intact.
But then her wreck was discovered.......
さすがの造形美
詳しく調べていて驚いた。
A great little video what a wonderful vessel imagine a sea battle against the royal navy the British would be blasted out of the water.
foolish brits
I haven't seen Navy Reviewer post in a while. You sound a lot like him. May I ask? Are you the same person?
No. Honestly, I’m not sure how people keep mixing me up with other UA-camrs.
@@skyneahistory2306 Same topic (WW2 navy) similar voices. If you wish to distinguish yourself then I guess show your face, though then you must dress well etc. Navyreviewer is also good! Nice video.
He may have "a face made for radio".
Imagine the IJN realizing that all of these resources used yet, fails in its only real battle.
Mitscher: Alright, well that’s the only mission for today. So, uh what do you girls want to do.
Intrepid: Can we have a piñata party?
Halsey: Don’t see why not.
(Musashi piñata drops down and TF 38 breaks out the baseball bats).
TF 38: Yaay!
Too bad it( or the remainder of the 3rd fleet) didn't stick around, then waiting for the Center force to get back into range to continue pummeling it. After which detach the heavy surface element for an epic meeting at San Bernardino straight, thus eliminating the need for the Taffy's to enter this fray( of course they fought epically themselves). Halsey, being a carrier admiral, chose to go after the Northern force instead...,.
@@nicktynan1355
You’re assuming that Centre Force would be in any shape to fight after being attacked again with airstrikes.
Well done.
Musashi is personally my least favorite of the Yamatos. I find Shinano kind of hilarious because of all the blunders that could go wrong went wrong with her, and I unironically love Yamato for being the first, the most iconic, surviving longer, and being able to display an ink drop of her power curb stomping a few escort carriers and destroyers off Samar. Musashi did take a LOT of damage to sink, but other than that, there’s not much to her.
she sank 1 CVE with partial credit for one DD.
To be honest, it probably would have been better to replace the secondary super firing turrets with 127 dual purpose guns.
They should have improved the 25 mm guns and should have made them clip fed instead of magazine fed which limited thier fire rate
No, just not bother building the thing at all.
hahahahaha, a rich joke
In inches for American's, and Englishmen like me who voted for Brexit :)
😂unlucky, in the sense of THE sister ship which rose to fame after being sunk @ 45, regardless, risen again in 74 which conquered all TV, ASIA/ EUROPE😮, & finally america
Made by Mitsubishi.
It would have been very interesting to see a BB vs BB fight including those monstrous battlewagons. They were designed to take on 3 US standard type BBs at once, I wonder if this would have worked out in real life.
Against the Iwoa class? Probably not that great for either IJN ship. In fact the Iwoa's had some advatanges, like with the main armor and speed, even if the main guns where less powerful.
@@gamerxt333
During daylight hours it would actually be a pretty even fight; yes the Iowas have a nice speed advantage, but in daylight optics can match radar for effective range (mostly because WWII FC radar isn’t as good as often assumed; see NavWeaps page for 16”/50 gun under the Accuracy in WWII section), so if they tried to use their speed advantage to remain out of the effective range of the Yamatos they would also be taking themselves out of the fight (because neither side would be able to land enough hits to sink the other before they run out of shells). If anything it’s far better for the Iowas to risk taking a bunch of hits and use their speed to try and close the range, since their guns are still powerful enough to seriously hurt or kill a Yamato (but the reverse also applies) and getting in close would increase the number of hits. As for armour, the Iowas are actually still at a disadvantage there, because the inferior steel quality of Japanese armour wasn’t by enough of a margin to offset the sheer amount of it, and because armor quality is far less relevant than layout anyways and the Yamatos had proper AoN layouts (contrast this with, say, Bismarck).
At night the radar advantage of the Iowas would kick in and might actually allow them to pummel the Yamatos from a safe distance.
3 standards would probably be a bit too much, though you can expect at least one of the Standards to go down if it’s a daylight engagement.
@@bkjeong4302Nah, Japanese optics were well equipped for long range night fighting, and the Yamatos had basic sets of fire control radar.
Example at the battle of the Java Sea, at 16,000 yards without the use of floatplanes or starshells, with no radar and optics a fraction of Yamato’s size, the heavy cruisers Haguro and Nachi launched a torpedo attack that sank the light cruisers De Ruyter and Java respectively
@@bkjeong4302 the standards in their upgraded 1944 configuration might be too much, but against 3 standards in their prewar configuration Yamato might prevail. Do you have any knowledge about the prewar fire control on the standards? I'd assume Yamato could comfortably outrange them. Drachinifel has once said on stream that the German firecontrol equipment on the Bismarck and Scharnhorst classes was far superior to them, Yamato probably has a similar advantage.
I'm also somewhat sceptical about Iowa's chances against Yamato. Yes, Iowa has some qualitative advantages but at the end of the day, you are comparing a 45000 ton BB (which has the armour scheme of a 35000 ton BB, although certainly a very well armoured one) to a 60000+ ton BB, and Yamato's armour scheme was pretty extensive in both coverage and thickness + her optics were pretty decent. This sounds like conparing the 28000 ton Strasbourg to the 38000 ton KGV, although Iowa has probably a bit more potential to hurt Yamato than Strasbourg has against KGV.
They should have pushed her completion more; then used both of them in the Solomons Campaign. They actually might have accomplished something
Yes, the only reason why she and Yamato contributed little is because the Japanese were afraid to risk them in battle, finally using them only when it was too late and the US had complete air superiority.
It’s not just a matter of being afraid to use them. The ships were resource hogs to an extreme. It’s for this reason they were in port most of the time.
It took a *lot* of fuel to run those monsters. The Japanese made a tactical choice to not use them in the Solomons as a result.
(Although, yes, part of it was being adverse to risking them)
@@skyneahistory2306 and in the end they went down with only one of them actually sinking another ship and only a couple at that. Not even sure that that can be said that the Yamato fired the fatal shots
It is so telling that even though as November came both the IJA and IJN realized that Guadalcanal was the decisive battle and they still did not use all they had.
Now Musashi was not yet active but imagine trying to sink the Yamato. Maybe with the Mutsu and Nagato with her. Real battleships rather than battle cruisers. Friday the 13th would have been a slaughter and Henderson Field a crater
@@skyneahistory2306One Yamato class battleship burnt less fuel than two Kongo class battlecruisers. All four Kongos were used as carrier escorts.
@@skyneahistory2306 I recall from Richard Frank's book on Guadalcanal that fuel was in such short supply prior to the Battle of Santa Cruz that the moored YAMATO's bunkers were tapped to fuel ships that were in action at sea. She did have a lot of fuel capacity!
The problem with these battleships is that they became too much of an asset if you lose one you lose a whole lot of national pride as well as a lot of treasure invested
And of course these could be destroyed by throwing waves of aircraft at them without having to risk getting a large warship within range of their primary armament
The only reason why the Guadalcanal campaign devolved back to surface combat is because after Midway and the loss of the hornet the carrier fleets of both sides had been severely depleted
Another threat to warships would be the submarine which were themselves relatively cheap and stealthy enough to get close enough to one of these behemoths to even if it doesn't send it to the bottom can put one of these battleships out of service 4 months on end
To end this rant just like the iowa-class battleships the yamato-class battleships didn't cause a whole lot of trouble in their intended role and never got close enough to enemy Capital ships to fulfill their destiny so to speak
While most of your comment is accurate (and thanks for calling out the Iowas for having the same issues), the Yamatos were actually free of the issue of national pride because they WEREN’T sources of national pride for Japan (that’s a postwar fabrication). That role actually went to the Nagatos, and the Yamatos were held in secrecy even after their siblings to the point many people never found out they existed until postwar. No use in making a secret weapon if you then advertise it for propaganda.
The Japanese just don’t Think Right.
All Japanese battleships are unlucky
“Unlucky”
Which WWII-Gen battleship save Washington and DoY were lucky, again?
damn it sir, youve got me with that one
Battleships were also floating bombs. Musachi and Yamato carried 20,000 tons of ammo which blew Yamato to pieces.
@@ernestimken6969
Yamato was already capsizing by that point, her magazine detonation wasn’t why she sank (the actual reason is torpedo bomber strikes).
Ha Ha Ha What Japanese battleship was lucky ?
haruna
I’d say Yamashiro, simply for getting to shoot at another battleship in a situation where aircraft couldn’t do the job, which was rare even for Allied battleships.
@@bkjeong4302 she also got one tapped by west virginia but i digress, i do like yamashiro
hou bout haruna
@@firebassgames7744
WV did wreck her pretty horribly, but she at least even got to open fire.
Really, Musashi's bad luck was in being built at all. She and Yamato were born into a time when the battleship was becoming obsolete. And her basic concept was bad: she tied up much too much time, treasure, and effort in one hull that could too easily be dogpiled by the enemy, either by carrier-based planes or by surface ships.
The first part is completely accurate (but applies to every WWII-era battleship design), the second part is false. Japan simply lacked the infrastructure to build larger numbers of smaller capital ships, and the Yamatos were the RESULT of this deficit in numbers, not the cause. Japan couldn’t build more than 4 capital ships at a time for lack of infrastructure and they were already planning to build 2 new carriers, meaning you were only ever going to get another 2 new capital ships regardless of their size.
This is also why Japan ended up going down the same path of quality over quantity with the Shokakus (the aforementioned 2 new carriers).
yea, but also no
Even though it was wartime it’s bad to know it took years to build this ship and same for Yamato but how quickly it took to destroy these ships and how they are totally destroyed and how they lay on the ocean floor musashi is totally absolutely ablituated and Yamato is in two pieces all the work the Japanese took to build these ships for it to be sunk same with bismarck war is awful killing a lot of innocent people no need for it we live on this planet as one we don’t need to be at war with each other there is no reason for war just like the Russia /ukraine war what’s the point,